Kryptonite U-Lock Security Flaw

hmmm by crtfdgk · 2004-09-18 15:00 · Score: 5, Funny

sure this site will be /.ed soon....

--

$> man woman
$> Segmentation fault (core dumped)

Dupe of a comment... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-18 15:00 · Score: 3, Informative

Sound familiar?

people suck. by mstich · 2004-09-18 15:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

Too bad we couldn't just live in a society where we wouldn't have to worry about theft! :(

Re:people suck. by SagSaw · 2004-09-18 15:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

Too bad we couldn't just live in a society where we wouldn't have to worry about theft!

I fear that as long as there are things not everybody has (money/power/fame/etc.), some portion of the population will turn to illegal, immoral, or socially unacceptable means to achieve their goals. Unless we really want to live in a society where equality is enforced and nobody is allowed to have anymore than anyone else, the presence of thieves and other criminals is something we will always need to deal with.

--
Come test your mettle in the world of Alter Aeon!
Re:people suck. by Groo+Wanderer · 2004-09-18 15:28 · Score: 3, Insightful

You mean like.... umm.... Nope, can't think of an example on this planet. You have one?

-Charlie
Re:people suck. by clifyt · 2004-09-18 15:43 · Score: 5, Insightful

" Unless we really want to live in a society where equality is enforced and nobody is allowed to have anymore than anyone else, the presence of thieves and other criminals is something we will always need to deal with."

I doubt it. There will always be a percentage of the population that is not happy with having the status quo. For instance, the crack dealers down the street from me have sent their friends to try to break into my house -- I know the one guy the police have caught is someone I'd seen hanging out in their den.

Sadly, they have better shit than I do. They think since I'm white and a home owner I'm fair target. One of the kids that lives there asked me to help him with his computer because someone told him I was good with these things (I generally don't tell folks what I do in this neighborhood) and it was a better laptop than I had for work -- and this is a 12 year old boy. Not his dads laptop, *HIS*.

Seems there was some sort of bios lock on the machine that was enacted after not signing it in after so many sessions (I'm not up with all the CompuTrace kinda shit that my work is always telling us we need to have on our machines).

So, no matter how much one person has in comparison to those around him, it will never be enough for some people. Its good to think that some magic hippy star trek future would eliminate hunger and greed, and as this kind of future will never happen, it doesn't really harm anyone to believe in this -- at least until you start an economical ideology based around this and then start realizing that the common laborer doesn't need the same equipment that a research scientist does and you start to pass out equipment based on need, and you realize you have just created an unequal society once again and need to set up a draconian society to ensure everyone is equally unhappy in one way or another.

Thieves are thieves and there will always be someone that wants something for nothing and wants to have more than those around him...
Re:people suck. by ThatsNotFunny · 2004-09-18 15:53 · Score: 5, Funny

I would agree, but since I'm typing this on my stolen copy of Windows. I'd better not.

--
"Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine No Posessions?'" -- Elvis Costello
Re:people suck. by Bull999999 · 2004-09-18 15:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

Even if we did, the RIAA or some similar organization would find a way to define whatever we did as theft...

As Homer once said, it's funny because it's true.

--
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Re:people suck. by alcmena · 2004-09-18 16:07 · Score: 4, Funny

When I lived on OSU campus, I had someone try to steal my bike. The odd thing is that the bike was over 14 years old, had the brakes hanging off of the handle bars, and was missing the chain for the wheels. Still, someone went through the effort of cutting my bike lock to take it. I found the bike about 20 feet away from where I locked it, probably where the person first noticed it had no chain to ride away with.
Re:people suck. by clifyt · 2004-09-18 16:57 · Score: 3, Informative

No, I'm suggesting it was stolen.

I'm suggesting that this guy had stolen far more than others, and he still wasn't satisfied with the fact the had more shit than most people and still didn't know how to deal with it.

I could have easily unscrewed the case, pulled the bios battery or hit the reset jumpers and looked up the default supervisor password through google. I can't prove it was stolen, its most likely it is, but then again, one can't go around calling the police simply because you think something is stolen.

Trolling? No. Why does every stupid motherfucker on Slashdot claim trolling just because they can't understand what the poster is saying. Its called fucking English. Thats what this forum is written in. Learn it.

Now that too was not a troll. I put it in there so that you can understand the difference between a flame and a troll. Generally used by the same individuals, but in this case it is posted by a separate group.
Re:people suck. by aidbo · 2004-09-18 17:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

Not being happy with your situation is what drives a capitalist society. Thievery is just a side effect of this.

--
REMEMBER! I was drunk when I posted this...
Re:people suck. by Free_Meson · 2004-09-18 17:16 · Score: 3, Interesting

There's actually been a lot of work done studying the replacement rate for criminals. In areas like this (petty theft of unsecure items on the street) or drug dealing, a criminal who is arrested is often replaced on the street by another criminal before he's fingerprinted... You can't stop crime by locking up criminals because many crimes are created by some combination of poverty, opportunity, and moral flexibility. In the case of drug dealers (the class of criminal for whom this is most true), there's not even the moral flexibility requirement. (It's plainly not immoral to sell drugs -- merely illegal.)
Re:people suck. by grainofsand · 2004-09-18 17:26 · Score: 3, Interesting

Not true. In my eight years here in China / Taiwan, I have never found an unlcoked bike (regardless the bike's age or condition).

Almost every domestically made bike comes with a fixed wheel lock operated by a key.

The first and only bike I bought in China was from a market in Beijing specialising in stolen bikes. I had it for about a week until it was stolen.

In every city and large town there are bike park lots staffed with security staff who take your 10 cents and guard over the bikes.

--
A dream is good. A plan is better.
Re:people suck. by sqrt(2) · 2004-09-18 17:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

That's like saying that you can eradicate cancer by killing all people with cancer.

It would work for a few years, until the trailer parks, and slums started churning out yet another generation of criminals.

--
If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
Re:people suck. by Hobbex · 2004-09-18 17:37 · Score: 3, Informative

Yes, up here in Scandinavia all we do is where clogs and dance in circle, and nobody ever takes anything. Why the hell does bullshit like this even get moderated up?

If you leave a bicycle unlocked in Sweden, it will get stolen. If you don't believe me, I suggest you come here and try.

For the record: the number of bicycle thefts per 100 people in America in the year 2000: 2.7. In Sweden: 9.4.
Re:people suck. by djtripp · 2004-09-18 17:41 · Score: 2, Funny

Is it wiggidy-whack?

--
"This is you left and that's your left. This is your right and that's your right. You're gonna die!
Re:people suck. by andersa · 2004-09-18 17:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

I can't prove it was stolen, its most likely it is, but then again, one can't go around calling the police simply because you think something is stolen.

Why the hell not?

If it was your own laptop that was stolen and someone else found it, would you want them to call the police? You know if nobody ever helped out the police, society would go down the tube pretty quickly. The police need these tips to do their work. This info gets thrown into the mix with all kinds of other pieces, like a jigsaw. Your tip could be the final crucial bit of evidence that was needed to crack a wider case.

It's your damn duty to call the cops, when you see something like this.
Re:people suck. by clifyt · 2004-09-18 17:59 · Score: 4, Insightful

The kids have done nothing wrong. The sins of the father do not equate to the sins of the son.

Neighborhood kids come over to my place and hang out -- outside, never inside near my shit. I keep it clean and they have a nice front yard they can play in. And I bribe them with a coke or a dollar to clean up the neighborhood. A few weekends ago, I was mowing the lawn, and we ended up mowing 6 yards and they picked up all the trash from the streets and for this, I was out a case of coke and $20. This was about 6 or 7 kids from a few families.

Maybe if the kids learn to take care of shit and work for stuff, they will not live the same life their father does. Half the kids around here are on welfare and I hope I'm helping them see how it is to do something for a living...
Re:people suck. by MedHead · 2004-09-18 18:13 · Score: 3, Insightful

So that makes it okay? Not trying to be a troll... it just seems that many users here bring up the "copyright isn't theft" argument, and it appears very often that it is in defense of copyright infringement, rather than just a clarification.
Re:people suck. by swiftstream · 2004-09-18 19:02 · Score: 2, Interesting

Not really. As someone who lives in Sweden and commutes on the train into Stockholm to school every day, I often see bikes left near the train station unlocked.

Of course, that may just be my neighborhood...

--
Be a PATRIOT--because the only thing we have to fear is the lack thereof.
Re:people suck. by sxpert · 2004-09-18 20:01 · Score: 2, Funny

guess that's because most north americans don't ride bikes, but cars...
Re:people suck. by spacecowboy420 · 2004-09-18 20:07 · Score: 5, Insightful

That's bullshit. When I was a juvenile, I would do some stupid shit just because it was illegal - just to challenge fate. Do you think vandals, not those that spray paint their names or make a pretty pictures, but those that break shit - do it for fame, fortune or otherwise? What do serial arsonists gain? Nothing. Just the satisfaction of decadence - it is easier to destroy than to create.

--
ymmv
Re:people suck. by farble1670 · 2004-09-18 20:25 · Score: 2, Insightful

For the record: the number of bicycle thefts per 100 people in America in the year 2000: 2.7. In Sweden: 9.4.

you should be quoting per 100 people THAT OWN BICYCLES. is that what you meant? if not, your stats are misleading (at best).
Re:people suck. by blake182 · 2004-09-18 20:25 · Score: 4, Funny

For the record: the number of bicycle thefts per 100 people in America in the year 2000: 2.7. In Sweden: 9.4.

Number of bicycles per 100 people in America in the year 2000: 4. In Sweeden: 90.

The point is that I imagine that the number of bikes per hundred in other countries is probably a lot higher than in the US. The relevant thing here would probably be the number of bikes stolen as a percentage of total bikes.

Man up and get yourself a goddam SUV! Only a damn clog-wearing fairy would ride a bike anyway! And how do you ride a bike with clogs on, anyway?!?
Re:people suck. by Hobbex · 2004-09-18 20:44 · Score: 2, Informative

It is funny how like ten people replied like this, but nobody bothered to look up that stat. It was hard with google: there are 100 bicycles bicycles in the USA, and 6 million in Sweden.

So the number of thefts in the USA is approx 300,000,000 * 0.027 = 8,100,000 per year.

The number of thefts in Sweden is approx 9,000,000 * 0.094 = 846,000.

Thefts / bicycle and year:

USA = 0.081
Sweden = 0.141

So clearly, Swedish bicycle owners have absolutely no need to worry about theft!

Jesus, I am so sick of the patronizing American mythology that crime is something only you have and that Europe is some lala land where everybody is nice to one another. In fact, crime rates are higher in most of Europe than in the US, and yes, that include the mythical land of Sweden.
Re:people suck. by mgv · 2004-09-18 20:55 · Score: 4, Insightful

Crime for crime's sake? Any psychologist will tell you there is no such thing. After all, crime is risky. Why make a risk if there is no gain? There is always some reason, even if it's small or obscure.

That assumes that the person has a reason. Or has reason. 1% of the world's population gets mania, a similar percentage schizophrenia, 20% get depressed, and there are other conditions which aren't well defined yet in terms of population incidence or effect (eg post traumatic stress disorder).

Yet in some studies, 50% of prison populations have major psychiatric disorders. You could say that these were crimes committed in sane periods (certainly, the judges did say that), but you cant get around the number of "criminals" that have a history of major psychiatric disorders.

Then there is the "sociopathic" personality, which can be born that way or become that way with certain brain injuries. People who just can't feel or see things from another person's perspective. Humans do this alot as a survival tactic - how else do you drive a tank around Iraq and shoot at people and not want to suicide? You do it for the greater good, or whatever, maybe. But you still sit in relative safety and point weapons of minor distruction (like your cannon) at real people who will feel pain or die. Its a trait most of us have, and it has survival value.

But some people just are like this all the time. So they are good on the battle field, and never get stress disorders from hurting others.

Doesn't mean that they are all homicidal maniac's - in fact many of them are just nasty people, and we have all met a few of them. Self centred. Whatever. You see actors play that role on most soapies - the office bitch type of role - and its based on real life personalities who aren't that uncommon. We have all met them.

Some people don't percieve risk the same way you do, either. Some people have to jump out of airplanes with parachutes just to feel alive.

And some people don't know that they are commiting a crime - Taping your TV show's to watch later is a crime in some countries (like Australia).

In essence - its not that simple. There are lots of reasons for crime, lots of motiviations, and lots of times where the person didn't really understand the risk/reward relationship for crime the same way you do.

Michael

--
There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
Re:people suck. by covertbadger · 2004-09-18 22:34 · Score: 2

Yup, and then it's the muggers that get your car rather than the car thieves :-)
Re:people suck. by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · 2004-09-18 23:00 · Score: 2, Interesting

That assumes that the person has a reason. Or has reason. 1% of the world's population gets mania, a similar percentage schizophrenia, 20% get depressed, and there are other conditions which aren't well defined yet in terms of population incidence or effect (eg post traumatic stress disorder).
Don't forget, many mental illnesses are cognitive/learned. This means that the society they grow up in will have some affect on them. Even with disorders that are mainly genetic, some of the traits they have will be cognitive. E.G. Despite the misconception that people with schizophrenia are often dangerous, they are usually not. The ones who are are more likely to have been abused etc. as well.
Then there is the "sociopathic" personality, which can be born that way or become that way with certain brain injuries. People who just can't feel or see things from another person's perspective. Humans do this alot as a survival tactic - how else do you drive a tank around Iraq and shoot at people and not want to suicide? You do it for the greater good, or whatever, maybe. But you still sit in relative safety and point weapons of minor distruction (like your cannon) at real people who will feel pain or die. Its a trait most of us have, and it has survival value.
But people with antisocial personality disorder who do things such as chop up kids have been abused most of the time. Their antisocial tendencies mean that yes, the are more susceptible to do such things, but that is different from doing it.
BTW. the people in Iraq who are driving around killing people went over there believing that it was necessary, and that they were helping people. Even if they killed a baby, they can easily dump this on their "these things happen/it's for the better" defence mechanism.
Some people don't percieve risk the same way you do, either. Some people have to jump out of airplanes with parachutes just to feel alive.
I've addressed this in another reply to my post.
And some people don't know that they are commiting a crime - Taping your TV show's to watch later is a crime in some countries (like Australia).
Heh. Find me one adult that doesn't know that society believes taking a bike from someone is wrong. Were's not talking about software here. After all society says what is right and wrong. Not the government.
In essence - its not that simple. There are lots of reasons for crime, lots of motiviations, and lots of times where the person didn't really understand the risk/reward relationship for crime the same way you do.
Never said it was simple. It isn't. I agree. But saying that people steal for the hell of it certainly is simplistic thinking.
Re:people suck. by Mudcathi · 2004-09-18 23:17 · Score: 3, Funny

Some people have to jump out of airplanes with parachutes just to feel alive.
As opposed to some people to have to jump out of airplanes without parachutes, just to feel dead?

--
"He who throws mud, loses ground." - proverb
Re:people suck. by crazy_monkey · 2004-09-18 23:21 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yet in some studies, 50% of prison populations have major psychiatric disorders. You could say that these were crimes committed in sane periods (certainly, the judges did say that), but you cant get around the number of "criminals" that have a history of major psychiatric disorders

I'll bet some studies didn't take into account that people with psychiatric disorders probably do stuff that gets them more jail time, and probably didn't look too remorseful at trial, either.
Re:people suck. by clifyt · 2004-09-19 01:20 · Score: 5, Insightful

I don't know why anyone rated your post as flamebait, just another reason the realize the fuckwads on Slashdot don't fucking know shit. Hell, most of my posts are far more flamebait that yours.

But you are right. Most likely they won't amount to anything, but thats not my problem. I will do whats right while they are around me and hope that something wears off.

By day, I work for an educational facility...I generally hire folks in the tech world that have no knowledge of the area -- but want the jobs much more than the ones that do know the area and interview with me -- these guys sound bored and one actually threatened me that if I didn't hire him it would only be because I thought he would take my job. Please -- no one gets fired or promoted in academia no matter how good or bad you are.

Kids that were probably looking at getting out with a mid $20k job are finding out that working for me after 3 years, they were getting jobs worth almost double that. I've got one employer that calls me all the time because he's never been dissatisfied with one of my students. Interestingly, most of the kids weren't even pursuing tech degrees but wanted my jobs because I paid the highest for student work on campus -- which is actually how I got my first job in the tech field -- I went for the highest paying one which happened to be a geek position.

So I have made a change in some folks lives. If people are exposed to situations like this where they are given a chance to be around positive situations, they will change somewhat. It might mean hesitating before pulling the trigger one night and deciding not to kill someone and walking away after robbing him. One of the kids in the neighborhood has violent tendencies where he picks up rocks or sticks and attacks animals. His father has taught him that animals are worthless and one can hurt or kill them without thinking. I've let him play with my animals and he actually seems to like them now. I saw him a few days ago with a leash walking my next door neighbors dog. Its not a big jump from saying that animals are worthless and need to be beat down than saying humans are worthless and need beat down.

Most of the time, I feel just the opposite -- I'd never hurt an animal, but I'd beat the shit out of a person in a heartbeat.

So changes happen. Its not seismic changes, but little ones.

As for the batman costume -- who needs the suit? I was thrown out of my first colleges dorm because I threw a dealer out of a 3rd story window after he kicked in the wrong (slightly open) door with a gun pointed. I beat the shit out of some homophobic racists that were slipping notes under black folks doors as well as the little gay kid that lived across the hall. I caught them laughing about it on the other side, and after seeing the kid come to my room every other night crying and asking why folks hated him, I took action. They never proved that I was the one that threw the guy out the window (or my buddy Mike or our friend that was in the room that was a state police officer there to play Doom I) -- he never pressed charges. They did note that I single handedly beat the shit out of 3 guys and kicked on in the nuts so hard he lost a testicle. Never mind that one of them threw the first punch after I said I was calling to police, never mind that the noted had been saved and the fingerprints matched theirs, nevermind the ringleader was ordered to stay away from several women in the dorm because he was accused of stalking them, but they said I was overly violent because there was no way that anyone could have beaten the shit out of 3 guys and left them in the condition I did if I wasn't slightly nuts -- I ended up going to jail that night, not them. We all got kicked out of the dorm, but I was the one that was almost kicked out of the university (actually I was for a while...a judge reinstated me and reprimanded the officials involved).

What did I learn from all of this? Sometimes you do need to crack heads. but more importantl
Re:people suck. by clifyt · 2004-09-19 01:41 · Score: 2, Insightful

As one of the ACs mentioned, hiding isn't a way to go about things. As the other mentioned, drugs and crime aren't just a big city problem -- I live in the midwest. Yeah, a bigger city, but no where near Chicago, LA or NYC.

I live close to town -- I can bike to where I need to. I don't have to worry about snow in the winter keeping me in. I always have something within 3 miles to do thats entertaining.

That and this was the biggest house I could afford for university wages -- I had to look within to get it. in the suburbs, I couldn't have found a structurally sound historic home with hand carved wood and detailed inlaid floors for anywhere near the money I put into this.

Since I've been calling the police more often, the other neighbors have too. In the 7 months I've been here, we successfully had a section 8 house closed and another double that was slated to be section 8 denied by the city. Section 8 housing are those that are reserved for the poor and most of the rent is paid for by the state...I don't mind poor, I mind the criminal elements they bring with them. Quite a few poor folk that are good friends here. And I'm not sure why they are considered 'poor' because they have more shit than I do. Probably poor because they spend like a fiend and let credit cards catch up with them where I'm just content to have a home of my own.

So, instead of removing myself, I'm trying to change it. Trying to encourage more families to move in. Trying to encourage folks to buy as opposed to renting. Once folks have ownership, they start to have pride and want to be out of bad situations. When its someone elses problem, you can fuck things up and move on to the next place...owning doesn't allow you to do this.

So, all in all I'm happy. There are no perfect situations. I'm hoping that it will get better and I'm sure it will. I've lived in neighborhoods almost as bad as this one only to see run down homes go for a quarter million with another half put into them. My last neighborhood had my current governor living there (well back when he was Lt. Gov) as they had cleaned it up and turned some of the shitty tenements into high class condos. All over the course of 10 years I'd lived there. Right now, my home is an investment...its the only form of investment I can make with my current income level (trying to keep my side business afloat these days...argh!). The houses in my old neighborhood went through a 100% increase in pricing in 10 years. And now city expansion is pushing directly towards my path with the yuppies that couldn't get into my old neighborhood in time (I knew I should have bought when my landlord offered it to be 5 years ago), this area is slated for urban renewal as well. I am just east of where they tore down Indianapolis's Market Square Arena and in its stead are going to be luxury condos -- most going for a half mill. Folks in my situation that want to be near that action but couldn't come near to paying for those prices will be looking at the area that is up and coming and they will be moving in next to me in the next few years.

So, I'm happy -- just not happy with ALL the elements. Hell, once this all happens, I'm going to be screaming about the property tax increases -- so it never changes...always pissed off about something...
Re:people suck. by CaptainZapp · 2004-09-19 03:15 · Score: 2, Insightful

[...]some portion of the population will turn to illegal, immoral, or socially unacceptable means to achieve their goals.[...]
Man, you're description sure reminds me of the current lot in the white house.

--
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
Re:people suck. by scottking · 2004-09-19 04:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

man, thanks, i didn't think it was flamebait either.

i used to work at the local technical institute, so i feel ya on the no one gets fired or promoted thing. there was a room their with nothing but receptionists. they didn't necessarily receive anything, they were just there, in case customer service or a dept head needed one.

most likely they were there just to make sure there was money in the budget for next year.

i think a lot of slashdotters scan posts, and at a glance, mine looked like flamebait. whatever, it's just slashdot. the whole reason i come here is to see flamebait, and a lot of times the comments are so shortsighted that it all looks like flamebait to me anyway.

--
scott king
Re:people suck. by MyHair · 2004-09-19 05:08 · Score: 3, Funny

What do serial arsonists gain?

A secure job at the fire department.
Re:people suck. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-19 06:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

"Do you think vandals, not those that spray paint their names or make a pretty pictures, but those that break shit - do it for fame, fortune or otherwise? What do serial arsonists gain? Nothing."

I'm not sure if I'd lump vandals and arsonists into the same motivational pile that quickly. I've spent some time trying to understand what the payoff for certain abberant behaviors is, and I've got a theory that some of them may be doing it for one of the most powerful motivational reasons that can exist for a human being.

Most people are aware of a highly pleasurable feeling that comes at the moment before orgasm, and most can come up with other situations where they felt something very vaguely like it, such as a pleasurable tickling of the brain when listening to a certain passages of music.

Now, what if individuals are all hooked up slightly differently with regards to what they find pleasurable? Do you think some might feel pleasure when looking into a window and seeing someone who is attractive who is unaware of being observed? How about when poking a finger into a loaf of bread in a grocery store and leaving it on the shelf? Shoplifting? Sniffing bicycle seats? Setting a fire?

Consider that some people may be wired up so that they get that little tickle under some bizarre or destructive circumstances that make little sense to you or I. Some people appear to be wired up to feel strong pleasurable responses under some rather undesirable circumstances. For them, it's a curse.

The mechanism of how pleasurable endorphine feedback response works, what triggers it, and why some people appear to have wound up with different triggers and suppression mechanisms than others is not well understood, but anyone who ignores it when trying to figure out what motivates some people to do strange, deviant, antisocial, or destructive things may be missing an important piece of the puzzle.

They are offering a replacement by lecithin · 2004-09-18 15:01 · Score: 4, Informative

From their home page:

"Canton, MA September 17, 2004 - Kryptonite today announced it will provide free product upgrades for certain locks purchased since September 2002, in response to consumer concerns about tubular cylinder lock technology. Consumers can visit the company's Website (www.kryptonitelock.com) on Wednesday afternoon, September 22, 2004, to learn how they can participate in the security upgrade program."

--
It could be worse, it could be Monday.

Re:They are offering a replacement by mm0mm · 2004-09-18 15:16 · Score: 4, Funny

"Replacement"?
Wow, that sounds great. I was expecting to see a free Service Patch on their website to fix the security flaws. As far as I know that's how businesses take care of flawed products nowadays.
Re:They are offering a replacement by clambake · 2004-09-18 22:23 · Score: 5, Funny

I was expecting to see a free Service Patch on their website to fix the security flaws. As far as I know that's how businesses take care of flawed products nowadays.

That's SO pre-DMCA. The way companies deal with it *nowadays* is attempt to sue the pen manufaturers.

Hmmm... by TWX · 2004-09-18 15:02 · Score: 3, Interesting

Those environmentalists in Neal Stephenson's Zodiac won't be very happy to learn this...

--
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.

They probably by cpt_rhetoric · 2004-09-18 15:02 · Score: 5, Funny

They probably figured that would be theives wouldn't know how to write anyway. I'm sure it was found ver secure against a crayon.

Proprietary locks! by john_sheu · 2004-09-18 15:03 · Score: 2, Funny

Now if they'd only open-source these locks...

Hasn't this been posted before, like 2 months ago? by lanebob · 2004-09-18 15:03 · Score: 2, Informative

I do know for sure that this info has been out for at least two months, if not more.

Read slashdot. by dtfinch · 2004-09-18 15:04 · Score: 5, Funny

Buy a pen.
Win a free bike.

Re:Read slashdot. by Spyro+VII · 2004-09-18 15:23 · Score: 2, Insightful

Profit!!!! ??? Go To Jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 dollars.
Re:Read slashdot. by FiloEleven · 2004-09-18 16:25 · Score: 3, Interesting

Not actually true. There's a lot of discussion on some bike forum (linked from the Slashdot article on lockpicking, which I suspect the submitter ganked this story from) and in the midst of pissing and moaning (and rightfully so) it's pointed out that the pins on the Kryptonite locks have a much smaller length span than in most locks. Also, it only takes a quarter turn of the Kryptonite lock to unlock it, whereas more secure tubular locks must be turned farther. (posting from memory, so adequately, but not completely accurate)

--
Your brain is not a computer.

What about other cylindrical locks? by i_want_you_to_throw_ · 2004-09-18 15:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

Like Coke machines? Same vulnerability? Of course your pen barrel would need to be MUCH bigger

Previous Discussion by sahrss · 2004-09-18 15:07 · Score: 4, Informative

First I thought this story was a dupe, then I realized I was just remembering videos and comments from a previous discussion in the "Steel Bolt Hacking" story.

Re:Previous Discussion by Meowing · 2004-09-18 16:10 · Score: 2, Informative

Yeah, it is kind of a dup. This is pretty much the same technique covered in the recent story on Kensington locks.

The videos look strange by iammaxus · 2004-09-18 15:09 · Score: 3, Funny

Does anyone else get the feeling that they are watching porn when they watch those videos with the guy wriggling the pen in the keyhole and then trying to pull the lock open? There is something inherently dirty in that...

video of by crazybelgium · 2004-09-18 15:10 · Score: 2, Informative

Here is a video made by the gentleman who did it.
* http://thirdrate.com/misc/krypto.mov
Another movie, different lock.
* http://biginjapan.com/extranet/assets/ben/krypto_e v_disc_web.mov

Enjoy.

--
There is no patch for human stupidity.

The videos by BReflection · 2004-09-18 15:10 · Score: 5, Informative

--
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"

Re:The videos by yroJJory · 2004-09-18 15:33 · Score: 2, Informative

4.wmv
5.mpg

--
Jory

It's twue! It's twue! by Walter+Wart · 2004-09-18 15:10 · Score: 5, Informative

I tried it out with my own lock. 30 seconds and it was open. I called the Kryptonite company. At the time they were aware of the problem and are rushing their next generation of cylinders into production.

Interestingly enough, the problem was first reported in Britain in 1992. But it didn't go anywhere. Hurray for the age of fast information dissemination. And fast technology transfer to the bad guys.

--
The man who never alters his opinion is like the stagnant water and breeds Reptiles of the Mind -- William Blake

Having equiped my bike... by rusty0101 · 2004-09-18 15:12 · Score: 4, Funny

... with a Garmin GPS receiver, and a Cell phone, I am looking for a bit of hardware to interconnect them so that if the bike takes off it will call me and I can report it's tracks to the local constabulatory.

Of course with my luck the thief will think the cell phone and GPS are a more attractive theft item than the Bke...

-Rusty

--
You never know...

Well... by zhiwenchong · 2004-09-18 15:12 · Score: 4, Funny

at least one person won't be able to open this lock: Superman.

Re:Well... by Kristoffer+Lunden · 2004-09-18 15:20 · Score: 5, Funny

But I bet Bicycle Repair Man could fix it!

--
Spine World
Re:Well... by Dirtside · 2004-09-18 15:57 · Score: 4, Funny

at least one person won't be able to open this lock: Superman.
Ah, yes, his well-known vulnerability to Bic pens. Poor bastard.

--
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
Re:Well... by SlashdotMeNow · 2004-09-18 16:35 · Score: 2, Funny

Well it's not like he'd want to steal a bike now is it?

"Look! Up in the air!"

"It's a bird in a wheelchair!"

"No, it's a plane in a wheelchair!"

"No, it's Superman!"

New York Lock... by SealBeater · 2004-09-18 15:12 · Score: 4, Interesting

I used to be a bike messenger and I would have always told you, use a New York
Lock, which by the way, isn't vunerable to this attack. It's the best lock in
the world, but at $50, only bike messengers seem to care enough/or know enough
to pay the money. Honestly, I can't count the number of times I've seen
expensive 1K and up bikes locked up with a $20 lock. If that.

SealBeater

--
-- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!

Re:New York Lock... by lantius · 2004-09-18 15:20 · Score: 3, Informative

Actually, the standard u-lock portion of the New York Lock is suceptible to this attack. Fortunately alot of messengers ditch that part and instead use normal flat-keyed padlocks.

Regardless, the worst part of this vulnerability is that it apparently even works against a number of the higher end, $80+ Kryptonite u-lock models. So it's just not a matter of cheap locks.

I would never lock up my 1k+ bike anymore; if it is outside my house I am within arms length of it. I even use sturdy locks on my junk-built singlespeeds, after one of them got stolen.
Re:New York Lock... by SealBeater · 2004-09-18 15:46 · Score: 2, Informative

A seat is easily replaced, and I as well as any number of people, can ride a
bike for a long time without having to sit.

SealBeater

--
-- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
Re:New York Lock... by kfg · 2004-09-18 15:52 · Score: 2, Insightful

I even use sturdy locks on my junk-built singlespeeds, after one of them got stolen.

The essential problem for those of us that use the bicycle as our primary means of transportation is just the same as for the afficianados of the automobile, the cost of the bike is somewhat irrelevant. The problem comes when you're 25 miles out and your bike isn't there when you return to it, leaving you stranded.

I always try to lock even my crudiest "rain" bike as securely as is reasonable.

KFG
Re:New York Lock... by SealBeater · 2004-09-18 16:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

Granted, but I don't like it when people try to tell me I am wrong in a public
forum on a subject that I am authoritative on when they don't know what they
are talking about. Being so quick to try to point out a wrong, is a good way
to ensure that you end up wrong yourself.

SealBeater

--
-- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
Re:New York Lock... by kidlinux · 2004-09-18 17:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

HAH! $50?? I paid $160 CDN for my kryptonite lock and chain (the whole thing must weight close to 20lbs) and because I bought it before Sept. 2002 I'm not entitled to a free replacement. I get a "sizeable" discount on purchase of a new product.

Fuck that. What difference does it make if I bought the damned thing a week ago or three years ago? I'm callin 'em on monday and giving them an earful about this.

--
-kidlinux.

Read any other news source. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-18 15:12 · Score: 2, Funny

Buy a pen.
Win a free bike a week earlier than slashdot readers.

This doesn't just affect Kryptonite locks by GuruHal · 2004-09-18 15:13 · Score: 5, Informative

This is a flaw in the barrel style key system. I'm hardly a locksmith, but I've tried this on several of my locks and others just to prove the point, and the majority are not kryptonite locks. All of them have opened without more than 30 seconds of effort.

The sick part is the problem has been well known to manufacturers since 1992, and nothing has been done about it.

--
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" -- Red Green

Re:This doesn't just affect Kryptonite locks by yppiz · 2004-09-18 15:23 · Score: 2, Informative

The Kryptonite locks use the Ace or Ace II barrel, according to the forums I've been following. The former mechanism is somewhat easier to open using the pen exploit than the latter, but there are multiple reports of both types of mechanisms being opened. Same goes for the Kryptonite EV Disc lock.
Further, even Kryptonite's (and other lock companys') New York models have been reported vulnerable to this attack.
For readers who aren't aware, Kryptonite and other companies have special New York models to thwart the mutant underground-dwelling cannibalistic bike thieves common to Manhattan and surrounding boroughs. Kryptonite does not warrantee most of its locks for use in New York.
--Pat / zippy@cs.brandeis.edu
Re:This doesn't just affect Kryptonite locks by Witchblade · 2004-09-18 15:27 · Score: 5, Informative

At my freshman orientation at Ohio State in 1993 we we told about this on the first day by the RAs. I'm really surprised at seeing the cycling community react with total shock to this. I also can't believe the manufacturers weren't aware of the problem a decade ago, since it seemed to be pretty well known then.
Re:This doesn't just affect Kryptonite locks by evilviper · 2004-09-18 15:44 · Score: 4, Interesting

This is a flaw in the barrel style key system.

No it isn't. It's a flaw in any cheap locks. You can open filling cabinets with a popsicle stick as well, and they aren't barrel locks.

This is a problem with any lock.

There are 2 things that a lock needs to prevent picking.

1) A system that will prevent it from unlocking if any tumbler is pushed even slightly further than it should have been. If this isn't in-place, even a blank-key that fits the lock will open it.

2) A system that prevents the tumblers from contacting with the locking mechanism. Otherwise, it's trivially easy to pick.

And that's only to impliment basic security. I don't have any format training, but I can open 90+% of locks I see...

Amazing as it may seem, quite a few safes don't follow rule #2. That means you can find the combination as fast as you could open it if you knew the combination. Also, it doesn't require any suspicious activity, as you just have a hand on the dial and a hand on the handle like you're someone that should be there...

--
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Re:This doesn't just affect Kryptonite locks by Sycraft-fu · 2004-09-18 16:33 · Score: 2, Interesting

Ya but it's more expensive to design a secure lock. I mean when I went sniffing about for house locks I could get most major brands like Kwikset at home depot for less than $50. This generally included a deadbolt and handle, sometimes more than one of each. Problem is they are quite easy to pick, as you note. You can literally use a paperclip and screwdriver, never mind if you have good tools, and you can get the keys copied anywhere.

Well there was also the Medeco high security lock option. These are near impossible to pick and have odd keys that only dealers can copy, and they won't without ID. Great security, but also $200 just for a deadbolt, and like $10 per key.

For my house, I'll drop $200 on a lock. The fact that roomates can't copy keys almost justifies it alone. For a bike, I dunno. I'm sure if Medeco made a U-lock it would be excellent in all respects and near unpickable, but am I going to spend over 50% of the bike's price on a lack, espically when a little liquid nitrogen could defeat it (of which we have a 5000 gallon tank at work)? Much harder sell there.

I do understand why most locks are cheap. People want to save money and most don't understand what is required to make a good lock. It's not like it's outwardly apparant. A good Kwikset lock looks in every way as sturdy as a Medeco. You have to understand how the internals work to understand which is better.
Re:This doesn't just affect Kryptonite locks by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-18 17:35 · Score: 2, Informative

Here's a Usenet post from 1992 that talks about the problem and refers to an article in "New Cyclist".

Somehow Microsoft is Behind This by iCharles · 2004-09-18 15:13 · Score: 4, Funny

After all, this is slashdot.

Your bike is safe... by ericpi · 2004-09-18 15:14 · Score: 4, Funny

...the DMCA will soon make pens illegal.

Oregonian had this as the lead article on Saturday by SlideGuitar · 2004-09-18 15:17 · Score: 2, Interesting

Normally the Oregonian is nothing to brag about, but damn if this wasn't the lead article
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf ?/base/front_page/1095508748276280.xml
on Saturday morning.

Makes me feel good to live in this town (Portland, aka Stumptown, aka River City aka the Rose City aka "the city that works") where the most important news in the world is that the locks we all use to secure our bikes aren't technically "locks." at all.

PDX is one two wheelin' city.

Remember... by k4_pacific · 2004-09-18 15:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

For less than the cost of a decent bike lock, you can buy a bike that's not worth stealing.

--
Unknown host pong.

Re:Remember... by SealBeater · 2004-09-18 15:19 · Score: 4, Insightful

There's no such thing. You'll be surprised how many crackheads and kids will
steal a bike.

SealBeater

--
-- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
Re:Remember... by Planesdragon · 2004-09-18 16:17 · Score: 2, Interesting

And when they do, you've got enough cash saved up to just buy a new one.

Boingboing covered this by metlin · 2004-09-18 15:22 · Score: 2, Informative

BoingBoing had it covered a long time ago.

Here're a couple of movies, too, with different locks - movie 1 and movie 2.

Problems with the lock by bluewee · 2004-09-18 15:23 · Score: 4, Informative

Tubular locks are usually designed so you have to turn it at least a quarter turn to open it, which would involve picking the lock several times. The Kryptonite they show releases the shackle in an intermediate position -- bad design there. A real tubular lock pick should open those locks; a simple plastic cylinder of the right diameter should not.

--
[blue] - The Ministry of Information approved this message...

Re:Problems with the lock by kidgenius · 2004-09-18 19:38 · Score: 2, Interesting

I've read this same exact post multiple times, and I still don't understand how having to turn it a quarter turn requires multiple picking. Any way to expand on this?
Re:Problems with the lock by theonetruekeebler · 2004-09-19 02:57 · Score: 2, Informative

Here's an oversimlification: To turn the lock, the tumblers must be pushed just far enough to slide around a groove. Tumblers actually have a top and a bottom half, and turning the lock generates new pairs, each of which must be repicked. Thus these locks have the advantage of being very tedious to pick using conventional methods.
They also have the advantage of being invulnerable to another popular method of defeating conventional locks: hammering in a flat-blade screwdriver and twisting like hell.
I find the Bic solution very elegant because I admire simple hacks that solve intricate problems (like holding down the shift key to defeat CD copy protection). Bummer that this affects me, though.

--
This is not my sandwich.

Circumvention device... by zeno_2 · 2004-09-18 15:25 · Score: 2, Funny

I always thought that a bic pen should be on that list =)

Oh this is a BIG help.... class action anyone? by SlideGuitar · 2004-09-18 15:25 · Score: 3, Insightful

If you are like me, you may own, say 3 kryptoloks, purchased over the last five years which you never bothered to register, and can't remember where you purchased them, or maybe you remember that you purchased them somewhere in Los Angeles and now you live in PDX... will this apply to unregistered locks? with no receipt? LIKE THOSE PROBABLY OWNED BY 90% OF FOLKS? ... and it sounds like they are only offering to let you spend more money on a new product by a company that sold you a defective product the first time around. "Please reward us for our mistake."

Unless they are willing to replace the defective product, maybe it's time for a class action law suit?

lots of PC cases too by skids · 2004-09-18 15:26 · Score: 2, Funny

I used a bic to open some used pc caselocks the other day. Just cut if off with an exacto where it was the right diameter, and ground it in there until it grabbed. On a bike lock, definitely a bug. On a PC case, I consider it a feature... because somewhere, under the ground, there's a strange sweaty gnome with a high pitched voice who stashes them in a desk drawer right next to a pile of everyone's lost socks.

--
Someone had to do it.

Something to remember by davmoo · 2004-09-18 15:28 · Score: 2, Interesting

While this is certainly something that lock manufacturers need to deal with, everyone needs to also keep one simple idea in mind.

The purpose of a lock is to keep honest and semi-honest people from taking your stuff. If someone is damned and determined to take your bike, he's going to get it, regardless of what lock you use.

I also have to nod in agreement with an earlier poster who pointed out that for the price of a fancy lock, you can get a bike that no one wants to steal. This is a perfect example of why my everyday driver car is an old beater that no one in their right mind would want to steal. If you're going to drive fancy stuff, then you have to accept that you are going to be a target.

--
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.

upgrade won't fix it by djtack · 2004-09-18 15:31 · Score: 4, Informative

Kryptonite today announced it will provide free product upgrades

From what I have read, the upgrade will replace the lock core with one of a smaller diameter. This isn't really a long term fix - someone will probably discover a different brand of pen that will open the new locks as well.

I have tried the Bic pen on my own Krypto lock - and it's really easy. The strange thing is, this isn't some design flaw with the lock. Everyone (hopefully) knows that all locks can be picked. But, it should be hard, requiring specialized tools and some skill. The Bic pen seems to have just the right magical combination of size, and balance of hard/soft plastic, that it makes an astonishingly effective lock pick. After opening my lock, the pen barrel had divots in it from the pins that looked just like my key. The plastic seems hard enough to push the pins down until they set, but then soft enough to hold the pin in that position.

Also, this isn't exactly breaking news.

Re:Look people by DLR · 2004-09-18 15:33 · Score: 3, Insightful

No, locks just make a cost/benefit analysis necessary to the theif. True security is a dream, a myth. Any lock or security system can be broken, the question is how valuable is whatever's behind the security system to the assailant, and is it worth the risk/effort?

--
"Like fire and fusion, government is a dangerous servant and a terrible master."~RAH

Quick sue them with DMCA! by rsletten · 2004-09-18 15:35 · Score: 5, Funny

Quick! Sue BIC under the DMCA as a device that can defeat a security lock

Warranty by Comatose51 · 2004-09-18 15:39 · Score: 3, Interesting

I remember Kryptonite locks have a manufacturer's guarantee against thief. Is this covered? If someone's bike gets stolen, would they replacec it still?

--
EvilCON - Made Famous by /.

Re:Hasn't this been posted before, like 2 months a by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-18 15:41 · Score: 2, Funny

You know slashdot's anti-Kryptonite bias. All these anti-kryptonite zealots here. Geeze, this place is becoming the free republic version for the anti-kryptonite zealots. You just know if a flaw like this was found in BSD or Linux, it'd be played down.

Yes, I am mocking all the MS sympathizing weenies who come out in full force to decry anything negative about MS at all, whether deserved or undeserved.

Microsoft and Virus-writers by glomph · 2004-09-18 15:43 · Score: 2, Informative

So how is this different? Somebody makes a supposedly secure product (which it is not) that is overpriced (which MS products ARE). Somebody else finds that the thing is a piece of crap, and disseminates this knowledge. Who's the bad guy? The big corporation that makes money from marketing garbage? Hah.

It _IS_ a design flaw. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-18 15:49 · Score: 5, Interesting

The pins in the lock are vunlerable to being raked because they're all set in roughly the same position. If they were disparate, you couldn't successfully rake them (except if you were very lucky and could bite chunks out of your bic pen to match the right key :)

The problem is not the issue. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-18 15:52 · Score: 5, Funny

The solution to the problem, THAT is the issue. Let's gather around and think of what the big organizations/individuals would do to solve a problem such as this.

US goverment: Liberate bike from thief using a squadron of B2 bombers. At one point or another, several brits die, even if Rhumself has to find them and kill them himself. Bic pens linked to Al-Qaida.
Australian goverment: Send in Steve Irwin. If he gets killed, it's a good thing. If catches the thief, it's a better thing.
Brittish goverment: Sod the thief, fancy a scone, dear chap?
United Nations: Convene in an emergency session, go into recess after 10 minutes for cookies and tea. In the end, they condemn the theft but none of them manages to do fuck all.
European Union: The French and the Brits start bitching at eachother about which country has superior Bic pens. Germany and Spain wonder since when the damn Brits are part of Europe. The rest of Europe tried to talk tough before getting bitchslapped into submission by Germany and France.

RIAA: Claim that people who open locks use it to fund terrorism. Randomly sue locksmiths.
Microsoft: Vehemently deny existence of faulty locks. Release hotfix for existing locks, which consists of pouring glue in keyhole.
SCO: Sue Bic, 3M, Canada, a random seagull and the tooth fairy for copyright infringement on their proprietary way of opening locks with ballpoints.

Richard Stallman: Proudly proclaim the bike simply wanted to be free.
Eric S Raymond: Something irrelevant that contains a plug for "The Cathedral and the Bazaar".
Larry Wall: Make all locks so confusing that thieves don't know how to open them. Nor do the owners. Or manufacturers, for that matter.
George Lucas: Make a movie about bikes being stolen with Bic pens. Milk this movie out until 2050.
Bruce Willis: Get a bunch of oil drillers to find the thief and shove a nuke up his ass. And for the love of Eris, someone PLEASE screw Liv Tyler!

Re:The problem is not the issue. by schwit1 · 2004-09-18 17:36 · Score: 2, Funny

You forgot the George Lucas part where 10 years later he changes the movie's sound of the lock being picked to that of a .44 Magnum.
Re:The problem is not the issue. by 21st+Century+Peon · 2004-09-19 00:39 · Score: 2, Funny

US Government keeps bike.
North Korea openly admits to experimenting with blue ink and lids that whistle, but US ignores them because they don't have a bike. The lucrative Iraqi bike-security contract goes to Kryptonite, whose CEO is a member of the same golf club as Dick Cheney.

--
"Knowledge, sir, should be free to all!"
~Harcourt Fenton Mudd

Simple solution... by emag · 2004-09-18 15:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

Pass a law declaring Bic pens to be "burglary tools", which can only be carried by "licensed professionals", and arrest anyone found in possession of one without a license. It works so well for lock pick kits...

--
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --H.L. Mencken

Volvo Jacks ---- U-locks are worthless by infonography · 2004-09-18 16:00 · Score: 3, Informative

Still the best way to beat a U-lock. Aside from a lock with insurance and good documentation there isn't final protection. This as been true since the 80's.

--
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23

Re:Volvo Jacks ---- U-locks are worthless by supertsaar · 2004-09-18 21:52 · Score: 2, Insightful

Meanwhile in Amsterdam, Bike thieves use _your_bike_ as a cantilever if you forget to use two locks in such a way that the bike can't be rotated. Off course, many bikes are destroyed (especially the lightweight ones) when they try stealing them like this.... I guess Amsterdam is at least as bad as New York when it comes to stealing bikes (but I've never been there), there's a whole black market economy here based on '2nd hand' bikes (btw: if people stop buying stolen bikes, thieves might stop stealing them....don't blame it all just on the thieves...) My tactics : Use at least two completely different locks (thieves specialise in certain lock types) (I use three normally) Try to get the locks as tight as possible, making sure the bike itself can't be used to exert brute force on them. Park your bike in a spot where everybody can see it. Use a bike that looks like sh*t and is f*cking old but despite its looks still rides well. I've had about three bikes stolen in ten years, usually when I used only one lock or made some other mistake. Bottom line is: if they really want your bike, they are going to take it....no matter what you do.

--
The Bigger The Headache The Bigger the Pill

The Microsoft of Locks by hng_rval · 2004-09-18 16:00 · Score: 4, Funny

From TFA (Boston.com):
"This is an extremely big deal. Kryptonite is the Microsoft of locks," said Brown, who estimates hundreds of thousands of the U-locks have been sold over the years. Kryptonite will not divulge sales numbers.

Well, they certainly are more like Microsoft now. Good for them :)

--
Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!

picking locks by xmp_phrack · 2004-09-18 16:01 · Score: 2, Informative

I heard about the ease of Kryponite picking back in the mid-nineties. It was in the lockpicking FAQs. There's also an $150 pick that can open most of those barrel (?) type locks. Home (non-institutional) MasterLocks were also easy prey before the 1998 versions. The last number could be determined in seconds and then the rest of numbers would fall into this formula: n1 mod 4 = n2 mod 4 + 2 = n3 mod 4 This reduces 16,000 combinations to 100 (10*10*1) which can be brute forced.

Cost/benefit by Viadd · 2004-09-18 16:01 · Score: 2, Interesting

It is easy to design locks, even tumbler-mechanism mechanical locks, that are unpickable by the standard manipulation techniques.

It is even possible to build these 'unpickable' locks for a small multiple what a standard lock of the same mechanical quality would cost.

You can make it difficult enough that burning or drilling the core, or taking a fire-ax to the door, is much more feasible than any manipulation technique. When the locking mechanism is no longer the weakest link, then it no longer makes sense to spend more on an improved lock.

But jeez, a bic pen and 5 seconds...

..quote.. by MarkMcLeod · 2004-09-18 16:03 · Score: 2, Funny

"Many in the bike community fear drug addicts and high school pranksters will go wild with Bic pens this weekend, leading to a surge in the crime statistics"

Drug addicts and pranksters have places to go too.

Re:Having equiped my bike...Bike's name is "spike" by entitude · 2004-09-18 16:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

You know, he's probably intending to ride it himself, if he's trying to protect it from theft.

--
----geppy -

Almost by TitusC3v5 · 2004-09-18 16:10 · Score: 2, Informative

Not quite a dupe, but close. Kensington Locks were found to have the same problem last month.

--
And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"

For those in the UK by PhatAir · 2004-09-18 16:11 · Score: 3, Informative

caveat - IANAL, but I'm reasonably clued up on consumer law

In the UK, the 1979 Sale of Goods Act says that items must be of 'Fit for Purpose' & 'Of Merchantable Quality' (ie it does what it's meant to without breaking). Your contract is with the shop not the end manufacturer, so you are entitled to walk into wherever you purchased it and demand a replacement or your money back. You needn't get fobbed off with claims such as 'take it up with the manufacturer' as your contract's with the shop. Kryponite can't even put a time limit on it as a lock that's opened using a biro's clearly not 'Fit for Purpose'. Any shop that doesn't comply can be reported to the trading standards authority who take a very dim view of people not complying to said act!

NPR story by CrkHead · 2004-09-18 16:13 · Score: 2, Informative

All Thing s Considered on NPR had a story about this last night.

For those interested, it is available in Real or WMF format.

Slashdot Effect ... FOR GREAT JUSTICE! by H_Fisher · 2004-09-18 16:17 · Score: 3, Funny

For once, the Slashdot Effect could be used for good instead of evil! Yeah, once in a while a poor sap's DSL-served Windows box is reduced to molten slag because it was serving the homepage that got linked in a Slashdot story. But tonight, if the server with these instructions falls to the mighty Slashdot Effect, think of all the bikes that WON'T be stolen! Think of all the money that'll be saved by wiping these directions off the Internet for good and all!*

So keep on reloading, Slashdotters! Hundreds, nay - Thousands! - of cyclists' dreams are in your hands!

* Yeah, I know there are mirrors and the Google cache. Yeah, this is a joke.

Didn't we already go over this. by Holi · 2004-09-18 16:20 · Score: 2, Informative

This was discussed earlier in this article.

--
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.

In Related News... by iamatlas · 2004-09-18 16:21 · Score: 3, Funny

In related news, Kryptonite has also come under fire from critics for killing Superman.

Nope by YrWrstNtmr · 2004-09-18 16:44 · Score: 3, Informative

The warranty is only good if the lock is damaged/broken during the theft. If they cut the bike rack, and pick the lock later...no dice. If they pick the lock (BIC pen or whatever), no dice.

Equal opportunity. by Grendel+Drago · 2004-09-18 16:44 · Score: 4, Insightful

Don't get so cocky. Dictatorships are available in new crunchy Right-Wing Flavor (tm) as well.

--grendel drago

--
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca

Only to "special" customers by fmaxwell · 2004-09-18 17:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

Kryptonite today announced it will provide free product upgrades for certain locks purchased since September 2002

What they don't mention is that the flaw was first documented in the trade publication "Bicycle Business" magazine in 1992. So they've been knowingly selling defective locks for 12 years since then hoping that this day would never come.

I've got five Krytonite locks:

Two KryptoLok ATB U-Locks, one of which was never taken out of the package.
One KryptoDisco-C motorcycle disc brake lock.
One 6' x 5/8" Kryptonite Flex Security cable lock.
One Kryptonie Flex Security U-Lock.

All of the locks are in very good to new condition and all of them are older than two years old. That means I get no replacement locks from Kryptonite nor do I get any upgrades. I hear tell that I might get coupons for rebates on new Kryptonite locks. But it will be a cold day in hell before I ever buy another Kryptonite product if they don't fix or replace the locks I have at no charge to me.

I am not being unreasonable. A lock, if well-cared for, is a lifetime investment. A well cared for lock that's five years old is no less useful than one which is 1 year old. Why should Kryptonite customers suffer because Kryptonite chose to knowinging, and deceptively, sell a defective product for over a decade? Anyone who bought a Krytonite lock with this flaw since the original article was published in 1992 should get a free upgrade/replacement.

Re:More free prizes? by GoRK · 2004-09-18 17:23 · Score: 4, Informative

I have a vending machine to try this on. It is a GIII Royal Vendors unit similar to all machines used by Coca Cola for about the past 10 years (though the faces have changed). First, The tumbler takes a 270 degree turn of the key to unlock. Every time you turn it past a set of pins, you'd have to re-pick the lock. To open this lock, you'd have to pick it proably upwards of 15 times -- Due to the design of the machine, it would be easier to physically pop or drill the cylinder itself. If you just want to steal the money out of it, you can just go through the lexan and use a crowbar to get at the coin changer and overflow box. Accessing the bill changer storage will require the lock to be removed.

Royal Vendors sells high security versions of these machines, though that put a large steel bar over the normal cylinder that can be locked with a padlock. They can also replace the lexan front with sheet steel and add plating around the front door to make it impossible to wedge a pry bar in there easily. My machine has the padlock bar and the side plating, but not the steel front.

Coke machines aren't really worth breaking into for the ~$100 or less that you could get out of them..

It's true by HangingChad · 2004-09-18 17:42 · Score: 3, Funny

Right outside just about any train station in Sweden will be a couple hundred odd bikes. You take one to go where you need to go and drop it off again when it's time to take the train back to where ever you're going. It's part of their public transportation system.

And as a side note, let me tell you that everything you've heard about Swedish women is absolutely true. I met more tall blonde women there than any other place on the planet. Blonde isn't quite right, though. Not like Marilyn Monroe blonde. It's more like dishwater blonde. And friendly...not like on this side of the world.

And they serve beer with lunch.

Let's see legions of tall blonde friendly women, beer with lunch, you can go like hell on the freeway and free bikes. Is that a great country or what? Throw in free broadband and you'd be right into /. nirvana.

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That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage

Screw locks. by EvilStein · 2004-09-18 18:14 · Score: 2, Funny

I just leave a big hungry Rottweiler with an attitude problem tied to my bike. It's great because nobody will steal the bike, and when I need that extra boost going up the hills, I yell "Chopper, sic balls!" and point at someone up the street.

Socialism is the only hope by Rank_Tyro · 2004-09-18 18:20 · Score: 5, Funny

When stationed at Kunsan AB korea, circa 1993, the only transportation option open to enlisted people was a bicycle. You could buy one at the base BX for about $100 bucks. For an additional $4.oo dollars, you could buy a chain with a built in combination lock. The biggest problem with the entire system was this.......EVERYONE had the same model bike, and the same chain/lock. You could literally spend a half hour trying to find the bike and chain that belonged to you. This was quite a problem for some of us, untill we learned that with a bit of tension on the lock, and a bit of manual dexterity, you could open any of the locks in about 45 seconds. After that, we all adopted the idea that those of us that had purchased a bike, but couldnt find it anymore, could just go ahead and ride what ever bike was handy. After all, EVERYONE had the same bike and lock, so really...........all bikes were secretly the one you bought. Therefore, if you were able to pick the lock, you were entitled to ride the bike. This Utopia breaks down when you consider that in most cities, not everyone buys the same bike and lock. Therefore, it is incumbent on the government to provide everyone with a bike, thus insuring that there is no need for anyone to steal a bike. I will be putting this idea to my senator soon.....hopefully everyone will have a new bicycle in time for the novemeber elections

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Today's show is brought to you by the number 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0: 25

Re:Socialism is the only hope by Monoman · 2004-09-19 00:47 · Score: 2, Informative

Similar to Portland's Yellow Bike Program years ago.

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Keep the Classic Slashdot.

tubular by xmp_phrack · 2004-09-18 18:37 · Score: 2, Interesting

Dunno if this works against Kryptonite, but here's a tubular lock pick:
http://www.lock-depot.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idp roduct=48

No need for lock with a folding bike by KWTm · 2004-09-18 19:24 · Score: 2, Interesting

I use a Brompton folding bike http://bromptonbicycle.co.uk/ and don't use a lock. You don't need a lock when the bike can fit under your office chair. The bike comes with me wherever I go, e.g. underneath the shopping cart as I go grocery shopping, etc. I keep it in the trunk of my (compact) car --in fact, it folds small enough that I can fit my wife's Brompton as well as mine in the trunk-- and if I need to go somewhere were parking is a problem, I can park a few blocks away and zip to my destination on the bike.

Here's a (coralized) link to my web site showing the bike as it unfolds:
http://dreaming.org.nyud.net:8090/~kwtam/folding/b ike/
(as usual, Slashdot has inserted a space into the text...)

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404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]

Re:It's true -- NOT! by David+Byers · 2004-09-18 21:36 · Score: 2, Informative

Which Sweden did you visit?

In the one I live in, taking a bike from the rack outside a train station will get you hauled to court, you can only go 65 on the freeway, blonde comes out of a bottle, the beer you get with lunch is weak and dull and broadband costs an arm and a leg.

I want to go to *your* Sweden!

Re:It's true -- NOT! by Tempelherr · 2004-09-19 00:06 · Score: 2, Interesting

Oy. What you say is definitely true.

I can't believe how expensive broadband is.

So far, I havn't been too impressed with Sweden or the apartment I am living in. After 4 weeks my new apartment is still without furniture, despite me paying 200 kr a month for furniture rental and talking to everyone I can who might have any power over that fact. I'm still sleeping on the floor in the corner of my empty room. Up until a week ago, I didn't even have light/electricity. And the apartment is supposed to have that all included.

Not to mention that it is a three room apartment (it is a family apartment that has been rented out by the studentbostad for students), yet they crammed three Pakistanis into one room, so now I am living with four other people, with no furniture, and no internet access.

If I didn't know any better, I might even think Sweden was a third world country.

GOD damn I'm sick of these posts! by theLOUDroom · 2004-09-19 03:50 · Score: 3, Interesting

WTF PEOPLE!!
This isn't a "known caveat", this is gross neglience on the part of a manufacturer.

While this is certainly something that lock manufacturers need to deal with, everyone needs to also keep one simple idea in mind.
The purpose of a lock is to keep honest and semi-honest people from taking your stuff. If someone is damned and determined to take your bike, he's going to get it, regardless of what lock you use.

People like you are totally missing the point. This is like an airbag company making airbags that don't work 90% of the time! Sure it's a better idea never to get in an accident, but that's not the frickin point.

The point is kryptonite's locks are billed as "highly secure". They are not. This has been known in select circles (and kryptonite was informed) since at least 1992, yet the manufacturer has done nothing with that information to fix the problem.

I also have to nod in agreement with an earlier poster who pointed out that for the price of a fancy lock, you can get a bike that no one wants to steal.

This is total nonsense. Increbile POS bikes get stolen all the time, see my post about my friend's bike.

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Life is too short to proofread.

Sure. by Grendel+Drago · 2004-09-19 07:08 · Score: 2, Informative

Sure---any Communist nation. Cuba, North Korea, China, the former Soviet Union and its satellite states.

The political 'spectrum' is more of a circle. Farthest left and farthest right meet in a fusion of totalitarianism. Because what they want, even more than their own ideologies, is control. And that's what dictatorships are about.

--grendel drago

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Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca

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