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Mass Transit Meets The Incredibles
Chuckstar writes "Salon.com has an article about SkyWeb Express, a futuristic-looking mass transit system similar to the monorail in the evil villain's secret lair in The Incredibles. What is unique about this system is that individual 3-passenger cars travel independently between stations, which are located on side-tracks so cars only need to stop at the final destination. Apparently, the system is relatively cheap to install, cost efficient per passenger mile, and much more flexible than traditional mass transit. The New York Post covered the topic last month."
Mono-doh!
Apparently, the system is relatively cheap to install, cost efficient per passenger mile, and much more flexible than traditional mass transit.
Flexible it would be if Elastigirl helped to invent it!
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Why in the heck is the word "Web" in SkyWeb?
"Ha ha! We will put the word 'web' in our product's name! It has a computer! From the future!"
an eeeeevil monorail?
Regards, Ian
"travel independently between stations", "cheap to install "cost efficient per passenger mile" "much more flexible than traditional mass transit" Gauranteed to never be implemented anywhere
If you forget about the future, the future will forget about you.
Maybe Lenard Nimoy is available for the opening.
This is what the 'self driving car' should be.
I'm sure that I recall reading about this a couple of months ago, and the question that immediately came to my mind is: what do you do if you have more than three or four passengers? Families of five need not apply and so on.
www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
This is far better than both a "mass transit" train or a car.
For a better and simpler solution look to Curbita's bus system in Brazil. They just set aside roads for bus only, give them chrome boxes so they always get a green light, and make the bus stop the pay station so you can load and unload quickly. A system like Curbita requires nothing more than a better bus stop and large doors and moves more people than a subway at a fraction of the cost. Their system cost $.25 a ride and makes a profit.
Perhaps when all is said and done, the transit routes will be connected to each other, in the same sense of the "world-wide web" and computers.
The other is, never do a movie when Vicini is a manager over insurance agents!!! Hahahahahah!!! *gasp* /dead
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
Sure, part of your vehicle would vaporize and you would probably be centrifuged into your constituent molecules on turns, but just think how fast you could get where you wanted to go?
P.S. I loved "The Incredibles". Thank you pixar for consistently violating the Hollywood tradition of making sucky movies.
When things get complex, multiply by the complex conjugate.
Several (at least 5) years ago there was talk of a similar system to serve Bristol, a largish city in the UK. The idea was for small "pods" (as they were called) to carry around 5 passengers at a time to various destinations along a tram line. Aside from concerns about vandalism, I believe at the time it was thought impractical, and shoved away in favour of a normal tram (which was then denied funding...).
For those of us who don't have a premium subscription and don't want to watch an ad:
Car ports
How those eerily beautiful bubble cars in "The Incredibles" may well appear in our not-too-distant future.
By Priya Jain
Nov. 19, 2004 | In "The Incredibles," the eponymous superhero family spends much of the movie trying to either escape or infiltrate the villain's high-tech island lair. Among the creepy sci-fi elements -- parrots with camera eyes, a destructive robot that can strategize -- is the beautifully eerie monorail that silently glides around the volcano, transporting the villain's henchmen in small round cars. The heroes occasionally hitch a ride on one of these moving pods while battling the forces of evil.
In real life, we may not have superheroes, but soon we will have those little monorail cars, zipping commuters and shoppers (and maybe an occasional henchman) from point A to point B. They're part of a system called Personal Rapid Transit, or PRT, which is poised to replace the more expensive, less environmentally friendly and frequently less convenient mass transit systems of old.
What really makes PRT different from mass transit is that it combines the convenience and luxury of a taxi with the efficiency of subway and bus travel: Rather than packing into a large carriage with a hundred smelly strangers, with PRT you get a private car. Instead of stopping at every station on the line, you zip straight to your final destination. And the visual impact -- replacing the bulky steel trains and buses with sleek bubbles that look like mid-century creations from the designer Arne Jacobsen -- appeals to any kid who dreamt of being a Jetson, or now, an Incredible.
Leading the way in the PRT revolution is the Minnesota-based Taxi 2000 Corporation, founded in 1983 by Dr. J. Edward Anderson, a former NASA engineer who turned his attention to transit in 1968. After studying the problems with conventional mass transit, he developed SkyWeb Express, which is poised to be the first commercial PRT system in the world.
Anderson claims SkyWeb Express beats mass transit in every way: It's greener, more convenient, safer and visually more acceptable, since the cars and rail are streamlined and small (observe this comparison between the New York subway and a SkyWeb system). The cars, unlike the round pods in "The Incredibles," are egg-shaped, and allow enough room for three to four people plus their shopping bags, luggage and wheelchair or bicycle. They run on synthetic rubber tires, which reduce noise pollution, along a monorail guideway that's 3 feet wide by 3 feet deep. And because the system is powered by 600-volt DC electricity, it produces no emissions.
As Taxi 2000 imagines the scenario, commuters would enter the station, purchase a fare card and head to the platform -- just as one does now with most rail systems. But instead of waiting for a train to come by, passengers would hop into one of the empty cars that are idling in the station, swipe their card and enter a destination code. Because stations are positioned "offline" -- that is, the rail runs next to the station, not through it -- cars can pull into stops without slowing down traffic.
SkyWeb Express may also be the answer to the seemingly impossible quandary that every environmental advocate faces: how to make green technologies cost-effective. Taxi 2000 estimates that installation of SkyWeb Express would cost $10 million per mile -- nearly five times less than the cost of light rail and 10 times less than heavy rail. And operating costs at 38 cents per passenger mile (compared to $3.43 for heavy rail and $1.42 for light rail) mean that SkyWeb Express could operate on a break-even basis -- and therefore without the government subsidies that mass transit, which operates at a loss, relies on. The guideway also weighs less and is easier to assemble than light or heavy rail, and in fact the guideway can be installed by an ordinary fork-lift truck, only minimally disrupting regular traffic and there
What is unique about this system is that individual 3-passenger cars travel independently between stations, which are located on side-tracks so cars only need to stop at the final destination.
Seems like it's out of Logans Run. Nice idea, bringing the convenience of personal transportation with the benefits of mass transit.
A Human Right
When will technology like this actually be put into production in a major American city?
2020? 2030? Never?
I'm really getting completely jaded by hearing of all of these wonderful things being developed, which will be put into production Real Soon Now(TM)...
What about those machines that make just about anything into oil? How many plants based on those things are currently operating in the US? One? Two? Maybe THREE? What percentage of our oil production does that account for? 0.01%? Maybe 0.02%? Maybe less?
Color me skeptical, but inertia has taken such a hold in human endeavors (at least, here in the US) that I get really upset whenever I read of all of these wonderful things which are supposedly coming up "just along the pike", as it were, but which I have to remind myself I will never see in operation in my life.
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
It looks cool, but what happens if your car breaks down? There doesn't appear to be an emergency exit walkway.
But that may be moot: If your car breaks down or comes to an abrupt halt, do you get smashed by the car behind you?
Make no mistake; I think it's cool as hell. But I'd want to know how their system, "handles exceptions."
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
First, there is more than one car on the system. If you have more than three, take extra cars.
But why three, and not four, or five? The reason I've read in the past is this:
Three is the smallest number of occupants that guarantees that no members of a group need to ride alone.
If the cars held two, and your group of three arrived, then someone would have to ride by themselves. Not fun, and socially difficult.
It's true that if the cars held four, the same system would work (five people go in three and two). There is, however, significant expense to adding another passenger space. You'd either have to make them wider. This would increase the space between the railings, and the overall construction cost in addition to the car cost. You could add another row of seats, but that would increase the complexity and cost of the car.
Three is the right number.
-Zipwow
I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
I can already see teenagers "renting" a pod, covering the windows and circling the city over and over and over . . .
Seriously, this might be one of those things like monorails that are built simply because they look futuristic. But they've had a pretty bad record in actual operation, especially in the sort of constant intense daily service that is needed for public transportation. And their cost estimates tend to be somewhat off, though they may just be optimistic for lack of sufficient examples. But monorails, such as the Las Vegas monorail, tend to cost about as much as elevated light rail, if not more. The Las Vegas monorail also opened only after many months of delays, and has now out of service for 3 months after a wheel fell off a train. So I think PRT will stay "poised to replace subways" for a while yet. And if they really did work, then where are the examples?
And other than the technical problems, somehow nobody notices the obvious social one. If you have privacy in a public vehicle, what's to stop you from befouling it in some way? Also, it would be a handy terrorist tool. Just put the bomb in and set the car to go to the target.
It would be interesting to see how they design stations which have a large amount of congestion at various times of the day. I'm guess their graphic is a typical station, but the waiting traffic would easily overrun the main track in even the smallest city.
:)
Perhaps they can just get away with making the station rail longer? A by-passible loop or two that are introduced during rush hour? (Or when someone cracks into the control system
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
The article states that because the cars are powered with electricity, there is no pollution. This really irks me. While there may be no local pollution or emissions, that doesn't mean that the source of the electricity isn't polluting. If the source is solar or wind power, that's great, but in many (most?) cases the source is more likely to be a coal or gas plant, which are definitely not non-polluting.
I'm not saying I don't think this is a great idea, because I think it's terrific. But to say that it is non-polluting probably isn't true.
More sugar!
Small cities (cities up to 150,000 people) -- generally are contained within a three or so mile radius, so it would make sense to connect malls, grocery stores, and civil services with the system. Some people could use it without having to use a car, some would be able to use it just for the daily commute.
Medium cities (cities up to 500,000 people) -- still a good option, but would probably be used differently. More reliance on cars to get to parking lots that would then use these things to shuttle passengers between the most often visited places (mass transit, some shopping centers, airports, city center). Good coverage of downtown areas would reduce traffic issues there.
Large cities (cities over 500,000 people) -- Too expensive to build and too many places to potentially have to get to. Light rail is a better option for transporting this many people. Other mass transit systems may overlap (water taxis, buses). System would probably only end up serving a small fraction of the city for a small fraction of destinations. Commercial centers are far too large (and distributed) to serve effectively.
Comments, questions, flames?
-Rob
Marriage doesn't have to suck!
This sounds very much like the maze cars of Logan's Run fame.
"Stop whining!" - Arnold, as Mr. Kimble
My first thought about a weakness here is during rush hour. How will the system handle a very popula destination station where there are more vehicles waiting to unload their passengers than the station has spots at the terminal for, and room on the side-track? Seems this would back up the transit track. It just doesn't seem like the system could handle the sheer volume of a metropolitan rush hour (I'm using Wash., D.C. and the METRO system as my point-of-reference).
but which I have to remind myself I will never see in operation in my life.
...before you passed away.
WVU PRT
- Hail to our fearless misleader! Fool speed ahead!
Erm -- If the stations are a mile apart -- that puts you a maximum of a HALF-Mile away from any given station. That is of course using linear measurement. If it's a 1 mile grid and you're in the exact center, then you've got a 0.707107 mile to any of four stations. So from the exact center of one to the exact center of another would be a 1.414214 mile walk. The theory is that there would always be cars in each station -- so while you would have to walk .7 (max) to your station, you would be able to get in a car and head for your destination immediately. The tracks are set up to be one way -- so you may need to do some looping around (longer trip) but it should be non-stop -- trip time should be much shorter than bus.
Is this workable? Maybe, it probably depends in large part upon location. To me it seems like a possible solution to road expansion in certain areas. Will the road construction lobby work hard to make sure it's stillborn? You bet.
(Check the funding for debt -- derail the bullet train group in florida)
WVU PRT
- Hail to our fearless misleader! Fool speed ahead!
Note to SkyWeb PR division: I downloaded and saw your video. Some notes:
Basically, it needs better production values.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
the Denver International Airport baggage handling
system. While they worked the bugs out of that,
baggage got destroyed, dumped into strange places,
put on the wrong flights, and so on.
You too can experience this now, personally.
Curbita = Curitiba, right?
I don't have a sig.
This SkyWeb system is the application of packet-switched networks to material transport. Just as trains and telegraph/phone networks were circuit switched, and changed the world by globalizing the industrial revolution, so can these transport networks change the world again, just like ethernet/Internet changed the world of telecom.
The real changes will come once we've got new applications for these rails, not just adaptations that fix bugs in the old rail circuit apps. One real improvement could be in deliveries: the city could charge vendors bulk rates for off-peak delivery capacity. That could link rail/ship terminals to an intracity network of automated deliveries. You could schedule delivieries to your local station, and pick up the cargo after tracking its realtime delivery, from a locker with your onetime password. That kind of "bulk mail" fee could subsidize the entire system, just as bulk mail now subsidizes the postal system. Leveraging the efficiency of the municipal network to cut costs and increase reliability. And the people routing apps, like emailing an invite, with a prepaid routeplan attached, which is messaged to the car with the push of an embedded button, could get all attendees to and from your event without confusion, delay or complication. Let's get this 21st Century on!
--
make install -not war
What? I was there this summer and it was still running. It was my favorite ride. Just sit back and relax. You actually get goin' pretty fast. As we came around one time we told the guy we were just gonna take another trip. There's plenty of space and little crowd draw.
-- i am jack's amusing sig file
My theory of graffiti is that it's from people who have low self esteem and don't think that they can leave a mark on the world in any but the most literal sense.
Step 1: Look at the size of the stations shown in the article or the animation.
Step 2: Look at the size of the typical shopping center parking lot, or the size of a typical commuter rail parking garage.
At certain times of the day you are going to need a lot more cars leaving one of these stations than you have arriving. At other times of the day you are going to have a lot more cars arriving at a station. You either need very large stations at some locations, or you need empty cars moving around all the time, or you need one or more large storage/maintenance areas with an efficient dispatch system.
A system similar to this is in operation at WVU: Pictures and story This is a good system, but it's slow, and showing it's age. But as a prior student at WVU I can say it works much nicer than a bus or other option.
Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but you should read more about it. The reason why it's not at all like the elevator scheme is that you pay for the car, not for the individual ticket. Just like a taxi, you get to decide how many people get in, since you paid for the ride. This doesn't solve pushing and shoving in line waiting for a car, but I haven't seen a public transit system anywhere that solves that problem. The problem with elevator and subway shoving is that nobody pays for a unit of space, merely for the privilege of riding. Sadly, that translates into complete disregard for the other occpants. However, consider the busiest taxi stop that you know. For me at least, pushing and shoving ends when somebody clearly has the car. I've been following this system for 4 years, and although it does have some flaws, it certainly beats the pants off of any current transit system I've ever seen. questions? responses? bring it on! -Dan
I'm not so sure about that--they may just have been really stupid people, a possibility which can never be discounted. However, a quick Google search on "mass transit social agenda" comes up with gems like this:
It isn't hard to find these sorts of problems, as anyone who has ever ridden a bus to work regularly knows.
--Tom
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.