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A Tapeless Digital Camcorder For Your Pocket

spullara writes "I've been waiting a long time for a small, tapeless, easy to use digital camcorder. Tapes wear out, they require playback in realtime, and make producing ad hoc movies time consuming. Without these types of recorders you can forget about iVideoPodcasting. I found the Fisher FVD-C1 at an Apple Store last week and it was amazing, but it turns out there is a better one being imported from Japan, the Xacti DMX-C4 thats nearly identical, but better. You can read my review of it here (I have no association with any of these businesses). Wouldn't it be great if one of these devices had WiMAX to upload directly to the internet?"

182 comments

  1. before /.ers wake up by roman_mir · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Xacti DMX-C4 is an amazing camcorder

    As you might have read, my wife and I are having our first baby. So, of course, we needed a video camera.

    One of the biggest complaints I have with mini-DV cameras is that you copy the data off them at the same speed you put the data on them. This is a nightmare. Additionally, tapes are terribly inconvenient to search, store, carry, etc. I was down at the Apple Store in Palo Alto on Tuesday of last week and saw a new camcorder there, the Fisher FVD-C1. It was amazingly small but easy to hold, used solid state storage, and had pretty good specs. At the store it was $800, so I wandered over to one of the Macs they have setup there connected to the internet and searched to see what the real going rate was. As it turns out, it cost about the same from Amazon. Later I did some more research and found a little company in California that imports Japanese only products into the US that had another version of the camera direct from Sanyo (Fisher OEMs their product). In addition to being the same size it also had 4MP instead of 3MP, a 1.8in LCD instead of 1.5in, and some improved software. Even better, it didn't come bundled with only a 512M card, instead it was $600 and you could buy a high-speed 1G SD card from them for an extra $120 (you can get them a little cheaper elsewhere, but i wanted it all to come at the same time).

    Everything about the camera screamed buy me, so I did. I chose their cheapest shipping option (they are definitely making a bit of profit on their prices) and ordered it and a 1G card on Tuesday night. It arrived on Thursday morning, way sooner than I expected. All the manuals are in Japanese, fortunately I don't read those. Amusingly, it also talked in Japanese until I figured out you could change it to English mode by navigating the helpful pictograms.

    Hooking it up to my Mac was trivial, it comes with a USB dock / recharging station that you just connect to your computer. It has a button on it to switch it between being connected and charging. I'm not sure if it is recharging when it is connected or not. Because it is also a still camera, when you plug it in and connect it, iPhoto launches and allows you to import any photos. Immediately I realized that I would need an efficient way to handle all the clips that I would be generating and I am a little bummed that there is nothing like iClips that comes with the Mac. I have some ideas about how that would work, maybe I should put something together. Instead of making a full fledged application, I instead did some applescript to get it setup with a Folder Action. So now when I plug it in, it immediately finds all the movies, renames them from their generic names to timestamp names, copies them to my Movies directory, and then if there are no pictures it ejects the camera and quits iPhoto all in one smooth motion. In the end I want to build something that lets me drop any of the movies onto a drop site and immediately reencode them for the web and post them to my website for consumption by the ever vigilant grandparents of our daughter to be. Speaking of photos, it does a pretty good job at those as well. Not as good as my Elph, but good enough.

    There is only one thing that tripped me up that I would like to mention about the camera. While transferring movies from it I found that it was much slower than USB 2.0 should be. As it turns out, although it is spec'd for USB 2.0, it is for "full" speed, not "high" speed. So you should see transfer rates just about 500K/s. It would be much better if it were faster than that as that can mean 2000 seconds for a full 1G SD. Its still way more convenient than tape. I blame the USB committee for allowing devices to be touted as USB 2.0 when, in fact, they are the same speed as USB 1.1.

    The movie/picture demo on their Yahoo store is pretty accurate and reflects the quality of the MPEG4/AAC recording that I have gotten while using the camera.

    1. Re:before /.ers wake up by mike3411 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What an awful review. The extent of interesting product details include storage capacity and transfer speed. How about image quality? Camera features like focus, balance, etc.? Battery life? Video storage capacity (how much time does that 1gb get you)? How about the size of the camera? How heavy is it? Does it seem poorly or well made? etc. etc. This review is very sparse on details, and does little more than summarize some of the features and confirm that the camera works, more or less.

      --
      Mod me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
    2. Re:before /.ers wake up by Awptimus+Prime · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Amen to that. I read this article with my jaw dropped.

      This part makes me wonder why he complains about tape transfer speeds:

      There is only one thing that tripped me up that I would like to mention about the camera. While transferring movies from it I found that it was much slower than USB 2.0 should be. As it turns out, although it is spec'd for USB 2.0, it is for "full" speed, not "high" speed. So you should see transfer rates just about 500K/s. It would be much better if it were faster than that as that can mean 2000 seconds for a full 1G SD. Its still way more convenient than tape. I blame the USB committee for allowing devices to be touted as USB 2.0 when, in fact, they are the same speed as USB 1.1.

      Okay, so copying a DV tape @ 720p over firewire is slower than this? Not. This sort of defeats his key point in the beginning of the "review".

      For $800 you can get an excellent DV camera with near-professional quality and will last for many years. I would suggest avoiding gadgets who's only reason for being on the market is the fact it uses SD ram instead of DV tape. Maybe in 2-5 years there will be real DV cameras with 100GB of storage on them, but now isn't the time.

      Personally, I suspect the author only had experience with VHS tape and had never used DV tape as a medium. Otherwise, he wouldn't be saying USB 1.1 speeds are better than "dealing with a tape".

    3. Re:before /.ers wake up by fr0dicus · · Score: 1

      Just how quick is SD flash anyway? Would real USB2.0 make any difference? IME it's pretty slow, but that could be down to the devices I've used. Better to use a mini HD surely.

    4. Re:before /.ers wake up by qwerty1125 · · Score: 1

      If you want to edit your recording you must have a master where every frame is a keyframe or I-frame. I don't think these formats are going to replace mini-DV. Transferring from the tape to the PC via firewire has never been a nightmare for me.

      Z.

    5. Re:before /.ers wake up by xa0s · · Score: 1

      I picked up one of the FVD-C1 cams yesterday and noticed the speed with USB as well. However it was only when I was importing clips directly into iMovie. When I copied directly from the drive, the speeds were definately USB2.0 (~.5mb/sec)

    6. Re:before /.ers wake up by lavaface · · Score: 1
      Just to give folks some kind of idea, it would take (2000/60) 33 minutes to download an entire 1GB. MiniDV tapes hold approximately 14GB on a 60 minute tape. You'll get you're GB of data faster from a minidv tape through firewire; not sure how the time stacks up, but if there's a difference, then quality must compensate.

      A couple of other advatages to tapes: You don't have to clog up your harddrive with data & Apple has this neat little program, I think it's called iClips(no, wait--iMovie), that lets you effortlessly organize your video content into mini-movies for easy export to the web for Grandma

      Don't get me wrong, I'd love a solid state camera (that can transefer @ firewire 800) but the time is not now.

    7. Re:before /.ers wake up by Ranma21 · · Score: 0

      Woah I bought one of these ages ago - shortly after they were released here in Tokyo. I am surprised they are only just leaking into the US market. Anyway, I was in the same boat as this reviewer in that we had a baby on the way and wanted a tapeless (i.e. fully digital) video camera. Now listen closely slashdotters... people like him and me DONT want to video hours of mind-numbingly boring footage. What I want is something to take short clips of my kid that rarely exceed one minute. How much can this wonder toy hold? Well as you imagine it depends on your selected resolution. I choose to record in High-res (640x480 at 60fps) and so it chews memory even compressed to MP4. I get about 15 minutes duration with a 256M SD card so you'd get an hour with 1Gb. I have NEVER filled up the card. I have no issues with transfer speed, but like the reviewer suspect its not full speed USB2.0. My only complaint is that it kind sucks as a still camera. It has a nice lens and good resolution but either mine's broken, or the light metering for its flash is wrong. Close ups tend to be washed out. From a geek perspective its extremely cool. It has synthesised speech in a number of languages, is very easy to use - MUCH smaller than you think it is, and functions as a small, rugged video camera brilliantly. It is NOT the thing you'd elect to use to make a feature film with - so you purists can keep your comments to yourselves. It is just meant to capture hi-res digital video clips.

    8. Re:before /.ers wake up by juhaz · · Score: 1

      When I copied directly from the drive, the speeds were definately USB2.0 (~.5mb/sec)

      Uh? That is exactly the slow/confusing speed being complained about. 0.5M/s is definitely _NOT_ USB 2.0, which has full speed of 480Mbps == 60MB/s, 120 times faster than the speed you're getting... of course you pretty much need 7200rpm 3½ " hdd to get that kind of speeds anyway, no matter the bus, but even with flash, it should be much faster than half a meg per second.

    9. Re:before /.ers wake up by spike+hay · · Score: 1

      Why would you want the ultra-low storage capacity of a CF camcorder? Why not just get a digital camera with a movie function?

      --
      If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
    10. Re:before /.ers wake up by Wizzy+Wig · · Score: 1

      I think $500 is the price point where the purchaser will refuse to admit that he made a mistake.

    11. Re:before /.ers wake up by iamhassi · · Score: 1
      "Just how quick is SD flash anyway?"

      The newer, "high-speed" SD cards are "up to 10Mbps", roughly 2.25 megabyte/sec, much faster than USB 1.1's average 500 kbyte/sec. I have a "high-speed" SD card and I really do get 2+ mB/sec transfer rates.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    12. Re:before /.ers wake up by xa0s · · Score: 1

      Hmmm I think I wrote this before I had enough morning caffeine.. You're right of course..

      ahh much better

  2. Damn... by Cyno01 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Wish i had the money to drop on a real tapeless cam. Bought one of these last week along with a 512MB SD card for parties. Mixed reviews, but the price is right for a poor college student.

    --
    "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
    1. Re:Damn... by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      Your link is dead. What did you buy?

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    2. Re:Damn... by Cyno01 · · Score: 1

      Gateway DV-S20, got it with the acessory kit for $99.

      --
      "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
  3. 1Gb of storage on SD? by big+ben+bullet · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Nah.. why can't they just put in a decent 20Gb harddrive (like the iPod)

    That's what i'll keep waiting for.

    1. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
    2. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by chocho99 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How about this?

      JVC Everio with 4GB Microdrive. To be released any day now...
      http://www.i4u.com/article2116.html

    3. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by NanoGator · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "Nah.. why can't they just put in a decent 20Gb harddrive (like the iPod)"

      Price, weight, durability, longevity, and upgradability?

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    4. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Why no hard drive?" Battery life I would say. A HD uses a lot of it compared to an SD card...

    5. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by droleary · · Score: 3, Interesting

      why can't they just put in a decent 20Gb harddrive (like the iPod)

      What I'm waiting for is someone (maybe Apple, maybe not) to put out a widget for connecting an iSight to an iPod. For basic home movies of the kids, something that that should sell quite well if you could package it all together at $599 or so. At the higher end, why not a camcorder that simply used an iPod mini as a "cartridge". It's only 4GB currently, but their form factor makes them a really attractive option. If the regular iPod was good enough to handle LoTR, aren't a few iPod mini (is mini the plural of mini? :-) good enough to handle my budget productions?

    6. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by secondsun · · Score: 1

      I always thought the plural of mini was mini.
      *BA DUM DUM*
      Thanks folks I'll be here all night.

      --
      There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
    7. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by secondsun · · Score: 1

      I always thought the plural of mini was many.
      *BA DUM DUM*
      Thanks folks I'll be here all night.

      PS Note: I had less than one cup of coffee in me when I posted the last time.

      --
      There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
    8. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by Dashing+Leech · · Score: 0, Redundant
      is mini the plural of mini?

      Following latin convention (cactus -> cacti, nucleus ->nuclei), wouldn't mini already be the plural of minus? Hey does that mean the plural of Linus is Lini? I guess that never comes up because he's one of a kind.

    9. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by VeriTea · · Score: 1

      The problem with the psudo-latin pluralizing of words is that adding the 'i' only works for some second declension nouns that are in the nominative case. First declension nouns, third declension nouns, second declension neuter nouns, and second declension nouns not in the nominative case do not use 'i' to denote the plural. Most latin nouns are not made plural by adding 'i'. You can see a chart of latin declensions here

      --
      --- There are two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don't know it
    10. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If all that was true, battery life, weight, size, then *how the fuck does the ipod do it*

      an mp3 player has to be even smaller than a video camera since most people want to keep them in their pockets.

    11. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "ahh, but Romans go 'ome is an order, so you must use theeeee...."

    12. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by John+Sullivan · · Score: 1

      An MP3 player has to load, what, a 5Mb file from the disk? That can be done in a fraction (say, a tenth) of a second. That file will then play for the next 5 minutes or so during which time the disk can be powered down, reducing power consumption due to the disk by a factor of 3000 or so. Video bandwidth is a lot higher, even compressed, and if you're recording will likely need continuous writing to the drive. If you can expect, say, 40 hours continuous playback battery life from an MP3 player, then (using these ballpark figures I plucked from thin air, plus other assumptions such as perfectly uniform power consumption my the drive when spun up, equal battery capacity, negligible consumption from other system components etc.) that gives 48 seconds for a device that keeps the drive spinning continuously.

      --
      This is my World Wide Web of Whatever
    13. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by cerulean · · Score: 1

      I've been thinking that would be a great idea too. I t might be a fun thing to submit for the next "What Would Jobs Do?" contest. Either that, or apple should just release an iPod with a color screen that can deal with the iSight directly.

      --
      -------------------- the list is long. dirac angestung gesept
    14. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never used an iPod, but does that mean that when keeping their drive spinning continuously, such as when uploading or downloading their entire contents, their batteries only last 48 seconds?

    15. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      Or just put a camera into the iPod. Or combine it all into a phone/camera/audio/video recorder/PC with 802.11XXX, Ethernet, and Firewire capabilities and be done with it.

      Jobs doesn't want to fracture market lines right now, though. And there is a huge tape/camcorder industry that, although it knows the future will be hard drive cartriges rather than tape, won't appreciate Apple jumping the gun before they can phase out their old factory lines and recoup their investment.

      Also, there is the good ol' we're-being-robbed! "IP industry" of the MPAA and its brethren who are terrified that the video iPod will rear up soon. Don't forget, a unit that can record a video feed from a camera could also record it from any other video source... the entire DVD industry is at stake. The DVD's make more money for the MPAA members than the theaters do.

    16. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by iamhassi · · Score: 1
      "Nah.. why can't they just put in a decent 20Gb harddrive (like the iPod)"

      Price, weight, durability, longevity, and upgradability?"

      Expensive? Those micro-sized 20gig drives aren't that expensive anymore, sure more expensive than just shoving a DV tape recorder in a camcorder but when size matters the hard drive will make up for it with longer videos: if 512meg fits 21 minutes of 640x480x30fps 3Mbps quality video then 20 gigs will fit 840 minutes (14 hours) of video.

      Weight? What weight? 20gig Mp3 players weigh like 5 ounces and that's with the LCD, batteries, and all the other electronics.

      Durability? You don't think mp3 players get tossed around, probably much more so than an expensive camcorder would be, and they seem to hold up just fine.

      As far for upgradability goes just toss a SD card reader on the camera. That way when we do have terabyte SD cards your "only fits 14 hours" camcorder isn't obsolete.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    17. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by fatcatman · · Score: 1

      I'm here, I'm queer get used to it.

      So, what, you have to shove it in everyone's face?

      NEWS FLASH! We don't care whether you fuck men or women. Quite frankly we don't want to know about it. That's the problem with you homosexuals. It's not the bonking other men that bothers the rest of us, as we really don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home. It's the flagrant attitude. You wear your homosexuality like a medal of honor. It's like walking around with a big neon sign saying, "I bang men!" Then you wonder why people are offended.

      You don't see heterosexual men running around with "I bang women!" signs, do you? No, because it's unacceptable in polite society. Give it a rest already. It's nice that you're happy with your sexual encounters, but you should learn to be happy in private.

    18. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by Dashing+Leech · · Score: 1
      Wow. That's probably the most interesting thing I've ever learned that I've forgotten before I've even finished reading it.

      P.S. I did know there were common mistakes using this latin pluralization, particularly the "octopi" case, which still seems to have made its way into dictionary acceptance. But I didn't know the reasons before. Now I do, though I don't remember them.

    19. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by droleary · · Score: 1

      Or just put a camera into the iPod. Or combine it all into a phone/camera/audio/video recorder/PC with 802.11 XXX, Ethernet, and Firewire capabilities and be done with it.

      I see where you're going, but I'm not talking about convergence. I'm talking about a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. Having an iPod + iSight camcorder is a nice modular solution, not a "jam it all together" solution. Both pieces have a distinct use outside being a camcorder, and that's exactly why it's a better solution than one device trying to do everything. There is no need to carry all that junk around if you just want to listen to music.

      Jobs doesn't want to fracture market lines right now, though. And there is a huge tape/camcorder industry that, although it knows the future will be hard drive cartriges rather than tape, won't appreciate Apple jumping the gun before they can phase out their old factory lines and recoup their investment.

      Fuck'em. Jobs didn't wait for Sony to get off its ass and market the next Walkman, so I don't see why he should wait for the camcorder people to get their act together. If Apple can offer something at $599 that can match or beat what that industry offers for $999, that industry needs to die, allowing everyone else to benefit from the change.

      Also, there is the good ol' we're-being-robbed! "IP industry" of the MPAA and its brethren who are terrified that the video iPod will rear up soon. Don't forget, a unit that can record a video feed from a camera could also record it from any other video source... the entire DVD industry is at stake.

      Fuck them, too. What I was really hoping to see with the introduction of HDTV was a tuner (or DVD player, or whatever) that just feeds DV over Firewire for capture/display by any device that can handle it. Instead, DRM popped up everywhere and is set to make this particular part of the technological revolution a complete mess. Everyone is so intent on protecting their piece the pie that they're keeping consumer from buying it! The irony being that once any single person cracks the protection, they distribute it far and wide to people who wanted to pay for it, but couldn't get the thing distributed in a user friendly way. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.

    20. Re:1Gb of storage on SD? by MemoryAid · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure someone needs to mention Octopussy here.

      --
      Language students: Don't try to learn English here. This ain't it.
  4. storage size by fembots · · Score: 1

    storage size is always a problem with tapeless digital cam, I've eyeing on Sony's DVD handycam, one DVD stores 1GB, but the size of the camcorder is as big as a 8cm DVD.

  5. No Thanks... by TheMysteriousFuture · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While these sound 'interesting', I wouldn't want one. What exactly am I supposed to do if I want to go on vacation and not haul along a laptop to download the video onto?

    Or I'm somewhere and the drive is full, and I want to keep recording. With a tape-based Camcorder I'd just run to (Costco/Walmart/7-11/Target) and pickup some more MiniDV tapes or whatever.

    With this I have to upload the video onto another device...

    And I have to worry about making sure to backup the device I download the camcorder's drive to. With tapes, while they are NOT indestructible, and they DO wear out eventually, and (with analog tapes) you can loose quality when you copy them, you don't have to worry about loosing all your recordings because the latest virus wipes your hard drives and you didn't have backups.

    _MOST_ people are NOT going to be cluefull enough to make sure to backup their video from their hard drive to DVD or some other medium.

    --
    .sig
    1. Re:No Thanks... by evilviper · · Score: 1
      _MOST_ people are NOT going to be cluefull enough to make sure to backup their video from their hard drive to DVD or some other medium.

      Clueful, no. But they'll want a copy on a DVD anyhow. Most people don't happen to enjoy watching videos on their computers, and the interface for finding and selecting DVDs is easier for most people than using a computer.

      So it works out.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    2. Re:No Thanks... by Drew84 · · Score: 1

      _MOST_ people are NOT going to be cluefull enough to make sure to backup their video from their hard drive to DVD or some other medium.
      unless of course that video is of an ex-gf in a rather "exposed" pose. hey, it http://home.studieaccess.nl/wesse167/girlfriend_go t.wmv

    3. Re:No Thanks... by avi4now · · Score: 1

      This is insightful? Every single one of these concerns used to be considered obstacles to digital camera adoption, and we all know that those never took off.

      Wake up! This is the future on it's way - howabout addressing the challenges instead of complaining about them like an crotchety old coot?

    4. Re:No Thanks... by MobiusClark · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Erm, why not just carry a couple of SD cards in your wallet? Sure they cost more than MiniDVs but they're tiny. Memory cards are the new tapes.

    5. Re:No Thanks... by TheMysteriousFuture · · Score: 1

      heh...good point :)
      The big thing for me, is the fact that the hard drive is not removable. So once it's full, it's full until I download it. That said I'm sure we'll see models where you can swap the drives soon enough.

      --
      .sig
    6. Re:No Thanks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because a MiniDV SP 60 minute tape holds 8 Gibibytes? I am NOT saying it's not going to happen, It's just going to take a few more years before memory gets cheap enough

    7. Re:No Thanks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could still run to Walmart and pick up a new SD card.

    8. Re:No Thanks... by Zakabog · · Score: 1

      You buy a X'S-Drive. I think they have like 20-80 GB versions, and most of them have a slot for every time of card. I want to get one so when I'm hiking on a very long trip I don't need to carry around a laptop as well (which is light in comparison to some of my photography equiptment but it'd still be unecessary if I had one of these X'S-Drives.)

    9. Re:No Thanks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "loose" quality? Are you referring to lossly compression? Or did you mean "lose"? What a loser you are.

    10. Re:No Thanks... by NanoGator · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "While these sound 'interesting', I wouldn't want one. What exactly am I supposed to do if I want to go on vacation and not haul along a laptop to download the video onto?"

      Use the right tool for the job? Seriously, there are some things that Mini-DV is a pain in the ass for. Others, it's great for.

      I'll give you a quick example: I have video taken from my cell phone (of all places) of my dog teasing my cat. The video quality is crummy and all, but it was at my side, and ready to go. I have that funny moment now. If I had run to my video camera, I would have had to check if the tape was ready to go, power the silly thing up, and hope the animals co-operate. Okay, this isn't apples and apples, but there's something to be said for tapeless devices.

      They're not perfect. Niether is Mini-DV. That's why both are on the market. Lighten up.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    11. Re:No Thanks... by timpaton · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Somebody needs to...
      invent (or hack) an iPod-like-device to act as a portable hard disk for all these flash-RAM-hungry devices.

      I've thought of it many times for my still camera. Unless I buy lots of (expensive) flash cards, or lug a laptop with me, I can only shoot as many photos as I have room for...as we all know and have dealt with for many years already.

      What I need is a pocket-sized, battery-powered intermediate storage device. When my camera (or voice recorder or tapeless video cam) gets full, I could plug it in to the USB port of my HD tranfer unit (or stick my SD card in the slot, or whatever), hit the "transfer" button; and in as much time as it would take to reload a film camera, have an empty card ready to start shooting again.

      Back in civilisation, the HD tranfer unit could plug in like a regular USB drive...just like a flash card reader...so I can do what I normally would do with my photos/video/etc.

      As an added bonus - now that it's established technology and lots of people carry them anyway - the HD transfer unit could hold a few GB of music (in .ogg format, of course, to keep the /. zealots happy) and have a decoder chip and headphone socket and whatever else these iPod-like devices have.

      For me, being able to download data from my camera would be a digital music player's "killer app".

    12. Re:No Thanks... by TheMysteriousFuture · · Score: 5, Informative

      Already exists :)
      see steves-digicams
      Scroll down to "Image Storage Devices" for reviews of a bunch of them.

      See also the Belkin iPod Media Reader for a device that'll let you transfer all the major flash media formats to your iPod.

      --
      .sig
    13. Re:No Thanks... by TheMysteriousFuture · · Score: 1

      /me *sighs*...should have used preview...oh well.

      --
      .sig
    14. Re:No Thanks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes I did, my bad.

    15. Re:No Thanks... by timpaton · · Score: 1
      Ahem, that will learn me to do my research before posting!

      Rewind...

      The limited storage of this thing would be less of a concern if it is used in partnership with a portable HD-based bulk-storage device, of which there are many available. See parent for details.

      Apparently, you can even transfer data between various flash-cards and your iPod...so we only need to carry a small number of geek-boxes when we're out in the field!

    16. Re:No Thanks... by Ubi_NL · · Score: 1

      How about the iRiver iHP340, which acts as a USB host so you can download from your camera, AND plays Ogg:
      http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/H340.aspx

      --

      If an experiment works, something has gone wrong.
    17. Re:No Thanks... by Oliver+Wendell+Jones · · Score: 1

      I have an older JVC DV camcorder that I bought used off of ebay and I love it. It uses DV tapes, which while more expensive than VHS tapes (4 for $24 is typical), I wouldn't trade them for solid state.

      As the parent stated, it's much easier to run to a 24/7 dept. store or convenience store and buy a pack of tapes than it is to try and find a place with a good deal on solid state flash RAM.

      A co-worker just borrowed my camcorder to take to Hawaii for his wedding and he shot 37 minutes of video with my camera and a bunch more with his "King of the Toy Cams" (one of those all-plastic flash RAM camcorders like Gateway sells), which by they way, you shouldn't use sunscreen when using one of those cheap cameras, it apparently disolves the plastic and eats the paint right off of it.

      It took me exactly 38 minutes to transfer the data to my PC, 1 minute to hook up the firewire cable and get the software running and 37 minutes to transfer the data in real time. It ended up as 7.5 GB of uncompressed AVI, which indicates to me that DV will give me better quality than a flash RAM camera that tries to fit that much time into a 1 GB card.

      He tried splicing my cameras video in with his (his camera produces a proprietary .ASF video format that requires a dozen different steps and 5 different software packages to get into something usable) and the video quality difference is drastic, not only does his look pixelated and compressed, but the color and contrast are drastically different, with my camera looking more "real" than his.

      Once he got all the video put together into a 1.6 GB compressed .AVI file, I put it onto DVDs for him to send out to his family, all of whom appreciated the video.

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
  6. Many thanks! by DaneelGiskard · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I've been looking for user experiences/reviews on this little gadget for weeks. Many thanks!

    1. Re:Many thanks! by DaneelGiskard · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Uh..should have read the review before posting this... *sigh*

  7. WiMax? by nev4 · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Wouldn't it be great if one of these devices had WiMAX to upload directly to the internet?"

    Yes, because my local electric car recharging station now has a WiMax hotspot...

    1. Re:WiMax? by ka9dgx · · Score: 1
      WiMax is not a hotspot replacement. It's for Metropolitan Area Networks, not for your laptop. I'd suggest you pine instead for UltraWideBand, for fast short links to your local server.

      For internet access, WiFi outstrips DSL, Cable, and even Corporate T1s. I'm more concerned about getting honest Broadband (100 Megabits/sec or more) to the home. Cordless internet is fast enough for now.

      --Mike--

    2. Re:WiMax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Electric? That's old technology. Man, we've got hydrogen cars already. And Duke Nukem Forever.

  8. Mirrors by TheMysteriousFuture · · Score: 3, Informative
    Site's getting slow...

    Coral Cache link

    Mirror Dot link

    --
    .sig
  9. Mini-DVD Digicorders are tapeless too by Kerhop · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd rather spend $1000 on a Sony DCR-DVD301 (Google'd info) that records directly to Mini-DVD's.

  10. Points in article. by evilviper · · Score: 1, Interesting
    Tapes wear out

    And hard drives work perfectly, forever? At least you can easily swap tapes, they are fairly cheap, and most importantly, they handle shocks pretty well.

    they require playback in realtime

    Tape-based digital camcorders can do better than realtime playback.

    and make producing ad hoc movies time consuming.

    I don't believe it's merely the camcorder that makes producing movies time-consuming!

    Wouldn't it be great if one of these devices had WiMAX to upload directly to the internet?"

    GOD NO! Imagine your camcorder being slashdotted.

    Seriously though, I can't see any real use for connecting a camcorder to the internet directly. Yet the drawbacks are serious. Have we learned nothing from computer security?
    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    1. Re:Points in article. by Chanc_Gorkon · · Score: 1

      I COULD see a reason to connect a cam to the internet, but would it not be better to just have the networking in it like the Dlink cameras and the Axis webcam's? Once you have a network connection on it, the need for on board storage is minimal. All you would need is some flash rom to store a OS of sorts on the cam so it can handle all of hte nasty stuff like the networking.

      --

      Gorkman

  11. wimax? by MrSpiff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Wouldn't it be great if one of these devices had WiMAX to upload directly to the internet?"

    Wouldn't it be better if it had 802.11a/b/g so you could actually use it in the near future?

  12. Samples by DaneelGiskard · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Please put some sample movies / pictures online. Specially showing the optical/digital zoom capacity. And maybe some low light movies to see its performance there?

    I also have a question:
    It got 5.8 times optical zoom and 10 times digital zoom. In video mode the camera only uses 0.3 MP of the available 4 MP (probably a bit more for the image stabilizer?). Anyways, when using digital zoom in video mode, will it simply use the remainder of the MP to do the digital zoom and thus provide a "loss free" digital zoom? Or is it similar to image shooting using digital zoom, where the resulting picture is blurred?

    1. Re:Samples by ohdawg · · Score: 5, Informative

      Here's a direct link to a sample from the Sanyo Xacti DMX-C4 page mentioned in the article:

      4.35mb sample

      Thats assuming it still works by the time you see my reply (and it hasnt been slashdotted)

    2. Re:Samples by DaneelGiskard · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Thanks, I've known this sample for some time. A friendly guy over at dpreview.com provided some more samples in the forum (I won't link them directly or he'll probably be mad).

      But what I'm looking for are examples showing the strengths and weaknesses of this camera. Show me the full range of optical and digital zoom and how the picture gets worse with the digital zoom. Show me a movie in low light or artificial light conditions.

      This is the first "review" of this camera which I have encountered and I have been looking for some time. Unfortunately this review isn't very technical or thorough.

      I'd love to get additional user experiences/reviews/... which concentrate on the technical side a bit more...

    3. Re:Samples by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So called "Digital Zoom" is nothing more then a frigging marketing scam/stunt. Honestly you are by FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR best off disabling it on all imaging devices you use.

    4. Re:Samples by anethema · · Score: 1

      There is no 'loss free' digital zoom. The optics provide so much zoom and thats that. Any more and you are just using algorithms to enlarge the already captured image. You will lose quality.

      The problem is not that the picture gets more blurry really..although it may look like that. When a picture of say 0.4 MP is enlarged to 2MP or similar..the processor has to intelligently 'guess' on what colour pixel should be between the pixels it already has information for. The information just isnt there.

      --


      It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
    5. Re:Samples by FryGuy1013 · · Score: 1

      I think you're misunderstanding his question. He is asking if the 640x480 video images can be digitally zoomed from the 4MP camera resolution rather than digitally zooming from the original 640x480 video images. ie, when taking pictures at 640x480 resolution and the camera can handle 1280x960 images from the capturing, and digitally zooming 2X to produce a 640x480 image, if it would resample the image "losslessly," since it would only be saving to 640x480 anyways. It certainly isn't producing the pixel information from nowhere. However, I think it's more of a bandwidth issue from the imager to the memory that the video is only captured at the lower resolution and not anything else. I'm probably wrong though.

      --
      bananas like monkeys.
    6. Re:Samples by stinkyfingers · · Score: 0, Troll

      Please put some sample movies / pictures online. Specially showing the optical/digital zoom capacity. And maybe some low light movies to see its performance there?

      If I Google for 'hidden camera porn', does your site show up?

    7. Re:Samples by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it looks like you should be the one who tells us the answer to this question ;-)

    8. Re:Samples by anethema · · Score: 1

      Hmm not sure i understand what you're saying. Taking a pic at 640x480 then zooming 2x to 640x480 ?

      The thing is..you take an image at a certain resolution and if you wanna make it bigger, you have to get the information from somewhere. Nothing can help that.

      --


      It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
    9. Re:Samples by Redchrome · · Score: 1
      Hmm not sure i understand what you're saying. Taking a pic at 640x480 then zooming 2x to 640x480 ?

      No, he's asking if the camera does 2x zoom by taking the image at 1280x960, then just resampling down to 640x480 so it looks bigger.

      In the end, a wild-ass-guess says the answer is 'no'; simply because it's probably easier to build a camera with a crappy zoom feature than a good one. I could be wrong tho.

    10. Re:Samples by anethema · · Score: 1

      Yes but in this case, why wouldnt they just take the picture at 1280x960, leave it there and call it a 1.2MP camera.

      --


      It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
  13. Fisher Price by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I saw Fisher my mind went immediately to Fisher-Price. Yes, completely different, but does anyone else remember that Fisher-Price actually made a video camera at one time? It was called the Pixlevision and recorded to audio cassettes! The quality was poor, but just poor enough to look really cool. As I recall, they didn't stay on the market long.

    --
    http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    1. Re:Fisher Price by bhima · · Score: 1
      I actually used it for an art class I was taking when it came out and one of my friend's younger sibs got one... they were intersting I suppose.

      BTW... You are a freak if you like the IT colour scheme!

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    2. Re:Fisher Price by tonsofpcs · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The PXL-2000 has a sort of cult following.
      They actually used footage from some of these in some movies:

      Slacker (1991)

      Naja (1997)

      Links:
      The Pixelvision Home Page
      Pixelvision (includes tecnical details)

    3. Re:Fisher Price by eclectro · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Unbelievably, Fisher Price also made 110 and 35 mm film cameras. Normally you think of toys that a one year old would pound on and make noises, not a line of cameras.

      That's what was so amazing about the Pixlvision - that it would even make it all the way to market and actually work.

      What I loved about it is how it used a standard audio tape at high speed to produce 5 minutes of video.

      Quite strange (but cool) when you think about it.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    4. Re:Fisher Price by jcostantino · · Score: 1
      What's even more amazing about the PXL is that it made it all the way to 2004 and still works! I _SO_ wanted one of these when I was a kid... the better version with the little black and white TV monitor, of course :)

      Nowadays - they're pricey because they are so rare but you can still find one new in the box every so often on Ebay.

      I think someone even made a plugin for Premiere to PXX-ize video.

      --
      Reviews with a twist! http://www.sardonicbastard.com
    5. Re:Fisher Price by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a Fisher Price video camera. The problem is that I get the tapes mixed up with my data files from my TRS80-Model 100.

    6. Re:Fisher Price by eclectro · · Score: 1

      It's amazing how they have held their price well considering that it is a toy.

      Of course there is a large following to the toy cameras now, exploring minimalist photography. I remember when the Dianas littered the landscape, hated by all. How times have changed!

      I would have done quite well if I had of put a box or two of those away.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
  14. Sounds like a neat camcorder, But... by melekcrescent · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "I blame the USB committee for allowing devices to be touted as USB 2.0 when, in fact, they are the same speed as USB 1.1."

    I think that we should actually blame the company, who is putting labels on their product which overstate the technology. Compliance laboratories are worked pretty hard to my knowledge, and it becomes increasingly difficult to weed out products which poorly meet the specifications. I want to support a company which produces high grade equipment, not one who works just hard enough for the selling point.

    1. Re:Sounds like a neat camcorder, But... by polecat_redux · · Score: 1

      I think that we should actually blame the company, who is putting labels on their product which overstate the technology.

      A couple of years ago, I purchased a Linksys USB 1.1 ethernet adapter, and it really bothered me that it was labeled as being 10/100. It's somewhat misleading since USB 1.1 tops out at 12Mb/s. I find it difficult to believe anything I read on the packaging of most computer products.

    2. Re:Sounds like a neat camcorder, But... by Synonymous+Yellowbel · · Score: 1
      "I blame the USB committee for allowing devices to be touted as USB 2.0 when, in fact, they are the same speed as USB 1.1."

      I think that we should actually blame the company, who is putting labels on their product which overstate the technology.

      I disagree; this is indeed the USB committee's fault for being indecisive (and possibly underhanded) in their standards naming & marketing. The USB 2.0 claim on the product is perfectly accurate - it really means that the device can coexist on a hub with "hi-speed" USB devices without slowing them down, even though the product itself is only a "full-speed" device.

      USB 2.0 allows devices to run at "lo-speed", "full-speed" and "hi-speed". It is not synonymous with "hi-speed". The moral is to check for USB 2.0 if you want to run the device on a hub with "hi-speed" devices, but check for "hi-speed" if you want to make sure the device itself runs at that speed.

      steve

    3. Re:Sounds like a neat camcorder, But... by melekcrescent · · Score: 1
      Standard consumers (like our reviewer here) are easily misled by these sorts of labels.

      I'm all for mass consumer literacy in technology, and ultimately I think it is the customer buying the product that should be able to critically assess what they are buying, not be bought by the glamour of jive words.

      I still stand by my statement; although for need of a product I will often buy a product from a company that doesn't meet my standards, I want to buy from companies which independantly take real pride in their work that shows in their merchandise, not just another product which meets standards that many customers are known to be baffled but impressed by.

  15. jvc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    jvc has 2 new digicamcorders with built in 4gig micro drives. not bad for $1000

    http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?productId=PRD1207 00 0&pathId=119

  16. Re:That is what these are for... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is not like this is a new problem, digital cameras with large MP ratings have the same problem. That is what these are for:

    http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info. ph p?code=CA-VP2060HD30&category_id=339
    http://www.a uspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.ph p?code=CA-VP300HD30&category_id=339

    I have seen one before that had a CD-R burner as well.

    More at: http://www.xs-drive.com/

  17. The Pro version -- Professional Disc -- XDCam by tonsofpcs · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sony is rolling out their Professional Disc line of professional video equipment. The central part of their XDCAM tapeless system is a 'Blu-ray' disc, storing approximately 24 Gigabytes of data. Professional cameras and VTRs supporting XDCAM can use multiple formats, including DVCAM [DV25] and MPEG-IMX.
    Sony already had support for XDCam from AVID at the National Association of Broadcasters converntion in Las Vegas in April, one of the big names in Non-Linear (computer-based) video editing systems (NLEs).
    Sony plans to make computer drives able to read and write XDCAM discs, allowing Non-Linear Editing without re-capturing.

    Links:
    XDCam FAQs (pdf)
    MPEG-IMX White Paper [v2] (pdf)

  18. Re:as for reviews... by Llama_STi · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    or lack thereof! hehe... not even close ;D

  19. POSTER IS A TROLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Wouldn't it be great if one of these devices had WiMAX to upload directly to the internet?



    Although internet "backbone" pipes practically have more bandwidth than God, the LAST MILE connections DO NOT!

    Putting WiFi card in camcorders to upload directly across the internet would be a very, very, very, very, very *BAD* thing. (At least for a while).

    Timothy: I suggest you ask Santa for more "Troll Chow" for Christmas. If you run out, they are going to eat you instead!
    [Of course, that could be a good thing for the rest of the community].

    1. Re:POSTER IS A TROLL by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1
      Although internet "backbone" pipes practically have more bandwidth than God

      Got has limited bandwidth, ant that is even lower than that of internet backbone pipes? If so, then surely this bandwidth is more than exhausted by all those prayers, effectively contributing to a worldwide DoS attack on God.

      Actually that explains a lot :-)
      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  20. for best quality.... by ezonme · · Score: 2, Informative

    I use a MiniDV camera and record directly to a 30GB firewire harddisk. No need to use tapes, no need to capture. Sure, it costs a lot more, but it's a pro solution able to store two hours and half of video (DV CODEC).

  21. There is one samekind of cam, but cheaper by Skal+Tura · · Score: 4, Informative

    Mustek DV-4000, see it at http://www.mustek.com/html/prod_camra/dv4000/dv400 0.html

    I had one of those, it was really nice, i'd like better light sensitivity, but you can't get everything.

    It had quite good image quality, one socket for SD card, battery, in-build recharger etc. Night mode and other juicy features.

    It costed around 380-420euros here when i got one, altho i didn't pay that much.
    It was really great for the price, and with 512mb sd card you can shoot over 2hours of video. encodes also MPEG4/AAC.

    Only thing is: those vids didn't play in BSPlayer, on WMP they played nicely altho, after installing the WMV codecs which came on the CD. Didn't try other players.

    1. Re:There is one samekind of cam, but cheaper by big+ben+bullet · · Score: 1

      i'm not interested in players

      i want adobe premiere to handle them nicely...

      recently had some real quirks with a take from my wedding that was done by a friend of mine, he used powerdirector or something like that and delivered a wmv and later on an mpg (mpeg2)

      i couldn't import the wmv (only the first 23 seconds of footage were visible) and the mpg doesn't display in the monitor window so that narrows down my options at editing the footage like i want to

      playing both 'raw' files resulted in different kinds of experiences with different players (no sound, played to slow, etc...)

      i'm pretty stuck right now, and on top of all my XP machine is completely screwed with all sorts of video codecs... we even tried 'a capture' from the dv again on my pc iso his: no image!

      maybe it'll work again after a complete reinstall wich i plan to do one of these days

    2. Re:There is one samekind of cam, but cheaper by Skal+Tura · · Score: 1

      Ever heard of http://www.dvdrhelp.com (or whatever their name is nowadays, changing all the time but all the old ones working too).

      There is a lot of help on this kind of situations, and there is always a way to convert an video file :)

      WMV is pain in the ass sometimes, just update the codecs of it and should work fine :)

    3. Re:There is one samekind of cam, but cheaper by akgoatley · · Score: 1

      I had the same problem as you a while ago, and spent ages looking for some good video conversion software. I would recommend Virtualdub - it handles loads of formats intelligently and I've never had a problem with it. Head over to virtualdub.orgto get it.
      -Ashton

      --
      (-(friend^2))^(1/2)
      Incoming mod-bombing for having a different viewpoint, 2 o'clock! Heads up!
    4. Re:There is one samekind of cam, but cheaper by big+ben+bullet · · Score: 1

      thanks for the advice but i tried virtualdub already and it didn't read either the wmv or the mpg and warned me about some unauthorized codecs

      think i'll have to go for that complete reinstall anyway...

    5. Re:There is one samekind of cam, but cheaper by Hyler · · Score: 1

      I have a Mustek DV-5000, of which I've written a short review.

      Uses AA batteries, not built-in chargeables.

      I'm still impressed by what it can do, with that size and at that price.

      The DV-5000 is midrange, there are the simpler DV-3000 and -4000 and then the DV-5500 with tiltable screen and some more functions (like configurable (not auto) white balance I think).

      --
      It's its. They're their, there. You're your. Who's whose? A looser loser, though those two too threw through the trough.
  22. I was going to write something sarcastic too. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    and then I considered the possibilities for pornography. The revolution is truly nigh.

  23. USB Naming/Packaging issues by xmas2003 · · Score: 4, Informative
    I blame the USB committee for allowing devices to be touted as USB 2.0 when, in fact, they are the same speed as USB 1.1

    The USB folk's naming and packaging recommendations actually discourage the use of "USB 2.0" since it is confusing as heck ... but I agree with the parent that they kinda created this monster by saying that there is a "Lo-speed" and "Full-speed" USB 2.0 that are the same speed as USB1.x ... so most consumers (myself included) see USB 2.0 and unless we look carefully for "Hi-Speed", then things aren't any faster than 1.x ... which is an issue for still photography and a BIG issue for video.

    BTW, have we ever seen a first post that has been so informative - mod the parent to +10 - nice work roman mir

    --
    Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
    1. Re:USB Naming/Packaging issues by Pieroxy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A device that displays a USB2.0 and doesn't transmit faster than USB1.1 is a slow USB 2.0 device. Same as for a hard drive that is on an interface 100MB/s and can read its physical medium slower than that. It is still a drive with a 100MB/s interface.

      But the point I am trying to make is that a slow USB2 device still allows you to use other USB2 devices (at max speed) on the same hub. Where a USB1.1 device will switch all devices connected to itself to the USB 1.1 mode, hence slowing down the entire chain.

      That is a heck of a difference.

      So the label "USB2.0" should be read as "will not slow down your usb chain". The speed at which the USB2 norm is implemented in the said device is another question altogether. That is part of the device, and should be accepted like that.

    2. Re:USB Naming/Packaging issues by CountBrass · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      BTW, have we ever seen a first post that has been so informative - mod the parent to +10 - nice work roman mir

      Huh?

      Try giving credit where it's due: all roman mir did was re-post the original article without giving proper accreditation- he deserves "-1, Stealing Other People's Reviews".

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
    3. Re:USB Naming/Packaging issues by xmas2003 · · Score: 1
      Oooops ... this is what happens when you surf in the early morning - you read the linked article, go off to do other things, and then read the comments ... and forget it was basically a repost - good point countbrass and DUHHH on my part.

      pieroxy: I agree with you technically (and yes, this does make a difference - kinda similar to the 802.11g wireless gear that isn't too happy and an 802.11b client shows up), but I still believe that in the mind of most consumers, USB2.0 is equal to "Hi-Speed" and this is an example where the industry did itself a dis-service in the long-term.

      --
      Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
    4. Re:USB Naming/Packaging issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You moderators are freaks. Why did you mod this guy offtopic? He was dead ontopic, explaining that the first post is not some creative, informative post, but just a repost of the original article. This was done because others were misunderstanding. If you're going to moderate, DO IT RIGHT!

    5. Re:USB Naming/Packaging issues by CountBrass · · Score: 1

      Offtopic? Someone should give that moderator a fucking big kick up the arse.

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
  24. Not just WiFi! by drewbradford · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Why stop at WiFi for uploading to the net?

    Imagine a beowolf cluster of these!

    -- Obligatory, and the submitter asked for it

  25. CF instead of SD card by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.jvc.com/presentations/everio/

    I will wait for GZ-MC100 by JVC. CompactFlash can hold a lot more than SD.

  26. ivideopodcasting? by DrHyde · · Score: 5, Funny

    Anyone using such a horrible made-up word should be shot. If you want long compound words, German is --> that way.

    1. Re:ivideopodcasting? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.google.com/search?q=ivideopodcasting

      Your search - ivideopodcasting - did not match any documents.
      No pages were found containing "ivideopodcasting".

      Suggestions:

      - Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
      - Try different keywords.
      - Try more general keywords.
      - Stop making up words, wiseass.

    2. Re:ivideopodcasting? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      übertragenSchalenartigBefestigtVideo. es speichert von ihrer zunge aus.

  27. Oh no... by ForresterInc · · Score: 1

    While these sound 'interesting', I wouldn't want one. What exactly am I supposed to do if I want to go on vacation and not haul along a laptop to download the video onto?

    Or I'm somewhere and the drive is full, and I want to keep recording. With a tape-based Camcorder I'd just run to (Costco/Walmart/7-11/Target) and pickup some more MiniDV tapes or whatever.

    Heaven forbid you should have more than one SD card...

  28. Perhaps... by imthatguy · · Score: 0

    If most of the country actually HAD WiMax...

    --
    Did you know you can be apathetic to apathy? Not that I give a shit...
  29. Resolution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I reading the specs wrong or isn't it recording in full video resolution* ? 640x480 cannot be that funny.

    What's the point of a videocamera that isn't recording normal video? Shure its moving images but I can get that with most digital stillcameras. Maybe it's the SD card that has a bandwidth limit but why market it as a videocamera?

    However, this type of recording media is here to stay so we will hopefully see more of this type of cameras further on. but I shure expect them to have both full resolution and iLink/firewire like any other videocamera.

    *NTSC 720x486px or 520 square px / PAL 720x576px

  30. All /.ers are dying to know by notthepainter · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    my wife and I are having our first baby

    Uhhhh, about this sex thing...

    Uhhh....

    What's it like?

    1. Re:All /.ers are dying to know by cherokkester · · Score: 1, Funny

      Whatever you do, don't film it with THIS camera. Get a professional quality one with Hi-Speed USB 2.0 transfer technology.

  31. Storage medium problems........ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I would love to get a solid state camcorder,
    but I have some issues with the media it uses.

    For one, how would the camcorder handle
    read/write errors in the media, especialy
    where the file system is kept? Would it suffer from cross-linked clusters (very bad, scince
    this would foul up the recording big time), or flat out refuse
    to operate? With tape, if part of it is bad,
    you might get annoying sound bars on the video and other artifacts, but this is usualy more of a
    nusance than anything. Also, in extreme cases,
    tape can be cut/respliced so if the tape goes
    bad, you can still get most of your video off of
    it. Can't say the same with flash cards. Also,
    through user error or a hardware problem, the whole card could be wiped out (or rendered
    unreadable) in an instant, which is generaly not easy to
    do with tapes.

    I would use something like this for impropmtu
    get togethers, or to be able to whip this baby out of my coat pocket, and capture some event,
    accident/whatever (much easier than taking my
    VHS-C camcorder out of my bag, waiting for the
    damn thing to power up and engage the tape...)
    but for more important things, I think i'll stick
    with take (keeping the Flash cam in my pocket....
    just in case.)

    1. Re:Storage medium problems........ by Eric_Utah · · Score: 1

      That was a really bad Haiku.

      My head hurts now.

  32. Not something I would buy ... by maxwell+demon · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Following the link in the review and another one to the actual product description, I've found out the following facts (OK, some have also been somewhat in the review):
    • storage format is MPEG4.

      While MPEG4 may be a nice format to store finished video in, it is not a good idea to use it as a storage format:
      • If you want to cut, you don't want to have any format which contains non-keyframes
      • If you don't want to cut, but burn on DVD, you have to recode, which means some quality loss.
    • Image format 640x480

      DV has a resolution of 720x480 (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL). I'm not even sure if 640x480 is a standard DVD format (720x480/720x576 is); if not, this means recoding to different pixel size for DVD, which means quality loss independent of the encoding itself
    • No Firewire

      Ok, this point might see some disagreement, but I consider it quite unfortunate that the trend goes away from FW to USB2.

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  33. Re:FUCK YOU TIMOTHY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    rpiquepa
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    Nice one, dipshit.
  34. Panasonic have had one for a while by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Is this news because it's through the apple store?

    Panasonic have a few models out that write to SD card. Also, there's no real advantages of digital media over tape ATM and plenty of negatives.

  35. Or Better Still by TheLoneCabbage · · Score: 1

    Removable hard drive standard. Which could fit anything from a USB Flash Drive to a clam shell HD unit of your choosing.

    Granted the power consumption would be awsome, but there is room for a "Little" more weight here considering that the cam is toughted at the size of a cell phone.

    Now when can I expect to be able to write my own code for this thing?

    1. Re:Or Better Still by ksheff · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with flash memory or microdrives that use the CF interface standard?

      I wouldn't mind having a Neuros recorder. How well does it stack up against a Nomad Jukebox 3?

      --
      the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
    2. Re:Or Better Still by TheLoneCabbage · · Score: 1

      The advantage of USB Mass Storage drivers are
      A) they are universal
      B) They are already applied to a WIDE variety of storage devices. So you can add any kind of memory your want, including SD,CF and Sony Memmory stick, depending on what you already have on hand, and what your power/storage requirements are.
      C) The thing's I value most in any electronics I by are modularity and customizablity. Ex. Batteries should always be of a standard form factor, regardless of advanges of custom batterys. It's my only quam about iPods and modern mp3 players. In a years time I want to be able to replace the batteries anywhere, not just my original vendor.

      I don't know how the Neuros stacks up. I don't own one. I have an ULTRA CHEAP JumpGear. Which I like allot, but it's far from perfect (and far from an iPod).

  36. This is what I bought by Underholdning · · Score: 1

    I bought this camera specifially for it's video capabilities. It takes so-so pictures, but the video is excellent. It can record directly på MPEG which is a huge advantage. It can hold 30 minutes of high quality MPEG on the memorystick.
    Just thought I wanted to show you an alternative. I have no stocks in Sony (wish I did though ;)

    1. Re:This is what I bought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very different beast. The Xacti is a real video/still hybrid while the Sony is really a dedicated still camera with video added on.

      You can store far more video on a 1Gb card in the Sanyo/Xacti than on the Sony, zoom while filming, etc, however the still quality on the Sony is quite a bit superior.

  37. Tape too slow? No! by Bazman · · Score: 3, Funny

    This guy is impatient. He's got a whole 13 years to edit together the baby videos to make the perfect embarrass-my-teenage-kid movie.

  38. time consuming? by Kurayamino-X · · Score: 1

    i've worked with digital tape camcorders, and all you do is plug it into the computer, tell it where the different shots start and end, then batch record them to the harddrive. it really isn't time consuming as usually you have to review the shots anyway to see which ones you keep.

    and yes, the tapes degrade, but if it's recorded as digital you can record over them a stupid amount of times before you start to see any digital artefacts.

    the real time consuming part is the editing, which doesn't need the camera at all. the only time i can see the tape being hugely more time consuming then the purely digital is if you were to plug it into a vcr and hit the record button to tape the shots you want in sequence, as with the purely digital camcorder you would fast forward/rewind shots instantly, so you'd save time fast forwarding the tape...

    --
    ...I got nothing.
  39. iMovie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am a little bummed that there is nothing like iClips that comes with the Mac.

    Wouldn't iMovie work ok?

  40. Re:FUCK YOU TIMOTHY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Haha, this is truly hilarious. ROLAND PIQUEPAILLE. Ok so either this guy's account is hacked, or he's a moron. I vote for the latter.

  41. Fisher Cameracorder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I bought the Fisher FVD-C1 and I can describe the video quality with one word, Awful! Also the sound quality was the worst I have ever experienced, tons of white noise and a hissing sound any time there was silence in the shot.

    This camera comes nowhere near what Fisher describes as "DVD Quality". This camera is good for recreation and nothing more.

    One thing I'll give Fisher is the build quality, very nice.

  42. Panasonic SV-AV100 by anti-pop-frustration · · Score: 2, Informative

    Panasonic SV-AV100 does record MPEG2 on SD card.

    File size is still a problem though (even a bigger one than with MPEG4) but quality isn't as bad as MPEG4, and MPEG2 is much better than MPEG4 in term of editing and handling (you can actually USE what you record).

    But these are still expensive products, I think Id'still go the DV way.

    However, if I had the cash, I would have of these with me... the "on the go video" factor is really nice.

    1. Re:Panasonic SV-AV100 by qwerty1125 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I agree with your parent post: if you want to edit your movie the camera must use a format where every frame is a keyframe. MPEG2 is not better than MPEG4 in term of editing.

    2. Re:Panasonic SV-AV100 by jelle · · Score: 1

      About the keyframes requirements: Given the upper Mbit/s limit in the intermediate storage (on the camcorder or to the sdflash), you're better off storing it in MPEG4 with non-keyframes there, and transcoding to MJPEG or DV later instead of trying to store it in DV at that low bit rate. Ever compared a 2Mbit/s MPEG4 with a 2Mbit/s MJPEG or DV stream? The 2Mbit MPEG4 transcoded to 25Mbit DV will have much better image quality in every frame than the directly recorded 2Mbit DV stream.

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
  43. Resolution by Psychic+Burrito · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My big question ist this: With a 4 Megapixel chip, why do all of these camcorders still output standard PAL/NTSC/VGA quality and do not use the available resolution to its fullest?

    Yes there are two HDTV-MiniDV cameras out now (JVC and Sony), but the JVC has a bad contrast range while the Sony has no real 24p recording (or even 25p would fill the bill).

    When will somebody finally release a HDTV 1920x1080 camera with 24p below $3000? Or is there a way to fool these tapeless camcorder thingies in recording in a higher resolution?

    1. Re:Resolution by qwerty1125 · · Score: 1

      The lower the CCD resolution the better your picture quality will be. You camcorder always has to take 30 frames per second, not like a camera that takes stills. Check a good professional digital camera and find out how many pictures it can take in continous shooting mode. (EOS-1Ds Mark II - 4 frames/sec!) If you put more pixels into the same area then your pixels, your light sensitive are is getting smaller, one pixel receives less light. Less light is not good. Take a 1"x1" paper and draw a grid on it. One horizontal and one vertical. This will give you 4 sqares which is still good, tha paper is still white. But if you draw a 300x300 grid, then your paper will turn gray, you loose a lot of white surface. The same applies to projectors: the lower your resolution the beter the picture is. If you incase your resolution then you incrase your grid size and this way blocking more light. Z.

    2. Re:Resolution by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 1

      Check a good professional digital camera and find out how many pictures it can take in continous shooting mode. (EOS-1Ds Mark II - 4 frames/sec!)

      That's because it's busy hurling a large, physical mirror around, what with it being an SLR and all that.

      As for shutter speed, 1/30 second is considered a pretty slow exposure time - most digital cameras can go down to at least a thousandth of a second in decent lighting. For video, the amount of available light is unlikely to be a problem.

      I think the main issues with high-resolution video are about dealing with the large amount of data. If, say, a camera recorded video at 1280x960 instead of 640x480, that's immediately four times as many pixels in each frame to process. Compression hardware will need to be faster, buffers will need to be bigger, and the storage medium much larger and faster.

      Plus, after all that effort, you're unlikely to be able to play it back on anything other than a computer. What's the current state of play regarding home-made HD-DVDs and so on? High-definition tellies aren't particularly common at the moment. High-resolution camcorder-like devices might catch on one day, but not quite yet...

      --
      Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
    3. Re:Resolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus, after all that effort, you're unlikely to be able to play it back on anything other than a computer.

      Fine by me. That's all I have. While I understand the quality advantages of a plain old CRT TV monitor, if you can get a high resolution source, a computer monitor is even better. The trick is getting that high resolution source, and this would be a way.

  44. This is new? by PigBoyOhBoy · · Score: 1

    Picked up one of these little babies on eBay the other day for around $350. DVD quality MPEG2, SD media. Record time is a little short, but the camera is literally the size of a credit card (ok.. a thick credit card). These have been around for at least a year now...

  45. Um... your wife? by evilandi · · Score: 3, Informative
    small, tapeless, easy to use digital camcorder

    Er... here in Europe we call that "my phone".

    Seriously, though... you guys don't have digital flash-memory video cameras on your cellphones? WTF? Digital still cameras have been standard on cellphones for the last two years, video and flash memory last year. I don't want to start a "diss the yanks" thread, I realise there are plenty of things y'all do better, but... you chaps need to have some serious words with your cellular providers, you're not getting good handset upgrades.

    My phone has digital video camera and an MMC card offering up to 1GB of storage. The phone came free with 100 minutes of calls on a monthly £25 (US$50) contract, albeit only with a 32mb MMC card, then I purchased a larger MMC seperately for thirty quid. My missus got one too, free with contract again, here's footage she shot of squirrels in the churchyard.

    I didn't even need to change contracts. I just rang them up and said I'd quit my contract after a year unless they upgraded my handset to a video model. It was delivered next day.

    --
    Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
    1. Re:Um... your wife? by British · · Score: 1

      here's footage she shot of squirrels in the churchyard.

      Why on earth is the livejournal entry friends-only? Is it that private?

  46. Direct upload by daBass · · Score: 2, Funny
    "Wouldn't it be great if one of these devices had WiMAX to upload directly to the internet?"

    No, it would not. Why would you want to make anyone sit through your hours of uneditted footage?

    If only owners of video cameras (and those uploading _all_ their digital photos to an online gallery) learned to edit what they capture before submitting it to their friends the world would be a lot less violent place...

    1. Re:Direct upload by panurge · · Score: 2, Funny
      Absolutely.

      When tape video cameras first emerged at reasonable prices, wedding photographers were interested but worried that their profit margin would be eroded by the editing cost of getting 3 hours of footage down to the 10 mins that a third party would actually watch. But they soon discovered that Joe Public is so uncritical of seeing his own picture that he actually wanted the unedited 3 hours. Existing video cameras are basically weapons of mass boredom, and on bad days I think that a license should be required before anyone is allowed to distribute thr results beyond the immediate family.

      Yes, I'm feeling crabby. But at least I'm agreeing with someone.

      --
      Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
  47. Panasonic by PhotoGuy · · Score: 1

    I recommend the Panasonic SV-AV100. Tapeless, 512M SD Card, 20min per tape (on good quality, there is a 10min/tape setting, but I find it's overkill). Very small, great battery life, nice unit all around (and Pansonic is the one brand, with which I've never had *any* disappointment; definitely an underrated brand).

    --
    Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    1. Re:Panasonic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you've obviously never bought one of their dvd players from the past few years with motors that fail after less than year of use.

  48. A tastless cam in your pocket? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ow, it's still morning. I need my coffee.

  49. Odd WiMax reference by mattmcarroll · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure where the original poster lives. In the US, WiMax deployment is very spotty, at best. In fact, almost all point to multipoint broadband deployments are proprietary, non-WiMax solutions.

    The municipality in which I live is about to deploy a proprietary variant of 802.11a for wireless broadband - the key variation of the standard that we'll use/need is mesh capability, required because our heavy tree cover requires enhanced non-line-of-sight capability.

    WiMax has been mostly marketing hype thus far. A camcorder with WiMax would be a very strange product.

    1. Re:Odd WiMax reference by ndverdo · · Score: 1

      there is NO WiMax deployment so it can't be spotty

  50. Costs not factored in? by N+Monkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Okay, so copying a DV tape @ 720p over firewire is slower than this? Not. This sort of defeats his key point in the beginning of the "review
    Agreed.

    The review also talks of the being inconvient to store - good grief - if he's going to transfer them to the computer, why worry?

    Secondly, if you're off on holiday and want to shoot a lot of video (and didn't want to lug a PC with you) then you'd still need a few flash cards - For the price of one 512Mb flash ram you could buy a bucket load of tapes. (shrug)

  51. This will be useless by spidergoat2 · · Score: 1

    until they attach a cell phone or gameboy to it.

  52. Why not CompactFlash? hard disk? by SID*C64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I fail to understand why manufacturers keep making products like this using SD cards. They are smaller, yes, but not by much. Would make much more sense to use CompactFlash so you can at least toss in a 2 or 4GB microdrive card. I can understand SD for a still picture camera, but not for a video camera!

    And where are the hard disk cameras? Or should I say, AFFORDABLE hard disk based cameras?

  53. Naahh... wake me when they come with X3..... by danalien · · Score: 1
    When 'it/they' utilizes foveon's X3 Technology, wake me then - and I'll pony-up and go buy one the sec. it comes out :)

    if you have a decent eye, you'll see quit a subtle 'bad quality' in all of non-X3 CCD's ... due to it not beeing *of course* able to capture the some Red Green Blue wavelenghts per pixel/amount of 'photons', but instead utilizes a 'mosaic matrix' to compose the image *which is uurrrkkk, urruk, 'bad quality'* - I mean, just look at this interactive tutoral (java), see how many 'photons' a non-X3 misses? ... then think about that a camera then tries to compose a picture with that amount of 'phonon' count loss... *iirrk*

    *crawls back to his geek-hideout :)*

    PS. BTW $0.03 that this post is just one of those 'slashdot Post Ads'

    --
    I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
    1. Re:Naahh... wake me when they come with X3..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also want the Foveon chip, but I wish they would be a little higher is resolution. That day is coming though.

      As for a video camera, I am looking for a high-def HDTV camcorder. There is only 14 months of analog service left, so why would I get something that will be outdated in 2 years.

      And it should have two mini hard drives in it to act like a gyroscope.

  54. s/slashdot Post Ads/slashdot story Ads/ by danalien · · Score: 1
    *opps* I misspoke

    BTW, I wonder what 'they' take for such a 'slashdot story ad'

    guess *I'll* have to 'google' it ( as in 'search for it' not 'google-google' for it, :))

    --
    I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
  55. What About Archiving?? by CrazyLegs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm probably a bit of a Luddite here, but I still like using DV tape, if only for archival purposes. I do a LOT of taping with my Sony DV camera and I do a LOT of editting to create really boring home movies on DVD. What I like about the tape format is that I still a have "raw footage" archive of everything without a lot of management effort. Going to a tapeless camera means that I either have to buy/keep an inventory of SD cards (or whatever) for big $$$ compared to DV tape (I think) OR get into the pain that it is managing disk/optical-based archiving of my raw footage. I just find that, with tapes, I can store them away without worrying too much (yet) about managing them. When the day somes that my DV camera gets replaced by something else, I'll convert the tapes to something else (as I've already done by transferring my old 8mm tapes to DV tape). Flame away....

    --

    CrazyLegs

    "Pork!!" said the Fish, and we all laughed.

    1. Re:What About Archiving?? by WormholeFiend · · Score: 1

      I also like DV tape... I think that the best solution would be a camera with a hard drive capacity of at least 6 hours of raw video, that is about 80gb, with functions that enable you to erase stuff you wont keep.

      This should be enough for a one week vacation without having to transfer to other media, although it would be double plus good if such a camera also had a mini DVD burner on top, so you could do a rough edit (cut/paste) and burn it.

  56. RadioShack has an all Digital Camcorder for $200! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    This little bugger is great (16-2430). It takes SD cards, and records in MPEG4! How awesome is that?
    Here's the blurb from the site:
    Quit lugging around more than one camera on vacation! This tiny camera performs three functions and is incredibly affordable! It's a digital video recorder, 3.2-megapixel digital camera and a PC camera, too.

    PRODUCT FEATURES:
    • Digital video recorder records digital-quality video in MPEG4 with voice-adding component
    • 3.2-megapixel digital camera for beautiful still photos
    • PC camera can be used to send live images over the Internet or into storage
    • 1.8" TFT LCD screen to preview images as you take them and instantly show again after they're taken
    • 4x digital zoom to bring you closer to the action
    • 16MB internal memory
    • SD® card slot for additional memory
    • CD-ROM editing software including ArcSoft Video, photo editing and storage software
    • Dimensions: 4.7x2.8x1.8" (11.9x7.1x4.6cm) (WLH)
    &#149; Weight: <4.4 oz. without batteries (0.12g)

    SPECIFICATIONS:
    &#149; Sensor: 1/2.7" CCD 3.2 megapixels
    &#149; Lens: F/2.8, auto focus lens
    &#149; Sensor sensitivity: ISO 100, 200, 400, Auto
    &#149; Focus range: 10cm to infinity
    &#149; View finder: 256 Matrix/Center/Spot/AF Area
    &#149; Movie file format: MPEG4
    &#149; Movie resolution: QVGA (320x240), VGA (640x480)
    &#149; Frame rate: (320x240) 30 fps, (640x480) 15 fps
    &#149; Image file format: JPEG
    &#149; Image resolutions: 640x480, 1600x1200, 2048x1536
    &#149; Image quality: Fine; Normal; Basic
    &#149; Strobe: Auto/Off/Slow Sync/Forced+Red-Eye Reduction/Auto+Red-Eye Reduction
    &#149; Strobe range: 1.2m-2.0m
    &#149; White balance: Auto/Sunny/Tungsten/Fluorescent/Cloudy/Speed
    &#14 9; EV compensation: &#150;2.0EV-+2.0EV (9-steps)
    &#149; Self-timer: 10 seconds
    &#149; PC interface: USB 1.1
    &#149; TV out: NTSC/PAL
    &#149; Power source: 4 &#147;AA&#148; alkaline batteries or AC adapter
    &#149; Auto off: 3, 5, 15 minutes (ser selectable)
    &#149; Included in the box: camera; USB cable; TV-out cable; hand strap; pouch; alkaline batteries; user's manual; software CD-ROM with driver, Arcsoft Software, VideoImpression, PhotoImpression, Funhouse, PhotoBase

    PC SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS:

    &#149; Operating system: Windows XP/2000/98SE/ME
    &#149; CPU: Pentium or higher
    &#149; RAM: at least 32MB
    &#149; Interface: USB port
    &#149; Disk driver: CD-ROM
  57. Fisher FVD-C1 Review from Current MacWorld by Skidge · · Score: 1

    Here's a short review of the Fisher FVD-C1 from the current MacWorld article on DV Camcorders:

    The Fisher FVD-C1 is one of a new generation of MPEG-4 video camcorders that eschew tape and record directly to storage media. Like a shapely silver iPod, the lightweight, compact Fisher comes with a docking station, fits contentedly in the palm of your hand, and begs you to play. Flip open the bright, 1.5-inch LCD screen, and a cheerful female voice chimes faintly, "Camera mode." Though not much bigger than a postage stamp, the menus are easy to navigate with a beadlike joystick that you control with your thumb.

    In spite of its small size, the Fisher takes big pictures: still images at 3.2 megapixels, and video at 640 by 480 pixels and 30 frames per second. At the highest-quality settings, you can fit as many as 491 pictures, or about 21 minutes of video, on the supplied 512MB memory card. The still pictures are sharp and vibrant, but video quality is disappointing, with soft edges, banding (blocks of muddy pixels), and pixel artifacts. Lightweight camcorders like this one are difficult to hold steady, and it has no image stabilization. While the audio is sufficiently loud, we heard a whine and occasional clicking as the autofocus tried to keep up, and you can't use an external microphone.

    We'd recommend any of the DV camcorders in our test group over the Fisher for video quality, even if it means hauling around a few extra ounces. And if you're looking for excellent photographs, you can buy a good 3.2-megapixel camera and a 512MB memory card for about half its price.

  58. JVC's doing this too... by mpath · · Score: 2, Informative

    With a microdrive... looks pretty cool and ranges from 1 hour to 4 hours, depending on your quality setting.

    --
    I'm not sure what the secret to success is, but the secret to failure lies in trying to please everyone -Bill Cosby
  59. Sony DSC-T1 is a camcorder in your pocket... by patniemeyer · · Score: 1

    I almost wrote about this earlier, because it seemed to be such a secret. I bought a Sony DSC-T1 for my wife, just because it was tiny and had good image quality. What I never expected was full quality 30fps MPEG1 video. The video from this camera looks like that from a reasonable camcorder... which is amazing for its size. You have to remember that this thing is *tiny*.

    What seemed so odd to me is that Sony wasn't advertising this feature at all. In fact the box says "digital still camera" right on it... It's weird. I haven't taken anything but video with it basically since we got it.

    Now, granted with the max memory card size available at the time it only holds six minutes, but that's actually not too bad for many purposes... especially with the ease that you can drop the video onto your laptop.

    Pat

  60. "realtime" ?? by AyeRoxor! · · Score: 1

    Tapes wear out, they require playback in realtime[...]

    It's pretty difficult not to do most things in 'realtime'. The phrase you seek, my child, is 'linear access'...

  61. tapeless/wireless by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Or just Bluetooth that lets you control it with your phone, as well as upload via the phone's Net connection.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  62. What's the Point Again? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    So you should see transfer rates just about 500K/s. It would be much better if it were faster than that as that can mean 2000 seconds for a full 1G SD. Its still way more convenient than tape.

    I thought the thesis here was "get this camera because tape is too slow"? My Sony T1 stores 20 minutes of MPEG video on a 512MB card, so assuming you get 40 minutes on a 1GB card you're in for 33 minutes transfer time. For that 7 minutes you save you're in for $120 cards vs. $10 tapes, a more expensive unit to begin with, and sub-editing quality.

    Neat idea, but it doesn't sound like it's there yet.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  63. Some of the Amazon reviewers were not impressed by John+Jorsett · · Score: 1

    I recommend reading through some of the Amazon reviews. Complaints of dead pixels, noise on the audio due to the zoom motor, jerky video, etc. If I were going to try this camera out, I'd make sure I got one from a place where I could return it if it was unsatisfactory.

  64. Better tapeless cams available by Generic+Guy · · Score: 1
    While I appreciate the risk some manufacturers are taking bringing 'tapeless' camcorders to market, many of these MPEG-4 thingies don't produce great results, especially when you show the family on a TV. There are a couple (subjectively) better options on the market which do DVD quality MPEG-2. All of these are small and extremely portable.

    Panasonic SV-AV100 which I own and love, but you need to rename the .MOD files it creates to .MPG. Then they are pretty much ready to be burned to DVD. Cradle interface and software sucks (and not Mac compatible), but everyone simply uses a USB2.0 card reader.

    JVC GZ-MC100 Slightly bigger than the SV-AV100 but it has better optics and supports large CF storage.

    If you want to stick with tapes, Sony is coming out with a fairly small DCR-PC350 which still uses miniDV tapes.

    --
    { - Generic Guy - }
  65. I'm the Luddite by Timtimes · · Score: 1

    I don't own a camcorder in any format.

    --
    This ain't no upwardly mobile freeway This is the road to hell
    1. Re:I'm the Luddite by CrazyLegs · · Score: 1

      You, my friend, are fortunate. I cannot begin to enumerate how many family vacations, special occasions, etc. I have experienced solely through a vidcam viewfinder. Just when I manage to ween myself off the vidcam habit, a new technology emerges and my nasty habit returns. Digital video, DVD burners, consumer-grade editting software...bah! I've a monkey on my back that makes me spend too many hours in a dark corner watching, re-watching, and tweaking footage of my kids' birthdays past. How I long for realtime...

      --

      CrazyLegs

      "Pork!!" said the Fish, and we all laughed.

  66. Dear Slashdot Readers by spullara · · Score: 1

    I've submitted at least 5 news worthy stories and only this silly little blog entry was accepted. Now that I understand that you need something flammable, maybe I will get more stories published :) For those of you that say that this camera is not as good as a miniDV camera, you're missing the point. To those of you that think this review needs pics/movies, look at the website linked. To those of you that want more storage, buy the Belkin Media Reader for you iPod. For those of you that think its just a cool gadget and I'm a crazy early adopter, you're right. All I know is that I can take a movie and send it to friends and family much faster with this than anything else besides my iSight webcam. For those of you that say to get a camera phone, I have a 3650, movies on it suck. Maybe they will be better on the 6630 when it is released, I doubt it though. For those of you saying that WiMAX isn't released and it would be dumb to have it built in, you don't understand how things get published on Slashdot. To those of you that clicked on my Google Ads and sent me $3.38, I thank you. To those of you that question whether this was professional review, surprise, its not and I don't review products for a living. To those of you that copied the story to mirrors and into the comments, Phhhhht, I wasn't getting slow or slashdotted. I only got around 20k unique visitors.
    Sam

    --
    "If I can see farther it is because I am surrounded by dwarves." -- Murray Gell-Mann
  67. because my pocket is so worth recording in video by asscroft · · Score: 1

    yeah, check out that lint.oooh baby.

    --
    because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
  68. Quickstream DV is cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The good folks over at MCE Technologies have something similar. It's basically a firewire hard drive with some circuitry that allows it to control a DV camera. So you can record straight to the drive instead of (or in addition to) tape. If you get a big enough drive, this means you get much more capacity (although, of course, you need to do something with all that footage; you can't just keep buying drives like you can tapes; not yet, at least) and you don't have the extra step of importing footage from the camera to your favorite editing program.

    Trouble is, these things are very expensive (although they have some cool extra features, like being ruggedized and mountable on your camera and they guarantee you won't get any dropped frames). Even so, I think they should just put all the logic circuitry into an iPod accessory. It would be smaller and probably cheaper too, and I bet most gadget freaks already have a 40GB iPod that still has 30GB (about 2.5 hours of digital video) available ;-)

    I don't own one, so I don't know whether you can just replace the hard drive with a new (and bigger) one.

  69. topless... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I read this as topless rather than tapeless. I was hoping for a real slashdot headline worthy topic. My bad!