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Apple Releases Logic 7, New Jam Packs
RadRafe writes "Apple today introduced Logic Pro 7 and Logic Express 7. Logic Pro now features Distributed Audio, a clustering tool (Xgrid-based?) to exploit the DSP power of multiple Macs, and Sculpture, the long-awaited component-modeling synthesizer. Also out today are two new Jam Packs for GarageBand - though they work in Logic too, now that Logic supports Apple Loops."
With "grid-everything" becoming the latest buzz, hardware manufacturers must be salivating every time a new distributed processing program is released.
-Randy
is what the cool kids are running thesedays, that full VST experience (gotta love vst plugins), from Steiberg of course
Clicky
It will be interesting to see how MOTU is going to respond with DP5 ;-)
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
its Macs not MACs. And I know my old school (NCSU) is doing stuff with Xgrid. I heard they were trying to get a cluster of all the Macs on campus.
And yet schools still have MACs.
Everyone with an Ethernet card has a MAC.
Perhaps you were thinking of "Macintosh", commonly abbreviated "Mac"?
Troll. Midi labs, which Macs are used in, are never free. I see at my local community college the labs are constantly packed. When would they have time to do SETI or Folding???
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
I'm honestly kind of pissed about the bug fixes thing. I bought the top-of-the-line version of Logic when 6 came out. Shortly afterward suddenly they redid the pricing structures so there's no longer a Platinum, just a Pro and an Express. A year later I find that they're issuing updates to Pro 6 that they aren't issuing to Platinum 6, even though on would expect these to be the same product. Meanwhile despite them being introduced not long after Logic 6 I still can't use Cocoa-view AudioUnits, a basic feature which you'd think Apple would support in their own software and a feature which I need. Now that 7 is out I can pretty much be guaranteed that Cocoa-view audiounits are not coming to Platinum 6, no?
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
I am a MOTU user myself, but the idea of bundling the soft synth's with the DAW software is intriging.
I can see the value added with the bundling, but you would think customers would want to pick and choose their soft synths. I mean, does everyone want a B3 or a PPG or whatever emulator?
The UI looks quite complicated. I imagine that means there is a lot flexibility at your fingertips. I wonder, though, at the wisdom of making computer user interfaces attempt to mimick the traditional analog interfaces. Knobs that you turn, for example, are pretty stupid, yet the screenshots for Logic Pro show loads of such controls. With a wheel mouse i suppose turning the knobs is easy, but apple has only one button from the factory. Will this UI make it in the User Interface Hall of Shame?
Does anybody know why Logic has to be this complicated to use? From the top of my head:
- A second menu bar? Why? It is unintuitive, defeats Fitt's Law and is just plain awkward.
- Init files: to have a standard way of organizing, you have to save a project in a certain way with a certain name to a certain folder which I always forget. Apple's GUI guide simply states "after an app starts up, make it appear like when you left it"
- Often times, Logic doesn't redraw correctly.
- Icons vary widely in quality: Some are Aqua-esque, other's are 8bit-like, and even others are pure b/w... ?!
- Hundreds of icons that do not line up, or overlap each other... looks sloppy
- Sometimes bouncing works, sometimes it does nothing
- Timestreching crashes Logic from time to time
These errors are all present in the (until now) most recent version of Logic. Emagic is aware of these problems: They have a buglist feature that all registered users get access to (I wonder why others don't... let me guess: because it might hold them off from buying it?).
Anyway, my point is: Now Apple owns Logic, and this app still does not behave in the way Apple asks apps to behave... it's just silly...
Anybody know why after all these years, Logic is still extremely unlogical (don't let me go into details about *these* things), yet they don't care?
You can *do* drums in it but it's clumsy and a lot of work. Even though FruityLoops is such a built-for-dummies program, there unfortunately isn't anything for the macintosh that's really comparable to FruityLoops. :(
GarageBand isn't bundled with OS X.
It's bundled with the iLife suite of applications...
As below, so above and beyond, I imagine drawn beyond the lines of reason. Push the envelope. Watch it bend.
I prefer Froot Loops. They also taste lemon, grape, orange, etc. instead of just apple.
GarageBand is not included in Mac OS X.. GarageBand is included in the iLife package, and if you buy both Mac OS X and iLife at the same time you it will cost $50 less than if you buy them separately.
... for now. You can buy them both at the same time and get a $50 rebate, but iLife 04 is not PART of OSX.
I do like that the nodes are unlimited license wise. However I am concerned about the actual use in a real production environment.
Shawn's Tech Articles
Apple already has a product out called Soundtrack which was meant to be their professional music creation/editing software package. Are they discontinuing it and replacing it with Logic?
Notice how they advertised infinite loops as a feature. Seems like they're copying Microsoft advert strategies now...
read the bunni comic
But you're thinking of apples, while he's thinking of apples. Better get on the same page. I could go for a macintosh right about now, no worms please!
"Only 192kHz?"
This is not mp3 bit rates here. This is Pro Audio level sound quality.
An Audio CD has a sample rate of 44.1kHz.
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein
Thanks a lot by the way..now I probably can't keep moderating this quite interesting thread ;-)
"You know you don't act like a scientist, you're more like a game show host." Dana Barret
Mod this down.
/dale
There is no such thing as a "Altivextreme" card. Dual 2.5Ghz G5s even with 4GB of ram do not cost $12,000. Someone who does use Logic doesn't refer to their stuff as a "music file". There is no DMA enable/disable in MacOS, and it is enabled by default. And running Logic on a G3 iMac... what did you expect??
This is just a AC posting negative drivel out his bum for whatever reason.
wtf are you talking about. This is total FUD.
->G5 2.5GHz x 2 w/ 4GB RAM != $12,000
->no such thing as Altivextreme PCI-X card
->MagicMaestro for DOS does not exist
->You say your G5 is slow, then compare to the G3 iMac and say it was slow, so therefore it must be slow! your G3 iMac is slow at everything - hello?
I smell TROLL BS...
-- As soon as I have an interesting sig, you'll be among the first to know!
I wish I waited another couple of months before splashing for the Gold > Pro upgrade. Now I have to pay up the same amount if I want the spiffy new Guitar Amp. ;-)
But hey, that's the name of the game I suppose. I hope there's some cheapo upgrade for suckers like me
After recording a cd this week on an an ancient 5 year old mac running pro-tools under Mac OS 9 I can say this much : Logic really is a bargain at the price it's selling at (full AND upgrades) if you see what it offers (features and performance) on the latest PowerBooks and PowerMacs.
But kudos for mac os 9 and pro-tools because the engineer really squeezed every little drop out of his investement (mac + protools + digidesign hardware)
blaah !
192kHz, though... seems a bit... nay, completely out to lunch. Oh, wait. With 192kHz, you should be able to record the (60kHz) WWVB radio signal along with your audio, so you don't need to time stamp your files. I'm sure everybody can appreciate the benefits there.... ;-)
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
- Macintosh
- Media Access Control
- Media Access Controler
- Mandatory Access Control
- Multiplexed Analogue Components
- Message Authentication Code
- Message Authenticity Check
- Multiplier Accumulator Chip
Get's confusing after a while, especially those of us in Info Assurance.With the first link, the chain is forged.
While I doubt your market research, and your ability to recognize that OS X sells separately from iLife, I understand the source of your confusion.
iLife is bundled with new Apple hardware, so you get a copy when you buy a new iBook, iMac, PowerMac, etc.
Now, maybe you won't use GarageBand, but I'm going to guess that 99.999999% of OS users have some interest in one of iPhoto, iMovie, or iDVD. Ok, mainly iPhoto. But do you really think Apple would be able to drop the price of their machines by much if they excluded a single program that costs less than $50 ?? Why am I answering this troll?
Really, GarageBand is there for semiserious users of iMovie and iDVD- so you can put together a little tune for your home movie project. It's totally useful and doesn't affect the price of the overall package much at all.
Only slightly mistaken; it's 44.1 kHz. The difference is often overlooked. Overall, though, you're exactly correct, in that the difference is a matter of kHz sampling as opposed to kbps bitrate.
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
Apple's marketing research showed that 50% of households had at least one amateur musician in them. Someone who practiced with at least one instrument.
Considering that it is a minimal cost to bundle it with the computer (which is all that they do, not with the OS), why not throw it in as an added nicety for those who might use it?
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
GarageBand is not really a midi sequencer. More of an audio arranger, looper and basic multitracker.
And, of course, there are the experiments done by (IIRC) Pioneer with a cobbled-up double speed DAT machine in which samples of Harmon-muted trumpet, which has significant harmonic content past 20-30 kHz, were played by for test listeners. EEG's indicated that the brain activity differed between recordings bandlimited to 20 kHz and recordings which contained the higher frequency content. None of the listeners could hear the difference, but they appeared to respond to it nonetheless.
What the underlying cause and effect were, I don't know.
Personally, I'd feel pretty confident that a 24/96 medium, with relatively sharp Nyquist filters, would qualify as being completely transparent compared to the rest of the signal chain. There certainly aren't going to be many mike/preamp combinations exceeding 120 dB s/n!
I suspect that the use of a 192 kHz sample rate allows for both extended bandwidth past the conventionally accepted limits of human hearing, and for shallower, gentler Nyquist filtering. The sampling's certainly cheap enough now, unlike 1983 when most CD players used 14-bit D/A converters!
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
No it's not. iLife is bundled with new Macs.
So, for example: when I bought my Aluminum Powerbook, it came with the then-current iLife and Mac OS 10.2 (Jaguar). When I purchased the upgrade to 10.3 (Panther), iLife wasn't included.
Right and that's called a sequencer.
To expand on this for people who are missing the distinction: mp3 rates are bit rates, meaning that the audio stream is reduced to a certain number of bits per second. The sample rates for digital pro audio equipment refer to how many samples (of varying width, usually 16 or 24) are taken represent the analog audio stream.
;)
So, one can see intuitively that a stereo 24-bit 192Khz audio file will be 24 times larger than a stereo mp3 file that is 192kpbs. The difference in clarity will be almost as striking as the size difference.
Free yourself. Everything else will follow.
I recorded an album on my iBook with a TASCAM US-122, and found that Apple's loops just aren't good enough. They sound clear, but they're just not that interesting. So, I got M-Audio's These Drums Are Loud, and it really added a lot to my drum section (I don't have the space for a drum kit). Anyway, that's just a tip. I'd avoid the new Jam Packs without a lot of reviews and maybe some sample clips. Of course, if you want more than drums, that's another story.
Yeah, but how long does it take you to make a copy of a 22MB Photoshop file? That's what I really want to know. I bet it takes forever.
:-P
Free yourself. Everything else will follow.
I was a Logic fan before they abandoned PC users and VST. Now I'm very happy with Cubase SL 2.X. I in fact like the way Cubase works better than I ever liked Logic. For instance, it has such amazingly fancy things as *gasp* right click context menus.
All previous versions were referred to as Emagic Logic.
Today the existing Emagic web site essentially went away (although there is some new information there).
Emagic is a German company and Apple bought it two years ago and stopped its development of Windows products.
So this release of Logic 7 represents the culmination of a huge realignment of music and audio software on the Mac platform, with profound implications for the market and third-party companies that make competing and complimentary products.
its _possible_ but you don't want to do it. (it'll sound crappy. Its of similar dificulty to automatically taking 2d images and making 3 models from them..)
I've been using Logic since version 2, and I have watched it evolve from a do-everything MIDI sequencer to a full-fledged DAW suite.
I'm frustrated to read so many negative comments from people who have obviously never used serious music software before, so I'm going to address a few things:
First, this is very relevant to apple.slashdot.org because Apple owns Logic, and a lot of us have been very eager to see just what Apple was going to do with Logic for version 7.
Is it anything like Fruity Loops or Garage Band? No, not really. You could probably pick up any of the above to create a piece of dance music, but Logic is the only one of the three that is wide open - if there's something a computer can do with audio, Logic Pro can probably do it.
I doubt Cubase is more popular than Logic in the studio. Once you get used to working in Logic, Cubase feels like a toy. I'll admit I haven't used it in a few years so maybe it has improved.
Somebody posted that Logic is unstable and doesn't draw right a lot of the time, but this has not been my experience - in fact version 6 has been rock-solid for me. I know that cracked copies of Logic tend to not work very well.
A few people have said that there aren't a lot of new featured, but I downloaded the Logic Overview PDF from the Apple site, and I see TONS of stuff:
The Mega-Plugin packs are pretty interesting, but if nothing else (I hate using computers for music) it demonstrates just how fun it is to write software to do specific things, when things are set up for you, and you need only focus on finite things.
.. so I'm not *so* nervy about all the Logic features.
...
Synth plugin developers are starting to become a dime a dozen, just like PHP monkeys and C junkies in the 90's and 80's
Be interesting to see where Apple take the hardware side of this 'synthesizer' train they're on, and somehow own, now
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
What I want to know is, whatever happened to competitive upgrades? Apple seems to have killed this offering, which otherwise may have encouraged me to try the pro version. No way I'm even going to glance at it for $1000, given my investment in Cubase... - Fromage
Is this kind of like Fruity-Loops by FL Studio?
Not at all. FruityLoops is a click-the-dots looping sequencer program. Its professional counterparts are Project 5, Reason, Digital Performer, etc.
Logic competes with Pro Tools, Cubase, Sonar, SawStudio, etc.
Usually, we never ever get DAW release news on Slashdot. Why now? Is it because this is Apple?
In that case, you also need to report that Steinberg Cubase SX 3 and Cakewalk Sonar 4 were both release this month.
Logic Pro 6 has only been out for about 6 months (in Australia). Now they're hitting us with a whole new version already.
I have seriously been living in poverty from buying Logic Pro 6. The upgrade to version 7 is another AU$500.
Grr!
You are not completely correct. GB is part of iLife which is sold as a standalone product for $49. It is also bundled with new Apple computers - every model. So, technically, if Apple didn't bundle iLife with a new computer, the price could drop by $49.
Big f***ing whoop-de-doo.
I'd rather have my iLife than my $49.
The original poster is a troll.
Broadcast Wave is actually becoming the standard audio file format for the film industry. It is used in most of the new digital field recorders (Aaton Cantar, HHB PortaDrive, Zaxcom Deva and the various Fostex field recorders.
The support of this format in Logic is significant as it's the first Apple software to support it. Hopefully this means will see it soon in Final Cut soon.
-- It only takes 20 minutes for a liberal to become a conservative thanks to our new outpatient surgical procedure!
Check out the system requirements for Logic Express:
Macintosh computer with a PowerPC G4 or faster processor (G5 or dual G4
processors recommended)
512MB of RAM
Mac OS X v10.3 or later
4GB of available hard disk space
DVD drive for software installation
Low-latency multi-I/O audio hardware and MIDI interface recommended
Separate hard drive recommended for high-resolution audio tracks
Notice anything missing? No more XSKey dongles!! Woohoo for Apple respecting the limited available ports on powerbooks! Unfortunately, Pro still requires one. Still, that and the ability to import Garageband projects are enought to warrant a purchase - I can't stand software that punishes paying users.
Sound waves should be free!
See, that just proves how cool it is. :-)
Max/MSP is a very cool graphic data flow programming language for... well, anything really, but focused on MIDI and DSP. There is also an add-on program called Jitter that specializes in video manipulation.
Max originally came from IRCAM in the 1990s. It is currently shepherded by Cycling74
I dabbled around a bit and only found CuBase to be a real all-in-one. Is sonar by cakewalk on the same level?
-I am an elective eunuch.
Uh yeah, and you conveniently dropped four little letters this time around.
Does every single program need to be useful to every single user to be included? How does it hurt your poor sainted grandmother if Apple has included an application she'll never use?
On the other hand, this would be a lot of fun for the kids on a family computer, and would be at least a little bit of compensation for the Mac not being the greatest game machine. And it's probably "healthier" (whatever that means) for kids to slap together loops and call it music than to attack hookers with chainsaws and steal automobiles.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Mostly trolls or flamebait... a few people who suggest sx3, reason or Live are better...
I am surprised to be the only one asking about:
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Cubase does NOT have this kind of distributed processing. If you're referring to VStack, you still need audio cards on your 'other' machines; this doesnt appear to; all routing is via ethernet.
The nearest competing technology is FXTeleport, which is host-independent (its a VST plugin)
free experimental electronic music netlabel at www.viablehybrid.com
It IS a midi sequencer. I give up. I hate trying to talk to non-musicians.
So don't buy it. What's the problem?
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
192k is about equivalent to 2" analog tape, IIRC. As in, really really good. I want this.
I haven't used this, but I feel pretty confident in saying it kicks Fruity Loops's ass.
Still, $999 for just software when you can get Pro Tools + the mBox interface for 3 or 4 hundred? Not worth it, IMO. Targeted towards the pros, I guess.
c-hack.com |
Just so you know, my masters was about developing such a system for LADSPA: http://gsd.ime.usp.br/~lago/masters. The research and the beta-level, proof-of-concept implementation were concluded in April.
And DLADSPA, as in "distributed ladspa" (written by yours truly): http://gsd.ime.usp.br/~lago/masters.
I wasn't belittling anything. Some people here are just oversensitive and too worried about their own preferences and agenda's.
I made light of it because the notion is amusing to me, that doesn't mean I don't realize that it is a quality product.
I would honestly probably use it in the games I am working on to avoid having to get an entire crew of people together to play each instrument etc.
But at the time the irony of machines making art was more prominent in my mind.
I guess we all don't realize that a name like 'Apple Loops' was probably intended to be amusing...
Just calm down and grow up folks
Word on the street is that the guitar amp was developed by Emagic after they were acquired by Apple.