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NASA's Deep Impact
NivenMK1 writes "The Seattle Times has an interesting article on NASA's plan to nail the comet Tempel 1 with a chunk of copper the size of a bathtub on July 4 this year. This copper 'bullet' is intended to strike the comet at approximately 23,000 mph and hit with a force equivalent to 4.7 tons of TNT.
Scientists hope to discover what exactly the comet is made of and what changes have occurred to the outer layers with reference to the core."
July 4 this year?! What a coincidence - it's the date the project I'm working on now should be finished to.
...where the bullet misses its target and curves back round to origin.
Don't miss guys - and watch out for Hubble!
AT&ROFLMAO
Would it not be cheaper/better to drop a lump of high explosive on it rather than a heavy lump of copper?
http://blog.nexusuk.org
....But hitting a rock on Independance day sounds like a bad idea, what if it's an Alien's rock?
We can't just keep going around the Solar system bashing things up that's not ours!
Why copper?
Is it because Tempel 1 is known to not contain any copper itself, so it makes the spectral signature easier to read?
Are there any possible issues like destruction of important "environments"(if a comet could be called an evironment) if the comet is blown to pieces by this experiment? I mean, is it possible that important microorganisms or other important/rare/valuable occurences may be destroyed if this comment is blown up? It kind of reminds me of some of the unintended consequences of mans earlier forays into new environments on earth. I just wonder if these kind of scenarios have been considered.
820 pounds, from the first sentence of paragraph 3.
The article doesn't state if this velocity is relative to Cape Cod or relative to the comet. It makes a big difference.
I wonder if there is any danger of some chunks coming to Earth that would be large enough to survive the entry into our atmosphere and cause some damage at the white house? One can always hope.
They'll develop a working missile defense system. All kidding aside how hard is it going to be to position this giant copper bullet in the path of a speeding comet? How acurately can they predict the comets path (whenever I here about near earth passes they are always given in wide ranges as to how near they actually came). So maybe I just naieve but the idea that we could hurl a giant block of metal into a comet traveling 23,000 miles per hour millions of miles away, I feel like a kid again at the wonderment.
That's the only answer...
rewriting history since 2109
Our comets are now under attack. Please join the Society for the Preservation of Comets, before it's too late.
Hopefully together we can make a difference. It's time to stop these bigoted scientists from damaging comets with bathtub size copper slugs, just "to see what will happen."
Without comets, there would be no space snowballs. This must stop.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
...NASA is lying. The comet is actually heading straight for Earth and the best plan they have is to launch a copper bathtub filled with Bruce Willis.
"Nobody's sure what will happen next"
Spending 311 million dollars without knowing what happens next doesnt seem a very nice idea.
Unfortunately, the MPAA sent a cease and desist order to NASA informing them that this would be infringing on the IP of one of their client's copyrighted movies.
Hence, plan B involves throwing a bathtub at the comet instead. Go NASA!
Look at the numbers:
The impact power of the copper rod is 4+ tonnes of TNT. IF you wanted to double the blast, you would have to send more than 4 tonnes of explosives.
at 30km/s+, the kinetic energy of the material is bigger than the chemical energy of explosives.
The added energy just doesnt matter anymore because it would be difficult to time the blast, plus the softness of the explosives would reduce the impact penetration.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
We might have to send a crew of rednecks up to drill into it first.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Is this a test of a planetary defence system? Imagine if the dinosaurs could have had one of those.
GETPKG - Package Management for Slackware
Am I the only one who feels this is the start to a disaster movie?
"The year is 2004, and the scientists of the day decide to crack open a comet with a bullet the size of a bathtub. But then the unthinkable happens. The comet bullet causes the comet to change path and come right towards Earth and there is nothing we can do to stop it. Will all Earth will be destroyed? Will our hero be able to save the world? There is only one way to find out..."
Coming to cinemas everywhere this Summer.
da w00t. mtfnpy?
yes.
Hitting comet vs. Missile defense:
1.Long time to learn precise trajectory of comet vs. few minutes with missile.
2.One comet (and big at that) vs. multiple warheads and fake warheads x10.
3.Comet is in a microgravity enviroment, bullet could stop and wait for comet vs. warheads - where can you "wait" for warhead? - you would need constant thrust to maintain position.
4.You miss the comet NASA looks bad for a few weeks. vs. you miss the missile - some city looks bad forever.
I've loved astronomy on a casual basis since childhood and I think it's important to mankind. I'm not one of those people who thinks we should abandon NASA spending because there are still underprivilidged marmasets living in a swamp somewhere or whatever.
But isn't this kind of, uh... wrong? Possibily destroying a comet? It seems so destructive to possibly break apart something that's been circling our sun for millions of years.
I understand that comets are more like "dirty snowballs" than things of infinite beauty, and I can definitely understand the scientific reasons for this mission because they're going to get all kinds of data that they couldn't get otherwise.
This seems kind of wrong to me, though.
OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
What happens if the comet doesn't like being shot with the world's biggest bullet, and decides to come after us? Has NASA factored this into their plans?
This project has been around since 2001; probably a dup /. article somewhere... Anyway, here is the NASA website, which gives more details on the mission.
http://deepimpact.jpl.nasa.gov/
ph34r teh p0w3r 0f th3 c0w
Comets are usually ice and frozen gases (dry ice, ammonia ...etc.)
:)
Heavy metals are very rare in comets . Also copper over iron , because copper is much more rarer than iron . Aluminium or Iron would be too common , silver/gold would be better than copper - but who can afford that
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
Actually a large sum of that debt is to the people that live in this country.
The geeks at NASA never really grew up: Their jobs are all about neat toys and breaking things.
Amazing that despite all our centuries of civilized sophistication the best way to figure out how things work is still to break them. Kids break clocks. Cooks break locks. NASA breaks giant icy rocks.
Captains additional: Does this mean we can add 'bath tub' to the ISO weights and measures along with VW Beetle, football field and 18 wheel truck?
'Got a nice yacht, perchance?
Excuses, explanations, or what?
1.Long time to learn precise trajectory of comet vs. few minutes with missile.
Outweighed by much shorter distance.
2.One comet (and big at that) vs. multiple warheads and fake warheads x10.
But many failed tests had no decoys or only easily distinguished decoys.
3.Comet is in a microgravity enviroment, bullet could stop and wait for comet vs. warheads - where can you "wait" for warhead? - you would need constant thrust to maintain position.
Huh? The mass bullet should "stop and wait"? Maybe this grasp of physics is why the 'scientists' at 'Defense' can't hit the mark.
4.You miss the comet NASA looks bad for a few weeks. vs. you miss the missile - some city looks bad forever.
And how exactly does this explain the failures?
to err is human, to forgive is divine, to forget is... umm...
Something else is going on. They can pick pieces of comet out of the moon if they wanted it. No point in blowing money on this unless it's for defense. Copper my ass.
Another reason they are doing a kinetic impact is because they want to judge the structure of the comet. Right now, scientists don't really know if the comet's consistency is that of a fluffy snowball or a hard chunk of ice. If you used explosives, you would have melting of the ice, whatever its consistency, and would get less information about the construction of the comet. Once possibility is that the comet might be loosely packed enough that the impactor goes in one side and flies out the other....
Also, I'm surprised the article submitter didn't include a link to the mission website.....
Safe for who, the little green men living on it?
Its a big rock that will be 80 million miles away from earth when they do this, what possible 'unsafe' scenario are you imagining from a big rock hitting a block of copper?
The sun itself(a monstrously huge ongoing nuclear reaction) is only 93 million miles away, and we seem reasonably safe from it.
we still manage to keep our poor people fed (our homeless don't starve, they just live outside!)
Perhaps you should read this article
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=286105
"Unfortunately, the blessing of abundant food is not shared by all Americans," Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack said. "A recent report from our Department of Agriculture documented an increase in hunger in America, particularly among our children."
Does this mean we can add 'bath tub' to the ISO weights and measures along with VW Beetle, football field and 18 wheel truck?
and "Libraries of Congress"...
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
First off it's COPPER, not cooper. Cooper is a guy who makes barrels, copper is a fairly non-reactive element. Surely you see the difference. Other options for cooper are Alice Cooper, Hanging With Mr Cooper, D. B. Cooper, etc.
Next up, lets take the line: if it is known to be "safe" for the comet to interact with cooper in that explosion, then the chemical composition of the comet it is already KNOWN and that makes NO reason for the experiment. How wrong can you be? It's pretty easy to know something will not significantly react with copper and yet not know the exact composition, unfortunately I can't come up with a clever metaphor about throwing a penny at a dirty snowbank, but based on some simple chemistry you'd get the idea.
Next, how about the part: how "safe" it is to force it in an explosion with cooper(sic)...? Well, let's see, there is a gigantic nuclear fusion reaction that provides most of our planet's energy in one form or another, so you can guess space is not going to notice even something the size of a comet going nuclear. It's not like we're setting it off over New York city. It's a long ways away. Additionally, since the current theory (theory like evolution is a theory) is that comets are basically dirty snowballs, the odds of getting something more like an explosion and less like a splash are slim, verging on none.
For the rest of the people talking about, "is it a good idea to destroy a comet?" Well, worst case is that it's fairly whole, and orbit its changed. Could be changed in a way that puts it in a collision course with earth. Basically that would be very bad. But, another thing to keep in mind is the sizes we're talking about here: very dense bathtub vs. 2.5 MILES long. Overall, not too worried. Also, keep in mind that if it's this easy to change the trajectory, then.... well.... it's this easy to change the trajectory.
How acurately can they predict the comets path (whenever I here about near earth passes they are always given in wide ranges as to how near they actually came).
You hear about near-Earth passes, as you call them, because they're always the first time we've noticed said object getting close to the Earth. This comet (and many others, plus asteroids, etc) has a pretty well-known orbit around the Sun. We have plenty of observations and can accurately predict where it's going to be at any given point in time (barring things like orbital changes due to outgassing, disintegration, etc).
There's another object in the sky that we can do this with: the Moon. It's VERY close to Earth, yet we can be pretty safe in saying it ain't about to hit us. Lots of observations == confidence in a body's motion.
The "scary" ones you hear about are new objects we've never seen before, and all of sudden they look like they're coming "close". Once we get enough observations of them, we can calculate their orbits, and you pretty much never hear about them again.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
if the chemical composition of the comet it is unknown, how "safe" it is to force it in an explosion with cooper...?
High school chemistry. Well, that and the fact that they're not detonating this 8 feet above your head.
if it is known to be "safe" for the comet to interact with cooper in that explosion, then the chemical composition of the comet it is already KNOWN and that makes NO reason for the experiment.
See above. Find me something that will combine with copper to have any sort of explosion anywhere close to as bad as the one resulting kinetic energy release.
Hint: there isn't anything.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
I once spoke to someone who works on the Deep Impact project, and he said that, after the Mars Polar Odyssey crashed, their motto became "Deep Impact: We're Supposed to Crash."
I have gas, but my car uses petrol.
I was just trying to show that it was not as rosy, as the parent post indicated.
I am from Northen Europe, and I just have to look out the window, to see a better place that America.
Morgan? No, not quite, but close. They're sending up the sample now...
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
So, the ton of TNT is now a unit of force?
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PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658
Ooooh! Ooooh! I saw this episode of Stargate SG-1. The core of the comet is made up of n'aquita and will cause an explosion the size of the solar system when we kick it off.... don't worry, though, we've got that trusty warp drive to warp it through the planet... uh, where's the warp drive?
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves
I hope the aliens onboard the spaceship inside the comet don't mind.
is to divert the comet's trajectory just enough so that it lands on earth on bin laden's head. but of course they won't say it!
True, but if you send up an 820lb nuclear warhead you will get a much better fire cracker. Megatons baby, that's what I'm talking about, thousands of your piddly little copper lumps have I in a few pounds of Pu and hydrogen.
So you have to wonder when nations will start nuclear fireworks displays. People want bread, wine and circus. Science has to have it's element of circus to be funded. I hate myself for realizing that. Nations like to intimidate, and traditional fireworks displays included cannons and other military devices. Ah to be entertained by brute intimidation. When it happens, you know that the world is drifting back to feudalism.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Leave it to Americans to come up with a plan along the lines of: "Wonder what that's made of... lets blow it up!"
space should be like an international nature park. you dont go just randomly blowing things up willy nilly.
" I am from Northen Europe, and I just have to look out the window, to see a better place that America."
It's not technically known as "window": it is called "television".
Now quit looking at "CSI Miami", I want to see the evening news.
"If a boss demands loyalty, give him integrity. But if he demands integrity, give him loyalty." (John Boyd, 1927-1997)
All they have to do is get the Genesis team to try to gently land the copper bullet onto the comet.
I'm sure they must be doing this, but I hadn't read of anyone speculating. This would be an excellent opportunity to direct the slug in, to change the comet's path slightly, and then measure the resultant path and check on their accuracy.
I'm pretty sure we're going to need that capability sooner or later.
-- Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW 301/249-6501 AIM:OgGreeb Digital Marketing Inc., Bowie, MD
Fragmented comet shards predicted to impact earth after scientific experiement goes awry. During an experiment to shatter the coment "Tempel" with a magic bullet, fissures in the comet created unexpected fragmentation lines. Minutes after impact with the comet scientists noticed something terribly wrong with the breakup. One team of scientists involved with the experiement were quoted as yelling "Bag ass!" as they ran from the NASA complex. Other scientists were quoted as saying "umm... uh oh" and "Oh, shit!" Bill Nye the Science Guy was on hand to give this report of what actually went wrong. Bill -
"The scientists here at NASA were trying to use this great big huge gigantic gun of science to shatter this great-big huge gigantic comet and all of a sudden things went terribly wrong! The big comet didn't break like the scientists expected, and all of a sudden People were running around burning papers (Bill) and nametags and (Bill) forging timecards, and..(Bill)....huh?..oh.."
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Something isn't right with this picture - copper is very dense! From my calculations an 820 pound brick of solid copper is only 12 inches by 12 inches by 18 inches.
When you tell people the government wants to destroy this natural wonder, there is nearly universal acceptance of this proposal!
Then I sell them lots on Mars, desireable lots, backing on nature preserves.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Is is going to land on the comet head or tail?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Nasa should get funding from the NRA (National Rifle Assoc.) and Smith and Wesson. This will be the largest bullet ever made!
..........FULL STOP.
I, for one, welcome our new Comet Temple Overlords.
Education is the silver bullet.
So I take it that you've never, say, broken a rock in half?
The comet is an inanimate object meandering through space - it has no more of an ethical status than any of the ancient, storied rocks used in the creation of your house. The information gleaned from this test, however, is of potentially great consequence to our understanding of the universe.
I might also add that there are PLENTY more comets where that one came from in the Ort Cloud.
$311 million. 4.8 tone of TNT. On July 4th. ONE BIG BANG. Sheesh, that has to be the biggest fireworks ever.
Still it must vastly help mankind to know that an icy comet is made up of ice.
Good point actually, although if this is the case, ANY material sent at the comet would trigger this sort of explosion. TNT explodes due to a high intensity shockwave hitting it. Now imagine a comet filled with TNT. Intelligent design indeed!
:)
Hmm, which causes a greater explosion - hundreds of pounds of copper, or hundreds of tons of feathers?
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Oh, what's the worst that could happen? Try: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/ Just punch in the numbers, it's fun.
...so that's what happens when you don't edit the Subject: when you write a comment. /. uses the subject from your last post. Fascinating.
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
That's 2,592 (or 36 * 72) cubic inches, but the edges may just as well be something like 0.1 m by 0.4 m by 0.9 m. Shouldn't every comet have one of those?
Nanotech civilization living on comet gets pissed, launches nanotech weapon the size of a marble to Earth, where it proceeds to turn the entire planet into grey goo.
Oh, wait, it already was grey goo...
Never mind.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
You live in Washington, D.C., right?
In a wealthy neighborhood full of politicians, right?
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
This won't make the Cometpeople very happy!
NASA has trouble hitting Mars, and it's a planet. They're going to hit a comet? Anyone taking odds on this?
Come on, we're all geeks here, lets be geeky. It doesn't hit with the force of anything. When it impacts, it releases energy equivalent to x tons of explosive detonating.
Since their "copper bullet is intended to strike the comet....with a force equivalent to 4.7 tons of TNT", I think the above sentence should have been:
Scientists hope to discover what exactly the comet was made of...
No yacht, but unless their definition of "the southwestern United States" includes Hawaii (which would make it far more technically correct than most), the top of Mauna Kea might suffice as a place to watch it.
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
A lot of observing and imaging of comets and their dust comas, and analysis of the resulting images, is being carried out by Jana Pittichova, a postdoctoral fellow (and triathlete!) on Karen's research team, primarily using the University's 88-inch telescope atop Mauna Kea.
Being one of the operators on that telescope, I've worked with Jana on several nights - probably one-third to one-half of the Meech team's total observing this semester.
Although I understand how the observations are carried out from a purely operational and practical standpoint, I haven't seen what the actual analysis looks like... and even if I did, the odds are good that I'd need a lot of explaining, since I'm not a Ph.D. myself!
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
The USA has sold the farm - innovation is what it has left and weird patent laws are trying to kill that too. Experiments such as this are an investment in the future, so if you are worried about the future of the USA you should be behind such things as this. And stop your management getting hold of hard drugs, that's the only thing that can explain a lot of decisions.
And this is an example of why "America" is no longer great.
:
.....
If you (as a country) spent less time watching "info-mercials" and more time actually learning real history, you would know that Henry Ford is responsible for the introduction of the production line. He didn't invent the car, there were French, German and British inventions way before his car was built.
As for inventing the aeroplane, that is not entirely true either. The wright brothers were credited with the first powered flight, but they built on the work of others in Europe, and there is even some doubt as to whether they were the first to achieve powered flight.
As to the Chrysler/Mercedes Benz thing, you do realise that most of the inventions that "America" is famous for were invented by European immigrants. Names such as Einstein and Werner von Braun spring to mind here.
Add all this to the fact that "American" companies have been taking over the rest of the worlds industries with the almighty dollar for over 40 years and you might realise what the fuss over globalisation is about.
fucking goldfish memory !
Telephone - Alexander Graham Bell - Born in Scotland
Wireless transmission - Guglielmo Marconi - Born in Italy
Manhattan Project - J. Robert Oppenheimer - Born In New York to German Immigrants
Electronic Computer - Konrad Zuse - Born in Germany
Helicopter - SIKORSKY, Igor Ivanovich - Born in Russia
Motorcycle - Gottlieb Daimler - Born in Germany
Bicycle - James Starley - Born in England
Jet airplane - Hans von Ohain - Born in Germany
British
Disc Brakes - Frederick William Lanchester
Tin Can - Peter Durand
Cat Eyes - Percy Shaw
Portland Cement - Joseph Aspdin
Cordite - Sir James Dewar, Sir Frederick Abel
Electric Motor - Michael Faraday
Locomotive - Richard Trevithick
Periscope - Sir Howard Grubb
Polyester - John Rex Whinfield and James Tennant Dickson
Viagra - Peter Dunn, Albert Wood, Dr Nicholas Terrett
Waterproof Fabric - Charles Macintosh
World Wide Web - Tim Berners-Lee
A chunk of copper the size of a bathtub would weight far more than 820 pounds. I suspect it's a bathtub-sized probe, with an 820 pound chunk of copper on its front end.
its just a giant penny for the most part. Getting it into space will cost a bit (dare i say a pretty penny). If anything goes wrong such as a small knock off course, then that tub is gonna miss. But if it hits, we can possibly see the cult members from that heavens gate mass cult suicide thing back in the 90's. wouldnt you be damned if they were really right and the passing comet did hide a ufo behind it?
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. - Catcher in the Rye
a 5-ton bomb might be enough to blow up a building, but if the comet is solid rock (or ice) I doubt it would make a big dent. OTOH - if, as some suspect, comets and asteroids are really just blobs of gravel the probe might pass through it without even changing the comet's path!
Clear, Dark Skies
I don't agree with alot of what goes on in this country, but bashing America because Americans didn't invent all these things or for whatever reason is kinda silly. All non-Americans jump on the bandwagon and point out all these silly, worthless bits of information. They love to bash our politicians, like every country in the world hasn't had it's share of f-tard leaders. Your comments are so old and played out. As far as countries coming in and owning companies or whatever, that's what America does. That's what it has always done, and that's what it will always do. People act like this is a new thing. The fact of the matter is...despite all these things you bash America for, is is still the big boy on the block. Should it be? I don't know. Perhaps not. But it is. Try to argue that point. Have facts, don't just spout off gibberish. If you can, I salute you and bow to your wisdom. They say that a chain is as strong as it's weakest link, so I guess America's weakest inbread link is still stronger than the rest of the world? I don't believe this but am simply illustrating a point to your comments above. I'm not WOOHOO AMERICA, or bash the rest of the world. I just think it's silly for people from other countries to sit and bash bash bash when their own history is full of f-tardism.