Solar-Powered Autonomous Underwater Vehicles

sunhou writes "A couple of months ago, researchers tested a solar-powered autonomous underwater vehicle (SAUV) at RPI's Darrin Fresh Water Institute. (More pictures and links to info available at the Autonomous Undersea Systems Institute.) Current autonomous underwater vehicles (AUVs) need to be taken out of the water often to have their batteries recharged. The goal is to have groups of cooperating SAUVs loaded with sensors and networking equipment deployed on long-term monitoring missions. Watch out Sky-Net, here comes Sea-Net! (See also the recent story about The Argo Project.)"

Comments

Perhaps someone should tell them

[Anonymous Coward]

That it's dark underwater.

Re:Perhaps someone should tell them

[Anonymous Coward]

Last I checked you got more light down there from the radioactive Squids than from the sun.

Re:Perhaps someone should tell them

[Capt'n Hector]

Just as dolphins and whales need to go to the surface once in a while to breathe, this thing probably can dive deep, but needs to surface every once in a while to recharge.

Re:Perhaps someone should tell them

[commodoresloat]

Better hope it doesn't start raining while you're down there....

Re:Perhaps someone should tell them

[InfinityBuffer]

God forbid it start snowing.

Re:Perhaps someone should tell them

[bryan986]

Perhaps you should look at this http://mbgnet.mobot.org/salt/oceans/zone.htm

Re:Perhaps someone should tell them

[double-oh three]

It's saltwater, odds are snow will melt upon contact anyway. Just dive right below the surface and go into power-conservation mode if you need to get away from the snow.

Re:Perhaps someone should tell them

[4-D4Y]

It would be economically beneficial to mine the ocean floor. It may be more useful to have mining vehicles transduce heat from their surroundings into electricity. This would give mankind incentive to destroy otherwise prisitine deep sea vents.

Re:Perhaps someone should tell them

[Anonymous Coward]

since when do we need incentive to destory anything?

we do pretty good by merely operating on a whim...

Re:Perhaps someone should tell them

[kd5ujz]

Surley it has slightly positive boyancy, just in case. It could go into low power mode, float to the surface, recharge in a few days, and start transmitting its location.

Re:Perhaps someone should tell them

[Anonymous Coward]

what's the porpose of that?

Re:Perhaps someone should tell them

[MADCOWbeserk]

I think the Polish government built a solar powered sub in the eighties....

Re:Perhaps someone should tell them

[gl4ss]

if it's _any_ non-frozen water snow will melt right away...

but that's the kind of thing one would know if you were during the fall at anywhere where it snows.

Re:Perhaps someone should tell them

[tylernt]

"It would be economically beneficial to mine the ocean floor"

Probably not. Countries only have a few hundred miles or so off their coasts that they can rape for resources, which is only a small fraction of the world's oceans. The rest is international waters and international treaty, for the most part, makes it difficult or impossible to harvest resources there. See http://www.luf.org/artisle.html for more info.

There missions must not go very deep.

[andywebz]

I guess all of their missions and exploration will be very close to the surface. Unless there is some underwater solar energy source I'm unaware of.

Re:There missions must not go very deep.

[TooMuchEspressoGuy]

No one's saying that it has to remain hundreds of feet below the waves at all times. They could easily program the vehicle to surface, recharge itself via solar energy, and go back down again.

Re:There missions must not go very deep.

[Jeff DeMaagd]

It is still pretty slow. Even at the surface, solar power isn't very efficient in terms of cost or energy conversion, and below water, it takes a LOT of power to move about. Cheaper than replacing batteries manually? I suppose it would be. It would be good for very long term projects, I suppose.

Re:There missions must not go very deep.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is an underwater energy source, but it's not solar. More like thermo. Perhaps they should become hybrids and convert heat into energy.

Re:There missions must not go very deep.

[AndyL]

We keep a spare sun under the Atlantic ocean.

You know, just in case.

Re:There missions must not go very deep.

[kureido]

One of the amazing things about being underwater is that it's not difficult for a submersible not to be underwater anymore. That, combined with the amazing things done with solar cells, batteries, and Ohm's Law for the last twenty years makes me fairly confident that the team's premise is sound.

Seriously, why is that comment insightful? Will I get modded up the next time an article on solar farms goes up if I question the decision to build the farm in a location where sometimes it's not daytime?

Re:There missions must not go very deep.

[Gogo Dodo]

The point of the project is to have autonomous, long-term vehicles, so there wouldn't be anybody around to replace the batteries.

Re:There missions must not go very deep.

[BlowChunx]

If you are only slightly heavier than the surrounding water, and shaped like a wing, then gliding slowly down to depth is not energy intensive.

When you reach the depth you want, pump the ballast out (or use electrolysis to make gas?) and slowly rise to the surface, again gliding slowly upwards.

With the yo-yo glider technique, you can cover huge areas.

Re:There missions must not go very deep.

[tylernt]

"When you reach the depth you want, pump the ballast out (or use electrolysis to make gas?)" This was covered on /. before: IIRC, the subs pumped oil into a bladder that increased their volume and made them positively bouyant (and vice versea).

Re:There missions must not go very deep.

[tylernt]

You are correct of course, the temperature difference between the surface and at depth is what OTEC technology is built around. However, I fail to see a good way for a miniature sub to make use of it. OTEC requiers a really, really long pipe extending from the surface to several hundred feet deep and even then doesn't produce much net power).

But then, I don't have a degree in engineering or thermal dynamics, so maybe I'm missing some finer points. :)

Re:There missions must not go very deep.

[nartz]

This part is a little off topic... As previously thought, plants/animals/etc were thought to be nonexistant in the deeper regions of the earth. But hydrothermal vents have been prevalently discovered with an abundance of life.

In biology, we see analogy, or the convergence of organism's appendages and structures due to similar environmental pressures. A quick example is the likeness of a sharks fin and a penguins 'fin,' (they are most certainly not homologous structures). With that said, I feel we must employ the so called intelligence of millions of years of evolution.

Already in progress are the development of ships that move in the water like fish, with undulating tails swinging back and forth, a much more efficient model. But what about energy capture?
Now here's where I get on topic. Are we not exploiting hydrothermal vents that too, at the same time, could be used as energy sources? These so called ships could easily convert the heat energy and last under the water for months upon a time, stopping at checked locations with known thermal vents, recharging through heat generated. Hey, if the organisms can do it, so can the robots!

Re:There missions must not go very deep.

[jepaton]

... (or use electrolysis to make gas?) ...

If you use electrolysis on water, then you get a highly explosive gas mixture of Oxygen and Hydrogen.

To reduce buoyancy you need to either eject the gas. If you use a valve, it could clog and also be a possible ignition source. If you burn it, you it would have to be at a controlled rate, or you sink quickly.

All jokes aside

[Icarus1919]

All jokes aside about it being dark underwater, this is going to be very helpful for research in large bodies of water. They can put a UAV with sensors and movement devices in say the Pacific and monitor the surface areas for long periods of time without ever needing to go back and "fill 'er up". We'll be able to monitor pollution levels, surface temperatures, ocean currents, all sorts of things much more efficiently.

Re:All jokes aside

[mark-t]

Actually, This person is.

(Mod -3 off-topic, overrated, troll)

Re:All jokes aside

[Fishstick]

God - never ceases to amaze me how there are people with enough time on their hands to register an account and then use it to reply to every post saying 'you must be new here'.

Re:All jokes aside

[cooley]

What cracks me up is that if you look at recent comments posted by the user "New Here", most of them have been modded down to -1; some of them have maintained zero.

However, the post from some other user saying the same thing is modded +5 funny.

Good times.

Re:All jokes aside

[IO ERROR]

One thing a lot of people seem to have missed (it helps to RTFA) is that the Naval Undersea Warfare Center is kicking in dollars for this project. What do you suppose they're monitoring down there?

Re:All jokes aside

[Maquis_00]

Well, the Navy doesn't get to set up cool missile systems in space, so, they're going to set them up underwater... After all, it'd be hard for another country to see what's going on down there... A little less conspicuous than launching everything into space... :)
~Maquis

Re:All jokes aside

[leinhos]

Underwater Mines, for one.

But the Vehicle used by the NUWC people is a REMUS, from th Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI), which does all sorts of oceanographic monitoring.

How can I misread one stupid word?

[gardyloo]

Anyone else see that as "Solar-Powered Autonomous Underwear Vehicles"? 'cause, at least for me, that's talking about a spot where the sun don't normally shine...

Re:How can I misread one stupid word?

[Anonymous Coward]

I read the same thing - "underwear"

My first thought was "Sweet Jesus, these modders just never quit do they!"

Re:How can I misread one stupid word?

[Anonymous Coward]

omg ditto AOL AOL.

It must be something about the surrounding words - usually I don't confuse "underwater" - but I definitely saw this. Freaky.

Drug Smugglers

[Anonymous Coward]

So just how long will it be till Columbian drug smugglers use autonmous vehicles to bring over loads of cocaine? Sounds like an easy way for them to get loads through without worrying about people getting busted if they are caught.

Re:Drug Smugglers

[EnronHaliburton2004]

Many of the drug dealers probably don't worry about people getting busted, since people are expendable. They worry about losing the drugs, which can still happen with an autonomous vehicle.

Re:Drug Smugglers

[lawpoop]

Or, someone swimming a nuclear bomb undected into a port city.

Re:Drug Smugglers

[Anonymous Coward]

So just how long will it be till Columbian drug smugglers use autonmous vehicles to bring over loads of cocaine?

Easier to go out to some random large ship heading for the US and weld a ring to the bottom of the hull, and tie on a bundle of drugs in watertight packages. Then send a diver out to cut the bundle loose when the ship reaches it's destination. The ship probably wouldn't notice the extra drag, and since all the work is under water, there is little change of being spotted. The pickup would be the most dangerous time, and the diver could have a tow rope payed out from a nearby boat, to drag him and the drugs away from the ship the second he cuts them loose.

Re:Drug Smugglers

[Jameth]

People are cheaper than autonomous vehicles.

Re:Drug Smugglers

[Shawndeisi]

The problem with this is that those vehicles would cost a lot of money to create, whereas you can exploit some poor soul by recruiting them to be your drug mule. Cheap, effective, and already mastered. Nice idea, but the need just isn't there.

Re:Drug Smugglers

[Wes Janson]

Mucho bien. We'll look into this immediately. Gracias, amigo!

-Your Friends to the South

Re:Drug Smugglers

[PornMaster]

I don't see why they wouldn't use very-low-sitting GPS-guided unmanned boats.

Re:Drug Smugglers

[kd5ujz]

This brings up a good point. A small submersible would be very manuverable, and thus able to follow terrain easily. It would be hard to detect with sonar, and I doubt some of the harbours have radar nice enough to detect this object. Im sure there are ways to detect metal, but it has been obvious in the past week that they are not used, or are ignored. Look at the Oil tanker that hit a peice of scrap pipe. You could equip said submerssible with a nice explosive payload, and detonate it below the SS super duper oil tanker, and like a depth charge, the resulting air cavity from the explosion will "break the back" of the tanker.

Re:Drug Smugglers

[X0563511]

Radar? Underwater? Do you mean active sonar? Yes, there are ways of detecting metal. They are used on anti-sub planes and helicopters (such as the Orion) to detect an otherwise silent submarine (but those will only detect that 300+ foor titanium monster, not the plastic 5- foor minisub) I forget what it is called (been a while since i loaded up my sub sim lately - how many other slashdotters can say they can use the sonar systems on the Akula, Los Angeles, and Seawolf classes, and work a firing solution out with TMA?)

Re:Drug Smugglers

[X0563511]

er, how did i type 'foor' twice instead of 'foot'? And why do all my carriage returns get ignored (there is supposed to be 3 breaks in the above comment)?

Re:Drug Smugglers

[lawpoop]

Carriage returns are stripped out. Use the html 'br' or 'p' tags ( replace '' with greater-than and less-than signs. I can't type it that way or else I'd get weird breaks in my post!)

Re:Drug Smugglers

[tylernt]

One method of sub detection is their magnetic signature. Which is why, periodically, each U.S. sub goes into this big demagnetizaion machine.

Another way is via thermal signature. Subs with those nice, hot, nuclear reactors tend to leave a trail of slightly warmer water.

Autonomous?

[TooMuchEspressoGuy]

"Current autonomous underwater vehicles (AUVs) need to be taken out of the water often to have their batteries recharged."

Well, then they're not exactly autonomous, are they?

Re:Autonomous?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if they are smart enough, they'll beach themselves onto the beach like whales do to recharge and wait for people to put them back into the water.

Re:Autonomous?

[Anonymous Coward]

this has to be autonomous, because the acronym for Solar-powered Underwater Vehicle (SUV) is already patented.

Re:Autonomous?

[rossdee]

"this has to be autonomous, because the acronym for Solar-powered Underwater Vehicle (SUV) is already patented."

Wouldn't that be a SPUV ?

Re:Autonomous?

[Council]

All joking aside, the "autonomous" means it isn't getting controlled constantly by people watching the video feedback, which is usually the case.

I've built a few subersibles to do lake-bottom surveys in New England that were basically glorified radio-controlled cars, and from what I understand that's basically how the Titanic-exploring bots worked. There's been some absolutely fascinating talk about building an army of small subs like the ones in this story that can survey automatically, giving us -- finally -- a decent seafloor map.

And the potential -- imagine locating every single shipwreck of every ship that sunk throughout history. I mean, that's a little bit of a stretch, but you get the idea. So I'm glad to see this step in the right direction.

Delivery vehicles

[idolcrash]

Wouldn't it be possible to collect the solar energy at the surgace, and send the energy through a cable down to the AUV? This assumes that they are already controlled by signals sent through cables, however, and I'm not sure if remote controls are used or what, but it seems a bit more effective (as far as I can tell) then collecting light under the sea (as is implied).

Of course, then there is the problem of a shark or other large animal running into the cable (hopefully, if it is remote controlled, it will be able to resurface in time, or some mechanism can be put in place to detect a cable break and automatically surface).

Re:Delivery vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

the word is autonomous

1. Not controlled by others or by outside forces; independent: an autonomous judiciary; an autonomous division of a corporate conglomerate.
2. Independent in mind or judgment; self-directed.
3.
1. Independent of the laws of another state or government; self-governing.
2. Of or relating to a self-governing entity: an autonomous legislature.
3. Self-governing with respect to local or internal affairs: an autonomous region of a country.

Having something else to aid it, by giving it power, would be completely UNautonomous. Not to mention, wires are just a bad idea.

It can sit at the surface a few hours, collect some energy, then dive back under again. What's wrong with that?

Re:Delivery vehicles

[roseblood]

YOU:
Not to mention, wires are just a bad idea.

ME:
Put your money where your mouth is and unplug your computer :)

Re:Delivery vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you can have something like airplanes have where another plane can refuel them in mid-air. You could have a refuel vehicle connected to power cable go down to the underwater vehicle and recharge it.

Re:Delivery vehicles

[rzebram]

They're "Autonomous Underwater Vehicles." Many of the existing AUV's are preprogrammed and surface later to be recovered by researchers after they have collected their data or need to be recharged. This has the advantage of not having to have a larger vessel up on the surface controlling the vehicle and tying up more resources.

well...

[roseblood]

I for one welcome our Solar Powered Autonomous Underwater Overlords...as long as they stay solar powered and don't decide to use us for batteries!

Nuclear Energy!

[eln]

I think for long-term underwater exploration, nuclear is the most practical way to go. A nuclear power source can last indefinitely underwater (depending on how much fuel you have) and is not dependent on the weather if and when it does surface.

Re:Nuclear Energy!

[koick]

As a scientist who has used an AUV in the Antarctic, I can assure you we would not want to mess with the bureaucracy/logistics of nuclear power. Some big battery packs and no demands for the vehicle to move fast are all one needs really to collect some very interesting sub-surface data.

Re:Nuclear Energy!

[frankvl]

And you'll buy it for them?

Re:Nuclear Energy!

[ACDChook]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but (assuming nothing breaks down) can't all power sources last indefinitely, depending on how much fuel you have? I know my car will run indefinitely, the only limiting factor being how much fuel I have (again, assuming no breakdowns).

Re:Nuclear Energy!

[Scudsucker]

I think he's speaking relatively...being able to stay underwater for twenty or more years at a time would functionally count as "indefinetly" for me.

Practicality?

[FireballX301]

Submersibles as we have them now have a line to the ship to feed electricity and data. In case of the submersible failing, they can be towed to the surface.

But what would happen if the submersible lost contact with the ship? If there was a power/electrical failure? Thats quite a bit of pocket change lost to the sea.

Not to mention...

[wasted]

..the difficulty with radio transmissions. The article mentions networking to transmit the data. If underwater networking was easy, the US Navy wouldn't have used ELF (Extremely Low Frequency) systems to control their submarines.

Re:Not to mention...

[AndyL]

It looks like the subs surface to communicate and recharge.

Re:Not to mention...

[tylernt]

Erm, they didn't exactly "control" their subs with ELF like a remote control, they used it to send orders to the sub commanders. Usually it was an order to come to periscope depth so a more traditional radio link could be established -- ELF transmissions were extremely slow, somewhere around 50 baud.

IIRC, the sub had to be pretty close to the surface and/or deploy a floating antenna in order to receive the transmissions anyway. This with a transmitter that was what, a megawatt or so? Nowadays supposedly there is blue-green laser technology that enables communications with subs at depth, but I doubt that's available for an application such as the article describes.

The really cool auv

[Camel Pilot]

Imagine an auv that collects its energy from plankton? It is great idea and I would like to patent it but I think there may be some prior art on this idea. :(

Re:The really cool auv

[Fishstick]

wasn't there supposed to be some technology by now that would harvest energy from the differential in salinity/temperature between different depths of sea water? Or is that on a larger scale than would be practical with a submersible?

Re:The really cool auv

[Hao Wu]

It might not be just a good idea, but necessary for long term missions. The thing's going to be covered with slime and barnacles after just a few months. I wonder if they've thought of that.

Uh-oh

[Dekks]

Just don't let captain Murphy get his hands on it...

Re:Uh-oh

[Murphy(c)]

Right, what do I have to do with it ?

Copyright

[zmilo]

Watch out Sky-Net, here comes Sea-Net! Yeah, the current C-Net http://www.c-net.com/ sucks...

i think i know why it's autonomous

[apostrophesemicolon]

the vehicles probably are set to surface when the battery is low. including calculations on timing such as when to rise up (morning?),

so YES, they ARE (or might be) autonomous...

buoyancy power!

[linoleo]

Why bother with solar panels and propellers? A buoyancy glider powered from temperature gradients is far more efficient. And you can use it where the sun don't shine, even off-planet.

Re:buoyancy power!

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been reading Slashdot too long. Why when you mentioned "where the sun don't shine" did my brain think Goatse.

Shoot me now.

Please.

(null)

[cyko500]

I don't see any problem wth it running out of electricity. If it is down too deep to collect any light and is low on energy it could just shift boyancy, go into a low power standby mode, and float to surface.

When it charges back up, kick into full gear and go kick some more deepwater-glow-in-the-dark-space-robot-extreme godzilla ass or whatever...

We must harness the power of THE SUN to defeat deepwater-glow-in-the-dark-space-robot-extreme godzilla!!!!!! Uh, shit, I'm a dumbass...

Anyhow, that seems to make sense to me (well, except that godzilla part). I'm a total dumbass, though, so feel free to point and laugh.

Re:(null)

[kfg]

Anyhow, that seems to make sense to me. . .

That's because it's both obvious and makes sense.

I'm a total dumbass, though, so feel free to point and laugh.

That, too, is both obvious and makes sense. Consider it done.

KFG

Underwear

[iswm]

Am I the only one who thought the subject said "Solar-Powered Autonomous Underwear Vehicles"?

Re:Underwear

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. And you didn't thought the subject said that either, you're just trying to get a Funny moderation without actually having anything funny to say...

Re:Underwear

[thatshortkid]

Nope

don't tell the cartels

[Anonymous Coward]

smugglers everywhere just raised their eyebrows a bit

In other News...

[Anonymous Coward]

Inventors of the Roomba have just anounced their latest invention dubbed: the SPAUva. They say it's main purpose will be cleaning up after those dirty little fishes that just crap anywhere in the ocean..Come on, even cats are smart enough to use litter boxes.

Catching these

[wooby]

I can see nerds getting involved in the outdoors once again, bringing a whole new meaning to "phishing" - rigging up Zodiacs with networked fishfinder arrays and catching for themselves the latest in autonomous underwater robot technology.

Hell, I'd steal one.

I could slap Linux on it, make its hostname a Douglas Adams character, and brag on a mailing list somewhere.

Re:Catching these

[MaskedKumquat]

I can see nerds getting involved in the outdoors once again, bringing a whole new meaning to "phishing" - rigging up Zodiacs with networked fishfinder arrays and catching for themselves the latest in autonomous underwater robot technology.

Hell, I'd steal one.

Myself, I'm going to wait until the researchers notice the fleet's numbers are increasing without any new deployments. When the original units mysteriously stop communicating with their satellite uplinks, it will be open season on the buggers. That said, I look forward to the day we can track them down and reprogram them for free.

Those who can't wait for the inevitable hunt should, in the meantime, visit their local Department of Agriculture and discover the wonders of "invasive species." In Oregon, there are some pretty nifty critters that can sought out and... repurposed.

That said, I don't think there's a version of Linux that runs on a Nutria. Yet.

Re:Catching these

[Rolker]

It already runs Linux...

Shh..

[kristopher]

It actually runs on the pent up sexual angst of slashdot users.

Watch out, Sky-Men!

[Anonymous Coward]

Here comes...

alternative to solar.. uh... water power?

[radarsat1]

i wonder if it's possible to engineer something that would have them continuously recharge from the movement of the undersea water currents..

There is a SeaNet

[Anonymous Coward]

SeaNet already exists:

Not an anonymous coward, just one with too many accounts!
Dale Chayes

Yes. We here at C Corp. call ours a Wale(tm)(c).

[tchalvak]

Its patent is currently registered with C Corp, but the patent has been contested in the past by such notaries as Neptune LLC, Jonah Ltd, Pinocchio Inc, and Raffi (he filed in referrence to a blue version which has been reduced to 40-80,000 remaining models world-wide, and the production of which has been mostly halted).

Tasks for underwater robotic vehicles

[Lotharjade]

You know, a good task for a group of Solar-Powered Autonomous Underwater Vehicles would be for them to set out in a search pattern and map/photograph the sea floor in fishing areas (and others?) so that all the crap on the sea floor could be logged, and appropriate ships and/or underwater vehicles could be sent out to clean up (besides any science tasks that could also be completed at same time). I used to do commercial fishing, and we were ALWAYS picking up crap from past fishermen. Lines, nets, anchors, etc... Would be cool to have a way to clean up.

Re:Yes. We here at C Corp. call ours a Wale(tm)(c)

[Anonymous Coward]

It's WHALE, retard.