30 Years Of Dungeons And Dragons

vasqzr writes "CNN has a story about Dungeons and Dragons celebrating its 30th birthday. 'An estimated 25,000 fans in 1,200 stores celebrated the anniversary Saturday, said Charles Ryan, brand manager for role-playing games at Wizards of the Coast, a Renton, Washington, company that owns Dungeons & Dragons.'"

Comments

Although correlation != causation

[Anonymous Coward]

Countries with D&D have seen their birthrates decrease for the past 30 years.

Re:Although correlation != causation

[daniil]

Ahh, it saddens me to think of all the heroes that have fallen in countless D&D combats. The best warriors are routinely slaughtered, but for what purpose? What are they fihting and dying for? Gold? But what good has all this gold brought them? Had they stayed at home, they would have become good farmers or blacksmiths (or, who knows, perhaps even philosophers, searching for a better tomorrow), good husbands to their wives, good fathers to their sons and daughters. But alas, they are all gone. They have all died in this pointless war.

*wipes a tear from his face, grabs his bag'o'dice and notebook, and marches off into a distant realm*

Re:Although correlation != causation

[John Courtland]

You know, I've found the opposite to be true (although the joke is very well timed and very funny :) )

Most people I know that play D&D (not a great sample size, but I think I meet the requisite 34) are sexual maniacs. But then again, it may be countered by the prudes.

Re:Although correlation != causation

[WarPresident]

Ahh, it saddens me to think of all the heroes that have fallen in countless D&D combats. The best warriors are routinely slaughtered, but for what purpose? What are they fihting and dying for?

Usually for pissing off the DM... Took the last powdered donut without asking? Your character's last words might be:

"What do you mean the feather fall wears off?"
"C'mon guys, it's just a pile of dragon bones... guys?"
"What's a tarrasque?"
"HOW many Kobolds?"

Re:Although correlation != causation

[tonywong]

I really don't understand... I've been a half-elf ranger/bard for 20+ years now with a charisma of 17 and I still can't get laid.

Cripes, some of these women won't even touch the d20. How do they expect me to approach them then?

Re:Although correlation != causation

[Drawkcab]

"Had they stayed at home, they would have become good farmers or blacksmiths (or, who knows, perhaps even philosophers, searching for a better tomorrow), good husbands to their wives, good fathers to their sons and daughters."

Nope, you can't be good at any of that without skill points from killing kobolds and giant bats. Of course I suppose a clever enough farmer might get the experience to be a great philosopher if they manage to find and exterminate an ant colony in their field.

Re:Although correlation != causation

[killjoe]

My experience has been that women really like the game once they start palying it. The trick though is to emphasize the roleplaying aspect of it. In other words punish and reward the characters for good and bad acting. The best part of the game is acting anyway and what women doesn't want to try acting in a safe environment (i.e an audience of 5 rather then 500).

Re:Although correlation != causation

[Believe]

For those like me who are not as well versed in D&D lore, Tarrasques are described here.

Re:Although correlation != causation

[fucksl4shd0t]

Didn't it ever occur to you to just grab a few d10s and use those for your hit points? That way you're only erasing and rewriting your hit points once a game, at the end when it's time to go.

Or, for those of us who suffered Frequent Death Syndrome, I could just use a d12 to track my hit points.

30 years!

[geeveees]

THIRTY years of Dungeons&Dragons!

It's a ...

/me rolls 1d6

...HAPPY birthday!

Re:30 years!

[munehiro]

1d20. Or is your happy birthday like a short sword hit ? :P

30 Years?

[Pan T. Hose]

Wow. I am very -- *rolls dice* -- surprised that it's already so long.

Thanks...

[MrFluffyPants26]

..for telling me a day late.

Thanks...

[while(true)]

...for making me feel old, you insensitive clod!

Just kidding, happy big 30 D&D! :)

Nice, Sort Of

[mfh]

D&D is such a great game. I would like to thank Ed Greenwood for his wonderful contributions to the game in the form of the Forgotten Realms. Truly inspirational work this stuff is, or at least was. But sadly TSR has gone downhill since being eaten by the WoSC group, who used to just make a bunch of playing cards. Before you all pipe in and tell me to shut the hell up (because 3rd gen r00lz), I'll have you know that any time a module presents NINE 10th level fighters together as a battle, like in the Ravenloft adventures in and around Bluetspur, you have to ask if the depth of the game has been replaced by the stats that go with it. The answer has to be that the game has indeed shifted from a game of detailed and rich storytelling, such as with Ed Greenwood's additions, to a game of character advancement by hacking and slashing monsters, and people.

I'm sorry but TSR jumped the shark with Ravenloft, not to mention Spell Jamming.

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[NeoSkandranon]

To me Forgotten Realms IS D&D just about...I started D&D with the FR setting (improvising, just using maps, not the acutal FR campaign setting) and I really love it..there's so much back-material that a DM can incorporate and so many places and whatnot. Some people may call me unoriginal for not wanting to create my own worlds, but frankly I don't think that a campaign suffers much from having a ready body of terrain and culture to take from...

Either way, down one for Ed Greenwood (and pray his books come out in paperback faster!)

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[Moby Cock]

I have to agree. I used to play AD&D years ago until a friend of mine wanted to switch over to play the Star Wars RPG. It was fun change for a short while until the characters became all powerful (read: super stong Jedis). That game, like your comment, really focused on getting better skills and then killing more stormtroopers. Its fun for a little bit but gets old.

I remeber playing AD&D and the reward at the end of a weekend of adventuring was a sword. And it took another weekend to find the magician that told me it did. Good times.

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[Junior J. Junior III]

Ravenloft and Spelljammer were 2nd edition. And yes, it was getting lame at that point. Ahem, relatively speaking.

But 3rd edition was a great revision. The core rules are wonderfully streamlined, yet complex. The system has its flaws and faults still, but melee in 3e was the most managable system of any edition since Basic D&D.

D&D always runs into a problem where in order to keep selling books they have to publish more and more titles, and after a while the well runs dry and they just don't playtest or quality control like they should. But if you stick to the core books and your own house rules, it's a great game.

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[Bootsy Collins]

I can understand (and agree with) this argument if all one does is use the pre-prepared campaigns and adventures put out by WotC. But if you're designing your own campaign, I don't see how this need be true. I can't tell you you're wrong, since I haven't run a game or played under D&D3 rules (since I'm not playing or running games at all these days). But you don't have to use the campaigns that WotC puts out.

Put another way, what is it about D&D3 (as opposed to AD&D2 or AD&D1 or original D&D -- don't know much about D&D2 myself) that prevents a creative referee from desigining an interesting campaign, containing involving stories, and presenting them in an engaging fashion?

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[skroz]

you have to ask if the depth of the game has been replaced by the stats that go with it. The answer has to be that the game has indeed shifted from a game of detailed and rich storytelling, such as with Ed Greenwood's additions, to a game of character advancement by hacking and slashing monsters, and people

You forget one very important thing about D&D and RPGs in general... the game is what you make of it. The system is incidental. If your GM and players all want a game about hacking and slashing, then the d20 rules will give you a great place to do that. If your group wants action, adventure, character development, intrigue, and all of the "flavor," then you can also do that within the framework that WoTC has provided with third edition. Or you could use another system. Or use no system at all.

Personally, I'm thrilled with the changes made from 2nd edition to 3rd. 3.5 doesn't sit as well, but they really did fix a lot from 3.0. But the books themselves are there as tools to help GMs (sorry, DMs) build worlds, and it's up to the storyteller to create a world in which the players can find adventure. You don't need rules for that... you need rules to keep everyone from arguing with each other when you do need to figure out what happens to the kobold when it gets hit with the +5 axe of vorpal soothing.

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[heptapod]

The biggest flaw with D&D 3.5 is the fact that it still requires people to use obscure polyhedral dice. How many times have you rolled a d12 in a game?
I'm surprised that the folks working on D&D didn't take stock of what kind of dice get rolled most frequently and migrate the system to using one kind of die like other gaming systems.

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[BeerCat]

Ah, the days when the DM concentrated on storylines, all the while trying to avoid the IUDC syndrome.

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[Allen Varney]

sadly TSR has gone downhill since being eaten by the [WotC] group [...] TSR jumped the shark with Ravenloft, not to mention Spell Jamming.

As others have pointed out, TSR published the Ravenloft and Spelljammer campaign settings long before Wizards of the Coast bought TSR. More to the point, many fans regard the Ravenloft setting as one of the high points of the TSR years, because of its sharp sense of the Gothic horror genre. Wizards sold the line to White Wolf Game Studio, which continues to publish it under its Arthaus imprint.

As for Spelljammer, that was my own favorite AD&D campaign setting (along with Al-Qadim, the Arabian Nights setting). I had great fun writing the first Spelljammer module, WILDSPACE. Unfortunate much of the support line failed to live up to the premise's potential.

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[meringuoid]

you need rules to keep everyone from arguing with each other when you do need to figure out what happens to the kobold when it gets hit with the +5 axe of vorpal soothing.

His arm comes off, but he's OK about it.

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[muhcashin]

Well, from my experience, rules are useful (and perhaps necessary) to hack-and-slash games. Those games require a lot dice rolling whereas the more-talk-less-fight games generally don't need very detailed rules. Immersive story-telling games need only a reasonable DM. And to those who hate hack-and-slashing, D&D was born from war games, so it only makes sense that violence and killing be part of it.

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[Thangodin]

I am partial to 2nd ed, and I loved the first ed Gygax modules (the Vault of the Drow series and Giants series). And I've got a shelfload of Dragon magazines. But really, the whole point was never the rules, but what you did with them. The nice thing about D&D was the fudge factor--as the DM, you could scale the difficulty level as you went to bring the party to the edge of defeat without wiping them out. More strictly defined rules systems didn't leave this leeway, because players could tell from the dice roll whether they had succeeded or not. In D&D the DM was always the final arbiter. Now you can run online adventures with Neverwinter Nights, so if your old D&D group has split up into different cities, you can still play together, but I'm not sure it gives the same leeway.

I was lucky in that I played in university with a bunch of people with multiple degrees. We had people in history, philosophy, english, political science, psychology, and engineering, all voracious readers, and a couple of hard core gamers. The interesting thing about running in a tabletop game is that the DM plays God, so you really get to see what their idea of justice, politics, economics, and human nature is. This led to a lot of interesting discussions on subjects like the nature of evil or medieval politics. We used to have pitched arguments about the difference between religion in the game world vs. the medieval world. The gods in the game world took active roles, while the God of the medieval church never intervened. This meant that religion in the game world was actually controlled by the gods--a very interesting premise.

Another interesting thing about D&D is that it is intended as a fully cooperative game. A lot of cooperative games were created in the 70's, but D&D is the only one that caught on. The opponents are provided by the DM, who nevertheless is not playing against the players. This was always missed by the hysterical critics, who were obsessed with the violence in the game or the mythical elements (eewwww--the occult!) Media coverage of the game in the early days was pathetic. They were always so intent on looking for a scare story that they couldn't see what was going on right in front of them: players working together in a creative hobby.

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[JudicatorX]

using one kind of die like other gaming systems.

Boring....

I don't want to need to roll 4d6 for every attack.

Using one kind of die == lacks versatility.

Besides, d10's, d12's etc are are hardly "obscure"... d1000's yes, but when you can get the damned things for under a buck, I'd hardly call them obscure.

Also, you can use them to fascinate non-gamers ("wow, a dice that doesn't have six sides...")

:P

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[greulich]

If you are really low on cash you can just use the SRD. All of the rules available for free on the web. What a concept...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/s rd35

Re:Nice, Sort Of

[RedWizzard]

You're confused. Ravenloft and Spelljammer are pre WotC, and the power-gaming you seem to be complaining about was around well before 3rd edition, infact most of it predates 2nd edition. Was it really necessary or desirable for TSR to publish statistics for gods (Deities and Demigods)? Was there much storytelling potential in the artifacts presented in 1st edition? Or monsters such as the much loved Tarrasque?

From the economic point of view 2nd edition really felt exploitive with the never ending range of class and race specific handbooks. TSR were known for their heavy handed tactics with website owners and small publishers, and indeed anyone they felt was a threat.

After WotC bought TSR things immediately improved. 3rd edition is a much more consistent and intuitive set of rules. The few badly abused rules in 3rd edition (like critical ranges) have been mostly fixed up in 3.5. The Open Gaming License and free availability of the System Reference Documents make WotC at least appear to be much more friendly, fair, and reasonable with their customers than TSR was in the later years. There is also a huge amount more free content available from WotC than TSR ever provided.

Am I the only one that noticed...

[slappyjack]

...that it looks like the A.P. has poorly educated High School Students writing their articles now?

I mean, this thing looks like its target at about a 4th grade reading level.

Happy B-Day to D&D anyway.

Obligatory

[quintesson]

... and it still hasn't moved out of it's parents' basement!

I wonder if the D20 system will last that long.

Gaah!

[Trikenstein]

I blew my saving throw and had to rta!

Where're the Cheetos???

[zrk]

Can I have some Mountain Dew?

Re:Where're the Cheetos???

[Gabrill]

Yes! You can have a Mt. Dew! Just go get it!

Re:Where're the Cheetos???

[Psionicist]

I attack the darkness!

World Record?

[BurritoWarrior]

Will they get into the Guinness Book for all-time largest gathering of virgins?

That first session, so long ago...

[Etherwalk]

In the beginning there was the fighter, and he was without wisdom and void of intellect. So he was named sponge. And there was evening and there was morning, the first character.

Re:That first session, so long ago...

[Sponge Bath]

So he was named sponge.

Whaaa? I always played a bard.

<musical spock>
Ahhhhhh... bitter dregs.
</musical spock>

Wow..

[NightWulf]

"An estimated 25,000 fans in 1,200 stores celebrated the anniversary Saturday". Wow, A vacuum of virginity only rivaled by that of a Star Trek convention. I kid! I kid!

Re:Wow..

[ckaminski]

Great comment on WAAF in Boston Friday:

D&D is 30 today, only 2 years younger than the virgins who play it.

Dupe

[Junior J. Junior III]

This story hit a few months ago, and was covered on Slashdot.

Here and
Here.

24,999 guys with chainmail bikini posters.

[leftie]

1 chubby girl that shouldn't have worn a chainmail bikini.

Changing Demographics?

[subrosas]

I've seen sailors in the USN play D&D, lawyers play D&D, children play D&D with their parents. I've seen sysadmins play, financial advisors play, even a high school teacher or two.
D&D has left the basement rec room geek nirvana of the early '80s and gone elsewhere, as the article (barely) alluded to.

Re:Changing Demographics?

[skroz]

It's apparently HUGE in the USN, particularly on submarines. The crewmen are trapped down in little sardine cans for months on end with little to do when not on duty, so a lot play D&D.

Re:Changing Demographics?

[hai.uchida]

It's apparently HUGE in the USN, particularly on submarines. The crewmen are trapped down in little sardine cans for months on end with little to do when not on duty, so a lot play D&D.

Those geeks should get out and get themselves some girlfriends!

Re:Changing Demographics?

[AndroidCat]

At least they wouldn't get too many arguments when the ref says "No, you can't swing your two-handed sword or ride your horse in that narrow dungeon corridor."

Old or young?

[mhollis]

Back in the Middle Ages (the 1980s) I had a group of about ten people, male and female playing regularly. We played one dungeon for about four months and it was then that I started allowing everyone to keep their characters and started reading history in order to accomodate their increasing character strengths and abilities.

We were also playing games on Apple ][ computers...

Sadly, I moved out of the area we were playing in to accept a job where I have now lived for 20 years. Last I heard the group still met, though once monthly. One of the girls in our group married one of the boys (they were well-suited for each other even though I always thought their characters took out their relationship frustrations on each other) and they now have two children.

"So, Daddy, how did you meet mommy?"
"Actually, she cast a spell that felled an orc that was just about to kill me."

Another one of the girls married, then divorced one of the boys -- then married another boy from the group. They have no children, which is probably a good thing if my memory about their temperment serves me

"So how did you two meet, anyway?"
"I was married to one knight when he came in and swept me off my feet and onto his white charger, while fighting off an underworld demon. I cast a spell of enchantment on him and the rest is history."

Funny thing is, I'm still unmarried.

"Sincere, erudite dungeonmaster seeks....

And yet...

[Valiss]

.... 90% of the responses from players in game is still "I roll to attack."

I love hack n slash.

New round, roll for initiative!

[Fractal Dice]

D&D really was one of those rare cases of something "new". Before the net was popular, it was a great tool for social networking for geeks. Every tech job I've ever had came not from my experience or my education, but from contacts made over the years around gaming tables.

Alas, it's a also a good example of how success is measured differently between sellers and consumers. D&D never really went into decline around here, but once you own the main rule books and some dice, you don't _need_ anything else and so game stores moved more heavily into card games where the profits were.

The d20 licensing scheme is very, very cool, although I have to admit that I still don't quite trust TSR/Wizards/Hasbro (their first reaction to the net was similar to the RIAA but then after an initial fan-relations-disaster they changed their tune and actually made an effort to reach out to the fans and address legitimate need to be able to share).

It's interesting watching a second generation of gamers start to grow up (and yes, there is a large and healthy population of them). They don't have to be saddled with as much of the "it's evil!" baggage (it's still out there, but weakened as the geek have inherited the earth)

Re:New round, roll for initiative!

[DoctorDeath]

My younger daughter (13yo) found some of my old AD&D books and has started an interest in it. She carries the monster guide with her and uses it as an inspiration for drawing. I guess the new generation will continue where we old timers left off. Happy B-day D&D!

ain't easy being a peasant

[eean]

But you know what happens to townspeople and peasants - sacrifaced to their Dragon master, killed off by a strange plague or senselessly killed by wandering adventurers.

Re:ain't easy being a peasant

[astro-g]

player 1: Arent we evil this campaign
All together: CLOUDKILL!
DM: @#$#@$ npc's, !@#$@#$ (tears up notes)

Re:Yeah - definately !

[Inn0vate]

you should clarify, you know 4 people out of at least 2000 who _admit_ to having every played D&D.

Explanation

[Anonymous Coward]

For those who haven't seen it...
part 1
Check your local P2P network for part2. Search for Dead Ale Wives Dungeons Dragons

Re:Yeah - definately !

[ahknight]

Bluff check, DC 15.

DND Humor

[Anonymous Coward]

ED: You see a well-groomed garden. In the middle, on a small hill, you see a gazebo.
ERIC: A gazebo? What color is it?
ED: (Pause) It's white, Eric.
ERIC: How far away is it?
ED: About 50 yards.
ERIC: How big is it?
ED: (Pause) It's about 30 feet across, 15 feet high, with a pointed top.
ERIC: I use my sword to detect whether it's good.
ED: It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo!
ERIC: (Pause) I call out to it.
ED: It won't answer. It's a gazebo!
ERIC: (Pause) I sheathe my sword and draw my bow and arrows. Does it respond in any way?
ED: No, Eric. It's a gazebo!
ERIC: I shoot it with my bow (rolls to hit). What happened?
ED: There is now a gazebo with an arrow sticking out of it.
ERIC: (Pause) Wasn't it wounded?
ED: Of course not, Eric! It's a gazebo!
ERIC: (Whimper) But that was a plus-three arrow!
ED: It's a gazebo, Eric, a gazebo! If you really want to try to destroy it, you could try to chop it with an axe, I suppose, or you could try to burn it, but I don't know why anybody would even try. It's a @#%$*& gazebo!
ERIC: (Long pause - he has no axe or fire spells) I run away.
ED: (Thoroughly frustrated) It's too late. You've awakened the gazebo, and it catches you and eats you.
ERIC: (Reaching for his dice) Maybe I'll roll up a fire-using mage so I can avenge my paladin...

I haven't played AD&D in a long time

[discord5]

Our AD&D sessions were always fun, back when we had too much time and no girlfriends.

DM: "You see a hallway with three barrels"
Player #1: "I walk to the barrels and pry one open"
Player #2: "No wait, you idiot"
DM: "A witch comes out of the barrel and rolls dice is preparing to cast a spell"
Player #1: "I cast burning hands and grab her tits"
DM: sighs "The hideous hag slaps you and continues her casting"
Player #2: "I apologize for my companions behavior and hit her with my longsword"

Somewhere along the line we grew up and got a life, although we all fondly remember being half drunk and playing AD&D.

It's almost as if ...

[ReagansUndeadBrain]

... some unseen force is controlling all actions in the world, determining fate by the roll of a die - an all-knowing, all-powerful being who enjoys pizza and pepsi ...

Ahother version for the Dead Alewives parody

[lesterchakyn]

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/90046

Wives?

[Himring]

An estimated 25,000 fans in 1,200 stores celebrated the anniversary Saturday

And only 2 women were pissed at their husbands cuz of the event....

Re:Old Tricks

[meringuoid]

About the bag of holding... and bearing in mind I only know D&D thanks to Bioware...

Anything placed in a bag of holding effectively weighs nothing. Zero newtons weight, zero kilograms inertial mass. So.

Take two bags of holding, two cannonballs, two buckets, two pulleys and a length of rope. Now, put the cannonballs in the buckets, and fasten the mouths of the bags over the rims of the buckets. Fasten the buckets to the rope, and run the rope over the two pulleys with one pulley above the other. Make sure that on the left hand side the bag is above the bucket, and on the right hand side the bag is below the bucket so that the cannonball drops out of the bucket and into the bag.

Now, let go of the rope. The weight of the cannonball in the left bucket pulls down on that side, and the cannonball on the right weighs nothing because it's in a BoH. So, the left side moves down, the right side up, and the pulleys turn.

Eventually the bucket on the right goes up and over the top and the cannonball drops out of the BoH and into the bucket. The reverse happens on the botton: the other ball drops out of the bucket and into the BoH. Result: the left hand side is still heavier than the right, and the pulleys turn.

The pulleys turn faster and faster, with no end in sight. Feel free to attach the mechanism of your choice to this limitless power source.

celibate D&D geeks

[ReagansUndeadBrain]

Once you've had wickedly nubile Finnish goddess of pain Loviatar (1st Edition Deities & Demigods p. 55), who can be ever be satisfied by mere mortal women again?

Re:celibate D&D geeks

[ReagansUndeadBrain]

No offense to celibate D&D geeks intended. I am a recovering D&D geek ... no comment on the celibacy status.

Loviatar, a goddess from Finnish myth, was in the AD&D Deities & Demigods manual - in fact, in her picture in the first edition she bared her breasts! This is something of an "in" joke for ex-D&D dufi like yours truly. Back in the early-80's, Loviatar's picture no doubt gave many an adolescent 'gameboy' his first glimpse of ... a woman. So what if she was a cheezy drawing ... she was hot!

The fact that she was the goddess of pain made it all the more titillating. I would try and scrounge an image, but I lost my manual years ago ...

d4, the dreaded caltrop

[Anonymous Luddite]

oh the pain...

I can remember getting up from the gaming table and finding that missing d4 with my bare left foot.

Those damn dice were small enough to hide in a shag rug and hurt like a bastard when stepped on, (especially the early ones, cuz the corners weren't blunted)

"newbie" player compared to some of you...

[NeoSkandranon]

I've played D&D for four or five years, started in 3ed, but at one point i did roll a 2ed character for a campaign played via instant messanger. I honetsly dont see how you 2e players manage (3 seems so much more streamlined to me, but perhaps mostly becaues i'm familiar with it)

Anywho, I work at a bookstore, and we'v been getting materials for giveaways and displays from WotC for a while now, and in our fantasy section (which is my domain) there's a small display with forgotten realms novels and some D&D stickers and whatnot (sadly, we don't stock the game materials for two reasons: owners afraid to attract ultraconservative attention and they just wouldnt sell well)

And by the way...if you think vi vs. emacs is a religious war, try 2ed vs. 3ed...guy I knew totally violently slammed 3 for being "simple" and overpowered and whatnot...too bad he didn't have half his facts straight /me shrugs I WILL say this though ,the 2e treasure and monster manuals (esp the demons and devils) were absolutely badass, and my group translated those into 3e as needed for extra kick

Re:For those that didn't already know

[ThJ]

He posts links to Wikipedia all the time. So what? It didn't even occur to me that Wikipedia would have an article about it. I have never played D&D (never had access to it, and I have too few friends) so that Wikipedia article actually looks interesting. Kudos to this poster. I'd mod him up too. I love Wikipedia.

Obligatory Chick

[Anonymous Coward]

here

speedy sword-draw getting in the way of intimacy?

[ReagansUndeadBrain]

Don't be ashamed! Numerous adventurers suffer from the same problem and have found a solution. Talk to your healer to see if our solution is right for you!

Re:Yeah - definately !

[Erik Hollensbe]

I have never had any problem finding players, so I guess I'm different in that regard.

My problem is finding players that don't utterly piss me off. You know, the guys that waste 30 minutes in the middle of initiative rolls reading passages from the PHB to the DM when the result is inevitably going to be what the damned DM said in the first place.

Another group that really annoys me are guys that aren't necessarily "power gamers", but don't realize that flaws in a character, well... add character. I find that most of these people have never played in a game of GURPS, where choices like this are required and a good GM will enforce that you RP them.

Oh well. To be honest, my favorite RPG has and always will be Vampire. However, especially nowadays I can't stand that group in general, to a point where a D&D game with the players I described above sounds like a joyous session in comparison. And LARP is like ripping your imagination out and replacing it with really bad acting and replacing any tactical action with a large chance of success, regardless of challenge. (as most LARP actions are decided by Rock, Paper, Scissors) And of course, LARP DM's (if you can find them) don't care about any of this.

Vampire used to be a fun political RPG that had little to do with Vampires and more to do with intrigue. Now everyone paints their face white and for some fucking reason, thinks that Vampire is a Goth RPG. Good god, I wonder if they dress in cherokee headwear for Werewolf games. Oh well.

Well, at least no one has fucked with Shadowrun. Oh, wait, someone actually needs to fuck with Shadowrun. Oh well.

Re:Yeah - definately !

[pdangel]

".... reading passages from the PHB to the DM when ...."
I need to get out of my IT career. I read that and was wondering why he was talking about "Pointy Haired Boss" being read to the DM.
??!!??11

The World of Eamon

[AtomicSnarl]

Ahhh... back in the Apple ][ days of yore... a fellow named Donald Brown created the world of Eamon, an RPG game with a fun twist -- it was also a game shell. You could get game modules from your BBS (at 300 baud on your Hayes Micromodem) or write your own modules. Your (mainly) text based game could have whatever number of rooms, treasures, monsters and allies (charisma roll please...) with whatever properties you wanted.

Tearing apart the Applesoft Basic and hacking my own weapons were a joy indeed!

And best of all, they're still out there!

Gary Gygax

[serutan]

Sadly, the article only makes a passing reference to the patriarch of D&D. I guess ownership is everything nowadays. GameBanshee.com has a nice interview with Gygax accompanied by lots of D&D artwork.

Re:Gary Gygax

[Lord_Dweomer]

I agree. I used to drive an hour every weekend up to Lake Geneva, WI to play with the Gygax family at the Game Guild. Sadly I think the store went under, and I know the Gygax's haven't exactly made it rich off D&D.

There really is something to be said for sitting at a table discussing Bigby's line of spells and finding out the guy sitting next to you played the original Bigby, and the guy across the table played the original Mordenkainen.

That was hands down the best group of gamers I've ever gamed with in my life. I'd like to give the Gygax family a big warm thank you for filling my highschool years with creativity and a place where I fit in.

D&D == Mental Exercise

[LaCosaNostradamus]

D&D was always a wonderful exercise of mentality -- specifically, visual imagination, numerical computing, and social foresight.

Science Fiction and D&D are wonderful jump-starts to young intellects. The downside to them is that they are elitist and promote insular behavior.

Now collected around age 40, the people I knew who played D&D often still do, and on average the game didn't help or harm them ... it was just another hobby in life. All those dire predictions during the 1980s about D&D's harm had come to naught ... and in fact, all those worried parents instead did far more damage than D&D ever did by working all the time instead of keeping a presence at home with their children.

GreyHawk

[Ferguson]

GreyHawk to me was the definitive setting for D&D, not Forgotten Realms. If you had read any of Gygax wonderful novels with Gord in Greyhawk then you can get an idea of how great that Campaign could have been. Sadly Gygax's involvement in the future evolution of D&D was terminated prematurely.

I don't understand why WotC doesn't invite him back. They don't even let Richard Garfield develop on MTG anymore. Why do corporations feel the need to divorce creators from their projects?

Re:GreyHawk

[cwaldrip]

Finally, someone old sk001.

I started playing back in the late 70's and Greyhawk was all there was for pre-made campaign settings. It was a great inspiration for us newbie DM's - and one that I don't think I could ever live up to.

Mystera and Forgotten Realms (majority of 1st and 2nd edition settings, respectfully) were great too.

Sigh, I have fond memories of travelling from kingdom to kingdom. Sometimes running from the authorities, sometimes working for them. But mostly working for myself.

I was never big on the hack-n-slash, although it was fun when needed. I liked the interaction and the exploration. All of that seems missing these days... games like Neverwinter Nights and Dungeon Seige just emphasize hack-n-slash. After a few hours of mowing down kobolds or goblins or the creature de jour it gets really old. Give me a mystery to figure out, or a war to prevent any day.

30yrs of dangerous sociopaths meeting in bars.

[Chas]

You'd think these countries would have figured this out by now and prohibited access to inns to anyone who can do more than pass really nasty, eye watering fart.

But OH NO!

And look at the damage these violent drunkards have wreaked!

Dragon molestation on the rise.
Millions of trolls put to the torch.
And more orcs, kobolds, and goblins killed (wholesale slaughter) than there are stars in the sky!

Damn you Gary Gygax!
Damn you Dave Arneson!

Scoliotesticularcancerous The Red
The Inferno
Scourge of Twelve Nations
Spokesdragon for Monsters Against Dangerous Hominid Infestations

Waitaminnit!

[Infonaut]

So are you saying that the D&D computer games and novels are based on some sort of weird setup where people sit together in a room and socialize while throwing dice and fondling small painted pieces of lead?

How truly bizarre.

In all seriousness, D&D deserves kudos for being the icebreaker that allowed fantasy to break into the mainstream of American culture. I vividly remember my first exposure to the game, way back in 1980. I was in Junior High School, and I encountered this odd group of kids talking about whether Asmodeus could defeat Orcus.

A few days later I found myself rolling up my first fighter (yeah, my imagination needed a kick-start) and going on my first dungeon crawl. Through D&D (and a host of other games, many of which I prefered to D&D for game mechanics) I met some of my best friends, and found an "in crowd" of my own. Of course nobody else thought of us as the "in crowd" but that didn't matter. We had a lot of fun and exercised our imaginations.

As others have stated, the specifics of Basic vs. Advanced, 2nd Edition vs. 3rd Edition, etc. don't really matter. What matters is that D&D opened the door for everything from Aftermath! to Call of Cthulhu to Neverwinter Nights and the DragonLance world.

My cap is off to Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax for getting the ball rolling, and for the countless game designers, module builders, DMs, and players who have brought fantasy to life for so many people over these 30 years.

Re:Waitaminnit!

[ReagansUndeadBrain]

Be careful, man! Everyone knows you can't utter names of the dark lords without running the risk of summoning them and meeting a untimely Lovecraftian end. Phew, I was sweating for days in a self-constructed tent of bible pages last time I said Orcus ... oh wait ... I've done it again! What was that noise? There - in the shadows - no! Dread darkness! The colors! Ahhhgghhg ...

It all depends on what you count as "any"

[Anonymous Coward]

The D&D world is now flooded with fat chicks. If you don't mind being enfolded in someone you can't lift, getting laid is a piece of cake.

Literally. Bait them with cake.

D&D Is Evil!

[serutan]

Back when the D&D-is-evil crap started, I researched news stories about teenagers who committed suicide because they got kicked off the swim team, blew their 4.0 GPA, broke up with girl/boyfriend, parents were assholes, etc. I read that the suicide rate among RPG players was below that of the general population.

That was back in the pre-Internet days when these things took time to find. Here is an article that summarizes some of that info. I used to keep some actual numbers in my head to toss out whenever some cross-waving idiot blamed RPGs for the ills of the world. If the anti-D&D crusaders actually looked up suicide statistics, they would probably be campaigning against report cards, team sports, the senior prom, and a lot of other time-honored institutions. In the real world, fantasy gaming is generally harmless fun.

Don't start planning for D&D's 35th birthday

[Dracos]

First, some history.

TSR originally published D&D. In the early to mid 90's TSR was publishing a lot of support material (modules, sourcebooks, settings) to keep sales up. As time went on, the quality and sales of this material went way down. TSR eventually owed $30 million to various debtors, primarily their printers. In 1997, WOTC bought TSR with the profits from Magic: The Gathering. Then Pokemon happened. In 1999, a struggling Hasbro bought WOTC to get the Pokemon cash cow. D&D Third Edition was released in 2000, after a year delay, under the d20 license. In 2003, D&D 3.5 was released.

WOTC had an understanding of RPGs, because the founders actually played them. Hasbro, on the other hand, seems to only understand board games for kids. Pokemon dried up, and they paniced. this is the big reason for 3.5, not "fixing things".

Not long after 3.5 came out, rumors began circulating that work had already begun on 4th Edition, and that it would not inherit the d20 license. If true, this would cripple all the companies that take advantage of the d20 license. The d20 license, by the way, is not granted in perpetuity, and can be altered at will according to the licensor's whim (look up the Book of Erotic Fantasy for proof).

Obviously, what Hasbro doesn't get is that RPG core books have a quite lengthy product cycle, but their scramble for income forces them to ignore it.

When I asked the general manager of my local game store what he though of the 4th edition rumors, the first thing he said was "I'm not going to buy it." (He was already annoyed at the existence of 3.5). Of course, he'd put it on his store shelves, he just won't personally own it.

A friend of mine, who still plays M:TG, has a conspiracy theory based on Hasbro realizing their mistake in buying WOTC and making the best of it. He believes Hasbro is quietly moving all of their debt into WOTC, and eventually plan to spin it off into its own entity or try to sell it. Good for Hasbro, but would be the end of D&D. I don't completely buy it, but the way big business is run nowadays, it wouldn't surprise me.

ErrOr

[geekoid]

"My girlfriend just got me into D & D,,,"
Does not compute. More information needed...

"I would never touch it in high school, as tabletop games were too nerdy for computer gamers to touch"

ErrOr. Does not compute.
System terminated.

Re:Yeah - definately !

[Lord_Dweomer]

I actually hate LARP for a different reason. I find that players become even worse powergamers in that setting as opposed to D&D. While there is political intrigue, eventually, everything comes down to chops, and while chops is basically rolling the dice, the only way to really affect outcome is to stack the hell out of your character.

Having played and DMed D&D for many years, I thought I had seen the worst of powergaming.....boy was I wrong......The fact that many of the rules are fairly vague makes it even worse