Slashdot Mirror
GTA Blamed for Columbine-style Massacre Planning
bippy writes "A Miami attorney claims that a teen accused of plotting a massacre used GTA to prepare for the attack, RedAssedBaboon reports.
Attorney Jack Thompson is the same guy who is trying to link the murder of Stefan Pakeerah last year to Manhunt. Pakeerah was beaten to death with a claw hammer by a friend who, Thompson claims, was inspired by Manhunt. The uproar surrounding the case led to the game being pulled from many British store shelves and Prime Minister Tony Blair looking into a link between violence and video games. It looks like Thompson has found himself a niche." Update: 10/10 19:25 GMT by T : Peter Endean writes "It might be worth noting that in fact in the case of the murder linked to Manhunt, it was the victim who owned the game."
It was the victim who owned manhunt, not the murderer!
u rder_claim/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/04/manhunt_m
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
At first I read the title as:
"GTA Blames for Columbine-style Massacre Planning"
Thoughts rushed through my head widldly of Rock Star Games suing someone related to Columbine-style massacre planning for copyright infringement. Suddenly, it made me feel all giddy and righteous inside.
Someday, someday. Someday we'll win the war on terrorists stealing ideas from games.
- shazow
I've played both GTA games and not ONE of them had a goal in the game to mow down cops in any of the levels. This is just silly. I hate it when these tight-assed lawyers are making ridiculous claims about Rockstar without even playing the game!
Also used in the planning of crimes:
paper, pens, computers, audio tapes, maps, telephons - sometimes people actually act out the crime in preperation so they'll know what to do and might use sticks as makeshift "weapons". Sticks should be outlawed clearly.
What's so special about cops and why only in videogames?
Eric Clapton sang about "I shot the sheriff".
Cops are killed in movies and television shows all the time and have been for some six or seven decades at the very least.
Cops are killed in books all the time.
All sorts of people are killed in all sorts of movies, music, books, television shows, plays and even VIDEO GAMES.
** Why is it okay to kill cops in any media EXCEPT videogames/interactive media?
** Why is it okay to kill everyone else BUT cops in interactive media?
It's not like police are some high and mighty upper class that rises above the rest of the world in importance simply becuase of the authority they wieild over citizens.
There may be a link between violence and games - I don't think so, but it doesn't seem certain. Regardless, this lawyer is lying, and making obvious lies. I don't get it - how the hell does he expect to get away with this? A lot of people have played GTA, and they all know "that the tactic of luring police to a scene and then killing them" is, in fact, NOT "key to succeeding in Grand Theft Auto." What does he get out of telling such obvious lies?
Pakeerah was beaten to death with a claw hammer by a friend who, Thompson claims, was inspired by Manhunt.
Yeah, and everybody seems to overlook one fact: the "damning evidence" that the police found the game in the kid's bedroom was, in fact, found in the victim's bedroom.
That wasn't the first time Thompson has been involved in cases like this; he's a well-known crank who foists himself on the families of victims and convinces them that the games are to blame. In one case, he tried to persue a case against the wishes of the victim's family. He's also harrassed people and had restraining orders taken out against him. He's a crank of the highest order. You want to know why you hear so many stories about "evil games"? It's him and people like him.
GTA 1 ,the original top down game that started it all, had a misssion to blow up a police staion with a car bomb. Also in GTA 1 when you went on a "KILL FRENZY!" you didn't have to kill specific folks any folks would do incuding cops. GTA 3 had a mission to kill an (oddly animated) undercover cop named Tanner, by lobbing grenades through his window. Vice city has a mission where you lure two cops into a garage to stealthier uniforms, presumably by killing them.
But you are right odds are the lawyers never played the game.
I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
blame the tool blame the carpenter!!!
using this logic the boxcutters company that built the ones used in 9/11 would be charged as well
back in the day we didnt have no old school
If I print out the Patriot Act and beat someone to death with it...
Hate me!
All I can say is that the murderer was obviously *not that much of a friend* if he killed his so called "friend"
"lack of quality control is one of the pillars of slashdot"
u know every one blames video games and movies but last time i checked they did have "Ratings".. these TEENS.. where able to obtain a video game with a MATURE rating blame the parents or the clerks who sold these kids the game...
The next one of you to commit some stupid crime, blame windows, maybe we can get it banned.
Then he's a serial killer because he had no motive. Also, from what I understand, most postal workers aren't big video game fanatics. Ever hear of "going postal?"
So Wacky Jack is at it again, eh. Just further proof that Jack Thompson is an opportunistic scumbag who got his law degree from a box of Froot Loops, since he obviously needs a complete psychiatric evalution. The key word in "evalution" is value. Does Jack Thompson have any? HELL NO! He's a total loser with a skinny weiner! Thompson is also the poster child for not only tort reform, but the birth control pill as well. Thompson has also made PROSTITUTION a more noble profession than his own.
It's like what Mick Foley said about PTC founder Brent Bozell: Thompson must truly believe his own bullshit and it seems like nothing will change his mind, even though recent court decisions in favor of the industry in the last few years have effectively destroyed his credibility.
But seriously, Thompson is now just grasping at straws, especially with his web of un-truths are being eroded as more and more people see him for the scumbag he is, especially as the courts continue to side with the industry and reject his increasingly dated vision, and ESPECIALLY as frequent critics like Joe Lieberman give praise to the industry for its ratings system.
In conclusion, Jack Thompson must be daft to think that anybody would actually take him seriously anymore.
== BearDogg-X ==
Turns out the crusades happened before violent media even existed, and lots of people died!
SAILING MISHAP
Ok the kid's claim is bullshit anyway, and we all know that. He's trying to pawn off responsibility, and the claim probably came from his parents or some shit anyway.
Fact 1: The game has an MA rating, so any kid under 17 or 18 is not able to buy it (ideally). So how could he even get such a game? Well in all probability his parent's bought it for him, so even if this was some derranged world where his claim was true, it's the fault and responsibility of the parents for knowing what this kid is playing and making sure he isn't playing things he's not supposed to.
Fact 2: The average age of a video game player is 28. You cannot tell a 28 year old what they can or can't play, so they can't get rid of these games. It's not our fault that stores and parents don't enforce the rating system, it's their responsibility.
it never ceases to amaze me how ignorant people are, people who obviously know nothing of psychology attribute a positive correlation between violent behavior and playing violent video games as proof that playing such games CAUSES violent behavior. The problem is that they don't even think to consider that people who have violent tendencies could be drawn to violent video games, a much more straight-forward and likely conclusion. Even considering that such games, and this goes for any other media, contribute to a person's behavior, which I personally believe it does although not to such an extent, they can't be driven to commit such violent acts simply by a game, this type of mindset requires years of behavioral programming and if anyone is to be blamed the parents are of the most obvious position.
Free iPod www.freeiPods.com
Pac-man Blamed for Obesity
Hmmm...does this seem weird?
"GTA Blamed for Columbine-style Massacre Planning"
That Blair didn't find any fault with anyone in the Manhunt case either, thanks to ELSPA and some common sense.
The victims father dubbed Manhunt "a manual for murder".
I'd like to know who bought "The victim" the game since he was only 17? Could it have possibly been his parents?
The article shows that Jack Thompson says:
I've played the newer GTA games, and critical to winning the game is to avoid killing civilians or police, as the police will come down harder on you if you do. Mr. Thompson may have a valid point in linking video games to violence, but this outright lie undermines his credibility.
MOUNT TAPE U1439 ON B3, NO RING
How do you use GTA to plan a Columbine-style attack anyway? Open the door of an unlocked car and immediately start the engine, then drive it into the school? After getting out, be sure to hold the R1 button so you can aim properly at your target!
This lawyer is a moron.
...or maybe it is, but at least the mother of the victim has stated in public that the murderer gave the game to her son a few days before his death.
I knew amalgamation was bad, but blamed for this? Sheesh - that's reaching. Alert Mel Lastman! Call in the Military!!!!
All kinds of BS, and people tend to quote those studies that verify their existing beliefs. I have this same problem, of course, but I did see a study done on children that surprised me with its originality.
Basically what they did was monitor several classrooms of children (a variety of age groupings) and recorded all physical interactions (shoving, head-bonking, grabbing, etc). Then they showed movies to the class depicting violent activities. They continued recording the physical interactions and what they found was that only a few of the children were affected. Most kids experienced no change in behavior, but some kids had a large increase in attacks on others. The ones who increased their atacks were children who it later turned out were already diagnosed as disturbed children.
The study was somewhat more complex than as I describe it, but the conclusion they drew was not what they had expected to find. The conclusion was that viewing depictions of violent behaviors did not affect healthy children, but that it did affect disturbed children, and it affected them badly.
So what do we do? How can we regulate a product that causes no harm to healthy people?
We have the same problem with drugs: most people can do recreational drugs from time to time without harm; they can regulate their usage and have sense enough to not drive doing while doing LSD and meth. The same can be said for alcohol - some people become destructive when allowed to drink alcohol.
It appears that the percentage of people in our population who cannot drink is small enough that we can tolerate the side effects of those who cannot handle it. On the other hand, it may be that the number of people who can use heroin or cocaine responsibly without becoming lost to it (and there are those) is small enough that there is a significant danger to society from the side effects. Imagine what life would be like if every fifth person at work was coming off a 2-week meth run.
There are patchwork solutions in place. For example, it may surprise you to learn that convicted murderers in the United States are forbidden from owning guns - even after they've completed their prison sentence!
Another solution is that we don't allow children to purchase or operate dangerous products such as alcohol, guns, automobiles, and voting machines even though many children do have the skills and judgement to use these products.
So we ask ourselves are violent video games dangerous in that they may affect unhealthy people in such significant numbers that society is endangered? It seems unlikely to me to be a problem, but it has been shown that it's bad for some people such as the disturbed children above.
What bothers me about kill-games is what makes it different from watching killing on TV. You're actually practicing the very thing that we don't want you to do - going through the motions over and over. No prob with healthy people (I must not be one because although World of Warcraft has no effect on be besides exhaustion, Counterstrike leaves me with a very itchy trigger finger)
So, our compromise in these cases is to prevent the acquisition of these products until the children are of an age where their judgement has matured to dampen their urges (I want to kill the teacher, but then the police will then kill me if I do that).
Officer 1: "Lieutenant, I searched the house, it appears to be clean. The only suspicious article I found was the boys prescription to prozac in the medicine cabinet. As many of us know, prozac has been found to cause psychotic and suicidal tendencies"
Lieutenant: "Officer Downing, may I remind you that the media is waiting in the front yard. Check the game console and stop wasting time"
Officer 1: "yes sir! hmmm, Looks like he was a fan of Mario Cart."
Officer 2: "Sir, his little sister has a copy of Grand Theft Auto in her Playstation!"
Lieutenant: "Call it in boys.. I'll be outside making a statement."
Mr. Thompson may have a valid point in linking video games to violence, but this outright lie undermines his credibility.
He has no valid point. He has only lies.
Videogames cause violence, cartoons cause violence, movies cause violence, comix cause violence, etc. If they did, every videogame testing department in the world would be overflowing with blood, wouldn't they?
You know what causes violence? VIOLENCE!
Getting slapped around by your family, by bigger kids at school. Watching daddy beat the snot out of mommy, these things cause violence. But blaming the newest media is much easier than tackling real issues, or admitting they even exist.
And please, won't somebody think of the children?
You can't take the sky from me...
This kind of shit has been happening ever since kids starting playing games that involve some degree of violence. Remember the big Dungeons and Dragons scare in the early 80s? People were blaming their fucked up kids' violence on that rather than their own horrible parenting / child's mental illness.
No one wants to admit that the problem might lie with someone they can't sue.
This message brought to you by the Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People.
One can thus conclude that he must have really sucked at it.
there is a link between violence and videogames -- violence and TV, movies, everything your heart desires! And let's also assume that the link is direct and much stronger than it seems, right now, to be.
Well, what the fuck are you going to do about it? I still think the principle behind Amendment Numero Uno is superior to whatever kind of inducement people may find in forms of communication.
There are case law exceptions to freedom of speech, of course, and direct inducement of others to kill, or conspiracy with others to murder, is and should not be protected. But depictions of crimes, and even interactive simulations of them, are but vaporous, pale shadows of the crimes themselves, and should be protected as a matter of course -- NOT because they serve any specially useful purpose -- many don't, other than the glee we get ramming into simulated pedestrians -- but because that is the default judgment.
Moreover, as a matter of sublimating our more murderous urges, I applaud violent video games for making our streets safer.
Tenemus pyrobolos atqui jacimus cognitiones.
Chris Rock said it best "What happened to 'crazy?' What, you can't be crazy no more?"
Since the teenager apparently stole the idea/drew inspiration to plot a mass murder, Rockstar Games should counter-sue the teenager for theft of intellectual property and breech of copyright.
That is the age you have to be to buy a mature rated game....He could have bought it himself legally.
Creative Demolition
Or, if you prefer a more direct approach, he can be reached via phone at: 305-666-4366 or by email at jackpeace@comcast.net.
And finally, if you really feel like you need to meet him and tell him how much you agree with what he preaches, feel free to visit him at his office located at:
1172 South Dixie Hwy., Suite 111
Coral Gables, FL 33146
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
The problem with kids today, is not that they are playing violently realistic videogames, it is that total and utter lack of fear. Nobody today beats their kids anymore, and I'm not talking about abuse. I am the person who I am today because when I was bad, my ass got beat. I was beat by the nuns, the brothers of the sacred heart, my mom and dad, uncles, etc. I deserved to get beat, and it put the fear of God into me. It takes a cold blooded person to pick up a CLAW HAMMER and beat someone to death. The lack of fear, or consequences is one of main contributing factors to this murder, not GTA. I have to also put the blame on the parents. A lot of parents today are "ghosts" and you can't let your kid run free without any checks or balances and expect him/her to not turn out maligned. Still, it takes a ruthless bastard to kill someone with a friggin' hammer.
"Jeremy, you need to get to an internet cafe and cut and paste some appropriate sentiments about me from the world wide
The fact that we are even discussing the 'implications' of a Cop force and its impact on society should lead you to answer your own question, 'whats so special?'
The answer: When you live in a Police State, you will worship Police.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
May God bless you in the meantime. If you have kids, have them start shooting hoops instead of humans.
Gag! Pass the sick bag, Vicar!
Jack Thompson has appeared recently on a number of national television program with victims of two teenage Tennessee snipers whom police concluded trained obsessively on Grand Theft Auto to prepare for their sniping spree.
I think not. Counter-Strike or BF1942 would be much better practice for snipers than GTA!
--
USA: home of the world's largest terrorist training camp.
WTF? This is STILL going on? People still can't take responsibility for their own actions or for doing a lousy job (if they're doing it at all) at raising their kids?
Fine. Maybe I'll go out and kill a few people here and there and blame it on the history books I read in school. Maybe build a nuke and let it go off (disclaimer to Homeland Security...I'm not really going to do this...I'm just making a point) because I read about it and saw it on TV.
I know I'm preaching to the choir right now, but every time I read something like this, my blood boils. If we keep letting these inane lawsuits continue to thrive in our courts (and continue to get press coverage), we'll be limited to playing games like Q-Bert (unless that glorifies jumping off suspended cubes) and worse...this will become a very dangerous society to live in because any freak who decides to go on a killing rampage can just blame it on TV, games, a comic they read, etc.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
The victim may have owned the game But the victim got owned all the same!
The board game chess has been blamed for the attempt on King James's life. "I can't believe it's legal to buy and sell this game", said one scotland yard official. "It's a regicide simulator, often requiring the player to mow down those protecting the King as well."
I haven't RTFA but what I'm tired of is parents that don't accept that perhaps their parenting (or lack of it) was in some way responsible for the things their offspring do to other people. Or ... maybe their kids were just MENTALLY DEFECTIVE from the outset. Millions of children and adults play video games (violent or otherwise) without experiencing the slightest desire to commit real violence upon someone else's person. In my case, playing first-person shooters actually provides a considerable release of tension from the stress of work and family. Fact is, violence (or at least the awareness of it) is a part of life, and it is a parent's job to make sure their children understand that there are only a limited number of situations where violence provides an acceptable resolution. Oh, and let's not forget other societal basics such as MURDER IS WRONG.
I grew up in a era where television cartoons (and for that matter, theatre cartoons) hadn't yet been subjected to decades of liberal anti-violence crusading. Consequently, they were pretty bloody in comparison to what passes for cartoons today, and were generally much more entertaining for that reason. But I had no problem distinguishing between what I saw on the screen and what I experienced in the real world, and haven't killed anyone yet. The crusade against media violence has successfully neutered the cartoon world (I give you PowerPuff Girls, Your Honor. The prosecution rests), and is now turning its jaundiced eye towards video games.
Blaming video games (or movies, or TV, or any of a dozen other purported "causes" for teenage violence) is denial on our part, and a degree of misdirection by our leaders. There are some deep-rooted problems with our culture, no argument there, but we won't solve those problems until we truly address them. Pointing fingers at the media doesn't do that, but actually eliminating the violence and irrationality in our society would require doing things that might make politicians unpopular. Much easier to just pass a law against violent imagery and pretend that "something was done."
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
It's sad to see the morality police trying to use any excuse possible to control content they don't approve of. Using the logic of these misguided individuals, the next trend will be for kids to start making big balls out of everything, imitating Katamari Damacy.