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The Tech Support Generation
prostoalex writes "Newsweek technology columnist Brad Stone is looking forward to the Thanksgiving dinner with his family next week, spending time in candle-lit rooms, preparing holiday shopping lists and... let's admit it - fixing the folks' computer. 'We are the Tech-Support Generation. Our job is to troubleshoot the complex but imperfect technology that befuddle mom and dad, veterans of the rotary phone, the record player and the black-and-white cabinet television set. Next week, on our annual pilgrimage home, we'll turn our Web-trained minds and joystick-conditioned fingers to the task of rescuing our parents from bleeding-edge technology on the blink', Brad Stone writes. In related news, what other products besides Google Desktop Search, Spybot Search & Destroy, Google Toolbar and Service Pack 2 are Slashdotters installing on their parents' Windows machines?"
Firefox & Thunderbird. Saves you lots of trouble.
Debian
NOT service pack 2.
> In related news, what other products besides
> Google Desktop Search, Spybot Search & Destroy,
> Google Toolbar and Service Pack 2 are Slashdotters
> installing on their parents' Windows machines?"
GNU/Linux
Votez ecolo : Chiez dans l'urne !
When I'm showing something to my parents, I always notice that they are very slow in using mouse, clicking icons, etc, it frustrates me most.
My parents are smarter than I am.
They have Macs!
I won't let them use Windows purely because it would get trashed with spyware, adware and trojans, instead, they get a Slack 10 / KDE install and a nice low UID user with SSHd setup so I can log in as root remotely and fix anything if needed, and easily upgrade and install applications and the kernel.
She's built like a steak house, but she handles like a bistro....
Linux.
Suse 9.1 on my parents hp.
Also on my friend's computer i built for him a couple years ago.
They use office/internet. That's it.
Why use windows? A few pros. Many, many cons.
And here is our General Fix-all-our-customers-problems cd we send out
IE6sp1 full
IE55 full
IE517 full
IE_Reinstall_bat (batch file that reinstalls ie using run dll)
IE secure site fix
Winxpsp2
winxp winsock fix (rebuilds winsock using registry)
winxp individual critical fixes
Ad-aware
Ad-aware/spybot definitions
Spybot
Coolweb killer? removal? Shredder? Can't remember offhand
AVG anti-virus (highly recommended)
McAfee AVERT stinger (even more highly recommended)
norton's varius virus removal tools (fix sobig, fix blaster, etc)
Win2k Sp4
Firefox
Thunderbird
AdAware
Firefox
That Gator thing I love so much
Google Toolbar
I dont install that on anything. Not because there is anything bad about it, but because then you can't disable "Third party browser enhancements" in IE... Which means that it's even easier for spyware to get in. (Yes I know this doesn't disable BHOs...)
Thats what I thought to myself when I bought my parents a used original style imac (the second generation ones with the slot loading drives...no tray to break). It's perfect for them. Not only does my mother like the blue color, but it's also fast enough for what they want to do, like surfing the net, email, and typing. The only thing I needed to do was install Mozilla. After that, no adware to worry about, no virus to protect from, no hackers getting in, no complex problems...if the thing craps out, you pop the imac recovery cd in and in 10 min or less your up and running again. And for the low cost of $300 bucks.
Show your parents you love them. Buy them an iMac. (And get it used..they're cheap and reliable and all they need.)
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
I usually get flamed for this, but I just do NOT do family tech support any more. The appreciation doesn't always exist for the work put in, the expectations are as high as any job I've had, and it just...never...stops... I've been through the worst of it, not having a free weekend with my friends for weeks at a time, having weeknights with my partner disturbed constantly, and feeling like I'm moving from 9 to 5 work just to come 'home' and face more of the same.
Maybe it comes from having a really large extended family of people who just don't want to know how computers should/shouldn't work, but it's just too much sometimes. Strictly my mother and sister now, nobody else.
I've found that near complete ignorance of Windows is my best defense. I've not been a serious Windows user since 1994. So when someone asks me for assistance with their Windows problem I can quite truthfully say:
"I'm sorry, I don't know how that works."
Don't get me wrong, I make my living in tech. I code in between 8 and 12 languages (depending on how good my memory is that day), can play a medium grade Linux/Solaris guru when necessary, write web apps, architect large distributed systems, operate a wide variety of service provider and enterprise networking equipment, etc. I also like helping people who are having technical problems. But there's a big difference between being the IM of last resort for various Linux/Python,etc problems and having to deal with Windows users.
However, whereas I'd like to give them a Linux box, they are used to using PCs with a WIndows 95 / XP interface from their PC and the local library. As they, especially my dad, have trouble getting to grips with new tools, I think I will have to compromise and install Windows for them.
I know that even after making it as secure as I can and giving them a quick list of don'ts (open attachements, etc) that it won't be as secure, but as they're both retired there is no business critical data there. I think that their ease of use will be more important than trying to move them away from Windows.
We are indeed the techsupport generation, but it doesn't have to be that way. We recently got "No I will not fix your computer" T-shirts ( http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/frustrations/388b / ) at work as a fun gift. It has proved really useful. You don't have to say no, pople just stops asking you. Works great.
The only tech support I've had to do after getting (and wearing) this T-shirt, was for a really desperate aquaintaince with a wifi setup problem. I got two full-size fresh lobsters for fixing that, and I didn't even ask for anything.
I do make an exception for my own folks though, but now they are the only ones.
"There is no substitute for thinking" - Bjarne Stroustrup
"So, what sites you've been surfing lately, gramps ? "
My girlfriend runs a Mac, my parents run an old P2 machine with Fedora installed and locked down and when asked to support friends computers I tell them "sorry, but I don't work on MS Windows machines".
I will (for free) wipe MS Windows and install Linux on any friends machine but my days of providing free support for Bill G are over.
I find this cuts down on the support calls and I can then enjoy Thanksgiving.
Ed Almos
Budapest, Hungary
The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. - Tacitus, 56-120 A.D.
Here is what I'm installing.
My Greasemonkey scripts for Digg &
PearPC?
My mother's computer is a constant source of disputes. As soon as I've started helping her, she decided she could entirely rely on me and I started to waste my week-ends fixing her computer.
Usually, people think a computer is like a wash machine. They refuse to learn, they just want to push the button and it should work; if it breaks, call the mech. My mother lost several times files because she didn't take the pain to save them on a floppy disk or on a CD-ROM.
Well, after a few weeks like that, I finally told her that in order to drive a car, you need a licence, you don't ask others to come over and drive your car each time you want to go to the supermarket.
On the bright side, my 90 year-old grandfather has bought a computer last summer, and I spent a week during holidays teaching him how to use the basics of mail, wordprocessing, saving, printing and net surfing. We wrote together a complete 12 pages course together (with screen prints), and I'm proud to say that he can use these tools alone now.
From my experience Ad-Aware misses some stuff that Spybot will catch. Better to use both, to avoid problems.
I'll be upgrading them to Mandrake 10.1 official - they are already on Mandrake 10 and are extremely happy with it. Mother in law is on Mandrake 9.2 ,uncle in law Mdk 10, and my aunt is on - yes, Mandrake 10.
Just wondering - if lots of other Slashdotters are doing this kind of thing, are we now seeing the growth of the Linux desktop amongst non-tech users, which just isnt covered by Gartner style estimates.
I know there's all the Windows hating going on here, and I think it's adorable sometimes, but there's a lot going for Windows that means I won't be giving my parents some flavour of Linux for a while. I know, I know, "an unpatched Winblows box will be hax0red in 30 seconds!!!111", but the fact is it won't be unpatched because of the auto-updates. I stuck it behind a Netgear Router/ADSL modem/WAP/Firewall and put some AV software on there. There's been no problems. They don't even get spam, and I don't mean they don't get it after going through Bayesian-Freudian-Pseudomatronic filtering, I mean they just don't get it. Unless the occasional monkey-drinking-own-urine email from an acquaintance is considered spam, and I like to think it is.
Even if they need to do something really difficult, like install new drivers, it's just a double click on the setup file. I tried installing ATI drivers in Mandrake a few months ago. I'll let you all know how it went when I figure out how to get X working again. I can't even get my parents off IE and onto something much better, like Firefox, because it's still not quite there. Example: My Mum had to fill in this great big form to submit an offer to a potential client, and Firefox couldn't do it because of the javascript involved. Okay, that's probably shoddy coding on the form's part and nothing to do with Firefox, but my Mum doesn't care about who's in the wrong when she's got to do something vital for her business and it won't work. My dad has been working for what was ICL in the 70s and he's still got limited, at best, technical ability. But when he gets into Excel or Visio he knows how to do all the graphs and charts, so who am I to take that away from him? How's he going to figure out how to do an organisational chart in calm pastel management colours in something else? I know I could use Crossover Office or something, but why go to all the hassle of setting up Linux to emulate Windows, when I can just use Windows without a problem.
I don't like MS all that much, and they get up to some pretty dodgy stuff sometimes, but there's a reason why everyone keeps buying their stuff aside from the fact that they bought up all the competition. Some of it is actually fairly good.
This comment was formatted for readability, but I forgot the line break tags
Your parents are computers?
I wish my parents listened, they just said I'm paranoid, bought a new computer, and won't give me the password.
Best free software out there, if you ask me. Just make sure you set it up to never die (windows service options: on fail, reset..)
No more running home to fix anything... even printer diagnostics can usually be fixed via phone (unless its some weird HW anomaly..)
I won't set up a dependant (on me) user without it.
Oh, and don't forget cygwin & sshd... helpful for when you don't have crazy bandwidth, and its a simple fix, checkup, whatever..
Codito, ergo sum.
So the only tech support I have to do is explain how to use applications. I don't need to repair or rescue anything.
Back before the Internet became popular, I used to preach about backups, about how the "easy" way was to listen to me; the "hard" way was to lose something vital.
All smiles, nods, agreement. Not a single person acted on this though.
I gave up when I realised that most people simply Do Not Learn the "easy" way.
I let my family members run Windows if they want, but I tell 'em that if they do, I can't help them with it. I haven't used Windows since '96 or '97, and even then, I only used it for games, and wouldn't allow it to install the modem drivers, much less connect to the internet. I have no idea how to make a Windows system safe and secure, nor do I have any interest in learning.
So, instead, I have a standing offer. Anyone in my family who's sick of viruses and spyware and the other ills of Windows can get my help setting up and maintaining a Linux box. So far, only my completely-computer-illiterate aunt has taken me up on it (after a major fight with viruses), but she's been so happy with the results that I think some others may come around soon.
My family has interesting misconceptions about my capabilities, and I assume this is true of a lot of people here. I have a degree in CS, I make my living programming computers, but I don't know jack about troubleshooting Windows. I run a Mac at home because it's simple to fix when it breaks. The skillsets of a good programmer and a good technician don't overlap nearly as much as people think. Yet, everybody thinks I should know how to fix all of their Windows problems.
So, I tell them that I'm like an engineer. I do the computer equivalent of building bridges, designing cars, etc. What they're asking me to do is the computer equivalent of repairing their car after the engine compartment started smoking. They wouldn't expect a bridge designer to be able to fix their car engine, and so they shouldn't expect a programmer to be able to fix their computer. Once they get the idea that I might be able to do something, but it's really not the kind of thing I'm good at, everybody is a lot happier.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
After the most recent iteration of fixing problems with my parents machine, I gave them a Knoppix cdrom and told them this will be their next OS if they break their Windows install again.
I got my Dad an eMac.
The result?
- No more support calls
- The first computer my Dad's enjoyed using
- No more rats nest of cables
The other result is when it was time to get a laptop for myself - after using OS X, it had to be a PowerBook.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
You insensitive clod, not all people want NT 4 SP2 on their win 98 boxes.
Seriously though, the first thing which goes on is the latest McAfee Stinger. When that's wiped out most of the viruses, I uninstall their out-of-date Norton - so many people don't realise that the major antivirus vendors are on a rental model and just buy the product and expect it to last forever. Then Avast! Personal Edition goes on, and the PC is fully scanned. After that comes Spybot and Ad-Aware. I use both because each product has its stregths and weaknesses. All of this is done form a CD burnt with the latest patterns so no internet connectivity happens until their PC has been cleaned. And then Sygate Personal Firewall completes the mix of security products.
After that comes Thunderbird and Firefox, The GIMP and Audacity (if they are into that sort of thing. And of course we musn't forget IrfanView.
Not least because they have a very good support forum. Pattern updates are very timely too and its impact on the performance of the boxes I've put it on is minimal.
..would people ask me to come hang up their pictures? Level their doors and floors? Build their shed?
Would they do it without offering to pay me?
Unable to read configuration file '/bigassraid/htdig//conf/14229.conf'
Geocrawler error message.
my sister uses debian, and I visit her every 4 or 6 months, and everything is in the same good state as before: she writes documents in openoffice, prints then, downloads videos with mldonkey, watches them with mplayer, burns them with k3b.
but she wants games for her son - so I allowed debian to dualboot with win95 (grub). and I don't touch win95 on her computer at all. She uses a husband of her friend for that. He reinstalls it every few months, to get the games running :>
I don't have time to run wine with directx support on her box, heck I even didn't done that on my machine, let alone someone's else machine.
#
#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
#
I'll clean the virus and update your system. While I'm doing that you can change the oil in my car, rotate the tires, and hey, how about freshening up the wax job while you're at it? And don't forget to vacuum out the interior and rub on some armor-all.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
I tell my family that I won't help them with Windows. Sure, I could help, but I won't. I turn away people who offer to pay me for help with Windows - why on Earth would I do the same work, on a holiday, for free?
Oh sure, they do the same to me. My brother refuses to help me maintain my nuclear reactor, even though I know he could do it with one hand tied behind his back.
from when people first got cars and the mechanically-inclined relative was expected to help keep it running. The price of knowing what to do is being asked to do it.
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
and then they will not take your expertise for granted:). After hooking up my entire close and extended family with computers for free (I usually pass my old computers (+$100 for reasonale upgrades) to them when I buy new stuff) this is what I found out:
0. Don't waste your time explainig to them what the problem is because they don't have the patience to listen to the entire explanation you are more than willing to give to them.
1. After fixing a problem you are blamed for ALL the other problems that will happen following the origial problem.
2. Unless a speed improvement is more than twice on a benchmark, people over 50 will not notice it, so don't waste time and money switching them from ATA66 to ATA133.
3. Any CPU over 1.5Ghz + 512M is an overkill.
Why use Thunderbird if you've got Mozilla? I thought most people used Firefox/Thunderbird or Mozilla, particularly since Mozilla has difficulty interacting with a seperate mail client. Or did you mean Firefox?
Why is anything anything?
Rather than asking what to put on to protect them, how about "What can I put on my family's computers so they won't notice when I change the OS to Linux"?
I have my parents already running OO and Moz, and they don't really use their computer for much else.
If not for that goddamned "Chip's Challenge", I could change them over to Linux today and they wouldn't even notice.
Anyone know of a Linux port/clone of CC? A Flash or SW version would suffice...
My parents have Macs, too. I bought them for them on the theory that they would be easier to use and require less effort to support.
Unfortunately, they still require a lot of work to support: printing has all sorts of problems, software tries to update itself and fails, Apple software tells you to buy the next version, etc. The Macintosh UI is remarkably unintuitive unless you are a Mac-head. Macs are a little better than Windows overall, but mostly just because they have bits and pieces of UNIX left in them.
A huge disadvantage of Macs is that they keep complaining that all their other friends have all this great Windows software that they can't run.
Linux is good enough now that their next machines are probably just going to be Linux machines: it's easier to maintain than either Macintosh or Windows, and Linux comes with huge amounts of software out of the box, software that, even if you have the money to buy for Macintosh or Windows, is a pain to install and maintain on those other platforms.
O you think thats bad. I go to a small Private school with only about 100 students. I AM tech support at my school. Im constantly being brought out of class to fix the principles printer(reinstalling drivers), or to swap the CD-ROM drive of an old win-95 machine with one of the many defunct computers donated over the years, and even once to reset a admin password because the guy never came back and there server went offline. Im 16 and will be graduating next year and one of my requirements is 90 hours of community service, which im getting day-by-day. O, and to be on subject, i've turned all the schools computers onto firefox, and my principle loves that tabbed browsing!
When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up... reading.-Henny Youngman
I think I still have a copy of Microsoft Bob somewhere...believe it or not, it'll run on XP! :P
You're using her as bait, Master!
I've helpted my parents with their Windows box a lot of times, but the worst experience was stumbling across dad's p0rn stash with mom looking over my shoulder, then having to make up lies, like a bribed expert witness about how a hacker probably put them there, and I've seen that stuff happen before etc. Followed up with tutorials on clearing browser cache/history etc. which my dad was overly interested in.
This is a little off-topic, but allow me to rant. I do home computer support professionally, which means that these days I'm basically a professional spyware cleaner. I've come in numerous times after techie family members supposedly cleaned up a machine, only to find they didn't do a very good job.
So please, if you are going to clean spyware up for your family, you should know the following:
1. As good as Spybot and Ad-aware are, neither is comprehensive. Run both. And you're still probably going to be missing some things (see #3 below).
2. After getting spybot and ad-aware installed with the latest updates, set a system restore point (if the OS supports it and system restore is working), and then *reboot into safe mode*. Running the cleaners in safe mode is much more effective than with all the junk running, and you won't end up rebooting and re-scanning to get open files. If you get warnings that there are files that can't be cleaned because of a running process, use a boot cd of some sort to delete it manually... much faster than running a re-scan.
3. After Spybot and Adaware *think* the machine is clean, use the "advanced" tools in spybot to examine the BHO, ActiveX, Startup and LSP lists to be sure. Don't recognize something? Google it. Chances are, if it's not in google, it doesn't belong. If it's a startup item, be sure to delete the target file (or files). The Spybot ActiveX deletion feature doesn't work so well... delete those manually from the location referenced. This usually is necessary to get the trojans and viruses that Adaware and spybot won't warn about.
4. Reboot, connect to the Internet, and then go back and check advanced tools in spybot to see if anything got added to the startup, BHO or other lists... changed entries are bolded, so it's easy to tell.
Then, and only then, will you know that the machine is clean. Keeping it clean is another issue, but at least this will get it done.
-R
I uninstalled SP2 on my folks' computer. Software compatibility problems, general annoyance, and as the final straw SP2 was not compatible with the installer program for Microsoft's own Office 2000.
I'm reasonably happy with XP+SP1, but SP2 was a giant step backward.
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
I'm just there for the food.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Sorry but linux is not easy to use as a desktop.
I'm going to set her up with my old eMac with Panther and 1GB Ram on it and load Office for Mac 2004. We can get a .MAC account for her to setup and share photos with relatives and use the Virex anti-virus software to protect the windows owning relatives for macro viruses in office documents she might send/receive.
Oh and all this crap about software not updating. I call bullshit. I've only had that happen to me with the IM manager proteus because I had not kept up to date with it but that was only with the check for updates function. Installing an updated version is as simple as going to the website and downloading the dmg disk image and dragging the app package into the Applications directory.
No problems with printers either, you don't need to have a desktop printer to print from applications.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Be glad you are indoors, where it is nice and warm this time of year, instead of cold, possibly wet/damp - shivering your ass off, scraping knuckles and getting greasy, etc while working on an automobile ("Oh, you know how to fix cars?" - after you tell them about the new brakes you installed on your car - "Well, our car is making this funny noise, and we thought...").
Reason is the Path to God - Anon