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A Look at the CounterStrike Source Beta
mutewinter writes "CounterFrag.com has posted an article reviewing the recent CounterStrike Source beta. What is unusual about Source is that it keeps the same gameplay, including guns and maps, of the original CounterStrike and simply brings CounterStrike (which uses the original Half Life engine) up to date graphically. Imagine if Doom 3 had been just like the original Doom, but with a better engine. Many gamers look down on recycled content, but is this a problem for a 5 year old game that is still as popular as ever?" S!: We also had an alternative look at the Beta over on Slashdot Games a couple of days back.
why fix it? Well, of course, there should be new content, and there probably will be, but that doesn't mean that we have to get rid of the old stuff. There's always a balance somewhere.. but things aren't always as mutually exclusive as people think it be..
I'm not the devil.. just his advocate.
I work for a very larger server company and Counter strike is still the most popular game, At least 95% of our servers are CS.
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny."
There is a difference. This is not a sequel, just an update. Think of it as CS 1.8 (or whatever version they are up to now).
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Imagine if Doom 3 had been just like the original Doom, but with a better engine
To me, that is exactly what they did.
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I think that counter-strike has found an near perfect formula that follow the KISS standard. GAMEPLAY is the real core of a game. The graphics are just icing. The have a perfect sense of gameplay so there is no need to fix it. Just to make it pretty for the new generation.
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
Give the people what they want. If there's a market for the exact same game in a better engine, then it will be popular. If it's not there, perhaps the developers will work on totally new content. Not many people complain that the Scrabble being sold today is exactly the same as the one they played as a kid.
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The fans din't want the game to be changed. The counter-strike fans will go nuts even if there is a small box moved in some map. So this new version will sell good, at least with the hardcore fans.
Imagine if Doom 3 had been just like the original Doom, but with a better engine
You might get reviews like this:
"Doom 3" is the most visually appealing and best sounding PC game to date, but it doesn't bring anything new to the "3-D shooter" genre in terms of the game play, which is basically 1993's "Doom" all over again.
This is a mistake on Valve's part.
I played CS from beta 5 or so up through the 1.2 or so release. Then I got tired of it: the weapons were -too- balanced, and it lost a good deal of the fun and challenge. That, and things became rediculous, such as the accuracy of headshots and such. It just wasn't fun anymore.
That, and the plethora of people that played it obsessively (not I) were irritating, as they were quite good and made getting killed repeatedly terribly boring/frustrating. Add into that the maps getting replayed an obscene number of times (dust, anyone?), with few people playing the newer (and IMO often better) maps, things got really, really dull.
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't have paid money for Doom with updated graphics. I certainly won't pay for CS with updated graphics.
I bought half-life. With it, I got a dedicated community full of modders, bringing forth DoD, CS, and the like of fun, playable expansions in addition to the single (and multi) gameplay of just Half-Life. What is it, exactly, that I'd get by paying for CS Source that isn't already available in terms of gameplay? Nothing. CS currently looks pretty damn decent, what with the 'modern' textures and such, and runs quite well. An engine change does nothing for gameplay.
If I want pretty, I'll get a povray renderer.
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I was actually amazed at how ugly and washed out the screenshots look considering what the engine is capable of. But I appreciate that hardcore CS2 players would revolt if the lighting conditions are changed too much since that would ultimately affect gameplay. But I guess there will soon be new maps which take better advantage of the new engine.
CS has had the longest retention of any of the FPS shooters for me (besides maybe Q2 and all of its assorted mods). I think I got hooked because I found a decent, mostly honest server where people would play as a team to meet the objective. You actually felt like you had a job to do and became more immersed in the game.
Once it started to become more and more popular, a lot of the team play went away on "common" servers where it just became a frag fest. I'll definitely check out Source and see how it looks and feels. Hopefully most of the map exploits have been fixed better cheat prevention mentions have been added.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
Damn, did anyone else read that title think for a brief second that they were going to be treated to some counterstrike source code oogle at?
Funny comic from Penny Arcade today about CounterStrike, here's the link.
"There is no spoon." - The Matrix
Oh, like Doom Legacy...
In addition, as someone else noted, this is essentially an update, it's not supposed to be Counter-Strike 2. I didn't hear anyone complain about CS 1.6 being just like CS 1.5.
Just my two cents
Are they even hitboxes anymore or are they what doom 3 has per pixel hits? Give you the ability to shoot between the legs and not hit anything or shoot over the shoulder, etc?
You figure they could stop all the hitbox complaining by getting rid of them entirely. If you get hit you are really hit, if they miss then they really missed you.
... and thought that the source for Counter Strike had been leaked...
What's HF2? Huckleberry Finn 2?
This video is a must for anyone who has played Counterstrike
Counterstrike players complain for months if you even change small weapon balancing issues. I've even people complain about the new graphics. it would be like if you changed the rules of football. Its the game they've learned to play and Its highly upsetting if you start messing with it. I wouldnt be suprised if Counterstrike Was almost identical 10 yeas from now. with maby the addition new weapons.
Imagine if Doom 3 had been just like the original Doom, but with a better engine.
Honestly, that would've been awesome. I like Doom3, but something from the originals is missing, and it reminds me waaay to much of Half-Life rather than Doom. Actualy, is anybody aware of some group re-creating Doom and Doom2 on Doom3's engine?
And more on-topic now, I think it's good they kept the same maps and guns from the original Counter Strike. For a beta version, it helps to see the differences between the old engine and the new one.
You are more than the sum of what you consume. Desire is not an occupation.
CS still offers a level of gameplay that other cannot match, and CS:S does a very good job of renewing the game. Expect to hear more about CS:S as it moves out of beta, I was impressed with it.
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Doom 3 actually has per-polygon hits, it's not at the point where it's per-pixel yet. Probably will be in the next generation engine after Doom 3 though.
Ya, that is right, CS:S will be free with HL2, its not suppose to be CS2, nor is it suppose to bring anything new, valve simply ported CS to the new engine, and is offering it for free.. had they taken money for CS:S alone i could understand people being upset, but really.. This is just goodwill from Valve as i see it.. Stop complaining about everything!
CS: Source DOES include significant gameplay changes!
- Accurate physics, including ragdoll physics for when players die; you can also push stuff around.
- When you land from a jump, you STOP MOVING. No more bunny hoppers! Also if you fall from a high enough ledge to take damage, you stop moving for a bit.
- Accurate hitboxes, so you actually have to hit the head to get a headshot.
- The new fog effects make smoke grenades really useful.
- Flashbangs actually make you deaf for a minute, as do grenades if they explode near you.
- Jumping makes noise.
Nathan
I have played Farcry. I did point out that CounterStrike Source brings CounterStrike up-to-date graphically with other current games, Farcry included.
Did they push HL2 back to add more features? Perhaps. As long as they get it released, I don't care. I'm still waiting for Duke Nukem Forever.
I'm not sure how this would work in multiplayer though. Different character models have different girths. Wouldn't the skinny L337 Crew guy be harder to hit than Seal Team 6 with his thick padding? Not to mention custom models. Doom 3's multiplayer has just one single character model with different colors. That way, the per-polygon hit detection is equal for everyone. How are Doom 3 mod-makers going to handle hit detection though? Can they still jury-rig a default hitbox for different models? Or will they start giving different attributes and HP based on body shape and volume?
This may seem ignorant, but why would you use per-pixel over per-polygon? As I see it, the graphics are merely the visual represenation of the game state stored in memory. Per-pixel collision would be using that visual represenation as the basis for the game state, which seems to me like a weird way to do things, because then it would be influenced by stuff like resolution. Could someone please explain this?
-ReK
md5sum -c reality.md5
reality: FAILED
md5sum: WARNING: 1 of 1 computed checksum did NOT match
Thirty years from now, you won't own anything anymore. Evertyhing will be "services" and "subscriptions". Welcome to the new age of feudalism.
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Half Life 2's engine is not nearly as advanced as iD's but this is due more to the need for wide open environments in HL2 and Counterstrike Source than any inferiority at Valve.
So Id's engine is better because it can render a dark hole in the ground?
Hurrah for Valve and their wide open spaces - just say no to black holes (and crates!)
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating