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An Open Source Tipping Point?

jg21 writes "Over at LinuxWorld there's an article arguing that open source will be propelled to market predominance by the same disruptive mechanism that brought Sony, Microsoft, and others to be market leaders at the moment. 'The improbable is possible - leaders have been dethroned in the past,' writes the author, who is also apparently the producer of an upcoming documentary entitled, 'The Digital Tipping Point' to be released in September 2005. The story refers to a corroborating article from South Africa and to Clayton Christensen's Seeing What's Next which backs up this general idea."

261 comments

  1. Posted to avoid shitty formatting of page by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    From http://www.linuxworld.com/story/46891.htm?DE=1 There's an article in there somewhere. Here it is:

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    Rumors of Microsoft's Demise Are Premature...But Not Unthinkable
    "The improbable is possible - leaders have been dethroned in the past"
    October 29, 2004

    Summary
    Penguinistas have long loved to ruminate over a beer about the potential reversal of market share between Microsoft and companies offering open source solutions. But such ruminations were often left to discussions at the pub or the local LUG meeting because in a corporate business setting, even the most die-hard Penguinistas might be cautious about being thought of as wacko - at least in North American and European business settings.

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    Penguinistas have long loved to ruminate over a beer about the potential reversal of market share between Microsoft and companies offering open source solutions. But such ruminations were often left to discussions at the pub or the local LUG meeting because in a corporate business setting, even the most die-hard Penguinistas might be cautious about being thought of as wacko - at least in North American and European business settings.

    Software market watchers are now taking more serious assessments of the penguin versus butterfly competition, as Microsoft matures and Linux continues to put large growth numbers on the board.

    The more vocal observers' voices in this choir are typically located outside the United States. For example, Tectonic, an online open source magazine based in South Africa, recently quoted Novell SA systems engineer and business manager Allison Singh as going on record that Microsoft's Windows juggernaut will become an operating system for niche tasks while Linux takes over the mainstream desktop and server roles. According to Tectonic, Singh forecast that users who need specific applications written for Windows only will stick with the OS, but for most other users, the rapidly evolving Linux desktop will become the standard operating system. Here's the link for that story: www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=324.

    But wait! Tectonic calls itself "Africa's Source for Open Source

    1. Re:Posted to avoid shitty formatting of page by Ithika · · Score: 1

      Could at least have gone to the effort of cutting out the adverts when you posted the article. It's actually harder to read here than it is on the original page, where at least the adverts were in a different colour.

    2. Re:Posted to avoid shitty formatting of page by Geste · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Awwww, bugger. I thought he posted it that way to make a sarcastic point about how unreadable the LinuxWorld web site is. I mean, is their webmaster on drugs? Does Sybase pay money to be associated with such madness? And what the heck did that article say?

    3. Re:Posted to avoid shitty formatting of page by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 1

      My theory is that the unprofessionalism is intentional, an attempt to make the world of linux look unprofessional. I base this on the anti-linux bias of many of the articles.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    4. Re:Posted to avoid shitty formatting of page by toddestan · · Score: 1

      For example, in his keynote speech at the Open Source Business Conference 2004 in San Francisco, he asked the packed room of business managers how many present used Linux. All but 20% raised their hands. He then asked for a show of hands as to who uses Google. Everyone raised their hands, at which point Tim noted that the 20% who didn't raise their hands the first time are still operating under the old paradigm.

      By that logic, everyone "uses" Windows too. Visited apple.com lately? You've just used MacOS! If you use ATMs, chances are you may of "used" OS/2 or even MS-Dos. I guess I can safely say the Amiga is dead though.

    5. Re:Posted to avoid shitty formatting of page by cofaboy · · Score: 1

      dunno about the states but if your gf/wife sic has a baby look at the hardware that does the scan, In the UK it was usually amiga based

      --
      In the end, It's all bovine dung you know
  2. Could Definitely Happen by pipingguy · · Score: 5, Insightful


    If the sleeping giant that is America's small business community goes for Linux (possibly as a result of being introduced to the open source concept by Firefox), Bill has a really big problem on his hands.

    1. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Dionysus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If the sleeping giant that is America's small business community goes for Linux (possibly as a result of being introduced to the open source concept by Firefox), Bill has a really big problem on his hands.

      Why? You don't think Microsoft can adapt? It seems to me that Microsoft is the master of adaption. Why can't Microsoft go the IBM route?

      --
      Je ne parle pas francais.
    2. Re:Could Definitely Happen by goon+america · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Business goes wherever the business press tells it to go -- think "Buy internet stocks now! Will this gravy train ever end?" -- and, I don't know if you've ever read any, but is pretty well analogized to Teen Beat and its fellow travellers: dumb, marketing is job #1, idiotic hysteria, herd behavior, PR-whoring if not outright shilling for the moneyed interests. What you read in any business publication is mostly adapted from press releases. What solution is actually better from a technical point of view never comes into play -- and Microsoft knows this. They've always known it, and that's how they've gotten as far as they have. (Incidentally, this is the same way we make political decisions in this country.)

    3. Re:Could Definitely Happen by pipingguy · · Score: 1


      It might just be that Microsoft has seen this coming. It is a natural progression after all. MS could adapt but they'd have to compete or cooperate with disparate, individual Linux developers worldwide. That doesn't fit well with their current way of doing business.

      But what do I know?

    4. Re:Could Definitely Happen by pipingguy · · Score: 1


      They've always known it, and that's how they've gotten as far as they have

      Microsoft got to where they are by providing easy-to-use and inexpensive (relatively speaking) software for business. This was a revolution.

      The next revolution is about to happen as people (not you or me, we're ahead on the curve) become disillusioned and want alternatives. It's starting now with Firefox and the general public is becoming more familiar with the internet.

    5. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      possibly as a result of being introduced to the open source concept by Firefox

      Couple reasons why this is a poor comparision:
      1) FireFox is for all intent and purposes a Internet Explorer clone. It is 99% compatible with IE for most users.

      Linux (beneath the skin) is nothing like Windows and has very little compatibility.

      2) Firefox has almost zero TCO. You can download it, run it, and switch back to IE, all within the time it would take you to read the RedHat release notes. There's no situation where an OS is that cheap to use.

    6. Re:Could Definitely Happen by msully4321 · · Score: 1

      Why can't Microsoft go the IBM route? I'd be more than happy if that happened, because that would still mean Linux is predominant OS.

      --
      Slashdot: You will never find a more wretched hive of spam and zealotry. We must be cautious.
    7. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Rupy · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has so much cash sitting in the bank that even if M$ *did* somehow start turning losses from open source taking the lead they would have years to ride it out on all of their profit. That being said I dont think that open source will realisitically dominate the desktops for many years to come, some things like drivers just plain old dont work (yet) on *nix. Not to mention many applications dont function 100% (using WINE) or at all. Until granny can plug-something-in and it works it just aint gonna happen...

    8. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Jason+Earl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft will adapt, but no matter what they do their glory days are done. Heck, Microsoft routinely posts profit margins of over 80% on its MS Office and Windows businesses, and as the market moves more and more towards commodity software those profit margins are going to evaporate.

      Microsoft's real problem is its own success. Microsoft is crawling towards single digit growth, MSFT has a Price/Earnings ratio over over 30, and everywhere you look Linux is taking the profit margins out of potential Microsoft markets. Eventually the analysts aren't going to be able to spin Microsoft's lack of growth into a scenario that justifies MSFT's stock price and things at Microsoft are going to get truly ugly. Bill Gates and his cronies have structured Microsoft around the idea that the stock price always heads up. They have made stocks a huge part of their incentive plan, and everyone at Microsoft has a huge percentage of their personal wealth wrapped up in MSFT. When the stock price corrects itself then Microsoft is going to look vulnerable, and Linux will be waiting in the wings looking for wins. Every time Microsoft wants to push another upgrade on the public Free Software will be there to pick up stragglers. In the past Microsoft has been able to adapt because they had ridiculously lucrative businesses to back up their crazy plans. Microsoft has lost billions on the XBox (they lost over a billion last year alone). Instead of throwing in the towel Microsoft is instead rushing their next gen hardware so that they can throw more money down a hole. In a world where Microsoft has to lower prices on Windows and MS Office to compete with Free Software it is going to be much harder to convince investors that the billions wasted on the "next big thing" is truly a good idea. Investors are going to demand growth, and Microsoft simply hasn't delivered in recent years, and things are getting steadily worse.

      Don't get me wrong, Microsoft isn't going to disappear in a puff of smoke, but for a high flyer like Microsoft being relegated to one solution of many turning a 10% profit margin is a long step down.

    9. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Not+The+Real+Me · · Score: 1

      I look at it like this, M$ can be at 0% (zero) profit growth for the rest of eternity, since they are raking in about $5 to $8 billion in profits every quarter, earning additional profit doesn't really matter to M$ (except for maniacal egomanic reasons).

    10. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Jason+Earl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I look at it like this, M$ can be at 0% (zero) profit growth for the rest of eternity, since they are raking in about $5 to $8 billion in profits every quarter, earning additional profit doesn't really matter to M$ (except for maniacal egomanic reasons).

      Microsoft earned $0.75 per share in its 2004 fiscal year. That's hardly impressive for a stock that sells for nearly $28 a share. If Microsoft is done growing then its investors are going to be very unhappy. That's a return of just under 3% a year. A year with no revenue growth would be even worse.

      Not to mention the fact that there is little guarantee that Microsoft will continue to be able to rake in the kind of money that they are currently pulling in. Unearned revenue continues to go down, and Linux continues to gain marketshare. Eventually MSFT investors are going to get tired of waiting for the growth to return and MSFT is going to drop like a rock. When that happens Microsoft is going to *look* vulnerable. Right now the folks selling for Red Hat and Novell have to convince their clients that they aren't crazy when they forgo the safe path of purchasing Windows. Folks that roll out Linux solutions are still taking a fairly big risk. They are betting on a David facing up against the biggest Goliath in the history of industry, and the reason that the story of David and Goliath made it into the Bible was because in real life David's get squashed. Everyone likes an underdog, but only when they win.

      A serious drop in MSFT would be hitting the behemoth right smack between the eyes, and such a drop is overdue.

    11. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Microsoft routinely posts profit margins of over 80% on its MS Office and Windows businesses

      This is largely due to MS's product strategy -- if they think of a new idea, it appears "for free" in the next version of Windows or Office rather than a seperate revenue product. Rather than a weakness, this seems more like a strength -- that MS can and does use its Office/OS monopolies to defeat competitors.

      In otherwords, Linux can be as cheap as can be, but if it doesn't "integrate" well into Microsoft infrastructure, it will be stuck on the margins forever.

    12. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Eric+Damron · · Score: 1

      "In otherwords, Linux can be as cheap as can be, but if it doesn't "integrate" well into Microsoft infrastructure, it will be stuck on the margins forever."

      I'm not sure if Linux will need to play Microsoft's game for long. It is just starting to take on a life of its own. If Microsoft continues to play dirty, the day will come when the Open Source world will flip Microsoft the bird and just do its own thing.

      --
      The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
    13. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Jason+Earl · · Score: 1

      This is largely due to MS's product strategy -- if they think of a new idea, it appears "for free" in the next version of Windows or Office rather than a seperate revenue product. Rather than a weakness, this seems more like a strength -- that MS can and does use its Office/OS monopolies to defeat competitors.

      You have a funny idea of "for free." Last I checked, Microsoft charged handsomely for these new versions of their software. Heck, that's one of Microsoft's biggest problems. They have over half of their customers on previous versions of their software. In many ways Office 97 is a much bigger Microsoft competitor than anything in the Free Software world. Not only does Microsoft have to worry about Free Software, but it also has to compete with previous versions of their software that are "good enough" for their low end users.

      Here's what the article had to say about this phenonmenon;

      In a nutshell, Christensen and his co-authors argue that when modular commodity products such as the Linux kernel are "good enough" for the jobs of price-sensitive market tiers, those commodity products are positioned to take market share from integrated solutions that "overshoot" the performance demands of customers in any given market tier, particularly the more price-sensitive lower market tiers.

      The important thing to remember is that Microsoft has made a living out of targeting low-rent customers and then growing their solutions into general solutions. I remember when PCs were laughable toys, when nearly every business in America used Lotus 1-2-3 and WordPerfect, and when no one thought that businesses would replace perfectly good Netware and UNIX boxes with Windows NT Servers.

      The solution that is "good enough" today for a small business will (if it survives) become good enough tomorrow to run a big business. Linux, and the rest of the well-known Free Software projects like Apache or Samba are perfect examples of how this works.

      In otherwords, Linux can be as cheap as can be, but if it doesn't "integrate" well into Microsoft infrastructure, it will be stuck on the margins forever.

      When all that is keeping people from migrating to your competitor are the costs of switching then you are as good as dead. Free Software gets better and better all of the time, and Microsoft can't ever rest on its laurels. Every few years Microsoft has to get you to rip out all of their software and replace it with new versions, and that gets harder and harder to do with every iteration. Meanwhile Linux waits in the wings picking up stragglers.

      And like I said in my original post, Microsoft can't afford to simply do as well as they are doing now. If Microsoft doesn't *grow* the Wall Street is going to crucify it.

    14. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > You have a funny idea of "for free."

      You have an unfunny idea about saracasm.

    15. Re:Could Definitely Happen by westlake · · Score: 1
      Microsoft is crawling towards single digit growth.

      kinda hard to see in a company whose quarterly revenues are up 12%, to $9.2 billion dollars, a company which has a profit margin of 22%, no debt, and $64 billion in cash. MSFT: Profile for Microsoft

    16. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Decaff · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Right now the folks selling for Red Hat and Novell have to convince their clients that they aren't crazy when they forgo the safe path of purchasing Windows. Folks that roll out Linux solutions are still taking a fairly big risk.

      I really don't understand this comment. Since when has using Windows for major server systems been considered 'safe'? Unix (now Linux) and Novell have long been the established systems in this area, and Windows has been battling to make an impact.

      As for 'risk' in rolling out Linux solutions - I don't understand that either. Providing you choose a system that is reliable and has support, where is the risk? What is this risk supposed to be?

    17. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's like they always say... once you're at the top, there's only one way to go -- down.

    18. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      The only interest I know that is over 3% these days is the one from my mortgage...

    19. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Jason+Earl · · Score: 1

      Yes, Microsoft and the analysts that cover Microsoft have done an excellent job of spinning the fact that Microsoft's profit growth was the smallest it has been since the company went public. Yes, it is true that Microsoft has a fat pile of cash (although about $30 billion of that cash is going to be distributed via dividends over the next several years). Microsoft is an excellent company, in every senses of the term, but all of the numbers that you talked about have been priced in to MSFT (and then some).

      Microsoft simply isn't a company that is worth it's current Price/Earnings ratio of well over 30. Not if 2004 is supposed to be a good year with forecasts down for 2005. No matter how you slice it to deserve its current price Microsoft has to produce a lot more growth than its current paltry amount. When you are as big as Microsoft growing enough to deserve a P/E ratio of 30 is ridiculously hard. Like the article said, Microsoft has gone ex-growth.

      And that's going to work in Linux's favor in the broader marketplace.

    20. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Jason+Earl · · Score: 1

      In the old days the mantra was "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." In more modern times that has switched to "Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft."

      Let's face it, in many business environments Microsoft is the de-facto choice for basically any software. You point to Novell as an example of an "established" system, but Novell got absolutely slaughtered by Windows NT 4.0. Windows (and now Linux) have threatened Novell so much that they have essentially thrown Netware to the wolves and remade themselves as a Linux company. Likewise UNIX was losing marketshare to Windows long before Linux made a big splash.

      Since the release of NT 4.0 Windows has had a lot of momentum in most businesses. Linux, on the other hand, has been perceived as a "hackers OS" built by tinkerers, students, and hippies. The business perception of Linux has come a long way over the years, but you can't really pretend that there aren't lots of IT folks that are still openly hostile to Free Software.

    21. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Conor+Turton · · Score: 1
      Couple reasons why this is a poor comparision: 1) FireFox is for all intent and purposes a Internet Explorer clone. It is 99% compatible with IE for most users.

      ROFLMAO. And IE is a clone of Netscape which was a progression of Mozilla which FF is based on.

      --
      Conor "You're not married,you haven't got a girlfriend and you've never seen Star Trek? Good Lord!" - Patrick Stewart
    22. Re:Could Definitely Happen by spagetti_code · · Score: 1
      P/E (stock price over earnings) ratios are not the main driver in American tech stocks. It was prior to the mid 90s. However, in the dot-com era, people ignored profit and focused on capital gains - ie the increase in share price to vaidate their purchase. They made money on the rise in share price and ignored profits and dividends. People didn't care at all about profitablity.

      Now P/E ratios are a (perhaps small) part of the reason a share is purchased, and the ability to turn a profit is another portion of the reason. Profit is now important - viability is important, which is a good thing.

      Lets look at M$. Their stock price has tanked since 2000 (allowing for their 2:1 split in 2003), and really been static since 2001. (see etrade. Their profit is very good, they are viable, but their dividends are anaemic. Their stock price is holding because people (IMHO) expect their share price to increase - that is they are purchased for capital growth.

      Personally, I think they are going to clean up. I think Linux is a very long way from being ready for the desktop, no distro really gets it yet (shrugs on flame retardant suit, see below*). Pirate copies will decrease as they tighten licensing, revenue from desktop installs will increase strongly and desktop (OS + Office) is where they earn most of their dosh.

      Dont expect them to be down and out yet.


      (rant)
      *Problems with Linux on the desktop:

      why offer the average joe 6 different versions of apps - he just wants one

      which distro is right for me - damn thing is getting fragmented.

      "...and you just (sequence of line noise) to install the driver, then..."

      not everyone thinks that source code is a good thing in their hands.

      for all the ills of "c:\Program Files", and least I know where to install a program. In linux, this is not clear; is it /var, /opt, /usr, /usr/bin, /etc... In many cases the correct answer is all of the above. The answer also differs by distro. eeeewwwwwww
      (/rant)

    23. Re:Could Definitely Happen by hachete · · Score: 1

      it's business risk versus technical risk. Business risk includes securing ip issues, maintenance contracts, goodwill etc. You speak of technical risks.

      h

      --
      Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
    24. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>ROFLMAO. And IE is a clone of Netscape which was a progression of Mozilla which FF is based on.

      How is IE a clone of Netscape? It never was.

      Both IE and Mozilla both had their origins in Mosaic but to say IE was a clone of Netscape is totally inaccurate.

      Still, never let the facts get in the way of blind predjudice huh?

    25. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Decaff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In the old days the mantra was "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." In more modern times that has switched to "Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft."

      Not in the server room. Microsoft has made little impact in the enterprise server market. Just look at the phenomenal dominance of Apache as a web server, for example.

      You point to Novell as an example of an "established" system, but Novell got absolutely slaughtered by Windows NT 4.0.

      Actually, it didn't. Netware has continued to grow and expand it's market - its widely used. Its just that Windows NT expanded faster. NT certainly slaughtered some systems, but many of those were Microsoft - it was a grown-up replacement for Windows for Workgroups.

      Windows (and now Linux) have threatened Novell so much that they have essentially thrown Netware to the wolves and remade themselves as a Linux company.

      This isn't true. Novell have certainly not given up on Netware - Netware 6.0 was a success for them, and they have plans to launch Netware services hosted on Linux. Linux is certainly not a replacement for Netware - its a new platform on which to provide it.

      Likewise UNIX was losing marketshare to Windows long before Linux made a big splash.

      Again, this is not the case. UNIX was hardly ever used as a small-office server system. The NT/UNIX supposed conflict was a good example of Microsoft spin on the situation. NT was a replacement for Windows for Workgroups, smaller Netware installations and various peer-to-peer networking systems. There might have been a chance of NT having an impact on UNIX if Microsoft had continued with supporting NT on different processors - one of the strengths of UNIX, but they just gave up on this.

      The business perception of Linux has come a long way over the years, but you can't really pretend that there aren't lots of IT folks that are still openly hostile to Free Software.

      They aren't hostile to 'Free' Software - they have been hostile to the supposed lack of support. IBM, RedHat and SuSe have largely overcome that objection.

    26. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Decaff · · Score: 1

      it's business risk versus technical risk. Business risk includes securing ip issues, maintenance contracts, goodwill etc. You speak of technical risks.

      No, I'm also talking about business risks. I can see there might have been a risk in switching to supposedly unsupported Linux systems years ago, but with the current backing of large companies behind Red Hat and SuSe there is little risk.

      As someone who has been dealing with Microsoft systems for over 25 years, I would say that its their products that have the risks.

    27. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Decaff · · Score: 1

      Sorry - could not resist replying...

      (rant)
      *Problems with Linux on the desktop:

      why offer the average joe 6 different versions of apps - he just wants one


      You get the version of the app that comes with the distribution. Most people just use Open Office for example. Generally, there are only a couple of reasonable competitors in a market: Evolution and KMail for example. Pretty much like Windows.

      which distro is right for me - damn thing is getting fragmented.

      There aren't that many for mainstream use. Fedora or Mandrake for desktop for example.

      "...and you just (sequence of line noise) to install the driver, then..."

      That is a years old problem, surely. I just put the Fedora CD-ROM 1 in, and wait. It does a better job of driver installation that some OEM Windows setups.

      not everyone thinks that source code is a good thing in their hands.

      Why would desktop users ever need to see source code?

      for all the ills of "c:\Program Files", and least I know where to install a program. In linux, this is not clear; is it /var, /opt, /usr, /usr/bin, /etc... In many cases the correct answer is all of the above. The answer also differs by distro. eeeewwwwwww

      Why do you need to know? On good Linux boxes, you just select the package to install and wait.

      I think you are mixing up desktop users with hackers and developers?

      I have had many experiences moving Windows users to Linux desktops and I think its definitely ready for commercial desktops: As long as you have a reasonable menu system, some icons, some apps that do general office work, e-mail, browsing, printing etc, what is the issue? In most cases, I have found that people can switch with virtually no training, and its a hell of a lot easier to maintain and support than the Windows equivalents (I talk from years of bitter experience).

    28. Re:Could Definitely Happen by budgenator · · Score: 1

      It's more a matter of percieved risk rather than risk, Linux is percieved as being written by a bunch of social miss-fits rather than the reality of being written by software engineers sponsored by major corperations.
      Many managers have a risk-adverse, rather than risk-management, management style; therefore any risk is percieved as dangerous, especialy if there isn't a multi-billion dollar corp to scape-goat.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    29. Re:Could Definitely Happen by wobblie · · Score: 1
      why offer the average joe 6 different versions of apps - he just wants one

      Why does windows offer the same thing? eudora? mozilla? outlook? outlook express?

      which distro is right for me - damn thing is getting fragmented.

      they are all compatible to a large extent. Some are more geared to ease of management (debian comes to mind) and some are popular due to vendor requirements (red hat). In the end, it doesn't really matter.

      "...and you just (sequence of line noise) to install the driver, then..."

      No modern distro has such problems, unless you are using cheapo hardware that has replced hardware functionality with software, incurring an operating system (and hence driver) dependency. Don't buy cheap crap.

      not everyone thinks that source code is a good thing in their hands.

      Just let the experts handle this issue, ok? go back to using your computer.

      or all the ills of "c:\Program Files", and least I know where to install a program. In linux, this is not clear; is it /var, /opt, /usr, /usr/bin, /etc... In many cases the correct answer is all of the above. The answer also differs by distro. eeeewwwwwww

      This is not only a non-issue, it is stupid. Linux has a Filesystem Standard for a reason. Binaries go in /bin or /usr/bin, logs go in /var/log, etc. While coming from windows, this might seem bizarre to you, it is only because windows is designed poorly. Read up on what the various root level unix directories are for and it will make perfect sense as to why they are separated out that way. Windows is the mess and is horribly wrong here.

    30. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only life was that simple...

      # Joe User installs his distro

      # Joe chats on GAIM to his friends

      # 12 months later, Yahoo!/MSN/Foo changes protocol; GAIM breaks

      # Joe needs new GAIM. His distro no longer has updates

      # Joe looks for RPMs around the Net, but there are none for his distro

      # Joe tries compiling from source (sigh), but the latest GAIM requires newer versions of libgtk, libatk-pango, libfoobar-0.2

      # Joe's only other option is to upgrade his entire distro. Wait, didn't Linux users sneer at Windows users for the "6m/yearly reinstall"?

      # Joe gives up and goes back to Windows, where he can install 2004 programs on a 2000 OS without any hassle.

      Oh, and the funny thing is, that's a true story. And this was a guy to whom I recommended Linux. There are BIG problems with Linux on the desktop; this is just one.

    31. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      THis is true.

      NT was touted as a "Unix Killer" and it completely failed to make any impact on the Unix market...

      However that wasn't were the explosive growth comes from, it came from PC's. And that's the wave that Microsoft has ridden to were it is today.

      In fact that's one of the success stories about linux, it's making it in a very strong way in the Unix market,. Windows is just more embedded, so this stuff takes longer.

      Remember that NT only has 50% market share in the server arena. The other 50% is Unix + Linux + the remnents of Novell Netware.

    32. Re:Could Definitely Happen by westlake · · Score: 1

      in a very uncertain economy Microsoft continues to show extraordinary strength. how many companies in the technology sector will end the year in a better position than when it began?

    33. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the big breakthrough with Firefox is psychological. At present most people believe that Microsoft IS computing, and you can't trust any substitutes. But then people use an open source program and discover it not only works, it is actually better (and in a number of ways). That makes them much more open to looking at oss for other applications.

      Maybe, for instance, they take a look at openoffice and discover how useful it is to be able to easily produce pdf's. If you think of oss catching on all at once, it seems impossible. It is a lot easier to do in stages.

    34. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Decaff · · Score: 1

      therefore any risk is percieved as dangerous, especialy if there isn't a multi-billion dollar corp to scape-goat.

      IBM supports Linux. How big do you think IBM is?

    35. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Decaff · · Score: 1

      # Joe gives up and goes back to Windows, where he can install 2004 programs on a 2000 OS without any hassle.

      Oh, and the funny thing is, that's a true story. And this was a guy to whom I recommended Linux. There are BIG problems with Linux on the desktop; this is just one.


      Here is a true story:

      Joe (name changed) installs an OEM version of XP on his desktop. He normally uses Linux, but games require Windows. He does this at the weekend. XP requires registration. Microsoft UK is busy, and its suggested he waits until monday. In an angry mood, he waits.

      Some time later, having patched and updated his XP, joe is playing a game. The game seized as a video driver crashes Windows. Having not saved his game, Joe gets upset.

      There are BIG problems with Windows on the desktop - these are just a couple.

    36. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Jason+Earl · · Score: 1

      Lets look at M$. Their stock price has tanked since 2000 (allowing for their 2:1 split in 2003), and really been static since 2001. (see etrade. Their profit is very good, they are viable, but their dividends are anaemic. Their stock price is holding because people (IMHO) expect their share price to increase - that is they are purchased for capital growth.

      You are missing the point. The "magic force" that makes stock prices go up is the promise of future growth. Profits are well and good, but Microsoft made a profit of $0.75 per share last year. Even if Microsoft distributed all of their profits as a dividend MSFT would still have yielded less than 3%, and that's without dividend taxes, and Microsoft says next year is going to be worse. My point is that without a *lot* more profit Microsoft isn't going to tempt any sane investor at their current price point. The days when people rooted for stocks like they root for college football teams are over. EPS is king.

      So the question becomes where exactly is Microsoft going to get the profit increases that it needs to justify its current price point? You believe that Microsoft is going to achieve greater profitability by putting their thumb down on software piracy. I've lived in the third world, and I personally think that would backfire badly. In countries where $100 is a good monthly salary the price of Windows is a significant cost. Linux may be more harder to use that Windows, but it isn't *that* much harder. If Linux catches on in the third world then Microsoft is in big trouble. I think that the best Microsoft can do on this particular front is use tricks like the Windows Starter Edition knowing that people are still going to wipe the Starter Edition and replace it with the real thing. At least that is better than having computers pre-loaded with Linux.

      Besides, I don't think that Microsoft's paying customers are going to appreciate being treated like thieves.

      Microsoft is already cleaning up. The question is whether or not they are going to grow significantly over the next few years. I don't see how that is likely to happen. I think that MSFT is overpriced and a risky investment. I also think that when MSFT does go down significantly it will open a lot of doors for Linux that are currently closed.

    37. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Jason+Earl · · Score: 1

      Microsoft went from owning none of the server market to being the biggest server player, and it continues to grow faster than the market. That's a very interesting definition of "completely failed."

      This is how it works. The solution that is "good enough" for low end work, and has the best price is the system that ends up winning in the long run. The stuff that the cheap bastards are running today will rule the world tomorrow. That's why Microsoft has done so well over the years, and it is also why Linux has shown such legs.

    38. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Jason+Earl · · Score: 1

      Yes, lots of people think that Microsoft is likely to return to being a growth stock. Of course, lots of people thought that Lucent was a good buy at $50 too...

      That's the problem with companies with a high P/E ratio. When investors do get wary the bottom drops out.

    39. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Decaff · · Score: 1

      Microsoft went from owning none of the server market to being the biggest server player, and it continues to grow faster than the market. That's a very interesting definition of "completely failed."

      It depends on what you call 'server'. There is very little in common between a local filestore and print server (where Microsoft dominates) and an enterprise server handling hundreds or even thousands of accounts and users on tens of processors.

      The first market was dominated by small server Operating Systems and peer-to-peer arrangements like Windows for Workgroups. UNIX was almost never used for this. This is where Windows (and also Linux) is growing hugely these days.

      The second market was dominated by proprietary operating systems on mainframes and 'midicomputers', and is now primarily UNIX. Linux is definitely having an impact here. Windows isn't. This is a growth market, and is likely to expand faster as hardware gets cheaper and Linux evolves.

      Its like comparing bicycles with trucks - both are 'transport', but to say that bicycles sales are impacting the truck market simply because more are sold is nonsense.

    40. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Jason+Earl · · Score: 1

      Yes, I understand the difference. I also just know that historically the low end of the spectrum has *always* pushed the the expensive high end stuff towards the margins until there isn't enough market to sustain it. That's what happened to Cray, that's what happened to the LISP machines, that's what happened to the minicomputers, and it is what is happening to VMS, mainframes, and now commercial UNIX. As Linux (and even Windows) becomes "good enough" to do more high end jobs it is stealing market share from the more expensive alternatives. This encourages more investment in Linux (and the commodity hardware it is running on) which in turn fuels more market share grabs. Now, you can discount Microsoft's hold on the server market if you will, but the fact of the matter is that Microsoft servers are everywhere and every year they get more and more capable. Plenty of "old hand" admins have never really used anything but Windows, and technologies like Active Directory and Exchange have been pushed right into the heart of the enterprise. If it wasn't for Free Software Windows would clean up and UNIX would be dead.

    41. Re:Could Definitely Happen by jc42 · · Score: 1

      If ... America's small business community goes for Linux ...Bill has a really big problem on his hands.

      We might also note the comment in the article that much of the "movement" is outside the US. And, of course, linux originated outside the US.

      As an American programmer, I've been a bit bemused by the several projects that I've recently worked on that were "outsourced" to us by non-American companies who were migrating to linux.

      In each case, the sales approach that persuaded their management was "Do you really want to trust your company's data to closed-source software from a big American company that doesn't have your interests at heart?" The marketing guys say that questions like this are more and more producing a lot of nervous, scared looks on management faces.

      Part of this is that people are starting to get the message about spyware. And even a cursory web search turns up story after story about spyware embedded in Microsoft software. Who know what data is being passed back to some MS site, to be sold to other interested parties?

      Remember a year or two back, when they were caught taking things (mostly images) from msn.com customer web sites and using them in ads? Public outrage made them back down, but it was obvious from their response that they weren't at all apologetic, and considered it their legal right.

      It doesn't take a software genius to figure out that there's really only one solution to such threats. If you care about your data, and especially if you don't want your data being seen by competitors, you'd be smart to stick with open-source software. And hire a few good hackers to study it, to make sure that nobody has snuck something in that you didn't order.

      American companies may not be so smart, and we could end up with Microsoft being important in the US but nowhere else. After all, the US is still using the English "Imperial" system of measurements, long after even the Brits have (mostly) abandoned it.

      (Also, it's hard to imagine most American managers going for something that was done by a Finnish student and a gang of his friends, no matter how good it is. There's a lot of idiocy in this business. ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    42. Re:Could Definitely Happen by Decaff · · Score: 1

      technologies like Active Directory and Exchange have been pushed right into the heart of the enterprise. If it wasn't for Free Software Windows would clean up and UNIX would be dead.

      Actually no: Linux/UNIX is a rapid growth area, and I would hardly call a directory service and single-platform e-mail 'the heart of the enterprise'.

      The truth is that there is a solid core of IT people who have years of experience of Windows and don't trust it anywhere near critical or large-scale services. We have seen the disasters that can result when others try this.

    43. Re:Could Definitely Happen by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 1
      Actually if you read the fact finding from the court cases against Microsoft in the U.S. during the 80's and 90's you'll find the death of that myth. MS got where it is by piggybacking MS-DOS onto the pre-existing IBM monopoly, then leveraging that into other desktop monopolies and eventual control of the OEMs.

      If MS loses control over the OEMs before they can extend its monopoly to irrevocable proprietary file formats for audio/video or for productivity suites, then it's over. These days, if it's pre-installed, Linux is easier to use than MS Windows. Home users don't care what's on the box they buy, just that they can surf the web, listen to music and send e-mail .

      --
      Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
  3. does MS care by cinnamon+colbert · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe MS has already recognized that the OS is a commodity product, and they don't care if linux succeeds. MAybe MS has already put the OS on a low priority, recognizing better ROI from office or integration of entertainment. In the long run, all technology becomes a commodity, and only monopolies (att ) or truly exceptional companies (ibm) who can reinvent themselves. can command high prices for more then a few years. So, in that sense,the demise of MS is inevitable. My dad always used to talk about the linotypers union: in the 40s and 50s, they were gods: nothing got printed without thier ok. today ?

    1. Re:does MS care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Certainly they care ($10 billion / quarter would make even the most jaded person care); but I think you're right in that they recognize that OS's are commodities.

      Even Oracle recognized the fair price for a similarly old and commodotized technology.

      Even with operatings systems as commodities, though, Microsoft's demise isn't inevitible, though. There still is bleeding-edge-high-tech software.

      Until I can walk up to my computer and say "Remember that picture of the cute looking monkey I took on that long ago vacation? Print a picture this big [gesturing with my hands] and send it to my mom", there's still more software to be written.

    2. Re:does MS care by agent+oranje · · Score: 2, Informative
      Maybe MS has already put the OS on a low priority, recognizing better ROI from office or integration of entertainment.
      This is what I hope for. I don't think that Microsoft software is particularly a Bad Thing(tm), but the operating systems are complete crap. I'd much rather use Microsoft Office than OpenOffice or an open-source equivalent... It may be "bloated," but it's still gobs faster, and much more polished. For that matter, the best version of Microsoft Office is for OSX... which shows that Microsoft is definitely able to develop good software for alternate platforms. Why not Linux?

      The XBox, I hope, is Microsoft's way of weening children off of the Wintendo and onto a machine that is intended for gaming. XBox 2 sounds like it's trying to be the all-in-one digital entertainment center. So, either Microsoft is realizing they should focus on things other than their OS, or they're just trying to get a monopoly in a new market. But given that their OS is many, many years behind in terms of security and stability - and always will be - I hope that they start encouraging people to move to better platforms... but I think that migration will happen slowly on its own.

      --
      -agent oranje.
  4. Ah, bugger. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I copied a few of the ads at the start as well. Sorry, folks.

  5. make your opinion known when vendors come in! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I had whiterock networks and luminous networks reps in last week. They were demoing their new oc-48 gear. I made comments with both groups asking why an open source browser with a java plugin was not certified with their webgui. I asked the other vendor why they did not have a client server software for linux or freebsd.

    I told them windows was unacceptable and solaris is not what we use. (Although the soft switch uses dual sol servers for the db.)

    anyway. complain loudly to these vendors that they
    need to support what we use in the data center.

    1. Re:make your opinion known when vendors come in! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I remember around 1997 some LabVIEW reps from National Instruments came in to our lab. They were showing a new version of their product. I asked when they'd have a Linux version... [blank stare] and one finally said something to the effect: It isn't cost effective to make a Linux version because no one will use it.

      Well, look at what we have from National Instruments today: http://www.ni.com/linux/lin_lv.htm/

      Never say never

  6. You Win by dhoonlee · · Score: 0, Troll

    I am won over by the sheer persuasive logic of your argument. I SUBMIT!

  7. Rose-coloured glasses by coupland · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've seen many articles like this in the past that suggested there was some "boiling point" at which Linux / OSS / Free Software would be unstoppable and would take off like wildfire. They are fun to read and dream about, but they don't reflect a realistic view of the software scene. Linus has often said that Linux on the desktop would be a long, tiring battle. I agree. We will never hit a point where Windows will suddenly be rejected and open solutions will become the de facto standard. I think we need to fight for every % of market share we get. It won't be easy but -- to be honest -- I find the challenge pretty damn fun. :)

    1. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by 0racle · · Score: 1

      Maybe they hope that if they say it enough, one year they might be right and they can hold themselves up as visionaries or something.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    2. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree... I don't think we'll ever see Linux just spread like a wildfire on the desktop. But someone commented here some time ago that we'll just wake up one day and notice Linux is everywhere. It will creep in and be assimilated slowley. It may never be a 95% desktop share but I could certainly be a significant mumber.

    3. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by iabervon · · Score: 1

      The "boiling point" idea makes more sense between applications than with the first application. Once everyone uses at least one OSS program, they'll be much more likely to use more, just because the licenses and process will be familiar.

    4. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The tipping point exists in many things. Once you get over a certain % then you're no longer the also-ran and people start taking you seriously.

      The tipping point for voters in this country (UK) for example, means that the 3rd party (Liberal Democrats) only has to get around 25% of the votes before their number of seats climbs considerably... that's a statistical anomaly that comes out of the quirky way we do our elections here (eg. in a pure 2 party race it would be theoretically possible to get 49% of the vote and zero seats. You can get 74% of the vote and lose, by the same measure... real world statistics of course aren't that clean).

      If Linux got to 20% market share for example, would there be games for it? You bet - who's going to turn down that kind of cash. Would there be preinstalled machines on the high-street? Very likely.

      Windows went through the same thing - for long time everyone wrote for DOS because nobody had Windows... then a point was reached where it became economically viable to write for Windows, and DOS went into decline quite rapidly.

    5. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by noselasd · · Score: 0

      These 20%, will they magically happen all of a sudden ?

      Didn't think so.

    6. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with the Windows/DOS comparision is that it was more of an exception than a rule. Windows (as crappy as it was) provided enormous benefits that just weren't avaiable with DOS. DOS locked people into a 1981-style computing experience, while Windows unlocked 1991-style hardware. DOS wasn't "good enough" and Windows was.

      Meanwhile, Linux only provides marginal benefits over Windows (and has it's deficits as well). On the desktop there's very little case that Linux would provide users with some capability that Windows does not have.

      The historical record is that being "better than Windows" never got OS/2 or even MS' own WinNT over ~5% markethshare. And OS/2 / NT had positive stuff going for it, while Linux case for the desktop seems to be based on "Windows suxx0rz".

    7. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by grcumb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Linus has often said that Linux on the desktop would be a long, tiring battle."

      I agree with Linus' assessment, inasmuch as making Linux an ideal desktop environment is concerned. But I don't think it has any bearing on the tipping point argument.

      The longest, most tiring battle of my 15 year career in IT has been supporting Windows under increasingly difficult conditions. I now refuse to recommend or administer Windows servers, and I provide my customers with compelling reasons for this stance. The vast majority of them are receptive to my reasoning and discover for themselves that Linux servers are more cost-effective.

      The huge upsurge in Windows exploits and the daily onslaught of malware and spam gives consultants like me all the fodder we need to argue for FOSS on the desktop too. Note that I'm not saying 'Linux on the desktop'. This is a transitional game we're playing, and conversion to Linux-based desktop systems won't be immediate. It will happen, though, unless something comes along that's got more momentum and greater robustness than Linux.

      It's critical to note that Microsoft has never written robust, secure software. Pronouncements to the contrary notwithstanding, it doesn't know how to do it. As software security becomes a dominant criterion for product selection, Microsoft's appeal diminishes. More and more frequently, organisations are willing to compromise on polish and integration in exchange for lower overall running costs.

      This is precisely the wedge that Linux - and FOSS in general - need to break into the market. There will be a tipping point past which it becomes easier to move to FOSS than to remain with MS. The real question is when this will occur. You seem to be suggesting that this will be a long time in coming. I believe that rampant security problems will bring about the change much sooner than many suspect.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    8. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by einhverfr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Meanwhile, Linux only provides marginal benefits over Windows (and has it's deficits as well). On the desktop there's very little case that Linux would provide users with some capability that Windows does not have.

      That depends heavily on your environment, my friend.

      In a typical workstation/server model, you are right. But what if I want all my programs to run on differnet servers for centralized administration and have them share your home directory? Not so easy on Windows unless you start running lots of add-ons. Now, what if I still want my email client to run on the laptop so I can work when I am not on the intranet? Breeze in Linux, not so easy on Windows (yes, there is folder synchronization, but CodaFS is better).

      Now lets look at a different angle-- as part of a business pilot program I need to install a small database server and add a bunch more software to some of the workstations. Open source provides for very little beurocratic buyoff while proprietary software licensing will slow this process down.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    9. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure there's some deployment models that favor the Unix Way. There's others (ActiveDiretory, ZEN, etc) that favor the Windows Way. In either case, we're talking about efficency improvements for large corporations and nothing revolutionary that would cause the "tipping point".

      Even if you are talking about licensing costs/hassles, with RedHat/SuSE it's really 6 of 1, half-dozen of the other. That's the real world for the Linux desktop.

    10. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by einhverfr · · Score: 1


      Even if you are talking about licensing costs/hassles, with RedHat/SuSE it's really 6 of 1, half-dozen of the other. That's the real world for the Linux desktop.


      Even if I have RHEL, there is nothing to stop me from putting either PostgreSQL on one of the desktops or installing Fedora on a few more systems to run something else. There is a substantial difference here.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    11. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You asked a question, then answered it. Kind of like what we do inside our heads when we aren't paying attention to the voices outside.

      Your post poses a question with an obvious answer. Perhaps next time your post will be more entertaining:

      At what point of market share percentage does it "tip"? Is there a "tipping" point? Since it is in the interest of most of us here on slashdot, what can we do to make it a smooth process? speed it up? or steer it on the right direction? If one happens to have some information, then provide it. Even post links to sources related to the subject.

    12. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      Much as I'm not sure if Linux is anywhere near ready yet, it _is_ possible that a cheaper product tips a giant by virtue of price alone.

      Unix itself got to be a default standard for one single merit: it was cheap.

      Bearing in mind that Unix in the beginning was not what you call Unix or Linux nowadays. It was more or less a toy OS, compared to what mainframe or even mini OSes offered at the time. If you did only a feature comparison between Unix and pretty much any mainframe offering, Unix was not going to win.

      It had a major advantage, though. It was cheap and it ran on cheap hardware. A university or business could easier afford smaller computers running Unix, than a top-of-the-line IBM mainframe. In fact they could afford several Unix computers for the price of an IBM mainframe.

      And universities to this day are still churning _legions_ of people who got trained on Unix. Guess what that meant for the companies that then hired them. Not only advocacy but a clear case of "it's cheaper to just use Unix than retrain everyone." (The same point nowadays used to justify Windows.)

      And Microsoft itself got where it is by dethroning giants in much the same way.

      E.g., at the time Windows NT stole the fileserver market from Novell, I used to talk to a bunch of IT people. Partialy over the fido-net, partially family friends. (Both my parents are professional nerds.)

      Being still (A) a student, and (B) a nerd, I had of course no sense of economics. So for me it was baffling that someone would prefer the primitive NT to the superior Netware. And FFS, NT needed more RAM and generally a more expensive computer too!

      So they patiently explained that, for what they needed, NT was (A) enough, and (B) much cheaper. Even after you factored in the extra RAM for NT, it still ended up way under Novell's price. So they bought NT instead.

      Contrary to popular mis-conceptions on /. Microsoft fanboyism or click-and-drool interfaces didn't even figure in those plans. It was just a cool headed bang-per-buck analysis. NT won, and the former almost-monopoly in that market is nowadays no longer even a leader.

      Or take the history of DEC. How the mighty have fallen. The PC and MS-DOS were a joke compared to a good Vax. Even the Mac was't anywhere near comparable to a mini. But both were one helluva lot cheaper, and good enough for most people. And DEC just didn't get it. They stuck for too long to selling "proven solutions" to a rapidly shrinking user base, while the PCs and Macs were taking over their market like wildfire.

      Where is DEC now? Well, it doesn't even exist any more.

      So basically all I'm saying is that a tipping point does exist, it happened repeatedly before, and Microsoft itself got here because of it. Now maybe Linux won't be it. But eventually something will.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    13. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by KZigurs · · Score: 1

      "This is a transitional game we're playing, and conversion to Linux-based desktop systems won't be immediate. It will happen, though, unless something comes along that's got more momentum and greater robustness than Linux."

      Think Mac OS X ;D

    14. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      A 'tipping point' perhaps means that it isn't pure market share, but something else that causes the tip. And maybe we should be going after that something instead of market share.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    15. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by toriver · · Score: 1

      If Linux got to 20% market share for example, would there be games for it? You bet - who's going to turn down that kind of cash. Would there be preinstalled machines on the high-street? Very likely.

      There already are: Doom 3 etc. A more likely reason there are few-ish games for Linux isn't Windows but the industry's embrace of DirectX. Games using OpenGL can be more easily ported, but Direct3D isn't the only part of DirectX that developers make use of.

      Oh, and also due to the perception that Linux users don't want to pay for software, e.g. the lacklustre numbers for Borland Kylix.

    16. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Unix itself got to be a default standard for one single merit: it was cheap.

      This is not an accurate picture of Unix history.

      I'll tell you why people adopted Unix, because I was there at the time, making the decisions along with many others in research and industry. What attracted us to Unix was principally the following:

      a portable operating system which would save us from the constant pain of converting our applications between vendor operating systems, which in the context of Unix were principally minicomputer operating systems

      a much better feature set than was available in alternative products, that is to say, minicomputer operating systems

      an extremely active research community based on use and enhancement of the Unix environment, making it possible at last for your lab to build its very own environment on a par with Multics or TENEX

      Much later on, once commercial Unix variants had become fully established on increasingly powerful hardware, and once applications became available in a client/server implementation, it then became possible to argue for migration away from mainframe solutions. But mainframes and their applications were, and are, the very last to jump ship.

      The rest of your points seem valid to me, particularly how Microsoft beat companies like DEC to the PC market. The reason, as I saw it unfold, was that the established industry simply could not believe that something so obviously cheap and crappy could ever become a competitive threat. The flow of innovative technology was assumed to necessarily proceed in a top-down direction from the "advanced" systems to the "commodity" systems.

    17. Re:Rose-coloured glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Michael Raynor was funny when we interviewed him for the Digital Tipping Point film. (Dr. Raynor is the co-author with Clay Christensen of "The Innovator's Solution" book.) He said that just because it's a disruptive technology doesn't mean you get to phone it in and then golf the rest of the day! So there are no guarantees, of course. However, if you look at the interesting case histories presented by the Christensen team, you will see a pattern that you recognize: The Gandhi cons: First they ignore you; then they laugh at you; then they fight you; then you win. People once laughed at Sony's products as cheap Japanese "toys". No one laughs at Apache today.

      Christian Einfeldt
      einfeldt@earthlink.net
      415-351-1300

  8. making history by g-to-the-o-to-the-g · · Score: 1, Funny
    I wonder if in the future kids in school will learn about "hackers" like "lunis toorvalsd" who changed the way we download pr0n and read slashdot.

    In all seriousness, as a full time Gentoo user myself, I think I would prefer it if Linux remained a well kept secret (as far as the general public is concerned). Sure, a slightly larger market share would be nice, but it wouldn't be as l33t if everyone and their grandmother was using Linux. I'd love to see Linux thrive, but on the other hand what if Linux became the new monopoly and it's quality began to degrade the same way Windows(tm) has? Ramble ramble ramble. I forget what I'm karma whoring about.

    1. Re:making history by g-to-the-o-to-the-g · · Score: 1
      ...just think, maybe it'd be on the same level in terms of history events as things like the russian revolution or the french revolution. With the way technology has become a part of most people's lives, I don't see how governments can stand by and let some company run the show. If governments came after software, I bet the governments would want a lot more control over the situation. ie. think health care. The principals behind government is pretty fundamentally similar to open source (well, in Canada anyways). Info is supposed to be made available to the public, and if the government had it's say I think it would probably agree with many open source ideals.

      In other words, I don't understand why the government doesn't step in and say "Hey MS, you need to be a little more open, or you can take your products elsewhere". I think the chinese government did something like this, but I'm not up to date on my china news. I would think that government would really like the idea of open source because theres no secrets. Although, some might say that theres too much corruption in some governments (hopefully not here!).

      Just my 3 cents.

    2. Re:making history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i bet something like this already happened and been there a long time, i bet the US secret service, NSA, FBI, CIA all have a back door in to windows, but microsoft wont admit to it, and this backdoor is what crackers and viruses keep finding, so microsoft has to re-configure the back door - until the bad guys find it again, then ms does the same thing all over again, reconfiguring the secret back door again, sort of like a dog chasing its tail...

    3. Re:making history by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I'd love to see Linux thrive, but on the other hand what if Linux became the new monopoly and it's quality began to degrade the same way Windows(tm) has?

      Then you could move to *BSD, or some newer alternative such as syllable. It's not like linux is the only hobbyist OS out there.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:making history by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Plan 9, BeOS, and HURD! : D

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  9. Tipping Point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to Slashdot circa 1999, the tipping was ... you know.. 1999.

    This looks more like the tripping point to me.

  10. It's a nice thought by nels_tomlinson · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It's a nice thought, but I think that the evidence is a little weak: we have a Linuxworld article, a Novell engineer's blog, and a Harvard academic blathering about disruptive technologies.

    It could happen that MS will become a niche player, but if I had to bet money, I'd bet on MS surviving with a large market share. There's jsut too many people who have budgets to justify, and the one thing that Libre software can't help you do is squander money.

    1. Re:It's a nice thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Of course MS will survive. Even if there is some irrational mass exodus from Windows, they're a business, they'll adapt and go where the money is. What's to stop them from taking one of the BSDs and adding on a Windows compatibility layer in addition to the Linux compatibility layer? Then they'd have the one single OS that could run Unix / Linux apps as well as Windows apps. Compatibility would be their selling point, as always.

    2. Re:It's a nice thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is a basic article of faith for the Linux True Believers -- In (X+2) Years, Linux is going to take over and destroy Microsoft financially or market share-wise. (Where X is any year after 1997). Everyone from Eric Raymond on down has espoused this. (With Raymond even going so far saying that "Linux will be successful when MSFT hits $X/share".)

      The "Linux is predestined to kill Microsoft" mentality has taken such root that slashdotters will frequently confuse the prediction with reality. Microsoft reports record profits, Microsoft market share keeps going up (over 50% for servers now) -- but on Slashdot it is _obvious_ that M$ is in freefall and Linux is will take over next tuesday.

    3. Re:It's a nice thought by Nafai7 · · Score: 1

      Compatibility would be their selling point, as always.

      Serious question... when has true compatibility been a Microsoft selling point? Not trolling, just interesed to see a few examples of that.

    4. Re:It's a nice thought by grcumb · · Score: 1

      "What's to stop them from taking one of the BSDs and adding on a Windows compatibility layer in addition to the Linux compatibility layer?"

      A level playing field.

      Creating a system like the one you describe would even the field by allowing FOSS applications to be recompiled to run on their BSD variant with little or no additional effort. This would represent a free ticket into the game for any player. This would leave Microsoft one criterion to compete with: quality.

      Microsoft can't compete with FOSS on development cost. So in order to develop software of equal quality, they have to spend more money. Which means they have to charge more. This means they lose market share to competitors who are willing to accept razor-thin margins just to get on the same platform as Microsoft.

      For Microsoft, compatibility is suicide.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    5. Re:It's a nice thought by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      For microsoft, compatability is inconvenient. In a lot of areas where they haven't competed, compatability means giving up that area - for example .NET will never grow on that sort of level playing field you describe. Apache won't lose market share under such conditions. While to Microsoft, giving up hopes of expanding forever probably feels like suicide, it really isn't.
      In areas like the OS and office tools markets, Microsoft can hold onto a sizeable share even in the face of open source alternatives. Their products are well known, and work well enough. Anything taking market share from them has to look clearly superior, and not just as good or a little bit better.
      This is whay the browser wars are heating back up. Tabbed browsing is a 'little bit better' feature - useful, but not enough reason for most people to bother. Good pop-up blocking is a clearly superior feature, hence Mozilla and Firefox are grabbing share.
      Open source or otherwise independent news browsers have clearly superior features over Outlook and OE, but mostly only for people who use Usenet alt.binaries groups. The rest of the world rates those features as 'little bit better', and so doesn't change.
      Here's a tip for OS developers. Stability is now a 'little bit better' area, for small businesses and home users (and really for just about everyone who doesn't need 4 sigmas up time). A crash every few months isn't worth switching over. Security is increasingly seen as a clearly superior advantage for the UNIXoids (even Apple). If Microsoft doesn't get security under control, they will lose big in a few quarters, but they could coast for a decade or more on stability. TCO can easily be a clearly superior area as well.
      There are lots of 'little bit better's' that can be incorporated into Gnome or KDE, but not one of them will make it clearly superior to Xp's GUI.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    6. Re:It's a nice thought by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      the one thing that Libre software can't help you do is squander money

      Of course it can. On a bespoke software project, the licencing for off the shelf stuff (the OS, server app(s), etc) is generally a fraction of the overall cost. A week of my time will buy you the server hardware and a Windows Server licence - that's not going to change just because we switch to Apache on RedHat (which is in fact what we generally use).

      The money will still be spent, it'll just go to a different cost line on the invoice.

  11. Article text by mistersooreams · · Score: 1, Informative

    Only a handful of comments and already the site's down to a crawl, so here's the article text:

    Penguinistas have long loved to ruminate over a beer about the potential reversal of market share between Microsoft and companies offering open source solutions. But such ruminations were often left to discussions at the pub or the local LUG meeting because in a corporate business setting, even the most die-hard Penguinistas might be cautious about being thought of as wacko - at least in North American and European business settings.

    Software market watchers are now taking more serious assessments of the penguin versus butterfly competition, as Microsoft matures and Linux continues to put large growth numbers on the board.

    The more vocal observers' voices in this choir are typically located outside the United States. For example, Tectonic, an online open source magazine based in South Africa, recently quoted Novell SA systems engineer and business manager Allison Singh as going on record that Microsoft's Windows juggernaut will become an operating system for niche tasks while Linux takes over the mainstream desktop and server roles. According to Tectonic, Singh forecast that users who need specific applications written for Windows only will stick with the OS, but for most other users, the rapidly evolving Linux desktop will become the standard operating system. Here's the link for that story: www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=324.

    But wait! Tectonic calls itself "Africa's Source for Open Source News," and Singh, a Novell SA employee, could not be called an impartial observer. Penguinistas might put stock in Singh's vision over a beer, but the kind of market observers who carry weight with Wall Street would never consider discussing open source as a serious competition for the software market incumbent, would they?

    Perhaps not in such blunt terms, but renowned business scholars such as Harvard Business School Professor Clayton Christensen, the innovation guru, are taking a hard look at the prospects of open source taking serious market share from Microsoft.

    In his recent book, Seeing What's Next, which he coauthored with Erik Roth and Scott Anthony, Christensen provides a sober, theoretical framework for circumstances under which companies offering modular open source solutions have a competitive advantage over companies offering the integrated architectural solutions such as Microsoft's Windows franchise.

    In a nutshell, Christensen and his co-authors argue that when modular commodity products such as the Linux kernel are "good enough" for the jobs of price-sensitive market tiers, those commodity products are positioned to take market share from integrated solutions that "overshoot" the performance demands of customers in any given market tier, particularly the more price-sensitive lower market tiers.

    The Christensen team writes that as companies race to meet the performance expectations of the more functionality-sensitive upper-tier customers, who are willing to pay a premium for the latest and greatest, those companies will inevitably innovate ahead of the performance demands of the more price-sensitive market tiers. For customers in the more price-sensitive market tiers, performance of the modular commodity is often "good enough" to win the job bid or close the sale.

    Most industry observers are now coming to see that for the average desktop functions, the operating system and the office productivity suite are basically "done." In other words, the market leader has overshot the demands of customers such as schools, governments, and businesses who only need to provide their office workers with basic office productivity functions and Internet accessibility.

    It's the Packaging, Stupid...

    The secret is out. The value of open source business models is in the packaging - whether you are talking about the value-add of HP's SUSE Linux nx5000 desktop, or IBM's GNU Linux blade servers, or Google and Amazon.com o

  12. Dear short-term memory editors by Fnkmaster · · Score: 4, Interesting
    After the last LinuxWorld debacle I now refuse to click on LinuxWorld links. For once, I am not reading the article, and for a principled reason. Until LinuxWorld terminates Ms. O'Gara and denounces her page-view-whoring troll tactics, they will get no ad impressions from me.


    This is almost as bad as posting Roland Piquepaille submissions.

    1. Re:Dear short-term memory editors by dtfinch · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't expect they'll publish any more of Ms. O'Gara's articles. But all the other sites owned by their parent will continue to do so. So the ad revenue will flow.

      The LinuxWorld editors tried to apologize, blaming it on the LinuxBusinessWeek editors and mentioning that several LinuxWorld editors threatened to resign in protest. Since they're both owned by SYS-CON, both infact running basically the same site, they're expected to cross publish certain articles.

      http://www.linuxworld.com/story/46821.htm

      The LinuxBusinessWeek editors on the other hand say they disagree with the LinuxWorld editors about the quality of the article, and that LinuxBusinessWeek stands by that article and look forward to publishing more of Maureen's works. But "We will no longer provide news content to LinuxWorld Magazine's accompanying Web site."

      http://www.linuxbusinessweek.com/story/46854.htm

      So the ad revenue will still flow to the FUD flingers (parent company), but if the LinuxWorld editors have their way the FUD will stop appearing on LinuxWorld, or they'll resign, or they'll get raises.

    2. Re:Dear short-term memory editors by doofusclam · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      After the last LinuxWorld debacle I now refuse to click on LinuxWorld links. For once, I am not reading the article, and for a principled reason. Until LinuxWorld terminates Ms. O'Gara and denounces her page-view-whoring troll tactics, they will get no ad impressions from me.

      This is almost as bad as posting Roland Piquepaille submissions.


      Get over yourself.
  13. cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i want to see history in the making, i want to see microsoft's windows fall off the desktop everywhere, and ms be redused to a small niche maket sort of like the shoe on the other foot, now the penguin will rule the desktop. WooHoo :^)

  14. Indeed... by excaliber19 · · Score: 1, Funny

    I for one happily welcome our soon-to-be Monopolizing and Evil Microsoft Clone (TM) overlords.

  15. Just because it's happened before... by airjrdn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It happened not too long ago in the video card arena....Voodoo anyone?

    I don't doubt open source will dominate in many areas, but I doubt it will overtake Microsoft anytime soon unless there's a major shift torward software compatibility and enhanced intuitiveness for Windows users.

    For instance, I'd switch my Mother to Linux just to degrade her chances of a virus, but 3 or 4 little games she plays; Kyodai Mahjongg (this isn't normal mahjongg) Bubble Shooter (There's a similiar one, but it's got a ways to go to catch up to Bubble Shooter), Bookworm, etc. aren't available on Linux that I know of.

    The other issue is that, people are comfortable with where to go & what to do when there's trouble brewing in Windows. In Linux, even veteran Windows users are often at a loss.

    If you do something wrong installing video drivers in Windows, you get a smack on the hand by the OS forcing you to 640x480, where you have to deal with what you did. Make that same mistake in Linux, and without knowing what file to edit in a command line editor, most Linux newbies are looking at an OS reinstall. That's way too harsh and unfortunately, drives users right back into the open arms of Microsoft.

    Heh a blunder

    1. Re:Just because it's happened before... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You'd switch your mother for Linux???? JUST TO DEGRADE HER????

      Dear lord in heaven what has become of this heathen youth of today???

    2. Re:Just because it's happened before... by 3770 · · Score: 1

      What one has to realize is that the cost of the software itself often is marginal for the total cost of using a computer. Most people are more productive with Windows than they are with Linux. That is however not as easy to measure as the dollars spent on the software.

      I used to be a hard core Linux advocate. I still love Linux and run it when I have the chance (I happen to be a Debian-head but thinking about trying Gentoo).

      But as a software engineer, I have to be honest with myself and admit that it is easier and cheaper to develop applications for Windows than for Linux.

      --
      The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
    3. Re:Just because it's happened before... by Yaztromo · · Score: 4, Interesting
      For instance, I'd switch my Mother to Linux just to degrade her chances of a virus, but 3 or 4 little games she plays; Kyodai Mahjongg (this isn't normal mahjongg) Bubble Shooter (There's a similiar one, but it's got a ways to go to catch up to Bubble Shooter), Bookworm, etc. aren't available on Linux that I know of.

      I upgraded my mother to Linux a few years ago (RedHat 8.0), and she's been exceedingly happy with it. Indeed, Bubble Shooter is one of her favorite games as well, and its developer (Absolutist) does indeed have a Linux version, which is identical to its Windows counterpart.

      Mom-On-Linux (MOL) has had some major advantages. If her system needs maintenence, I can easily do it remotely through SSH, can can even export X apps (it helps that we're both on the same broadband network, mind you). Plus, as she doesn't have root access, she can't mess anything up. And wheras I had to watse a few days the last time my brother got a major virus infestation on his Windows laptop, Mom's machine is completely immune.

      Mom's happy because she gets to run the games she likes, run Mozilla, and check her e-mail. I'm happy because the machine hums along problem-free without my constantly receiving calls from her asking for assistance or for routine maintanence.

      (Mind you, since I bought myself my Apple PowerBook, and shoed her a picture of the new iMac G5, I think she's wanting an "upgrade" :) ).

      Yaz.

    4. Re:Just because it's happened before... by airjrdn · · Score: 1

      Awesome, I didn't know there was a Linux version as I hadn't looked in a while. Thanks for posting that.

      Heh a blunder

    5. Re:Just because it's happened before... by pipingguy · · Score: 1


      I don't doubt open source will dominate in many areas, but I doubt it will overtake Microsoft anytime soon unless there's a major shift torward software compatibility and enhanced intuitiveness for Windows users.

      The only company that could realisically challenge Microsoft is Google. MS has the war chest but Google has the hearts and minds. They won't be making any rash moves, they'll be slowly improving.

      Goodwill-wise, MS scores about a 4 while Google is approximately 9. People really respect honesty and no-nonsense, that's where Google really shines.

    6. Re:Just because it's happened before... by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      Most people are more productive with Windows than they are with Linux. That is however not as easy to measure as the dollars spent on the software.

      Strange. I have generally foudn that once people are comfortable with the system they are more likely to be more productive on Linux. There is a learning curve, but after a short time, this is more than made up for.

      But as a software engineer, I have to be honest with myself and admit that it is easier and cheaper to develop applications for Windows than for Linux.

      Hmmmm.... Not sure I agree with you. But I will agree that it is different developing apps for Linux. But then I find Linux programing very intuitive and really don't much like Windows programming....

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    7. Re:Just because it's happened before... by sloanster · · Score: 1

      f you do something wrong installing video drivers in Windows, you get a smack on the hand by the OS forcing you to 640x480, where you have to deal with what you did. Make that same mistake in Linux, and without knowing what file to edit in a command line editor, most Linux newbies are looking at an OS reinstall.

      I have not found that to be the case. As far as installing drivers in linux, if I make a mistake clicking on the "install nvidia drivers" checkbox, at the very worst I would still be without hardware accelerated 3D, and that's it. I might not even notice unless I fired up ut2004 or something, and in that case I'd go back into yast and click the checkbox again, and get it right this time. I certainly would never think of reinstalling the OS. (but maybe that's just because it's been awhile since I used a microsoft OS) ;)

    8. Re:Just because it's happened before... by Bostik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For instance, I'd switch my Mother to Linux just to degrade her chances of a virus, but 3 or 4 little games she plays; Kyodai Mahjongg (this isn't normal mahjongg) Bubble Shooter (There's a similiar one, but it's got a ways to go to catch up to Bubble Shooter), Bookworm, etc. aren't available on Linux that I know of.

      Bubble Shooter looks an awfully lot like Frozen Bubble (which in turn is a revision of some really old game). I admit that Frozen Bubble's game areas look more cramped. As for Kyodai, I fail to see what people praise in it. Sure, it's 3D and has quite pleasant sound-world - but it still is a damn solitaire. Real Mah-Jong is a great game and these solitaire versions have as much in common with Mah-Jong as Windows's default Solitaire has with Poker or Bridge. This is real Mah-Jong. Great social game. The computer version is suitably quite close to the real thing.

      Now, for Bookworm... I'd love to have the dedicated client for Linux. Applet version works nicely but for some reason Mozilla/Firefox+plugins don't always work seamlessly. (Flash sometimes leaves sound unusable until browser is restarted, Java-plugin doesn't exit and hogs memory in the same manner.)

      The other issue is that, people are comfortable with where to go & what to do when there's trouble brewing in Windows. In Linux, even veteran Windows users are often at a loss./

      You certainly have a point there, but...

      1. Newton's law of inertia applies equally well to masses of people.
      2. I am willing to say that your claim holds true also the other way round. People who are at home configuring *nix, find themselves at a fairly big loss when confronted with a malfunctioning Windows installation. The systems are really far apart both philosophically and fundamentally. I know I get a headache on those infrequent occasions when I have to work out where something was configured in Windows. Say what you will, the UI is not intuitive.

      If you do something wrong installing video drivers in Windows, you get a smack on the hand by the OS forcing you to 640x480, where you have to deal with what you did.

      Actually, something quite similar could be done for Linux. If and when X has trouble starting because of screwed-up hardware and/or configuration, it fails to start. It would be quite simple to hook this failure signal with a configurator that allows one to retry. -- Now, I said that would be simple. Making the setup intuitive and moreover, robust, is the hard part. My hunch is that writing this for one distribution would take perhaps 4 months. Making it universally available and able to custom-fit for various different distributions is probably another year. Ironing out bugs and corner-case glitches is like any software project: an ongoing voyage. Not at all that easy.

      So what am I saying? You have a point. But for games, there is actually quite a nice selection available. (Incidentally, I'm considering to try out Puzzle Pirates. Yes, they do have a Linux client as well.)

      --
      There is no such thing as good luck. There is only misfortune and its occasional absence.
    9. Re:Just because it's happened before... by airjrdn · · Score: 1

      It's been since the 9.x version of Mandrake and Redhat since I've done it, but to be honest, when you're staring at a command line and unfamiliar with what the commands even are, your choices are vastly limited. Remember, surfing (Googling for answsers) isn't an option here, because with no GUI, I've got no browser (forget Lynx, I wouldn't even know how to find it or run it w/o the GUI). :(

      Heh, a blunder

    10. Re:Just because it's happened before... by airjrdn · · Score: 1

      Good information.

      Regarding Kyodai though, it's not solitair, it's a combination of 9 different games, some of them totally new, not copies of existing titles.

      Heh, a blunder

    11. Re:Just because it's happened before... by advocate_one · · Score: 1

      thanks for the proper Mah Jong link... checking it out now...

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
  16. It's not like Microsoft and Apple are standing sti by ShatteredDream · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Microsoft has made some amazing improvements on the performance of Windows from the average user's perspectives. Face it, Windows XP was a very big and impressive release to the average user. MacOS X, even more so.

    Linux now has the big players' attention and they are busting their balls to compete on merit. How are Linux developers going to respond to the tight integration in Windows and MacOS between the different teams building the parts of each OS?

    What Linux developers will need to do is make sure that there are no weak links.That means that X.Org, Linux, KDE/GNOME, etc will have to fit into each other's design very well and as tightly as Windows and MacOS X.

    So far so good, but just remember that these companies have a big advantage int hat area that cannot be underestimated.

  17. Interesting but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Call me ambivilant, but so what? I find it irrelevant to wonder whether Linux or open source software in general will perhaps have the greatest market share at some vague point in the future.

    The fact is there's a lot open source software available that solves problems now and solves them well. I use it exclusively at home and at work because I like the general philosophy and more importantly because it gets the stuff I need to do done.

    Whether or not Microsoft lives or dies or becomes a smaller company is (for me at least) not important. This may not be true if your business relies heavily on Microsoft products and/or apis.

    1. Re:Interesting but.. by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      Call me ambivilant, but so what? I find it irrelevant to wonder whether Linux or open source software in general will perhaps have the greatest market share at some vague point in the future.

      It is not irrelevant to me becuase I make my living supporting software and I need to know what to learn and follow.

      Trends are important to any of us in the IT industry, but aside from the flexibility advantages, not so important for others initially.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  18. Article in Desktoplinux.com by at_slashdot · · Score: 3, Informative

    Desktop Linux has just published this article: The Best Free Desktop Linux . . . and how to make it better

    This is a great article that shows what a Desktop Linux could do. It's a great piece for Linux advocates to forward to people who'd like to switch but think that "Linux is way too hard to install and use".

    0$ price it's very hard to beat, I expect that the forces of the economy will swipe MS away as soon that people realize that they could do with Linux the same things they do with Windows (only more secure and cheaper) . Good times ahead :)

    --
    "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
    1. Re:Article in Desktoplinux.com by westlake · · Score: 1
      0$ price it's very hard to beat, I expect that the forces of the economy will swipe MS away as soon that people realize that they could do with Linux the same things they do with Windows (only more secure and cheaper) . Good times ahead :)

      Microsoft's revenues from OEM sales alone are up 10% from last year.

      Walmart, with it's enormous purchasing power, can't undercut Windows XP by more than $20 at the very bottom of the market. Don't expect free home shipping, a monitor and printer to be part of the deal. Sun's JDS systems aimed at the small business market have disappeared from Walmart.com.

      Our cable ISP provides free A/V subscriptions and spam filtering to all customers, and a full security package with it's premium service bundle. For all practical purposes, it's subscriber base is middle class, suburban and 100% Windows XP. The local Linux community, such as it is, has no visibility off campus.

      One thing you cannot do readily with Linux is subscribe to a legit --- DRM'd --- media service. I discovered that I no longer had the time or the patience for P2P networking.

    2. Re:Article in Desktoplinux.com by seann · · Score: 1

      Alright.

      But what do you say to the pig headed big wigs who still think linux is not free because of SCO?

      --
      I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
  19. Brazil by LordMyren · · Score: 3, Insightful

    its going to be brought about by Brazil, India and Germany when they hire a couple guys to sit down and hack some software to deploy linux to their COUNTRY.

    linux remains a very difficult thing to deploy. there are going to have to be better tools for centralized system management before linux can roll out and roll over microsoft. corporations arent the place to foot the development of these rollout-configurators, countries could concievably be. in the end, everyone will benefit.

    i'd say when a country doesnt have much difficulty doing installing linux, microsoft is going to have a hard time justifying themselves. thats a long way to go though; we're talking automagic kerberos+ldap /w unified userdb for nfs, samba, ftp, web, shell and a powerful web admin system. good outward scalability. i mean, hell, dragonfly bsd might have a better chance than linux when you think of how far there is to go. ;)

    Myren

    1. Re:Brazil by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Strongly disagree. Linux is much easier to deploy than windows. With windows NT, if you make a system image, you can't deploy it on (typically) even a slightly different system or you will get an INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE error at boot time. I've heard people say that you can use the generic IDE drivers but that doesn't work with all systems, and you will then have to go manually change the ide drivers to suit the new system. With Linux, you can either compile in support for everything, or use a big initrd and use modules, either way your system will come up and "just work" provided you follow some simple rules between machines, like making the hard disk the primary master.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Brazil by mrbcs · · Score: 1
      Xandros has a neat product here though they are starting to close things up the same as Microsoft.

      It's interesting to see some of the work going on. It's based on debian but you can't just install programs from the deb sources anymore.

      --
      I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
    3. Re:Brazil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      You're kidding, right? Boot from the network and all your "centralized system management" happens on the centralized location it's supposed to.

      What's the equivalent in Windows? What I've seen in large corporations is using a dozen no-education-past-high-school MCSE certified kids running around to manhandle each machine to install each patch. Yeah, great "centralized system management".

    4. Re:Brazil by kisielk · · Score: 1

      Nobody deploys Windows with images any more. Not the static type anyway. Usually there's a boot disk that will load the base files on to the machine, and then an automated install will be performed of the system and apps, ensuring the right drives get installed for the hardware.

      But anyway, I still think it's a pain in the ass. Having developed some of these images for the company I work for right now, there's just so many quirks in individual app installations, and settings in Windows are set in all sorts of different ways (config files, registry, policy...) , not all apps support automated installation, etc. The whole thing is a huge mess. I'd take Linux any day :)

  20. It's not as OT as the mods think! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    LinuxWorld really did run O'Gara's story with SCO's latest spew, and should have been a bit more careful.

    Now then, it's not that parent doesn't have a point about O'Gara taking SCO's word for things a *wee* bit more than should have been reasonable, but I would suggest you all read what else PJ of Groklaw wrote about that whole issue here:

    http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200410261 33519345

    Not that most Slashdotters will likely heed her advice...

    1. Re:It's not as OT as the mods think! by jg21 · · Score: 1
      Listening to PJ on this issue would be a very good idea - blind loathing of another human being is a very shaky foundation for useful criticism, and intemperate language takes the debate not one inch further forward.

      As the parent AC says:

      I would suggest you all read what else PJ of Groklaw wrote about that whole issue here: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200410261 33519345

  21. Re:It's not like Microsoft and Apple are standing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    No they don't. What Linux developers will need to do is nothing in particular. In other words, they just need to continue to make sure the stuff they work on makes them happy. Everything else follows quickly and easily from that.

  22. Microsoft helping Open Source by kafka47 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Microsoft has helped the Open source revolution happen.

    Look at the UI. Look at the applications. The basic look and feel hasn't changed significantly since 1995. Almost every new technology "innovation" has been either bought or copied (poorly) by Microsoft.

    OSS' growth has been more viral, more grassroots, more innovative than the top-down "we know better than you" approach that Microsoft has successfully imposed on its users in the last 5 years. It is with this suppression of innovation that Microsoft has directly spawned and contributed to the open-source revolution!

    On another note, after 10 years on Wintel, I switched to Macintosh recently. After 5 minutes inside of OSX, I experienced more innovation and creativity than I had on Windows for as long as I can recall.

    Thank-you Microsoft for helping me switch to truly useable applications.

  23. Re:HA ha! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm still laughing HAHA :-P

  24. the same disruptive mechanism will provide drivers by jeoin · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    one day linux will actually work on every computer.

    --
    Jeoin
  25. Where can I download MKS Toolkit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I purchased this years ago, but they try to ream you for each version upgrade.

    I've paid for it 3 times, that's enough. Where can I get the latest version for gratis?

    1. Re:Where can I download MKS Toolkit? by swillden · · Score: 3, Funny

      I've paid for it 3 times, that's enough. Where can I get the latest version for gratis?

      http://cygwin.com

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  26. Will take some time by einhverfr · · Score: 4, Informative

    I am a consultant with many small business customers. A few are pondering the use of Linux (I charge more for monthly maintenance of Windows systems because they take more of my time). But there are a few obstacles which completely prevent a few of them from using Linux (these are sufficiently small businesses not to have any dedicated servers).

    The largest obstacle is that many of these businesses depend on vertically targetted web sites and programs which may not work on Linux. Yes, we could get many of these to work probable with Win4Lin or Crossover. However, the uncertainty and supportability is an issue.

    But other clients of mine are already committing to Linux. In one case, we saved $20,000 for a customer in license fees alone, not to mention the support costs in network simplification by using Linux-based VPN appliances rather than an equivalent on Windows. In another case, we have a very successful Linux desktop deployment. In another case, we have a customer thinking about switching so he doesn't have to pay me to swing by every month to run a spyware/virus scan.

    It will happen, but slowly.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    1. Re:Will take some time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what do you suppose would be the turning point for your customers pondering Linux?

      How much would have to change or improve for them to decide in a wholesale way to jump ship.

      Of course there will be plenty of people that will still go for Windows, that's understandable...

      Or do you think that it will continue to go the way it's going now, step by step. A sort of glacier movement, slow but impossible to stop...?

    2. Re:Will take some time by einhverfr · · Score: 3, Informative

      So what do you suppose would be the turning point for your customers pondering Linux?

      How much would have to change or improve for them to decide in a wholesale way to jump ship.


      They would need a guaranteed way of running the applications that they require in a supported way.

      Let me give you an example. A local insurance agency is a customer of mine. They connect to a terminal server in New York to do most of their work so in theory maybe rdesktop would be a good solution. In practice, it isn't so simple. The server uses propritary and Windows-only software (Simplify printing) to redirect the printers. And they also need to access IE-only sites like Safeco as well as use Windows-only tools such as those for IBQ and Progressive. I could sell them on the Linux solution easily if these problems were solved.


      Or do you think that it will continue to go the way it's going now, step by step. A sort of glacier movement, slow but impossible to stop...?


      For now. I think that when Linux desktop market share starts to move faster (spurred by adoption by large businesses) that the dam will start to break. With Munich, Brazil, and possibly Paris, this could also start to move faster.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    3. Re:Will take some time by fossa · · Score: 1

      ...doesn't have to pay me to swing by every month to run a spyware/virus scan.

      Of course, as some would tell it, if and when significant migration to Linux occurs, so will viruses and other malware migrate to Linux, though this doesn't diminish the other reasons for migration.

    4. Re:Will take some time by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      Of course, as some would tell it, if and when significant migration to Linux occurs, so will viruses and other malware migrate to Linux, though this doesn't diminish the other reasons for migration.

      My customer who is looking at moving at the moment has this assumption, but I am not so sure.

      Windows spyware/viruses come in three major flavors.
      1) ActiveX exploits
      2) Mass mailers
      3) Worms.

      All three are unlikely to be the problem on Linux that they are on Windows. ActiveX is a particularly bad technology to access via the web because there is no sandbox which prevents a control from a trusted vendor from being exploited with a script into doing something it wasn't intended for. There is no possible security patch to fix this either and it is unpatchable. I am willing to bet that a large portion of spyware/adware gets installed in this way.

      Mass mailers are easy to spread because Windows lets you run attachments from the email client. I don't see Linux clients making this mistake and it is not a part of the desktop design. Therefore they will not be the same problem.

      As for worms, these are the largest of the three problems on Linux (but the least in Windows). Even there, it is unclear whether a workstation is likely to be vulnerable. So again....

      Now, it is true that you could have a new breed of malware developed for Linux but it would be harder than for Microsoft, unless we have pervasive plugins to run Mono apps in our web browsers from untrusted sources......

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    5. Re:Will take some time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One thing to keep in mind is that malware adapts the environment -- you don't see bootsector viruses anymore. Put Linux on millions of desktops and people will discover new ways to trick people and new obscure KDE/Gnome features to exploit.

      Other issue is that Linux devs have had the luxury of being reactive -- copying MS-style features long after the downsides have become obvious (forex, mail clients or plugin installation). If they get "out front", they may well make similar mistakes.

    6. Re:Will take some time by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      Please note that I said that it would be more difficult on Linux than on Windows. I did not say it would not happen. But if it is more difficult, and if the install base is more diverse, then the viruses may not become a problem of the same magnitude that they are on Windows.

      Are there Linux viruses? Yes. About 100 or so of them. Are there Windows viruses? Yes, probably hundreds of thousands of them. This is despite Linux having a relatively strong marketshare in internet servers.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    7. Re:Will take some time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You and others are talking about all the great stuff that comes with higher desktop marketshare. But that assumes that the installed base is NOT all that diverse and ISVs and others can easily target a large 'platform'. And if ISVs can target it, so can virus writers. So, I don't see the argument about custom-configured Linux servers applying much to ILOVEYOU.pl.

      That being said, these posts will be long forgotten before Linux reaches the critical-mass necessary to prove/disprove the marketshare=>viruses argument.

    8. Re:Will take some time by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      You and others are talking about all the great stuff that comes with higher desktop marketshare. But that assumes that the installed base is NOT all that diverse and ISVs and others can easily target a large 'platform'. And if ISVs can target it, so can virus writers. So, I don't see the argument about custom-configured Linux servers applying much to ILOVEYOU.pl

      I think one needs to separate the avenues of attach for a virus (network services, user tools) from the development environment (libraries, programing tools, etc) in looking at diversity. I think that the exposed points of attack will be very diverse even though the development environment may be very simple.

      This means that a virus will have to tell you to download the attachment, chmod it, and then run it. Simply doubleclicking won't work, and it won't work on as many people.

      You are very much right that malware will likely adapt to Linux, and there is a threat from new forms of malware. However, that being said, the existing forms of malware which attack Windows are not likely to be a problem in Linux unless we end up with email clients which can automatically run executable content or web browsers which don't sandbox applications handed to them.

      There are a few things about windows that makes it an especially easy target for virus and other malware writers. All I am saying is that Linux is not as easy a target as Windows. THese problems include:

      Trusted vendors, ActiveX and the Internet (.Net will have the same problem on the internet)

      Email clients which let you run executable programs sent to you

      Braindead network dependencies which often leaves RPC exposed on internet-facing interfaces.

      Internet Connection Firewall and new updates to outlook express (blocking "dangerous" attachments) should go a long ways to reduce the exposure to viruses. But the outlook express update is one that people find so problematic that they often turn it off, so that doesn't help. So we are left with some defence at least against worms (which is good) but the bad news is that those braindead design ideas are probably impossible to get around as now everyone depends on them.

      Linux is not invulnerable. It is just a harder target than Windows. But that says very very little.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    9. Re:Will take some time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do not need to chmod a script in order to run it. And there are Linux mailers that launch executable attachments (KMail has numerous ways of doing so.)

  27. I'll believe it when I see it.. by d_jedi · · Score: 0, Redundant

    but now, I'm not buying the argument. Microsoft isn't going away anytime soon.

    --
    I am the maverick of Slashdot
  28. New to you doesn't mean it is fresh innovation by 3770 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Not to bash Max OS X (I have a Powerbook and I love it). But if you move to a different operating system altogether than it would be very surprising if you didn't see features that wasn't availalble in Windows and appear new to you.

    If you had used Mac OS X since 95 and just had moved to Windows you would have marvelled over all the innovations there.

    --
    The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
    1. Re:New to you doesn't mean it is fresh innovation by CoolMoDee · · Score: 1

      If you had used Mac OS X since 95 and just had moved to Windows you would have marvelled over all the innovations there.

      Like the speed that it can spread virueses!

      Jokes aside, I think the only real innovative thing MS has done in Windows is...I honestly can't think of anything...solitare maybe?

      --
      Jisho - A Japanese English German Russian French Dictionary for the rest of us.
  29. Tipping Point by bhny · · Score: 1

    This phrase comes from a book by Malcolm Gladwell. The basic point is that a new idea with the help of a few influential people can suddenly become the latest trend.

    Linux is still used by a very small percentage of people and this is also it's main disadvantage. Once the percentage of users creeps up to a more visible level (15%-20%?) then that disadvantage falls away and suddenly it's popularity will explode.

    1. Re:Tipping Point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know that sounds like not too bad an idea. Mabey if we can get some movie stars to endorse linux. We already have Kurt Vonnegut.

  30. Solution: Build apps that are cross-platform! by SendBot · · Score: 1

    I've been thinking frequently that what would help spread linux like wildfire is network delivered applications that make the platform irrelevant.

    Simple web based apps are nice, but there are many limitations such as not having a framework for interface, making developers write their own widgets or integrate other software after researching available solutions.

    I've just started using XUL (pronounced 'zool') for an application that will load simply by visiting a url with mozilla/firefox. You can install local apps that have priveleged access to resources, but for my needs all data interaction will be handled by a central system.

    If anyone could have a fully working computer that just worked reliably all the time with most software you could ever want available to you for the cost of internet access, I think *that* is the kind of appeal that would help cause accelerated growth in open souce adoption in the consumer market.

    Check out XUL: http://xulplanet.com

  31. MS Does care by einhverfr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    MS is faced with a problem. Their major money makers are Windows and Office, both of which are facing rapidly maturing competition from open source alternatives. They can continue to try to grow their market, but it will not be easy (must combat piracy in the third world, and expand the markets for those two products elsewhere). Their other products and services are two small to deliver the revenue that Microsoft and their stockholders expect.

    So what happens as Linux and OpenOffice expand? The cost of bringing Windows and Office to market is astronomical, and the cost to produce each unit is very small, so each sale lost hits Microsoft surprisingly hard.

    This quest to expand the market shows up in Media Center and Automotive editions of Windows, and in the new services which come as a part of office.

    There is a problem. I have learned that if you "innovate" for the sake of innovation, your ideas will be only useful to a few, and the good enough solution takes over. I don;t see a unifying strategy for Microsoft anymore. Disclaimer: I am a former Microsoftie.

    I see Microsoft as going down surprisingly quickly. It won't take long once the tipping point is actually reached (maybe with Linux hitting 10 or 20 percent of the desktop).

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    1. Re:MS Does care by Piquan · · Score: 1

      There is a problem. I have learned that if you "innovate" for the sake of innovation, your ideas will be only useful to a few, and the good enough solution takes over.

      You may want to read Worse is Better, by Richard Gabriel, a prominent Lisp hacker. It discusses this phenomenon with two examples: ITS (better) vs Unix (worse), and Scheme (better) vs Common Lisp (worse). It's part of a paper about Lisp's future (at the time; it's over 11 years old).

      One of my favorite quotes from the paper: The good news is that in 1995 we will have a good operating system and programming language; the bad news is that they will be Unix and C++. He was close; it's Linux and Java.

  32. FF by Southpaw018 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just look at Firefox - it's currently the subject of an enourmous grassroots movement. SFX just signed up over 10,000 people in 8 days for their New York Times ad. FF has been downloaded over 6.8 million times now. People are taking notice; there have been discussions here on /. estimating the "geek" usage at 90%. And I wouldn't doubt it.

    --
    ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
  33. Bla bla bla by sn0wflake · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm sorry to say that Linux will not win over Windows as long as you can't play new games like The Sims 2 or do simple things without opening a console. Yes, I know that DirectX is closed-source and I know that Linux is a very smart OS. But Linux is way to hard to learn and configure. I've tried many times to convert to Linux and everytime I'm missing a game or simply don't want to read the telephone sized FAQ's. Doing simple tasks like changing screen resolution should not involve opening a console and typing in obscure commands. I know I'll get modded down, but seriously Linux guys. Face it, Linux is to hard for normal users to use. Mom users like their puzzle bubble and surfing the web with Mozilla, but as a Joe Smoe user I can only say that using Linux for everyday tasks is still way too hard and I don't want to invest years just to learn Linux when Windows simply work with a click of a mouse.

    1. Re:Bla bla bla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a console if you just want to play games. Judging an OS by its ability to play the latest games is moronic.

    2. Re:Bla bla bla by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      And yet there are some very good games out there that are written exclusively for windows, Do you suggest that the people who enjoy these games should give them up because the OS is better? the OS provides the framework for the applications to run. Ideally, you shouldn't even notice its there.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    3. Re:Bla bla bla by sn0wflake · · Score: 1

      Why should I buy a console when I have a PC? Your response is typical Slashdot like. Judging an OS by its ability to play the latest games is an excellent way to test it.
      If I had a city car and wanted to go offroad should I simply buy another car that can do that? No, I start by buying an offroader since it'll also drive in the city.

    4. Re:Bla bla bla by mrbcs · · Score: 1
      Games are the NUMBER ONE reason more people don't switch to linux. I don't think they like bringing their machines in to get reformatted every 3 months... but they like their games more.

      Port the latest games to linux, and the home users will use it. Make a decent accounting program, and a lot of buisnesses would too.

      --
      I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
    5. Re:Bla bla bla by TravisWatkins · · Score: 1

      In GNOME 2.8 (not sure about earlier versions, I'm a new user) changing the screen resolution is just Computer>System Configuration>Screen Resolution. Combined with debian handling all the details for me with X (or maybe X did it) I never once had to open a console to change my resolution.

      --

      "But I'm still right here, giving blood and keeping faith. And I'm still right here."
    6. Re:Bla bla bla by toddestan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Console is one of the things that's holding Linux back. Right now Linux is good for either geeks who are comfortable with the command line, or people like my Mom who just uses the system and is content with the preinstalled packages and default settings (provided they "just work").

      The kind of user who doesn't really know as much as we do about computers, but still wants to install some software or tweak some options is the type that really gets turned off of Linux. They don't want to use the command line, or poke around in /etc. They just want to do be able to easily do stuff. And this is the majority of computer users out there.

      Linux really needs to be like OS X, you have a powerful command line, but if you don't want to - you never have to touch it. Windows is simular, you almost never have to touch DOS either, unless you want to (ipconfig.exe is the one, big, glaring exception to that).

      The good news is, we're almost to that point with some of the newest Linux distro's.

    7. Re:Bla bla bla by VocabularyNazi · · Score: 0

      if all you do is treat your computer like a toy, then windows is absolutely perfect for you.

      --
      I will not be using Plan 9 in the creation of weapons of mass destruction to be used by nations other than the US.
    8. Re:Bla bla bla by grumbel · · Score: 1

      That only works if the XF86Config already contains all the right Modelines with the right refresh rate and with the right settings (otherwise the alignment might be completly of). Changing the default startup resolution might also get tricky that way.

      The real throuble is really that there doesn't seem to be a real interface to interact with XF86Config, meaning for anything that is wrong in that file you are back to 'vi XF86Config' style of fixing stuff, no GUI. Some distros provide things like Sax to make things easier, but they are non standard and thus not integraded into Gnome or KDE. Its also no fun to newly figure out how to do things once you switch distros, not so much a problem if you always use the same, but it makes 'help your neighbour' a whole lot more difficult if he uses another distri.

      Last not least, none of the automatic configurators for XF86Config did a good job for me, they provide a reasonablly default, but for refresh rate or additional input devices (graphic tablet) I always needed to go back to manually edit the config file.

    9. Re:Bla bla bla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well since some of the most anticipated games of All time are being released for Linux Doom III anyone ? That will slowly change.

      Nick ...

    10. Re:Bla bla bla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with everything you say.

      Except that I can change the screen resolution with a mouse click.

      If all else were equal, Linux wouldn't have a chance. The reality is that Microsoft truly sucks for most people due to the security issues.

      Hardware support is a chicken and egg issue. Same with games.

      The value proposition for the Linux desktop is so compelling that I can't see it not taking over. Every 6 months a few of the showstoppers get fixed. There are fewer and fewer reasons not to go to linux.

      Derek (who bought a laser printer recently that came with Linux drivers. In the box.)

    11. Re:Bla bla bla by westlake · · Score: 1
      if all you do is treat your computer like a toy, then windows is absolutely perfect for you.

      --- and that is why it sells.

      Microsoft markets Windows to middle class users who have no interest in polishing their Geek credentials or playing out Apple's upscale urban lifestyle fantasies, people who will buy a Windows system for the office work they must do, and for the music, the games, the fun things they want to do.

    12. Re:Bla bla bla by TravisWatkins · · Score: 1

      dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 works nicely for me.

      --

      "But I'm still right here, giving blood and keeping faith. And I'm still right here."
  34. listen up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When laval pours out near the sea surface, tremendous volcanic explosions sometimes occur.

    1. Re:listen up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The time before a dive is always a tense time.

    2. Re:listen up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When lava flows underwater, it behaves differently.

    3. Re:listen up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The crew have devised a contraption to capture a dandelion in one piece.

  35. Oh, yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, sure, next year is definitely The Year Of Linux On The Desktop(TM). No doubt.

  36. Link to {Eye,Printer}-Friendly Versions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  37. Couple points though by einhverfr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not sure if you are trolling. But anyways....

    Businesses tend to be risk adverse, which is generally a good thing. This means also that they are afraid of change. So this slows down Linux quite a bit.

    Home users tend to stick with what they use at work. So until Linux takes over on the corporate workstation, it will be a slow tough fight.

    All that being said, I think that Linux will kill windows. It will just be a slow process until a certain market share is reached. At this point application compatibility will be less of an issue. But progress is occuring much faster than some people realize: Linux is certainly killing proprietary UNIX (as is Windows), and the fate of OS X is uncertain, though I suspect that it will slowly be open sourced bit by bit, and they may slowly subsume eachother.....

    Consider that 5% of the PC's which shipped last year ran Linux (mostly Linspire and Mandrake). Even after you count those where Windows was later installed, that was still up to three percent of *new* PC sales. Yes, Microsoft's monopoly has begun to collapse already. This year, maybe, it will be more.

    Linux is already causing Microsoft real headaches in a few very key markets such as internet server and embedded system markets. The real beacheads are business web application development, desktop, and groupware now. But it is a slow process at the moment and will be for some time. I do predict though that it will be a fierce war for the desktop by the time Longhorn ships.

    BTW, Linux has been good enough for the desktop for the last 5 years. It is just getting better :-)

    Also, Microsoft's last year of record profits was the year XP was launched. This is to be expected. But their market share is another question-- how do you measure market share? In dollars? If so then the slow demise of proprietary UNIX and Netware gives Microsoft greatly inflated numbers. If in deployments, then the simple answer is: we don't really know what real numbers are because we have no good way of measuring them.

    Now, is there a tipping point? You bet. At a certain point, people won't write their business web tools for IE only (as Safeco does). Vertically targetted tools will be available for Linux, etc. and all basic productivity tools will be open source. At this point, I expect Linux useage to take off much faster.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    1. Re:Couple points though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically it was trolling because I was poking a stick at Linux advocates who can't make a reasoned argument (such as your post) and instead rely on Blind Faith that Microsoft is toast. Of course, the "M$ is going down" people are also technically trolling despite the insightful mods.

      The IDG server marketshare numbers used to one of the Linux Advocate's favorite measures of success. As the number have skewed Windows tho, for some reason they don't appear on /. anymore... Think maybe the Linux world declared victory on the server before the real fight even started.

  38. damnations by discogravy · · Score: 1
    I thought it was going to be about an Open Source IDS/IDP (think snort or tripwire but more embedded-hardware-based and more adaptive).

    That said, I think the real tipping point w/r/t OSS software getting mindshare and being a Big Thing is going to be via either simple devices running linux (mythTV setups sold cheaper than linux, for e.g.,) or when linux/freebsd gets a UI that is more MacOSX-like (by this I mean that you can do everything via GUI; current linux GUIs are getting closer to the simplicity and adaptability of MacOSX, but aren't going to be there for a while yet.)

    Consider that most desktop systems are trying very hard to simplify things, and also consider how people raised with MS environments have trouble with a professional environment like MacOSX, just because it's not what they're used to. Not to say that it's impossible, just difficult.

  39. rap song by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    spigot: I'D LIKE TO OPEN THIS MEETING WITH THIS RAP SONG ABOUT LINUX!!!!!! I MADE IT ON THE BUS!!!!
    spigot: A PTTH
    spigot: A FRPFPR
    spigot: DEAD BATTERIES
    spigot: DOES ANYONE HAVE A CORD THAT CAN GO FROM A WALKMAN TO THE WALL OUTLET!?!!!?
    spigot: A PPTHTHTH
    spigot: I SPRAINED MY NECK
    spigot: FOLKS, "PUFFIES" REFER TO PUFFY NIPPLES

  40. who gives a rat's ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Ignore all that stupid hype and just keep writing great software. The people will choose with their feet. If that means linux gains market share, then great. If not, you still have a tool that meets your own needs.

    Well maybe not great software at first, but with hard work and dedication, it can become great software.

  41. Hate to disagree but by ewe2 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Most of this article just extrapolated corporate WishThink. The "inevitability" of the end of MS blissfully ignores the dependence of hardware manufacturers at one end, and the GUI-dependence of users at the other. Nor is the OS a done deal, and most of the "commoditization" of office apps is still Microsoft OS-based, whatever the attractions of OpenOffice/StarOffice.

    I can't hammer this point enough: MS has a gatekeeper mentality because it IS the gatekeeper. That is what needs to change. If MS could shoot down the GPL, it would not hesitate to sell an MS shell over a linux core, if it can justify dumping the NT asset. Okay, that's two if's but they're realistic if's. Otherwise, MS will stay put and strong-arm everyone.

    What linux needs is shrink-wrapped POS systems. Shrink-wrapped accounting/stock-management. Take out those dependencies and you'll get a huge slice of market share.

    --
    insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
    1. Re:Hate to disagree but by petrus4 · · Score: 1

      >If MS could shoot down the GPL, it would not
      >hesitate to sell an MS shell over a linux core,
      >if it can justify dumping the NT asset.

      Yes, they would hesitate. If they wanted to do this, they already could have with their own distro of FreeBSD, a la Apple. They don't want to because Jim Allchin (among other peeps in the company) is slavishly determined to stick to Windows as it currently exists, NO MATTER WHAT. Even if it becomes insecure to the point of falling to pieces. Even if everyone else on the planet urged him/them to go with a BSD/Linux core.

      If Microsoft *were* willing to consider entering the OSS market, they might have some sort of chance. But because they won't, they don't.

  42. Not tipping quite yet... by smug_lisp_weenie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Open source has two main strengths:
    1. quality
    2. easy fixes/improvements

    The minor successes so far I think are clearly due to quality: Even mainstream technology enthusiasts can recognize that Apache, Firefox, and a few other tools are super-solid and finely-tuned applications.

    But appreciation for a specific application does not translate into success for open-source as a whole, because it does not engage the user in the paradigm of open source.

    But someday, the second strength of open source will become more evident: The ease with which it can be fixed and improved, and by this I mean improvements that are personal and specific to the user, something that is still very rare and unappreciated.

    Consider, for instance, an average user of a mail program muttering to him/herself "I wish my email program could set off my alarm clock if I get an early email from work in the morning..." Suppose that person could post $100 improvement fee to a website, where it might be merged with similar requests from other users and leads to a new extension to be developed by an independent developer...

    This idea is often discussed, but it is still only in its infancy. However, I believe it is critical for the success of open source, because it both engages the user in the OS philosophy and also allows a viable financial model to exist for mainstream software companies to participate in the OS revolution.

    How can we make this happen?

  43. Already happened by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The tipping point(s) already happened. They're called kernel 2.6 and firefox. If up is bad and down is good, then the release of firefox 1 will be the point just before the sharp decrease on a bell curve if you are travelling left to right.

    It's a rollercoaster weeeee!!

  44. Oneupsmanship? by einhverfr · · Score: 1

    I migrated my mom from Windows 95 to Red Hat 6.1. True she didn't play any games but she was calling my for tech support every two weeks because something would break or she couldn't figure something out. So I gave her a new computer with Red Hat on it and set up a network connection between the two computers. Shortly she stopped using Windows 95 and switched entirely to Linux.

    7.2 was a great help

    8.0 was even better.

    Now she would never dream of going back. I even set up SQL-Ledger for her to run her home-based business with. :-)

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    1. Re:Oneupsmanship? by Yaztromo · · Score: 1
      I migrated my mom from Windows 95 to Red Hat 6.1.

      Well, for many years my mom was running different versions of OS/2 on her system, because it was what I was running. There was, unfortunately, a short time period where she had a Windows-only scanner where she was dual-booting between OS/2 and Windows 98. She always hated Windows, and spent as little time in it as possible.

      It got to the point where IBM's lack of OS/2 support and software was turning into a liability for her. At the same time, she found she wasn't using her scanner much anymore (it was one of those nasty parallel port based scanners that only ever had Windows 98 drivers, and doesn't work under any other OS), so the move to RedHat 8.0 was pretty easy.

      Mind you, she does nothing other than run a few software programs, primarily games, and Mozilla, and doesn't ever create any documents, and never tries to install her own software, so it hasn't been as painful a conversion as some people might experience. Indeed, it was painless. The system is completely stable and requires virtually no maintenence as previously mentioned.

      Here, Linux has passed the Mom test with flying colours. If it wasn't for the fact it has both nVidia video and an nVidia motherboard chipset that caused me no end of installation problems, I'd probably upgrade it to Fedora.

      Yaz.

  45. Would you have also bet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that 640Kb of RAM is all we will ever need?

  46. lilo loading by codepunk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While watching american casino on discovery last week I seen a tech converting a slot machine to take coins instead of dollars. He started up the machine and the camera panned to the screen. The first thing that appeard on the screen was?

    lilo loading ....

    The slide has already begun!

    --


    Got Code?
    1. Re:lilo loading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you know they weren't just using lilo to switch between Win95 and Win98?

  47. Oh BS! by codepunk · · Score: 1

    I run our entire manufacturing floor on kde desktops and I spend a total of about 5 minutes a week or less maintaining those systems. Thin client is where it is at when it comes to maintenance in a corporate environment. The problem is all of the wanna be linux admins going and loading linux on the client machines, hell that is just plain stupid, it is the windows sell tons of licenses model of deployment. Install a server and fire up remote x, sit back and enjoy.

    --


    Got Code?
  48. Microsoft probably will avoid demise by wondering · · Score: 1

    Einfeldt does not address the question of whether there is anything that Microsoft can do to avoid demise.

    Prof. Christensen himself recently suggested as a possible strategy that Microsoft should set up a new business using the low-cost alternative Linux on handheld devices. http://news.com.com/2100-7344-5411843.html

    1. Re:Microsoft probably will avoid demise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It is very unlikely that Microsoft will allow itself fall over and die as the LinuxWorld article suggests. The companies that Christensen uses as examples (e.g, DEC) didn't have the benefit of Christensen's books to understand what was happening to them. Microsoft does.

      Microsoft probably will come up with some workable strategy. After all, they can afford the highest price consultants. It might be the strategy suggested in by Christensen in the above CNET article, or it might be the strategy in another post above - that they will start to deliver other business applications (e.g., POS/inventory) as shrinkwrapped software. Also, Microsoft does regularly invest in startups working on "disruptive" technology.

      I would not be surprised if there were regular high-level meetings at Microsoft right now, trying to figure out the answer to the question of what they should do to stay in business despite the commodification of their core products. It would be great to be a fly on the wall at those meetings.

  49. Re:It's not like Microsoft and Apple are standing by petrus4 · · Score: 1

    >user's perspectives. Face it, Windows XP was a
    >very big and impressive release to the average
    >user.

    Please define "average user". This to me is a rather vague and ambiguous term, and could cause me to make certain assumptions about the type of user you're talking about, which you may not have intended.

    >that there are no weak links.That means that >X.Org, Linux, KDE/GNOME, etc will have to fit
    >into each other's design very well and as tightly
    >as Windows and MacOS X.

    No...The different elements of Linux were initially designed as components...seperate pieces...and this decision was made for a number of reasons that developed over quite a long period of time...X Windows in particular predates Linux. This document may be of relevance if you are interested in learning about the rationale behind modular design, and why monolithic design (the philosophy Microsoft have traditionally used) is normally not as effective.

    Microsoft's direction is set, broadly speaking, by people whose skillset is oriented a lot more along the lines of economics and marketing than programming as such. The company exists for two reasons that I have been able to discern:-

    (a) To make money via appealing to the largest possible demographic of the computer using population. Technical excellence, despite claims to the contrary, has been repeatedly shown as not being one of Microsoft's priorities. I can also cite numerous pieces of evidence in support of that assertion if you are interested.

    (b) To maintain control primarily of the software industry, but also potentially of others...for reasons largely unknown, but presumably a continued desire for generation of massive revenue is a factor. This is a more difficult assertion to support, but Bill Gates has on a few occasions outlined visions of a particular future scenario in which Microsoft has a high degree of control of the areas of both computer software and entertainment/journalistic media.

    It also would not be accurate to say that Microsoft have any real advantage over Linux, technical or otherwise...and they are well aware of this, and have mentioned it in profit statements. This document, as well as a collection of documents here outline in high detail the specific challenges Microsoft face in dealing with Linux, and the corporation's long term prognosis cannot be honestly described as positive. I believe that the company's best case scenario within the next decade or so is gradual marginalisation and a decreasing degree of market relevance. Worst case scenario (for them) is bankruptcy, probably ten years or so out at the earliest. This is an unlikely scenario, but given the amount of litigation the company has faced in the last few years, its tremendous losses in the court of public opinion, and the degree to which Windows sales have slowed, (not to mention the most devastating element, which is the lack of a genuinely concrete roadmap after Windows NT 4) it is becoming increasingly possible. The other thing that causes this to be more possible now is the fact that while Microsoft are not developing any substantially new products, (despite the claim at the beginning of your comment, most of the changes to Windows XP were cosmetic at best) the insecurity of Windows XP and the associated necessity to release massive and constant amounts of patches for it means that Microsoft can no longer afford to support older versions of its operating system, despite the fact that many people still use them.

    I believe I observed the beginning of Microsoft's downfall in around September/October 1997. Although it may not be immediately obvious to the casual observer, the company is now losing blood...a combination of Linux, its own mistakes/misdeeds, and a recent comparitive lack of direction have left it mortally wounded. I also do not believe, no

  50. Question by HangingChad · · Score: 2, Funny
    In one case, we saved $20,000 for a customer in license fees alone...

    Was that OS and productivity software, or just the OS? I've had customers save considerably more just on the productivity software.

    But I think we'll get the whole package when it comes upgrade time. When staff are already using OSS productivity and browser software replacing the OS isn't all that hard.

    This may sound strange but one customer was all hot over Linux when he found out his employees couldn't install Weather Bug. I suppose a good consultant would have told him he could lock the Windows users down the same way, but it was such an insightful moment I didn't have the heart.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    1. Re:Question by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      Was that OS and productivity software, or just the OS? I've had customers save considerably more just on the productivity software.

      It was a fairly complex setup. I got a subcontract on this one because the main contractor looked at it and said "to do what you are asking, it will cost $20000 in software license fees" but we were able to consolidate the Windows servers down to one server in one location and then set up some VPN appliances which were able to obviate the need for servers at every branch office.

      Personally I think I could have come up with a cheaper solution even on Windows. But it was not my design, and so I don't know the details. I suspect there were multiple server products which would have been installed at each location.

      Even going with the solution most similar to mine, we would be looking at $10000 (ISA Server + Windows 2003 Standard for 4 branch locations). I think there was some concern about some productivity tools too but I am not sure.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  51. Re:It's not like Microsoft and Apple are standing by fossa · · Score: 1

    Everything else follows quickly and easily from that.

    Well, I'm not sure I agree with that, but since telling free software developers what to work on (aside from being wrong) is like herding cats, I guess we're stuck waiting to find out if you're right.

    I just don't see the whole interface inconsistency being solved. The more I learn about interface design, the more I realize how different my mindset was before I decided usability is the most important feature of any software program. In free software, I've mostly seen a lone coder or three working on some technically interesting project only to neglect the interface, or use some oddball toolkit, or whatever*. And no one wants to be told how they should code their project. Though, there are steps being made to improve this situation (Gnome usability guidlines and freedesktop.org come to mind) which are, of course, due to developers doing what makes them happy. So perhaps you are right after all.

    * Why is it that in shell, there is only one interface (stdin, stdout, commandline args), but in "GUI" there are a multitude of interfaces. Would it not be a fascinating and purely technical challenge to create a gui system that didn't insist upon or enforce a single interface (in the way gnome insists on gtk) but merely was this way by design? From a purely technical standpoint, this would reduce code redundancy (how many GUI toolkits do we have? how many applications have coded a "file->save" function? in which text widgets can I use bold? why does app A have "undo" while app B does not?), and it would be a huge win for usability.

  52. The key is Myth busting by vwjeff · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I work for my local school district as a PC tech. We have 12 primary, 2 secondary, 1 high school, and a central office. All network traffic from the primary and secondary schools plus the central office is routed to the high school over ISDN lines to the high school. There we have 4 T1s.

    All of our schools except for the high school have always had slow internet connections due to the ISDN line. We don't have the budget to install T1s for all of our buildings. In the past I had suggested using a Squid proxy at each remote building to save on traffic going to the High School. He said he had never hear of this "Squid" thing and asked me about it. I told him it was a free proxy web cache server that runs on Linux. He sounded interested until I mentioned the words free and Linux. Instead my boss, after I warned him many times, decided to buy an underpowered 3com webcache appliance and put it at the high school. The appliance was rated for a medium sized business (100-500 computers) Our district has over 3000 computers, 1000 of which are at the high school. Even at the high school this device is not adequate. As a result, network performance has not improved anywhere and has decreased at the high school due to the bottleneck. Did I mention the cost of this device was $11,500.

    After one of the computer labs of the high school was upgraded we had a surplus of 30 350 Mhz computers. During the summer we are usually installing new labs and installing new servers because all of the childeren are gone. Since all of the labs and servers and been installed there wasn't much more for me to do. My boss asked me to strip down the 30 computers and save any usable parts. I was to then recycle the parts that were not needed. I asked my boss if I could use 14 computers to test software on. Without questioning me he said yes.

    For the next week I installed Trustix Linux on the 14 computers along with Squid, configured as transparent, and Sarg. Originally each computer had 128 MB RAM and a 6 GB hard drive. I decided to up the memory to 256 and install a second hard drive in each computer. One drive has the OS installed on it and the other drive is for the cached content.

    After testing each machine I installed them at the schools. School started and the proxies worked great. My boss got a call from a Principal at one of the secondary schools. He asked how our department came up with the money to upgrade our network. My boss told him we hadn't upgraded anything as far as the network goes. He told me about this call during lunch that day and I told him it was because of the Squid proxy servers I had installed over the summer. He said to me with a confused look on his face, "Oh, ok. Well next time you want to install something let me know first." After lunch I showed him Sarg. He was impressed with all of the information available. I think in the future he may be more open to open source software. (Firefox will be my next project!)

    If you have read to this point I thank you. The lesson I learned from this situation was that free open source software is looked down upon by some IT managers or those who make the final decisions. The common wisdom by some is since it's free it must not be good. This concept is hard for a Linux user like myself to grasp. I knew all along that a free and scalable alternative was available but my boss still decided to buy the 3com because it was expensive. It must be good if you have to pay for it right?

    1. Re:The key is Myth busting by Beatlebum · · Score: 1

      Let's hope nothing goes wrong. As soon as the system fuck's up it'll be your fault and you'll be standing in the dole queue.

    2. Re:The key is Myth busting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I learned from this situation was that free open source software is looked down upon by some IT managers or those who make the final decisions. The common wisdom by some is since it's free it must not be good. This concept is hard for a Linux user like myself to grasp. I knew all along that a free and scalable alternative was available but my boss still decided to buy the 3com because it was expensive. It must be good if you have to pay for it right?

      Well, there is a saying that you get what you paid for.

      But in the case of linux, you get what majority of people spent their good effort to develop for their own good. So in this case, good effort + common good pays for itself.

    3. Re:The key is Myth busting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trick is to convince people of something that must seem highly improbable: that there's a large community of people writing or developing open-source software, and a vast community of enthusiastic & helpful users who contribute what they can; that the software is better than the commercial junk, and that the user-community provide better support than any money-oriented set-up.

      The whole concept is too baffling for most people.

      Firefox is, I think, helping to change this... it's an introduction to the notion of a community of computer users helping each other out. Once people use Firefox - see that it's free, clearly far better than that IE rubbish, that people write some great extensions that are freely available, that there's excellent support from the communtiy of users, they can begin to believe what's too good to be true... and when you start to consume these products - let's face it - you want to join in and do what you can to help. The community will grow, and will infringe on MS profits.

      Having said that, a large group of (stupid) people will only ever trust nerds on a 6 or 7 figure salary. They, M$ and malware writers all deserve each other, imo.

  53. Products by zogger · · Score: 1

    I think it can be displayed so even the pointest headed boss can understand it.

    Stop thinking for a moment it's software, and imagine it's a product for sale, just like anything else.

    Here's an example

    Amalgamated Bicycles -- 100$, comes with flats fixed and chain oiled

    Acme Bicycles -- 0$ and do your own maintenance or flats fixed and chain oiled -- 10$

    What is going to win the bicycle market in the long run, given that both are bicycles of at least rough equal "value" to the pedaling consumer, they both work, go from point A to B? What would the "market" pundits say if it was another product with similar criteria?

    1. Re:Products by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      Where does Windows fit in this analysis?

      $100, and it comes with tacks stuck to the tyres to guarantee a minimum of 100 puntures per hour.

      When my neighbour came round the other day and asked "Why does my PC go so slow now?", I told her "The superficial reason is that it has a virus. The underlying reason is cos you bought software from Bill Gates!" Her reply was "If its a virus, wont it get better by itself? You told me not to take anti-biotics when I had a virus, isnt it the same for PCs?" I said it wasn't, so she asked me to fix it for free. I said "I will not give you free support unless you ditch windows! I don't use it and can't support it. Go and ask PC world for the support you paid for"

      (I have not asked if the computer is now working - I hope she has gone to someone else for support).

      A million Penguins are wrong but ...

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  54. Does LinuxWorld really suck, or what? by Animats · · Score: 1
    Is that the most obnoxiously formatted news site on the planet, or what? Their "hunt for the content" approach is truly awful.

    The story is weak, too. No hard news there.

  55. Gartner is old and dying, that we can agree upon by davebarnes · · Score: 1

    Weather UNIX (in any form) is at a tiiping point is arguable.

    What is not is that Gartner and other "offical" "expensive" pundits are a dying breed. Their "probabilities" are no more accurate than others about what will happen.

    These are the pundits who, in 1985, said that only two operating systems would survive in 2000: MVS and VMS. Well, they got the MVS part right. Where is VMS today? Ask Carly and her minions at HP. All it proves is that Gartner is full of highly paid people who know no more about the future than you. ,dave

    --
    Dave Barnes 9 breweries within walking distance of my house
  56. One more thing by einhverfr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The huge stock buyback/dividend they just paid off will have reduced their cash reserves to very little in the end.

    now... what will happen to Microsoft? Will they survive?

    Yes. But it will look very different from Microsoft today. Reminds me of a paper and rubber company called Nokia and a company like Montana Power (which now makes computers). Personally, I think Microsoft will become a media company, but that is just wild speculation.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    1. Re:One more thing by Jason+Earl · · Score: 1

      Good point. Microsoft has to do what it takes to keep their stock price up. Microsoft execs and employees have too much invested to see MSFT drop too precipitously. Microsoft's cash hoard is barely a drop in the bucket compared to the billions in market cap that MSFT has.

    2. Re:One more thing by John+Newman · · Score: 1

      I dunno, MS has over $60B in cash/securities, which is fully one-fifth their market cap. Some unknown fraction of that cap is already owned by insiders and by the company itself, too. And they're generating at least $8B cash a year. I just can't see how the stock can fall very far (more than, say, half) with that much cash propping it up - unless the cash flow dries up first.

    3. Re:One more thing by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      How much was that buyback/divident plan? I thought it was $75B over three years. 8*3=24 (income over three years) + 60 (reserves) = 84 (reserves if they do nothing) - 75 (divident and buyback)= 9 (remaining cash reserves).

      This means that if it occurs to the fullest extent, Microsoft will have only a bit under 1/6th of their current cash reserves at the end. This is very significant.

      You will also note that the market didn't seem to think that it was optimal either as the stock price rose only a portion of the cash divident portion of the plan after the announcement. If Microsoft starts fighting for market share, that 6B may not last as long either because investors won't be happy :-)

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    4. Re:One more thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the stockholders become convinced that MS is never going to grow again, then they are going to demand that cash hoard as a payout.

      Also, Microsoft is already cutting prices to compete with OSS. Think of all those gigantic discounts it is giving to cities and companies that say they are looking at the linux desktop. Those huge profits are going to shrink a lot.

    5. Re:One more thing by gadget+junkie · · Score: 1

      "[microsoft]And they're generating at least $8B cash a year. I just can't see how the stock can fall very far (more than, say, half) with that much cash propping it up - unless the cash flow dries up first."

      "Cash in hand" is a bad predictor of share price, for various reason. If a company "adds value", it should not generally fall below net tangible assets. but if it burns cash at the operating level ,it is not unreasonable to see it trade below net cash per share.

      Now things get interesting. Let's get MS as an example:
      if a company generates cash at the operating level at a 7BN $ yearly rate, and burns 2 BN $ in business ventures it rates as "Investments" (XBOX etc.), what's the net cash generated? for financial analysts, it's 7 BN $ (the 2 bn $ is considered investment).
      Now let's go back in time somewhat:

      BILL: gentlemen, things are not going well. we're trying to get people to pay us an yearly fee for our software, but people are not taking it up. Remember, for Wall Street recurring revenue is worth a s*&%load more than a sale a year. We are making a huge amount of money, but investor now are seeing the end of it, and are getting positively antsy. What can we do about that?
      STEVE: For one, cash should not lay still in our balance sheet. Cash kills, gentlemen. Even Wall Street analyst know that a buck is not worth more than a buck, and this is a big problem. I propose a grandiose investment program and by grandiose I mean B-I-G.

      BILL: WHAT?!? It is MY money you're talking about, you...

      STEVE: stop, and listen: if we just continue to go like this, the stock will be valued at a small multiple of net cash , so why worry? YOU know we will not make half the money we're doing now, in five years' time. And some people have sniffed that. So if we invest the money now, we can dupe analyst into thinking that some of the investments we do will generate gazillions in the future. The trick is to do A LOT of them. Heck, we might just get lucky and have that actually happen. In the meantime, no one of the soothsayers will risk his neck by telling we're finished.

      BILL: Brilliant! Let's go ahead!!

      CROWD: HARRUMPH!HARRUMPH HARRUMPH!!

      --
      "If a boss demands loyalty, give him integrity. But if he demands integrity, give him loyalty." (John Boyd, 1927-1997)
  57. Like no one has said that before by AndroidCat · · Score: 1
    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  58. Re:THE TRUTH by davebarnes · · Score: 1

    Please don't write here if you can not contribute positively to the SUBJECT.

    --
    Dave Barnes 9 breweries within walking distance of my house
  59. Mom-On-Linux (MOL) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The only example I know, is my friend's mom, she's someone that is medical program cdrom install happy. That women aquired so many different apps, looking at here windows program menu was going to make my head spin. It all looks like generic software packs offered at a clearance discount from places like SAMs or the TV.

    I guess where I'm going is that, MOL doesn't work here, because all this crap she bought is for Windows, and I don't need to continue this paragraph...

    OTOH, a lot of these resources and crap applications are being turned into internet accessible apps where the browser is the platform. I tried Turbotax Web with either Mozilla or Konquerer (I can't remember), and it worked great. As others have said, the more of this that goes on, the more irrelevant the underlying OS is.

    I don't see the threat to MS as so much the linux threat, rather than the OSS threat, as it is many OSS apps like apache and firefox that run fine under windows but happen to be crossplatform and standards compliant among other things.

    We all know linux has many advantages given certain circumstances, and overall it keeps getting better. There are plenty of problems that still need to be addressed, but at this point, a tipping-point is at least plausible.

    Personally I'm too much of a wimp to push MOL, but I think things will only get better, in part because so many companies and individuals are working to escape the MS monopoly and provide a viable alternaive. Strangely enough, it seems to be working.

    1. Re:Mom-On-Linux (MOL) by Yaztromo · · Score: 1
      I guess where I'm going is that, MOL doesn't work here, because all this crap she bought is for Windows, and I don't need to continue this paragraph...

      Hey, sounds like it's time for me to start my own Linux distro - M-O-L (Mom-On-Linux) ;).

      (And if it wasn't for the fact I already run an Open Source Project and may soon be starting another one, I might seriously consider it).

      Yaz.

  60. Weather UNIX! by s-orbital · · Score: 1

    http://www.bicoastalhosting.com/
    weather_control_ network_operations_oversight.gif

    --
    Patent: from Latin patere, to be open
  61. Applications are Key by Dan+Farina · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I disagree. They could ALREADY sell a MS shell over a *BSD core, just as Apple has. Linux is not their only option, the BSDs are incredibly robust and advanced operating systems and MS wouldn't have to fight the GPL. I would argue that it would be even be an easier transition than using Linux since it's developed by a smaller and more centralized authority rather than total bazaar style development.

    I would suspect the reason is applications; Microsoft is making money hand over fist on the current 9x/NT based systems, so why try to fix a system that's already pulling in more dough than the corporation knows what to do with?

    Secondly an adoption of a core that was once open source means that without serious overhauling that current *NIX-compatable sources will be (relatively) easy to modify applications to run on "Windows POSIX Edition" That means more applications will be available to your competitors.

    Apple had something to gain from this: they have small market share and were switching to a new kernel in OS X, losing their old applications, but started out with a significant boost because *NIX sources were not terribly difficult (relative to *NIXwindows ports) to coax to run on OS X. Microsoft would be doing the opposite, it would be opening a bunch of vital applications to "alternative" operating systems, making them far better competitors and far more lethal to their dominance.

    1. Re:Applications are Key by ewe2 · · Score: 1

      It's obvious that MS could have used a BSD core, but that would mean writing off the NT base, and directly competing with Apple on a codebase Apple are miles ahead on. But if Microsoft can kill the GPL then it can OWN Linux code without paying court even to BSD egos. They always want the WHOLE thing, not just the bits you think they can have.

      --
      insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
  62. My prediction by crazyphilman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Individual people are starting to get really annoyed about Windows. You hear them kvetching all the time, "My computer screwed up again", "My email's all messed up", "I think I've got a virus or something, my PC's acting funny"... You hear it at work, you hear it on the web. It's a much bigger deal than all these "business pundit" types imagine. People will change the way they do things to avoid aggravation, no matter WHAT they're told to do by Microsoft or the tech pundit of the week.

    Prediction Number One:

    The people who will adopt Linux first are actually the home users everyone thinks will go last. The reasons are easy enough:

    1. It's free.
    2. It's easy enough to install and the UI is familiar enough for them to use it comfortably, especially with KDE. Plus, it does everything a home user typically does (word processing, web browsing, email) much better than Windows would.
    3. It's free.
    4. There is a LOT of info online about how to do Linux-related things, and people are getting used to Googling for information. This is true despite the constant assertion by techno-snobs that Joe Sixpack is too stupid or lazy to do this. Maybe they forgot to tell Joe.
    5. It's free.
    6. Unlike a business, there's no boss to tell you that you can't switch to Linux.
    7. It's free.
    8. Home users will feel cool and hackerish using Linux -- they'll feel they're clued in to something, hip and different. People DO care about this. It turns 'em on, and makes them look cool to their friends. Social capital -- don't underestimate it.
    9. It's free.

    People are going to say this is bullshit. But look how many people are picking up Firefox. It's clear they have the initiative to try new things when they're annoyed enough. And they're definitely annoyed.

    Prediction Number Two:

    People with enough money to buy a Mac are going to switch to Mac OS/X in larger numbers, faster, than the x86 crowd, because of the "cool" factor. Most artists, writers, etc, already use Macs. They're very trendy computers. And the more rich/popular people use Macs, the more regular people will see changing to something different as an attractive thing. So Mac use will foster eventual Linux use among people who can't afford Macs.

    Prediction Number Three:

    The holdouts will be organizations which are averse to change, which move glacially. Governments, for example. Individual departments might switch over, but as a whole, it'll be slow going. I know MY shop will be among the last to change over. There's a whole cultural pro-Windows bias there. I see any transition happening on the server-side first, because we're already running some unix boxen and that transition would be the easiest. We're talking far backend, not middleware or frontend, here.

    Some private companies might be slow to switch over, too, because of their investment in custom software, and their lack of Linux-related expertise. THIS transition is going to be very painful.

    So, here it is in a nutshell:

    Rich/affluent people: Mac OS/X on fast machines.

    Regular people: Mostly switching to some form of Linux, whichever gets buzz for being easiest to install and manage.

    Techies: Linux or OS/X depending on relative wealth. Maybe both in lots of cases.

    Small, fast companies: Linux or *BSD.

    Large, cautious companies: Windows for many years.

    Government: Mixed bag.

    --
    Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    1. Re:My prediction by danny · · Score: 1
      I predict the reverse.

      The early adopters have been techies and ordinary users and small busineses supported by them (e.g. my mother).

      The slowest users to switch the Linux will be the non-technie power users - there are too may games and specialist applications not yet available. Some of these power users may drift to MacOS, but I don't think a huge Windows->Mac shift is going to happen.

      In the business world, the early large-scale desktop Linux deployments will come from POS and other specialised systems, and from large tech companies with obvious motivation (Novell, IBM, etc.) Next will be large companies with locked-down systems running a limited range of apps - maybe some banks.

      Government deployments will be scattered but large-scale, and will help drive corporate uptake.

      The vast bulk of home users won't switch just because of the "cool" factor -- they won't be switching till the apps are there, and the basis for that is going to be government and corporate rollouts.

      But we shall see - it's going to be interesting watching it!

      Danny.

      --
      I have written over 900 book reviews
    2. Re:My prediction by renoX · · Score: 1

      >2. It's easy enough to install

      *Cough* I spent three hours trying to understand how XKB work to be able to make accent with a QWERTY keyboard.. The KDE control window and help weren't helpful so I had to look on the web.

      "Easy enough" right!

    3. Re:My prediction by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      You're talking about one relatively obscure thing. At least here in the U.S. no one uses "accent" and the default installs work perfectly well.

      The fact that one very specific thing is difficult won't affect the rate at which people who don't use it adopt a tool.

      And, anyway, in Europe (I assume this is a European language thing? Like an umlaut or something?) there are plenty of Linux guys -- if this is an issue, someone will fix it. What distro were you using? Maybe you should lean towards a European-origin distro, they probably have this worked out in their default install.

      Or maybe you clicked through the localization part of the installation? They ask you which country you're in, which keyboard you're using, and so forth... Maybe you chose the wrong setting for your country/hardware?

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    4. Re:My prediction by renoX · · Score: 1

      >You're talking about one relatively obscure thing.
      Hmm, accents are quite used on the non-English speaking part of the world which is the vast majority of the world last I looked, so it should not be obscure.

      I'm French and the issue is fixed now but it was RedHat Enterprise 9.

      >Or maybe you clicked through the localization part of the installation?
      It wasn't me who installed it so this is a possibility, but one of the common problem with distros is that there easy to configure during the installation but hard to reconfigure afterwards if the choice made during the installation are not good: the keyboard configuration in KDE/Gnome is not polished enough for normal users.

      I was able to configure the keyboard correctly, but 1) it took me hours 2) the documentation sucks 3) English is mandatory.

      So when I read an article saying that Linux is ready for the 'common users' let me be a little dubious: there is still a severe lack of polish, it works fine when you want to do 'normal thing' but it gets very complicated easily if what you want to do is just a little not frequent.

    5. Re:My prediction by crazyphilman · · Score: 1

      Well, Red Hat's a primarily North American distro, all their defaults target the U.S. That probably explains why you ended up with a set of settings that were a pain. SuSE or Mandrake would probably have been a little more "open minded" if you know what I mean.

      Sorry about implying that non-English languages were obscure. What I was trying ham-handedly to get at was, most of the distros I know are North American (Red Hat, Slackware, Debian I think) so they generally default to English, with a lot of users going for the default. Considering that market, an accent character would be a little obscure, a non-ordinary thing to use. Hope this pulls my foot out of my mouth... ?

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
  63. Re:the same disruptive mechanism will provide driv by xgamer04 · · Score: 1

    Linux works on more "computers" than Windows. Think of all the architectures Linux can run on. You can count the number of architectures Windows runs on on one hand.

    --
    When you look at the state of the world, how can you not become a radical, liberal anarchist?
  64. Linux needs a better desktop by Blondito · · Score: 1

    I think Linux is heading towards tipping point in the server space, (look at the companies like Cisco and what they are producing new software on at them moment) but I don't think Linux will ever reach desktop tipping point without a major change in the way some things are done. There is a very good example of a Desktop Libre software project currently well on its way to tipping point, Firefox , the most important thing to note about Firefox is that it is Firefox doing it not Mozilla. Mozilla has been stable and available for a good few years now but it wasn't till Firefox grew out of it that it became a threat to IE. As most of us know it is because of the speed and ease of use that was introduced through the Firefox project. Linux also needs a change for it to break through in the Desktop space and I believe it is something to re-engineer/replace X-Windows. I have been using Linux for 6 years now and have used it for desktops most of that time , however 1.5 years ago I bought a 12" Powerbook and I haven't really used Linux for anything but servers since. The GUI's of KDE and Gnome are both good and are getting better but there is something severely lacking about the graphical under pinings of Linux that make the, seem cheap and nasty in comparison to the commercial GUI's. Linux on the desktop needs to learn from OSX not Windows Just imagine , (and no this is never gonna happen) if OS X was open sourced , Aqua would take 6 months to become the GUI of choice for alot of unix users and would propel linux into the desktop market like a bat out of hell. The linux community (especially Gnome and KDE) needs to get together and sort out a new or fixed graphical engine to help it go forward into the future.

    --
    Whoever controls the present controls the past, whoever controls the past controls the future
  65. The problem with predictions like this by marktaw.com · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... is that one day they'll be right, and everyone that said it in the past will suddenly be thought of as prophets. If you back enough new trends, eventually you'll pick one that hits the big time.

  66. Linux is it's own failure by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

    If by tipping point you mean Killer App, you're completely correct, except Linux IS the Killer app, look where that got Apple.

  67. eesy peesy by sonictheboom · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Run a small business, just got a couple of P3 Compaqs quite cheap.
    Decided thats its time to push Linux to the great unwashed masses, so installed Mepis on the P3s - took about 20 minutes (maybe 10 clicks of the mouse , did the user name thing, didn't really have to think about it).

    Handed over to the sales guys. Told them - this is your userid, password; this is for web, this is for text documents (you know, Word). Leave.

    An hour later the guys show up on MSN, doing their stuff. No complaints. No questions. No support.

    Maybe Linus is wrong about the Desktop market - can't expect him to be in the know about EVERYTHING. :-)

  68. Old machine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Musta been one of them really old one arm bandits. We use grub nowadays!

  69. Linux growth has never reversed by 21chrisp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think the most important aspect of Linux growth is that it does not seem to have ever gone down. Linux has gradually grown year after year. Now that it is much more mature, it should continue to do the same. Even if it maintains it's present rate, it seems likely that Linux will achieve at least significant market share, if not dominance, in many of our lifetimes.

    Also, the article does not mention that growth rates are almost always exponential. If Linux continues to grow market share like it is, it will begin to grow at a much more rapid rate. The reason for this is word of mouth. Linux share is now in the 3-4% range. That means 3 or 4 people out of 100 use it (on the desktop). That means chances are that the average person doesn't know anyone who actually USES Linux. But once you hit the 10% range, that's 1 in 10 people that use Linux. Suddenly many more people know someone that uses Linux, and many will probably be willing to give a try. Suddenly you're shooting up to 25% share and you're in the trend/fad range. At this point momentum will usually swing completely in your favour. Not are you the trend, you're comeptition is looking poor for losing so much share. Chances are that at this point, market share will flip-flop and the underdog will be the leader. The Desktop OS market isn't like most other markets where there is a lot room for competition. It's very much a single product dominated market. It will likely always be that way. If GNU/Linux succeeds, however, it iss likely to also share a fair amount of success w/ other open source OSes like BSD.

  70. "conservation of integration" == encapsulation by Aneurysm9 · · Score: 1
    This conservation of integration continues to drive the sales growth of Linux wrap-arounds.

    Why can't they just say "encapsulation works"?

    --
    There was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never-ever land.
  71. Of course open source will rule (again) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've always viewed Microsoft as an anomaly in the computing world. In the beginning of computers the source code for the software was always included with the sale of the hardware. This was because in the early days of computing standards weren't yet established, being as new as it was computers were quite buggy and tweaking to the code on site was a necessity. Also, since computers were to perform a single task or narrow range of tasks and were quite new they were put in the hands of computer professionals, those professionals often worked for the computer builder and were contracted out to work on site.

    As computer technology improved then on site support faded, as did the inclusion of source code. But one thing remained, software was developed in tandem with hardware. This has remained true for most computer manufacturers, Apple, Sun, and SGI for example. Closed source software started to become the norm as the software became more complex and the hardware was more easily replicated by a third party. This was done largely to protect trade secrets and assure a continued market for both hardware and software. After all if one cannot assure the ability to be compensated for their work they will find little motivation to continue the work. (This is where I could diverge into software patents but won't.)

    About this time is where Microsoft appears. They are offering an operating system for computers they do not manufacture, creating this divide between hardware and software as a unit. As far as I know this is unique to have a closed source operating system run solely on third party hardware. This has always been a difficult position to hold for Microsoft which forced them to be very aggressive in the sale and marketing of their software. Microsoft does not have the luxury of dictating hardware designs down to the last transistor, so they must design for a wide variety of hardware which leads to difficulties in support and therefore costs rise. They do not have the luxury of hiding the development and support costs of the software in the costs of developing and supporting the hardware either. This leads to the high off the shelf price that we see.

    With open source software the hardware manufacturers involved in making a computer can easily collaborate on the software as both can see the code. When the hardware is made by the same people as the software closed source works well and is often required for numerous economic and developmental reasons. Open source also works well in commodity software. As software matures and comes into wide use it becomes difficult for the hardware/software developer to justify selling the software separately as it becomes expected by the consumer that the computer will be able to perform that task. As the task to be performed becomes common and the software matures it also leaves the developer with the difficult task of making any money on the software as it is for the most part "done". As sales for improvements and bug fixes become more difficult to make it would be almost natural to release the source code so that the last remaining bugs can be tracked down by a willing community, as opposed to keeping a large support staff for the software for closed source maintenance.

    This is now how Microsoft is in trouble of staying in business. The software to perform the most common tasks on a computer is now mature. People expect any new computer they buy to be able to perform tasks like boot from the hard drive, copy files from one directory to another, etc., etc. etc. and do so reliably. These and other tasks traditionally performed by the operating system are so mundane that no one thinks of buying software to perform that task. The ability to present a GUI, communicate with other computers, create various types of documents, etc. are now considered mundane that again one would not expect to actually have to pay extra for those features. Open source simply makes sense for such software.

    Closed source software will continue to exist but

  72. You're missing the idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It isn't that Linux will overtake MS Windows, but that MS will have to change BECAUSE of Linux and that change will neuter most of their abusive power.

    MS will have to give up 85% margins and cannot afford to continue to put $1Bn a year into non-competitive ventures.

    They will be unalbe to change Office formats on upgrade, since there will be the OOo upgrade path that will allow seamless opening of Office docs.

    They will be unable to sell WMV formats to media giants with "you get 90%+ of the deskop market if you go with us". A 60% penetration means they may as well go with Real or Apple than risk handing the keys over to a company that could turn into a rival.

    They won't be able to force MS only shops, since that could remove a large section of the buying public. They could not keep activation, since the pain of changing would be less than he pain of activation.

    I can see MS getting to a 60% level and then changing their work practices and holding there or thereabouts.

    If MS ever get to less than 30%, they will probably close shop and sell assets and cash in.

  73. You just said it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The games are written *exclusively* for windows.

    You can't play Crash Bandicoot on Windows XP, so it will not be a good platform.

    There are games that will work on Linux. UT, Doom, Rune, RtCW, ....

  74. Linux won't take off, its the games stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Linux won't become the king. Most PC are bought and used in a large part to play games. Most games are not going to be for Linux because of the driver issues. DirectX games rule the world.

  75. David Finch and LinuxWorld.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Haha David Finch is very funny, at least to anyone who likes evidence over assertion...how can this article, which on the linuxworld.com main page is headlined "Rumors of Microsoft's Demise Are Premature...But Not Unthinkable conceivably be evidence of a bias in favor of Microsoft FUD???? Nice going David. Now to say that LinuxWorld is also responsible for terrorism and world poverty...

    1. Re:David Finch and LinuxWorld.com by jg21 · · Score: 1

      And here's some more incontrovertible LinuxWorld.com evidence of being a Microsoft shill, perhaps? "Dear Bill Gates, As Evil Geniuses Rate, You Have a Way to Go..." - by the magazine's senior editor James Turner.

  76. why offer the average joe 6 different versions of by budgenator · · Score: 1
    Whoo dude, that's SOP in windows. I've got
    1. GIMP that I've installed,
    2. Gimp 2 that I installed,
    3. PhotoShop esentials, that came with the digital camera,
    4. Ulead Photo Explorer 6.0 that came with a web-cam,
    5. Dell image expert, Paint shop pro,
    6. Presto Mr. Photo,
    7. OpenOffice photo editing capabilities,
    8. MS Office 2003photo editing capabilities,
    9. Paint bundled with WinXP itself by MS.
    And each one of these except the two GIMPs, probably came with their own DLL's potentialy overwriting DLL's in system updatess. So I don't get your point.
    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  77. Re:THE TRUTH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dave Barnes, you are sick little man. You seem almost to be a parody of human life, as your own words and actions mock it so. You sit in a tiny little cubicle wasting your life away, completing whatever asinine tasks your managers have set before you. You run out of your meetings so you can furiously masturbate to the attractive female co workers you know that you will never have. You are the absolute bottom of the barrel. You are below the drug addicts, rapists, murderers and child abusers. The Nazis were wrong in thinking the Jews were the lesser race; you are the lesser race, Dave Barnes. If there is a God, he will surely punish you for making us endure your existence.

    Heil Weisheit, his power is great.

  78. Re:the same disruptive mechanism will provide driv by jeoin · · Score: 1

    oh yeah.
    define works.

    --
    Jeoin
  79. Re:Linux won't take off, its the games stupid by polyp2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am afraid that is simply not the case Most PC's are bought by companies fitting out their offices with servers and general purpose desktops.

    In fact, it is widely beleived that the PC as a gaming platform is declining due to rising problems with piracy and the market dominance of consoles such as the Gamecube, PS2 and XBox by an large offer a much better return on investment than PC games.

    DirectX games do not rule the world. DirectX is a facilitator for games. It doesnt matter whether a game uses Direct3D or OpenGL its the game, and its gameplay that matters most. Also you might have noticed that many of the next gen card manufacturers (NVidia & ATI) are offering OpenGL support in addition to DirectX. You might also notice that many of your favorite 3D games have a video setting for OpenGL. This is something you will find more and more often as it is much easier for software developers to write a Crossplatform/console game using an Open/Crossplatform 3D graphics library than it is with a closed one such as D3D.

    --
    Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
  80. Re:Linux won't take off, its the games stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The games I am playing now REQUIRE Directx 9.0.

  81. the OS is the basis of the cash flow by steve_l · · Score: 1
    Office has the best margins, which makes sense. $300 for what, four-five apps; apps whose core strength is "best in class at reading a format we made up".

    the OS is more expensive -all that beta testing, all those drivers, all those support calls saying ten year old apps dont work property. They have put much more effort into backwards compatibility of binary code than linux has done (where we rely on recompile-your-code as the compatibility process).

    But what does that os bring them. It gives them

    1. fantastic cash flow
    2. $60-100 per PC
    3. ability to dictate the default web browser
    4. ability to dictate the default music format and store
    5. ability to dictate which VM runtime ships with the system -and its .NET instead of Java.
    The OS is justifiable for the control it gives the company, plus it 'encourages' people to develop for windows rather than for other platforms. What hurts them is not so much the linux apps, or a migration to java apps, but web-based apps that dont care what browser you use. Because ActiveX never succeeded, you can go to almost any web site with linux+firefox. And that is what has set us free. It still niggles me that PCs ship with windows; it is interesting to note that the biggest piracy of windows is not end users, but white box system builders who sell PCs prestocked with lots of apps including cracked copies of Word and photoshop. This irritates me, as if people get all the windows junk for nothing, the fact that they can get the linux app suite for the same price -legitimately- is less compelling.
  82. How many "best tool for the job" replies this time by redmoss · · Score: 1

    So as with every "Linux marketshare" article on Slashdot, I'm seeing several replies along the lines of "who cares? I use Linux, I don't care what the rest of the world uses". The whole "market share" question is not about who has "the best tools for the job". It is about who controls the software chokepoints.

    The "who" in this case is the majority software provider, aka Microsoft. Want to play the latest whiz-bang games? Better get Windows. Want to use proprietary small business apps? Better get Windows. Want to run large corporate integrated apps? Better get Windows. Want to install a computer for your Mom, but "it has to have Quicken"? Better get Windows. (Because I'm lazy, let's leave Mac OS out of this for now)

    See the common theme here? For the past 5-10 years, Windows has controlled these "chokepoints". Not because it is the "best tool for the job", but because its unique combination of features, price, etc were what the market favored at that time.

    So, why should this matter to you, who already uses Linux and already have your "best tools for the job"? The answer: maybe sometimes you want to play some of those new whiz-bang games that are coming out, or you want to interact with another small business who uses Windows-only apps, or you work for a megacorp whose executives insist they need MS-BigProject 5.2. See? You are forced to use Windows; it doesn't matter what you would like to use.

    This is why market share questions are important. This is really about computer users who want the freedom not to choose Microsoft products. It is also why the place for "I use the best tool for the job" responses are in other, more technical discussions.

  83. Risk To Developers, Not Users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The most risk-averse people right now seems to be the developers of all those vertical market applications that businesses rely on. Think of all the small (and even medium to large) business and all those specialized apps to tracks customers, inventory, calculate this and that. When those developers re-write their apps for Linux, THEN we'll see a mass migration to Linux. Customers are dying to dump Windows, but they are constrained by lack of vertical market apps.

    Of course you might argue that there are plenty of apps, but most businesses want to stay with the apps they've built their business on (unless it's really crap). Changing apps is the real stumbling block. Giving up your hardware store or law office program is a lot harder than swapping Office for OO.o.

  84. Why I would change by pawnIII · · Score: 1

    Well, I've stuck to XP, mostly cause most of my games and hardware is windows/mac only. But cowdung, or as Microsoft calls it Longhorn, is the first MS OS that I wont use on my personal computer. Personally, I'll probably look at a Mac for my next computer, but will still continue to 'try' linux to see if it would just be better to stick with a PC. Though, the only real distro I've tried is Fedora, haven't had too much luck with it. Especially, with using their GUI automatic update program for downloading/installing new kernels. Hopefully, by the time I go looking for my next computer, Linux will be made for people not good enough to master a command prompt driven OS.

  85. Microsoft isn't in denial. by mfterman · · Score: 1

    I believe that Microsoft is aware that Linux more or less dooms them on the desktop. They can't admit that though. If they admit it, it will mean a defection from their platform. Every businessman knows that you never admit your product is being beaten by another product, you always focus on why people should buy your product, even if you have to make up reasons for it.

    They are quite aware that their long term viability in the desktop market is doomed and they're getting pounded in the server market. They're losing ground in the third world nations and that isn't good for them. Those third world nations can ultimately improve open source software to the point it can hammer products in the first world.

    So they're busy looking for escape routes and shifting to a new business model, and they're going to squeeze as much as they can out of existing markets until they get their escape route set up. Heck, even after they get it set up they will squeeze every last penny they can out if it, just because that makes good business sense. And they will never admit that Windows is an inferior product until they finally pull the plug on it and Office.

    The article states that Microsoft has matured and forget the growth in the PC market that it used to have. The only sensible thing for Microsoft to do is to find a new market to grow in, and that's what they're doing right now. MSN, X-Box, X-Box Online and the Microsoft Media Center are all areas that they're looking to find new sources of revenue and growth in.

    Microsoft has paid attention to what happened to IBM, and I think they are aware that sooner or later the time will come when they have to switch from profits from monopoly leverage to finding some other way to make money. They can't and won't admit it because it would damage their position in the market badly to actually come out and admit it. They don't have a good escape route now, a path to new growth, and until they find it, they have to claim that their current position is strong.

  86. thanks, man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got distracted by my my own boredom and forgot which website would bring me joy tonight...I guess the option which would slow down my internal death the most was /.

    Thanks to your comment, I remembered I haven't read Dilbert for weeks. Now my night of nothingness will at least have the comedy of emptiness singing its song to me for a half an hour perhaps.

    Yay!

  87. Emulation by tepples · · Score: 1

    You can't play Crash Bandicoot on Windows XP, so it will not be a good platform.

    Oh really? This PlayStation emulator runs on both Windows and Linux. Sure, it's not compatible with 100 percent of PS1 titles, but Windows XP SP2 isn't compatible with 100 percent of Windows 98 games either.

  88. Console exclusive titles by tepples · · Score: 1

    Judging an OS by its ability to play the latest games is an excellent way to test it.

    Can Windows XP SP2 play Pikmin 2? What about Fable or the latest GTA? Even with relatively older (3yo) games, what multiplayer title for Windows that doesn't require multiple PCs is as fun for the kids as Super Smash Bros. Melee?

    Windows, YOU FAIL IT.

    1. Re:Console exclusive titles by sn0wflake · · Score: 1

      Can Linux play those games?

      Sorry to have hurt your feelings on Linux.

    2. Re:Console exclusive titles by tepples · · Score: 1

      Linux can't play GameCube games, but it can play the original Half-Life. The point is that sometimes, Windows isn't the game platform it's made out to be.

    3. Re:Console exclusive titles by sn0wflake · · Score: 1

      The point is that sometimes, Windows isn't the game platform it's made out to be.

      Well, there's more games for Windows so it's better. Period.
      Don't get me wrong. I'd like the number of available Linux games to increase.

    4. Re:Console exclusive titles by tepples · · Score: 1

      Well, there's more games for Windows so it's better. Period.

      Are there more single-machine multiplayer games for Windows than for a typical game console? Not all families can afford four PCs, four Windows licenses, and four copies of each game.

      I'd like the number of available Linux games to increase.

      Then write some emulators and port them to Linux.

    5. Re:Console exclusive titles by sn0wflake · · Score: 1

      Are there more single-machine multiplayer games for Windows than for a typical game console?

      I bet there is. Why four PC's?

      Then write some emulators and port them to Linux.

      You stand a better chance of writing an emulator than me because I don't use my time on Linux like you.

      I sense that you take Linux very serious. Good for you. Meanwhile I'll just keep on using Windows. You like Linux, I like Windows. Linux is better at certain tasks like fileserver and webserver, but Linux is not easy enough for everyday users like me to use. I *hate* console commands. If I wanted to type stuff in a console I'd use Linux or DOS.
      Just my two cents.

  89. Bug bounties by tepples · · Score: 1

    Consider, for instance, an average user of a mail program muttering to him/herself [a request for enhancement]. Suppose that person could post $100 improvement fee to a website, where it might be merged with similar requests from other users and leads to a new extension to be developed by an independent developer...

    You can make this happen by submitting a patch for bug 124096 at bugzilla.mozilla.org.

  90. Some people have different tastes by tepples · · Score: 1

    The games I am playing now REQUIRE Directx 9.0.

    The games I am playing now REQUIRE a Game Boy Advance.

  91. PC multiplayer without LAN parties? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Why four PC's?

    Most popular multiplayer PC games seem to require a PC, or at least an X terminal, for each player. Console games such as Super Smash Bros. Melee, on the other hand, put four players on four input devices, one STB, and one screen.

    Linux is better at certain tasks like fileserver and webserver

    And gameserver?

    1. Re:PC multiplayer without LAN parties? by sn0wflake · · Score: 1

      And gameserver?

      Yes, and gameserver. Battlefield 1942 and Counter-Strike: Condition Zero are great when hosted on Linux.
      Now we just need those games and other to run on Linux.