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Apple Announces New iBooks
vasqzr writes "Apple has announced new iBooks. New features include G4 processor up to 1.33GHz, built-in wireless networking capability, a DVD-burning SuperDrive and up to 1.25GB of memory. G5 PowerBooks can only be closer...They also show a single processor 1.8GHz G5 PowerMac desktop for $1,499"
These new G4 chips have support for 200 MHz busses. Why does Apple not let those of us still browsing back in the G4 section have that little bitmore performance? iBooks and PowerBooks should have 200 MHz busses all thw way across the board.
BLING BLING. Meet the architecture that's changing everything.
I bet a revision of the PB line can't be far off: the 12" PB now looks way overpriced next to the 12" iBook.
Even though I'm more of a PC guy, I have always liked Apple computers, since I don't know a LOT about them (I only fixed them now and then at a dutch apple reseller), I find them to be generally userfriendly and appealing to the eye (Except for the first I-Mac design).
:)
From what I've seen, Apple is not really afraid to take risks (hence the IMac design, 2nd IMac design and the latest IMac, OSX). I've also been quite impressed by their network/server solutions, they do seem to have a lot of horsepower for their intended job.
Even though I'm not buying one (I'm more of a PC gamer/tech than an Apple one), I hope they will do well in the future
This is the sig that says NI (again)
However, There really is no correlation between improved iBooks and the problems that apple face in getting the G5 to stay cool enough for use in the powerbook design. It's just wishful thinking.
Very doubtful.
If you had said $1000, I might believe you. Apparently you've not seen a Power Mac G5 before, nor taken a good look at its specs.
Even on the cheapest new iBook, they don't give me an option to choose a cheaper drive than the CD-burning Combo Drive. What if I fucking don't want to burn CDs on my laptop and just want a lower pricetag?
:^)
That said, these new iBooks look beautiful.
$7 is worth the increased upgradability, to me.
And it's much bulkier and uglier
Matter of oppinion.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
Could there be a more obvious troll? These posts get modded up far too often.
I love X. But it's just sooooo unfair for X to do this. Y does it so much better, I just can't believe it!
PS - I'm a huge fan of X, so what I'm saying MUST be true!
These are "low-end" consumer laptops. Equivalent x86-machines would have something like 2GHz Celeron in them. And I assume I don't have to tell you how much Celerons suck? And what about the size of the laptop? Battery-life? I think iBook would beat that lowly Celeron-laptop quite easily in those things.
So, smaller laptop with longer battery-life, AND better CPU (Pentium-M is good, but those aren't usually in low-end machines)? Sounds like a good deal to me!
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
I can build a comparable Athlon64 for about $500.
How long would it take (including the time spent shopping for parts), and how much would you expect to be paid to do it?
Make sure you spend a lot of money on the case, too.
-mkb
You basically *need* a PowerBook for video work. The video-card and bus difference is too big to contemplate using an iBook, even this updated one, for video editing. Go with the PowerBook.
From the page linked by the earlier post: All competitive offers must be presented before you place your order with Apple.
So if you're like my brother and bought an iBook two weeks ago, you're screwed.
Nowadays all but the absolute lowest-end PC laptops have dual-headed display support with separate "screens" on the built-in display and the video out port. It's in the $1000 Compaq/HPs, the eMachines and Medions and so on. About the only major-brand PC laptop you can now buy withour dual-head support is Dell's 1100-series Celeron laptop.
Apple still cripples the iBook with mirrored-only video. No desktop spanning. The Radeon chipsets they use do support it, but Apple reserves that feature for the Powerbooks.
Should $1800 really be the cost of entry for a dual-head capable laptop in 2004? And if Apple really wants to make Bluetooth ubiquitous it's probably time to make it standard equipment on every machine like they did with USB and 1394.
First off, by using educational Apple prices vs. standard Dell retail, you're comparing, well, Apples and oranges
Secondly, from everything I've read, you in no way need to get the best Intel chip available to compare with Apple in terms of speed. Everything I've read says that you need Apple's top processor/memory packages to make OSX zippy.
Plus, I have no idea what you're looking at, but Dell's chapest PC is $469 with monitor, while Apple's seems to be $799 with that ridiculous monitor built in, plus with half as much RAM.
They're not even in the same ballpark!
I don't respond to AC's.
...possible to build an El Cheapo $500 AMD/Intel boxen to match or even ouperform G5 Apple boxen, the trouble with such a box is still that IT WOULD NOT RUN OS.X. It would probably not be as stable as a Mac either.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
You are ignoring the most important part of the computer: the software. There are people who buy Macs solely because of Mac OS X. Battery life is also a huge plus for iBooks (I always get at the very least 4 hours and can push that up to 5.5 hours if I have to).
But in terms of hardware, System Shootout lists a 1.33GHz G4 as the same 1.5Ghz Pentium-M. They're two different architectures, so as always take any such comparisons with a grain a salt.
Little Bricklets
What the hell are you talking about?
You're going to tell me that every part in the bottom-of-the-barrel crap case, motherboard, etc., you're going to buy for your build-it-yourself Athlon64 are just as good as what Apple is using in the Power Mac G5? And NO, I'm not talking about things that are predictable and/or identical no matter where you buy them, like the video card and processor...I'm talking about the power supply, case, the RAM you select, the sound capability (Power Mac G5 has optical in and out, etc., so you have to take that into account), no single vendor support (some people actually care about this), no #1 Consumer Reports ranking for tech support, quality, need for repairs, etc. (some people actually care about this), no fantastic industrial design of the case in general (some people actually care about this).
Look, if you want a whitebox homebuilt, that's your business. And YOU might personally consider it "comparable", but it's not.
I went to a car dealer the other day and looked at Ford Focus, at $15,000 for the low end, that's a little expensive for me. I can build my own far cheaper purchasing the parts from a local junk yard.
$100 - Frame/chassis
$2000 - New Motor
$2000 - Pimp daddy wheels
$350 - Lawn mower sound effect muffler
$299 - Piece-o-shit Dell MP3 player
$4.99- Fuzzy dice
I am well below the 15k price for the Focus, and this car will get me to work just as fast every day, maybe faster if I supercharge it. It may not be as safe, but look how much cheaper it is.
Just remember, you get what you pay for. I bet most slashdot readers do not drive a Kia, or Hundai, yet for some reason they say Apple is overpriced. I have found Apple to be very competitive when it comes to price, I am a program manager for a technical team and order the hardware and software our engineers need to do their job. At my company, all the windows guys download their patches from macs to install on their infected pcs, the mac users seem to never be down. I think I am going to make the switch.
At the very least it was a throwaway comment that doesn't need any moderation... but a -1?
I've got to meta-moderate more...
Do you know what you get from Dell at the $999 price point? (Inspiron 1150 or 1100)
90-day warranty on some models.
7lb, 2-inch thick 'portable'
1.5 hour battery life!
2.2 GHz Celeron processor (1100), or a 2.8GHz P4 (115)
No CD-RW (1150)
Integrated graphics adapter
Let me tell you what you don't get:
BlueTooth
Firewire
AirPort wireless networking
S-VIDEO/Composite output
You can't even get a 12.1" notebook from Dell unless you pay $1,159
My Power Mac G4/400 runs OS 10.3 spiffily with only 640MB of PC100 RAM. I still use it as a file/print/test web server, as well as Civ III and email/web/IM for both my wife and me. I fully expect it to perform well in this capacity for the next few years. Besides, if you *need* more power, switch up to the Powerbook or an iMac. Or that sa-weet new G5 they just put out.
You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
Price matching is a classic price fixing mechanism. It is often done by stores like Best Buy. They make some ad like "Get a Blah Blah Blah for only $999, and if you find it cheaper anywhere, we'll match the price!" That tells all your compettitors what you are chargin and lets them know that there is no point in charging less because you will just match. As a reslt, everyone charges The Same High Price.
1.) They released a new iBook, at a lower price point, with more included than before. A fully useful Mac laptop is now $999.
2.) They released a new XServe RAID. They are competing at $2 a gig. This is much more aggressive pricing than their competitors, allowing them to edge into the enterprise based both on price and performance.
3.) They now offer a single processor low-end G5. This lowers the price of entry into their pro-range. It helps keep up with demand, given that supply of G5 processors is an issue.
What is this all about? Well, it lowers the price of entry for the platform. That is good for average consumers, and wooing people to the platform.
However, look at which units these are. The low-end G5 is a great office machine. This is the computer you put under your desk. The iBook is a great laptop for someone who already has a desktop. The XServe RAID gets Macs into the server room. This is all about the Enterprise. Go for the solid midrange, and they will come.
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I live near a big college campus. The coffee houses are packed with Apple gear both iBook and PowerBooks of all varieties. I'm actually guessing that the two factors that help the sales here are the popularity of the iPod and the ease of hookup to a wireless network. The current styles of white 14" iBook and 12" PowerBooks are the most popular. Maybe because of price, maybe because of portability (the 17" PowerBooks are great but they are bulky).
While I haven't looked in a while, I recall some points about the PowerBook seemed better than the iBook for video uses. The ability to plug in a second monitor at home was one (Final Cut loves screen space).
Powerbooks have their downside though. The metal case on mine has become very scratched and ugly (definitely get a case designed for a PowerBook to carry it in if you get a PB). The thin DVD drive right below the palm rest seems succeptible to skipping when I have my hand on the rest and typing away. The metal case does seem to offer slightly worse WiFi reception that the iBook (not by much, but it is noticable). And the plastic feet just never, ever stay on (which probably leads to more scratches on its bottom). None of these are horrible defects, but that tough, shiny motorcycle plastic body on the iBook is actually a very good thing if your machine is constantly on the move.
Honestly, I think either iBook or PowerBook will work well for college tasks of writing papers and so forth. I think the iBook is better constructed for the rough college life, but the PowerBook has a bit more oomf and video versatility that may make video editing more comfortable. Both seem quite fashionable on my campus though.
I'm curious if you've toyed with the touchpads on mac laptops. I know it sounds horribly biased, but I swear there is a difference between them, and I can't stand PC touchpads but love the touchpad on my powerbook.
Then again, I can't stand the trackpoints in general either.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
I wonder when apple will join the 21st century and start shipping with 512mb RAM as default. 256 is NOT enough, unless you only have mail and safari opened. Try running a small java desktop application and watch the beachball come to play
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
However, telling everyone that you think Mac's are a "very expensive doorstop" in a business setting just shows your lack of knowledge. I write code for a living and shudder at the thought of being forced back onto a Windows machine. Fortunately the companies I contract with don't care what operating system I use as long as the code works. There are many other people in my line of work who us Apple computers instead of Windows. Or perhaps we are all glorified graphic artists?
Apple computers have their place. I see people in every part of the corporate infrastructure using them day in and day out and very happy about it. Just because you don't feel they are a good deal does not make it so.
As for your price comparison, no one every said that Apple computers compete at the bottom of the price brackets. Never have, doubt they ever will. However, when you compare mid-range and high end systems, that is where the deal is to be made. Dell competes at the bottom, Apple competes at the top.
seSales, Point of Sale software for OS X.
Yes. Wait, No.
"Need" is one of those funny bendable words. I just helped someone who's fairly broke get a low-end iBook in order to finish postproduction on a major project (12 one-hour training videos). It's working fine, just a little slow switching in and out of Photoshop and FCP (needs more RAM and hasn't started the dual monitor hack yet).
I have friends who are getting short (20+ mins.) films into major festivals using souped-up G3 450's, and I'm busy (ahem, /. aside) running a 1hr. feature through a dual 450. Yes, faster machines make for better render times, but you need to take a break anyway (and need to respect your deadlines well). The real speed comes with knowing what you're doing, and that's wetware not hardware.
Don't believe the hype. Rendering speed is only a major issue when you have to cycle stuff out the door quickly to make the bucks. Otherwise, the interface is responsive enough, and I generally get just as much done on the G4 dual450 as I do on the spanky fast dualG5, if it's basic editing.
Damn those pesky terrorists
One thing I've noticed about "official" benchmarks is they are not very "data heavy". When you run a test with a really large dataset, the G5 seems to outperform the competition by a wide margin even with poorly optimized GCC compiled code versus optimized Intel compiler code.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
There is no reason for Apple to spend the tens of thousands of dollars it would take to engineer an optional trackpoint into the iBook just so they could offer it as a $20 option to the three people on the planet who actually prefer them to trackpads.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
Even the 14-inch has only 1024, which is simply below par IMO. Apart from that it looks like a very nice contender in the low-end portable market, but that screen would probably make me avoid it if I were shopping today. Shame; I do like that iPod-look.
sudo ergo sum
Now if you actually started to configure that 469 deal with "firewire" and other features the mac includes and a decent gfx card to match, it ends up costing more. This is known as reeling people in with "bait". That monitor they include is a piece of crap and nobody in their right mind would used that on a daily basis with it's low refresh rates that make even the Emac monitor look bad.
Did you see the low end ibook price? Got anything bad to say about it?
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Agreed. Last night I was talking to a friend who is not particularly computer savvy. However, he's a small business owner, very busy, and his time is valuable. Anyway, he was complaining about his PC, that he had gotten some kind of IE takeover spyware, and he couldn't get it back. His computer was clogged with all kinds of junk, and he'd already spent several hours trying to get rid of this thing, and was now just going to wipe his hard drive and re-install everything...essentially an evening-long process.
I said, "that's why I use a Mac." He told me he wanted a Mac, but they were $200-$300 more expensive! I just can't understand that mindset. Sure, but just think of the time savings. My Macs never break. They never get viruses. I don't have to worry about virus scanners and spyware and all the rest of that garbage. I'll crash maybe once every two months. How is all that time saved not worth a few hundred bucks, especially when a computer is vital to your business?
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Dell competes at the bottom, Apple competes at the top.
Spot on! I wish I had mod points today. You'd get a gold star.
Speak truth to power.
Question, how useable is a pII-450 (or a pIII-450 if they existed)?
I have a g4-450 w/ 512mb ram at home with one upgrade (Radeon Mac Edition, vs the stock Rage 128 Pro, cost me about $35 on ebay). The thing is snappy and perfectly responsive with OS 10.3.5 (the latest publicly released version of Mac OS). Sure some things like Garage Band completely hose it (it is below the minimum specs for Garage Band). But for every day use it's wonderful.
Windows XP is sluggish on my p4 3ghz machine with a gig of ram.
The CPUs Apple uses are simply better than Intel CPUs. I feel perfectly comfortable saying a G5 1.8ghz would smoke a p4 3.4ghz. Not to mention the better OS you get. Mac OS X is, IMHO, what Linux wishes it could be. Solid UNIX core, with a very nice GUI built on top of it. It really makes me wonder why there aren't any OSS projects out there yet with the goal of ripping off the OS X gui.
Right now I'm just waiting until the PowerBook line gets upgraded so I can drop my IBM laptop. I'd buy an iBook, but the 1024z768 resolution is a deal breaker for me. Way too small.
-matt
"Playing" does not acclimatize you to the workings of the system. If you are good at using windows and not good at using OS X, then you will be faster on windows. If you are good at using both, then you will be faster on OS X due to time saved through a more efficient and better designed user environment combined with fewer maintenance needs. Other applications will not steal focus, exposé allows you to access your needed applications more quickly. I still find it astonishing that microsoft has not streamlined the entering and selection of multiple network configuration through a simple interface. Most people don't know how or want to create scripted netsh commands. And you don't waste your time worrying about patching and rebooting for worm avoidance, keeping your lusers out of IE for spyware avoidance, maintaining firewall rules, and keeping your antivirus up to date. Windows is becoming more and more annoying because you have to manage all kinds of little things in order to keep it safe, secure and working smoothly. You don't have to worry about any of this on a mac and so your time is spent doing your work instead of maintaining the system.
As to just plugging in and working, I hope that you are behind a router or firewall or a mac/linux box sharing the connection, because just plugging an XP box into a broadband connection ill get you owned by a worm in under an hour, even if you do absolutely nothing. This is of much safer with a mac (but of course not perfectly safe with a mac or linux or anything else.) If you want to do that with XP, you'll have to get hundreds of MB of updates (I hope you download faster than the trojans find you), and turn off your network messenger to avoid the popups, shut off your uPnP to avoid vulnerabilities, and probably get a firewall set up because it's next to impossbile to close all ports on a windows box.
And when you are done with the mac, you can sell it of course. My iBook is 20 months old now and on eBay it's still going for 40-45% of what I purchased it for. Can you sell an x86 box for 40-45% of its original purchase price after 20 months of use?
Don't get me wrong, I have windows, linux and mac machines. I use each one for what it's good at. And the mac is good for getting work done. And I have found that when it comes down to doing work, if you are good at using all systems, the mac is by far the least intrusive and just gets out of the way so you can do what you're doing.
Of course, you can indeed patch up your XP box to make it almost as safe as a mac, requiring plenty of time installing the patches and installing/configuring third party software. And this takes a lot of time. How many $/h is your time worth? What's the difference in price between a mac and PC (even though it is totally an apples and oranges comparison to begin with?)
x86 is only cheaper than mac if your time has no value.
I don't know. It's a damn fine way of getting customers to tell Apple about resellers that are undercharging. ;-)
Most computers are never upgraded. Those that are are upgraded seldom have anything other then more memory or bigger HD. Memory & HD are user upgradable on the iMac.
The only real disadvantage is not being able to upgrade the graphics card. But then few people except serious gamers ever upgrade video cards these daya. And serious gamers aren't in the iMac's target demographic.
$7 does buy a much nicer machine, with a very much nicer OS.
None of the PCs in our office can not find the printers connected to the ethernet via HPJetDirect box, I have to configure them one by one by typing ips and port numbers.
All of the Macs find the printers automatically.
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
I'm guess there's probably a difference between advertising a product before its design, and advertising a product two months before its release.
There probably won't be a G5 powerbook. It is very unlikely that with the power consumption and space requirements of the G5, it could be fit into a powerbook size and weight. There might be a low voltage, scaled down version of the G5 developed that allows the processor to be more manageable and use less energy.
All your Sybase are belong to us.
So if the equivalent iMac is $7 cheaper and you don't need the extra power of a PowerMac, then buy the iMac, save $7 and sell your current monitor on Ebay for yet more savings. Problem solved. :-)
"I was horrified that the stylish and 'in' Apple notebooks didn't even have stereo speakers, what is Apple thinking"
They were probably thinking something like "why would you want stereo speakers on something that sits directly in front of you and is only 12" wide?"
I can't help you with your trackpoint fetish (I can't stand them myself, having used too many crappy worn out ones I guess) but the new iBooks top out at 1.25G (1G SODIMM, 256M soldered on).
I'm still waiting for some sort of solution to making the airport extremes work under Linux, then I'll upgrade my old 500Mhz G3.
- RustyTaco
Also on a Apple Laptop, you can't get a 1600x1200 display,
Don't need it. You can't see that. Pixels are too small.
Ultra ATA/133,
Don't need it.
True Subwoofer Sound System,
How "True" is it if it's on a laptop.
Remote Control,
You're sitting in front of it. No need for a remote.
Universal Flash Card reader....
Right, "Universal." I don't want eight more ports on my laptop just because some loser bought an xD card.
serial or parallel ports
Don't need 'em.
a 7200 or 10000rpm HD,
Don't need it. Too hot. Kills battery.
a 9800 ATI graphic controller with 256mb of Video RAM,
Too hot. Kills battery. Don't need.
a built in 10-key full size keyboard instead of wasting the space,
I'm assuming you mean "keypad." And no, I don't.
a Duel Layer DVD Writer,
In a *laptop*? You are joke.
3.4ghz Processor with Hyper-threading,
G4/1.33 GHz is faster.
up to 4GB of RAM,
Don't need it.
Remote with built in TV and TIVO type recording system,
Idiots watch TV and use Windows.
PC3200 400mhz dual channel RAM...
Don't need. Macs don't use "PC3200" RAM.
Keep in mind, those prices are including a rebate. Before the rebate the price is closer to $1000.
I recently went through the process of buying a laptop and found that Apple had very competively priced machines for what I wanted to do. I was in the $1500 price range and with an enducational discount my 12" PB was nicely priced against comparable systems from Dell, Toshiba and Sony.
"Attention Citizens, 2+2 now equals 3.947547175. Please recalibrate your equipment now" --The Computer
Many Mac users, which I am one, will rationalize the performance of Macs to no end i.e. my G3 400 is so blazing faaaaast so that it smokes a a 3.2 ghz with hyperthreading!
Go to any Mac forums (Appleinsider, Macnn, etc) you will see how people write about how each OS point release makes their system feel "snappier" because OS X, while looking great with Quartz Extreme rendering, is GPU/CPU intensive.
So while G5 may be better than the standard offerings, G5 1.8ghz cannot beat 3.4ghz P4. Show me some benchmarks instead of this "I feel" stuff.
Short answer: maybe it won't.
I use Win XP and OS X. A decade of using Windoze products has given me a kind of survival instinct, if you will, for navigating their treacherous UIs. I can fly on Windoze. It's just ingrained pattern recognition.
But I prefer OS X, even if, after two years, I'm still not as fast on it. I prefer it for the simple reason that it looks and feels more intelligent; that goes a long way in reducing distraction. And it's not all surface aesthetics: file organization is easier to accomplish with the OS X Finder than the messy, if serviceable, Windoze Explorer.
Speed isn't everything. The experience of using OS X is a relief after years in the Microsoft world.
Please stop spreading that myth -- it's no longer true. At least it wasn't when I bought my iBook in March:
12" 800Mhz iBook G4 with Mobile Radeon 9200: $1099
Gateway 200X: 1.5Ghz PM, Centrino, integrated Intel Graphics, otherwise comparable to iBook (including size/weight, battery life, hard drive, etc.): ~$1300
The iBook was cheaper!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz