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Recording Deals In The Digital Age

cascadefx writes "There is a really interesting panel wrap-up over at the National Association of Recording Industry Professionals's website. The Incredible Shrinking Profit Margin panel discussion looks like it included some interesting discussion into the deals that are made with performers now that the rules have changed. These notes offer interesting (perhaps hopeful) business predictions about Britney Spears' career as well as answering the (new)-age-old question about just how much an artist makes off of an iTunes download. Check it out."

140 comments

  1. Question is by dosius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why sell through the system at all anymore?

    FP?

    --
    What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    1. Re:Question is by Amiga+Lover · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > Why sell through the system at all anymore?

      Because you don't have a huge marketing machine behind you.

      Alright, that's only relevant to those artists who NEED a huge marketing machine behind them. There are plenty, PLENTY of good solid music producing people who can succeed on their own merits, given good enough distribution.

    2. Re:Question is by lavar78 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Alright, that's only relevant to those artists who NEED a huge marketing machine behind them. There are plenty, PLENTY of good solid music producing people who can succeed on their own merits, given good enough distribution.
      But the problem is getting good enough distribution without the huge marketing machine.
      --
      "Dave, I stand still--the conclusions jump to me!" - Bill McNeal, NewsRadio
    3. Re:Question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Because the system is so embedded it's all people know, and people work subconsciously for the system. A friend of mine who produces his own electronica used to distribute it via his webpage through his ISP. (iinet, in australia). Twice they pulled his account due to complaints about his offering copyrighted works. No explanation was given as to the nature of the complaints; not whether it was from people who claimed to be the true copyright holder, or just from mischievous people feeling good about "dobbing in someone with MP3s on their site".

      He's moved ISP now and things have been good for the last couple of months, but there's that spectre still above that distribution method. He's got a product he's made himself, and wants to sell it himself, and the system has worked against him.

    4. Re:Question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      True, but they don't make as much as they would with larger companies behind them. There are some bands behind very small record labels that get popular completely through word of mouth, but they don't get THAT popular. I'm not saying EVERYONE would like them if they heard them, but more people than the amount needed for a song to be played 5000 times a day on the radio. Some examples: Something Corporate, The Starting Line, Copeland, Hidden in Plain View, Fall Out Boy, The Early November, Brand New, and a lot more from Drive Thru Records. I have never heard a single song by any of them on the radio, but they are exceptional bands with incredible music. And they all have more talent than Britney Spears.

    5. Re:Question is by pjay_dml · · Score: 1

      We're on shlashdot, allow me the arrogance?!

      You are stating it wrong.

      => But the problem organizing on one's own merrits enough sales, without the huge maketing machine, to be able to get decent distribution , so to no longer have to worry about distribution .

    6. Re:Question is by LBArrettAnderson · · Score: 1

      And they all have more talent than Britney Spears.

      But that's not really saying much...



      (Really, but I've heard all of those bands and I agree that they are very good... Although I have to wonder if they're not that popular because they don't play the right style of music.)

    7. Re:Question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Really, but I've heard all of those bands and I agree that they are very good... Although I have to wonder if they're not that popular because they don't play the right style of music.)

      Probably because their music isn't unique. I took a listen to a sample of 4 of those bands. Sounds like the same stuff I already hear on the radio (especially on one of the university stations here). For some music lovers, each individual band that can produce Good Music is precious, for most I'd dare say that once a couple of bands have made the same buzzing pseudo-alternative sound, then anyone else coming along doing the same is already a has-been. And that's fair, many people aren't that interested in music in the first place, will hear something a bit new sounding and then move on.

      It's a bit like the monitor junkie wondering how so many people can buy shitty LCDs when there are quality CRTs out there, or auto enthusiasts who are into quality fast good-handling cars who wonder why people are driving SUVs and Saturns.

    8. Re:Question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd love to hear which of those bands isn't unique. On cdnow.com or wherever you listen to previews (better yet, download them), have a listen to Hurricane and Konstantine by Something Corporate... 2 of their best... Saddest girl song by the starting line... ANY song by copeland... belly full of kerosene by hidden in plain view.. Tell that mick he just made my list of things to do today by Fall Out Boy... (and also the patron saint of fakes and liars)... I want to hear you sad, and Sunday Drive by the early november... Sic Transit Gloria and Soco Ammorretto Lime (sp?) by Brand New.

    9. Re:Question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Why sell through the system at all anymore?


      We all know that the old saw "build a better moustrap and the world will beat a path to your door" is a load of crap. Nothing sells without Marketing and the best product is often buried by dreck because the dreck has better marketing.

      Linux only got traction beyond geek hobiests when there were companies (RedHat, IBM etc.) marketing it.

      It amazes me that folks that can realize that fact for the computer industry think that all a performer needs to be successful is talent.

      Sure, talent is great, but without a marketing machine behind you, you are just another starving artist who can't leave the day job behind.

      That's why.

    10. Re:Question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just listened to Konstantine and Hurricane. The guy can't sing for shit. The music sounds like it's from the mid 90s.

      Fall out boy sounds like a good green day clone (not that green day weren't themselves clones, or all that good). Copeland sounds like a slowed down Cordrazine.

      I stopped listening after those six tracks. Nothing unique here. It doesn't mean it's bad music, or you have bad taste, or you shouldn't listen and enjoy it, but they're hardly unique.

    11. Re:Question is by Dirtside · · Score: 2, Insightful
      But the problem is getting good enough distribution without the huge marketing machine.
      That's what the Internet is for.
      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    12. Re:Question is by pavese · · Score: 0

      Hmmm, is it normal, with an article like this, you expect another hoax? And why do I have this strange memory in the back of my head, that when Britney got succesful all of a sudden, it was only after a year old rerelease or something, that already back then, alcohol meant nothing to me? Maybe the world really was too dumb for the quite funny paradox release back then and I just kept hanging in a perpetual laugh ever since, forgetting all about the music. Which I didn't care about anyway, I mean to say, didn't like it back then, because it felt like a scam... :P

      Still, made me laugh, and I'm afraid that was enough... :/

    13. Re:Question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      are u ok?

    14. Re:Question is by mambodeath · · Score: 1

      >>And they all have more talent than Britney Spears.

      I don't know where you're from, but where I'm from we call what she has talent. Now her voice, that's a totally different question!

      --
      if you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.
  2. Brintey Spears' Career? by chill · · Score: 4, Funny

    Is she going into pr0n? At least in that case, if she opens her mouth, it'll be for a good reason!

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    1. Re:Brintey Spears' Career? by Timber_Z · · Score: 1

      Many bad people behave only because they fear punishment if they get cought.

      Yes I know this is off topic, mod me down anyway.

    2. Re:Brintey Spears' Career? by chill · · Score: 1

      Many bad people behave only because they fear punishment if they get cought.

      I'll bet that is only with minor crimes, not the major ones. "I'd kill Bob, but I'm afraid I'd get caught." just doesn't seem to work.

      Besides, my point is we have more than enough laws already. My sig is targeted at people who proclaim "there ought to be a law!". Frequently, there already is and we don't need another.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    3. Re:Brintey Spears' Career? by Dirtside · · Score: 1
      Is she going into pr0n? At least in that case, if she opens her mouth, it'll be for a good reason!
      Even if she's opening her mouth for the aforementioned, er, "good reason," I don't think we can take the risk that she might actually say something instead, thus causing a total cockblock meltdown. I'm just sayin'.
      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    4. Re:Brintey Spears' Career? by SharpNose · · Score: 1

      I predict that by 2008, our porn stars will be our pop stars and vice versa. Whole new meaning to the term, but our music videos will have "pop shots."

  3. Because by mcc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you sell through the system, talent is optional.

    If you sell outside the system, though, you have to succeed on your own merits.

    1. Re:Because by fermion · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Lets be fair. There are thousands of highly talented people out there. In the group that I run in, which is admittedly an artistic bunch, there are potential boy bands, folk trios, rock combos, rappers, 2D and 3D visual artists, performance artists, actors, writes, etc. All plenty talented to meet any local requirements, and possibly national requirements. Some are and have received limited success on their own merits.

      But to be a national act or international act, which is what the labels want, there has to be more. The act has to compete with the cheaper local stuff. The act has to have a basis to make the large newspaper and magazines. The act has to have a hook that can be spun and promoted and manipulated. The act has to want to be that famous so that it will make the artistic compromises.

      It is true that the compromises for a pop artist, to those of us that evaluate on artistic merit, are particularly gruesome. But I think all successful artists make these compromises. I often wonder if the music in a classical symphony enjoys playing the overture for Swan Lake for the millionth time in the exact same way. It probably does not matter as long as the rent gets paid.

      Ultimately pop music sells, so they must be doing something right. When classical was pop the reviews predicted the end of the art form. IIRC, the composers were called uncreative and barbarians. Spears has some cool stuff. She was nowhere near as creative as Madonna, and hopefully she spells the end of that particular formula, but if we are open we see that it is not as awful as we once thought.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  4. share croppers by loid_void · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Artists have always been share croppers for the man (record co's.. iTunes is the beginning of change. Artists, with guts, can make their deals direct with the new distribution channels, and they should, especially, anyone with a name that has a contract up for renewal.

    --
    Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
    1. Re:share croppers by aggiefalcon01 · · Score: 1

      Makes sense, with only one problem: getting lots of distribution through the new channel, without the huge marketing resources of the major labels. For the most part, talent should take care of this, and then let survival of the fittest take over.

      For the most part. Not always. So, it would seem that going indie is a great possibility for established bands nearing the end of their current contract, and I would suggest that any established band with a contract should consider it.

      They Might Be Giants has gone along this vein, although they've gone to the extreme of offering older songs free on their own website. I'd like to see other established bands go in this direction, and believe that that's what the future will bring us.

      --
      Global warming is neither science, nor politics. It is a religion.
    2. Re:share croppers by loid_void · · Score: 1

      Yes, the labels are marketers for the biggest acts, and pay-ola still exists at the radio level, but the bands, whether it was The Beatles or, eh hem, Britney Spears, have always had to "hit the road" to build the audience. It will be intersting to see what comes out of it all. Linkin Park has a huge following and besides touring, they have used their web site as an incredible marketing tool, and many new acts are finding their way to the fans through the Internet. If video killed the radio star, then perhaps the web can kill the both...

      --
      Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
  5. No web site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    narip.com is /.ed even before the first post?

    Anyone has a cache?

  6. All Hail the Great Predictor by cephyn · · Score: 4, Funny

    The prediction about Britney's career?

    "Britney Spears' career, as a pop artist, is over."

    Wow. That's some Insightful commentary. I mean, backing up a statement like that with support and facts and information is cool and all, but just one hopeful sentence like that is even COOLER.

    I'm going start predicting stuff like that. Hey, I predict that computer games will be different in the future.

    --
    Moo.
    1. Re:All Hail the Great Predictor by Carnildo · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm going start predicting stuff like that. Hey, I predict that computer games will be different in the future.

      I'm predicting computer games will be the same in the future. Hail Doom MCMXVIII!

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    2. Re:All Hail the Great Predictor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doom 1908?
      Rutherford will never know what hit him.

    3. Re:All Hail the Great Predictor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1918. You missed the X.

    4. Re:All Hail the Great Predictor by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      Britney's carrer as an aritst I don't think is over... but her ability to produce a #1 "pop" hit is something she'll likely never regain.

      There's a point beyond "cool" called "worn out"... and pop artists of all kinds have to avoid going there. Once you hit that point, you've made all the money you're really going to make and hopefully have the financial planning done so that you can live the rest of your life with break-even art the rest of the time.

  7. There's A Hope? by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "Britney Spears as a pop artist is over."

    It isn't Britney Spears I fear, but what comes after her. Seems to me that each iteration of manufactured talent is more sickening than the last. (One reason I don't watch American Idol, which seeks out the next 'talent' that fits the cookie cutter.)

    But consider that much of Spears' success was the performance. Sing, dance, strut about the stage, before spending the next few decades going from one failed relationship and addiction to the next until appearing on Good Morning America and announcing she's cleaned up, totally focused on life and ready for a comeback (no, not as a signer, but the next president.) Music downloads don't leave much room for performance, unless you plan to watchs someone frolic about on that miniscule screen on your cellphone. Admittedly, some acts have never had a top-ten song or little chart success anyway, but have enormous cult-like followings (i.e. Jimmy Buffet, are you a parrot head? ;-) and without enough curiousity or word-of-mouth, will people attend shows?

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:There's A Hope? by savagedome · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sing, dance, strut about the stage

      Sing?

    2. Re:There's A Hope? by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 1

      Ob MST3K ref:

      "Strut, pout, put it out, that's what you want from granma."

    3. Re:There's A Hope? by caudron · · Score: 1

      Sing?

      Dance?

      --
      -Tom
    4. Re:There's A Hope? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, each iteration has to appeal to a broader audience. Pop music seems so vapid because it has to be. Why do politicians hesitate from concrete statements? Because if you never say anything you don't piss anyone off. By not appealing to anyone, you are not unappealing to anyone. Music is very much the same

  8. Since it's slashdotted... by notyou2 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Obligatory google cache.

  9. Article Content by mpapet · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Site was very slow, probably /.'d Here's the text: The Incredible Shrinking Profit Margin Passion, anger, humor and realism are the order of the day at a lively NARIP panel on how major labels want more from artists and do less. One prediction: "Britney Spears is over." Reported by Scott G "Been there, done that, still doing it, but with new budget parameters." That seemed likely to be the summary of the National Association of Record Industry Professionals' (NARIP) "Incredible Shrinking Profit Margin" program, a look into how major labels are providing fewer services while attempting to grab a piece of artists' publishing, merchandising, touring and more. Boy, was I wrong. The session was funny, lively, controversial, cynical, hopeful and exciting. Before the session, it seemed that this topic would lead to a gloomy recitation of low sales figures. But the three panelists mixed facts and a fantastic amount of passion into their presentations - so much, in fact, that they would have goosed an audience even if they'd been discussing the phone book. Who's Who on the NARIP Panel: Participating in the discussion were Darryl Franklin (Business & Legal Affairs for Interscope, A&M, Geffen and DreamWorks Records), entertainment attorney Dina LaPolt (LaPolt Law) and Carol Peters (Peters Management Syndicate). Each has an excellent track record (see bios at the end of this story) and each brought a unique perspective to the evening's presentation. Negotiating a Record Deal: A prime attraction for this event was a mock negotiation of a major label contract for an up-and- coming band. Each panelist played himself in a hypothetical conversation. While this elicited excellent information and insights (along with much humorous banter), the hoped-for effect of the audience being a fly on the wall didn't always work because all three panelists kept stepping out of their mock negotiation with asides to the audience. The information was great; no one complained. In fact, NARIP President and panel moderator Tess Taylor rarely needed to ask follow-up questions, as the panel launched into responses in a freewheeling yet coherent onslaught of ideas, fee ranges and controversial deal points. Some selected gems: Franklin, on the ephemeral nature of the record industry: "Britney Spears as a pop artist is over." LaPolt, on the next big area for artist/producer/publisher/record company profits: Mobile phone rights. "Know the four parts of mobile phone rights: master, sync, image, and Java games." Peters, on the change from physical to digital sales: "Who is the traditional market for records? 14-24 year-olds. It's ironic, but the core record buyers are not buying records." Franklin, on the profit-taking of phone corporations when their services offer downloads: "Phone companies take 50% of all downloads." Another observation raised a few eyebrows: "The phone could replace the iPod." LaPolt, on fees that game companies pay to license songs: "They're tiny. Incredibly tiny. And it's inefficient. EA (Electronic Arts) will clear 60 masters, then use just 15 songs in a game, all at low rates. And they want to pay these low rates on a buyout basis, with no share of revenue, no points, and no step-deals." Peters, on the current state of affairs in the recording industry: "The record business right now is like musical 'Survivor'." Franklin, sending a warning to MTV: "There's a new video channel in town. Watch for Fuse TV." LaPolt, on the future: "There is new music coming, real diversity of music, and it will be a rebirth of the record industry." The Bottom Line: The LaPolt Law handout on "Traditional Major Label Royalty Computation" was itself nearly worth the price of admission as it revealed the formula used by record companies to retain a much higher amount of money than might otherwise be expected from the way the artist contract is worded. There's a reason major label artist payments are known as a "penny rate." In addition, the NARIP-supplied "iTunes Artist-Producer Royalty Calculation" sheet was fa

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
    1. Re:Article Content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's the completely unformatted and hard-to-read content, anyway ...

  10. Another interesting resource... by Sheetrock · · Score: 5, Informative
    I happened across Frontline: the way the music died the other night (PBS program watchable online in low or high bandwidth.)

    Good stuff -- they interview record execs and former/current/hopeful musicians and explain the sorts of problems the industry is facing. While people stealing music online is a factor, lesser-known factors are also discussed including the fact that sales figures may be sinking because people are finished replacing their record collections with CDs.

    --

    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    1. Re:Another interesting resource... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean, of course, infringing on copyrights online. Copying a file is not the same as running into a store, holding the clerk and gun point, and running out with your favorite CD. Treating kids like criminals for copying files is ridiculous, and if you can seriously prove that they cost you money the fines should be realistic -- not this huge extortion scheme we have going now.

      welcome to america, home of the free corporations and slave to humanity!

  11. Re:Just in Case of Slashdoting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Count yourself lucky. I found the file and it's a 30 second read and a big snooze to boot.

  12. Here's the article text... by Dzimas · · Score: 0, Redundant

    The Incredible Shrinking Profit Margin Passion, anger, humor and realism are the order of the day at a lively NARIP panel on how major labels want more from artists and do less. One prediction: "Britney Spears is over." Reported by Scott G "Been there, done that, still doing it, but with new budget parameters." That seemed likely to be the summary of the National Association of Record Industry Professionals' (NARIP) "Incredible Shrinking Profit Margin" program, a look into how major labels are providing fewer services while attempting to grab a piece of artists' publishing, merchandising, touring and more. Boy, was I wrong. The session was funny, lively, controversial, cynical, hopeful and exciting. Before the session, it seemed that this topic would lead to a gloomy recitation of low sales figures. But the three panelists mixed facts and a fantastic amount of passion into their presentations - so much, in fact, that they would have goosed an audience even if they'd been discussing the phone book. Who's Who on the NARIP Panel: Participating in the discussion were Darryl Franklin (Business & Legal Affairs for Interscope, A&M, Geffen and DreamWorks Records), entertainment attorney Dina LaPolt (LaPolt Law) and Carol Peters (Peters Management Syndicate). Each has an excellent track record (see bios at the end of this story) and each brought a unique perspective to the evening's presentation. Negotiating a Record Deal: A prime attraction for this event was a mock negotiation of a major label contract for an up-and- coming band. Each panelist played himself in a hypothetical conversation. While this elicited excellent information and insights (along with much humorous banter), the hoped-for effect of the audience being a fly on the wall didn't always work because all three panelists kept stepping out of their mock negotiation with asides to the audience. The information was great; no one complained. In fact, NARIP President and panel moderator Tess Taylor rarely needed to ask follow-up questions, as the panel launched into responses in a freewheeling yet coherent onslaught of ideas, fee ranges and controversial deal points. Some selected gems: Franklin, on the ephemeral nature of the record industry: "Britney Spears as a pop artist is over." LaPolt, on the next big area for artist/producer/publisher/record company profits: Mobile phone rights. "Know the four parts of mobile phone rights: master, sync, image, and Java games." Peters, on the change from physical to digital sales: "Who is the traditional market for records? 14-24 year-olds. It's ironic, but the core record buyers are not buying records." Franklin, on the profit-taking of phone corporations when their services offer downloads: "Phone companies take 50% of all downloads." Another observation raised a few eyebrows: "The phone could replace the iPod." LaPolt, on fees that game companies pay to license songs: "They're tiny. Incredibly tiny. And it's inefficient. EA (Electronic Arts) will clear 60 masters, then use just 15 songs in a game, all at low rates. And they want to pay these low rates on a buyout basis, with no share of revenue, no points, and no step-deals." Peters, on the current state of affairs in the recording industry: "The record business right now is like musical 'Survivor'." Franklin, sending a warning to MTV: "There's a new video channel in town. Watch for Fuse TV." LaPolt, on the future: "There is new music coming, real diversity of music, and it will be a rebirth of the record industry." The Bottom Line: The LaPolt Law handout on "Traditional Major Label Royalty Computation" was itself nearly worth the price of admission as it revealed the formula used by record companies to retain a much higher amount of money than might otherwise be expected from the way the artist contract is worded. There's a reason major label artist payments are known as a "penny rate." In addition, the NARIP-supplied "iTunes Artist-Producer Royalty Calculation" sheet was fascinating because it answers the question all artists on iTunes keep as

  13. Changing industry by Sefert · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The music industry is changing, along with the movie industry. Distribution channels are changing, and as such the method of getting your margin is going to change too. The RIAA's job of seeming to try and protect what is soon to be an outdated distribution scheme is pointless for the long term, and irritating for the short. A slimmer profit margin is no big deal, when you consider that it's not a few hundred companies trying to support their insfrastructure, but rather a half dozen online firms supporting theirs. Let's not forget that online distributors will never get caught with extra inventory. It's hard to run out of warehouse space. They have to worry less about shipments. In short, thinner margins that are consistent fit the business model. It's nothing to whine about, though of course the RIAA always has to find some large stick to shove in the wrong place.

    1. Re:Changing industry by KaiserSoze · · Score: 1

      I don't think the distribution is such a big part of the cartel's leverage anymore. With an ever-expanding amount of choices available to the average consumer, the important thing now is the money for advertising and promotion. How do acts that sign strictly with iTunes get their name into the public conciousness? The cartel brings that money and promotional power to the table.

      --

      "What we elect to call imagination is mere combination of things not heretofore combined." - Frank Norris

    2. Re:Changing industry by Sefert · · Score: 1

      Touche - but this cash always has to come out of sales. Ultimately, isn't ITunes and crowd going to control the marketing (at least the online portion of it)? Cartels still have the power to promote, but it's hard to promote an individual album - and concert promoters are generally happy to do little better than break even. Distribution was easy money - sell 1 million albums - make 4 bucks off each album. With the distribution gone, who will now pay the cartels to promote and advertise? They have no incentive to do it themselves if they're not getting a piece of the distribution pie.

    3. Re:Changing industry by KaiserSoze · · Score: 1

      Well, for the most part I think that sales follow promotion. That is, the industry will generally keep to its sales figures if it follows the same promotional model. It's not that I believe that iTunes is not cool or not a good step in the right direction, because they are both those things. I just don't think that iTunes, or even the current online sales model alone, is a sea change to the entire record industry.

      --

      "What we elect to call imagination is mere combination of things not heretofore combined." - Frank Norris

    4. Re:Changing industry by cdrguru · · Score: 1
      Distribution is not changing. At least not yet for the majority of the world. OK, you, the uber-geek Slashdot reader can go out and download whatever you want and faithfully are ready and waiting with credit card in hand to purchase music online.

      What about the rest of the world?

      • Broadband is up to around 60% penetration in the US, up from 53% recently. What about the rest of the world? It varies. The US isn't necessarily the highest penetration, but other large-population countries I believe are significantly behind. Like India, China and Russia. I think Norway is probably ahead. Still, downloading music on dial-up really, really sucks.
      • Europe and Japan have perhaps 25% of the credit-card penetration that exists in the US. How would these people pay at iTunes? There may be a solution coming for a Euro-iTunes, but I don't know of it.
      • Online purchases are still lagging way, way behind brick-and-mortar sales. Many people (almost most) do not trust online sales. They are afraid of being ripped off or spammed to death.

      Once these problems are solved, then you can talk about the existing distribution being replaced utterly. Until then, remember the rest of the world isn't like you and will take years to catch up. So, it is likely that RIAA and Sam Goody (a music store) will be with us for a while to come.

    5. Re:Changing industry by Sefert · · Score: 1

      I gotta disagree. Although you're right that it's early in the game, I think that it's coming sooner than you think. Take movies, by example. Up here in Canada a couple of our big cable providers are already providing movies on demand - movies that you can pause, rewind, etc. Companies like Blockbuster video are suffering serious losses as a result, and when the cable companies can start providing a selection as large as the video store, which is likely within the next two or three years, the retail video stores are screwed. Though audio is still new to the online distribution scene, I think you're drastically underestimating the sophistication of the average youth of today. Combine that with aggressive marketing by people like i-tunes, this distribution model will be the norm in a few years, not the exception. Will the record store fall by the wayside like a video store? I doubt it - people will still want to browse and have a physical CD. As an interesting aside, I suspect the countries you mentioned that are behind on broadband penetration because of horrible infrastructure may leap past wired broadband right to wireless broadband. Not that it matters - they don't have much money to spend anyway on frivolities like music...

  14. Brit twit by loid_void · · Score: 1

    Britney, no matter what you think, will suprise them all and having someone at that Assc. make predictions is no better than a prediction from a 5 dollar card reader, and what a shitty site..., oh, I have a prediction, it crashes any second, 1,2,3...

    --
    Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
  15. Seems to be more of the same tripe... by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They say that their core buyers aren't buying. IIRC, every year, the recording industry beats inflation in terms of revenue and profit growth but they keep saying that they are going down the drain. And now this recording professionals group seems to be parroting the same line. That is one drain I'd like to go down.

    I'm not saying file sharing is necessarily good for them but it seems to be a case where they are trying to get enough people to say they are losing money often enough such that everyone believes them even if the facts are the opposite.

    1. Re:Seems to be more of the same tripe... by wattersa · · Score: 1

      I thought the idea was that since their core buyers aren't buying, the labels end up screwing over the artists with less favorable terms so the labels can stay profitable

    2. Re:Seems to be more of the same tripe... by AgTiger · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If the core buyers aren't buying, Someone is.

      "Not only is the CD format alive and well, but it's emerging from the "online" revolution looking healthier than ever. 92 per cent of DRM-store downloaders surveyed by Entertainment Media Research prefer the plastic platters to their MP3 downloads..."

  16. Google cache by lothar97 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Text only from Google's cache

    --

    1. Re:Google cache by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Karma whore.

  17. Artist get a dime of every dollar... by 3seas · · Score: 1

    .... thats not good enough!!!!!

    It can be done much better.

    Lets face it, a sales person gets at best 30%... Typically 10-15%

    Why should it be any different here?

    Because the sales person can be automated.

    1. Re:Artist get a dime of every dollar... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I sold about $5 million in software last year for a publicly traded company. I saw nowhere close to 30% or even 10%. (of course that had something to do with why I quit)

  18. Bad deal by cubicledrone · · Score: 3, Interesting

    EA (Electronic Arts) will clear 60 masters, then use just 15 songs in a game, all at low rates. And they want to pay these low rates on a buyout basis, with no share of revenue, no points, and no step-deals.

    That's nice. I'd like a convertible with bucket seats and a six-speaker audio system. "They want" "They want" "They want" It's nonsense.

    Here's the product. Here's the price, LICENSED for a limited period in a specific market excluding all others. 15% advance in TALL LONG GREEN CASH DOLLARS WALKIN' DOWN THE BOULEFUCKINGVARD starting day one with a double-the-rate step up when the clouds part. Two minutes and we fold up the card table. Here's a pen.

    Artists own 100% before they sign the deal. The best way to make a good deal is not to make a bad deal.

    Phone companies take 50% of all downloads

    Only if the artists agree.

    "The phone could replace the iPod

    Everyone wants to be Apple.

    --
    Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    1. Re:Bad deal by PCM2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fair enough. But then again, maybe there's a distinction to be made between music that is produced as art and music that's produced as product.

      A friend of mine was approached by Electronic Arts to record maybe a couple dozen songs for a Sims expansion and The Sims 2, at a rate of $1,000 per song (buyout, as cited -- all rights included). He accomplished this, with the help of a few local musicians that he paid very little, in roughly 48 hours of studio time. He did it as product; nothing more, nothing less. As far as he's concerned, he got a pretty good deal.

      Now, this case is sort of an exception, because all of the lyrics to the songs have to be in Simlish. Pretty hard to find a market for that outside the franchise. But even if that weren't the case, is he really screwing himself, in your estimation?

      As a magazine editor, I regularly publish lots of work by authors who give up all rights to the material they produce. Very few of them have ever come back looking to reclaim those articles. They did that writing for money, just like my friend recorded those songs for money. And I've done the same, and I don't really regret it.

      Seems to me this notion of artists licensing their work to labels is just some kind of backlash to all this talk you hear about corporations wanting consumers to "license" their software and recordings. The way the corporation wants it, you never buy a CD, you license it. You never buy a disc of software, you license it. That sucks. So, great -- is the solution really for individuals to start acting like corporations?

      Whatever happened to getting hired to do a job and doing it, or producing a product and selling it, getting paid, and moving on to the next thing with the satisfaction of being an ethical businessman?

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    2. Re:Bad deal by cubicledrone · · Score: 1

      But even if that weren't the case, is he really screwing himself, in your estimation?

      Well, the Sims grossed about $325 million. Two dozen songs at $1000 each is $24,000. That's pretty thin for a nine-figure gross.

      They did that writing for money, just like my friend recorded those songs for money. And I've done the same, and I don't really regret it.

      Yeah, if it's a work for hire, that's one thing. But an author owns their work under copyright law. It really should be up to them and they should understand what they're selling when they sign these boilerplate agreements where they get nothing and Company Inc. gets everything. I have regularly seen "publishing agreements" for example, demanding "universal perpetual royalty-free rights" and people wonder if they should sign them.

      The way the corporation wants it, you never buy a CD, you license it. You never buy a disc of software, you license it. That sucks.

      Agreed.

      So, great -- is the solution really for individuals to start acting like corporations?

      If Company Inc. is going to stuff $300 million in their pocket, the people who built the product should get paid, and paid well. They should not feel shitty when they insist their hard work not be de-valued to the point where the hourly rate for negotiating the agreement exceeds the payment.

      --
      Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    3. Re:Bad deal by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1
      The difference is that Music artist/novelists write the music/novels intending to use their constitutional "right" to copyright protection and royalties. They are just looking for somebody to market their stuff the way Toys-r-US markets action figures. The issue is that somewhere along the line the publishers figured out they could hire a zillion people to work on a project and call it "work for hire" there by cutting out any one or two individuals from any direct profits...

      There are many differences between your friend and a record contract. your friend bears resembleance to most programmers...our boss hires us for a job to write accounts receivable routine on the mainframe..we write the routine and get paid...the boss owns the software. Musical artists on the other hand create a work and then sell the rights to a publisher. They have to take all the recording fees, marketing fees, etc out of said "paycheck" [greately diminishing the real value of the payment] which makes them truely the owners of the work. The record industry is using the old "company store" tactics... for a programmer it's much like a company hiring you as a "consultant" [w/o benifits, etc] to write some code then charging you rent for the desk and time on their mainframe by taking it back from your paycheck. Most free-lance software consultants [or companies that do that work] if they have to foot the bill to do the work off-site always retain the right to reuse that code in other parts of their business [per the usual NDA's and such] that allows them to build up proprietary librarys of functions to improve their efficency at further projects. The standard record contract is designed to specificly stop such stuff from ever happening by locking rights up in so much red tape.

    4. Re:Bad deal by doormat · · Score: 1

      Choice...

      If I want Windows, I have to buy it (in some way, shape or form) from Microsoft. If Microsoft wants some background music, they have any number of artists to choose from. Its about who wants what. Consumers want a very particular item, the corporation wants a generic item. Wanting something very specific limits your power in negotiations, and if the other side can walk away and look for other opportunities, you're pretty much stuck.

      --
      The Doormat

      If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
  19. The Price IS Right! by ngkdc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They just don't get it ... do they? They charged admission to hear this great theory of business. Oh, and you can get a CD of the proceedings ... for $20. Quite accurately, they pointed out that their target audience just isn't buying records anymore. Oh the shock and horror of it all! Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results -- according to Einstein. Maybe that's it ... that's the answer ... the recording cartel (let's not pretend that it's an industry) is collectively insane. That's a much kinder, gentler (though less accurate) view than to say that the recording cartel is stupid and clueless. Even though I'm outside their demographics (no, I'm not at the low end!), I'll continue to buy music I like ... from the artist directly.

  20. On Spears and the record labels. by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If everyone shares the general opinion that people like Ms Sears and the rest of the crap spewed by the record labels isn't worth paying for, then who is doing the buying? I hate to break it to you, but there just isn't that much baby sitting money going around for the CDs to be purchased by pre-teens. Spears, Backstreet Boys etc SELL! Thats why they exist. Whats more, saying that the music is crap so they shouldn't get mad when I download it is basackwards. If its crap, there should be zero piracy. Why would you want to download it? If music is worth the download, its worth the 15$ for the CD. Everyone proclaiming the music to be bad seems to just be trying to come up with a reason to justify their disregard for the work of others.

    That having been said, I think the music is crap. But you wont catch me downloading it. For music I like, the cost of the CD is nothing VS the amount of enjoyment I get from it.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:On Spears and the record labels. by tsotha · · Score: 1
      If music is worth the download, its worth the 15$ for the CD

      Er... no. If it's worth the download for free, it might be worth some amount of money. It might be worth the $0.99 for the iTunes download (or whatever they raised it to). It might be worth $5 for the used CD. But just because the recording industry decided they make the most money by charging $15 for a CD doesn't mean it's gonna be worth $15 to everyone.

    2. Re:On Spears and the record labels. by WindowLicker916 · · Score: 1

      I don't think you have taken into account that most cd's from even great artist only have a few good songs and a bunch of bad songs. So with that in mind I will have payed $17.99 plus tax and drove to the store so I could listen to 3 good songs. I could download it for free or pay $3 for three tracks. Seems like a good deal, but it's a bad deal for the artist either way. This is a new distribution model too. No time flat they will change it and in some way or form it's going to screw the consumer. And what about the artist and their money? Though 50cent has some catchy songs and got real popular, I don't feel it is moral to support this piece of #$!% human who use to gang bang and might still. He glorizes gangsters, takes pride in that he got shot 9 times and wears a bullet proof vest, and in the mean while he gets filthy rich and the RIAA gets even richer for feeding this BS and this image to children. Plenty of examples of that in the mainstream rap/hip-hop genre. I say the RIAA needs to go. There are other ways to distribue music and advertise now.

    3. Re:On Spears and the record labels. by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      general opinion that people like Ms Sears
      Oh no, Britnney has gone that far done the crapper that she is now Bob Villa's bitch?

  21. Anyone notice . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that there is rip in NARIP?

    The karma could be for ripping CD's or it could be for ripping off the artists.

  22. Buying music online = ripping off support staff by killbill! · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Slightly offtopic since this is not mentioned in the article at all, but since we're talking about recording deals...

    Don't buy music from sites like the iTMS or Napster. Ever. According to this article French Apple enthusiast site Mac Bidouille, support personel (eg dancers, clip director, sound techs etc) are not getting their cut from legal online sales.
    The reason? Record labels are unwilling to change their contracts, which ties royalties to the sales of physical media, not the song itself. That's outrageous. That's outright theft, pure and simple.

    (Article is in French. Grab a translation here.)


    Support the little guys. Download your albums off Suprnova NOW! ;p

    1. Re:Buying music online = ripping off support staff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dancers, clip director

      and how do these people enhance my listening pleasure?

    2. Re:Buying music online = ripping off support staff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So wait, its all of a sudden APPLE'S and NAPSTERS duty to make sure the Record Co's are Honest???

      WTFLOLBBQ!?!

    3. Re:Buying music online = ripping off support staff by bhny · · Score: 4, Informative

      dancers, clip directors, sound techs have never got any money from music sales.

    4. Re:Buying music online = ripping off support staff by ljavelin · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, why is someone trying to protect the identity of this "evil" label in this article? Why was the label's name edited out? This article and claim is very fishy, and therefore I give it zero weight.

      In any case, if true, it sounds like someone stupidly agreed to a bad contract. ALWAYS get a lawyer before agreeing to a new contract. They're there to protect YOUR rights. Don't pay attention to people who say that you don't need one, or that they're evil. COVER YOU BUTT.

      IANAL.

    5. Re:Buying music online = ripping off support staff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As "support staff", let me tell you: I've never ever worked on a royalty basis. I either worked salary or hourly or under a fixed price contract. No exceptions.

      Maybe they do it differently in France.

    6. Re:Buying music online = ripping off support staff by westneat · · Score: 1

      I think the article he links to is actually talking about the producer. I don't see any references to dancers in it, and from the description of an art director, that sounds like a producer. It also says that the artists don't get paid royalties from internet sales. While it may not be illegal, it is certainly evil.

    7. Re:Buying music online = ripping off support staff by killbill! · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just to clarify... in France they do.

      French copyright law is slightly different from UK/US copyright law. Its basis is not "copyright" (the right to copy), but "droits d'auteur" ("author rights"). It does not revolve about control of the work, but rather around making sure authors get fair compensation.

      Under French copyright law, sound techs (in post-production), dancers, clip directors are considered as co-authors, as much as the songwriter, musicians or the main performer, and thus get a cut from sales.

      What French (and other mainland European) artistic-technical support staff are complaining about is that the labels are using this change in the medium as a Trojan horse to deprive them of the rights they used to benefit from under the traditional copyright system.

      Since all labels are using this trick, and since artistic-technical staff have no have no say in choosing the label they are contracted with (the main performer's manager does), they are basically shafted.

  23. A GREAT SONG CAN BE SUNG BY ANYONE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have had monopolies in the past due to lack of personally available technology.

    That time is coming to an end.

    Time to start updating practices inline with technology or get left behind. Hundreds of jobs don't exist anymore because the work could be done more efficiently by a machine.

    The recording industry needs to face facts, people CAN and therefore WILL ...

    If a singer is good, let them make money from concerts, and of course higher quality recordings of songs they sing (which usually are written by somebody else).

    Now the sting. How about letting a few people sing the same song so WE CAN CHOOSE the version we like????

  24. Spin off technologies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we didn't have sleezy record company execs we may never have had lord of the rings!

  25. Conspiracy Theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Something occurred to me recently which I hope is on topic:
    Stars lose money on the first couple records-all the down payments for promotion and limosines etc. The record company provides these services and makes money.
    When stars are established and put out multiple top selling albums, the Stars become more powerful than the record companies (Madonna, U2).

    Most acts don't get to that point because they have no talent. Some acts don't get to that point because they over-dose and self destruct despite the fact that they have multiple examples of how not to handle their career.

    Question: Do the record companies encourage drug addiction and over the top lifestyles in the hopes that stars self destruct before reaching the point of financial independence?

    1. Re:Conspiracy Theory by xenlab · · Score: 1

      Interesting theory. However, the two examples cited were very savvy business folks and didn't get put over a barrell. But no-talent hacks, like much of the manufactured artists out there, cry when their career is lost - but if they lived in reality they would realize that the rug could get pulled out from under them at any minute - but most delude themselves into thinking that they are taltented and will be famous forever. ... Math Music Community: http://www.ezrpm.com/

      --
      - my girlfriend can beat up your girlfriend.
  26. How about the Prince Model by Brigadier · · Score: 4, Interesting



    Reading an article recently on Prince's sales model. He makes $7.50 for each $10 CD. He controls distribution, handling advertising everything. If you've noticed the bill board charts lately his latest CD is doing well. My GF is a member of his sight where she can hang with other fanatics, or famatics as they call themselves. Prince has even managed to circumvent Ticketmaster to an extent. He sells a percentage of the floor seats through his site directly to his fans. I think everyone will agree that he is also the opposing force to any manufactured talent out there.

    1. Re:How about the Prince Model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only problem is, that the Prince name itself has a huge value when it comes to (self)promotion, including fan base, existing connections and just in "brand recognition". I would say, it could worth easily a 7 figure. This is exactly the very similar marketing power the big labels use to promote their favourites. Not to mention, that Prince made enough money previously to self finance his next project.

      Now, how does a no name garage band, with no capital compares to this?

    2. Re:How about the Prince Model by ThumpSlice · · Score: 1

      Prince's sales model includes something most unknown artists don't have -- a (mostly) sold out tour. Prince hands out a copy of his latest CD at the door and counts each concert ticket sold as a sale for his CD. If you don't count people who've been to a concert, his sales haven't been that good. How's an unknown supposed to make that work when (by definition) they're not able to sell out large venues? Prince couldn't have built his reputation this way, he's only able to capitalize on his existing reputation.

      --
      -- If you're posting to be funny, and your sig is funnier . . . .
  27. Re:Advice, please by ratsnapple+tea · · Score: 2, Funny

    But I'm on a no-carb diet. Looks like it's gonna be rum.

  28. What do you mean, *only* ten percent? by Angst+Badger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Don't get me wrong -- I have great sympathy for musicians, other artists, and everyone else trying to get their fair share, but I can tell you that my salary as a programmer would be in the high six digits if I was paid 10% of the revenue my software generates for my employer. The artists' percentage alone is not really cause for much sympathy.

    What is royally fucked is the fact that artists could command much higher percentages if the music industry wasn't dominated by a cartel with the aid and abettance of easily-purchased legislators.

    --
    Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
    1. Re:What do you mean, *only* ten percent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10% net profit margins in any business is darn good. Hell anything greater than 5% and you're doing great. The 35% that goes to ITunes and the music company are merely revenue numbers. They aren't even gross profit numbers. Subtract off SG&A and other cap-exp, Apple probably barely turns a profit from the music itself. Most of the profits come from the Ipod. The music company pays for all those promo-trips, marketing, music videos, etc. It doesn't come out of the artist's pocket. What the artists recieves is a big fat check. Yeah, the taxman will take a nice bite out of it, so he'll end up with probably around 5-6%

      I certainly won't loose sleep worrying about some guy making greater than 5% net, when the majority of all businesses in the world make less than that. Corporate, Sole-proprietorship, or otherwise.

      You guys posting about how poorly the artists are treated really crack me up. Man...if only I could get 10% of the revenues from my work. LOL.

  29. Best line of the article by BandwidthHog · · Score: 2, Funny

    "CDs of program available: $20."

    Score: +17, Still-don't-get-it

    --

    Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
  30. CD of the discussion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Can I get this on Kazaa?

  31. So punishment == deterrent, then. by aggiefalcon01 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Along that line, then: do you support capital punishment? The murder rate in Texas seems to prove the above point ...

    --
    Global warming is neither science, nor politics. It is a religion.
    1. Re:So punishment == deterrent, then. by Timber_Z · · Score: 1

      Eye for an Eye. If murder was a one month in jail punishment, I'm sure many more people would go around killing people.

    2. Re:So punishment == deterrent, then. by The+Only+Druid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not sure if its worth mentioning, but the old line that "the theory 'eye for an eye' leaves us all blind" is still largely true. More disturbingly, it suggests that rehabilitation is completely impossible.

      --
      "Stumble before you crawl"
    3. Re:So punishment == deterrent, then. by aggiefalcon01 · · Score: 1

      Which would be why, even though we instantiate it in extreme cases, our system for the most part falls in between the extremes instead.

      --
      Global warming is neither science, nor politics. It is a religion.
    4. Re:So punishment == deterrent, then. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > More disturbingly, it suggests that rehabilitation is completely impossible.

      Well, frequently that is indeed the case. Around here we have a case of a child molester convicted 11 (yes, that is eleven) times and he still get paroles. I wonder how much proof is required these days.

  32. Re: Not funny. Insightful. by aggiefalcon01 · · Score: 1

    Very good point. She lip-syncs. Any wonder why she can't perform if there's no electricity, or in a tiny venue? Strange that she can cavort around stage exercising and sweating, but she never ever sounds out of breath.

    Similarly, Shania Twain a couple of Superbowls ago. She was clapping her hand to the music, against the wrist of the hand holding the microphone. Funny, though, the sound of her clapping didn't come through. Sure could hear the music & voice, though.

    --
    Global warming is neither science, nor politics. It is a religion.
  33. how much it's worth by aggiefalcon01 · · Score: 1

    If music is worth the download, its worth the 15$ for the CD.

    Um ... not just no, but hell no. There's a HUGE difference between paying $0 (the case in downloading) and paying $15 and going through the hassle of making MP3's (the case in CD-buying).

    My point? People who're willing to listen to crap music for free are not necessarily willing to buy crap music for $15.

    --
    Global warming is neither science, nor politics. It is a religion.
  34. On Britney Spears by Qbertino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do please believe me: the last thing I am is a Britney Spears fan. I couldn't even remember a tune from her.

    But to get things straight: She's been professionally singing and performing in Musicals on Broadway since about the age of 10. _professionally_, _singing_, _performing_, _age of 10_. Get it?
    The age when us kind was gaming on atari or SNES and was at least 3 years away from even doing our first lines of basic. She's a performer and an entertainer, and, believe it or not, she's damn good at it. With the support of an uber-patient mother and father she's worked herself up from that girl next door to somebody who's got a licence to print money. 'Tell you what: Go eat your hearts out.

    Bottom Line: I'd suggest the slashdot crowd quit babbling on stuff they can't summon the slightest shade of competence on (popular stage performance and entertainment) and go back to comparing sendmail and postfix. After all, that's what we're actually good at.
    Thank you.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:On Britney Spears by MarsDefenseMinister · · Score: 2, Funny

      Good God, what will we hear next? That Martha Stewart is a fantastic businesswoman AND can bake a damn good cake?

      Oh wait, that's true too.

      --
      No weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men.-Ronald Reagan
    2. Re:On Britney Spears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You've overlooked one obvious point. It doesn't matter how long she's been doing it, she still sucks.

    3. Re:On Britney Spears by Perky_Goth · · Score: 1

      1: she still sucks at it.
      2: she doesn't sing live, as seen in recent Rock in Rio

    4. Re:On Britney Spears by k-zed · · Score: 0
      The age when us kind was gaming on atari or SNES and was at least 3 years away from even doing our first lines of basic.

      Some of us have been programming for 5 years in that age.
      --
      we discovered a new way to think.
    5. Re:On Britney Spears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, well I've been producing and playing music for the last 15 years or so. She doesn't sing live. She can't sing for crap on her albums without the use of a lot of pitch-correcting software (can anybody else in here say Antares auto-tune?)

      Lots of people perform on Broadway. Doesn't mean they're good singers. Kevin Spacey, Martin Short, Tim Robbins, Barbara Streisand are all fine examples of people who have performed on Broadway but can't sing.

    6. Re:On Britney Spears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She doesn't actually use Antares anymore; there's some other DX plugin they've got her using instead.

      Same principle, though.

      Although ...Baby One More Time is the shining mould most other pop songs try to fill. Respect it, it's perfect pop, and at least part of that is due to teeny tiny Britney's performance in the studio (rather light on the pitch correction actually) and in the great video... there's some talent there. It's not all hers, but still talent.

      Since then, though...

  35. Dancers? DANCERS????? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    You know, when I buy music I like to imagine that DANCERS are not getting me money, mainly because I cannot SEE them.

    Perhaps (and only perhaps) I could see them getting a cut of video sales. But even then I'm iiffy on it They are hired to do a job. They don't have to dance.

    Why should everyone get a percentage instead of just a payment? I'm technical myself but I think there are very few people in the chain that really deserve a cut for every album sold. If a local band records a demo in a rented studio that turns into a big hit, should the janitor that works there get a cut? Or the guy outside asking for change? I'm a firm believer that the artists themselves are the only ones that really deserve whatever is left over in profits from the sale of each album (and perhaps agent and records companies if the artists could not do that on thier own).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  36. Re:I think this story is offtopic by samberdoo · · Score: 0

    Pretty touchy stupid moderator

  37. Re:"Britney Spears as a pop artist is over." by Paladin144 · · Score: 1
    She's been nothing but a slut all along, I think her only future is in porn films, Hell i'd pay to see that bitch take it in the ass,suck cock and swallow loads of cum maybe some lesbian stuff too! Yeah, that's her future.

    The parent got modded flamebait for the above comment, but is it really debatable?

    Hell, I understand the allure. I'm a lonely slashdotter on a friday night, and it would be nice to, uh... hang... with a girl like that for awhile. But we all know she has no substance, and no... ya know, mystery about her. What you see is what you get. I long for the day when music of substance returns, just like everyone else...but did it ever really leave? Or did the public get sucked down the corporate-pop drainpipe?

    There are still artists of integrity, soul, and majesty out there now, playing in empty clubs, or their own basements. We, as the public, need to find them. Really, it's just a matter of looking - the internet makes this possible.

    I think Britney's time may be coming to an end. Music of substance and power will find its way back to us as we struggle to find it. I've discovered some incredible east asian folk music recently, and it's some of the most eerie and amazing music I've ever heard. Great songs are out there, we just need to find them, and quit BITCHING all the time about how corporate america doesn't deliver the music we require upon a silver platter. Until we seek out new/old music we deserve that poptripe.

  38. record deals by FrankHaynes · · Score: 1

    I just got an XM radio and have been looking up biographies of the bands I have been listening to from the 1980s and 1990s. Invariably they talk about "getting a record deal" or "signed with a label".

    What exactly does this mean? Who gets what and who is obligated to do what? Why were they so eager? This is the old model, of course.

    A post farther down here states that support staff don't get their cut if you download off iTunes Music Store and similar under the new model, so maybe some insight there would be +5, informative.

    Why would bands sign with the big, bad record companies if these stories of indentured servitude that have been promulgated by earlier bands were true?

    Thank you for any insight.

    --
    slashdot: A failed experiment.
    1. Re:record deals by NickRipley · · Score: 1

      Artists need the channels that a label can offer, mainly distribution.

      I know that my band is currently looking into things of this nature right now, and let me tell you, it's hard to get your stuff into stores right now. There is such a fierce competition for the dollars of the consumer, and a label seems like an amazing avenue to make things happen.

      --
      http://cassettefetish.com
    2. Re:record deals by glenstar · · Score: 1
      As someone in the DMS business, let me tell you that it is *much* easier to deal directly with labels and/or content aggregators (CDBaby, the Orchard, etc...) than it is with hundreds and thousands of individual artists. First of all, dealing with labels/aggregators means a single point of contact. It also means one check to be sent out. Finally, it means that I do not have to worry about royalties being paid to the artists... that is up to the labels/aggregators. It makes my life easier.

      That being said, it would be nice to be able to guarantee that artists are actually making money when their product is sold on netmusic.com. We did look into a mechanism to accomplish this, but there are several barriers to entry. The most important one has to do with the relationship between an artist and a label. Labels generally loan money to artists (the advance) to allow the artist to record, tour, etc... The record label then takes that money back from sales (recoupment). So, if we started sending money directly to the artists (assuming even that is possible... how do you find the addresses for every artist?), we would be circumventing the label and denying them access to their funds. Remember the artist receives a loan against future royalties and won't see a penny from the label until that loan is paid back.

      My advice to bands, for what it is worth: either find a smallish label and convince them to sign you, or utilize a service like CDBaby or The Orchard. You will find it much easier to sell your product that way.

      By the way, we *do*, on occassion, sign one-off bands/artists. We prefer not to due to the overhead, but if an act is truly special we will.

  39. Re: Not funny. Insightful. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Actually, all Super Bowl halftime acts go pre-recorded, not just Shania Twain. Most artists agree with the network that the potential for error and embarassment is too great when you're performing for literally a BILLION people.

    Sub-trivia: Want to guess the one exception to this rule? U2. When they performed a couple of years ago, they threatened to walk if they couldn't do it live on the spot. Pretty cool, if you ask me.

  40. Steampunk Doom? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Hail Doom MCMXVIII!

    Ever wonder what a Doom prequel set in A.D. 1918 would be like?

  41. A lousy dime. by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 1
    The article states:

    In addition, the NARIP-supplied "iTunes Artist-Producer Royalty Calculation" sheet was fascinating because it answers the question all artists on iTunes keep asking: "How much of a 99-cent download do I get to keep?" While indie artists do better, for major label artists, Apple collects 34 cents, the label keeps 55 cents, and the artist gets a dime.

    Ah yes, a dime. Some things never change.

    And this shows exactly why Apple isn't a friend to the musician. IF they were , they would allow artists to deal directly with iTunes as a distribution system. Instead, Apple, like all the other corporate thieving bastards, require artists to go through intermediaries, all who take a massive cut of the money.

    There are umbrella orgs, such as CDBABY, but WHO in their right minds wants to be part of an organisation called CDBABY? There are a few others, but still, They Take All Their Cut. Leeches - the lot of 'em. They must be SMASHED. After all, it wasn't that long ago that for one to hear music, you had to get off your fat ass and learn to play an instrument. This recorded music thing is an historic anomaly. It will go away. Some day.

    RS

    Kiew da wabbit!

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    1. Re:A lousy dime. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect that the biggest reason Apple doesn't allow artists to deal directly with them is that that would more or less make them a record company, and definitly in breach of the agreement between them and Apple Corp. Music (You know, the record company that Beatles own?)

    2. Re:A lousy dime. by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      Artists could (and do) create their own labels, often on which they're the only ones signed. It's probably more because Apple doesn't want to deal with collecting music from a zillion labels and sending checks to them.

    3. Re:A lousy dime. by pknoll · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Yes, they all take their cut. Because printing, advertisement, research, distribution, promotion, transportation, development, bandwidth, storage, administration, and a million other things along the way (depending on whether you're Apple or MCA or a record store or a truck driver) all cost money.

      I know musicians who are in the self-publishing space. They don't have labels, or promoters, or any of that stuff, and they're not on iTunes. So, not only are their choices for distribution more limited, but what they get in exchange for doing all of this themselves is a whole lot less free time, in which to write/play/record. They may make a bit more on each CD they sell--and it's not a LOT more, since none of the things they have to do are any more free than they are for the labels--but it costs them time to do it, and they have to run their own business besides.

      It's unfortunate that music is so popular that it requires an industry to feed it, and it's doubly unfortunate that the cost breakdown pays back based on the actual percentage expense of doing your part, rather than the effort, and triply so that that is abused by the labels, and I do hope the internet is going to change that, and soon. I think iTunes is one step along that road toward transforming the music business, but it won't happen overnight.

  42. Does Electronic Arse make a music game? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Now, this case is sort of an exception, because all of the lyrics to the songs have to be in Simlish. Pretty hard to find a market for that outside the franchise.

    Or with one of the music game companies. Players of Konami's Dance Dance Revolution series, for instance, frankly don't give a flying if they can't understand a song's lyrics. They just want a beat so they can step on arrows. Does EA make music games?

  43. Re:share croppers (or maybe indentured servants) by bitingduck · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sharecroppers is a pretty good term, but indentured servant almost applies, since many artists end up owing the label money, with their work tied up legally so they can't rerecord it, and sometimes contracts they can't escape from. Most artists don't earn jack from the record label (even fairly big and well known artists). If something gets a lot of airplay (or clubplay, or anything that BMI/ASCAP collect money for), they may get some money from publishing, but even that's iffy for a lot of artists who have a small but steady following. For every Madonna or Britney Spears, the labels have screwed a thousand smaller artists who don't suck, but aren't consistent with the business model of "small range of product, huge distribution".

    The reason you're seeing "name" acts like They Might Be Giants (and one of my favorites, http://www.neubauten.org) going it alone is that they weren't making any money being on a record label anyway, and they can find a way to do better by dealing with distribution on their own over the web (or combination web and snailmail). A lot of these bands never had terribly good support from their label anyway, and got to be known through word of mouth/college radio/touring. Over the next few years we can probably expect to see some bands make it big without being on a major. Then they just have to deal with Clear Channel's attempts to control major venues...

    (only partially off topic: I know a computer wargame company that also has done extremely well by self publishing after having bad experiences with the big publishers, and then subsequently acting as a very developer friendly boutique publisher for similar games. http://www.battlefront.com)

    Here's the obligatory link to Steve Albini's "Problem with Music" article: http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
    and another to a long (~hour) video clip of him giving a talk and answering questions (http://www.mtsu.edu/~nadam/downloads/Stevealbiniw eb.html). The issue of independent bands and filesharing comes up, and most people he knows don't have much problem with filesharing- they're not getting paid by their distributors anyway.

  44. Courtney Love on the Topic, Seriously folks by loid_void · · Score: 1

    Hey, I got the "share cropper" ID from a rant of Courney Love's from way back; June 14, 2000. I believe it was originally in Slate, and despite her predicaments at the present moment, the speech is quite eloquent and worth the read for anybody who wants a perspective on this from the bad old "Napster Days."

    --
    Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
    1. Re:Courtney Love on the Topic, Seriously folks by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      That's really good-I don't think I'd seen it before. I mostly agree, except:
      - I suspect that fans will spend more money, not less, when there's more (readily available) variety in the music market and the bands are getting paid more directly. The current major labels, however, will make a lot less money.

      - She will only need radio and physical media distribution for a few more years. The net can be like a radio with an infinite number of stations, and CD's will be much less common artifacts that are more commonly sold at concerts than at stores. Lots of artists do this, including Einstuerzende Neubauten. They sold numbered copies of the show at the show, with a little picture on the front that the band and crew had taken that morning in front of the venue.

      - CD stores will probably disappear, or change very drastically so that they don't really carry large CD stock. Maybe things like T-shirts and merchandise. I think those already exist, and often are called head shops...Mall owners will love it.

      Does anybody remember who it was who peed on her record company exec's desk after the label screwed her? I can't figure out the right keywords to google it.

    2. Re:Courtney Love on the Topic, Seriously folks by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      Found it! Inger Lorre, from the Nymphs

      http://www.worldwildtribe.com/ingerlorre/index.s ht ml

  45. Seriously folks by loid_void · · Score: 1
    Yup, also

    sleazegrinder

    paragraph 6

    --
    Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
  46. "No one eats there anymore; it's too crowded." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One prediction: "Britney Spears is over."

    Yeah, righhht. That reminds me of : "No one eats there anymore; it's too crowded."

    The FACT is that Britney whole life has been: 1: Ask people who invest money, "What sells?" 2: Provide THAT for her cut 3. Go back to step 1.

    That, my friends, is a winning formula. She's over when she wants to be over and not before.

  47. 55.4 + 34.3 + 10.3 = 100.0 % by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For (I-tunes) major label artists, Apple collects 34 cents, the label keeps 55 cents, and the artist gets a dime.

    Pay the artists a penny a song per disk to provide the top 10,000 songs on every hard disk that's at least 200 gigs in size. I already have over half that and I've paid the artists zero cents per song.
    (The label got zip and Apple got nada, and that's the way it oughta be, but I feel for the artists.)

  48. ARTISTS CUT THE FAT (RIAA) OFF by spyware+scams_suck · · Score: 1
    What is royally fucked is the fact that artists could command much higher percentages if the music industry wasn't dominated by a cartel

    And the labels took a big chunk of any money customers paid for a record.

    It was a deal with the devil.

    The major record labels were just a bank to finance the artists' distribution & marketing, a specialized bank for artists and musicians but just a bank nonetheless. The artists might as well go to a Credit Union--they've got much lower rates I hear. hehehehe No, better yet, let's view the NEWER business models.

    I'm just going to name 2 ways artists are making money now which I listened to on npr.org this week. Now, you don't need these companies to do biz as an artist or "independent creater", but just look at the way the business model CAN BE now without the RIAA.

    Artistshare

    Maria Schneider, a well-known and highly regarded jazz arranger/band leader now uses artistShare which uses the power & money of the artist's fans and she now makes a little money compared with losing money the past 3 years without her fans' help.

    With artistshare, you can buy into various "plans" and get otherwise unavailable CDs, unreleased clips, Schneider's own annotations. At the very top are "Gold Participants" who, for $1,000, get their names listed on her next CD as an underwriter.

    Bitpass

    Fans make micropayments for specific songs. A comics artist was sick of giving his works away and not receiving any sort of compensation. With bitpass, his fans come back for more while making micropayments and both sides are happy.

    --
    * weedshare.com 50% to artists, webjay.org iuma.com CDBaby.com Epitonic.com ampcast.com
  49. Margins and Pay have been too high anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Who says a rock star is entitiled to make millions of dollars?

    The reality is that there are plenty of very talented (arguably even more talented) musicians in the world who don't have label contracts who would do the same job for $150k. The fact that a select few musicians make over 10 times this amount is due to the fact that record companies could afford (and thus controlled) the manufacturing and distribution process. The record companies have been very sucessful at dictating what the public consumes for the past 40 years. This is what has created wealth. A small percentage of this wealth was shared with the artists, but the reality is that artists played a very small and easily replacable part in the wealth creation. I'm not saying that this is right, its just the business reality. Since most of the time a label "creates" the artist through marketing and promotion, "superstar" artists for the most part have been overpaid.

    These days, manufactoring and distribution are now cheap enough for the individual to afford. Marketing and promotion are the only real barriers to entry, but these are already collapsing as well. The value of wealth creation is now swinging back to the artists. But there will be less wealth to create.


    Once the RIAA is dead, surviving / new labels will make less money, but be much more effiecent.


    On average, artists will make less money, but more of them will be able to make a living at it. Consumers will have greater choice in a much more competitive and fair environment.

  50. 10 year Overnight Sucess by not_hylas(+) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Most of you all have seen the cartoon of a tree swing made by committee. (?)

    http://www.businessballs.com/treeswing.htm

    It reminds me of the record business.

    Seriously, some of the talent scouts really CAN tell what's really good just by listening (some got the job from their uncle/auntie).
    That's where the trouble starts, no one can make a decision-much less a decent pitch without invoking the gods of pop for comparison.
    The reason no one is buying is because they're picking stinkers.

    Example:
    Bonnie Raitt's Nick of Time.

    http://www.bonnieraitt.com/disc_nick_of_time.php

    Took marketing totally by surprise!, she was deemed "washed up".
    Surprise!

    The listening public had NO trouble picking this little gem out and making it gold (what? double platinum).

    Another artist they don't push:

    http://www.universalrecords.com/quicktime/ediebr ic kell/

    Brilliant stuff (for the genre).

    If the recording companies were smart they let us pick the hits.
    You know, a Fresh Artist, New release download area (with marketing pushing the site heavily).
    Many Ears make for a NO Brainer(TM)

    My favorite example:

    http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/corinnemusic

    These artists are hiding in plain site.

    The record companies (why yes, I DO know of what I speak) need to fire some people a get with the program.

    --
    ~hylas
  51. Wasted 5 minutes of my life reading this by serutan · · Score: 1

    Did Timothy actually read the article before greenlighting this?

    post: interesting (perhaps hopeful) business predictions about Britney Spears' career.

    article: Britney Spears as a pop artist is over.

    That's interesting? That's even a prediction?

    This article is a mixture of record company jargon -- "step deals... EA will clear 60 masters... buyout basis..." -- and outright bullshit -- "There is new music coming, real diversity of music, and it will be a rebirth of the record industry."

    What a waste of space and time.

  52. CDBaby by arothmanmusic · · Score: 1

    Despite the silly name, CDBaby rocks balls. I've ordered a number of amazing indie discs from them (The Big Creak's "Just Left Town" comes to mind) and they've always been inexpensive, friendly, and rediculously fast. I mean like ordered on Monday and the disc arrived on Tuesday type stuff. They're a model for all other music distributors.