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House Passes Another Spyware Bill
SkippyTPE writes "The AP reports that the US House of Representatives has unanimously passed a law criminalizing Spyware. This is the second such bill in two days (the first imposing civil penalties, whereas this bill imposes criminal penalties). Information on the bills (HR2929 and HR4661) can be found here and here respectively."
Let's think about these laws before we cheer - say to yourself will the world be a better place with yet another law. I applaud the efforts of the government protecting the people but marketing comes has to come from somewhere; like Nielsen rating system by which advertisers use to by spots on TV, somewhere there has to be a way to understand what works on the internet. The law bill clearly states that installing tracking devices on someone else computer will be punishable by imprisonment - you will no longer to be able to track logins via cookies or be running a risk from court interpretations of the law.
As for the second part of the law, phishing:
Zoe Lofgren D-Calif. - cited estimates that up to 90 percent of computers contain some forms of spyware. Lofgren said her daughter was recently victimized by electronic thieves in a phishing scam
It is good thing that 10% of the market is either running an alternative browser and/or operating system preventing those infections. But being victimized via email I tend to say that email isn't secure therefore nothing in email can be trusted - thus let the buyer (user) beware. Over the long haul, Darwinism will balance things out and the law will be just a hoop and dance show for elections.
evil empire...
I know I'm going to be modded up on this
Spyware will just move offshore. More governmental bullshit.
It would add penalties of up to five years in prison for people convicted of installing such programs without a computer user's permission.
If this is really the case, this law isn't going to do a damn thing--all it means is that spyware developers will need to put a sufficiently dense bunch of legalease on page eight of the EULA. (It was noted somewhere--NPR, I think--that the typical EULA is measurably longer than the Constitution of the United States...)
"From time to time, Awesomeness2004!!! Pro may gather usage statistics and other information and transmit this information to the ShadyCorp central server."
"By clicking 'I Agree', you grant ShadyCorp permission to install Awesomeness2004!!! Pro. To take advantage of certain advanced features, Awesomeness 2004!!! Pro requires SnifferExeDllBuddy. SnifferExeDllBuddy may track and report usage statistics and other information."
"ShadyCorps is concerned about your privacy. Your personal information will only be made available to ShadyCorp and approved ShadyCorp partners."
Forget teeth--this law'll be lucky if it can manage to gum hungrily at the bastards' ankles. How about a law that renders post-POS EULAs null and void?
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Spyware installs surreptitiously and degrades you performance.
What spyware outfit do you work for?
Is there a good HOWTO on cleaning up a Windoze box from spyware and keeping it clean? I use the following method:
Install Ad-aware, update, clean, reboot, clean
Install Spybot S&D, update, clean, reboot, clean
Install Spywareblaster, update, enable protection
This method has worked pretty well in the past. In the last couple days, I've gotten infected by some browser hijackers and no amount of cleaning and resetting things will delete the %$#@$$#%ers. Is there a better method?
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
Well, I really would like to see the death penalty brought in as punishment for spammers and distributors of viruses and spyware, but I also think that the expansion of law in this area has the potential for being over-broad and being abused. We need to take a long hard look at these solutions and decide whether we want to let the government try and take care of this, or let industry try to weed it out.
The government can't enforce a large portion of the laws it already has enacted. So they sit there helping no one, all the while they are waiting to be used in ways they were never designed for. I'm just real uncomfortable with it.
How about we educate users on good internet habits, and let the industry develop better ways to eliminate spyware.
No, the AP correctly reported that the house passed a BILL. A BILL is not a LAW until it passes through the entire congress and the president signs it. (Remember the Schoolhouse Rock song, "I'm just a Bill"?)
John
What about Microsoft?? What about Real.com, and all these others that require you to license their wares, and these wares send user metadata back to the mother ship! what about all this???
I bet because of all the Micro$oft(tm) money(tm) floating round in Washington, this will never ever get addressed!!!
Yup. Another pointless law just to fill lawmakers time up before holiday.
All content in this message is copyright (c) 2008. All rights reserved. RIAA is prohibited here.
"...has unanimously passed a law..."
How come they never pass any laws posthumously?
Which means, by inference, that you can spam as many ads as you want onto a victim box, provided they are able to close each of the ads by clicking on them. Note that this does not prevent an infinite number of closable ads, just as an infinite number of copyright extension laws is still not infinite copyright.
Note also -and this is important- that they've made no distinction between a program which resides on the box (actual intrusion) and Javascript. This means that Last Measure and other browser shock sites are illegal. Think about it.
If guns kill people, then CmdrTaco's keyboard misspells words.
With all the articles I've read recently, I'm thinking we are going about this all wrong. While I don't disagree with making this illegal, I believe the laws will be near impossible to enforce and overlook those ultimately responsible.
M$ makes Internet Explorer and Windows to be inherently insecure making spyware and viruses possible. I nearly choked when I saw that M$ may be getting into the antivirus business. If they wanted to do that, all they'd have to do is make their product more secure. About the only reason there is an antivirus and anti-spyware market and a spyware law is because M$ makes them possible.
No, I'm not a karma whore. I'm just stating what I believe.
But why is the rum gone?
Does this mean that the software that the FBI uses to track email in an effort "to fight terrorism" falls under the "spyware" law?
~G
If this becomes law, and a piece of spyware is found to be illegal, who exactly goes to jail? The programmers who wrote it? The stockholders of the company that paid the programmers to write it? The owners of the web site from which a user unwittingly downloaded and installed it? Suppose I determine that I got a piece of spyware from IP address X... is the ISP on the hook for criminal charges too?
Give Congress credit for trying, but I don't see you can realistically make installing spyware a jailable offense.
90%, huh? That seems awfully high. People always say 90% of computers are running Windows, too. No, wait -- you don't think those figures could be related, do you?
And I thought the CAN-SPAM Act was supposed to fix all of these email forgery problems.
It's a good thing Congress is on top of it. At least they are when it affects their kids.
sigs, as if you care.
Seriously, I'm all for anti spyware and anti scam measures, but is this really going to address the core issue? That is, people aren't educated enough to NOT fall for scams? And if they AREN'T educated enough to not fall for it in the first place, what good will the law do?
:D ) is long gone. Incidentally those people who would be fooled by spyware are more than likely those who wouldn't know how to deal with it in the first place (spybot, adaware, or cleaning the system registry manually).
A current example may be those "multi level marketing schemes" like Vector or Pre paid legal (they are really just pyramids in disguise). We've got laws against pyramid schemes, and yet these companies are still around (they call themselves multi level marketing in most cases, just to avoid the legal hassels). The people who actually get caught up in the schemes are those who are a) to stupid or b) to greedy to not realize what's going on; and by the time the person has found out that they have been duped, the perp (I've been watching law and order
And then there's the question of how many people will actually actively pursue a lawsuit against spyware companies. I'm willing to bet that most people will say, "spyware is against the law, the companies can't do that and if they install it on my computer I'll write a nasty letter to them" instead of "spyware? time to sue". Almost like what's going on with spam..
Does this mean that having a software application that automatically updates itself with a newer version that has bugs that compromise the security of the computer and all information within can now be considered a criminal offence for the software developer ?
Because if not, every worm writing script kiddie is probably crapping a load right now. The law goes into effect today. If your worm infects someone tomorrow, even if you wrote it years ago, you're hosed.
I hope.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
If you can get even a few convictions, then it's not useless. Besides which, unlike with most viruses it's actually possible to track down spyware makers and users, because there's almost always a profit motive, and you can follow the money. It's not easy, of course, especially with the transnational issues, but its possible.
And what's the other option? Some spyware is basically uncleanable (especially the nastier CWS variants), and while it's fun to blame Microsoft it doesn't really help.
Whew!! Now no more Spyware!!!
:-)
Taken care of just like they did when they made SPAM illegal!!
I was glad to get rid of that...
er..
desiv
Dissection:
- say to yourself will the world be a better place with yet another law
- like Nielsen rating system by which advertisers use to by spots on TV, somewhere there has to be a way to understand what works on the internet.
- The law bill
- installing tracking devices on someone else computer will be punishable by imprisonment - you will no longer to be able to track logins via cookies
/. knows the semantic difference between a cookie and spyware. It's absurd to compare the two, particularly when you're claiming that the difference would somehow be overlooked in court with any lawyer worth the paper their bar scores are printed on. - It is good thing that 10% of the market is either running an alternative browser and/or operating system preventing those infections. But being victimized via email I tend to say that email isn't secure therefore nothing in email can be trusted - thus let the buyer (user) beware. Over the long haul, Darwinism will balance things out and the law will be just a hoop and dance show for elections.
Build complete sentences, proofread your work, and don't try to sound brighter than you actually are. These laws are a fine thing. It's easy for anyone to look at anything the government does and go "Oh Noooo!" and think they sound wise.Are you saying that we should add no more laws, simply because we have too many, regardless of that law's merits?
Someone else covered this already, but Nielsen pays you, in an arrangement made in the clear and with your permission, and you're damn well aware that you're helping them with their marketing data. They don't take over your TV while you think you're just installing TiVo, and they don't make your TV work less efficiently or steal your credit card numbers. This is a dumb, dumb analogy you have made here.
Are we an ESL student?
Even the lowliest n00b on
I would like to point out that each of these sentences has nothing to do with the sentence previous to it, that none of the three is particularly relevant, and that you are clearly way over your head. You successfully pointed out the fact that email can't be trusted - a statement implicit in the fact that a law was just passed addressing criminal activity perpetrated with email as its medium.
Then you point out that Darwinism balances things out. Have you had children? If so, your statement is invalid. I don't see how these laws, passed essentially unanimously, are going to be a "hoop and dance show" for either party. Would you like to illuminate us on that aspect of your glorious deconstruction?
Marketing should come without illicit invasions of privacy, hijacking of personal resources, and the aggravation of an often-painstaking removal process. If it has to "come from somewhere", as you stated, it should come from a place that has some moral and ethical footing. By your argument, I could break into your cardboard box and check out what brand of cheap wine you buy, if it allowed me to market cheap wine to you more effectively. Removing the ethical aspect, as you implicitly did (whether or not you meant to) is foolish.
"Will the world be a better place with yet another law?" (I added the question mark for you - I think you might have forgotten it.) Yeah, it'll be a better place with this law. By the time you'd typed those words, everyone who read the article had already thought about it, and most had come to the conclusion "yes, it will." I can think of a ton of laws that would make the world a better place. "Yet another law" is a dumb, dumb way to look at things, on a number of levels.
You should stick to topics you (a) understand and (b) have something interesting to say about.
one republican member from texas opposed it on the grounds that any govenment control of the internet is wrong check this article
:)
The fellow's name is Ron Paul. He has an interesting position. Though they may not agree with apyware, i think it is a position that i think many here would agree with.
Maybe we should interview him on this site.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
The Problem is that, this law is really unenforcable. Atleast, not to the point where it is financially practical. The only way to stop it is either to build better programs, or not to go to sites where this stuff begins. I am a lucky one, I DONT (as in not 1 piece) get SPAM. I dont go to these sites and I stay clean. People always forget, the internet is just like the hooker from Thailand. They are both dirty and before you use them you need protection.
If I wanted water, I'd ask for DiHydrogen Oxide!
Ron Paul (L-Texas) voted for this bill but he was the lone dissenter in the last spyware bill. It would be interesting to find out what was different about this bill (or what poison pill was in the last one).
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
the spyware is still being created by or contracted for american citizens. doesnt matter if they operate their scams offshore. they're still under US jurisdiction.
Definetly, DEFINETLY try all of the above mentioned things first and as directed AND THEN if you *STILL* can't get it off (and are sick of my all caps), THEN:
:)
1)Select one of the following spyware removal discussion boards
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/
http://forums.spywareinfo.com/
http://forums.net-integration.net/
http://www.computercops.biz/forums.html
2)READ THEIR FAQS THOUROUGHLY
3)Create an account and post your story along with supporting documents outlined in their FAQ to their board.
4)Wait patiently and a real life antiscumware security expert will help you.
The people on those forums hate scumware more then anyone and devote their spare time to helping rid the world of it. They have created custom tools to remove almost all kinds of spyware and with your help will diagnose your particular infection and send you the proper tools to get rid of it.
These guys are the best so treat them with respect: do your own spyware scans before you bother them. But I think in your case you are qualified to talk to them now
Good luck!
...unfortunately no one can be told what The Mat^H^H^HGoatse is...they must experience it for themselves...
I think we now have so many laws that the respect has been watered down.
While I don't necessarily share your views on some of the items you mentioned, I certainly agree with you on the statement I quoted.
The other night, a friend was over at our house, and I asked if she wanted a copy of any of our DVDs. She looked at me, and asked "Is that... legal?"
My first thought was "Who cares?" My second thought was "Wow, she must worry about a LOT of little things." (She is, actually, a diagnosed germophobe.) Over the next couple of days, though, I started thinking more and more about just how many laws I routinely break. I've copied copywrited material. Sometimes at 3 a.m., I don't wait for the light to change. I speed quite regularly. I've used paint cans for things other than their intended use (no, I wasn't huffing with them.) I've taken a narcotic pain pill for something OTHER than which it was prescribed to me. Shoot, there have even been some times when I took a medication that had been prescribed to someone else.
After thinking about those and other things, I realized that not only have I committed quite a good number of crimes in my life, I've committed a good number of felonies. It made me feel kind of funny. I've never thought of myself as a criminal, much less a felon. Maybe I need a black leather jacket or something.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
Clearly, something must be done. This bill is not the answer, but at least they are looking at the problem. I would be surprised if the congess folk are not getting messages from irrate constituents complaining about spyware.
From the Yahoo article:
"People are increasingly finding their home pages have been changed or their computers are sluggish," she said. "Their computers are no longer their own, and they can't figure out why."
Yes, whatever became of the idea that it is my machine, not some marketing cash cow. The EULA should enumerate and describe in no uncertain terms what will be installled, what it will do, and how it will do it. The end user should need to okey each program, not the whole shooting match. If something is going to run on startup in the background, this should be stated and explained. There should be an easy way to stop the process. There should be a simple way to uninstall the evil program and all of its minions in the registry etcetera. Browser hijacking? Just plain illegal. If caught, death is too good for you. This is for starters.
Now explain this:
H.R.2929:
Makes it unlawful for any person who is not the owner or authorized user (user) of a protected computer (a computer exclusively for the use of a financial institution or the U.S. Government, or a computer used in interstate or foreign commerce or communication).........
It is home computers that need the most help in the fight against spyware, not corpoate, bank, and government computers, and unless I am reading this wrongly, home computers are given no protection under the bill. Why is that?
Then there was this quote which I just found amusing:
The chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee, Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, said Goodlatte's anti-spyware bill was preferable because of its criminal sanctions, and Barton said he will work to combine both proposals for a final vote by year's end.Barton acknowledged that experts had recently found more than 60 varieties of spyware installed on the panel's own computers. He said all the spyware programs had been installed without the permission of computer users.
There's two reasons.
1. The bill may turn out to be a bad law in practice. (The 'patriot' act has an expiration date. Some of the proponents haggled over just how long the law should apply, and picked a time when we should have had opportunity to cool down a bit and think about it.).
2. If it's a pretty good law, congress will still have to renew it when the time comes. It's easier to tweak the law in the new version with automatic expiration. If it's a good law with a few flaws, it's going to have to be re-examined automatically anyway.
Who is John Cabal?
While I don't disagree with this, I also thing this is nothing more than a bandaid. The seive that is Internet Explorer is what makes most of this possible. IE gets hijacked and tons of spyway/virus type crap gets installed. I have been banning the use of it at work, but there are some users I just cannot prevent from using it. (my CFO refuses to stop using it?!?!?!?!) When companies are caught doing illegal things, they fine the companies till that *fix* the problem. Well, it's been almost 10 years, and IE has gotten worse not better. The more Microsoft embeds IE into Windows, the more disruptive these virus writers become. They need to mandate MS to separate IE from Windows, and curb it's *automatic usability* features. Fine them till they do it, or force them to remove IE all together and not allow them to make a web browser anymore. (wow wouldn't that break 30 million websites that are IE only hah)
:(
anyway, I'm just ranting because I have to deal with this epidemic daily at work...
This is the bill Philip Corwin, Kazaa's lobbyist, wanted.