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Firefox New York Times Ad, Soon
An anonymous reader submits "CNet has an update on the status of the New York Times Firefox ad. According to the article, the delays are largely because of the decision to go with 10,000 names rather than the original 2500. The amount of content means each change to the ad requires 15 minutes of rendering. They also must be careful in crafting the ad, so that stay on the advocacy side of things. As a non-profit, they can still qualify for the under $50,000 rate, but if the ad is too commercial, they would need to pay the $130,000+ business rate. They say they're close to finishing, and the ad should run by mid-December, or at the latest, by Christmas. Firefox is also close to 10,000,000 downloads in the first month of release."
They have to pay $130,000 if the ad is "too commercial"? How is that determined? And isn't a non-profit a non-profit, no matter what kind of ads they run?
You won't hate yourself in the morning if you don't get up before noon.
If they mention using Firefox then it's going to be commercial. Although the author of the ad says they have a special guarantee about the pricing, so New York Time's standard pricing may not matter.
Just because they're a non-profit doesn't make them a good cause. If they advocate using more standard compliant browsers rather than just Firefox or Mozilla browers they're more likely to qualify as an advocacy group rather than commercial entity. But based on the promotional drive I don't see how they can not mention Firefox directly.
Joseph Elwell.
Now I can understand the delay.
After all, would we really like to see Osama bin Laden support Firefox in the New York Times?
Hmm, so the ad runs at 11 users per second.
Solution obvious! We either overclock the New York Times, or we lobby the printer industry to break the Adobe monopoly by supporting Firescript (originally called Postzilla, and occasionally still referred to as Lexscape by some marketroids at A Certain Very Big And Very Evil Corporation), the new page description language interpreter that provides for enhanced security, usability, and performance on phototypesetting equipment of all types!
Rendering the Firefox New York Times ad.
Lots of people can't move from windows because the sites they need to look at only work in the Windows version of IE. If the marketshare for IE goes down because of FireFox, sites will follow by making their pages work on it. At the same time, people will have a familiar application they can use when switching, so I would guess that this may help other platforms.
on that day by atleast a few thousand. Yet another instance of open source promoting business.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
...Will this do any good? Seriously, will some AOL user be sitting, reading the times, see the ad and go "An ad for 'FireFox'? 'Better Browser'? I better switch!" Probably not. After all, AOL already gives them a "better internet." Damned AOL ads.
Smells like a troll...
Anywho, I'll take a shot at this. Firefox and other Free, multi-platform software (Thunderbird, OpenOffice.org, etc.) reduce dependence on Windows, because people aren't stuck with Windows-specific programs. For me, the only thing stopping me from moving to Linux is gaming (I don't believe Cedega supports the games I play). Basically, Microsoft's got my "patronage" hanging by a thread, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Eventually they will see the golden island... but for now they can stay on the sinking ship if they want to. I think most of the community is hoping that this will show the majority of people that open source is the better alternative. I haven't recieved one piece of adware since I switched to Firebird (and later to Firefox)
will there be any room left for branding and/or blurb?
They might be non profit company making free software but they are threatening other companies' buisness model. Time will tell...
Fucking a fat girl is like riding a scooter... it's fun 'til someone sees you.
That is actually a really nice idea, and a clever way to promote open source.
It would perhaps be better to have the source code in the advert, but the idea remains that they are free to do that kind of thing, as only open software can.
They should buys some popups advertising for the popup-blocker
I think you're talking about corporate and intranet applications. I haven't used Windows or IE in years, and I can't think of one useful site I am unable to use because I surf exclusively in Mozilla/Firefox.
.. Ah: I can think of one site that won't let me shop with Firefox -- Pitney Bowes (see sig). But I can complete my payments over the phone or through the mail, so it hasn't stopped me from using their service.
Marketshare would assume a commercial site; even my bank lets me use Firefox.
Two points, both of which will no doubt get me flamed to hell and back:
1. If 10,000 flies can't be wrong, what does that say about the millions that buy Microsoft products? From the viewpoint of the majority of the readers here, aren't those Microsoft customers wrong? Quantity never implies quality, my friend.
2. It might not be open source, but Opera perhaps meets your description of "the most reasonably standards compliant, light weight, cross platform web browser ever made" more than Firefox does. Opera is available for more platforms, is smaller in size (even with a greater feature set that includes an email client, etc), better integrated and more polished.
Yes, there are some very, very minor incompatibility issues but the Opera development team has always done a good job of ironing out any wrinkles that do appear. And, as you've alluded to yourself, there's no such thing as problem-free browsing (at least on any non-Microsoft browser) nowadays.
Other than that, well done to everyone who's contributed to the development of Firefox, no matter how great or small their contribution.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I'm curious about the timing of the ad. The last two weeks of the year are when most corporate executives take vacations ... meaning they may not keep up with news in the Times ... meaning if the goal is to convince these guys to use Firefox in their corporations, they may miss the target market entirely. I suppose you could make the case that these same guys now have more time to sit on a beach and read the Times, but has any thought been put into the timing of this thing?
I wonder if the amount of press coverage they've had about the ad will give them more exposure than the ad itself.
I think people must come to open source software in general, before they start migrating to Linux. Still, the reputation of FOSS in the general public is not so good, Firefox could change this (although I have heard lots of complaints about it too, like the unability to automatically sort bookmarks out-of-the-box).
--
Roman
www.ontographics.com
Roman Kennke
10,000 names on a page are so many that practically none of them will be readable and it will create confusion by people reading the add wondering why there is soo much background in a full page add.
No it doesn't. If you can have the same web browser on both platforms, would logically that encourage or discourage someone to explore the other platform?
If Microsoft Office was out for linux, many of the people that can justify not moving to linux can no longer justify it. The less Windows-only applications being used, the less Windows-only environments.
My company does pre-press work for marketing campaigns. If they need 15 minutes to render a postscript file (or PDF) they need better hardware. We use off-the-shelf gear (PC and Mac, none of it SMP) and nothing we do that is full-page size takes 15 minutes, even at 300 dpi.
What're they using, a PII-400???
My experience with firefox has been if I tell someone to use it they do, most of the time without questioning why. Not a hint of concern about 'publicized' IE security flaws of Microsoft failings. Seems most users just want to surf the net, take care of business or whatever. I guess this can still be claimed as a victory for firefox...
I don't understand why Firefox is blowing 50K to put an ad in the NYT. A single ad is not going to cause anyone to adopt the browser - it is well known that ads take a lot of impressions to get someone to get action on it.
As a "thank you" to the community it is pretty weak as well. It thanks only the NYT bottom line.
A well-hyped $50K 1.0 launch party would be a better way to generate press and motivate people to switch to the browser. It would get far wider coverage than a single page in one edition of the NYT.
Look into Neopost, Hasler and Postalia (now Francotype?). The secret is to switch from one to another every few years, so that you are always getting their low, introductory rates. If you're using the small, one-piece machines, that's eminently practical.
See what I've been reading.
...and go with a "And Many, Many Others" tag at the end of the listing or something like that.
If they're the kind of people giving money to an open source browser project, I doubt they're going to raise much of a fuss if their name doesn't get specifically mentioned.
What "names" are they talking about? And a 15 minute ad?! Are they fucking insane?
The Magic Clue-Ball(tm) tells me the New York Times is a newspaper, not a TV station. That means no moving video. Some things should be spelled out. Others belong to that category I like to call "general knowledge everyone but you seems to know".
It's precisely the attitude of Linux elitist uber-geeks like you, that is keeping the chasm between Linux and Windows, uncrossable.
The REAL reason for people to have less reasons to move off Windows is because they DON'T find their favorite Windows software on Linux.
So, people need to adopt Firefox as part of their "favorite Windows software", and guess what, it's ALREADY on Linux!
What Linux REALLY needs to overthrow Windows, is a multiplatform RAD environment for C++ (and maybe *cough* Visual Basic *cough* equivalent), so Windows users will start developing multi-platform apps without having to code everything by hand.
Paraphrasing Archimedes: "Give me a cross-platform RAD, and I shall move the world".
So far, Firefox doesn't only give us a great cross-platform browser, but also XUL. And that does much more to help people build bridges between Linux and Windows, than your "screw windows users" attitude.
S'wunnerful, but pop-up and ads drive many sites, so don't expect too ringing an endorsement from sites which get zip-nada revenue from Firefox surfers. Expect many sites to continue to endorse IE, since it helps their bottom line.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Maybe it hurts Linux but it helps free software because it introduces people who don't know what it is to it and give them a good first impression.
But it probably doesn't hurt Linux either because if every software could run both on Windows and Linux like Firefox does then the only reason to stay with Windows would be if you thought it was better than Linux, not because your app doesn't run on Linux.
It also helps Linux because should a Firefox using company/user decide to try Linux it gives them something familiar to feel a bit more at home, making the transition easier.
So your assertion that it hurts Linux certainly is debatable.
Well, I guess IHBT, IHBH so I will HAND.
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
I love Opera and I would still be using it (if only for that gorgeous "I'm still loading the page and this is how fast I'm loading it" bar). The only gripe with opera is it doesn't support plugins or nice stuff that firefox can (such as external toolbars), nor can you customise things like the search list. Otherwise, Opera would be top of my list.
Get paid to search..It's geniune and
As the original poster of the mentioned article about Firefox in Saugus my point was that the New York Times article idea may not be the most effective because many of the New York Times readers are still reading newspapers because they haven't figured out the Internet yet.
I'd personally like to see the energy being spent to go into more effective advertising. The article promoting Firefox on Saugus.net is meant to be just one example... Saugus.net has a history of promoting free software, though; I'd like to see more local sites without such a history getting into the act.
Momentum. If they wait until January the rapidly tapering buzz around 1.0 will be gone. Strike while the iron is hot.
This isn't a branch of government. We're talking about the New York Times. Surely they can decide whether to charge Firefox the correct rate based on the message.
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
10,000 people on slashdot criticizing an ad they haven't even seen yet.
Personally, if a person looks at the ad long enough to wonder why there are so many names on the page they're NOT EVEN LEGIBLE, then I think that accomplishes the task at hand -- promoting firefox.
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
What about the people who download it once and use it on multiple computers? Not only in a home network, for instance, but for organizations. The numbers game goes both ways.
As an Apple user, I always thought it odd how we Apple fanatics got excited enough about advertisements to discuss them in public forums. Are there forums where people get all hot and heavy over Microsoft advertising? :-)
Currently hooked on AMP
Could someone who has donated change their name to Bill Gates please? Thanks!
I like muppets.
So? To me, I fell that getting people to switch to open, cross-platform standards and programs is much more important than switching people to Linux/*BSD/Mac OS/insert non-MS OS here. Firefox is available on all current, mainstream platforms (Windows, *nix, OS X). If we get Windows users to see the benefits of open source software that conforms to open standards, then whenever they move to Linux/BSD, OS X, or Da Whizbang OS 2010, their data would move seamlessly without lock-in because of proprietary, closed-source "standards" (cough MS Office cough), not to mention that the only things that the users would have to relearn would be things related to the operating system.
Besides that, Firefox is helping to solve one of the biggest problems in Windows Land: malware. With a firewall behind the connection, and a Firefox guiding the Internet, Windows users would be much safer than using Internet Exploder.
Finally, Firefox is bring awareness to the general computing public that not all computer users use Windows and Internet Explorer. Whenever we're browsing on our *nix boxen, Macintoshes, or secure Windows machines, trying to check our credit cards, look at music, or browse other sites, the last thing that we need is for some message to pop up saying, "You're not running an up to date browser. Please intall Internet Explorer 5 or later." No, we want our website! Thanks to the efforts of the Mozilla project as well as makers of other browsers (Opera, Konqueror, Safari, etc.), us non-Windows users can browse almost whatever site we want to.
So, when you say that Firefox running on Windows will hurt Linux adoption, remember the long term goals. What do you want, a world where everyone runs your favorite OS, or a world where everyone can choose their OS, but be able to run applications that share open standards.
It depends who the target is. If you are targetting Corporate "Suits," then the newspaper add makes sense. You would be surprised how many IT decisions are made by non-technical people in big corporations. If they see it in "the legitimate press" then it adds credibility.
Insert Generic Sig Here:
While Opera has some interesting features like mouse gestures, it's really hard to imagine that anyone who's spent any amount of time using both would actually prefer Opera. I spent years using Opera as my main browser. I even purchased it.
When Firefox came along though, it won me over. It simply doesn't crash like Opera does.
Excuse me as I think I haven't seen a NYT since many years ago, but usually the resolution of images, pictures and adds overall in press suck. Even in glassy paper magazines I can hardly imagine 10 000 names in one page. Is it a double page ad? B/W or color?
I know I am wrong, but right now i can only think of a blurry page.
__
Sig: Marine Stock Photos
In related news, this poster is appearing all over Oslo, Norway. Spotting it the other day was one of those unwordly moments where you're seeing a little-known niche thing becoming mainstream. Then yesterday I had a meeting with the IT manager at a government agency; those guys have always been Internet Explorer users, and now Firefox was running on the guy's desktop. The fact that Firefox is actively competing with IE now is going to be good for the Internet.
In reply to your points:
1. That 10,000 people use it doesn't make it good, but the existence of the ad argues a lot of people use and like it, so it might be worth a look. Everyone who uses the web has heard of IE and MS, but not necessarily Firefox. This may convince them to check it out, or to take the advice or a friend or coworker who said they should try it. The only thing that should convince them it's good is how it performs once they try it. Another nuance is, it's not just that 10,000 people use it, it's that 10,000 people payed good money to put the ad in for no direct personal gain (in most cases). I don't know if that would be clear to readers, but you must admit you'd be hard pressed to find people doing this for MS products.
2. I used to use Opera; I even payed for it at one point. The reason I switched for Mozilla/Firefox was that more sites seemed to work well in Mozilla and it seemed to be more polished and well documented in a lot of ways, with a more active community. That may have changed since Opera 6.0, but my point is that I think they both qualify fairly well on those points. I think the important point here is the other, tacit qualification, which is that it's free. Many people won't pay for a browser when they can get one for free (and banner ad free). I know I have felt that Opera and Firefox are pretty competitive, but Opera is certainly not so much better (in my opinion) as to warrent paying the money or suffering the banner ads.
"You call it a new way of thinking; I call it regression to ignorance!" -- Operation Ivy
fine names of Iwanna Tingle, Hugh Jass and Pat McGroin in print.
Whoa, thanks for the info! World of Warcraft is fully supported, and Shattered Galaxy and FF XI may work! I may be able to switch to Linux after all!
Last time I checked (which is about a month ago), Opera would choke on xml documents using xslt transforms that both Mozilla and IE (duh!) rendered just fine. Maybe I'm just a corner case, but that's one 'less compliant' instance for Opera.
Umm... sure, let's patronize them.. that makes sense....
I think some people are crazy.
They want EYE BALLS, there for the NYT fits the bill. I mean really, who would you suggest? USA Today?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Sssssssssssh! I'm giving everyone I know FireFox for Christmas! Don't let them know it's free! They'll all think I'm a cheap ass!
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Now, quite a lot of people tried to post this on Slashdot, but for some reason, these stories seem to have been rejected wholesale. I fail to see the reasoning behind this: Being U.S. centered is one thing, trying to supress the first example of an ad that the world has been holding its breath for quite another. It would be nice if the editors forced themselves to give a reason when they rejected postings or at least created a section where people can look at them.
Doesn't the latest XP service pack disable popups in IE by default? From what I've read, popups are the most profitable methods of advertising as well as being the most annoying. In order to block other advertisements with FF the user has to act independently with extension installs and most people probably won't bother
No it isn't.
I still use Opera in Win&Linux on fast&slow machines for three big reasons:
The only thing I use FireFox for is web development and viewing flash and other embedded media (w/ the MPlayer plugin).
Power to the Peaceful
In addition to the MSI mentioned, there's also this:
http://firefox.dbltree.com/
If they put 250k in euros now, then when the $$$ goes down, they can transfer back and make even more of a profit.
At the least hedge it by putting 30% in USA gold certificates at kitco.com and 30% in Euro banks, and 30% in USA cash funds earning SFA.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.