Slashdot Mirror


Nursing Homes Go High-Tech

mattlary writes "Here's an interesting article about a tracking system being installed in a retirement community. The system can track where residents are anywhere in the campus, and also uses cameras to keep an eye on residents. The community also contains numerous sensors so staff can track residents' activity."

152 comments

  1. big brother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    big brother is watching grand uncle.

    1. Re:big brother by SEWilco · · Score: 1

      By golly, Maude warned us the Grand Inquisitor would do a Black Bart on us.

  2. Cool... by Kjuib · · Score: 0

    Hit me in the head and send me to the nursing home with the cute nurses...

    --
    - Your stupidity got you into this mess, why can't it get you out? -Will Rogers
  3. We're all USA PATRIOTS here. by cliffy2000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So... how long until a government starts using this technology in a large-scale implementation?

    1. Re:We're all USA PATRIOTS here. by randyest · · Score: 1

      Oh no! The privacy is invaded, and the security is minimized! Flavin!

      --
      everything in moderation
    2. Re:We're all USA PATRIOTS here. by cpghost · · Score: 1

      What do you think cellphones are for?

      --
      cpghost at Cordula's Web.
  4. Can't wait until I get old... by nametaken · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Sensors on refrigerator doors that automatically notify staff when residents are up and active each day, replacing older methods such as "check-in" buttons or paper cards on doorknobs."

    I hope when I'm that old I'll still keep bizarre hours. It'll keep the staff on their toes.

    1. Re:Can't wait until I get old... by ReidMaynard · · Score: 1

      My parents are in one of these (a very nice one) but I think putting the sensor on the toilet is better than the fridge. After all a lot of these facilities have 3 meals a day in the cafeteria so ..

      In addition this could help monitor everyones bowel movements (!)

      --
      -- www.globaltics.net

      Political discussion for a new world

    2. Re:Can't wait until I get old... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, under the "new freedom" police state, you will be heavily sedated on legaldrugs after your first couple of offences, if you don't meet some 'unfotrunate' circumstance, such as an arranged fall down the death stairs.

    3. Re:Can't wait until I get old... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, most older folks have irregular sleep schedules. Also, they tend to rest more and sleep fewer hours a day. This is fairly well documented--as you get get older, your requirement to sleep and feel rested is fewer and fewer hours.

  5. In related news... by zaxios · · Score: 1

    http://slashdot.org/articles/04/07/08/156224.shtml ?tid=100&tid=137&tid=215

  6. Grandma loves the tag by facts · · Score: 3, Funny

    I wanna be the first boy on the block to have an RFID tagged granny!

    1. Re:Grandma loves the tag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
      I wanna be the first boy on the block to have an RFID tagged granny!

      Mommy! Grandma is at the strip joint again!

    2. Re:Grandma loves the tag by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

      Nobody is going to be the first on the block to have anything. The price of regular nursing homes are already thru the roof. I can't imagine the cost of a nursing home with terminators and T1000s feeding you.

    3. Re:Grandma loves the tag by randyest · · Score: 1

      That was not informative, interesting, insightful, funny, underrated, overrated, flamebait, troll, or offtopic.

      --
      everything in moderation
  7. Absolutely.... by acceber · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ....nobody wants to have their privacy invaded with cameras, tracking devices, sensoring of activity... even if it's got a fancy name like "Personal Emergency Response System".

    Just gives more reasons for our grandparents to fight against being shoved into nursing homes.

    1. Re:Absolutely.... by randyest · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Right. Unless they don't want to die painfully and slowly from a minor injory that diasables them but could otherwise be treated easily if anyone knew about it in time.

      Other than those people, nobody indeed.

      You're exactly right.

      --
      everything in moderation
    2. Re:Absolutely.... by NevermindPhreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      you could fall down a flight of stairs and break your back, and slowly bleed to death from it because you cant move to get help. you could be working on a car and have it slip off the jack and pin you underneath it, and die of thirst if nobody found out in time. should you be monitored throughout your day as well? i know that the odds of the elderly falling victim to what you said are higher than you or me, but where do we draw the line? and, how would you feel if you were suddenly on the other side of that line? im not trying to disagree with you on this, just trying to show you the other side of the argument before its your time to be on that side.

    3. Re:Absolutely.... by Stepping+Razor · · Score: 1

      I'm sure I've heard stories about children being tagged by their parents. Now the grandparents get tagged too. Which family members can we tag next, spouses?

    4. Re:Absolutely.... by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 1

      Quite a few, if not most, of them would prefer to risk that instead of being shoved in a nursing home where they're watched every minute of the day.

    5. Re:Absolutely.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Among other things, it's optional, so there is no "line" to be on either side of. Second, even if there were a line, because of people concerned about privacy, it would be a line almost everyone could agree on who participated in whatever the program like this was: for instance, you don't have to live in that retirement community. If you read the article, they already have non-electronic methods of achieving many of the same goals, so it's not as though this is completely unusual. In any case, the article says, "One of the greatest fears of seniors is that they will try to summon help and somehow the message does not get through or they don't know if someone is coming or not."

      You might make the argument that if all good assisted living centers implement tracking, then you don't have a choice about privacy. And maybe you could argue they're doing it to decrease liability as much as to actually protect residents, so it's not providing a real benefit. On the other hand, constant monitoring probably increases their liability in some ways -- at least, if they do not respond promptly to a panic button, for instance -- so it might not be ubiquitous. And because it's so expensive, it'll be a while before it does become ubiquitous. And finally, if enough people care, it will be optional, or privacy safeguards will be put in place. And if enough people don't care, well, maybe there's a reason.

      Finally, I just don't see the slippery slope here. I think that the elderly want this kind of thing, so they get it. Children are tracked because they're too young and rambuntious to make safe decisions. If the government tried to do this, they would get murdered by activitists. On the other hand, constant monitoring in assisted living and -- I hope soon -- nursing homes would help deal with problems like nursing shortages. (And not all families that put the elderly in nursing homes have bad reasons for it. Sometimes it's the only solution for an elderly person who cannot take care of him or herself and who requires very expensive near-constant monitoring.)

    6. Re:Absolutely.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously have no idea what goes on inside nursing homes. I've had the good fortune to work in one for six months, and believe me, privacy is one of the least important things you should worry about there. Nursing homes are chronically understaffed (often twenty residents to one caregiver), low on supplies, and employ people who barely know how to do their jobs.

      The health care crisis is what you should worry about, not up-in-the-clouds problems about privacy of people who aren't ashamed of openly masturbating in the front lobby at times, not knowing where and who they are, stripping naked and trying to escape during the night, fighting other residents in their sweet oblivion.

    7. Re:Absolutely.... by Lykos · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I work in the IS department of a reteirment community and these devices are far from big brother type shackles. The locator parts of the charms and bracelets only work when the button on the unit is pushed. The resident is the one that has to initiate it and they only do that when the have an emergency.

      As for the cameras, we've put ours up not so much to watch the residents but to watch the folks careing for them. I know this will be a shock to you but there are people out there who would steal from the elderly just becuase they can. I've put in digital cameras and recorders just to make sure we catch whoever it is thinks they can take Mrs Jones watch.

      Lastly I would challange your view of these facilites as "Nursing Homes". Sure almost all of them have a nusring wing or unit to care for resdients that have been injured or require acute care but that's only one part. These facilites cater to everyone from the independent residents who hold golf cart races on the campus to Alhzimer's vicitms whose familiy cannot give them the 24/7 care that is REQUIRED of someone with that condition. We also have Hospice Care for those that CHOOSE not to come into our community but just want care in their own home. The hospice care is less expensive for the patient and less expensive for us to operate. The only reason there are reteirment communities like the ones I work for are becuase there is a demand from the residents. If you don't believe me, check some out in your area. There are more than you'd think and they have certianly come a long way from the sterile nursing homes of the 80's and 90's. Heck, I'm trying to budget VoIP phones and WiFi for the residents becuase they want to pick from the menu at the resturant on campus from their phone and use their laptop out by the lake.

      -L

    8. Re:Absolutely.... by randyest · · Score: 1

      As someone else pointed out, elderly people are much more likely to be seriously injured or immobilized by a fall (broken hip.) They're also more likely to not be missed for longer periods of time, what with the retired status, many deceased friends, etc.

      If I should suffer one of the scenarios you list, my wife would probably notice, friends are likely to stop by, the appointment I missed will arouse suspicion, or work will send someone to find out where I am.

      It's optional, anyway. And a lot of elderly will opt for it. Not "nobody."

      --
      everything in moderation
    9. Re:Absolutely.... by binarybum · · Score: 1

      Or if they want to be able to get help when the metal ones come for them.

      --
      ôó
  8. Obligatory Simpsons quote by laserbeak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yay we can go outside again! Hmm, I don't like the look of those teenagers! *goes back inside* But on a serious note.. isn't this just a bit derogatory towards older people, it's treating them like animals. Has there been an outbreak of lost elderly people recently?

    1. Re:Obligatory Simpsons quote by PeterPumpkin · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, the older people you and I see on a regular basis are the sharp ones that can still live like normal.

      However there are those like the Alzheimer's patients who are given some element of freedom, and when they wander off don't remember where they came from or don't know they are lost and keep wandering. Ever try to find someone who doesn't know where they are going or that they are lost? It is more difficult than you might think.

    2. Re:Obligatory Simpsons quote by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      Has there been an outbreak of lost elderly people recently?

      It's kind of an ongoing thing. That's why people get sent to nursing homes. Some elderly people don't have all of their mental faculties anymore. Some of the elderly need to be cared for, so they don't hurt themselves and so they are not hurt by others.

      It was about 5 or 6 years ago, but I remember a case in my area (Western PA) where some guy picked up an elderly woman who had Alzheimer's disease and convinced her that he was her deceased husband then spent the next 4 or 5 hours screwing her brains out. He dropped her off none the worse for wear, but things could have gone a LOT worse.

      Something like this will make a nursing home more attractive to the relatives of the people who need this kind of monitoring.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    3. Re:Obligatory Simpsons quote by hugesmile · · Score: 1
      when they wander off don't remember where they came from or don't know they are lost

      We have a family member with Alzheimers - it's not a funny topic. But I thought it was interesting to dwell on that sentence above; is someone lost if they don't know they are lost? Just because you can't find me, does that make me lost?

      There's a local man that's been missing for 45 days who wandered off. He can't take care of himself, and so he's probably doomed, or gone already.

      I am a privacy nut, but it's ironic how attitudes change as you get older - I may like this protection. On the other hand, when I am 90, do I really want the Nursing Home staff to know that I snuck down to the 84-year old babe's room at 4 am for a little latenight snack? (I understand that sex among residents is considered a challenge for the staff of some homes.) Is it really their business?

    4. Re:Obligatory Simpsons quote by Stepping+Razor · · Score: 1

      There are some sick bastards around. Using an old woman's mental ill health to con her into sex, surely that counts as rape.

    5. Re:Obligatory Simpsons quote by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      Using an old woman's mental ill health to con her into sex, surely that counts as rape.

      I'm not sure that it did count as "rape", I think (I'm not sure, but I think) that under the laws of this state at that time force had to be an element for it to be rape. It may have just been sexual assault.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  9. I just hope... by Gamma_UCF · · Score: 5, Funny

    ..that the nursing home never gets any retired slashdotters there. I'm sure the tin foil would be missing from the tops of the dinner trays and quickly turned into hats...

    --
    -Gamma
    1. Re:I just hope... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hats? How about some tinfoil Depends?

    2. Re:I just hope... by DickBreath · · Score: 0

      If you use a double layer of tin foil to make your hat, it turns out to be more than twice as effective at keeping out the alien brain lasers. I know it is true -- I read it on the Internet.

      Furthermore, if you fashion two antennas on the top instead of the usual one, then this adds a further 23% increase in efficiency.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  10. Re:Ah more stuff they can ignore by zaxios · · Score: 1

    Kidney stones aren't useful. Why would something that could help the minders pass?

  11. Bah Humbug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    In my day, we didn't have young whippersnappers such as yourselves tracking us with your whositz and your whatnots. We tied onions to our belts, each person a different colored onion. Yessir, that's how they tracked us. Onions. Now, back then you couldn't just get onions anywhere. Nosir. You had to hop the So'easter heading to Fayettesvile. That's where the onion factories were.... First you had to get past the guards ndnmsa,sdnfffsf snorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre.

  12. what TFA didnt mention by ErichTheWebGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    is whether it can trigger an alarm if a patient wonders offsite. It's a bigger problem than most people realize -- an Alzheimer's patient wonders off, gets lost, sometimes for days on end wondering the streets. IMHO the most valuable part of a system like this would be the ability to trigger an alarm if patients cross a pre-defined boundary.

    It did, however, mention that it records the exact time employees enter and leave the facility, so that they only get paid for the time they actually work. The infrastructure and underlying components seem to be there, but it seems to me like they are more interested in protecting their money than their residents.

    --
    bash: rtfm: command not found
    1. Re:what TFA didnt mention by abulafia · · Score: 2, Funny
      IMHO the most valuable part of a system like this would be the ability to trigger an alarm if patients cross a pre-defined boundary.

      We already have useful systems for handling this.

      Personally, I want behavioural adjustment collars for my clients to wear...

      I'm sure my tongue is somewhere near my cheek.

      --
      I forget what 8 was for.
    2. Re:what TFA didnt mention by AtomicBomb · · Score: 1

      Old people still want their privacy. This type of system only work if the patient essentially loses his/her conscious but not mobility, e.g. in later stage of Alzheimer.

      About 15 years ago, my family was involved in the search of my mother's 90yo grandma. Great grandma preferred to live at home despite her illness. She left home at midnight after everyone went to bed... My uncle notified the relatives to launch for a search. It was a puzzle to us. We knew she must be around doing something that she thought sensible...

      At the end, we found her sitting on the pavement outside a bank. She was fairly confused by her illness at that stage. Words were limited, something along the line of "lazybone, open so late. I want 'cheung fan*'..." From our understanding, she thought it was about breakfast time (note: it was indeed midnight) so she wandered around the street for a nice cafe. The bank was in fact located at the site of a former cafe... But, that cafe had been demolished in the second World War.... The tracking device would be a great help to us...

      * 'cheung fan' is a special breakfast food in my hometown.

    3. Re:what TFA didnt mention by ErichTheWebGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Can I get a "behavioural adjustment collar" for the end-users at the office? Please?

      end-user: My Windows OS locked -- [bzzzzzt]
      me: what was that?
      end-user: My computer is [bzzzzzzzzt]
      me: i'm sorry, what?
      end-user: just called to say what a great job you are doing :)

      Oh, yeah. I'd pay thousands for that system....

      --
      bash: rtfm: command not found
    4. Re:what TFA didnt mention by ErichTheWebGuy · · Score: 1

      What a fascinating story, and a great case for systems similar to the one described in the OP. The GPS wristwatches offer a potential solution to that, without invading the privacy of your loved one too much.

      Of course, 15 years ago, GPS was still classified. Nowadays, though, hell it seems like a no-brainer to me.

      --
      bash: rtfm: command not found
    5. Re:what TFA didnt mention by eniu!uine · · Score: 1

      "off, gets lost, sometimes for days on end wondering the streets. IMHO the most valuable part of a system like this would be the ability to trigger an alarm if patients cross a pre-defined boundary."

      Most Alzheimers units are lockdown units, and those that aren't have a wrist band(probably similar in size to what they would have to wear for this thing) that sets off an alarm when the resident tries to leave.

      "It did, however, mention that it records the exact time employees enter and leave the facility, so that they only get paid for the time they actually work. The infrastructure and underlying components seem to be there, but it seems to me like they are more interested in protecting their money than their residents. "

      I find this more likely. When we installed cameras where I work it was with the assurance that it was to keep track of residents, but while I haven't seen it used much for residents I have seen multiple instances of using them to keep track of staff. We have changed administrators three times since the cameras were installed, and no one remembers being promised that the cameras were to be for resident safety only. That's another issue: Are we eliminating resident privacy for necessary safety reasons, or staff convenience? These people have the right to live as close to a normal life as possible. It's not normal to be watched at all times.. unless you're in the UK, where it's OK.

    6. Re:what TFA didnt mention by Trillan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Great! My mother works in a long term care facility, and the horror stories of what other employees do there makes me quite happy about this. If nothing else, it will hopefully help reveal who left a resident in a bath tub alone for several hours so they could go for a long lunch... something they very often can't tell you themselves.

    7. Re:what TFA didnt mention by ErichTheWebGuy · · Score: 1

      Most Alzheimers units are lockdown units, and those that aren't have a wrist band(probably similar in size to what they would have to wear for this thing) that sets off an alarm when the resident tries to leave

      Sweet, thanks for the info. I have never been employed in a home, nor had a loved one in a home, so I didn't know.

      The employees being watched on camera is universal. My wife used to work at K-Mart, and the loss-control guys always made it clear that the cameras in the store were mostly there to watch you, not the customer. Kind of a scary world we live in. I don't like the idea of being watched all the time at my job.

      --
      bash: rtfm: command not found
    8. Re:what TFA didnt mention by Biogenesis · · Score: 1

      Trigger an alarm hey? Like give the patient a sharp electric shock whenever they dare to venture to the mysterious and long forgotten "outside".

      Why are they doing this in a nursing home anyway? I would have thought that something like the prison system would be a better place to implement such technology...maybe even in high schools (which are basically just prisons where people are punished for being born anyway).

    9. Re:what TFA didnt mention by ErichTheWebGuy · · Score: 1

      Excellent point. Those bastards that do that crap deserve to be locked up for a long, long time. Maybe this system will help with that.

      --
      bash: rtfm: command not found
    10. Re:what TFA didnt mention by ErichTheWebGuy · · Score: 1

      Trigger an alarm hey? Like give the patient a sharp electric shock whenever they dare to venture to the mysterious and long forgotten "outside".

      No, like notify someone if a person who no longer has full control of his or her mental faculties is in real danger of being harmed.

      Ideally, they should be taken offsite regularly to explore the mysterious and forgotten outside. I know that in practice, it almost never happens. I do not, however, think that the solution is to allow people to wonder the streets who are no longer capable of doing so.

      --
      bash: rtfm: command not found
    11. Re:what TFA didnt mention by lonesome+phreak · · Score: 1

      I would assume it's some of the same tech, really. IT's probably been tested in prisons, or at elast the company making it probably has a backgruond in this in another industry anyway.

      This http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products/ge-interl ogix?pnlid=9&famid=67&catid=1432&id=pers&lang=en_U S
      is by GE, and the website of the home itself doesn't mention the new deployment.

      --
      Maybe we DID take the blue pill. You wouldn't remember anyway.
    12. Re:what TFA didnt mention by dtfinch · · Score: 1

      No, like notify someone if a person who no longer has full control of his or her mental faculties is in real danger of being harmed

      Or want their freedom back. Some old people really don't want to live any longer, and are sane enough to make that decision, whether the powers that be agree with them or not. My grandmother made dozens of suicide attempts while at her nursing home. She was mostly paralyzed, mute, and in constant agony for about 7 years. They gradually took steps to prevent future suicide attempts. It's hard to pull your feeding tube out when your arms are strapped to your sides, and your tube is reinforced in place by stitches. It was a lung infection that finally did her in. The nursing staff was sad to see her depart, as social security paid the home over $5000 a month for her care.

    13. Re:what TFA didnt mention by isorox · · Score: 1

      What you need is a LART (Luser attitude readjustment tool). They cmoe in many shapes and sizes, my favourite is a red two-by-four on the wall. Coupled with forgetting to answer the phone, the user will have to come to the support desk. When you say, sure, I'll help, stand up and get the LART.

    14. Re:what TFA didnt mention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my experience at a nursing home (as a relative), most patients who wander off are not suicidal -- they just don't know what's going on. I think a case like your grandmother is very different. i also think the wish to die is something that must be supported by the family rather than the staff of the home.

      They may want their freedom back, but if they aren't able to handle it safely, and unless they have an actual death wish, then protecting them is, in my opinion, the right way to go.

    15. Re:what TFA didnt mention by Guru2Newbie · · Score: 1
      is whether it can trigger an alarm if a patient wonders offsite.

      And I wonder if your grammar-processor wandered off somewhere.

    16. Re:what TFA didnt mention by ErichTheWebGuy · · Score: 1

      yea, it wondered off somewhere. deal with it.

      --
      bash: rtfm: command not found
  13. Refrigerator Door by Rick+and+Roll · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Putting sensors on a refrigerator door to see if someone is out and about is a great idea. Sure, after the fact it's very obvious, but most innovations are, after the fact.

    The alert system also sounds very cool. Especially its ability to work in the forested area. Not a bad facility.

    Glad to see they have creative people working there, that understand human behavior. They must be very well-versed in user interfaces.

    1. Re:Refrigerator Door by hyperlinx · · Score: 1

      Yea, great idea those sensors on the fridge....then we can have itemized billing as the coke (or ensure) passes by an RFID sensor...oh no, the can went back in...is it empty or half full?....oh well, we'll charge 'em anyway cause they opened the door and let the cold out.

      --
      In /.space, no one can hear you SCREAM!
  14. System by Zorilla · · Score: 1

    All they need now is a moderation system so that they get modded -1 any time they mention their colonoscopy they had a week ago.

    --

    It would be cool if it didn't suck.
  15. The way it really works by Animats · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Thank you for calling Friendly Senior Services. Your call is important to us. All attendants are currently busy helping other callers. Please stay on the line, and an attendant will be with you shortly. If this is an emergency, hang up and dial 911".

    1. Re:The way it really works by ErichTheWebGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ive fallen and i cant:

      - get up
      - reach the phone to call 911
      - move
      - speak

      The point is, it really might be an emergency and you bring up a good point. People are human, that's just the way it is. Humans are limited resources (they can only do one thing at once). Let's also say that the emergency has happened at a time when, oh say the power has gone out, the a/c is broken, a foul odor is afoot, etc. and everyone is hitting the emergency button to get a quick response when they ask WTF is happening.

      Nothing is perfect. But at the same time, this system is better than nothing. I used to be great friends with a lady who was 80-something and had a life-alert necklace. She really did fall and break her hip and arm, and would have had no hope of reaching the phone. That alert necklace saved her bacon on that occasion. This system, in theory, is making great progress on that front. Now, we just have to balance the (valid) privacy concerns with the functionality of the system.

      --
      bash: rtfm: command not found
  16. The Near-Death Star! by longbot · · Score: 0

    Seriously, am I the only one thinking of that Futurama episode?

    --
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it! --Longbottle
  17. Quite Useful. by Vlion · · Score: 1

    These are older people with health problems.
    Having this kind of a system allows the staff to keep tabs on the residents, thereby (theoretically)
    giving them the ability to quickly respond in case of problems.

    Think about your grandmother or other old person you know- if/when they go in, you want them to be monitored- its not that far off from a hosipital, after all. :)

    my 2 decicreds here...

    --
    /b
    |f(x)dx = F(b) - F(a)
    /a
    1. Re:Quite Useful. by dosius · · Score: 1

      Then again, I've heard of nursing homes where the staff are like "who cares, these people are going to die anyway", and neglect the people who live there, what about cases like that?

      Moll.

      --
      What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    2. Re:Quite Useful. by name773 · · Score: 1

      i think you meant centicreds

  18. Outbreak of elderly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (With apologies to the German rock band Sodom...)

    As the baby boomers age, yes, there is going to be a surplus of elderly people, especially those who partied too hard when they were younger and thus have alzheimers, parkinson's, etc.

    Droolers.

    1. Re:Outbreak of elderly by randyest · · Score: 1

      I'm just drunk amd stoned enough to reply to an AC and insist: linkage that links partying to "alzheimers, parkinson's, etc." please!

      --
      everything in moderation
  19. All is good and well by Lifix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "The Personal Emergency Response System that will locate residents throughout the 41-acre complex, including the indoor pool, on a trail through six acres of forest and in 64 duplex and free-standing homes."

    Until the power goes out, and the on hand staff must search the entire complex for all the seniors because they haven't prepared for the possibility. The system is great, however the staff needs to be trained to handle a power less situation and to locate the residents quickly.

    One of the disadvantages with using a new system like the one described is becoming dependent on it.

    --
    In nature, there are neither rewards or punishments, there are only consequences.
    1. Re:All is good and well by volinux · · Score: 1

      I'm sure most of these places have generators on hand. Even if the generator was only used for critical applications, a simple UPS would do long enough for them to round the folks up.

    2. Re:All is good and well by Lykos · · Score: 1

      We have at least 1 hour UPSes on all life saftey equipment at our facilites. We also have generators hooked up to each emergency system (fire alarms, lifesaftey, telephone switches, acute medical equipment) and that comes on automatically in 30 seconds if the power isn't restored. Our facilites know the systems arn't pefect but it's alot better than letting a resdient get hurt and us having no clue it's happend. -L

  20. Conspiracy theories r us by NZ+Joe · · Score: 1

    They do already. The genes that they've inserted into soy, corn, canola and cotton 20 years ago produce carbon-nano-RFID tags ;)

    1. Re:Conspiracy theories r us by gnuman99 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Time to put on my aluminum (shiny side out!!) burka!!

  21. I AM THE PUSHER ROBOT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I the only one who read the headline and thought: "I am the pusher robot... I push grandma down the stairs"? link

  22. Beta testing. by vspazv · · Score: 1

    I guess they figured that people weren't buying the old excuses about only using stuff like this to track sex offenders/pedophiles so now they're trying to protect old people. Im just waiting for the day when they hand everyone fluffy white wool jackets to wear.

  23. Bowels Open ??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
    As a doctor whos worked in a few resthomes the thought of them going high tech has always amused me.

    One thing about nurses is that they often keep detailed record of things. For example all nursing notes tend to keep a recorded of how many times a persons bowels have opened during the nurse's shift. eg.

    BNO = bowels not opened
    BO x 2 = bowels opened twice

    As these places become more high tech and have nursing notes placed in databases amazing facts of information about people will be able to be gleamed.

    For example, you could find out that Mr X had 480 peices of toast in the last twelve months, and that he opened his bowels 250 times... and that he tended to open his bowel in morning after having 2 peices of toast for breakfast, not his normal one.

    I'm sure the department of homeland security could make brilliant use of such information!!!

  24. A step too far? by psb777 · · Score: 1

    "Nurse Jones, the computer is telling me Old Mavis is constipated again."

    --
    Paul Beardsell
  25. Cares.. by 12357bd · · Score: 2, Informative

    I remember maybe 10 years ago a bed manufacturer who used a grid of pressure sensors, and a neural network to sense people presence, position and activity.
    The idea was simple and seemed good, but I've never see-it in the real world.

    Anyway, technological aids are only that, aids, never a people replacement.

    --
    What's in a sig?
  26. Tech? by wellwatch · · Score: 1

    I'm just curious if they're using GPS, RFID or Loran type stuff, another interesting thing might be to put an altimeter in each of the little push buttons so they can find out if the person has fallen, and is unconcious, or something. I'm not sure though that this technology is really required though, it seems like the majority of people entering this home are those who are fully functional and can do things like cross country ski, I could be wrong but do they really need all this information/tracking information about them?

    --
    "He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction here and merely hoped.
    1. Re:Tech? by randyest · · Score: 1

      GPS doesn't work well indoors. Probably RFID.

      --
      everything in moderation
    2. Re:Tech? by Zone-MR · · Score: 1

      a) Find me an altimeter with that kind of sensitivity.
      b) How is altitude useful if you don't know how high the ground is at that particular point?

    3. Re:Tech? by tfulton2 · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind the limitations of juman-actuated interfaces, as some seniors or other patients who suffer a stroke may be unable to deliver the needed input.

  27. I work with elderly patients on a daily basis.... by IanDanforth · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I can tell you a few things about the elderly. Most of them make the decision eventually to get into assisted living facilities. Its not their kids, or anyone pushing them. If they live a long time alone, have a spouse die, or see declining health in their partner. Assisted living becomes a real, and valuable, option.

    Now the participants I deal with are all cognitively aware for the most part, but even the sharp ones will get lost walking up and down a short corridor. Over the age of 80 there is a steep decline, though you'd be amazed at how active people are late into their 70s!

    Only a few of the men I've talked to would take up something like this device willingly, but most if not all would love their spouses to have it. And I'm sure the wives feel similarly (I only get to see the men).

    Would I want such a device? Probably not, but then again I am intimately familiar with what a hip fracture does to someone, and how scary even mild dementia can be.

    -Ian

  28. and the watch for beating begins by whatsup_will · · Score: 1

    if they install this in a bad old home, i bet they could catch alot of bad stuff happening, like staff beating up old people, old people beating up old people, and everything else that happens.

  29. Track the staff by kmahan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Another use would be to keep track of the staff. There are frequent news stories about how the staff is either abusing or neglecting the patients they are entrusted to care for. While working at these places seems like it can suck at times you are still expected to provide the patients with proper care -- not rough them up, ignore them, or rob them.

    --
    Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
    1. Re:Track the staff by billstewart · · Score: 2, Insightful
      And there are a lot more stories about nursing home staff who are underpaid, undertrained, and so understaffed they don't have enough time for everything they need to get done, much less time to be attentive to the residents and/or patients (depending on the type of place.)

      Higher-priced independent living places usually do better at it, but they're essentially doing a hotel's job (and often run by hotel chains such as Marriott), but lower-end places and places that need more nursing care are usually a tough job situation.

      --

      Bill Stewart
      New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  30. Freedom. by starphish · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I'm a libertarian, am all about freedom, liberty, and keeping people's noses out of my business.

    However, something that is orwelian used in one way, can have the opposite effect used another way.

    My Dad is in a fairly advanced stage of dementia. He hardly talks, and no longer recognizes family. He is currently in long term care in a locked ward to keep him from wandering off. It would be a great danger to him if he was allowed to go where he wants. Currently, he can only leave if a family member comes and takes him for a walk. I did this today actually.

    Something like this would give him greater freedom, and would improve his quality of life. I would love it if my dad could roam freely. If his whereabouts could be monitored, he could gain at least a shred of freedom.

    --
    Yeah, yeah, yeah. The story is a dupe, the topic is boring, the facts weren't checked. WE GET IT!!
    1. Re:Freedom. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Absolutely. I love freedom and privacy too. But I was about to post something similar in answer to an above complaint about "privacy".

      I saw my dad, a stroke victim, finish out his life in a nursing home. Let me tell you, the people who work there need the help. They're operating on a shoe string and it's easier to tie people down than keep an eye on them. (To be fair my impaired dad was absolultely obsessed with getting out of the wheelchair they'd park him in each day, and he was not steady enough on his feet to be doing so.)

      Luckily the worst stage only lasted 6 months. I'd rather kill myself, but the problem is seeing it coming before you loose you ability.

  31. Game Over!!! by Baldrson · · Score: 0
    For those who thought retirement was going to be something that was merely delayed due to the insolvensy of social security -- this sort of "high tech nursing home" is more what they can expect. Monitoring behavior of people you are killing with your underfunded malstaffed institutions is part of the controls that will be necessary. Nursing home residents of the future will have too little to lose and perhaps a final moment of meaning in an otherwise meaningless life to gain through "maladjustment".

    Don't know what I'm talking about?

    Check this:

    The Domestic End Game

    March 4, 2002

    I can recall very clearly one morning many years ago while commuting to work in the North suburbs of Chicago hearing the announcement that the government was removing home prices from the CPI. That was 1981, if I am not mistaken. At that time, the CPI was running at about an 8% annual rate of increase, largely because of soaring home prices.

    The rise in home prices created a new trend. After 14 years of stagnating stock prices some homeowners would keep their old homes when they moved and rent them in the expectation that the price of the home would keep rising. Thus, the rents were typically set at the homeowners old mortgage rate plus the real estate taxes. I was renting just such a home at the time, and the rent was a mere 3% of the market value of the house. The cash outlay, even net of taxes, was far less than a mortgage on the full market value of the home.

    In the place of housing prices the government substituted precisely this type of rent, available on a mere 2% of the total housing stock, and called it "imputed rent." Thus, it was the rental rate charged by the 2% of homeowners who were the most optimistic about price appreciation, so that they could hold on to their first homes and sell them later. All they needed to cover was their cash outlay for mortgage and taxes, and they had to offer a rental bargain to lure away tenants from the siren song of appreciation and tax deductions that they might otherwise have if they purchased a house instead of renting a house.

    Of course this imputed rental vastly understated the actual cash outlay for housing by about 55% of the American public which owned homes, but that was precisely the point. In response to the inflation of the 1970's Congress indexed both Social Security had Federal income tax marginal rates to the CPI, which was then based upon a fixed basket of goods. Thus, inflation hurt our imperial government by raising its costs (Social Security) and lowering its revenues (indexed marginal tax rates). This CPI adjustment had the effect of repealing the politically popular protections enacted by Congress to shield the public from the effects of inflation (raising their taxes and lowering their retirement incomes).

    And since shelter costs represented 40% of the CPI, I knew that the CPI would chronically understate inflation from that point onward. Instead of a fixed basket of goods, it had become a political fiction, created by un-elected inner-party bureaucrats to preserve the power of the imperial government they so thoroughly idolized.

    Some twenty years later I read a news article which states that the average Social Security Benefit has just been increased to reflect this year's CPI and is now $872 per month.

    Tilt!!!

    An efficiency apartment in what our imperial elites effectionately refer to as the "fly-over" areas of the country costs $550 per month.

    So how on earth can anybody actually live on Social Security?

    Folks, social security has already been repealed.

    Game over!!!

    Twenty years of inner party monkeying with the CPI has produced a pot of water with a gradually rising temperature which has finally cooked the frog.

    As the infirmities of old age set in, most of the elderly end up in retirement homes.

    A decent retirement home costs about $20,000 per year. What kind of care can a Soci

  32. Maybe lead to actually more freedom? by Fiz+Ocelot · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Perhaps if they can always monitored for location and vital signs, elderly people can actually have more freedom and safety? They would be more able to get out of the house and do things without worrying about anything.

    Some people must choose between a nursing home or a live-in nurse, and this could help mitigate the costs. Maybe even more privacy, nobody will need to physically go in and bother them to see if they're ok, all vitals are constantly monitored.(I don't know if they can monitor vitals like that yet, but they will)

    1. Re:Maybe lead to actually more freedom? by ExistentialFeline · · Score: 1

      Researchers at UW have been working on a long-term project to keep track of what a patient with alzheimers is doing and remind them if they forget, so that they can continue living in their home. linkage

  33. So it's no longer Big Brother... by Sielle · · Score: 2, Funny

    So it isn't Big Brother that's watching us any more, it's Young Whipper Snapper? They keep making things so difficult to follow.

  34. Nice.... by cbdavis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am really looking forward to getting stuck in a
    home. 3 squares a day. 24 hour security. cameras or RFID tags to follow me. No worries or
    responsibilities. Wait...sounds like prison.....!

    Never mind

  35. Just as grandma predicted by dtfinch · · Score: 1

    "Key chain fobs for residents that will wirelessly unlock doors to the complex and link to their accounts for purchases in the gift shop and in-house bar."

    At least a few of those old people are going to relate this to the beast, though it's difficult to liken a fob to a mark on the right hand or forehead.

  36. Sad... by igrp · · Score: 4, Insightful
    As I geek I find this interesting. As a human being though, I do find it sad.

    I recently had to deal with a legal case of an elderly gentleman. I can't give any details but it was basically Mr. American Dream: young man immigrates, starts company, finds a niche, works hard and eventually becomes wealthy.

    Due to a heart condition, and I suspect old age in general, he required constant supervision. Since his kids just couldn't handle it any more (I realize this is harsh but taking care of someone 24/7 isn't exactly easy) they moved him into an assisted living community.

    Now, this man was wealthy and, generally doing fine when he moved in. Almost two years and more than $9000 a month later, he was broke and doing not so well (emphasis is on not).

    I got to see the place and on the outside everything was alright. Modern facilities, friendly staff, a pool, competent medical personell and a state of the art security system. That's right. Camera surveillance that would make the British government pale in envy. Even in some of the rooms. Motion detectors. Wireless heart monitors. Kinda spooky in an Orwellian way.

    Of course, this was all not used for surveillance purposes - they installed all this for safety and/or medical reasons. And, of course, the patients signed off on it and were(mostly) aware that they're being monitored.

    The problem is, the constant lack of human interaction (the most you could hope for is somebody coming by once a day to see if you were indeed still alive) is hard on those old people and it does seem to have a really negative effect on their health. Of course, I can't prove a direct correlation but it was pretty obvious that his man's deteriorating health at least had to do with him feeling that there was nothing left to look forward to.

    I think this is one of those instances were technology is not helping but rather hurting us.

    1. Re:Sad... by hugesmile · · Score: 1
      the most you could hope for is somebody coming by once a day to see if you were indeed still alive

      I wonder if chat rooms (or other technology interaction) would help. Sounds silly (I can't imagine teaching my 100 year old grandfather how to sign onto a computer. And his vision would be an obstacle). But I bet when you and I are 90, we'll have some other options for communication besides face-to-face.

      I'll probably be in chat rooms pretending to be 59 and handsome....

    2. Re:Sad... by ExistentialFeline · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My grandfather learned to use a computer at 88 or so. He died this year at 91. He mostly used the computer to read his home town newspaper online and write emails, though I imagine he did some other websurfing. I offered to do stuff like play cards online with him but he never took me up on the offer. Of course I think my uncle gave him some equipment that was kinda unreliable so he was offline on a more frequent basis than normal. One of his big problems was that he was pretty much perfectly sound of mind of mind but that there wasn't much of anyone to talk to at the facilities except the nurses because most of the other residents weren't "fully there" anymore.

    3. Re:Sad... by barzok · · Score: 1
      I wonder if chat rooms (or other technology interaction) would help. Sounds silly (I can't imagine teaching my 100 year old grandfather how to sign onto a computer. And his vision would be an obstacle). But I bet when you and I are 90, we'll have some other options for communication besides face-to-face.
      Lots of obstacles. Older people tend to have more trouble with their hands too, so typing could be real tough. The loss of multiple senses used w/ the computer will make it hard as well. For example, my grandmother has Macular Degeneration and it's pretty far along (I don't think she has a clue what my wife & I even look like - I went 10 years without seeing her, so any mental image she has of me is when I was a teenager) and her hearing is also failing. So, not only would she have a very hard time reading the screen, she might not even hear the computer chime that she has a new message unless the volume is exceedingly high. A screenreader would essentially require she wear headphones constantly.
  37. Re:friendly advice by randyest · · Score: 1

    No, it wouldn't have.

    --
    everything in moderation
  38. Alzheimers really sucks. by billstewart · · Score: 2, Informative
    My mother used to live in a retirement home, because she can't see well enough to drive. The section she was in was basically an apartment building with a cafeteria and weekly maid service. She decided to move back into an apartment, mainly for cost reasons, and spend part of the difference on more taxis. One thing that was universal, whether you needed it or not, was that you had to check in daily so they knew you were okay and not lying on the floor with a broken hip, which happens a lot to old people.

    My mother-in-law is living in a retirement home. She's not very mobile, and needs people to help with a few things, and living in her apartment got too hard and too dangerous, because the "I've fallen and I can't get up" problem is really serious if you can't get up (she can't), plus it's hard to find cooks who'll stay around for more than a few months (that seems to be a very temporary job for most people who do it.) And she doesn't want to move up to the frozen north to live with us.

    The last place she lived had an Alzheimers wing. We didn't see those people very often, but they do wander off and get lost, and some are in worse shape than others. My grandfather spent about four years seriously senile in a nursing home, and needed a lot of reminding and help to do things; my grandmother was in the same room, clearheaded to the end but in bad physical shape. They didn't really like the place, but that had a lot to do with institutional cooking and inattentive nursing staff, and the other place they'd tried wasn't much better.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  39. Slashdotters in fifty years.... by sockonafish · · Score: 2, Funny

    Where's my tin-foil colostomy bag?

  40. What will your old age look like ? by sane? · · Score: 1
    If you look into it, getting old sucks, big time.

    Not only do you have all the pleasures of old age, and your rapidly approaching death to look forward to - you have to consider who will help you when you can't help yourself.

    Now maybe you'll get lucky. Maybe your children, if you have them, will take care of your, for years maybe. However, with the selfish imperative so much to the fore in today's society, do you really think they are going to drop their lives to look after the end of yours?

    So we come to nursing homes. Well, the numbers just don't add up. The cost of that people based care is crippling - savings that you might still have are eaten up and no state wants to pay the money needed to meet even the worst care around.

    Technologies like these mentioned help to reduce the number of people needed to look after old people, making the budgets make a bit more sense. However trading what it means to be human for a few more years of life is not a trade that most people want to make.

    So, you technocrats out there. While you still have your health and your marbles, consider creating some technology that will support you even when you don't know what day it is. The right type of technology that will maintain your humanity - before you have to use it yourself.

  41. Re:I work with elderly patients on a daily basis.. by 12357bd · · Score: 1

    The main point for me is never forget that 'the elderly' are not 'them' but 'us'.

    --
    What's in a sig?
  42. Hope they remove the tags... by Linker3000 · · Score: 1

    ...or the Soylent Green will have crunchy bits..

    --
    AT&ROFLMAO
  43. Don't worry you will by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1
    Enjoy sleeping for 8 hours straight youngster. For that matter, enjoy sleeping.

    And of course there is the always present thought that each morning you could be one of the ones who doesn't wake up at all. Remember retirement homes are places you check into. Kinda like a life sentence in prison with no chance of parol.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  44. Yesterday! by simpl3x · · Score: 1

    The idea that you are being tracked is only relevant from a privacy perspective if they know who you are. The most frightening aspect of government "intervention" is the assumption that they know something about you. I think what the Orwellians missed is the idea of customization or personalization. How can we ensure that what is collected is only related to security/safety/convenience aspects? This is likely down the road after we figure out how to use the information. It's like the Gmail scare... "they're watching ME!" Actually nobody cares about "you." Maybe this is what weblogs are good for--to show you how irrelevant you and your opinion actually are. OK, well at least mine. It's so sad!

    A personal Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle--they can know either who you are or where you are but never both.

  45. Sadly it comes down to money by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1
    I am living currently near a old folks home and the ones you see are the lucky ones. The ones whose bodies are giving up but whose brain is still ticking over as it always been (just that the body attached to it become less responsive). But there are plenty you don't see to who the brain is as badly shot as that woman with walker hips. And they need to be taken care off not like an animal but like a toddler.

    Of course if people didn't elect their leaders based on whom promises to give the biggest tax cut we could simply have nurses and similar staff take care of them. No danger in people running into the street if there is a proper congierge at the gate. But sadly people vote for the guy that gives them 300bucks (and takes a 1000) so we are reduced to this.

    At least I hope this is only used for the elderly with mental problems. Using this on the mentally capable is I think way way way beyond privacy invasion.

    Then again I once SAW (not heard about) a old woman who was tied to her chair to prevent her walking off. Staff just didn't have time to keep checking up on her. Ah well, as long as CDA (the bush party of holland) keeps promising tax cuts this kinda stuff will keep happening.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Sadly it comes down to money by mellon · · Score: 1

      It seems like one benefit of a system like this would be that staff abuse would be caught on video. I really don't know much about what goes on in nursing homes nowadays, although my grandmother used to run one. But I have heard that there is a lot of abuse by staff on residents in poorly-run nursing homes. Having a disinterested electronic witness to that abuse might help, although of course it doesn't address the underlying cause.

  46. Ma, It's not a nursing home! by OzPhIsH · · Score: 1

    It's a Retirement Community

    --

    "To lead the people, you must walk behind them"

  47. Computer... by Mark_in_Brazil · · Score: 1

    Nurse: Computer, where is Captain Kirk?
    Majel Roddenberry's voice, extra-nasal: Captain Kirk is not in the nursing home.
    Nurse: Can you locate him?
    Computer: Processing
    (pause)
    Computer: Captain Kirk has been located by the Personal Emergency Response System of the Hilton corporation. He is in a corridor with a camera crew from Priceline. He is approaching Captain Spock's room.

    --
    "It is nice to know that the computer understands the problem. But I would like to understand it too." --Eugene Wigner
  48. On a related story (in Japan) by lxt · · Score: 1

    The Register was reporting yesterday that Japan was planning to RFID school kids so that they could be monitored on their way to school: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/09/japanese_t ag_schoolkids/

  49. What exactly is the justification for that by tarks · · Score: 2, Insightful
    As I read this I thought what the hell...

    There is possibly no way to show more clearly that you want to deprieve elderly people of their human rights, to show that they are second class at best.

    Somebody else here wrote that old people themselves like to have some support in living once it gets tough. Those that I know judge their ability to handle daily live as being wastly better than their relatives. But their are definitely some of those self-reflecting types.

    So suppose you want to have help coping with your every day life. That means you want people to help you and you want them to do the hard part. Those things you tell them you do not feel capable of. And maybe someone who takes care of your partner who picked up the habit of wandering away at night. But this involves real people too. Not a camera and some remote operator. You definitely do not want to loose your privacy.

    So basically you have the problem: Old people need a lot of help and care. Things that are expensive in terms of human resources by definition. Because you consciouly or not do not consider them worth the effort you try to find some cheap fake-solutions. In this case by reducing the help-and-care-problem to the fact of people tending to get lost and defining that the problem is them getting lost. Not them being disoriented or maybe basically being just lonesome or depressive.

    I could rant on and on about how short-sighted, inhuman and plainly disgusting materialistic this is.

    So long and thanks for all the fish

    1. Re:What exactly is the justification for that by ExistentialFeline · · Score: 1

      There were around 72 million baby-boomers('45-'64 or so), who can expect a longer life than their forbears due to current medical technology. There were only around 18 million Gen-X's('60's-'70's) and there were about 60 million Gen-Y's ('79-'94 or so.) So that makes around 78 million people capable of caring for around 72 million people. Do you think we won't need technology to help? source: wordIQ

    2. Re:What exactly is the justification for that by mindstrm · · Score: 1

      Did you look at the article at all? This is for a retirement community where poeple are still quite ACTIVE.. many acres of grounds, pool, etc.

      This isn't about a nursing home where you don't even get out of bed, and need constant human attention.. it's about being elderly but active, and wanting your PRIVACY, but being able to get help when you need it.

      Would you feel your privacy was less violated if they posted a guard at every door to make sure you don't wander off?

    3. Re:What exactly is the justification for that by tarks · · Score: 1
      This isn't about a nursing home where you don't even get out of bed, and need constant human attention.. it's about being elderly but active, and wanting your PRIVACY, but being able to get help when you need it.

      All the more I would not want to be tracked everywhere

      Would you feel your privacy was less violated if they posted a guard at every door to make sure you don't wander off?

      Definitely. Actually I think there would be no need to have one at every door. But if you had someone sitting in sort of a community room who hears if anything odd is going on and can take a quick look and/or ask if everything is ok that would be sufficient. That "guard" could clarify/resolve all the small problems, reorient you etc. And you have the advantage of being able to make deals like: "Do not tell my @#?! son that I almost fell down the stairs for the forth time this week. This is what keeps your privacy. Privacy is not about stealth but about knowing and controlling who knows what and whome you trust

      And again. The problem is not how to keep them calm and in the stable like a herd of cattle. The problem is how to help them and solve their problems. Cameras and RFID do not solve the latter but the former. IMHO

    4. Re:What exactly is the justification for that by tarks · · Score: 1
      I did not deal with the practical problems (or the practicality) of the problem. If you only look at this side of the problem it is easy: Give everybody the pill once they cost more than they give back (money-wise and/or emotional).

      Neither you nor I want to tackle it that way. So IMHO you have to look at the ethical side first. From this POV the surveillance approach is out of discussion. Your milleage may vary.

      Independently of those two POVs I think you should always analyze what your real problem is and then find a solution for that problem. And not for the problem as it appeared to you at first sight and/or the problem that is the easiest to solve (i.e. you already have a solution: think cameras)

      In my original post I tried to argue that they took the need of support of the elderly people and claimed that they had solution for it, while what they solved was how to economically stop them (the old people) bothering you.

    5. Re:What exactly is the justification for that by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      You've never had to care fro some with Alzheimer's then?

  50. What about the Clapper??!! by john_smith_45678 · · Score: 1

    Clap-On! Clap-Off!

    Surely those have been in retirement homes for years - not high-tech? :p

  51. Nurses in charge by JamesKPolk · · Score: 1

    Ah, but do they have fog machines and control over the passage of time?

  52. About 20 years ago... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2, Interesting
    ... my late father developed a radio alarm beacon deelie for nursing homes. The nursing home staff he showed it to thought it was great - a really handy thing. The "higher-ups" were far from convinced - "Oh, we can't have that, that will take jobs away from our skilled staff". Yeah, and then six months down the line the Thatcher government does just that...


    Anyway, getting back to the beacon, it was a very simple radio transmitter, a button to turn it on, and a simple accelerometer similar to those used in car alarms, to detect falls. A tilt switch would trigger when the person wearing the beacon leaned over. OK, admittedly the accelerometer detected the bounce rather than the fall. The whole thing was about 3"x1"x1.5", and the antenna was built into the lanyard you wore it on. He had plans for integrating a heart monitor to it, too.

  53. FIrst Nursing Homes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then mental institutions, hospitals, prisons, halfway houses, orphanages, schools, work, your ass.

  54. I couldn't disagree more by conJunk · · Score: 1

    isn't this just a bit derogatory towards older people, it's treating them like animals

    not in the least... i used to sell home security systems, and most of the over-60 crowd was *way* into the pendant approach to safety/security

    this is a *major* selling point for the facility in the article... my own grandmother (living 20 miles from nowhere on a peat bog in rural vermont, thanks to my reclusive grandad who i take after) once fell and broke a hip walking their german shepherd... well, now that she's making her own decisions, she's looked *exclusively* at high-maitnance assisted living places...

    for most folks in their 70s and +, the cost is no issues, and being tracked is not only okay, its a value-added bonus... you have to realize that when you are at the age that colds can be fatal and a minor slip is terrifying, the idea of having a computer able to pinpoit your location can help you sleep at night

  55. These Would Be Nice for Home Base Care As Well by mrs+clear+plastic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My father is in the first stages of
    alzeimers.

    So far, he can still remember where he
    is and how to get back home. He goes
    about his daily walks with no problem.

    However, I can see the day when his alzeimers
    advances to the point where he may not be
    able to find his way back home.

    Would it be nice to have some sort of tracking
    on him so that mom (who is caring for him) can
    find him, or better yet, a device that is plugged
    into his ear that tell him how to get back home
    based on gps and street map information; like;
    'Walk left at the next intersection'; and
    so forth.

    We as a family will be needing something like
    this.

    --
    Cleara
    1. Re:These Would Be Nice for Home Base Care As Well by Ztras · · Score: 1

      Already been done.

      It is a GPS and radio enabled watch, which requires a separate tool to remove. Marketed for children, I think it has lots of possibilites for pets as well. Of course, it would be useful for early to mid stage Alzheimer's, and even late stage, on enclosed grounds.

      Now if they just added an OnStar button...

      http://www.wherifywireless.com/prod_watches.htmThe Whereify product in action.

  56. Terrorists have bowels too by Chemisor · · Score: 1

    > I'm sure the department of homeland security could
    > make brilliant use of such information!!!

    For instance they could be alerted whenever someone on an airplane just opened his bowel at an unscheduled time. Fear does that to a man...

  57. Slightly? by mindstrm · · Score: 1

    It's not just slightly higher.. it's way, way higher. If Grandma falls down on the kitchen floor because she slipped on a grape, she can do serious damage to herself. A fall that would leave you or I with just a bruise can easily leave Grandma with a dislocated hip or broken arm. Also, at her age, Grandma doesn't heal as fast form an injury, so an injury has more serious side effects. Throw in complications from other problems that happpen in old age, failing sight, hearing, strength, and even critical thinking, and you can see that it's much more risky.

    When you move into a nursing home, it's ideally because you NEED that care.. you do not have the capability to live by yourself anymore. You can be injured easily doing daily household chores... you do not have the endurance or strength to do what is needed.

  58. yeah but..... by Gridpoet · · Score: 1

    who is watching the rest home staff???

    --

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    This is MY galaxy...go find your OWN!

  59. Who here thought... by ShadowRage · · Score: 1

    when you first read the article, that you thought they had come up with some new way to abuse old people? sadly, this can help the elderly who wander off, of course this could be prevented if the people who work at these places did their damn jobs right in the first place. This is another example of why I will never place my mother in a home, because I dont want her to spend the rest of her days being tagged like an animal in the wild and not given privacy, because the elderly are people too, just because their minds are going doesnt mean they arent people, I can see the advantages of this because people do get lost, but honestly, I dont think it'll help because if a staff member is gonna lose track of someone, I'm pretty sure they're gonna lose track of the screen that reports where these people are currently, and what happens if they wander off the grounds? will they just be ignored? or will someone else, in turn watch them? Would this also be a way for retirement homes to enforce prisoner-like contracts that dont allow people who live at these homes to even visit off campus, or even leave certain areas, like if they're in a yard and walk to a "no no place" in the yard, will they be reprimanded and restricted even more to how much space they can walk in? or will they be charged for how much they "roam" ?

    these are all problems that can arise, especially with retirement homes, which are known to rip off the families of the elderly, or mistreat them. honestly I think this will onlycause for more abuse, but not just to the elderly, but to their families as well.

    1. Re:Who here thought... by Quill_28 · · Score: 1

      Yes, you are correct. Workers in nursing homes are all rip off artists and like to abuse old people.

      My mother-in-law works at a nursing home and she really cares for elderly people.

      My wife also worked as a nuring administrator for a little while.

      Your statements(and plenty of others) show a clear lack of understanding of what it is like to run a nursing home. Trying to please the patient, the family, and the government at the same is a daunting task.

      Patient: there is a reason why they are in the nursing home. Sometimes they are hostile, senile, or just in very bad shape. Sometimes thy are as sweet as pie.

      Family: Many times they are no existent and have huge guilt factors. Also, the patient will lie(probably not on purpose) about something and the family will go ballistic. Families have also been known to lie, cheat, and abuse their parents.

      Government: I heard of one nursing home getting cited because they had an activity of breaking beans and then later they would eat them for supper. For you city folks, breaking beans to older people is called a relaxing and social time. They were cited because the nursing home was asking the residents to work.

      Another nursing allowed a homeless man to stay in a empty bed, he never caused problems. But everyday around 11:00 he would walked around the building for a half hour or so. They were cited because this was dangerous to the man and they had to kick him out back to the railroad tracks were he came from.

      Another government offical watched a elderly person slip and fall lying on the floor in obvious pain and did nothing waiting until a nurse came.
      So she could record the time. My wife cried when she read the report.

    2. Re:Who here thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is another example of why I will never place my mother in a home,

      You may not have that choice! Frequently, elders need more care than a family member can give. Not want to, can. Unless of course you want to turn part of your house into a hospital room, and employ a 24/7 staff of nurses.

  60. Rabbit Snare by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

    Sen Corruptus:"It's good for old people right?"
    Educated Individual:"Ummm yeah ... I guess so...."
    Sen Corruptus:"You wouldn't like them to get lost would you?"
    EI:"No,no... but..."
    Sen Corruptus:"And what about your kids? Don't you care about them?"
    EI:"Of course I do! It's just..."
    Sen Corruptus:"So we'll tag them too. In case of pedophiles. Your not a pedophile are you?"
    EI:"What?! No I just don't like..."
    Sen Corruptus:"We'll tag everyone so no one gets lost or tries to be a pedophile."
    EI:"That's wrong. You can't...."
    Sen Corruptus:"PEDOPHILE!!! TERRORIST SYMPATHISER!!! COMMUNIST!!! OFFICER TAKE HIM AWAY!!!!"
    EI:"Wait I......"
    Sen Corruptus:"Anyone else care to disagree? Good."

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
  61. (Another) Obligatory Simpsons quote by Rai · · Score: 1

    Homer: "If you don't start more making sense, we're gonna have to put you in a home. "

    Grandpa: "You already put me in a home!"

    Homer: "Then we'll put you in the crooked home we saw on 60 Minutes."

    Grandpa: "I'll be good."

  62. At last! by stealth.c · · Score: 1
    But it might be too little too late, several elderly persons have already been dragged away by soul-sucking mummies.

    If only this technology were available two years ago, Elvis wouldn't have had to go through all that trouble.

  63. Why by m1chael · · Score: 0

    not just put them on ice until there is a cure?

    --
    I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
  64. Nursing Home Tech by SteakandcheeseUm · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is not a new idea. I work at a nursing home in West Virginia (of all states) and we have been using a similar system (secureCare) for several years now. Generally, you attach an RFID to each confused resident and put these sensors on the doors. If the resident tries to push the door open, an alarm goes off in the nursing station. Everyone in managment is immediately paged with an alphanumeric message telling the resident name and the Exit taken. (this method is much cheaper than the aforementioned tracking system)
    Another new technology that is also being implimented are resident databases with touchpads that help nursing aids take care of residents. It lets nurses use their time more efficiently. (quite cool, they installed windows XP embedded LCD's every 5 yds in the halls)[Each resident has a mag card that the nurses aid takes and swipes to access the residents records]
    The nursing home also implimented a biometric ID system that allows employees to clock in and out.
    I really like working there and being around the neat technology.

    HOPE 5 r0x0rs

  65. Personal Opinion by Puny+Human+Nick · · Score: 1

    My grandfather on my mother's side used to live in a nursing home, and reading this story really makes me wish they had tried it out sooner, in all honesty. He had a very limited short and long term memory, and the doctors had no explanation for it other than "he's just getting old." A few years ago the nurse left the main door open and he walked out. We tried hiring a private investigator to find him, but nothing came up. So now, my only grandfather, is, to the government, missing and presumed dead. As big brotherish as this idea may sound, maybe if the consent of both the resident and his family is given, this could stop something like this from happening again...

    1. Re:Personal Opinion by zogger · · Score: 1

      geez that's dismal, I'm sorry for you and him. Really is a bad scene. I once had to call 9-11 to have the cops come and take care of this guy I found just totally confused at a quickstore. He had driven there, got his gas, and then completely forgot who he was, what he was doing, where he needed to go, etc, and he wasn't that old, nor did he appear drunk or stoned, just "lost" as you describe. He was actually crying. I felt helpless, and didn't want to like get his wallet and rifle through it looking for his identification or anything, because the way laws and people are now, although that was an obvious temporary solution, so I called the cops to do it, and waited until they got there.

      In the olden days, I don't think this happened as much, because of the way society was setup, people lived in extended family groups a lot more. They didn't send the kids to daycare or public school, and the elderly stayed home for their days. The people in the middle age brackets swapped off around the necessary work and watched over the very elderly/infirm and the very young and undeveloped/helpless. There was an obvious higher interest in maintaining care, and a higher caregiver to care recipient ratio, in that arrangement, family ties, love, etc.

      Perhaps, in some ways, the collective "we" have forgotten our lessons from the past and become less civilised. This article points out a technical solution, but is it truly a human and humane solution, or is it just a further extension of our over dependence on impersonal gadgetry?

      That gets into philosophy more than technical geekiness, but it's relevant to the discussion.

      I guess you could combine both techniques, the patient stays with the extended family, but they have a backup of the advanced technology to help with the task.

  66. And where is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And where is the sensor to track STAFF activities?

  67. The French Version will include core temp sensors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you're away for a month, without a care, get Granny's summer temperature on your WAP device.
    Should prevent a couple thousand funerals.

  68. Perimeter Security Alert by TrippyZ · · Score: 1

    And the next step will be a perimeter security field where if a resident tries to go outside it a sub skin syringe will activate and put them to sleep.

    Spooky.

  69. You, liar! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People are human

    I contest! If they were human, they wouldn't be in a "nursing home." In a "nursing home," you are a patient before you are a human or one of the people.

  70. You, liar! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My Dad is in a fairly advanced stage of dementia. He hardly talks, and no longer recognizes family. He is currently in long term care in a locked ward to keep him from wandering off.

    So, you admit that your "Dad" doesn't know what he's doing. But tell me, hypocritical "libertarian", is your "Dad" aware of it? Facts speak for themselves, young whipper-snapper!

    It would be a great danger to him if he was allowed to go where he wants.

    Ah-Ha! You confess your "Dad" is competent to go where he wants! He doesn't have Dimentia, after all!

    Currently, he can only leave if a family member comes and takes him for a walk. I did this today actually.

    Ah-Ha! Your "Dad" is competent and knows where he wants to travel! Evil: you are monitoring him that he doesn't go to the bank to get those Nigerian billions that he wouldn't will to you! You disrespectful child! I dis-own you! I shall not recognize you ever again! I shall not acknowledge your presence in this verry slashdot forum! And if I ever anticipate you to think thoughts about me or lock me up in a ward then I'll start wetting and shitting my pants every day, wander away as soon as you least expect, eat my food through my ears, and speak incomprehensibly about japanese snow monkies and water warts!

    PS: I feel your pain, this post was meant to be funny. I have friends and family that have worse scenarios...I mean the full plate of disorders that make Dimentia look like just another algebraic variable (if it ever was).

  71. warning, racist site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    that story seemed reasonable, until i looked at the site. it's about white nationalism. i mark it suspect.

    http://home.ddc.net/ygg/

    2. Politically Correct Racism (42)
    3. Resistance: Nationalism (15)
    4. The Jewish Role (32)
    9. The Culture Wars (11)

  72. Re:The French Version will include core temp senso by Guru2Newbie · · Score: 1
    Should prevent a couple thousand funerals.

    How? You mean if Granny's temp shows too high, you can phone her and tell her to:

    put on a tinfoil hat

    stop sunbathing in the road, get up off the pavement and go back inside

    wake up, take her head out of the oven, finish the cookies, and put her head in the freezer

    take a bath in icewater (hope she wakes up with both kidneys ;-)

    take a big Blue Squishy enema

    locate her will and write you in it?

  73. Check out Roujin Z anime on nursing robots by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    This anime grapples somewhat with the issue of the tension between the elderly needing complete care and automation being cheaper but impersonal. It made me think about the moral and social dimensions of the issue -- especially as, after all, even an elderly feeble senile person augmented by being hooked up to an internet connected AI nursebot is part of Vinge's singularity and could perhaps outthink and outcompete a normal unaugmented person. See: Roujin Z From that page: Roujin Z Plot Synopsis: "In the very near future in Japan, the number of elderly people is steadily rising, and it is becoming more and more difficult to care for them. This is of concern to the student nurse Haruko. You see, there is a government experiment with the goal of completely automated care of the elderly going on, and it just so happens that the test subject for the project is going to be Haruko's patient. The project, a bed that can do anything from bathe a patient to have a conversation with him, is a miracle of modern automation. Things get a little weird when the old man starts calling for help--using the bed's built in Internet connection. Well, Haruko and friends have no choice but to help the old man escape, but they're having a number of problems with that process. After a couple of failed attempts, the bed (yes, the bed) decides to take matters into it's own hands. You see, the bed starts thinking that it's the old man's dead wife, and doesnt like the way he's being treated. Yes, you read that right. To make matters worse, the bed was also a secret military experiment, and has capabilities to match. So we've got an automated elder care bed that thinks it's an old man's wife running away from the Ministry of Health and the military and wreaking havoc in the process, all the while carrying around an out of it old guy and being chased by some overzealous nursing students who are in turn being monitored by a crew of elderly hackers. Then things start getting really weird..."

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  74. So when we retire... by apillowofclouds · · Score: 1

    we'll wake up one day in a gated community to the following scene:

    "Who are you?"
    "The new number two."
    "Who's number one?"

  75. LOOK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She's fallen and can't get up!

  76. Alzheimers/Dementia Patients and Tracking by Wurm42 · · Score: 1

    My grandmother suffers from vascular dementia, one of several brain disorders common in the elderly that produces Alzheimers-like sympthoms- confusion, memory loss, etc. Most of the time, her condition can be controlled with medication, but when she gets bad, she can forget where she lives and even how to operate a touch-tone phone. During those periods, she needs to be monitored 24 hours a day for her own safety. Right now, this is done by family members or visiting nurses (at considerable expense) Sooner or later, my grandmother is going to have to move to an assisted living facility with a locked "memory ward," something everyone in the family dreads.

    I would hate to see this kind of tracking or monitoring technology imposed on the general population for all the usual Big Brother and civil liberties concerns. However, a system such as the Cloverwood facility in the article uses could be a godsend for my grandmother and the increasing number of elderly citizens with Alzheimers and other dementia disorders. Cameras and pendants are far less invasive (and potentially, far less expensive) than being followed around all day by a nursing aide. Used wisely, this technology could help elderly citizens with mental disorders stay independent and maintain their dignity for longer than is currently feasible.

    "Used wisely" is the key phrase here.

  77. You validate his point by Baldrson · · Score: 0, Troll
    that story seemed reasonable, until i looked at the site. it's about white nationalism. i mark it suspect.

    That comment fits with his point about retirement homes awaiting the boomers:

    The brutality and euthanasia carried out randomly against the Euro-Amercian elderly by nursing home staffs drawn from population groups trained to view us as oppressors, haters, and the racial enemy, will in practical effect serve the imperial government's interests by reducing its costs. Managements of these facilities will have a massive interest in hushing it up and spinning it out of existence, and while the rare instances of public exposure will call forth public investigations and promises of reform, nothing much will come of it because the inner party will not benefit.
  78. What they are really saying is... by javab0y · · Score: 1

    The system can track where residents are anywhere in the campus...

    Management speak: The system can track where inmates are anywhere in the cellblock...

  79. I'm reminded of a 1960's TV series, "The Prisoner" by LifesABeach · · Score: 0

    the prisoner, "who is number 1?".

    number 216, "you are number 6".

    so, who still says that t.v. isn't educational? :)