DS vs PSP - Developers, Press Sound Off

Sean O'Neill writes "Over at GCAdvanced.com, we've got a large feature interviewing handheld developers and gaming press about the Sony PSP and Nintendo DS. Marc Nix of IGN says: 'I think a lot of system fans and game reporters are gearing up for a big Portable System War of 2005, but the problem is, gamers traditionally haven't cared all that much about handhelds.' However, it's also pointed out that 'incredible features for the new handhelds... will undoubtedly elevate their appeal' - the article then gets responses from more than 20 developers/press on their views of the conflict to come."

Comments

The Winner

[Rie Beam]

I think the winner will be the one who comes up with a new technology in handhelds actually worth noting - I, for one, would love to see massive multiplayer handheld combat over a small area in your neighborhood / town - but it's probably just going to be rehashes of old games, since all the new ideas are in the, well, newer fields.

Re:The Winner

[Txiasaeia]

Super Smash Brothers Melee would accomplish this very well - one screen would be zoomed in on your guy, the other one showing a zoomed out view of where everybody is. This would avoid the headache of trying to play this blasted game on a small TV.

Imagine a local MMORPG variant of Pokemon or Yu Gi Oh - it's like selling solid gold!

Re:The Winner

[Dizzle]

That would imply that Yu Gi Oh is worth solid gold... it isn't.

Re:The Winner

[draston]

I disagree.

Nintendo proved long ago that it matters less what the hardware is versus what the software is. If you look back at the original Nintendo Gameboy and the Sega Gamegear, you will see that Gamegear had *color*, while the Gameboy had *monochrome*. The Gameboy won.

The winner will be the system that developers create the most popular games for.

Re:The Winner

[Anonymous Coward]

not clear cut. the gamegear has terrible battery life and was expensive..

Re:The Winner

[Anonymous Coward]

The same goes for PSP...

Re:The Winner

[Txiasaeia]

It is to Nintendo - they might not make the game, but it would definitely help sell the DS. BTW, Yu gi oh is a *fantastic* game, much more enjoyable than M:TG, IMHO.

Re:The Winner

[TomGroves]

Ditto- that was my first thought too, though none of the interviewies really mentioned it. I would go nuts for a well done MMOx on the DS or PSP.

Re:The Winner

[Phisbut]

The winner will be the system that developers create the most popular games for

If Nintendo pulls off another Pokémon-like stunt for the DS (at least in Japan), then they already won the battle... Ya just can't beat a game that has a bunch of japanese schoolgirls interrested...

Re:The Winner

[Anonymous Coward]

And the GameGear was built for shit.

But it did have multiplayer on a hand heald 10+years ago

Handhelds are the future!

[tod_miller]

I have been having some fun in the palm of my hand, err, developing for PDA's. I use several models daily, and they suck!

However the potential for a mobile PC with camera / peripherals, and more importantly, instant, fast, GPRS or local connectivity (WiFi) that can easily be built into games (and lets not forget GPS) will make a whole new breed of gaming.

This is already happening, and the whole of Tokyo is host to the first (?) real life MUD, where people can walk around the city using GPS to reposition themselves in the game, and taking different commutes to work to fight new monsters.

Pocket PC's are shockingly cheap now, and except for thier bland input keys, the stylus mode of input can be used as an analogue stick (by orbiting around a fixed center)

Quake2 plays nicely on my Axim30. Of course, this is about 'console' handhelds. As the price barriers blur between the two, it is hard to say what is what.

A sony and nintendo will have something that PPC will not have - a distribution chain. Even though we want digital distribution, cartidges will probably still be developed, or a mini dvd disc.

Perhaps games will come on SD cards in the near future, bringing their costs down for all other users.

The good thing about OTA distribution is the ability to on the fly encode some DRM (yuck!) that would disable the full game if copied onto another device, unless the person 'transfers' the license somehow....

Re:Handhelds are the future!

[lpp]

and taking different commutes to work to fight new monsters.

Imagine that a significant portion of the commuting population were vested in this game. They had the hardware and the desire to play this game and did so.

Imagine that this population also wanted to fight these new monsters in game, so they all started altering their commuting patterns.

I wonder how, if at all, this would affect traffic congestion. High traffic areas with much congestion might see some relief as commuters elected to pick different routes into and out of town, just to get the better pickings in less travelled areas.

Then again, commuting could be made worse. Instead of everyone getting on a bus or train (where *everyone* is hacking the some mobs), they all jump into their individual vehicles, creating additional nodes on the traffic system.

Of course, given the initial assumptions about the population size, I doubt it would have much of an effect.

Still, an interesting thought.

Re:Handhelds are the future!

[Hwaguy]

Yeah, but lamers would stay in high traffic areas camping for some "lewt".

Thankfully, this MUD will probably be too pain-in-the-ass for most Japanese, thereby maintaing their transit infrastructure.

DS guaranteed winner

[Apreche]

The DS is a guaranteed winner. In the very best situation it rocks, has a lot of games that rock and everything is awesome. At the very worst it ends up like virtual boy, and you get to be the cool kid on the block who has a virtual boy.

Remember back in the day gameboy vs. game gear? Even Nintendo admits openly the game gear was superior technically. But gameboy won because it had Tetris. It had portable games. The PSP is going to have console games. Taking PlayStation games and making them portable will fail for the same reason that taking PC games and putting them on console systems fails so miserably. Just because you can take a game with you in the car doesn't make it a portable game in the same way that playing Quake 2 on the N64 doesn't make Quake 2 a console game. You get it? Nintendo is the only company that seems to understand this. Look at advance wars, that's a portable game. It wouldn't work any other way. But it looks like Sony is just going to try to miniaturize the playstation, and it wont work for the same reason the game gear didn't work.

Nintendo knows this. Nintendo is making portable games. Sony is making a really small console.
You can read it here, straight from the horses mouth.

Re:DS guaranteed winner

[DreadPiratePizz]

Gameboy won because it had VASTLY superior battery life. You had to put 6 AAs in the game gear, and it went through them in about 2 hours. The gameboy used 4 AAs, but got much much more life out of them. It was simply more portable.

Re:DS guaranteed winner

[dogbowl]

You're right to a point, but you don't follow your argument to its conclusion.

What did people DO with their longer battery life?

Gameboy won becuase of its games. Tetris and Super Mario World blew away anything the Game Gear had to offer.

Re:DS guaranteed winner

[AnyNoMouse]

I have a Game Gear. It has some fun games. Games that work well in a handheld format.

The biggest problem was switching batteries out every few hours of play... that gets expensive really quick unless you want to be tethered to a wall wart. I think this, more than anything else, killed the system. I'm not saying that's it's only problem, but arguably it's biggest.

The PSP will have rechargable batteries, so you don't have to worry about battery cost (at least not for another 3-4 years). The big question is the life per charge. 2 hours avg will not be enough. 8 hours (judging from the number of iPod fanatics) will probably be just fine. 16 hours is probably dreaming :-)

Once they jump the battery life hurdle, then people will start looking more seriously at the games...

Re:DS guaranteed winner

[Anonymous Coward]

You've obviously never played a gamegear. It had awesome games and if that wasn't enough it had the entire library of master system games you could play on it too (awesome classics like global defense, action fighter, shinobi, fantasy zone, alien syndrome, etc). comparing sonic on the gamegear to the crippled mario gameboy had shows how much superior it was in this area.

Re:DS guaranteed winner

[Disposable Rob]

The Game Boy's librry wasn't all that much better. Game Gear had Sonic and it's share of puzzle games, I remember how I had to haul it around with it's massive battery pack with charger. But it came down to actual portability. The Turbo Express was also a great system with great games, but didn't have the battery power.

Re:DS guaranteed winner

[Anonymous Coward]

The PSP is going to have console games. Taking PlayStation games and making them portable will fail for the same reason that taking PC games and putting them on console systems fails so miserably.

Not withstanding that Doom 2 plays wonderfully on the Gameboy SP, they're going to be taking console games and putting them on a portable console system. The only issue is the "pickupability" of the game - the ability jump in for 5 minutes of play time and get a rewarding experience without having to play for 2 hours. One thing that would hugely help the PSP (with it's disk based system) would be a "sleep" mode where you can suspend a game in progress - with an "instant on" feature to pick up where you were immediately. (Although many Gameboy titles - any of the Final Fantasy games for example - haven't suffered even though it's not easy to jump in for short play sessions).

Hell, the PSP is the first $300 portable device that I will buy - simply because of the scope of the games. For example: I'd much rather have a quick 5 minute race in Gran Turismo 4 PSP than play 5 minutes of a lame 80's style side-scroller in Super Ultra Mario 10.

Re:DS guaranteed winner

[dogbowl]

Not only have I played a game gear, I have one new in its box along with a host of boxed games as well.

If the master system games were so great, then the system would have sold better. They weren't, and it didn't. Same for the gameboy/game gear.
And the same will be true for the DS and PSP.

Software sells the hardware. If it were the other way around, consoles would cost $500 and games would be the loss leader.

Re:DS guaranteed winner

[NanoGator]

"What did people DO with their longer battery life?"

They don't have to regularly stop their game because the battery died.

Re:DS guaranteed winner

[einTier]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Game Gear was nearly twice the price of the GameBoy. Same with Atari's Lynx. I remember wanting both of the above, but settling with a GameBoy, because as a kid, it was a lot easier to swallow GameBoy's (still high) price.

The games do sell the console, and ultimately I think they are very important to the end game. However, to think they are the most important thing will cause you to lose sight of goal. Nintendo certainly has had the best first party games on the Gamecube and N64, but that didn't stop Sony from handing them their ass.

Re:DS guaranteed winner

[Guppy06]

"But gameboy won because it had Tetris. It had portable games."

IMO, part of why Game Boy has successfully trumped so many competitors is that they don't make "portable games." They make games that happen to be portable. While most other handhelds seem to take the stance of "Now you can play your favorite colsole game X on the road!" (with versions that often paled in comparison), most of my favorite 4-shade Game Boy games didn't really have console analogs, at least not initially. SaGa and Seiken Densetsu were re-branded in the US but didn't have anything in common with Final Fantasy beyond their new names. Gargoyle's Quest* went on to inspire sequels on the NES and SNES. Metroid II is just... well... Metroid II. And don't forget where Kirby got his start.

And with the Game Boy library maturing with the hardware itself, Sony and the PSP's publishers will have to try that much harder to be something far more than "the hand-held version of the PS2," I don't see much hope for it.

When the Super Game Boy came out for the SNES, relatively early in the Game Boy's life, people scoffed. "Game Boy is supposed to be portable! Why would I want to play portable games on my TV?" Things have continued to build, Nintendo has released their Game Boy Player for the GCN and people are no longer laughing. Forget about playing PlayStation One/2 games on your PSP, the PSP won't be able to succeed until people start to want to play PSP games on their PlayStation 3.

* Capcom was making noise at one point about an MMORPG based on the Ghouls & Ghosts & Goblins/Gargoyle's Quest/Demon's Crest universe. What happened to that?

Re:DS guaranteed winner

[Anonymous Coward]

You've obviously never played a gamegear.

You've obviously never used a game gear as a portable system. I imagine you sat at home with your gamegear and played it just like you would the master system.

I played Sonic on the game gear, and even looking past the terrible screen that couldn't keep up with Sonic's movements (making the game much harder to play than on the master system), the game did not offer any of the features that a truly portable game does. For example, Fire Emblem - at almost any stage of the game, I can switch off my GBA, put it in my pocket, and resume the game exactly where I left off.

Re:DS guaranteed winner

[Zangief]

* Capcom was making noise at one point about an MMORPG based on the Ghouls & Ghosts & Goblins/Gargoyle's Quest/Demon's Crest universe. What happened to that?

It wasn't a MMORPG, just an online game, like the next Resident Evil for PS2. I readed a preview once. Don't know what happened.

Re:DS guaranteed winner

[poot_rootbeer]

The biggest problem [with the Game Gear] was switching batteries out every few hours of play...

That, and that the games Sega released for it weren't "portable-ready". Sonic for GG, for example, might take two hours for an average player to play from beginning to end. Unfortunately, you could only get an hour and a half from a set of batteries, meaning you could never finish the game unless you were running on AC power. And there was no battery-backed savestate or password feature, either... in the end, the game basically could not be played all the way through.

Developers

[FLAGGR]

As someone who goes alot of game development, I think the DS offers more for developers, and is MUCH more appealing to program on. At first all the stuff looked gimicky, but it's really starting to grow on me. It should also be easy to program on, it's based off the same architecture as the other gameboys, which is fully documented on the internet and very easy to understand. On the other hand, anything sony has made has been difficult to program for, ask ANYONE who has, you spend way too much time reinventing the wheel and doing more micromanagment then you would think possible. They haven't said if the architecture of the PSP is the same as the PS2 yet, but I'm willing to bet it is.

Re:Developers

[Anonymous Coward]

PSP is supposedly a lot easier to develop than the PS2... But still more costly than the DS... I think Sony has learned their lessons after the PS2 launch fiasco.

Re:Developers

[I judge you]

I think the DS offers more for developers

Well, that's all nice and heart warming, ya know? But it doesn't matter - it's the publishers who decide what platform the games will get made for.

Re:Developers

[drinkypoo]

They have described the PSP's internals in some detail, and it is similar to the PS2 but not identical. For instance there are not two vector pipelines to fill any more, just one... And I believe the main CPU is faster, which should make it still easier.

Re:Developers

[Alban]

They haven't said if the architecture of the PSP is the same as the PS2 yet, but I'm willing to bet it is.

Dude, as a game developer, you really should know this by now, even if you're not developing for the PSP.

Will there really be a war?

[chrispyman]

I mean after all, the Nintendo DS is supposed to come out before the Xmas 2004 buying frenzy, while Sony's PSP is supposed to come out early 2005. After all, wasn't it Sony who used the "get it out early" tactic to win the current generation's console war? Technical superiority (which the PSP undoubtedly has) doesn't always win the war, its all about the games.

Re:Will there really be a war?

[lpp]

Didn't Sega try the "get it out early" tactic with the Dreamcast and fail miserably? Unless I'm missing my facts.

Re:Will there really be a war?

[AnyNoMouse]

They also tried the "get it out early" tactic with the Saturn and failed miserably against the PS :-)

Re:Will there really be a war?

[chrispyman]

That may be true that Sega used the "get it out early" tactic and failed but Sega's consoles weren't exactly the most popular (though they did have a nice following). The analogy I was making was that the PS2 came out a year earlier than the competition and, since the PS1 was king over the N64, that only strengthened Sony's position as this generation's king of the consoles. The situation is the exact reverse in portables, so it will be interesting to see who wins, or if two giants can coexist. If nothing else, perhaps now there will be some good competition in portables.

Re:Will there really be a war?

[Anonymous Coward]

hat may be true that Sega used the "get it out early" tactic and failed but Sega's consoles weren't exactly the most popular (though they did have a nice following). The analogy I was making was that the PS2 came out a year earlier than the competition...

...and the point he was making is that the PS2 didn't come out a year earlier than the competition, because the Dreamcast was the competition and it was out about a year before the PS2.

Re:Will there really be a war?

[mausmalone]

Technical superiority (which the PSP undoubtedly has) doesn't always win the war, its all about the games.

I'm not sure about undoubtedly. All of you who think this is gonna be a portable PS2, think again. It's not. It may be a similar archetecture and based off the same technology, but it's not gonna be nearly as fast. It would draw too much power and require too much cooling to be that fast. The DS is damned powerful from what I've seen, and I've yet to see a reasonable screenshot of something actually running on the PSP. At any rate, I'm really interested to see what the PSP has to offer, but nothing about it is without doubt right now.

It all comes down to game base

[ShroomSolo]

IMHO the DS is gonna beat out the PSP. Grant it it will be a close race but the DS has the games. I'm sure there are loads of parents who will look at the DS for little timmy over the PSP just because he has 50 games to play for it already. I don't have the cash on hand to pay $150 for a console than another $50 just for something to play on it. I'm far more inclined to get the DS just for Castlevania and the other Vania GBA games I already have that it will be able to play. Its just not gonna be a total slaughter on either side. Just my 2 cents. ... and no I don't know how to spell

Re:It all comes down to game base

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo hasn't said that those fifty games will be out when the DS comes out, in fact that's a dream. Just because they have fifty games announced doesn't mean they will all be there immediately for little timmy.

Re:It all comes down to game base

[wheany]

Most parents probably don't have a clue how many games a system has, and don't care. They either listen to little Timmy, or look at the price tag. At most the parents will ask a clerk which is the one that plays Pokemon day-glo purple.

Re:It all comes down to game base

[ShroomSolo]

now that I think about it you are probably right! IF I had kids i'd want to be more involved... especially since I would be the one playing it when they got in trouble =). I'd ASSume most /. gamers would be more involved when it came to games/systems.

Re:It all comes down to game base

[KevinKnSC]

He was talking about Timmy's collection of GBA games, not the DS titles that are in development.

If the /. effect got loose....

[tod_miller]

Imagine if the /. effect sent everyone to the same location... the whole universe might suddenly be replaced with something even more inexplicable.

Some say this has already happened.

'Tis a wild thought!

It's a 3-way fight.

[Anonymous Coward]

Interestingly, while there's a lot of focus on the PSP vs the DS, in my opinion it's a three-way fight. If the PSP is equivalent to a portable Playtation and the DS a portable NES, then the cell phone is your portable PC.

Like the PC, cell-phone games are a little trickier to build (for the same reasons: multiple platforms and standards) but also like the PC in the 90s, it has a major advantage over the "consoles": connectivity. You can play your buddies (even if they're not in the same room, which is as much as you get for connectivity with the PSP and DS. Add to that over-the-air delivery of games, and you've got something going on. And everybody will own a cell-phone anyway...

And sure, the first Ngage sucked hardcore, but they'll fix it. Unlike Nintendo or Sony, Nokia is used to changing and improving their products yearly, and you better believe the other cell-phone makers are working on gaming handsets too.

Just you watch, the major feature of the PSP2 and/or DS2 will be more robust online and over-the-air access, but by then they'll be playing catch-up (kind of like how the PS2 and XBox are trying to catch up to the PC in terms of connectivity).

Sure is an interesting time to be a gamer...

Re:It's a 3-way fight.

[hal2814]

This is an interesting argument. The connectivity already present in the Ngage will give it a leg up on any multiplayer games, but Nintendo and Sony could always counter by making some sort of cell-phone adapter. This would make their games just as networkable. While I do think the Ngage has potential, I think that it will be the one continually playing catch-up until its demise (which may be a long way off if Nokia plays their cards right).

Re:It's a 3-way fight.

[thebosz]

I don't think I understand this argument:

You can play your buddies (even if they're not in the same room, which is as much as you get for connectivity with the PSP and DS).

One of the key features of the DS (at least in my mind) is built in Wi-Fi and Nintendo's "Bluetooth" (it's not really Bluetooth, but something similiar).

Personally, the idea of using a cell phone for anything other than a phone is anthema to me. I'd much rather carry around a small phone and a game system, both of which can do one thing really well.

To me, the DS is a much more exciting platform than the PSP. Sure, the PSP will have some nice graphics (judging from the screens of the demos), but the DS has more possibilities. Like I mentioned, built in Wi-Fi to me just screams awesome versions of games like Super Smash Bros., Animal Crossing and Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles.

GameSpy Does it again

[Doomstalk]

From the article: "Dave 'Fargo' Kosak of GameSpy.com predicts: Here at GameSpy the general consensus is that the Sony handheld will blow the market wide open -- our editors often consider it to be the "iPod of Gaming," the must-have peripheral that'll make portables cool."

I'd take this more seriously if it came from a source with a shred of journalistic integrity. These are, after all, the people who listed such classics as Donkey Kong Country, Halo, and Quake 2 in their "Top 25 Most Overrated Games of All Time" list. Considering the fact that all three of these games are generally considered to be excellent by most gamers years after their release, they're obviously not overhyped. This is compounded when you consider, as Penny Arcade aptly notes, that Gamespy plays as much a part in the hype machine as anyone else. It's rather obvious that they were picked by Gamespy to create controversy instead of presenting a list of games that deserve the shame of being called overhyped. It seems to me that the "iPod of gaming" remark is yet another of these gambits, aimed more at ushering more hits their way than providing any useful information.

Re:GameSpy Does it again

[hibiki_r]

Sure, gamespy is not what I'd call the most reliable and balanced source of information, but I really can't blame them for naming those three games in their overhyped list. Donkey Kong country was pretty, but as far as gameplay goes, it's not really in the same league as the best games of the SNES generation. I'd rather play Super Mario World or Sonic any day. Quake 2 was, IMO, a step back from the original Quake: The single player game was just as forgettable, the graphics were not a major improvement (IMO, the disco-like colored lights made it look worse), and the multiplayer was way less fun. Quake and Quake 3 are clearly better games. Halo... The amount of hype Halo had is still unmatched. With that amount of hype, almost any game would be in the top 25 overhyped list. Maybe X-Com, Civilization, Syndicate, Ocarina of Time and the like could have deserved that much hype, but Halo? It sold a lot of consoles, but it wasn't even good enough for me to want to finish the single player campaign when I bought it.

Really, Gamespy's overrated list was pretty fair. I think that Morrowind and Super Mario Sunshine were not really all that overhyped, but then again, I see how somebody could disagree with me on those two. I have to agree with you on the "ipod of gaming" comment though: Fargo should have kept his mouth shut on that one.

Re:GameSpy Does it again

[Anonymous Coward]

They're just PSP fanboys, yet somehow fail to realise how the phrase "iPod of Gaming" really is a veiled insult. Guess why Sony themselves prefer "Walkman of the 21st century" :P

All the highlighted quotes throughout the pages are pointing out strenghts of the PSP or weaknesses of the DS.

Re:GameSpy Does it again

[oskillator]

I'm not a fan of GameSpy, and that 25 Overrated Games article was incredibly poorly thought-out, however: there is a good case to be made for at least DKC and Halo being overrated.

Consider Donkey Kong Country. At the time when the next-generation, 3D consoles were coming out, it was a stunning-looking SNES game. It looked 3D! But that was the trick -- it had to have the look of 3D in order to compete with the newer games that actually were 3D. So they gave the sprites the shiny, plasticky look that people associate with 3D rendering.

If Rare had hand-drawn the sprites, does anyone doubt that it would've looked better? I mean, people are still better at drawing than computers are. Once you strip away the chrome -- or see it in a negative light, as I do -- what's left of DKC is a competent enough platformer, but not something deserving of the buzz it got.

As for Halo, it got enormous hype due to Bungie's reputation (and Microsoft's deep pockets), but it has the earmarks of a game that was rush, rush, rushed to completion in order to meet the launch deadline. I have no doubt that Halo 2 will be an excellent game, but Halo was enormously overrated. And who can blame the players for continuing to spread the buzz? You're not going to go up to your peer group and say "I just spent $350 on the newest console plus its only worthwhile game, and it's crap!"

Re:GameSpy Does it again

[NanoGator]

" ...what's left of DKC is a competent enough platformer, but not something deserving of the buzz it got."

No, that's not really true. People get over graphics pretty quick. If the game was only mediochre, it would have died a quick death instead of being held at the highest bar.

Re:GameSpy Does it again

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhmmm...because Walkman is a Sony product, and iPod isn't? Or am I missing something?

Re:GameSpy Does it again

[Weirdofreak]

Personally, I don't believe a game can be overrated. Underrated, yes. Out of the people that play it, it will almost always be rated exactly as highly as it deserves. I don't like Tony Hawk games, but I don't consider them overrated, just not for me. I also don't like the early Mario or Sonic games but again, they just aren't the sort of games that I like.

I feel that underrating occurs when too many people buy a game that isn't their style. If lots of people like me went out and spontaneously bought THUG and then rated it, it would go down in ratings, because the people playing it don't appreciate games like that. It especially happens with sequels that change some major element, the established fanbase spits on it in disgust and those that didn't like the original most likely won't play.

Re:GameSpy Does it again

[Rallion]

I agree with you there. Gamespy's endorsement of the PSP is the best predictor of the DS's overwhelming success that I can think of.

Re:GameSpy Does it again

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. Sony was the king of of the hill when it came to portable music. Walkman was HUGE, for what? nearly two decades.

Saying "the ipod of handhelds" just hammers the point in about how completely Sony has dropped the ball.

Re:GameSpy Does it again

[oskillator]

If the game was only mediochre, it would have died a quick death instead of being held at the highest bar.

If only that were true. Just look at Donkey Kong Country!

Re:GameSpy Does it again

[mausmalone]

But it will be the iPod of gaming. Sleek, pricey, and technologically, nothing special. And it'll never go down in price, 'cause it's a status symbol.

Difference

[Sv-Manowar]

The main difference is that Sony are more onwards with their consoles, Nintendo are just going backwards and claiming to be focusing on gameplay. Its easy to see who will win this "battle"

Re:Difference

[Doomstalk]

How is focusing on gameplay backwards? Without new gameplay mechanics the industry will stagnate. Every game will just become a remake of the last, just with slightly prettier graphics. And while, as Hollywood has shown us in recent years, remakes have a certain appeal, people will get sick of playing the increasingly pretty versions of the same games over and over again. Without a constant flow of new ideas, people will just get bored with video games and the industry will crash.

Re:Difference

[KDR_11k]

I can see that Sony is going forward (towards convergence and proprietary non-game media), but where's Nintendo going backwards? Because for a change they didn't try to set up a large online network?

Re:Difference

[Daetrin]

The main difference is that Sony are more onwards with their consoles, Nintendo are just going backwards and claiming to be focusing on gameplay. Its easy to see who will win this "battle"

I'd like to see you justify either of those claims, that Sony is "more onwards" ("looking forward" perhaps?) or that Nintendo is going backwards.

Sony is certainly going forwards, they've got improved graphics, wireless, new media, and the ability to play music and movies in some format. However Nintendo is also going forwards, they've got improved graphics, wireless, new media, two screens, and touchscreen capability.

They're clearly pointed in related but slightly tangential directions, Sony towards the all-in-one entertainment device, and Nintendo towards a more dedicated gaming machine. It would be hard to argue that either one is more "onward" than the other, and certainly Nintendo is not moving backwards.

One could attempt to argue on the basis of graphics that Sony is more "onward." However even ignoring the "it's the gameplay" argument, better graphics do not necessarily indicate a better console. Not only can other factors be a limitation (the N64 had better graphics capabilites than the PSX, but was limited by the media format) but if he technology needed for the better graphics pushes either the price or the battery life outside the tollerance range of the consumers it will not be considered a step forward in the long run (see GameGear and NeoGeo.)

Technology shmeck-ology

[HomeGroove]

I don't think it will come down to who's device has more whizbang and whistles. But who has the best games (It's the gameplay, stupid!).

In all likelihood it will end up being the DS because they'll use the same model that Playstation itself used (and Gameboy for that matter). Backward compatability. This gets you the first months when new games are slim and all the early adopters pay prime dollar to get the latest and greatest. Out of the gate, PSP will only have the games available at launch.

Plus wouldn't you rather play something like WarrioWare rather than Madden 2005 on a portable? I'd rather view Madden on a big screen.

Also, who cares?

2 markets

[germ!nation]

In a way, i firmly believe that Nintendo sit in their own niche within the various console markets.

I would never only own a Nintendo console, because they don't have the very best titles (Sony have traditionally managed this, while MS are trying to buy their way into it), but they do have a lot of the most innovative and down right fun games. These kind of games that large publishers like EA can't see a guaranteed paycheck from and so never touch but Nintendo have a belief in their gaming, even though the volume of titles on their consoles is always dissapointing, that always seems to deliver.

and from a personal pov the 3 words i am looking for are 'Animal Crossing Online'.

Re:2 markets

[Daetrin]

I would never only own a Nintendo console, because they don't have the very best titles

Um, they don't?

Maybe _you_ don't think their games rank at the top, but i can show you any number of other sources that think that Nintendo has always had a lot of the very best games out there. The general complaint has never been that they don't have some of the very best games out there, it's that they don't have enough games in general, especially in the "pretty good" to "almost but not quite the very best" range.

Not that owning multiple consoles is a bad thing (i go for the PS2 and GameCube myself) but one could make a reasonable argument for any of the big three that they have the very best games as long as you were looking at the right criteria.

I stopped reading when. . .

[M3wThr33]

They said the PSP played mp3s. Wow. Talk about a giant misstep. Sony has not embelish at ALL about the major features of the PSP. It plays MUSIC FILES on MEMORY STICK DUOs. We know NOTHING more about it. My bet? It only plays ATRAC3 files to save on licensing and because it'd help keep the price down, just like the Clies in Japan or that new iPod-ripoff. If someone isn't clever enough to notice that the PSP isn't going to play mp3s, they don't deserve my time.

The PSP, playing your mp3s, dvds and PS2 games in a handheld, but you'll need to buy them all again.

Re:I stopped reading when. . .

[Anonymous Coward]

And in the discussions of battery life, a lot of them didn't seem to realise that both systems will have built-in rechargeable batteries, still going on about buying batteries and changing batteries.

If these are "industry" insights I prefer to listen to fanboy plebians.

And yes, what you're saying is correct, PSP will only support ATRAC3. The movie playing was dead in the water before it was even concieved but now Sony has effectively aborted the MP3 (oops I mean audio) playing feature as well.
Or maybe people will be happy playing their Atracs from the memory stick since that's the only way to squeeze something resembling a decent battery life out of the PSP.

Re:I stopped reading when. . .

[n0wak]

I've seen conflicting reports, but I think it's safe to assume that the PSP will not support mp3. Many liken the PSP to the iPod which is completely wrong, as Sony already has a hard-drive equipped player trying to compete against the iPod. And that DEDICATED music machine... does it support mp3? NOPE.

Which is quite idiotic. Sony has some good game software talent and good hardware talent, but they are being controlled by their music/movie divisions. Their media divisions are holding back inovation in their hardware divisions. Sony is stagnating.

Re:I stopped reading when. . .

[kamapuaa]

Which is quite idiotic. Sony has some good game software talent and good hardware talent, but they are being controlled by their music/movie divisions. Their media divisions are holding back inovation in their hardware divisions. Sony is stagnating.

Wow, and I thought Spiderman made a shitload of money.

And if the Sony hardware talent is so great, why does their stuff break so often, have audio hissing, etc.??? Why is SonicStage 2 universally disliked?

I actually use MDs (they're the best alternative for making easy concert bootlegs, to my mind), and Sharp's licensed MDs are considered the standard for recording, with Sony for people who like the well-advertised brand name.

Re:I stopped reading when. . .

[Doomstalk]

I wasn't aware that it was going to play any user uploaded format. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I was under the distinct impression that Sony was going to be releasing music on the UMD format for the PSP. Does anyone know if I'm right or not?

Re:I stopped reading when. . .

[Anonymous Coward]

"And if the Sony hardware talent is so great, why does their stuff break so often"

Making stuff break two days after the warranty expires takes a great deal of talent.

Don't know, the PSP looks way way way better

[SmallFurryCreature]

The gamegear was better but not light years ahead. The PSP seems to be far more powerfull then the GBA. Will this make a difference? Don't know but I think the DS is far from a sure winner, lets not forget the GBA and GBA SP had some serious design flaws. No reason nintendo can't screw up the DS as well.

Further more in the time of the Gameboy Nintendo was THE company. That is no longer the case. Nintendo is now an also ran in console land and Sony has the shelf space.

Frankly I like my gba but the screen is poor and the graphics are at best passable. I am ready for a more powerfull handheld. The DS sounds intresting but it is all going to depend on how well the split screen is used. Unless they come up with some truly great games I think the PSP is going to win IF Sony is smart enough to just put it on display with a running demo and does not screw up the battery life. Then again real hardcore gamers will probably get both anyway.

Re:Don't know, the PSP looks way way way better

[Anonymous Coward]

" and Sony has the shelf space"

except in the handheld world. Sony isn't on there own turf here, they've got a 500 pound gorilla staring them down with a more innovative system, an earlier launch date, and a massive library.

Re:Don't know, the PSP looks way way way better

[Weirdofreak]

The PSP won't be anything new. It won't be able to do anything that the PS2 can't, at least not game-wise. The DS on the other hand will be able to take games that can't be done on the normal consoles - not even the up-and-coming Revolution, PS3 and XB2 will be able to play certain DS games, because of the touchscreen. I don't care about two screens, that's just one screen at twice the size. With a bit of thought any games that use two screens could be done with just one. You may have to shrink each one a little, but it's nothing big. The touchscreen is going to be revolutionary. It may already be used in PDAs and things, but they aren't gaming platforms. The touchscreen will allow controls not possible with any other input system. The IPod's rotating disc thingy could be implemented with a touchscreen, but nothing else could do it. It brings your radio tuning slide, your speakers' volume knob, just about every input device ever devised can be shown off with a touchscreen. Think that Submarine game that was demoed at E3. That's what the DS is about, the two screens just gives it a cool name.

As a sidenote, although I said that two screens are no better than one, that's only theoretical. You could have two viewpoints of the same area with a single screen, but splitting one screen across the middle for single player hasn't been done before. I don't know why. With the DS you may effectively only have one screen twice as high, but it won't be used like a single screen much. There's nothing to stop developers putting a 'second screen' in console games, but on the DS they -will- do that. The two screens really just tells them, 'Hey! You know what would be cool? Instead of choosing between camera angles, if you could use both!' - whether or not they'll realise that any time soon remains to be seen.

Re:Don't know, the PSP looks way way way better

[aj50]

'Hey! You know what would be cool? Instead of choosing between camera angles, if you could use both!'

The DS only allows 3D images on one screen at a time so you "could" have two views but only if one is a top down or side on 2D view.

Not A War, Just Different Niches

[miller60]

It's not a head-to-head "war," but a battle for different niches. With PSP, Sony doesn't want to steal all the Gameboy users so much as expand the user base of portables. Most Gameboy users will probably gravitate to the DS, while Sony hopes current Playstation gamers who don't currently use a portable will buy the PSP.

Re:Not A War, Just Different Niches

[StocDred]

If that's the case, then it ought to be easy to predict who will win the most sales. If most GBA users go for a DS, and only PS2 users (who don't currently use a portable [portable=GBA]) go for the PSP... the math seems obvious.

I'm not sure that's Sony's actual plan there. Sony would much prefer to steal a ton of GBA users, particularly the older crowd by playing up the "adult" angle of the PSP. Sony is no doubt looking hard at Nintendo's failed connectivity experiment and recanting all their proposed "You can use your PSP in PS3 games!" marketing hoopla.

And, yeah, Animal Crossing Online. Absofuckinglutely.

touchscreen vs. fun.

[mixMastaT]

gamers don't care much about handhelds? now i know why he is working at IGN. isn't the gameboy the most popular game platform of all-time?

do you guys really want to play games made with analog sticks in mind on a handheld?

i would much rather have fun games then realistic looking games.

i heard the marketing as.s from nintendo talk about what excites gamers and he was talking about a touchscreen interface. i don't really care about touchscreens, do you?

i do love the wireless mulitplayer stuff though.

i'll definately get a ds. sony stuff just seems a bit stale. but the psp will probably be purchased by rappers (it's shiny like bling) so get ready for ea to dominate on that platform.

spell check is for sissys

Re:touchscreen vs. fun.

[KDR_11k]

I think handhelds being "unpopular" means that people buy games for their consoles first and rarely buy handheld games. Generally the number of games sold per system is a lot lower than for home consoles. And realistically, how often do people get hyped over a handheld game? People anticipated Doom 3 for four years, HL2 for even more, yet noone even thinks about what will come out for the GBA more than three months away (unless you live in Europe and read a list of games recently released in North America...).

handheld on TV

[MORTAR_COMBAT!]

the only reason I have a GBA is because with the GBA player I can play games on the TV also. Having the GBA is an added bonus (added to the fact that they actually still make interesting gameplay games on GBA) to just being a GBA Player gamer, because I can now take the same save game with me on a plane, train, bus, whatever.

so this begs the question: will there be a GBA DS to TV player? as these portable "consoles" keep getting more powerful, why aren't there better ways of docking them and using them on the TV screen?

Re:handheld on TV

[JustJon]

But if the DS is emulated on a tv screen, how would they do the two screens? Require you to have 2 TVs or just shrink them both down on one tv so that it's too small to see? And how would they emulate the touch screen?

Re:handheld on TV

[cttforsale]

my thoughts on the matter. (i.e. quite do-able) http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=117479&thresho ld=1&commentsort=0&tid=207&mode=thread&pid=9934278 #9938419

Sites for latest DS & PSP news

[Anonymous Coward]

There are quite a few sites out there but I find this one good for DS stories and news and this one good for PSP news and rumors.

Price

[JustJon]

With all the discussions above about features and gameplay, what about price? Isn't the PSP supposed to cost twice the price of the DS at their respective launches? Won't that affect the sales at launch?

The PSP is supposed to cost as much as a regular console's launch price. How many parents want to spend that much on a toy their kids can drop/break/lose?

Any suggestions for the next feature?

[Antmaster]

I am the author of this feature's developer roundtable and article. I would like to know what people want me to add or delete for the article next time. What are your opinions of the developer and journalist roundtables? Which developers/journalists would you like to see in the roundtables next time? Do you think I should add another roundtable or interview anyone special? Or if you have any suggestions or comments, I would LOVE to hear them. I would like to make the next State of Handheld Industry much better than this one. Thanks in advance for your suggestions/comments and support!