Slashdot Mirror
Feds To Have Unified Biometric Federal ID System
An anonymous submitter writes "There have been rumors flying among the scientific community about a proposed standard for 'Personal Identity Verification' by the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST). According to the standard, all federal employees and contractors would require a 'PIV "card" that is "personalized" with data needed by the PIV system to later grant access to the subscriber to Federal facilities and information systems.' Besides the likely efficacy questions, concerns in the scientific community concern what impact this will have on our foreign collaborations (or even grad students)."
How long untill they go, "We did a trial, it worked well. Lets use it to track terrorists!" and start to try and force it upon the people this way?
I like muppets.
Big Brother is watching you (using standard protocols!).
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
you cant really force this on people. they would not accept it. if they were to use this on people they would ahve to do it without people knowing. it would take alot more than a new 9/11 to get people to accept dogtags
Their fancy pants technology is no match for a $2 pair of warm, fuzzy mittens. Try to read a print off of that polyester.
Click here for a free picture of an iPod!
...than carrying a photo ID...
Do we really want to pay with our hard earned tax dollars for such a system to further alienate us from the international community and the rest of the world? Or would we rather improve our strained international relationships and perhaps our school system which is ranked among the worst in the world?
I suppose it's understandable that the government would want to keep better track of the people working for it, to help prevent spying and other such things. However, I can also see how one could make the argument that it'll be a slippery slope type situation, and that it won't be long until ALL of us have cards with biometric info and the government watching everything we do. It's a hard call.
Personally, I'd rather take the chance that a few spies might infiltrate the government and not risk a 1984 Big Brother scenario.
Here is a demo of PIV in operation http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/OptInstr/piv/pivdemo.h tm
It shows a group of people walking past the PIV system and getting blasted with lasers. I assume it thought they were all bad guys (or gals)....
Encrypt your prints with a key. And only YOU know the key.
:P
If you forget the key, then well fill out a shitload of paper work to get a new BioID or something. But this is much better than making me leave my password at every place I visit.
If people don't like it cause they keep forgetting their 8 digit keys, well too bad
USA is about to turn into a police-state, big brother-style. For a few years I have thought about going to MIT (I'm form Norway), but as of todays survailence-policies I no longer want to. You are becoming paranoid, your government is fooling and scaring you all into submission.
I'm just a little bit curious about how pervasive this information will get. I can understand that if I worked for the FBI, I can expect a serious background check, and I don't know if I'd have an objection to having biometric information taken in addition to work in a security field. But I do research at a VA hospital - I can't imagine what information or materials that I'd have access to that would require that kind of clearance or identification process.
"What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
Why yes, racial discrimination is clearly acceptable.
What planet (or southern state?) are you from? I thought that kind of thing was over with years ago, I guess there're still people like you out there. Sad.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
Requiring clear identification of all federal employees is acceptable at this juncture in time. Banning Islamic foreign students and Chinese students (including those from Taiwan province and Hong Kong) from federally funded projects at American universities is also acceptable.
This is a fantastic idea --- for Canada and Europe. The USA built its strength by taking the best and brightest students from around the world. If you ban them from all federally funded projects, they'll go elsewhere, for our gain and your loss. We're already seeing this as your increased paranoia makes Canada a more attractive place to study.
Keep up the good work! We really appreciate it!
concerns in the scientific community concern what impact this will have on our foreign collaborations
Did I miss something when the US mandated all foreign-born visitors to the US to have coded passports this year? I think I must have, because my passport was issued by the UK embassy in Tokyo, I have to get another passport (at a cost of GBP80 or $100) before I can visit the US.
So I have two observations: Since when did the US ever give a rats arse about non-US citizens, and I think the hundreds of thousands of GB citizens decided that day that they won't be holidaying in Florida this year. Or next year for that matter.
"It's not your information. It's information about you" - John Ford, Vice President, Equifax
The proposal of the grandparent post is to treat different nationalities differently. So, an American citizen of Egyptian ancestry would be allowed to work on government funded projects, but an Egyptian citizen would be banned.
Too bad, you are racist. You are likely a bigot, as well.
Not for national ID's, in any way, in any form. It'll be just for federal workers-for right now.
When the Social Security Act was put into place, those who were concerned that the Social Security number would become some type of nationalized tracking system were ridiculed and called paranoid. They even wrote it into the Social Security Act that the number couldn't be used for any tracking purpose other than to determine who gets SS benefits.
Nothing to worry about here, it's easy to see just how well THAT worked. I mean, there were even people who said that you wouldn't even be able to get a job or a driver's license without a social security #. What a bunch of paranoid freaks! That certainly never did happen.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
As it currently stands, the concept of an ID "card" isn't too radically different from a photo ID--the human face is a fundamentally unique and wholly recognizable factor, and this would just be incorporating more data to form a more accurate and complete picture (don't get me wrong, I feel that this step is unnecessary and can lead to tremendous potential for abuse. It's the first step down a slippery slope towards ever less privacy). But what's especially worrying is the potential for wireless biometric ID systems. You have on the one hand Big Brother constantly able to keep tabs on you, anywhere (whereas with a card you can just refuse to patronize places requiring it's use and, again, it's not a huge departure from a driver's license), which will inevitably lead to tighter and tighter control just because the government can, though naturally hyped-up concerns like terrorism or sedition will be used as justification. Or perhaps even worse for joe average would be the potential for targeted advertising. Remember in "minority report" where Tom Cruise walks into a store only to have personalozed advertisements fly at him based on his biometric ID and past buying records? This currenttrial might actually as it stands have some legitimate applications (I certinaly, for instance, want access to nuclear facilities to be as secure as possible), but it's our responsibility not to let it become ubiquitous and especially not wireless, in which case privacy as we know it could essentially ceased to exist.
Wrong.
The only effect that reducing foreign students has is to cause the salary of research assistants and the price of full fellowships to increase. Currently, salaries are too low, so too few American students enter engineering and science graduate school.
By deporting all the foreign students, you will suddenly have a huge demand for vacant slots. In order to fill those slots, the university and private industry will cough up more money.
The situation works on the basis of straightforward economic theory. The end result is a win win situation for everyone. More Americans enter graduate school. We continue to churn out great technology. Best of all, the foreign students remain in their homelands, which they claim (actually, "bitch") is superior to the USA.
You don't have to 'force' it on people. Make it a job requirement.. Much like background checks are..
Most people like to be able to feed their families... Even if they morally disagree, realities of life often intervene..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Unless the Fed allows a user-definable and user-personalizable identification number to go along with the PIV, it ain't going to fly.
Remember the one most important thing.... Biometric is NOT revokeable. Once stolen, forever stolen.
There are some (even though not very many) sites that you can't use without MS Passport (hotmail). It'd suck if someday you couldn't enter a supermarket without a BioID.
Welcome to 1984... i mean 2004.
Electrons are free; it is moving them that becomes expensive.
Really, the issue is privacy versus security. Zero privacy means 100% security, but most people support increasing privacy at the expense of security.
Boring people don't care about privacy.
So you are going to ban innocent humans based on where they were born? Oh well, at least you'll be "secure" huh? Who cares how many innocent humans are screwed.
When God asks you why you screwed so many humans in some national interest what will you say? Is THAT in the national interest?
In USA...
Soviet Russia turns into you.
We're just going to have to accept the fact that the Large Set Of Disparate, Often Unrelated Bush Administration Sponsored Policies Which Are For Whatever Reason Addressed With The Label "War On Terrorism" is going to end the U.S.'s former status as intellectual capital of the world. The brain drain that the world outside the U.S. has suffered as a result of their best and brightest going to the U.S. for grad school and trying to stay there is going to stop as those best and brightest are made increasingly unwelcome, and we're going to start seeing Poland and India rivaling silicon valley within 20 years. This trend (the trend within government, the reverse brain drain hasn't noticeably started yet) has been getting steadily worse since September 11, 2001, it's going to continue getting steadily worse with or without the biometrics thing, and it's kind of too late to do anything about this; The Bush administration will some day end, but the Republicans and Democrats will stay, and they've both been equally behind these policies 100%.
What I'd worry about at the moment is the Americans, because, well, since they'll be actually still be in the country in 10 years they have to live with the consequences of policies like this, as well as policies still yet to come. Weekly polygraph tests if you want to work in Fedland, anyone?
Next thing you know, everyone will have a 3D barcode tattooed into their forehead. It will be a disaster. Everywhere you go, cameras will send notification to government computers, which will be in a data center that makes all of the computers currently operating in the world look like the chip in a handheld calculator. And there will be software that will monitor all the actions of every person in the world, and if certain suspicious activities--such as breathing, eating, sleeping, or using the toilet--take place, police will be deployed to arrest the person(s) involved.
Reading the briefing I thought they might understand security, as the writeup mentions using a PIN along with the card, however it then concludes:
"Inclusion of biometric data: Biometric mechanism equivalent to a PIN from a security architecture point of view.
User can't give away, lose, or forget his/her biometric"
true, I would not give away a finger, but it is a lot easier to cut one off a high level exec than get the PIN out of them. On the bright side, the writeup acknowledged that the "features" of biometric is open to debate" and that
"Some experts feel a card + PIN provides the same assurance level as a card + biometric"
to be implanted either on our forehead or the right hand?
i'm sure we all thank you for it.
"privacy verses security" ... it's not quite that simple...
... how does that make one more secure? Say the person is a murderer - does that mean they will murder someone on the plane ... perhaps the quiet lone guy back in 14C is who one should worry about, but because they don't have a criminal record, one is left with a false sense of security - sound familiar ... yep, some of the 911 hijackers had "clean" criminal records.
... there are always tradeoffs ... giving up all privacy for *perceived* security isn't the answer.
Say for a moment, anyone can quickly determine the identity of anyone else in their sight
More to the point, if anyone can exactly determine who anyone else is, including their occupation, etc, then that would present a big problem to folks in the witness protection program (already increasingly having problems being "outed"), undercover security, etc.
Some privacy/obscurity is a good thing (you must tend to agree being that you posted as an AC)
Ron Bennett
Having IDs that are hard to counterfeit and hard to be used by other unauthorized persons is the idea of having IDs. So, all bullet points about the goals of this PIV in the official project narrative (MS-Word doc) are actually wanted.
However, the danger to exploit such PIVs as big brother equipement is given. Especially scaring is that the PIV shall hold fingerprints; this is scaring because those fingerprints will be registered centrally in a database. The effects are that even if your fingerprints show up somewhere remotely to a crime (e.g. same place but completely different time -- and they stick), you are will become a suspect or, at least, a potential witness. And possibly you will then be on the observation list without knowing it even remotely. And all this has nothing to do with a federal agency, in which you might work (or have worked several years ago, for that matter).
Fingerprints are only one example. So, the problem is the data -- and where else (than on the PIV) it gets stored, and how it can be accessed.
Who do you want to be today?
Also, this system is not perfect. Nonetheless, using this system results in better safety than not using this system.
Actually you don't ... know much about history.
...) were taken from their homelands and kept in internment camps for years. Reparations have been paid; lessons have been learned (don't believe me? well, you don't see Muslims being interned now; in fact Middle Eastern folks aren't even allowed to be profiled in airport baggage check lines).
Why is there this almost pervasive belief that changes made (during extreme times) cannot be unmade? That is that a worsening condition must asymptotically get worse?
History does not bear this out.
During the American Revolution, citizens had to quarter troops in their homes. This doesn't strike you as quite a bit more invasive than a trumped-up ID card?
During the Civil War, Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus. He sicced the militia on dissenters. He instituted a blockade. He expended funds for the purchase of weapons. And he did all these things without congressional approval. The precious Union still stands!
During WWII, some US citizens (most notably Japanese, also Italians,
And for those cynical few who will scoff at the notion that we here in the US are experiencing extreme times, I ask you to name me another time the US mainland was attacked to such effect by a foreign entity?
We are in extreme times; this is a fact. What precisely those times warrant is up for discussion.
I can understand foreigners lacking an appreciation about the meaning freedom has to us US citizens and how deeply ingrained it is in our beings. But for Americans do get all squeamish that our entire national fabric will be oblitherated if we take any privacy invading measures during these extreme times does not speak well for those individuals' characters (perhaps they thrive on chaos? or are just Chicken Littles).
We aren't talking about a national ID card, people. It's like having a badge for work, except it works in multiple physical locations.
It's absolutely ridiculous that access is controlled at each facility by a completely separate system. Contractors that have to go between contracts, or have a client spread across multiple buildings, currently have to carry a valid ID for each building they access. It's a major pain.
People always complain about government inefficiencies. This is a good way to limit one aspect of that problem.
akad0nric0
This sentence no verb.
Paranoia is irrationally linking two or more unconnected events.
i mmigrant_checks/
bio id + car tracking + national id + eye scan passports + SSid
they may be seperate but do you not think this info wont be kept or accessed as if from one place? (total information awareness, matrix)
just look at the new bio-id laws being passed in the uk... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/03/business_
as technology advances, it's really quite logical for the government, and corporations, and individuals - in short, society - to follow the advances. the government has natiaon paper records for veryone; why not biometric records? the problems come in if and when the goverment is given the power to abuse the information it holds. the information itself is nothing more than an extention of what it already has, imho.
In Canada and many other countries, they're calling this the reverse brain drain.
Like when it comes to the national ID debate, people forget that many free nations have national IDs. That's not to say we need them in the US, but this screaming that a national ID is the precursor to a police state is silly. Western Europe is a clear counterexample to that.
The reason I tend to be opposed to this sort of thing is it is generally spending money on things that do nothing to help. It's kinda like gun registration which costs a lot and is essentially useless, a feel good move that in teh end just wastes money without changing anything.
However all this screaming over biometrics/national IDs being the end of freedom is just stupid. Better and more standardised forms of ID do have legitimate uses, and are in use in many free nations across the globe. The real question should be what do we get from this and, if it's not sufficient to justify the costs, then it should be stopped for that reason.
Shoot, the Large Set Of Disparate, Often Unrelated Bush Administration Sponsored Policies Which Are For Whatever Reason Addressed With The Label "War On Terrorism" sounds even more terrifying in acronym-form than when it's spelled out!
Sorry ladies, but this is just so insane. We are getting to the security for the sake of security.
But imagine this: For the ladies, how about biometrics based on breast form, consistency, areola size and form, cripness, perkiness and weight.
Hmm - Pamela Lee comes to mind. And somehow - Homer Simpson.
I can just see the two lines at the DMV. One for the ladies getting their drivers licence. And one for the guys observing the ladies getting their drivers licence. Strictly to verify the biometrics of course..........
Sorry - I am posting this one anonymously - my biometrics are mine.
If we want a Scandanavian-style welfare state, this sort of ID would seem necessary, considering our proximity to the large numbers of poor latin americans.
Not that the current political trend is taking us in that direction....
But, I am nothing, if not an optimist!
eat shiat and bark at the moon
"Besides the likely efficacy questions, concerns in the scientific community concern what impact this will have on our foreign collaborations (or even grad students)."
:P
Well, it is simple: They will carry a card with them.
Don't even start whining about the "rights" of those who "choose" to enter another country. You know what is going to happen in advance and have a choice, so to those who complain, I say: STFU and start your own America if you think you can do better.
Yes, but force how? I imagine that there might be either a way to dodge the system, spoof it, or provide it with false data. Any system that promises to be so universal is going to be huge, and thus less manageable, so it will be easier to dodge.
Philosophy.
Now, just to do an ordinary civilian job, you'll be tracked so heavily 5 guys in CIA headquarters are thinking about your breathing.
Oh please.
In order for your fantasy to be realized, we need to have this many CIA employees (who are not, BTW, legally allowed to spy on US citizens):
((# of gov't employees) + (# of civilian employees working on gov't contract)) * 5
Does this seem likely to you? GMAB. Before this could be realized there'd have to be a bill allocating funds to pay all those spooks and that would never pass Congress because... Congressional reps are elected by their constituents who would have to approve this (or else the reps would lose their jobs... and show me a gov't teat sucker eager to lose his job and I'll show you a solution for x^3 + y^3 = z^3 where x != y != z != 0).
You people are fanatics. And your ranting is actually counter productive because it's so hyperbolic and seems to reject *any* form of IDing apparently without offering solutions to our quite impressive problems.
And while I was initially very against a national ID system, given the tremendous loopholes our current ID system appears to have, I am becoming more open to the possibility (but only if it were coupled with more vigorous attempts to boot those who are here illegally from this country (many of the 19 hijackers were NOT here legally) as well as more concentrated attempts to control our borders).
accept biometric scan at work or to enter secure computing facilities?
To get at my servers after hours, it's a PIN and a palm scan. I'm happy everyone else entering the facility is required to do the same. It keeps my gear from disappearing.
What is so different about applying the same concept to sentitive government facilities?
Now I'm the grandest Tiger in the Jungle!
FWIW the evil govt has managed to lose my fingerprints 3 times!!
maybe if this gets out of hand the difficulty of foreigners getting these ID's will accidentally reverse the trend of IT jobs getting outsourced to India?
Nah, what am I thinking, the government always covers their collective asses to make sure there are no unintended positive side effects to anything they do, couldn't have that.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
The military has moved to using Common Access Cards as our IDs, and in a lot of places are required to use it for network access, medical facilities, etc and can act as a PKI smartcard. It was only a matter of time before Biometrics were rolled into it.
"On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
Your Rights ONLINE, not OFFLINE.
Cheers,
Rest of the World
I think historians will look upon the turn of the millennium as the decline and ultimate self destruction of the American Empire.
Face it, we're fucked.
Don't forget the side benefits.
There's less competition for fellowships and grant money for mediocre grad students like me. And we won't have as many foreigners seducing our women with their sexy accents and considerate love-making.
It's win-win.
Now, let me repeat that . Let me get this straight. You really want to ID university students in a university environment. Hmm. Some chance that'll work. Point 1): they will break it in 5 minutes. This is the nature of universities - we ask the students to be imaginative and creative and they do this on steroids...
Point 2): Universities are inherently slightly subversive and anarchistic. We value them precisely for this (it's how good new ideas get spawned). You want to check badges? Get a life.
No. If you really want to waste your money in a rational way you should listen to how a lot of students play red vs. blue in their spare time.
We did it even in Bristol UK c.a. 1980 (and I predicted something like the japanese nerve gas thing on the basis of the limited info we had 15 years early). (To be honest I was scared that the IRA would do it, and thankfully they didn't).
So, all of you spooks out there wake up and listen. Universities are your best friends, not your worst enemies... So, teacher (always wanted to say this) leave those kids alone...
their bullshit treatment of women. Egads.
The USA has already suffered a significant drop in the number of foreign grad students enrolling. The number one reason given for this drop is intrusive and over-bearing background checks, a long waiting period and capricious immigration officials.
i d= 276464&page=1
Don't care about foreigners? You should, as many institutions are now struggling to maintain student numbers. This has implications for funding, which in turn has implications for future research, which in turn has implications for the USA's future prosperity. The November issue of IEEE Spectrum has a short article on this.
Think the foreign grad students can be replaced by domestic students? Nope, the US education system is falling further behind in science education. See this article:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/DyeHard/story?
The Bush regime is rapidly pushing the USA towards facism, and the American people are too wrapped up in their own jingoism to see or care about it.
We are paranoid becuase the United States appears to be turning into that kind of group.
and our paranoia makes us hold on to the people who appear to be comforting us-- that might actually be raping us.
If we defy the lying cheating bastards, we will support their argument that they are under attack. and allow them to draw more people to them.
I wonder if it would all get better if we just submitted to the jerks who are defacing our country. Sometimes I think it would be... (note, islam means submission!!!)
When submitting to the Bush Clown Posse, I must refuse to lie and cheat and steal, even though everyone else is doing it.
My duty is to keep serving to the best of my ability, and refuse to take part in the autracaties that the government partakes in. Almost everyone values an honest, hard working, considerate, generous person, who doesn't lend vimself to addiction.
I also feel ethically obliged to warn the people of upcomming doom.
We need production facilities to stay in our country.
We need our farms, distributed arround our country.
We need our families.
We need to care. I'm sick of people who don't care what they do to other people.
Love is going to work to make money to feed people, and to learn from others. It is not to be confused with selfish desires... lust.
We need to keep the 10 commandments, as they help us work together as a bigger family. They are not magic, They help people work together. We will be blessed if we work together.
About the biometric database, if we were all allowed to read from it freely... I don't see much problem with it. I do not believe in the right to privacy, however I do believe that it is a wonderfull tool to supress tryants.
Please use [ informative / summarizing ] SUBJECT LINES
Flame me here
Apart from the obvious trolling...
You're attempting to use Geocities site to back up your argument with factual evidence!
Go home boyo.
Only if it takes a reasonable amount of time to get a card (less than 4 months). My group sends undergraduate and graduate students to the US for experience and collaboration. An undergraduate assistant or master's student is only around for 4 months to 2 years so if the process takes too long or is too difficult, then we will have to collaborate elsewhere.
Long live Schrodinger's cat...
Let me get this straight... giving a school janitor the same kind of ID card as a nuclear safety inspector is a good idea? When everyone is using the same kind of ID, all it takes is one bright 'IT-Terrorist' to open every lock. The idea is just stupid.
For your information, I never in my life experienced such raw and open racial hatred as when I contracted in the New York area. Not in the South, Midwest, or West.
An undergraduate assistant or master's student is only around for 4 months to 2 years so if the process takes too long or is too difficult, then we will have to collaborate elsewhere.
Shall I remind you that America has much bigger problems to contend with than making sure students from other countries have an easy time entering and leaving the country?
Regardless, for every one of you who will go elsewhere there are probably ten others who will go through the hoops. Personally, I would rather have those who were willing to do what it takes to get in here than the ones who didn't feel it was worth the effort.
I work (well, I will when I get back out of school) on generators for the Caterpillar dealer in Maryland, and our territory includes all of the DC area. we get quite a good number of government jobs (I think I pulled jobs on 3 military bases and the new USPTO building this summer, and one of the other guys had a job in the pentagon). Which probably means I'll need one of these.
I'm not looking forward to it.
Karma: Negative (Mostly affected by dorm trolling)
SS# makes identity theft so much easier. This would be the down side of of a single,simple number correlating to a single person.
Mind you,may countries have ID systems and you DO need to identify yourself at times for legal reasons. The trick is trying to build a system that is highly resistant to abuse from outside the system and from within.
The tin hat people help balance out the people that just trust their government cause they LOVE AMERICA! And really,erring on the side of caution is sounds like a better plan then just accepting whatever comes your way.
What do you say to the man that has nothing? Cast it away!!
Fallujah Residents Face Choice: Retina Scan and Take ID Card...Or Die
_ or _die.htm
http://infowars.com/articles/ps/falluja_idcards
A caller to the Alex Jones show played a segment from Tom Brokaw's last broadcast on NBC which featured a report from Iraq clearly stating that residents of Fallujah (civilians, NOT insurgents) would be forced to give fingerprints, retina scan and take an ID card or be killed.
Here is the transcript from the report
Reporter: "So far the plan is for most of the city's 250,000 residents to return in stages and first only a few thousand will be let in.
They'll be fingerprinted, given a retina scan and then an ID card, which will only allow them to travel around their homes or to nearby aid centers which are now being built.
The Marines will be authorized to use deadly force against those breaking the rules
Tom?"
Brokaw: "Richard, what's the latest on the election?"
Alex has been documenting for years in his acclaimed Police State videos the fact that this same system is being introduced in the US.
The so-called 'liberation' of Iraq is a test run for when the soldiers over there now become police in the US. From sound wave weapons to detention camps and torture, everything being inflicted on the Iraqis is being introduced in America.
Alex Jones comments....
In 1999 I traveled to Oakland California to cover the Marine Corps execution of Operation Urban Warrior. Thousands of Marines opnely trained to biometrically scan American citizens, seperate the men, women and children in a concentration camp environment, and conduct interrogations. Video in my film, Police State 2000 shows Marine Corps officers questioning role-players who were posing as American resistance fighters. Loudspeakers informed the population of the mock camp filled with hundreds of role-players, that if they tried to escape or resist they would be killed.
Now the public consciousness is so seared that an NBC reporter can just nonchalantly talk about an instant death penalty for anyone that doesn't have their biometric card in order or that strays off pre-determined paths on their way to authorized destinations. The Nazis did the same thing in the Polish ghettos. This is total seige, it is the highest expression of pure martial law. ID cards are now being issued across Iraq, the entire country and its 23 million inhabitants are simply being straight-jacketed so the Globalists can continue the oldest form of total war - seige - upon them.
From thousands of credible reports, from reporters on the ground, we know that Iraq is now descending into a black hole. And I want all of the soft, decadent, bloated, demon-possessed, Neo-Con followers to enjoy themselves. Sit in your easy chairs, cheer the slaughter of over a hundred thousand innocent people. Feel like you're part of this global iron fist. Look at it from your coddled position and know - you don't have to fear the CIA controlled Al-CIAda, you had better fear your Globalist masters because they don't give a damn about you. I've got the government documents, I've got the video. The government's been training to do this to you for a long time. So cheer like it's a football game. Cheer the death of all those innocent children. And know that through your weakness and your lack of historical understanding, you have allowed America to lose its soul. Now prepare to reap what you sow. And as your Globalist owners are raping the hell out of you financially, spiritually, mentally, I know you're so weak-minded you'll thank them for it and blame some imaginary turban-headed bogeyman.
Ummm... where? There are no "new" contenents anymore, and killing off entire civilazations who currently live on said "new" contenents is politically incorrect in the current political climate.
(not that killing off entire civilazations used to be a good idea)
So I am a troll for bringing up the fact that people entering a nation have no right to dictate the measures that nation uses to identify and track them? How about the fact that foreign students DO NOT dictate policy in other nations?? This is retarded.
This shit moderation has reduced slashdot to nothing but one-liners and carefully worded flames. I mean, really, how can you discuss anything in realistic fashion when it only takes one or two people who disagree to moderate the post into extinction?
Robert Hansen Aldridge Ames John Walker Would it have stopped the scapegoating of Wen Ho Lee?
WINK
Here is how I handle the problem. I have stopped using my SlashDot Username. I now always submit articles anonymously.
The Chinese/Indians can play their moderation games, and I simply post again what they modded down. The strategy works wonders. Modding down an anonymous article is a waste of moderation.
If you, like me, believe that the message is more important than the messenger, then just write everything anonymously. I have done a good job in condemning H-1Bs, promoting nationality profiling, and condemning 3rd world cultures like Chinese culture. There is nothing that the moderators can do.
I read a rather enlightening account of one person's effort in the U.K. to educate people on the dangers of the National ID Card (the Blunko-card as some call it). Here's what has me totally puzzled:
1. The majority of citizens in the UK actually favor the national ID card (about 75% if I'm not mistaken). Oddly, they have reached a fist-pounding critical mass that won't listen to reason. Their minds are made up.
2. The government is selling the idea as a means to "make the acuisition of government-related services easier." Woohoo...what an astonishingly significant benefit there. Not.
Here's where it gets weird...
3. The citizens think that the National ID card will somehow solve all problems related to illegal immigration, and yet this has never been mentioned by the government as one of its objectives.
So what does that leave you? A delusional public that refuses to be educated, that isists on jumping headlong into the headlights of an oncoming freight train, and you are powerless to stop it from happening.
Sadly, I have no reason to believe that Americans are any different.
The problem is the killers wouldn't be able to actually do anything if it wasn't for the huge supplies of gullible meat created by who go out and fight their battles for them, and the tacit support of the general populations of much of the middle east. These people generally think something is actually being fought for. The locals from Al-Zarqawi's hometown who talk of Al-Zarqawi as "local boy made good" don't want the worldwide medieval state Al-Zarqawi wants. But they've been fooled into thinking that in some way Al-Zarqawi fights for them.
As long as a significant portion of the middle east has been fooled into thinking that the killers are fighting, at least in some small way, for them, it will not be possible for the killers to be defeated.
The problem comes in in that when the murderous, fascist islamic jihadists come around trying to get meat, or trying to get locals to look the other way while terrorist cells are hiding out in some area, they don't say "we are trying to set up a brutal feudal theocracy based on fear which we rule with an iron fist, enforcing our mysogenic, xenophobic, and highly arbitrary will on all, will you help us?". They come and say "the American imperialists are responsible for all your problems, and they are coming to enslave and oppress our subcontinent". And the problem is that while this is largely bullshit-- the people's problems have more to do with the corrupt kleptocrats who hold political power throughout the middle east-- when it can be demonstrated that America did cause a lot of the problems that currently plague the middle east, and America's army is frequently doing things like invading countries without provocation, then it gets really easy for a hungry, disenfranchised person to believe soothing little lies like the ones the killers peddle.
And your point is?
If you didn't vote Libertarian in the last election, you asked for this!
As a contractor for the air force, I already
have an ID to use with computer systems that
has my private key and my fingerprint on it.
Not to mention my picture.
Or at least not applicable to the US. Actually, the majority of people on welfare are white, not hispanic.
-- No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats, approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
Don't take the program at face value. If you do, it won't make sense. Is there really any information that requires this kind of ID? Does anyone think the ID will really be effective in stopping data leaks? This measure is about control of people, not information. Neither you nor the thousands of low level clerks, bus drivers and others like that really need this kind of clearance. The reason you and all of those people will get these cards before the rest of us is because Uncle Sam has more power over you.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I am constantly amazed at the low levels of reading comprehension/general knowledge evidenced on internet forums. The readers of these forums are without doubt more knowledgeable than the general public.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
It is quite clear that with the increase in technology, certain institutions feel they need to accurately keep track of and identify people.
Identity theft is a problem. So how do you address it? By making sure no one has an identity? In that case, the money in your bank really isn't much safer than it would be if it was linked to your national identity (after all, how could you prove to your bank that you are who you claim to be?).
Internet passwords serve their purpose (when used properly) because they can be arbitrarily changed. Once someone steals your password, the damage the theif can do is limited...you can change it and be done with it.
However, you can't so easily change your social security number. Once it gets stolen, it remains stolen, and your identity thief can just keep on stealing from you (I have seen this happen to friends, and neither the police nor the FBI will even talk to them about it).
So why not let someone just get a new social security number and be done with it? The big three credit agencies won't allow it. Neither, for that matter, will specific government agencies. They want to keep track of you too, after all, and don't want to suffer the economic damages of people who can escape their past by changing their numbers.
The more I think about it, the more I think there just really isn't a good solution to this problem. Even if you took some sort of middle road where you had to inform certian specific agencies of a number change...well...the identity thief could be an employee of those agencies...
If we can't trust each other (which we can't) then there really isn't much at all that we can do.
Ok, I am done now.
I agree that the new policies wrt background checks are reducing the number of foreign students comming to the US in general, but there are also other contributing factors including the improvements in many foreign universities. I've observed that many people who don't like these policies can't simply disagree with them and promote a useful altenative (what alternative would you propose that would improve security that would have fewer negative side effects), they have to throw around epithets like facism and jingosim. How arrogant. Pot, Kettle, Black.
----- Question authority, but not ours. Hate the man, but we're not him.
Has anyone here actually tried to walk into the PTO's new campus. These things are in full effect. You cannot walk into or out of any place worth going to on the new campus without having you little blue, red or yellow card with the chip in it. All entrances and exits are under survaillance to make sure you don't "accidentally" jump the gates. If you don't have the card... or forget it... you need to be vouched for and thoroughly inspected, and I mean they take all your gear apart. They know the second you're in the building. They have a list and they check it twice...
please spam this address:
nate@bu.edu
thanks.
Hmm. Just a quick question, what would happen if the Chinese did obtain information about top US military technology? Is the hypothesis that they will suddenly build weapons and attack us? Or do we just want to stay one up from the rest of the world?
~ Crummy
Do we really need to go this far, or is this more empire building by security types who want to be more important? The Manhatten project was pretty secure without the benefit of biometric ID - but security was handled by people who were serious about it and not the sort of cretins that strip search grannies to meet a quota.
So I don't think the new anticipated cards will eliminate the threat. I'm just more concerned about the ways it will be abused!
"Evil thrives when good men do nothing"
In US? Probably 5 or so thanks to the Anthrax thingy (and a lot of people didn't even want their mailman on their property, not to mention their mail!)
And how many died from car accident?
Probably about 150,000. Historical sources are here and here. Oh, and there were about 10,000,000 people injured in crashes since 9/11...
Fallujah- Residents Face Choice: Retina Scan and Take ID Card....Or Die
Alex Jones Show | December 2, 2004
A caller to the Alex Jones show played a segment from Tom Brokaw's last broadcast on NBC which featured a report from Iraq clearly stating that residents of Fallujah (civilians, NOT insurgents) would be forced to give fingerprints, retina scan and take an ID card or be killed.
Here is the transcript from the report....
Reporter: "So far the plan is for most of the city's 250,000 residents to return in stages and first only a few thousand will be let in.
They'll be fingerprinted, given a retina scan and then an ID card, which will only allow them to travel around their homes or to nearby aid centers which are now being built.
The Marines will be authorized to use deadly force against those breaking the rules....Tom?"
Brokaw: "Richard, what's the latest on the election?.... "
Alex has been documenting for years in his acclaimed Police State videos the fact that this same system is being introduced in the US.
The so-called 'liberation' of Iraq is a test run for when the soldiers over there now become police in the US. From sound wave weapons to detention camps and torture, everything being inflicted on the Iraqis is being introduced in America.
Alex Jones comments....
In 1999 I traveled to Oakland California to cover the Marine Corps execution of Operation Urban Warrior. Thousands of Marines opnely trained to biometrically scan American citizens, seperate the men, women and children in a concentration camp environment, and conduct interrogations. Video in my film, Police State 2000 shows Marine Corps officers questioning role-players who were posing as American resistance fighters. Loudspeakers informed the population of the mock camp filled with hundreds of role-players, that if they tried to escape or resist they would be killed.
Now the public consciousness is so seared that an NBC reporter can just nonchalantly talk about an instant death penalty for anyone that doesn't have their biometric card in order or that strays off pre-determined paths on their way to authorized destinations. The Nazis did the same thing in the Polish ghettos. This is total seige, it is the highest expression of pure martial law. ID cards are now being issued across Iraq, the entire country and its 23 million inhabitants are simply being straight-jacketed so the Globalists can continue the oldest form of total war - seige - upon them.
From thousands of credible reports, from reporters on the ground, we know that Iraq is now descending into a black hole. And I want all of the soft, decadent, bloated, demon-possessed, Neo-Con followers to enjoy themselves. Sit in your easy chairs, cheer the slaughter of over a hundred thousand innocent people. Feel like you're part of this global iron fist. Look at it from your coddled position and know - you don't have to fear the CIA controlled Al-CIAda, you had better fear your Globalist masters because they don't give a damn about you. I've got the government documents, I've got the video. The government's been training to do this to you for a long time. So cheer like it's a football game. Cheer the death of all those innocent children. And know that through your weakness and your lack of historical understanding, you have allowed America to lose its soul. Now prepare to reap what you sow. And as your Globalist owners are raping the hell out of you financially, spiritually, mentally, I know you're so weak-minded you'll thank them for it and blame some imaginary turban-headed bogeyman.
The difference between this "war" and the wars you mention is that this "war" will never be won. The Bush administration has identified this as a war against terrorism, which will never be complete. Terrorism has existed since the dawn of civilization, and will always exist.
When you use as justification a war that will never end, then, yes, effectively, you are implying that changes are not temporary.
Nuttin here mate, just a silly old tax number to track you through taxation, heath and social security. We have access cards to buildings like all modern cities but we are not silly enough to let the Govt. know about it. Johnny is to busy kissing George's arse to worry about an ID of his own, let alone forcing...oh, um, yeah I see your point!
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
In the "1984 Big Brother scenario", I was rooting for Winston "the spy". Secrets are protected by the Military since they have the best hiding spots and an army to stop you looking for them. Civilian life is none of thier bussiness and that is why you leave it when you join. The cleaner in a top secret base needs to be identified. A programmer who contributes to the O/S used in the same base does not. The intellectuals are the first to go, except next time there won't be a safe haven anywhere on the planet. Speaking of the planet, I am glad that the rest of it is sticking up for Koffi against the largest bully in the UN playground.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Actually, it's probably the NSA who'd be doing most of the spying on us. It's their primary job. Plus, they have a larger budget than the FBI and CIA combined, IIRC.
I don't see anything effective being done in the next decade - the current administration will just react and try to use overwhelming force, and anything that succeeds that is going to follow similar policies.
The most disturbing thing I see is the policy that terrorists deserve no justice. At the least that validates their cause - a very bad thing to do, and at worst you get a wide variety of things redefined as terrorism. The French probably lost Algeria as a result of such a policy. Their policy of picking up suspected terrorists, interrogating them, and then executing them at the end of interogation is thought to have got rid of nearly every terrorist in Algeria at one point - but plenty of people that would not have otherwise fought back revolted. Britan probably lost India due to misapplication of the anti-terror laws in the 1920s to apply to virtually anyone that pissed off the government. To sum up - heavy handed approaches kill a lot of people, piss everyone off, and are entirely counterproductive. In the USA, MacCarthy was only stopped in his heavy handed shotgun approach after he starting going after General Marshall, who had been busy running the war for the USA while MacCarthy was busy being an insignificant idiot instead of the significant idiot he later became.
Why not fix the national ID system you already have if it doesn't work? What is the social security number for if it isn't an ID number. High tech snake oil just gives you lie detectors in courts but doesn't help justice or law enforcement. You are not looking for a technological solution here but an organisational one - the administration just has to have it pointed out to it that after four years people expect it to be able to do it's job, instead of keeping up appearances and creating distractions.
"Besides the likely efficacy questions, concerns in the scientific community concern what impact this will have on our foreign collaborations (or even grad students)."
:D
My two cents: This PIV system is going worldwide. People will have to deal with it whether they are ready or not.
The graphic http://m2.doubleclick.net/908910/cbd_336x280.gif with the main topic, brought to mind some things I heard, about a False Prophet, a Beast, and the Antichrist. I know sounds like the start to some bad joke but it's true, it did remind me.
In the Apocalypse prophecy "everyone" is required to recieve a marked number on their right hand or forehead. Some don't, though. The most immeadiate consequence to them is death like those in Fallujah, or maybe they can't buy or sell...
Those are just a couple of the consequences for citizens to not conforming to the system. I admit a worst case senario. However If there is a 50-50 chance that something can go wrong, then 9 times out of ten it will. Already we see the problems: What benefit is there for a criminal/terrorist who wants to off himself/someone and get away with whatever? like you I think none.
Like another previous poster pointed out there is a critical mass in England of "non-thinkers" who don't percieve or know how the a national PIV system is going to really work against them, and so rush headlong to disaster.
Honestly though, blaming us Americans for something that we have no control over, our "Globalist Masters" lead us too, is not right. Individually or even in small "thinker" numbers there is nothing effective we could do to fight a system on national levels when it comes around for us either. But die I suppose.
I don't want to be PIVed it violates my privacy.
I don't think that pat-downs are particularly objectionable if applied without discrimination (i.e., pat down everyone, or a random sampling). Done properly, they can very effectively prevent people from smuggling weapons onto a plane. This seems like a well-tailored solutiuon to a specific problem.
Gathering biometric information from all government employees and contractors in order to let them view some subset of information (the documents on the nist site don't specify what info will be restricted to the PIV-holders) is a broad solution to an unspecified problem. Limiting access to federally-funded univerity research on deep-sea oceanography, for example, would be a needless collecion of unnecessary data.
Access to sensitive government info can be restricted by improving the security *around that info,* without mandating a such a massive and overbroad ID system that will collect info from people who have no need to access such sensitive information.
Pat-downs are a narrowly tailored solution to a specific problem. This ID system is a huge contract of a solution, just begging for a problem to solve.
*What* foreign research collaborations? My experience is that it is very difficult to get US money for non-US-based research. (Yes, I'm a US citizen. The UK trains very few inter-disciplinary researchers. The research group I'm in is mostly foreign researchers.)
Nah, as proven by your comment, Americans are as dumb as fuck.
When I see so much vehemence arguing an issue, I'm sure that a lot of thought has gone into considering the alternatives.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
The US had roughly 200,000 people looking for OBL, Al Qaeda and links between them & Iraq. What have they found?
For all those people locked up forever in Guantanamo - what evidence has been presented for their guilt?
Revelation 13:16-18 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a MARK in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the MARK, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Rev. 13:16-18
Keep the whitehouse white, vote Trump & Palin 2020.
Note: now that I look at your profile, you aren't even from the US. Why should I care what you think? In fact, you made my point. This post is abbreviated.
Don't care about foreigners?
Check.
Think the foreign grad students can be replaced by domestic students?
Yes.
I fail to understand your argument that, since we recruit intelligent foreigners to come and have great ideas here in the US, somehow Americans benefit.
In case you haven't noticed, the idea that the US can monopolize the "information" economy is complete crap. The rest of the world realized that sometime in the late 90's. Foreigners don't pay for the use of American intellectual property, they steal it. Likewise, we probably steal dumptruck loads of intellectual property from other countries. We're not going to occupy all the third-world shitholes that appropriate western technology from us, just as none of them will be marching into the US anytime soon.
So the end result is that Americans bankroll a huge University system so that foreigners can study here and take lots of useful info back to their home countries to build brand new factories that put Americans out of work.
I swear to God, if anything will be our downfall, it's whiny University professors more concerned with their damn "numbers" and "funding" than with the welfare of US citizens.
And, oh, by the way, it's "farther", not "further". Perhaps instead of blustering about everyone elses' lack of scientific education, you should take some humanities courses; try economics, English, and logic.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
CIA employees are federal employees, too.
Talk about recursion! Nice way to get everybody on Earth a secure job, though ;)
As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
Considering the progress of information technology, the increasing difficulty for the government to discover any illegal activities (the bad guys also have access to the same high tech) and the increasing illegal immigration, it is not that such cards are unavoidable, but bio-chips, too.
This is all far better conveyed than I could ever manage in the 3-part BBC documentary "The Power of Nightmares". And no, it's not a Michael Moore-style rant, tis actually a very very decent piece of investigative journalism that traces the histories of the neoconservatives and the fundamentalist islamists back for decades.
911 was a terrible thing, no doubt about it. But you'll have to see it in perspective. And never let anyone use such a tragedy to take away your freedom unconditionally.
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
I do research in the U.S. with the space program. I am green card but I know some colleagues that are "just" foreigners. It is already a pain for me to get into one of the Nasa or DOE centers/labs to TALK to people so we can build up on some ideas but the amount of incredibly stupid requirements on the foreigners that do not have green cards is properly idiotic. Here is a recent example, this guy does some simple computation (back of the envelope) in an area he does not know much about, but that pushes some heavy requirements on his project. He finds somebody at NASA or some contractors that did somehitng similar to what he is looking for, asks for it and then get replied "are you a U.S. citizen ?". All this for a stupid spreadsheet impementing a textbook solution....
Your fingerprint data is most assuredly in there. DOD hasn't rolled out the systems that can read your fingerprint and compare it to what's on the card... yet... but the day is coming.
Sean
_ For a few years now ... prior to 911 ... PKI at the FedG level has been a failure from initially implementation attempts to present. I suspect, because many in FedG management (about 66% or more) are more "Buzzified" than qualified [Buzz-Word knowledge useful for career management] to hold their employment position .... That BioM PIV will cause more damage than relevant success to authentication is probable (use the FedG PKI example). .... ... MS-SCO or other all seeing oracles both business, government, and the false-prophets remains clueless tyrants always focusing on blaming and controlling science and/or technology that is well outside their field of knowledge/experience. From what I can tell most are feed their lines by expert "Spin-Specialist" (the NeuNazi SS) interest. The poorly educated public frequently accepts the SS as experts for all things important in the newly developing "Banana Republic of the Americas". ... the other two-thirds only care about being recognized as the privileged and worthy few "White Collar Trash" (WCT) beautiful (skin deep) people.
_ It is about the same in USA commercial market big-business with an apparent prevailing attitude in management of "I am the DumiGod", I know all, I am all powerful, my decisions are perfect, others/things (I can blame) will cause failure,
_ Be it x-CIA boss, DCA, FBI, HDD,
_ Currently, I believe, there are only one in three politicians, government, and business (none of the pick-pocket showboat religious) executives/managers that are holding together everything
-
_ Rather than hated for SS policy, we are (by most savants) pitied for falling from potential millennium greatness to the Corporate Republic of America.
_ Terrorist would be in far greater danger if they attacked the multinational/global corporate assets/resources, hence civilian and/or military targets are preferred. Look at the history of the old banana republics of the last two centuries. Attacks upon the corporate interest and their SS would get terrorist killed quick.
-
HAVE FUN
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
Well, call us paranoid, but the OP has a point.
I'm from mainland Europe and currently a graduate student at a rather well-known University in England. While a few years ago everybody dreamed of going to MIT, Caltech and the like, most of my colleagues now look for places in Europe and Canada (and a few also in India, China, Japan, Australia and South-America). And of course _everbody_ knows someone who had big problems getting to work in the US. I have worked in Biophysics and Nuclear Physics (at the moment it's theoretical high-energy Physics). Nobody can work in these fields without doing "suspicious" things, like ordering radioactive material, transfer data in the order of several GB to and from mainland Europe, needing access to national genetic databases, searching for special types of infectious viriae etc. You might imagine the kind of problems the current national security politics in the States create for people without an US-American Passport, even if they sport the name of an ivy-league school in their email-address. I know two people _in person_ who were denied access to the states because they had a russian surname (while the guy from Stanford who wanted to pick them up at the airport waited outside in vain).
Don't get me wrong, this is NOT a big problem for these people. They'll just learn Swedish, German or French and turn the US their backs. But in the long run, the xenophobic behaviour of the US-American administration and the society as a whole will do harm to the scientific landscape of the states.
I thought Ashcroft was gone?
-Ted
Listening devices have served well over the years, but that's not the solution. The non-alienation of other cultures in our shrinking world is.
The enemy isn't Islam, it isn't America; the enemy is Self Righteousness, and Proud Ignorence. These two problems make the Four Hoursemen look like a kiddy ride.
The PIV is a responce to HSPD-12, an order from the President.
/ 20 040827-8.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08
It's funny how that'll happen, if the authority is openly abused. You've got everything from a corrupt electoral system to corporate financial fraud to the copyright law fiasco that's being used as a big stick by big media to the DoJ being all chummy with a convicted monopolist, just to give a few topical examples around here that directly affect the lives of millions of american citizens (and others). Is it any wonder when the citizenry fights back?
Since we're all so fond of aphorisms around here, please allow me to contribute my current favouriate:
Identifying who today's priests are, and the religion they follow, is left as a fairly simple exercise for the reader.
You could just, y'know, stop trying to tell everyone what to do all the time. If you treat your neighbours in the world with a little more respect, you might find a number of problems -- not least genuine terrorism by those from the Middle East -- start to get better.
Of course, when your own president decides not to attend what should have been a banquet dinner in his honour attended by senior representatives of 20 or so other states, because the USSS want to shove all these people through their draconian security and they refuse because they find it insulting, then someone's ego is a little bigger than it should be.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Fortunately for us, between knocking up a married woman, dubious actions regarding his government position vs. his private life, and then slagging off half the cabinet behind their backs and spending a whole day ringing around to apologise, Blunkett's days appear to be numbered in single figures. Tony Blair recently said Blunkett had "his full support", which is usually the kiss of death for a senior government figure in the UK...
The great irony for the week was the official Home Office statement that "Like anyone else, David Blunkett is entitled to the presumption of innocence." Anyone else except those being held without trial in Belmarsh prison with the Home Secretary's personal OK, perhaps.
Ah, well. Maybe he really has done nothing wrong, and the circumstantial evidence against him won't stand up to scrutiny. If the man who wants to force us all into a national ID database winds up losing his career despite being innocent, purely because The System decides he's a bad person and he has no practical recourse, I will laugh forever.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Two of my friends, both long-time students in the UK and engaged to British men but technically foreign nationals, seem to get strip-searched at airports with remarkable frequency. I'm sure the fact that they're both young girls who look like models has nothing to do with it (and the fact that other friends who have far less history with the country but don't look like models don't have the same problem).
Believe me, bitching about it doesn't help. Then you're just being "evasive", which gives them an excuse to do even more personally offensive things. Herein lieth the problem with the system: attempting to defend a right to a reasonable amount of privacy is counter-productive.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.