Doom 3 Linux Client

Uh by rakarnik · 2004-09-22 09:15 · Score: 2, Insightful

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=117228&c id=9914322 What part of that comment did you not understand?!?! Talk about an even more misleading headline. Would it be so hard to add "in testing"?

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Genebrew

Re:Uh by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-22 13:09 · Score: 0, Funny

Unless.
Re:Uh by Quobobo · 2004-09-22 21:05 · Score: 1

No, I think this is specifically to annoy people like you who will almost have heart attacks over a video game. Nobody else cares, and we can at least read the post before jumping to conclusions.
Re:Uh by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-23 07:00 · Score: 0

Was it so hard to add a goddamn anchor tag to your stupid link, fuckwad?

But... by redog · 2004-09-22 09:17 · Score: 5, Funny

Is there and ebuild for it yet?

Re:But... by Apreche · 2004-09-22 09:30 · Score: 3, Informative

bash_3_prompt $ esearch -Sc doom [ N] doomsday (1.8.1): A modern gaming engine for Doom, Heretic, and Hexen [ N] lsdldoom (1.4.4.4): Port of ID's doom to SDL [ N] doomlegacy (1.42): Doom legacy, THE doom port [ N] freedoom (0.2): Freedoom - Open Source Doom resources [ N] prboom (2.2.4-r1): Port of ID's doom to SDL and OpenGL [ N] doom-data (1): collection of doom wad files from id [ N] yadex (1.7.0): A Doom level (wad) editor [ N] glbsp (2.05): A node builder specially designed for OpenGL ports of the DOOM game engine [ N] wmdl (1.4.1): WindowMaker Doom Load dockapp [ N] gkrellflynn (0.7): A funny GKrellM (1 or 2) load monitor (for Doom(tm) fans)
Not yet, but soon. Very soon.

--
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
Re:But... by wertarbyte · 2004-09-23 01:44 · Score: 1

Sure, they also prepare a package for Debian Sarge. It will be released in a bundle with Duke Nukem Forever.

--
Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh.

Cool by ChopsMIDI · 2004-09-22 09:25 · Score: 5, Interesting

I'm excited to see what kind of performance difference there is between the Win32 and the linux client.

The Native Linux Client for Quake 3 ran MUCH faster for me than in Windows....to the point that I stopped playing Q3A in Windows altogether, simply because I could crank my Resolution much higher in Linux and it ran perfectly (like 100 FPS).

I hope it's the same for Doom3....It'll be like a free hardware upgrade.

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How could I say to men: "Speak louder, shout! For I am deaf!"? -Ludwig van Beethoven

Re:Cool by hawkbug · 2004-09-22 09:30 · Score: 1

So help me out here - I don't understand how they can do this so easily. I was under the impression that games like Doom/Quake used Microsoft DirectX . If that's the case, how do they easily port it to Linux, or Mac for that matter? I love that they do it, I just don't understand how. I'm glad to see the windows platform isn't the only one getting these cool games.
Re:Cool by grm_wnr · 2004-09-22 09:37 · Score: 5, Informative

Most FPSs do, but id software, for some reason, seems to prefer an OPEN, NON-MICROSOFT standard which is available for most platforms (OpenGL).
Re:Cool by chrismcdirty · 2004-09-22 09:38 · Score: 1

A friend told me that the only thing Doom 3 uses DirectX for is DirectInput. Don't know how true it is, but DI could probably be translated pretty easily to SDL by the guys at id.

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It's like sex, except I'm having it!
Re:Cool by rincebrain · 2004-09-22 09:39 · Score: 1

Doom didn't use any 3D acceleration. Nor did Doom II, if memory serves.
Quake [or possibly Hexen or Heretic, I forget] was the first of id's games to use 3D acceleration.

Doom III may use DirectX, or it may use OpenGL. I don't know, offhand. *checks*

Well, nobody seems to have it offhand. Suffice it to say that there are 3D rendering libraries for each OS, and some are quite portable. As such, it's not more than rewriting the engine itself to make use of the calls...^_^

So in short, it's not easy, unless they planned it from the get-go.

--
It's only an insult if it's not true.
Re:Cool by jwbozzy · 2004-09-22 09:45 · Score: 5, Informative
Ok, for the last time, Doom3 Win32 uses:
- OpenGL for graphics
- DirectX's DirectInput for input
- DirectX's DirectSound for sound
There is no Direct3D involved. Just remember, DirectX != Direct3D.
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perl -e 'printf("mmm %x\n", 3735928559)'
Re:Cool by BinLadenMyHero · 2004-09-22 10:14 · Score: 2, Informative

Doom II had the same engine as Doom I.
Quake had no 3D acceleration (tought later glQuake was released).
Quake II had software rendering and 3D acceleration was an option.
Quake III was the first id game that required 3D acceleration.
Re:Cool by BinLadenMyHero · 2004-09-22 10:17 · Score: 1

Well, in fact, Quake III required OpenGL.
I remember to run it at home before having a 3D card.
Mesa (an OpenGL implementation) rendered a nice slideshow, at ~2 frames per second :P
Re:Cool by rincebrain · 2004-09-22 10:20 · Score: 1

My apologies. I, ironically, had a copy of Masters of Doom not two feet to my right when I wrote that.

I guess I should have RTFBook first. >_

--
It's only an insult if it's not true.
Re:Cool by FueledByRamen · 2004-09-22 11:08 · Score: 3, Interesting

On the performance differences side, I had the same experience. The machine was an AMD K6/2 400 with a 3dfx Voodoo3 2000 16MB AGP - Windows 2000 and (Redhat) Linux dual boot.

Under Windows - Quake3 was fine in 1024x768, slow to the point of unplayability at 1280x1024.

Under Linux - After finally getting hardware 3d acceleration working (wow, I never want to hear the words "Glide OpenGL Wrapper" ever again...) - completely playable in 1600x1200, highest detail settings, at 50 FPS (bottoming out at 30FPS with too many rockets onscreen). On a Voodoo 3. I was absolutely amazed.

I doubt the differences will be THAT pronounced (I blame it on 3dfx's Windows drivers being horrible), but it certainly would be nice to have the Linux port of Doom3 running faster than on Windows.

--
Every cloud has a silver lining (except for the mushroom shaped ones, which have a lining of Iridium & Strontium 90)
Re:Cool by vasqzr · 2004-09-22 12:19 · Score: 1

1600x1200, 50fps on a K6-2 400MHz? With a 16MB Voodoo3?

I call bullshit.

Link

Here's a K6-400 running Quake 2 @ 1024x768, Voodoo3, ~40fps
Re:Cool by vasqzr · 2004-09-22 12:24 · Score: 1

I found another link, Here

Pentium III 550MHz, pushing 1600x1200, Quake III, 21.2 FPS, Voodoo 3 3500.

I also rememeber everyone talking about Windows running the same game faster/better than under Linux.
Re:Cool by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-22 12:53 · Score: 0

On nVidia hardware/drivers, Quake III benchmarks basically the same speed in Windows and Linux -- maybe 2-3fps faster in Linux, but that could easily be testing noise.
Re:Cool by superpulpsicle · 2004-09-22 13:18 · Score: 1

DirectInput for input sounds like Doom III is using DirectX9 to handle keyboard strokes. And all the important stuff is going over to OpenGL.
Re:Cool by jwbozzy · 2004-09-22 13:30 · Score: 1

Nah, controlling the game couldn't possibly be important... Sounds? What sounds? Who needs 'em! GRAPHICS FOR EVERYONE!!!

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perl -e 'printf("mmm %x\n", 3735928559)'
Re:Cool by Lisandro · 2004-09-22 13:46 · Score: 1

Same here. I don't know if the game is faster, FPS-wise, but it does feel much much much more smooth and responsive. Same with Quake 2, and same with the original Unreal. UT2004 runs just the same over Windows and Linux (through levels on Linux load quite faster) - maybe this is because the game is already pushing the limits of y system.

Anyway, on my XP1800+ with 512mb and GfFX5200 Doom 3 runs nicely at 640x480, but things do get choppy when there's a lot of action going on. I would love to see a perfomance boost from the Linux client, never mind avoiding reboots.

All in all, thank you iD. You guys rock.
Re:Cool by Kuad · 2004-09-22 20:28 · Score: 1

I think you'll find that you'll only get good performance with an Nvidia GPU. ATI's Linux drivers don't perform very well with recent hardware.
Re:Cool by stoborrobots · 2004-09-22 22:59 · Score: 1

Which is in windows - where he claimed a K6-2 was too slow to play (less than 20 fps by your own admission)...

so where's the contradiction?

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"Go to CNN [for a] spell-checked, fact-checked summary" -- CmdrTaco
Re:Cool by Tritoph · 2004-09-23 06:21 · Score: 1

And all I have to say to refute your claim is that it's Tom's Hardware...

Do you know how much a pile of lying bullshit whoever-pays-for-the-ads-and-takes-us-out-to- expensive-dinners Tom's Hardware Guide is?
Re:Cool by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-28 01:47 · Score: 0

You definitely did not get 50FPs out of that hardware. However, the native binaries do tend to run faster than it would on Windows, and they also load up quicker.

When I used Q3A on Win98 it was regularly crashing and had problems switching to fullscreen. It did the same thing on my friends computer. I have also had a bad nVIDIA driver that made my Q3A/Linux just as crashy, though I worked around that problem .. so there's no way of knowing if I was just unlucky on Windows those two times, or if it is all Q3A/Win32 setups that are buggy.

I would say the performance gain over Windows was about 10 to 15%. Nothing ground-breaking, but noticeable. Far more important was that I could play it for 14 hours straight without it crashing once, whereas Windows never let me get past an hour or two without Q3A crashing.

- raven morris

and on AMD64 by MexicanMenace · 2004-09-22 09:35 · Score: 1

*drool*

Heh.... by ReKleSS · 2004-09-22 09:39 · Score: 1

Damn you, Murphy! At this rate, I'm going to have finished the game just as the client comes out... Oh well, at least I'm playing under linux, even if it's not a native binary.
-ReK

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md5sum -c reality.md5 reality: FAILED md5sum: WARNING: 1 of 1 computed checksum did NOT match

They don't use DirectX... by Ayanami+Rei · 2004-09-22 09:42 · Score: 5, Informative

Rather, they use OpenGL and a thin API over the other parts of DirectX (sound, input). OpenGL is cross-platform.

Porting is not bad...
1) Most resources are relative paths inside zip files or flat in a directory, so you remove filesystem issues (path seperators/case sensitivity).
2) The game code that uses DirectX for non-video stuff is kept to a library used specifically to interface the game code to the system.
Most of the work is just rewriting that library to use equivalent functions on Linux.
3) WineX has a DirectX emulation layer that can be used as a guide for 3.
4) Side note- SDL pretty much takes care of everything in DirectX, minus DirectShow. Can also be used as a guide.
5) NVidia has development tools (shader compilers and whatnot) that work on Linux.

Same goes for MacOSX, really...

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THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON

Re:They don't use DirectX... by Ford+Prefect · 2004-09-22 09:52 · Score: 2, Interesting

Rather, they use OpenGL and a thin API over the other parts of DirectX (sound, input). OpenGL is cross-platform.

If it's anything like Quake 2, it'll have its own internal sound and display APIs, with some simple platform-specific stuff at the very end. I get the impression Quake 2 could be ported to a new system just by writing a couple of new files and using that as the target...

Actually, slightly irrelevantly, I've been busy poking around in the demo's .pk4 datafile, and most of the data is already portable. Textures are DDS or TGA, audio is OGG or WAV, and everything else is text-files. Models, animations, scripting, even the sodding maps - it's plain, human-readable text!

It's not XML (heh), but it's definitely not some endian-specific binary garbage...

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Cedega by Ford+Prefect · 2004-09-22 09:43 · Score: 4, Interesting

I downloaded the Windows demo earlier this week, in the hope of getting it to run on my (somewhat rubbish) PC. Of course, my games-only Windows 98 installation turned out to be somewhat insufficient - while the demo installed, it refused to run. Some hex-editing of the Doom3.exe as recommended for the full game turned out to be worthless, making it crash immediately after launch.

So, I decided to give Linux a try. I found a clever shell script for downloading the latest Cedega from CVS, and gave that a try. It worked brilliantly.

Absolutely no visual glitches, no audio glitches, and completely, utterly and boringly stable. Only criticism was that the frame rate was rather low, but I'm not surprised - my PC's below minimum specs processor-wise (1.1GHz Athlon), although merely low-end graphics-wise (128MB GF4Ti).

It'll be interesting to compare the performance of the native client with the running-on-Cedega one - I really wonder how much processor time Cedega takes to do all its API-translation thing.

As for the game? It's ... Interesting, but highly derivative. Pretty atmospheric, and an intriguing engine - but gameplay was rather dull, and the poor sound-effects really didn't help. Footsteps sounded horrible and far too repetitive, likewise a lot of the other sounds. Plus the repetition wasn't confined to the audio, with way too much scripting and linearity...

Will I buy the game? Probably, eventually, but only when it's come down in price. ;-)

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Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?

Re:Cedega by malejko · 2004-09-22 12:00 · Score: 3, Informative

*looks at the box for Doom 3*

Doesn't support Windoze 98. Win 2k/XP only.

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-Adam
Re:Cedega by minasoko · 2004-09-22 20:35 · Score: 1

Footsteps sounded horrible and far too repetitive, likewise a lot of the other sounds.
The first patch fixes a bug which should make the weapon sounds a little richer. From the readme:
-Fixed weapon sounds always playing the first sound in a sound shader instead of randomly picking one.
Re:Cedega by frission · 2004-09-23 02:58 · Score: 1

if you have a complaint on sound effects you might try to download the Trent Reznor sound effects. I believe they are the sounds from the leaked alpha, but you can use the pk4 file from that and put it in the full build and use those sound effects instead of the new ones. There were a couple of gaming sites hosting these files, but I don't remember which.
Re:Cedega by Ford+Prefect · 2004-09-23 03:25 · Score: 1

if you have a complaint on sound effects you might try to download the Trent Reznor sound effects.

I'd seen some link for this file somewhere - and I hadn't realised what it was. It was Reznor who did the (excellent) Quake sound, wasn't it?

Anyway, here's a Bittorrent copy from Filerush - I'll have a go to see if the demo can be 'persuaded' to use them... ;-)

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Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
Re:Cedega by frission · 2004-09-23 04:27 · Score: 1

Yes, Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) has always been a big id fan and id's been a big fan of his. He was originally scheduled to do the soundtrack for doom 3 like he did for Quake, but it fell through somehow. It looks like he was able to get a lot of work done on it though. Since then, Chris Vrenna(?) has done the sound. He also did the sound for ALICE and used to be a member of Nine Inch Nails. He now has his own band Tweaker.
Re:Cedega by bbrazil · 2004-09-24 04:48 · Score: 0

Doesn't support Windoze 98. Win 2k/XP only.

Trust me install it - change two bytes to nulls and it runs fine. Instructions here (I run 98SE)

Before anyone asks yes, I did buy the game
Re:Cedega by malejko · 2004-09-24 08:10 · Score: 1

I guess they just don't 'support' anything less than Windows 2000. No biggie..

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-Adam

Anyone can find the file ? by da5idnetlimit.com · 2004-09-22 09:44 · Score: 4, Insightful

Here they announce the beta is available on Shacknews but I cannot find it, which is a bit frustrating... full text here under :

"id Software's Robert Duffy updated his .plan file tonight to announce an open beta test for the Win32 DOOM 3 patch at Shacknews, an update in which he also commented on the status of the Linux dedicated server:

We have released the first update for DOOM 3 as a beta and on a limited scale ( it is only available on the File Shack at www.shacknews.com ). We don't anticipate any issues with it but felt it best to get it into the hands of a few thousand people rather than the entire customer base in case we missed something. We will release the update through our update server for wide release once we have verified there are no problems with it.

We will be releasing another update in the near future that will include Punk Busters cheat protection functionality for DOOM III.

The SDK is also ready to go and as soon as the update is out in non beta form the SDK will be made available for download.

The Linux Dedicated server is also ready to go and will also be available as soon as the update is non beta.

Presumably, this indicates the Linux client isn't all that far away either."

I found here all the I could on doom 3 and Id software in Fileshack...

So, almighty Slashcrowd, who can help mefind the precious , working Doom 3 for Linux ?

--
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker

Re:Anyone can find the file ? by Zenikase · 2004-09-22 13:34 · Score: 1

"We will be releasing another update in the near future that will include Punk Busters cheat protection functionality for DOOM III."

:(

Mod Parent Informative. by rincebrain · 2004-09-22 09:50 · Score: 1

I thought that might be the case, but I had no evidence.

Thanks for clearing that up.

--
It's only an insult if it's not true.

here... by da5idnetlimit.com · 2004-09-22 09:54 · Score: 1

only the win32 server for now...
Still not the linux one, which will be released...

--
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker

You misread it by ReKleSS · 2004-09-22 11:16 · Score: 3, Informative

The only thing on shacknews is the beta of the patch - not the beta of the linux client. That's in private testing, not public testing.
-ReK

--
md5sum -c reality.md5 reality: FAILED md5sum: WARNING: 1 of 1 computed checksum did NOT match

MacOS X? by antdude · 2004-09-22 11:59 · Score: 2, Insightful

I wonder when MacOS X version will be done.

--
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).

Re:MacOS X? by agent+oranje · 2004-09-22 13:02 · Score: 1

Ditto. I was hoping it was being developed across Win32/Linux/MacOS simultaneously... especially seeing as the first demo of the game was on MacOS X.

Epic has been pretty good with their porting as of late, why is iD now falling behind?

--
-agent oranje.
Re:MacOS X? by antdude · 2004-09-22 13:30 · Score: 0, Troll

agent oranje: Yep, Unreal Tournament 2004 is the winner for this round to me. id Software is losing respect from me. They were the best during Quake game days in terms of cross platform support.

--
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Re:MacOS X? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-23 00:32 · Score: 0

id Software is losing respect from me. They were the best during Quake game days in terms of cross platform support.

Er, what? Quake was DOS only, plus a few console ports (N64 had one, don't know about others). The ports to Linux and MacOS only appeared after the game was open-sourced.

So their cross-platform support is IMPROVING STEADILY, not going downhill. What the fuck are you complaining about?!

I would buy it just to support for Linux gaming... by john_sheu · 2004-09-22 12:50 · Score: 0, Offtopic

...or not. We all know that in order to enjoy more support from commercial companies as to Linux software we must prove commercial viability, but buying something just because it runs under Linux is just as bad as buying something just because it runs under Windows. No, our criteron must also include that it is actually decent software, or else we might foster the unreasonable belief that "any Linux software no matter how bad will have a massive geek following". We must promote Linux software, just not bad Linux software.

Thus, in this case I will not be buying Doom3. It is impressive, to be sure, but I don't like the game.

Re:I would buy it just to support for Linux gaming by nukem996 · 2004-09-22 13:44 · Score: 1

Well im excite to get the game and play it from start to finish. Even if the game isnt as great as I am hoping there will always be mods. The main reason I bought Q3A was for the mods out there, if you remember Q3A has no single player. Anyway im hoping that TuxGames gets the Doom III DVD Linux version in ASAP.

Re:FP by St.+Arbirix · 2004-09-22 15:24 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Since it's obvious the moderators couldn't understand my humour, I was referring to this comment I made earlier about the demo release. Getting FP was purely incidental and the "Yay!" was directed at the fact that there was finally news of the Linux release.

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Direct away from face when opening.

Re:FP by Dot.Com.CEO · 2004-09-22 19:41 · Score: 1

Yes, indeed. The mods are idiots for not remembering a comment, modded -1 I might add, a week ago.

--
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.

WARNING! by Aggrazel · 2004-09-23 01:06 · Score: 3, Funny

WARNING! As soon as you touch that nice shiney linux doom3 client, 20 demons are gonna jump out at you and eat you.

You just watch ...

Still waiting... by harrkev · 2004-09-23 02:38 · Score: 3, Funny

I am still waiting to see this:

load "Doom3",8,1 OK

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"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."

Re:Still waiting... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-25 02:36 · Score: 0

I don't get it.
Re:Still waiting... by Kynde · 2004-09-26 02:53 · Score: 1

Loading from the legendary Commodore C64 disk drive was load "something",8,1. From the tape drive it was ,1,1.

That was back in... well for me it was 1984 and onwards.

--
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Re:Still waiting... by FuzzyBad-Mofo · 2004-09-27 13:58 · Score: 1

Loading from the legendary Commodore C64 disk drive was load "something",8,1. From the tape drive it was ,1,1.

To be completely pedantic, the Commodore LOAD command takes parameters in the form:
LOAD [a],[b],[c] Where 'a' is the program name ($ = directory, * = first program/last accessed), 'b' = device number (1 = tape, 8 = first disk drive), and 'c' = code relocation (0 = load to start of BASIC, 1 = use load address in file header). If you leave off all three parameters, it defaults to loading the next program from the tape drive. Today's useless information brought to you by the letters C, B, and M.

too late by AliasTheRoot · 2004-09-23 06:55 · Score: 2, Informative

I woulda cared about it if theyd released it 2 months ago, as it is i played through it on the windows partition i maintain for games and uninstalled it. Well strictly speaking, I uninstalled it halfway through when I found it was boring.

Re:I would buy it just to support for Linux gaming by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-23 19:17 · Score: 0

>if you remember Q3A has no single player.
To be fair, it has a rather dull single player mode.

62 comments