Mandrakesoft Releases 10.1 Beta1

Theanswriz42 writes "MandrakeSoft has announced the release of Mandrake Linux 10.1 Beta1 which is available from one of the many mirrors or from bittorrent. xorg is now the standard and there are many other changes from the previous version of Mandrake Linux. Screenshots are available here."

Comments

Mandrake is good

[Anonymous Coward]

Yay Linux, boo Microsoft.

There, I got half of the comments out of the way.

Re:Mandrake is good

[websaber]

Still as ugly as hell. I love mandrake for it's usability but when are they going to learn that looks matter. The three biggest "distributions" have the most resources put into looks (Apple, MS, and Redhat). Why dont they make a screenshot contest and then emulate the winner.

I like Mandrake...

[rdean400]

and I'll jump right on this one to get rid of XFree86.

Re:I like Mandrake...

[Anonymous Coward]

Good for you. By the way, I don't think anyone gives a shit what you like..

Re:I like Mandrake...

[rdean400]

Apparently you do, since you were stupid enough to respond.

Hope it fixes xfree problem

[Gyorg_Lavode]

I installed a xfree86 update a few days ago and my ibm thinkpad doesn't like it. I get black everything, (though a few things like text and some images pop up when moused over). tonight I guess I'll download this and hope the new X fork fixes it. And of course that the fact that it's beta doesn't break anything else.

Re:Hope it fixes xfree problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it actually mangled my config file. now I need to find where urpmi backed up the config file to. Though I guess I'll also just try to get xorg running while I'm at it.

Am downloading to have a look...

[rokzy]

...even though I prefer SUSE over Mandrake by far.
I always get excited about new releases. Linux's constantly increasing numbers make me feel like things are always getting better, which is usually the case.

By contrast, every new MS release makes me scared about what they're sneaking in this time - activation, DRM, Trusted Computing...

Re:Am downloading to have a look...

[AliasTheRoot]

but the numbers get bigger in Windows too!

3 -> 95 -> 2000 -> XP!

(XP is Roman for really huge)

Re:Am downloading to have a look...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this insightful?

"I am downloading something I wont use to take a look even though I wont use it but while i'm posting about the non event about me downloading something, here's some polemic about a completely unrelated product."

Re:Am downloading to have a look...

[rokzy]

maybe the insightful part is where I hinted at linux, being open source, forkable and being developed for its own sake rather than profit, inspires trust in its users and optimism about the future.

whereas MS's new releases mostly serve just to extract more money and force non-uninstallable software on users which would otherwise never be touched.

sure this is all just my opinion. maybe other people don't feel content using something that didn't cost hundreds of $currency. but if you take away opinions there isn't much left in life.

Re:Am downloading to have a look...

[Tassach]

What part of "well regulated" is so hard to understand?

It's easy to understand: when speaking of a body of troops, "regulated" means "trained, equipped, and disciplined". What, you thought it meant "buried under bureaucratic regulations"? Guess again. Common usage of the English language has changed a bit since 1789. Read the Federalist Papers and the founding fathers' intent will be clear. In Federalist #29, the definitive explanation of the nature of the militia, the phrase "well-regulated" is used interchangably and synonomously with the phrase "well-trained". Indeed, Federalist 29 speaks directly to the dangers of over-regulation:

The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious, if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, or even a week, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well-regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people, and a serious public inconvenience and loss. It would form an annual deduction from the productive labor of the country, to an amount which, calculating upon the present numbers of the people, would not fall far short of the whole expense of the civil establishments of all the States. To attempt a thing which would abridge the mass of labor and industry to so considerable an extent, would be unwise: and the experiment, if made, could not succeed, because it would not long be endured. Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped; and in order to see that this be not neglected, it will be necessary to assemble them once or twice in the course of a year.

The intent and meaning and intent of the Second Amendment is crystal clear. No amount of revisionist history will change the fact that the intent of the founding fathers was that every citizen who was capable of defending the country should, at his own expense, obtain the skills and equipment necessary to do so. It is not only the right of a citizen to arm and equip himself, it is his civic duty to do so.

Re:Am downloading to have a look...

[Anonymous Coward]

i fucked your mom in the ass, there was a lot of shit there.

Mandrake Impresses Me...

[Tiberius_Fel]

As a user of MS products all the way from MS-DOS to Windows XP, I must say that Mandrake (10.0) greatly impressed me when I loaded it, and it continues to do so. Kudos to MandrakeSoft for making such a great product, and I'm glad that they're making it better all the time. :-)

I look forward to trying out 10.1 beta....

Re:Mandrake Impresses Me...

[Anonymous Coward]

You Fail It!!!1

Re:Mandrake Impresses Me...

[Anonymous Coward]

You fail "you fail it"ing. Would you like to play again?

Re:Mandrake Impresses Me...

[nebulus4]

I have to agree I was also impressed with Mandrake 10.0, not to mention I finally got all my speakers to work properly. But sadly enough, I have always had some issues with installer (prior to 10.0), mostly it overwrote my MBR and then asked me if I wanted to install LILO somewhere else, which I actually did. 10.0 on the other hand didn't have this issue, though this time I wasn't be able to create boot diskette. Not really a problem, because I always have Knoppix CD around, but still kind of bugs me. Let's hope 10.1 will be a perfect one ;)

Re:Mandrake Impresses Me...

[Afrosheen]

You can't make a single boot floppy with kernel 2.6.x, it's just too large. That's why Mandrake doesn't include it as an option in 10.1. However, there is a cd boot image in the images folder on the disc sets and on the mirrors, you can use this to boot up just fine.

2.6 adds features and size, a double-edged sword..but then again, floppies need to be deprecated anyway.

Re:Mandrake Impresses Me...

[jimicus]

As a user of Mandrake products all the way from 8.0 to 10, please bear in mind that, like many distro betas, Mandrake's aren't always terribly reliable.

Don't be too disappointed if the shiny new beta has issues which make it a non-starter for you.

Re:Mandrake Impresses Me...

[Wog]

Agreed.

I've been a heavy user of MS products since 3.1, and have toyed with Linux on home server and desktop setups.

Mandrake 10 was the first distro that had no trouble with the hardware on my laptop. After changing one boot option to enable ACPI and get sound working, it was flawless.

I now dual-boot XP and Mandrake on my laptop, and it's great. I'm learning quickly as I use Linux, and at this point I only keep XP around for games and work -- My Samsung VI660 USB phone doesn't seem to like Linux, and I can't seem to find drivers for it.

Re:Mandrake Impresses Me...

[bhtooefr]

Try SPH-A660. That's the REAL model number.

I found this auction for a data cable for it, and it said it would work with Linux. BTW, what are you using the data cable for? Contact transfer, or internet access? Seeing as the A660 ISN'T a camera phone, it wouldn't be that...

Re:Mandrake Impresses Me...

[bhtooefr]

Oh, and something you should know if you're using it as a modem - When we got our Vision phone, we asked about it, and the salesperson said that you can find cables to do it online, but if Sprint ever calls and asks whether you've been using the phone as a modem, and you say yes, your phone and account is blacklisted from Vision forever. Say no, and you're safe. Just something you should know...

Re:Mandrake Impresses Me...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to agree... Mandrake 10 was the first distro I got my wife (a non-techie type) to use day to day. She dual boots with XP, for occastional websites that need IE, etc (note to self: I've got to get IE running under WINE one of these days), but complains about it untill she can reboot back into linux.

She loves Mozilla/Firefox and their respective mail clients, does just fine with OpenOffice, and loves that there are 10,000 usefull little apps that are included right on the distro discs (like JuK, for example).

She's learning how to configure everything on her desktop now, and is suprised how much more control you have over it than in Windows.

Her favorite feature (and mine as well) is the improved security and stability (virtually ad/spy/mal-ware and virus free).

Anyways, my long way of saying great job to the Mandrake team...

Re:Mandrake Impresses Me...

[Wog]

Thanks for the info!

I'm aware of the rule. I bought the phone because the rep told me I could connect through vision with my laptop. I called Sprint when I read about users getting in trouble for it, and chewed them out royally for not telling their reps to lay off. I told them that I'd renewed my contract and bought the phone based on that info. This got me escalated all the way to the manager (who was on his way out of the office).

He explained the situation... that they can't let people willy-nilly use it, because the networks can't support it yet. However, they'd advertised connectivity as a selling point, and the service *is* supposed to be unlimited. He said that they pretty much look the other way if the use is light. He said 30 megs a month, but others online tell me that nobody noticed until they started getting close to the 1GB per month range.

Me? I use it three days a week, for slashdot, mail, and IM, and probably stay under 40 megs a week. No problems so far.

Re:Mandrake Impresses Me...

[bhtooefr]

I've been using it with ReqWireless WebViewer (the trial version, too) to visit /. Of course, I get craploads of "Malformed response message" errors, and the A660 can only handle about 50K of data with the WebViewer trial (or is it a hard-coded limit in WebViewer?)

Re:Mandrake Impresses Me...

[ANTRat]

i use FireFox!

Re:Mandrake Impresses Me...

[bhtooefr]

And what does that have to do with anything? Firefox doesn't run on a cellphone. Opera doesn't run on a J2ME cellphone (and Sprint doesn't have any Symbian phones). WebViewer is the only choice if all you've got is a J2ME phone to get HTML.

Cue jokes re: 'precious bodily fluids'

[Anonymous Coward]

Ripper:

I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women... women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake, but I do deny them my essence.

Mandrake:

Heh heh... yes.

FB= First Bug!! (ipod mini and 4g ipod)

[VC]

Ipod mini and 4g ipods, the cool ones with no buttons, dont mount under the new mdk kernel. :-) ive got to boot into knoppix to update songs.

Other than that, mandrake rocks. viva la mandrake.

(its bug 10619 if anyone cares..)

Re:FB= First Bug!! (ipod mini and 4g ipod)

[VC]

Actually, i posted the bug. Posting bugs is good for mandrake cause it makes the product better. I like mandrake, hence the viva la mandrake, and finally, only cowards post anonymously.

Coward.

Re:FB= First Bug!! (ipod mini and 4g ipod)

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

People wouldn't say "Hey, no bugs!" if they used software that had a no-bug-reporting policy.

Because there would be bugs everywhere.

Re:FB= First Bug!! (ipod mini and 4g ipod)

[Anonymous Coward]

YHBT dumbass

Re:FB= First Bug!! (ipod mini and 4g ipod)

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you're a fucking idiot.

It's not a problem...

[absurdist]

...it's XFree86's way of going into mourning following the idiotic license change that caused every distro to drop them like a hot rock.

jaj mandrake

[GooDieZ]

Something nice to do over weekend, trying out the new beta on test machine.

The nicest thing about all that? well when it becomes Release 10.1 you just update sources and wait for urpmi to end rpming...

Done this since MDK 8.2, no new CD installs just update. Now MS beat that

To hell with Karma spoilers...

Re:jaj mandrake

[NineNine]

well when it becomes Release 10.1 you just update sources and wait for urpmi to end rpming...

What in the hell does that mean?

Re:jaj mandrake

[opkool]

Programs in Mandrake came in the form of "rpm-packages"

Those rpm-packages are mirrored in ftp servers around the world.

A ftp server that mirrors Mandrake rpm-packages, also contains an "index file" (hdlist.cz) with meta-information about those packages.

A ftp server with Mandrake rpm-packages plus this "index file" is called a "package source" in "Mandrake speak"

From Mandrake Control Center, you can configure "rpmdrake/urpmi" to install packages from a "package source", pretty much like Debian uses apt-get and FedoraCore uses Yum.

"rpmdrake/urpmi" are: the core "classic rpm" plus perl scripts that solve "dependency hell" . One (rpmdrake) is a GUI tool, the other (urpmi) is the text-based tool under rpmdrake's hood.

To Upgrade a Mandrake from version n to n+1, go to Mandrake Control Center, change rpm-package sources so now point to new Mandrake release, and then, do a "update packages" to upgrade all packages and end with new Mandrake version.

I hope this makes clear what he said..

Peace!

Yum Frontend

[dduardo]

Mandrake has done a good job based on what I saw in the screenshots. The only thing I think they should add is a frontend to Yum. Although there is probable plenty of software on the cd, not everything is going to be there. Perhaps if the user downloads an RPM from the net and double click it, yum starts up, parses the filename and installs all the dependences associated with the program. If Mandrake can pull that off i'll be very impressed and have more reason to suggest it for friends. Unfortunely, you won't be checking me running mandrake anytime soon. I've already been sold on Gentoo.

Re:Yum Frontend

[PuppiesOnAcid]

Seeing as how you use Gentoo, I'm sure you're very aware that the install-dependencies-automagically thing is very feasable. Hopefully Mandrake, and other distros, will take note of Gentoo in the future and continue to build more onto their great distros.

Re:Yum Frontend

[Theanswriz42]

Mandrake does have something similar, and IMO better called URPMI.

Re:Yum Frontend

[dduardo]

I know it's feasible, but there are no good frontends for old granny to easily install software.

Re:Yum Frontend

[GooDieZ]

Well guess what, that has benn done in version 9 allready. Just click on rpm and installer pops up, asks what to do, checks dependancies, downloads dependancys and installs the whole fun ;)

Just in case you might be interested, it works also in browser if you clik on a rpm on web/ftp server

Re:Yum Frontend

[AliasTheRoot]

granny should emerge -uD world like the rest of us.

Re:Yum Frontend

[KeyserDK]

mdk doesnt use Yum, but urpmi.

Just associate 'gurpmi' with the mime type for RPM in your favorite web browser.

Re:Yum Frontend

[Afrosheen]

I don't know what you consider good, but rpmdrake and kpackage are both included and both dead simple to use.

Re:Yum Frontend

[dduardo]

Why isn't this done by default then?

I haven't used mandrake in I don't know how many years. I'm just asking questions so people in the open source community realize the little things need to change to make it much easier to use Linux.

Re:Yum Frontend

[opkool]

Errr, you are miss-informed.

In my Mandrakelinux 10.0-Oficial:

I just opened the file browser (konqueror), clicked on a src.rpm (source rpm) icon, I got a GUI dialog that asked for root password and then I got a dialog that asked me:

------QUOTE----------
You have selected a source package: /home/opkool/Downloads/bzip2-1.0.2-18mdk.src.rpm

You probably didn't want to install it on your computer (installing it
would allow you to make modifications to its sourcecode then compile it).

What would you like to do?

[Do nothing] [Yes, really install it] [Save file]
------END QUOTE----------

As you see, it was a source-rpm. And it gave me a proper answer. That is what I call good configuration.

Mandrake has the expected behaviour by default, as my installation is 99.999% original & official.

Peace!

Re:Yum Frontend

[pllewis]

go URPMI. This is the one reason that I still stick with mandrake over suse. URPMI is great. Add a little plf to the mix, and your all set. I get 95% of what I need via urpmi. # urpmi mplayer # urpmi freevo DONE!!!! updates # urpmi.update -a # urpmi --auto-select Other then the x.org thing, doesn't look any different then my 10 distro. Never been a big fan of apt-get for rpm based disto's. I've had a couple of bad sources that have really screwed up my system. To configure urpmi, I go to http://easyurpmi.zarb.org, select my distro, choose my source/updates and I don't touch my cd's for software again. From what I've heard, SUSE may be going the way of urpmi soon. They've got beta's out there and source directories.

Re:Yum Frontend

[LibrePensador]

This might be "interesting" in an interesting sort of way, but is certainly uninformed. Urpmi existed way before yum and is at this stage more mature.

As far as clicking on an rpm and installing and resolving dependencies automatically, that also has been the default behavior for a long time.

Re:Yum Frontend

[LibrePensador]

Nonsense.

Granny can either go to the Control Center to install software with a pretty GUI or double click on an rpm and watch a pretty GUI open.

And by the way, Granny does not install software. She calls good old grandson who connects remotely from home while asking Granny how the cat's doing and installs the app before she can say "come over for some chocolate cookies".

Dude, stop spreading disinformation. It is not helping anyone.

Re:Yum Frontend

[Anonymous Coward]

> Yum Frontend

Was that the obilgatory Simpson's quote?

Re:Yum Frontend

[Stevyn]

Man, you're lucky. URPMI gave me such headaches. It rarely had an up to date package which forced me to compile from scratch and face dependency hell. The list of apps was also limited. URPMI is great if you don't mind settling for old and only popular packages. Mandrake is easy to install, but a pain to maintain. I recommend people look at other distros if Mandrake is their first flavor of linux and they get fed up with it.

Re:Yum Frontend

[pllewis]

I think that it is all in where you get your packages from. When I messed up fedora with apt-get, I had added in an unreliable source to try and get the packages I needed. I've been pretty lucky with mandrake. I found some really good source sites and have not had dependency issues. Also found most of what I need. Still waiting on an update for freevo however. xmltv is out of date.

Also available...

[jaf1230]

At http://www.cheaplinux.org/. We burn so you don't have to.

Re:Why is this frontpage news ?

[rokzy]

I don't remember you bitching about beta MS Service Packs making front page?

Upgrading using URPMI

[MAXOMENOS]

Anyone know how to upgrade using URPM(I/E/etc.) alone?

Re:Upgrading using URPMI

[crimson_alligator]

1.urpmi.removemedia -a
2.go to http://urpmi.org/easyurpmi/index.php and set up sources for the release you want to upgrade to
3.urpmi --auto-select --force

done, but if you want a new kernel
4.urpmi kernel (pick the one you want)
5.reboot

Re:Upgrading using URPMI

[MAXOMENOS]

Very much appreciated!

Re:Upgrading using URPMI

[GooDieZ]

update sources via:
http://urpmi.org/easyurpmi/index.php

to let the magic happen just type:
urpmi --auto-select

Re:Upgrading using URPMI

[Afrosheen]

Yeah, it's pretty easy and well documented all over the place.

You use the software sources manager, uncheck your current sources first, then add new sources for 10.x. First thing you do from the commandline is 'urpmi urpmi' then 'urpmi --auto-select'. You may have to make some choices along the way but eventually you'll end up with 10.x. Don't forget to 'urpmi kernel' also, as it may not update you to the newest one (which is a failsafe built into urpmi).

Re:Upgrading using URPMI

[arose]

Use easy urpmi to select cooker sources. You may also might to "rpm --import" the GPG signatures found in the cooker tree (I don't remember which directory). After that just "urpmi --auto-select".

Seems to work quite good, but for some reason I can't intall galeon or epiphany.

Re:Upgrading using URPMI

[opkool]

Don't do this!

A safer way [Note 1]:

1. Exit graphical environment and go to console (Ctrl-Alt-F1)
2. login as root and switch to runlevel 3 (telinit 3)
3. urpmi.removemedia -a
4. go to http://urpmi.org/easyurpmi/index.php and set up sources for the release you want to upgrade to
5. urpmi --test urpmi (test if urpmi's upgrade works) [Note 2]
6. urpmi urpmi (if you get no errors in previous step)
7. urpmi --auto --auto-select --test (we want to make sure upgrade will work. If you have non-official rpms, this could cause trouble. Write down offending rpms/files, remove them and try again) [Note 3]
8. urpmi --auto --auto-select
9. urpmi kernel
10. reboot

[Note 1] This could not work if:
* you have used "--force" before to install packages
* you install rpms from untrusted origin
* you install rpms not specific for Mandrake
* you install with "./configure && make && make install" instead of using "./configure && make && checkinstall"

[Note 2]: the --test option is great because:

i. it downloads all needed rpm-packages
ii. it tests the installation and provide quite clear error messages
iii. it does *not* delete downloaded rpm-packages
iv. it does *not* change your current programs.
v. when happy and you do not use "--test", as all the packages are already downloaded, your upgrade takes less time.

[Note 3]: If you get a message like "Packge foobar cannot be installed because it conflicts with file /usr/lib/foo-bar-0.1.2.so.3", remove the package with offending file. Which package contains offending file? Type "rpm -qf /usr/lib/foo-bar-0.1.2.so.3" and remove the package with "urpme offendingpackage". After completing the upgrade, install new version of package with "urpmi offendingpackage" if needed/

Peace!
(upgrading Mandrake with urpmi since 8.1)

Re:Upgrading using URPMI

[shfted!]

Wow... thank you so much! I had no idea you could do a live update with Mandrake... which was the biggest reason I ended up going with the hassle of Gentoo. I will try this tonight!

Re:Upgrading using URPMI

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, linux really IS ready for the desktop! That was so much easier than "click here for windows update".

Re:Upgrading using URPMI

[tunjin]

Last time I tried to upgrade my win98SE to winXP using windows update it just did not work ;-7

But I'm sure YOU can post some insightful instructions on how to do it...

Re:Upgrading using URPMI

[opkool]

Wow, linux really IS ready for the desktop! That was so much easier than "click here for windows update"

1. your "windows update" only does bugfixing

2. You have one-click "MandrakeUpdate" for bug-fixing

3. The above mentioned steps are meant to upgrade the whole OS + programs to its newest version, on a live system. It's not easy-peasy because you are potentially updating +8,000 programs.

4. You cannot upgrade from Windows 2000 to Windows 2003, plus all your programs installed in a "Windows Computer" using Windows Update.

5. Of course, you can reboot the PC with CD-1 from new version, choose upgrade existing Linux... and, tah-dah! you upgrade with half-a-dozen mouse-clicks. That's as easy as it gets, but then, you need to bring your system down during the upgrade.

Peace!

Vicious revenue cycle.

[base3]

Mandrake, just as much as the commercial players, needs to keep releasing updates to generate sales. This cycle contributes to an endless cycle of pointless minor updates and feature bloat.

Re:Vicious revenue cycle.

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandrake releases like this because most of their releases are buggy. 10.0 included. Plus, there isn't much of "feature bloat" in Mandrake...it still runs on machines that ran releases from a few years back.

Huh!

[adun]

I didn't know crap had revision numbers.

Re:Huh!

[Anonymous Coward]

here's a revision number of crap for you:

version 127187 of adun

That is some serious crap.

WTF?

[acceleriter]

"just as much as the commerical players?" Mandrake is a commercial player. Back under your bridge, troll!

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandrake is a commercial player.

Actually it's not.

Re:WTF?

[Afrosheen]

No, seriously, Mandrake is one of the top 4. Redhat, SuSE, Mandrake, and Debian, in that order. Any company big enough to sell corporate support packages makes it into my book as Commercial Player..and don't forget the Shuttle mini pc's that ship with Mandrake.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

and don't forget the Shuttle mini pc's that ship with Mandrake.

Wow! A single distributer actually bundles Mandrake with their hardare? Amazing. Wait... nevermind. Your ordering is way wrong. Redhat, Debian, Mandrake, then Suse is the correct order of the most installed distros.

P.S. No body likes you and we all think you smell funny.

Re:WTF?

[Afrosheen]

Not sure why I'm wasting time with an AC troll but Debian is far from commercial and is included in my top 4 for the simple fact that it has a large installation base, and I ordered them according to 'perceived user base'.

And how many other distros have you seen packaged with ANYTHING? When's the last time you bought a Soyo motherboard or a Dell laptop with a copy of SuSE? Never. That's why it's an accomplishment. Get an account so people can mod you to zero instead of starting with it, jerk.

Re:WTF?

[opkool]

Not only Shuttle.

Compaq^H^H^H^H^H HP and Carrefour ship computers with Mandrake Linux installed.

Peace!

Awe Damn

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not even done downloading 10.0 Official over my Dad's 56K modem! Tell them to slow down!

Re:Awe Damn

[bhtooefr]

Actually, I'm running 10.0 Community. I BitTorrented it over a nice fat 2.5Mb/500Kb cable pipe, but I never got around to downloading 10.0 Official. Besides, my 4.3GB dedicated /home HDD would hate me for ANOTHER 2GB download (and I've got other ISOs in there, so it wouldn't fit w/o deleting 10.0 Community's ISOs).

Re:Why is this frontpage news ?

[darin3200]

Yeh, but that's Microsoft. Anything that can possibly help with security for Windows is front page news. This however, isn't. Mandrake switched to X.org. Who cares? Nearly every major distro has switched already and it doesn't make slashdot. X.org isn't at all different from Xfree except a license agreement.

Re:Why is this frontpage news ?

[embsysdev]

Better question: Why is this a beta? "Of course we have left some bugs inside, you will be pleased not to report the gorgious kernel panic at the end of installation..."

Re:Why is this frontpage news ?

[Anonymous Coward]

>Anything that can possibly help with security for Windows is front page news.

so why doesn't an improving alternative OS count?

Re:You know

[absurdist]

No, No... you're thinking of Damien.

Re:You know

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you're thinking of fucking your sister.

Dup

[HRbnjR]

Here is the last discussion, in case anyone wants to read it :)

Nevermind [Re:Dup]

[HRbnjR]

Nevermind, I'm dumb. I was thinking of this, which I read two days ago. And I should look more carefully at my search results :P

Re:Nevermind [Re:Dup]

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. You are pretty dumb. (_o_) <========(_(_

Desktop

[c0dedude]

I've been using SuSE for a while, but am thinking of switching. What would you all say is the best linux for the desktop as of now?

Re:Desktop

[Chuck Bucket]

Gentoo, hands down the best desktop linux IMO, YMMV. Before you dis it, try it.

(and then eat it, your words that is)

CCB

Re:Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Why try it? I don't need to run Gentoy to know all Gentoy "users" are wannabe asshats.

Re:Desktop

[jimicus]

The one which does what you want it to.

Re:Desktop

[LibrePensador]

Why are you thinking of switching? That is the key question.

Mandrake 10 is very, very good. My only qualm with it has been PMCIA support for Wifi cards. Other than, it is very fast and very stable.

It's multimedia "readiness" is superb.

Google for easy urpmi, then add plf and contrib repositories and you have thousands of applications at your fingertips.

urpmi libdvdcss

After that, getting DVDs to play out of the box is as easy as putting a DVD in the drive.

Getting mplayer installed with all the fancy codecs is as easy as:

urpmi gui-mplayer.

Urpmi knows to get mplayer and all the funky win32 proprietary codecs. The key is to set up plf and contrib.

Have fun

Re:Desktop

[jonadab]

I did try Gentoo, and the experience was informative, but ultimately I came
back to Mandrake. It's slightly more of a pain with Mandrake to install
bleeding edge stuff (except for major apps like Mozilla, which are both easy
and straightforward), and you spend slightly more time hunting down where
the distribution puts things, but I found that for me, Gentoo outweighed its
advantages in those areas with some disadvantages of its own.

Foremost, things just aren't as well integrated with Gentoo, in terms of the
way things are set up. I think this mostly has to do with configuration --
sure,you have to reconfigure things with any distro to match your preferences,
but with distros like Mandrake, the initial state is that the various
components are all set up to interact well with one another. With Gentoo,
I had some trouble getting things to play nicely with one another.

I expected Gentoo to solve dependency hell for me; it doesn't. In more than
one case I had to manually track down packages that were causing emerge to
fail, and individually install (or uninstall!) them. In one case I had to
hunt all over the internet and eventually find that in order to emerge world
I had to first uninstall certain core Perl modules. That should never be.
This is different from the situation in Mandrake, but IMO it's not better.

It was also not always obvious what package I had to install to get a certain
thing. I had an horrific time figuring out how to install the themes for
Gnome. With Mandrake, this is not a problem.

Mandrake has its problems, sure. It's not the most secure distro, and
there can be problems if you only want to upgrade some components and not
others. (For example, if you want to keep Gnome 1.4, you'll have some
very significant problems installing newer apps like Inkscape. On my home
system I've given up and upgraded to Mandrake 9.2 and Gnome 2.x for this
reason, even though I strongly prefer Gnome 1.4 over 2.x, because I felt
the need to be able to run modern apps.) And like I said you can sometimes
encounter issues tracking down where Mandrakesoft chooses to put things.
The initscripts are less than altogether simple, and stuff like that.

But everything *works*. Well, once you make certain configuration adjustments,
like replacing metacity with sawfish, then everything works. With Gentoo I
had more trouble getting sundry things set up.

I did learn a lot from using Gentoo, though. I'd recommend anyone with even
a moderate interest in peeking under the hood should experiment with Gentoo
for at least a month. I'm glad I did. But I find that with Mandrake I spend
less time fussing with the configuration and more time getting stuff done, or
reading slashdot.

Re:Desktop

[Chuck Bucket]

Wow, I really appreciate your answer, thanks for taking the time. I agree, integration, things just "working together" are always more complete in Mandrake or SuSE (which some use at my work) but I actually enjoy the challenges of Gentoo, hunting down problems and fixing them. Portage isn't without it's (sometimes major) quirks, that's for sure. Witness the time I did an 'emerge world' on my build server, only to have it break ssh. Ok, it didn't break it, but after the emerge it wouldn't allow ssh connections until I did the etc-update! I didn't expect that, I did a world and planned on etc-update later, VIA ssh!

My background comes from Red Hat 5.1 -> Mandrake (till bout 8) -> Slackware -> Gentoo. And speaking of things that just work together, you could say the same for Slackware with Dropline Gnome, very nicely done. Anyway, thanks for the informed response and not the "shutup fanboy" or "asshat" respnse as above! :)

PCB#

Not being snuck in...

[nurb432]

Rather with all the press Microsoft gets, we pretty much know all the 'extras' they are giving us each release..

We often don't have as much info about the latest and greatest Linux distro release...

And yes I know you can 'use the source', but really, who has time to audit their OS + tools + apps ? ( or how many users even would understand what they are reading, written in several different languages, and millions of lines of code.. )

That being said, I also trust that something sinister will be caught, by someone.. Hopefully its not mis-guided trust.

3.141

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you want to do? If you want simplicity stick with SuSE. If you want to mess with Linux itself, and not extra distro crap, go with Slackware. If you want to compile everything go with Gentoo. If you want to compile everything but just don't find Gentoo to be all that appealing and you want a more Slackware like experience do Linux From Scratch. If you don't want a lot of distro crap, but want package management, go with Debian.

Be a little more specific. Best Linux desktop for what?

Re:3.141

[G3ckoG33k]

So, reading between the lines:

1. Do you want "distro-optimized" software?
Yes - 2
No - 4

2. Do you like
Gnome - Fedora
KDE - 3

3. Do you like
Rock Solid - SuSE
Latest'n'Greatest - Mandrake

4. Do you like to compile?
No - 5
Yes - 6

5. Do you have a good overview when to
update your system's software for
bugfixes etc?
Yes - Slackware
No - Debian

6. Do you have a good overview of when to
update your system's software for
bugfixes etc?
Yes - Linux from Scratch
No - Gentoo

===============

So, is this key "wrong" or too simplified? I am sure someone will tell us.

Emotional Release

[soloport]

I always thought that version number was simply an emoticon: Wincing while sticking out their tongue at the world.

:P XP :P XP :P

A beta

[Akimotos]

From France? Does anyone know if the garlic is included?

Re:A beta

[Walrusss]

Even if you are just discovering that it is a french distro (which is the case since it started couple of years ago), I think it is not (included. the garlic).

For the fun of it, it would be better if there was a bottle of red wine included.

1st 10 OS version?

[otisg]

Is this the first OS to go beyond version 10? I know there is MacOS X, but that's kind of randomly chosen name (more than a version number), no?

Re:1st 10 OS version?

[templest]

Actually, it is a version number. :-/
If I'm not mistaken the latest one is OS X 10.4?

Re:Why are no news like this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not anyone on slashdot is running only Microsoft (yes, really!), maybe some people are interested.

Hell, i don't care about every Microsoft Virus and Updates, or others apps which run MS-only, yet i don't complain on slashdot, because i know most people here are MS customers. Is it too hard for you to understand ?

DUPE!

[JollyFinn]

And old news from thursday!
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?si d=04/08/05/ 1442252&tid=147&tid=218

Re:1st 10 OS version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mac OSX is version 10 (X). The old OS stopped at version 9.

HP-UX is on version 11.

10.1 is still version 10.

They're just the first to releasse a beta.

Slackware and RedHat (if you count Fedora) are at version 10 working on new betas.

SuSE is still on version 9.

there is no best

[poptones]

I've tried lots of distros in the last months. in fact, I've spent so much free time reinstalling linux I started to feel like it was my only hobby. I do lots of video and music stuff but have little need for office apps unless I'm working on a proposal or resume or something, so I can't tell you the difference between koffice and ooo. What I can tell you is that mandrake seems to have the best ootb experience of them all and it's the one I keep going back to. In fact, it's finally so good my windows partition sees me only when I have to "go back in" to recover some other little piece fo data I forgot to migrate. Once these visits become so infrequent I no longer care, windows is history in my house for good.

Suse has a great rep and it's a gorgeous ootb install (an order of magnitude better than Mandrakes, I think) - but, then again, tvtime doesn't work worth a damn in Suse on my machine and I've actually had the entire kde desktop lock up so hard when using a USB drive that I had to press reset. Mandrake 10 has had none of these troubles, and it's well supported (as far as software) by the plf, so that's where I stay.

Re:Why are no news like this news?

[Donny Smith]

I don't care about every MS update or security incident either, but most such news are created by /. readers who rejoice over every Microsoft failure. That's sad, too.

Would news about the final release be newsworthy?
Perhaps.
Is news about Beta 1 newsworthy? I just can't see why would it be.

Re:Screenshots?

[dcstimm]

are you an idiot, its screenshots of mandrake linux booting up and on the desktop.. Please look at the pictures before posting.

Please report your problems

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope you have reported this on http://qa.mandrakesoft.com ? Maybe it can be fixed for final release.

Re:Screenshots?

[PuppiesOnAcid]

The screenshots appear to be screenshots of KDE and the mandrake installer.

Don't bother with the screenshots

[Hooded One]

If you've seen Mandrake before, there's nothing new for you. I looked through all of them, and the first half or so of the screenshots were of the installer, followed by the first-run stuff, and the Mandrake Control Center categories. The only new thing I noticed was a user survey, and possibly some changes to the first-run wizards. There was one shot of Konqueror, but other than that no shots of running applications.

If you've never seen Mandrake before, you might want to go ahead and look, but for anybody else it's pretty much a waste of time. Plus it's hell on LinuxBeta's servers.

That said, a quick question for anybody who has installed this beta: Does Mandrake still use devfs, or have they finally moved to udev? That was one of my disappointments when I tried 10 Community.

Re:Don't bother with the screenshots

[typobox43]

The user survey was in 10.0 Community... although it may only run on new installations, I'm not sure.

Re:Ohhh, Mandrake Linux!

[sjoel]

You must be running a commodore 64 or something. A lot of mainstream hardware is supported. However, this is a BETA release.

Re:Why is this frontpage news ?

[Anonymous Coward]

it's because 2.6.8-rc2 is very buggy, they are currently making a new version based on a future version...

Dual boot fix?

[jlseagull]

As I recall, the Mandrake 10.0 versions (both community and release) will try and "fix" the MBR and partition table if it sees a Windows XP install on the same drive as the Mandrake install. This results in a broken Windows install - this issue was minimized on the dev lists and wasn't fixed in the release version.

Blew away the MBR and almost had to reinstall until I found the "dd" trick that allows you to rewrite it.

In any case, I fixed it by partitioning manually and loading from the NTLDR in Windows.

See here for a description of the same problem with FC2, here for a description of how to make a dual-boot system with problem work. Lastly, see here for the skinny from Mandrake themselves.

Of course, one should always have backups of any and all valuable data, but it's still a pain to bring a system back from the undead.

Still haven't fixed the control center

[Anonymous Coward]

They still haven't fixed the stupid 10 control center, where when you select a category all the other categories disappear, leaving users only with the poorly marked "back" button at the bottom. What was wrong with the category system like YaST?

Re:Still haven't fixed the control center

[Richard_J_N]

Good point, but I think this was a design choice. I doubt they'll want to re-do the entire design of the control centre, but your point about the "poorly marked" button is a good one. Have you filed a bug on it?

Re:1st 10 OS version?

[Anonymous Coward]

MacOS X is at 10.3.4 (Panther)

MacOS 10.4 (Tiger) ships next year.

Beta Fatigue

[Anonymous Coward]

I have used ( & loved ) Linux off & on for 12 years but recently I switched to Mac beause frankly I got burn't out by the constant beta state & contiunal change.

Putting aside the politics, sometimes one needs things to just work so one can attend all the other things called 'a life' ahem...

Well, they both are included

[imr]

$ urpmq -y garlic
garlic
$ urpmq -i garlic
Name : garlic
Version : 1.4
Release : 1mdk
Group : Sciences/Chemistry
Size : 2197558 Architecture: i586
Summary : Free molecular viewer and editor

And of course,
urpmq -y wine
libwine1
libwine1-capi
libwine1-devel
lib wine1-twain
linuxconf
wine
wine-utils
xwine

Cheers, from Paris.

Version numbers

[screwedcork]

Is it just me, or does Mandrakesoft practice rather extreme version number inflation?

Re:Ohhh, Mandrake Linux!

[mabinogi]

> back to windows.

Fantastic!

Just a shame my soundcard/modem/ethernet/graphics cards arent supported at all.

Ho-hum, back to Linux.

Mandrake disappointed me.

[DJ_Perl]

I upgraded my Dell Inspiron 5150 from Mandrake 9.2 to Mandrake 10. The first few things I noticed upon upgrading were:

1. Previously working network configuration was trashed. Network connectivity foobarred.
2. Previously working Logitech cordless keyboard and mouse stopped working.
3. Mozilla wouldn't launch, and kept telling me that a profile was already in use.

Come on, people. How hard is it to ship a distro without glaring fuckups?

Linux geeks easily dismiss people who find Linux difficult to use as lusers, luddites, neo-phobes. That keeps us from the realization that there really isn't a single Linux distro that is easy enough for your Grandma to use. ( Counterexamples to this are exceptions, rather than norm. )

Join me in this thought experiment --

1. Boot up Linux.
2. Close your eyes.
3. Decide that you're a person with minimal technical knowledge.
4. Open your eyes and look at the screen afresh, as if for the first time.
5. Ask, "What am I looking at?"
6. Without presuming any Linux knowledge, try to do a simple thing, such as read the news on CNN. Where's a browser? How many steps does it take to get to the browser? Start->Network->WWW->Browsers->Mozilla

Why can't Linux be easier and reach more people? We have to stop being condescending to Joe DontKnow, and make Linux easy for him. This is where Microsoft ( and Apple ) kicks Linux ass. They study usability and cater to the user. They put icons for the most frequently used applications right in front of the user.

We need a distro with intelligent design, and a sweet default look'n'feel. A tightly integrated distro, where everything is in its place, for an obvious reason. I want a distro that women, or very effete men, have fussed and agonized over. Not a bunch of apps cobbled together for/by Klingon coders.

Linspire users, I'd love to hear your first-hand experiences.

Desktop Linux? Suuuuure. Would you like some Reality with that?

Re:Mandrake disappointed me.

[jimicus]

I upgraded my Dell Inspiron 5150 from Mandrake 9.2 to Mandrake 10.

This is something I wouldn't expect someone who was inexperienced with Linux to know, but a couple of years ago, many Linux distributions (and Mandrake was certainly one of them) were appallingly unreliable when you chose the "Upgrade" option of the install. Usually, you'd be better off backing up /home and /usr/local and reloading from scratch.

It is disappointing to see that nothing much has changed there.

In a business, chances are that most desktop computers would be running identical (or at least very similar) software configurations, reasonably similar hardware configurations and any major changes would be carefully managed by a team of experienced people who have the time to test everything thoroughly. And users wouldn't be updating software themselves. In such cases, Linux is probably more-or-less desktop ready - indeed, my employer's been using it for about 2 or 3 years now on the desktop.

For home users who don't want to go through all that, it's probably not ideal. Things can go wrong rather horribly. Unfortunately, this has been true for almost every operating system on the PC for many years.

Re:1st 10 OS version?

[jonadab]

> Is this the first OS to go beyond version 10?

In a word, no.

> I know there is MacOS X, but that's kind of randomly chosen name (more
> than a version number), no?

Lesse, there was System 6, System 7, MacOS 8, MacOS 9, then Mac OS X, which
was at first 10.0 then 10.1 then 10.2 then 10.3 and soon 10.4. Looks like a
number to me.

Nor was Mac the first OS to hit double-digit version numbers, and I think
Solaris was there before Mandrake. Heck, Emacs is at version 21 now :-)