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"Levels" of Computers the Future?
RabidMoose writes "Gamespot has an article up talking about a recent interview with Microsofts's Dean Lester about the future of PC gaming (as well as Xbox 2 tidbits). Basically, they're in contact with the big hardare producers about transitioning to a system of tagging pre-made computers with "levels". He provided a hypothetical example that a PC with a "level 5" designation might have a medium processor speed, amount of RAM, and mid-range video card, while a "level 7" PC might have a faster processor, more RAM, and a higher-end video card."
-erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
How much experience do I need to level up to a Radeon x800?
In the futuire MY PC will go to 11.
level 1 - gets you to the moon level 2 - gets you back level 42 - runs BSD level 65 - runs windows level 66 - runs windows, but crashes are faster level 468 - runs doom 3 with full shadowing (black and white) level 469 - runs doom 3 with full shadowing (color)
They already tried this before... There was the "Multimedia PC" (MPC) spec that had level 1, 2, 3, etc based on whether or not your PC had a CD-ROM, sound card, graphics capable of 800x600 and so on.
This was back in the days of Windows 3.1, even.
In other words, they're trying to bring the "MPC" standards from the early 90's back?
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/MPC.html
Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away. -Rob Malda
Well, by God I want a Level ONE computer. Is not that what all geeks will aspire to? On a serious note, this proposal is going to run into some problems with the definition and quantification of just what is "A computer". For instance, we are not far off from having multiple core CPUs on one chip which gives many software vendors massive headaches. Additionally, the concept of clustering (I favor xGrid myself) shows the problem as well. Are you defining a level designation per task? per installation? per "box"? Honestly this smacks of marketing speak that is designed to sell discrete "game" packages and I am inclined to dismiss it as such unless somebody can more clearly define why this is necessary or why this has applicability beyond the gaming market. I suppose that if you could "quantify" the nature of the task in terms of how much "horsepower" or throughput a given computer system is capable of then one could apply it to something other than a game. But the problem is often not CPU limited unless you are dealing with large calculations which occupy big iron many hours to days to weeks and even when working with games you have the problem of perception. One could establish I suppose a lower limit of 30fps on any given resolution and then that will dictate what level of hardware was needed to maintain that frame-rate, but even then there are going to be other issues.....shading......polygon counts.....ray tracing.....etc....etc....etc.....
At any rate, because people should not let games wash over them like the TV does, they should have to work a little bit at it. Giving them options to tweak is important as it does teach some degree of problem solving and process optimization that for many kids at least is important.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
stu pid.
So a level 5 PC will have a medium processor. What is this, D&D? And what happens next year when last year's "medium" is this year's "suck" chip? This whole thing strikes me as horribly condescending, although perhaps its the logical extension of the Intel/AMD/Cyrix "Performance Rating" stupidity. And if so, does Joe Sixpack DESERVE the condescension, for buying into the crap before? Either way, a static rating system for PC performance is instantly outdated the minute that its implemented. Geesh.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Why don't you just make 10 faster?
I completely agree. And it would be even worse than that.
Let's say that today, right now, the very best PC you can get is a level 10. Then, let's wait a year.
See where I'm going? What'll next year's very best be? A level 11? The system will wind up looking like Spinal Tap's amplifiers.
"No, mate. My PC goes to 11."
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
a $500 computer will have a mid range processor and memory
a $700 computer will be better
a $1500 computer will be better still
It even scales correctly as technologie comes out.
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
If operating systems had levels:
- Windows ME would run under the maximum negative value limit
- Windows XP would probably be 2
- Windows 2000 would probably be 2.5
- Windows Server 2003 would probably be 3
- Linux would probably be a 5
- Mac OS X would probably be a 5.000001 just to piss off Linux people
- *BSD would be a 10
Wouldn't the date be far more informative than anything else? If you have a 3-year old computer, I can probably give you general spec ranges to which it conforms. Whether you say it's a "Level 5" or not, my first response will always be "when was it made?" The only way to counter this would be to keep on going up (today's level 3 is next year's level 13). There are a hundred other reasons why this is a poor idea, but I'll leave them to other posts.
G
It would be easier to designate a computer by a year when it was top of the line. For instance, if I put 'PC1999 compatible' means that it would be compatible with a computer that's 5 years old. A brand new game requiring a P4 3.0 with a gig of ram might be a PC2004+ or something. Most people can figure out what year their computer came from, once it's in general use.
A good example of the different requirements for games is the Sims 2. You need more hardware if you have a non-T&L card, but less if you get a better card. So it's video card dependant.
I hate this direction he is considering. Because I think he's just pushing it so that eventually you'd have Xbox 3 using a rating system on their games. 'Xbox 3 level 5 required' and such. ugh.
Gonzo Granzeau
"Nothing the god of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for.." -Roy Batty
A level 5 computer today will no longer be a level 5 computer in 5 years. Do we just come up with a different numbering system then?
Maybe each system should be ranked by its PERFORMANCE (MIPS), and not some arbitrary numbering system.
I thought Apple did this with the original iMacs and it seemed ridiculous then.
"My Macintosh is grape!"
Great.
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
JERRY: You're doing this yourself?
KRAMER: It's a simple job. Why, you don't think I can?
JERRY: Oh, no. It's not that I don't think you can. I know that you can't, and I'm positive that you won't.
I seem to recall that they already tried this before with the Multimedia PC standard? Wikipeda helped fill in my fuzzy memory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_PC
So that they can price their O/S based on the speed of hardware running it. I used run into vendors trying to do this back in my network management days. I remember asking one of them. "You want me to pay more for your software because I paid more for the hardware I run it on?" and he said "Sure, you will get more use out of our software.". I was still laughing at him as I shoved him out the door.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Aside from the obvious "Level degradation" some people (well, nearly all of the ;) ) already mentioned, don't we have somthing like this already? Minimum specs, recommended specs, and The Newest And Most Expensive Box There Is. Looks like three levels to me...
What a load of bollocks.
Obviously this is marketting crap aimed at the home user, but if they haven't yet worked out that YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, will sticking yet another number help any?
If you are data crunching, you may need a level 5 Hard drive, a level 8 CPU, but a level 3 graphics card. If this is your home entertainment center,, you may be fine with a level 8 HD, level 6 CPU, level 4 graphics. Which machine is "better"? Its too easy to pull the wool over consumer's eyes. I'm sure we could all populate a m/board with heaps of the cheapest RAM available to knock a computer system up a notch or two.
Of course, to run Longhorn, you are looking at level 15, right off the bat, across the board.
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
Fantastic. People barely know what a CD ROM is and now they'll need to know even less
You mean cup holder don't you?
Sounds about as vague as the current terror level colors.
From my read on this, the "level" would be something broadcast from the bios, so as to protect users from trying to run incompatible software on their system and complaining when it doesn't work. Just watch. This means there will be games that refuse to run on your "Level unidentified" system.
Awwright... uh...
Gimmie a Number 2, hold the pickles, extra mayo, onion rings instead of fries. Diet Coke. Make it a biggie.
----
I can hear it now:
"Hey, nice box. Is that a Level 6?"
"Naw, it's a Level 5, but I upgraded the transmatic illudium vector sub processor, so it's about as good as a Level 6."
"No way...... The Level 6 has the super ultra mega dynamo, "
"Oh yeah. I guess it's a really like the level 5.5a, then."
"I suppose so. Say, did you see the new Level 37? Man, that's a sweet computer".
"Yeah, but I'm saving my money for the Level 50 that's due out next month."
Level 5 computer: Athlon 2400+, 512 MB RAM, GeForce FX 5200
Level 3 computer: Athlon 2400+, 512 MB RAM, GeForce FX 5200, WeatherBug, CoolWebSearch
Level 2 computer: Athlon 2400+, 512 MB RAM, GeForce FX 5200, WeatherBug, CoolWebSearch, Bonzi Buddy, ShopAtHomeSelect
Level -1 computer: Athlon 2400+, 512 MB RAM, GeForce FX 5200, WeatherBug, CoolWebSearch, Bonzi Buddy, ShopAtHomeSelect, Claria, Alexa, Sasser, DiallerPlatform, MSBlast
(Sorry, just cleaned someone's Compaq a couple days ago which was of similar specs. Over 400 instances of spyware in Ad-Aware and another 50 or so in Spybot)
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
Just like in EQ, only the most uber hard core elite players who spend gobs of time and money will be able to level their PCs up to level 99 and afford the most l33t equips (case mods).
Brilliant!
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
This idea isn't revolutionary, but I think what could be is saying that Level 8 is a gaming machine with a very precise configuration that manufacturers have to build to, and, say, game developers saying that all of their games will run well on such and such a level. Pretty much the standardization that consoles give us, but on a PC. Never, ever have I had to worry whether an XBox game will run well on my rig. If only I had that luxury on a PC.
Maybe the solution is to have standards by which performance is measured. Someone could write software which evaluates a computer's performance and assigns a numerical value. Then consumers could use that as a guide. We could call it a "bench mark". Then people could get into all sorts of flame wars about these "bench marks", and how they are computed, and which one to use, and so on...
Joe consumer never buys machines with enough RAM- because Dell etc make a big deal about their systems having 4.0 Ghz processors, but in the smaller print, the system comes with something like a paltry 128 Megs of RAM. If the level system implies an acceptable amount of ram, then that's great.
BMWs are numbered based on their body style and engine size (then they add letters for various features); these "level" numbers are, as far as I can tell, arbitrary. Different ideas. BMW's number is closer to how we used to name CPUs... based on a number (engine size or clock speed) that isn't exactly a measure of performance, but close enough to give an approximation.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
they make very little consequential pc hardware (keyboards, mice, discontinued wifi) - where does it matter for what they do?
unless they want to be clear about what the hw reqs are for a given sw package - and with karma to burn, he offered - won't they simply say that all ms bloat^H^H^H^H^Hsoftware needs level n+1 anyway?
or is it just another case of "we're from microsoft - we're here to help"
apple doesn't really do levels except with BTO they say good better best, and it's mostly the things that count, and those mostly in step - ram and hd and ghz and video sorta jump as one... additionally good better best is relative and numbers are absolute - tough to do for long.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
That way, we could match the user level to the level of the computer.
..... Ah, just a thought.....
Level 1 users (dweebs) would only use level one computers (toys).
Level 7 users (gurus) would use level seven computers (supercomputers).
Everybody seems to either be telling D&D jokes or flaming the idea. Keep in mind that most people that use computers are dumb as dirt on the topic. I worked at ChimpUSA in college, and it really opened my eyes. A very common question would involve someone shoving a new game at me and saying, 'I have a dell. Will this run?'.
While several people have pointed out that a L8 video card will not make a L3 system into a L8 system, at least you have a baseline language to work with.
I suspect they want this so software vendors can slap a sticker on a box that says 'Level 8' system required. It's not a perfect system, but it beats having ignorant sales people try to explain video card ram and HD seek times to Ma and Pa Kettle.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
you MUST have a level X computer to run this game!
...
I havent RTFA (seems to be slashdotted or something wrong with ntl (again)) but how does the level system encompass operating system type?
eg: say my linux box qualifies as a "level 7" system and I go down to my local games shop and buy a copy of doom that says "Works On Level 7 Computers & Upwards" should I be getting in touch with trading standards cus it didnt specify Windows XP SP2 ?
Is this a cunning way to remove the operating system meme from consumers minds?
Nick
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
It gives my games that 'extra edge'.
Lv. 6 Dell attacks Lv. 3 HP, dealing 500 damage.
Lv. 3 HP is DEAD!
Dell gains 400 experience.
HP dropped 5 gold.
Dell has gained a level!
RAM: +128MB
Processor: +500mhz
Graphics: +Nvidia 5200FX
Ok, I had to do that. Karma burn ahoy!
"Some fight for law. Some fight for justice. What will you fight for? One day, you will see."
From "This is Spinal Tap"
: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and... : Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten? : Exactly. : Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder? : Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where? : I don't know. : Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do? : Put it up to eleven. : [Pause] These go to eleven.
Nigel Tufnel
Marty DiBergi
Nigel Tufnel
Marty DiBergi
Nigel Tufnel
Marty DiBergi
Nigel Tufnel
Marty DiBergi
Nigel Tufnel : Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
Marty DiBergi : Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
Nigel Tufnel
I have a level 5 Athlon with a +2 video card of OpenGL and a +1 bank of memory. Unfortunately, I went to eBay and got saddled with a -3 sound card of Aureal.
Time to play Doom 3. Roll 1d20.
So, uh, where do I buy a Hard Drive of Infinite Speed +5?
-g.
Level 9: XP on a P4 3.2GHz, internet, SP2, behind Checkpoint firewall
. . .
Level 5: Win2K on a P4 1.7GHz, internet, SP4, no firewall
. . .
Level 1: Win95 on a Pentium I, internet connection, no patches, no firewall
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Interview with M$
Q: What do you think is the future gaming PC?
A: Level 1000 PC with virtual harddisk and super 3D engine. With games controlled with my nose.
Interview with ATI and Nvidia
Q: What do you think is the future gaming PC?
A: I hope our drivers work.
What happens to your text? That's right, the copy command basically ends up deleting your text (actually replaced with an unintended symbol) with no copy being made. Your work is gone with no backup.
If you are smart enough to use the keys, you are also able to figure out that it's "Apple-C" instead fairly quickly.
For users that are really simple, it will be very easy - because they'll just use the menu options which are under edit like they always are.
The "just works" part I would say refers more to things like the OS not surprizing you unpleasantly, or devices working without hassle (like bluetooth or wireless networking). Not so much about training for an app.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Mine goes to 11.
Sorry, am I too late?
Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
The PC industry is about making the fastest machines at the lowest dollars. Personally I wish somebody would do a little design at the expense of speed, but that is another story.
Getting back to the levels. This is an attempt to qualtify what you are doing, then sell you a computer that fits. --The problem is that they all fit for almost everybody.
If Microsoft can get folks to buy into the level system, they can then certify hardware as being level 3 compliant, or some other such thing. Each year, they will put out little charts and graphs that equate their current bloat to the level guides. Hardware makers will get something new to talk about.
Most of us will get screwed because the level system will hide the actual specs and reduce the average persons awareness of what they are buying. They want to dumb this down because uninformed people more easily part with their money.
The current status quo looks bad for everyone really. Good hardware can be had for about $300. Legal software for that machine can easily triple that. More people are learning this lesson so something has to change to keep the dollars flowing.
Almost nobody in the industry wants people making their own PC's. The way things are right now, you can buy "made for windows" hardware, throw it into a cool case and you are good to go. (Of course, you should be running Linux, but that too is another story.) Specs are specs. People see a bundle and can shop around pretty easily.
Now lets talk about a Level 3 computer? What's inside? How does it compare to my P4 2Ghz.... ? Will hardware makers sell Level 3 kits? What if people want to choose different vendors?
It's all about the bundle. Microsoft has made their fortune bundling things together in ways that encourage people to buy. This bundling of hardware and terminology will simply allow them to better leverage their already strong dominant position in the hardware end of things.
It will be at our expense. (It always is.) Bundles limit choice. Where there is limited choice, people pay more.
No thanks, people are learning now. Might as well just let them continue to get smarter so they can make their own choices.
I do give Microsoft credit though. --It's a good move. Creative. Hope most folks know better.
Blogging because I can...
...this sort of thing wouldn't be an issue. Who established the shortcuts of +X, C, V for Cut, Copy, Paste? Apple! Likewise nearly every common shortcut. The fact that on 'doze they decided to use a DIFFERENT modifier should not be a problem now laid at Apple's feet - M$ shoulda copied it more thoroughly!
The problem is just as bad going he other way, from Mac to Win - I keep trying to paste and getting a bloody menu popping down.
Another thing that really bugs me on Windows is typing accented characters - on the Mac most of these work in a moderately intuitive way once you've seen it once - you can nearly always guess the right key combo based on what you want to appear (i.e. option e + e gives you é, option u + u gives you ü). On 'doze you have to either learn very arcane character codes or else use the severely broken character palette - which, when you cut/paste from it also forces a new FONT and COLOUR on the text you paste - like I just wanted a character, I already formatted that text you stupid !@#$%!!!
Uber Level 2001...
When all is said and done, nothing changes...