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360-Degree 3D Imaging
CompSurfer writes "Yesterday, 3Dsolar released information about a new 3D imaging system, it works by somehow projecting onto a rotating screen. According to the story the "Prototype debuts at NVIDIA Oct. 25 in Santa Clara, California and [at] Innovact in Reims, France, October 5-7" I wonder where they are hiding the force field emitter..."
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
I somehow have a feeling that what they are trying to do, just like every other application I have seen (projection through smoke, etc), is not going to turn out quite with either the resolution or clarity they want. I hope it works out, sign me up if it does, but I definitely have my reserve about their claims.
I've seen a handfull of display systems that used a fog screen to project 2d images before, and a few that relied on mirrored surfaces to create a 3d illusion. Light must be reflected off of something in order to be seen. This article doesn't say how it's done, so we'll have to wait for Oct 25 to see how its actually done.
If this uses a fog screen, will it therefore be vaporware.
Bacardi + slashdot = negative karma.
I still remember those "super-cool" (according to the salesman) 3D-glasses with two tiny lcd-displays. After standing in line for like an hour I was allowed to try them on, and playing the coolest game there was at the time - hexen. And I still remember how worthless they were and how ripped-off I felt waiting that hour. This new thing is probably nothing like that piece of shit, but salesmen are still salesmen so I am sceptic.
We need Ben Affleck to reverse engineer the process! *grumblesstupidbadmoviemessingwithphillipkdickgrum bles*
For the very first time, computer users will be able to view 3D objects hovering a few inches away from a screen that rotates 360 degrees - without wearing glasses. The stand-out feature is the way users will be able to manipulate the virtual image directly with their hands as they would a real object.
:O if prices will come down this is certainly going to make porn interesting.
The problem is getting the brain to provide the 3D image.
3D displays using 2D devices rely on getting each eye to see something just a little different. With the old 3D glasses, for instance, one eye sees no blue, the other no red, with each image being slightly different, and the brain gets the blue from one and the red from the other. The brain converts that into a result it can handle. Don't ask me how.
With a rotating screen, each eye would see a slightly different image. Depending on how fast the thing rotates, the brain could interpolate the results into 3D.
Just a guess, but it's a brilliant concept if it works.
sigs, as if you care.
No I don't think so. The porn industry has had access to really detailed CG for some time and they still insist on shooting in some gas station attendant's parents' house. Budgets for porn films go something like:
1. Pay the fluffers : $10
2. Pay the light guy : $10
3. Pay the editing costs : $10
4. Pay the director : $20
5. Pay the stars : $2000 each
6. Pay the drug dealer : $20000
7. Pay the bartender : $5000
And that's how you make a high quality porn film.
But using 3d tech? I've never seen a porn film do it before. That's because it would likely eat into the drugs budget too much!
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Hey man, the clarity on R2D2's emitter wasn't great either, but it was sufficient to...
omg, I'm going to stop now before this post gets any nerdier.
Visit the Game Programming Wiki!
In their PDF Press Kit there is a mention of a patent:
PCT/FR 04/02082
Is this useful to anyone?
This is what is says on the 3Dsolar site...
It doesn't sound like a method of displaying images that have depth, with a different perspective for each eye. It sounds like a way of somehow projecting a 2D image that appears to be in mid air. I recall reading about this sort of thing ages ago, using some tricks with light to make images appear to hover in front of store windows using some form of projection. I think it is inaccurate to describe it as a 3D display if it can't give the perception of depth, but it still sounds like great technology.
... but how do you stop random object selection of objects by passersby who want to do shadow puppet shows?
Wasn't there an arcade game in the early to mid 90's that had a 3D projected image above a glass tabletop? It was some sort of fantasy game with B-rate live actors that swallowed quarters by the bucketful . . . I think it stored the images on laserdisk (like the old 80's laserdisk games), but then projected the images over some sort of tabletop like thing. As I recall, the images flickered and were hard to see . . . I don't know what kind of technology it used but it sounds similar to what's being dicussed here . . .
Light Years Beyond . . . You would think that someone in the optics insdutry would not use the term "Light years" figuratively in a major press release . . .
Looking at the site, it appears that its a projector, and places the image on a special screen, ie, no screen, no image ... I've read on how one "could" do this basically using a specially designed screen that has your eyes seeing 2 different images in any one spot giving the illusion of the image being in front of the screen. But there were limitations including viewing distance.
I get the feeling that this uses simular technology.
I didn't read anything on the site about rotating screens, but I did see that it could achieve a 360deg view, which still possable though a little harder with some of the current and theoretical 3d projection technologies.
Without tactile feedback when interacting with virtual objects, is this really a practical thing that users would embrace? Or is "interact with virtual objects" just a euphemism for using the mouse and keyboard?
This isn't exactly new. It sounds like this system I saw a while back. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying it, but it basically has something akin to a thin pane of glass that spins around really fast.
What they do then is project a different image at each angle onto the glass. The images themselves are kinda like slices of a 3d volume (think volumetric textures). It spins just fast enough to fool the human eye into thinking it's seeing something hovering in midair.
I saw a few QuickTime VR demos of one of these a while back... they showed it with some wireframe terrain and a little purple jet thing in midair, as well as showing the sugar molecule.
Also, if I remember rightly, Nintendo had one of these puppies up a few E3s ago, with a model of that Star Fox character in it. Quite cool.
As for manipulating it by hand, I sure hope I'm wrong about the spinning glass bit...
We're geeks... We're the sorcerers of the modern-day world. --
The company's website: http://www.3dsolar.com/
The only way I could see this working is like those saucer discs that will show penny floating in mid air. The question is, how do you record the 3d image and project it back? 3d is a heck of a lot more information than 2d.
It sounds like all smoke and mirrors to me. No pun intended.
... who wonders how you create 3D images with only one 2D image? Doesn't that limit the 3D images that can be displayed or what???
Great!This help us find out who shot first, Han Solo or Greedo..
At least one blogger seems to be equating them.
.sigs: Just Say No!
They say necessity is the mother of invention, well surly coolness is the father. 3D displays are fantastic for some things, obviously not that useful for all though. I don't know if that's an actual photo on the article maybe I need to RTFA but if it is it's a lot more clear than most 3D displays I've seen. I'd be interesting to see how it stacks up in usability for medical and engineering professionals vs something like SGI's Reality Center products.
Just the kind of endorsement that makes me want to rush out and buy one of these . . . if the two French politicians like it, then it must be a great product!
These guys really should hire a marketing firm to clean up publicity program . . . I don't see how a minister of finance's compliments are going to help commericialize the product.
OK, who can find it?
Just imagine watching the Superbowl or some other sports on this.
A few people already metioned porn. I didn't think of that at first, but WOW, great idea! The porn industry is always first to take up technology.*starts looking for porn DVDs*
gotta a light for my Sig?
Some guys on TV figured out a way to project the image of a pirate ship onto a fog. It was realistic enough that just about everyone believed it.
Then a few meddling kids and their dog showed up and showed how they were doing it. The guys turned out to be criminals in masks and got mad at the kids and the dog.
One of the kids was a stoner type, really liked the dog's snacks, and kept fighting him for them.
Think "Marketing" and remember that hyperbole is their mainstay, and restraint by facts or physics is antithetical...
Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by tenure.
There are a bunch of peeps saying that the technology projects onto a peice of rotating material. Thats not what the article says.
For the very first time, computer users will be able to view 3D objects hovering a few inches away from a screen that rotates 360 degrees - without wearing glasses
I think this phrase is confusing people. That refers to seeing it from 360 deg around. Later in the article it says The 3Dsolar device projects the Windows or MAC desktop image into the air whereby users click on icons for manipulation. Nothing about any rotating surface. I still think there's something funny going on here, but we'll have to wait for some real photos to say how it works, not that PR junk on the site.
Bacardi + slashdot = negative karma.
According to the press kit, its 180 degree view, not the 360 mentioned in the recent atricles
But may i as why such a visually intensive project does not have any snapshots, pictures..
Besides the babe who is trying to imagine there is a cube...
The lunatic is in my head
Perhaps they mean it as it's actually intended to be used... as a measure of distance, and not time?
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it! --Longbottle
3D Visualization Moves Forward
Posted by michael on Friday May 24, @02:44PM
Back in the early 90's. It had a rotating helical screen and project a laser from below. Here's a link at PC Mag that talks about it. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,372857,00.asp
I used to play one at a local bowling alley for cheap(by that time the machine was old and neglected)....I thought that was the coolest thing ever, even if the actual games left a little something to be desired. I always wanted something like that for my home. Did see one at a liquidation sale, but I didn't happen to have $900 on me. Ah, well.
Sleep is futile.
Or else they made the Kessel run in less than 40 light years.
3dsolar makes available an SDK at http://www.3dsolar.com/3dsolar/download/3dsolarsdk .exe.
It contains a single documentation file, a 3dsolar library and header (with just the 3 apis described in the docs), Open Computer vision DLLs, and a modified NeHe cube OpenGL tutorial that when executed just shows a cube rotating.
Here are the contents of the documentation file:
I think their idea is based on the same principle as motion pictures: persistance of vision.
In this case you rotate a translucent screen on a vertical axis at high speed (the screen is spinning so fast that it's not visible) then project a different image onto the screen depending on the angle of the screen... something along those lines I imagine.
Info gathered from their forum:
...) But if by chance we come to East cost before the end of the year we will let you know and send you an invitation for the presentation.
We expect to sell the basic version when it will be produced on large scale between $900-$1500.
We will start with small production and price should be between $2000 - 3500 $
It is not a joke but 100% real you will see screens with 3DSolar effect in shops in about 12-18 months or you can already order a prototype or small series at 10.000$ (retail price around 2500$)
Well in fact we do not project in the air but your brain and your eyes see it in the air, its like when you go to 3d movies and you see flying objects but with the 3DSolar technology you dont need glasses as we only use a simple image (one view).
Unfortunately not, we were suppose to attend to the Siggraph exhibit in LA, but we had declined the invitation. So far we have only one prototype (see picture on the web site) but its not yet ready to sell, we will probably redesign the 3DSolar unit for retail market, and we are in the procress to sign with licensees to speed up the manufacturing process.
We hope to have products coming out in the first months of 2005, so far we just show the prototype to content providers or manufacturers like Nvidia, Atari, Mental Images, Cult3D
We are still in the process to get small series
of 3DSolar prototypes we will contact you as soon as we get fresh news.
We use a completely different technology, we can create a 3D effect withgout using stereoscopy, but it would not work for a flying demo or flight simulator, but it could be great to show a 3D plane and you could rotate around the
plane to see it under different angles like if it was a model, and also rotate it directly with your hand !
Yes it could work for architect to present their work, under two conditions:
1) the object (bulding or house, or bridge) must be on a black background
2) the object cant be larger than the screen display
In order to see the image you must be looking at the projection lens, but the image will appear to be floating in midair in front of or behind the lens (can also be a mirror, as in those virtual-penny saucers someone mentioned).
Now if you somehow oscillated or rotated the lens so that each eye sees a different real image, you'd get full-stereo 3D. And it would be what they describe, a lifelike solid image floating in front of the projection equipment.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
Check out Pornomation. The closest I've *cough* heard of computer animation used with Porn.
Pornomation
The "penny floating in the saucer" trick used the focal point of a mirror to do the trick. One similar item I recall hearing about did the same thing, but used a projector and a vibrating mirror. As the mirror moved in and out extremely fast, it produced the image of the source (screen?) at a different point of focus; Thus producing a virtual image at a certain point.
So can we modify this a bit by using a spinning glass disk shaped as a variable lens? This eliminates the need for the mirror to oscillate. Rotation is smoother and faster. As different parts of the lens disk pass the source, the virtual image is produced in different locations.
But it still has to be direct line of sight to the source lens. Maybe use a secondary, much larger fixed glass lens to help make the image bigger?
I agree? Where's Ben Affleck when you need him?
If you're interested in actual 3D displays you can buy today, read my review of the existing products at:
8 .h tml
http://vancouver.siggraph.org/12_archive_2004-0
-m
If you go to their website, click "contact us" and look through their forums, it is /painfully/ obvious that this is a scam. It's like an even less credible phantom gaming system. How did this even get posted on slashdot? It's complete BS.
I peeked into this game once and noticed what looked like an upsidedown tv. The dome just made an image of it that looked like it was virtualy in front of you. I don't remember it looking 3d as much as 2d that was just there.
...speaking of which, I'm going to go "interact with my virtual object" right now.
I think this would open new oppertunities for the sex industry...just imagine being on your computer with 3D images and then a popup from GoldenPalace.com shows up with a naked women with her ass in your face.
It seems similar, or may even use some of the same technology as http://www.io2technology.com./
I wonder if in this case, the air ionizer spins instead of remaining stationary.
Neil is that you? Yeah yeah, it's me... Neil...
That looks a lot like the DL-1 digital light projector, which is a video projector on a 2-axis tilt mount. "Using the motion control feature, project your imagery anywhere in a 3D space". It's used for nightclubs and stage shows.
It's a cute stage effect, but not a breakthrough.
So by modulating when you illuminate it (and what color, and how bright) you should be able to create a very nice representation of multiple objects; since the illumination only plays at the appropriate location in space, no glasses or other viewer-end tricks would need to be employed. It wouldn't look 3d, it would be 3d.
There would be size/material limitations, of course - the larger this thing is, the faster the outer edges have to go to get the same update speed. This would be a better approach for a personal viewing device than a group viewing device, I think.
Or, if you used a white surface, so that exact front-view objects could be created, put these spinners into "glasses" that would physically travel with the user, then sensing the viewers position would allow the display to change appropriately.
You could do some interesting things with a non-glasses version by making the screw something that varies in transparency as well - LCD or electrically controlled polarization. It'd have to be fast, though. LCD might not like the kinetic energy applied by the spinning, either.
It seems to me that all of the really hard complexity is in the illumination end, not the display end. Where do we get 3D information about the world? It's fine if you have synthetic scenes, for instance the output of a ray tracer, but to record 3D information about a real scene... ouch.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
I dont get that the editors dont research and ban this kind of baloney. The site is likely nothing more than a hideout for a money making scam.
This is as another one notes much like www.io2technology.com, which also boasts physics defying stunts. For this to work you would have to make the very air light emitting, and on top of that be able to control the color of that light. In the future that might be possible with force fields and all, but for now it is but a ruse for the daft with money. But hey they are few and will in all cases soon part with their money any way.
Damn why didnt i think of such a scam.
Damn this conscience of mine.
"Help me Obi Wan kenobi. You're my only hope"
I remember going to a science museum when child. And I've studied a bit of holography.
Holography stores some kind of interference pattern obtained from hitting an object with normal light and with a laser beam. The "difference" of these light patterns can be stored in 2D surfaces. All you need to display the holograph, is a light source hitting those surfaces, and voila.
Now the *INTERESTING* thing about holographic displays, is that they replace the interference pattern imprinting process, with COMPUTER CALCULATIONS. The computer reproduces the calculated interference pattern.
So if these interference patterns can be changed, we have not only holography, but holovideo.
Here's what i found: a holovideo link showing the process.
Google Redirect: http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://tech2.nyti mes.com/mem/technology/techreview.html?res=9D00E1D C163FF93BA25751C1A9659C8B63
"I wonder where they are hiding the force field emitter..."
IIRC, I'm pretty it's right behind the flux capacitor.