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Computer-based Guitar Training?
rfischer asks: "I am hoping that Santa brings me a guitar for Christmas this year. I know there are a lot of computer- and web-based tools for teaching yourself guitar, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what's best, and if any of these computer-based methods have any advantage over the classic training courses. Anyone been down this road before?"
It's a bit like learning acting over the net. Not useless, but insufficent to teach what is necessary.
Unless you just want to "fake" some songs - then you can likely just buy a couple fakebooks (check your local music store for fakebooks), some of which come with DVDs. Learning a song or two is very different than learning to play the guitar.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Shameless plug: http://guitarport.com
Don't take my word for it. Take a look.
You probably want to get yourself a real-life teacher if you can afford it.
The only one I'm familiar with that is related to an actually well-known guitar player is http://www.zagerguitar.com/. Zager is half of Zager and Evans, a group that had an international hit ("In the Year 2525") a long time ago.
I especially like the fact that he refers to himself as the "world's greatest one hit wonder". There are plenty of videos on the website for you to decide what you think.
I can't help it - I'm a 19D.
...and musician, please get thee to a true real-life human teacher. There are so many asshat guitarists who don't jack, yet think they are top shit because they are "self taught".
Me: "Hey, can you play that Asus7 again, I think I got something here."
Guitarist: "Dude, I just sounded like Ozzie! OMFG I AM TEH R0X0RZ D00D1!!!"
I use this one. There are some other tools at their site. This one has more of a guitary look.
Me: "Hey, can you play that Asus7 again, I think I got something here."
Guitarist: "Dude, I just sounded like Ozzie! OMFG I AM TEH R0X0RZ D00D1!!!"
As a human being, please learn to speak and write English...
I am also getting a guitar this holiday season. It'll be my second after four years and is long overdue (my current one is a $50 Memphis). This whole time, I have been taking music lessons. Unfortunately, much of what I've been learning has been "enriched faking". That is, I learn how to play a song and in the process learn about some of the styles, techniques, etc. of playing it (from a real human being). Now, my teacher is a real find - top notch guy - but I think it's time for some serious studying on my own in addition.
The downside is that it has been a while since I learned any music theory. It's something I'm loathe to do, but I recognize its necessity. I think that this could be learned quite effectively from a book and CD/DVD. Regardless of what you turn up for learning the basics on your own, I think that you should seriously consider hammering theory into your head while you still feel motivated to.
Trust me: once you can play by rote and solo at a reasonable level, you'll be reluctant to return to theory. I'm counting on the new guitar to motivate me to do the same thing as you.
Try any of the following: www.bsla-series.com, www.12bar.de/index.htm, www.cyberfret.com. They all have various things to offer depending on what you are trying to accomplish.
There are many guitar sites online and I'm sure you'll find something you like.
Play on!
I'd get the basics down first (reading tab notation at least, posture, holding the pick, etc.), and then get GuitarPro*, where you can download tabs and as it goes through, the MIDI sequence is played based on the tablature. It is also quite good for writing music.
*This is the most popular place for getting GP files, however there is a link to get GP
If you're just starting, most web/computer tools won't be of too much help for a while (IMHO). Instead, try to get a friend to show you some chords/tunes, as well as the basic layout of the guitar. If you are even moderately serious about learning, getting a good teacher will help a lot too. I'd also suggest hanging out in alt.guitar.beginner, it's a pretty nice newsgroup where lots of questions can be answered. Also, from what I've seen, the "guitar for dummies" book is actually quite good and will get you through the basics in a sane order.
:)
After you get acquainted with the instrument a bit, check out www.olga.net, a sizeable archive of guitar tablatures (assuming you don't mind learning to read tab -- it's easy, though it's not a substitute for real music notation in the long run).
One program I'd suggest (non-free, unfortunately) is Guitar Pro. It's a tablature editor that can play the tablature, and there are quite a few tunes available in its format--so you can see the tab and hear the tune played. Pretty nice if you use tabs.
HTH
Other than using computers, to learn about how to use them (ironic no?), reference purposes (which I could otherwise get at a library) and maybe language learning (its helping me learn Japanese) what other kind of applications have you found for adults for computer-based learning. Most focuses, IMO, on computer-based skill aquirement (Internet, Word, Excel) etc. So far, the only real success I've seen is teaching young kids math and reading.
Are we in need of a killer-app for computer based learning?
I guess a bunch of old text files from thousands of guitar players doesn't work out to be training. Still it helped me quite a lot in figuring out popular riffs and breaks.
I happen to think I'm not that great, but hey, I never played guitar to be good. I learned to play becuase I wanted to be able to play certain songs.
This site has some stuff I found really good including mp3s to play along with to get trickier rythyms or strumming techniques.
If you want to play in a band type setting, I suggest you find like-minded people with similar skills or lack thereof.
Needing a professional tutor or some crap seems a popular thing in this thread, which I don't quite understand. I played clarinet for 10 years (including 4 in university ensembles) before I started guitar and I don't understand what the point of lessons is. What I learned from both instruments is that practice is the most important. Not legnth, but frequency. I think I've progressed more on my second instrument faster because I'd just pick it up and do a few chord shapes for a few seconds.
Professional teachers are only a recent phenomenon and I don't see why they're being embraced with such enthusiasm by practioners of an instrument that has has become a popular symbol of rebellion and freedom.
How many of you people would argue that you need professional classes to use a computer? How many of you are mostly self-taught?
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
I'd get a conventional teacher, or just start listening to songs to try to get some of the notes right. Start with the real easy classics and then build from there. To help with that I'd use TabIT http://www.tabit.net/ to get the notes. Simply imput the .tab file which you can find here http://www.guitartabs.cc/ or http://www.mxtabs.net/ here. TabIT reads the tab and displays it while it plays it with MIDI. You can slow it down or do whatever you want with it. Only available for windows.
Exactly, don't use "one place" to try to learn this unless you're just trying to learn a few songs to impress. If you're really serious about learning the instrument, get your hands on anything and everything.
I've no experience with the computer programs per-se, but there are a ton of links to web sites that can help you along.
Guitar Noise is a great site that teaches you certain songs and why your doing what your doing within each song as you go. Check it out.
Slowhand Blues Guitar for a good intro into Blues playing.
Chordbook.com for an interactive chord generator. Very helpful.
Hope this helps and good luck!
"Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
And it's my advice that you learn theory first. Learn all the interaction between notes in a scale (a piano, or barbershop quartet is a good way to study this), then Learn yourself some guitar as a way to express other stuff you've learned. The guitar is not necessarily a best "first" instrument, however, it can be if you actually learn real notes and chords, and how they work together and in a group setting. It could be done on computer, but I've never seen a decent program or series of videos myself. Nothing like having an expert right there to teach you, and let's face it: The immense population of good guitarists who are starving will thank you for your $100 a month pittance to learn to play. I'm in California, so in other states, it can be done reliably for cheaper I'm sure. rhY www.esom.org www.esom.org/khanz www.esom.org/jockeyz www.esom.org/cuerdas
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
http://guitar.twobrotherssoftware.com/
http://www.powertabs.net/pta.php/ Simply the best online resource I have seen. My playing has improved immensely since finding this website and the program associated with it.
Always remember, that way you will never forget.
I fmay be somewhat qualified to answer, as I'm largely self-taught, and I have used a lot of online sources. If, as it sounds like, you're starting from the very beginning, it's true that you really need someone to show you the basics. Once you have that down, though, you can learn a lot by downloading the tabs to songs you like. I don't know what you're interested in, but I use these:
http://dsrmusic.com/
http://www.singularitymetaltab.net/
http://www.deathwarp.com/DeathWarp/tabs/tabs.htm
Those are mostly for rock and metal, but you can find similar sites for whatever style you're into. As you'd expect, start with simpler songs and work your way up - you can learn a lot of technique this way, as well as forms and applications of the theory you'll also want to be studying. For some basic chord and scale patterns, check out:
http://www.guitar-dreams.com/
Another good site for a lot of exercises as well as some theory is:
http://ibreathemusic.com/
This is really one of the best guitar sites I've seen; I can't recommend it enough. Along with the above, it forms a very good reference for patterns and exercises, but you're still missing some structure. This is a major problem with online materials - there's so much of it it's hard to sort out. As such, I'd recommend using all of this as source material, but have a friend who plays give you some guidance as to what to practice, even if you don't take lessons per se. If that's totally impossible, buy a method book or two - the Troy Stetina ones are excellent for rock and metal, but they're available for all styles. That will give you some idea of the order in which to practice the various subjects.
Hope this helps,
Nathan
As a teenaged jazz guitar player for my high school years ago, I can say there is nothing harder for a learning guitar player than to site read some notation and play the lead guitar role on a song you first saw 20 minutes before in a national competition. Without solid music theory, no matter how much of a guitar hero you are, you are f*cked (in that situation). Without theory, you are just mimicking what you have heard before without really understanding it. You are a highly talented parrot with no conscious understanding of what you are saying.
Thats not to say you cannot be a great guitar player.
Most impressive musical feat I ever took part in was playing the queen mary jazz festival and Paul Schaffer sat in on piano (you know, david lettermans guy) and improved an entire 30 minute set with us. Since we knew he was the man, we played some highly complex shit with serious key and tempo changes and he took it like we were deaf dumb and blind. At a certain level, I'm not sure how important hardcore music theory is, because you can simply see and think what you are hearing and react to it. However I'm not sure how easy it is to reach that point without the basic understanding.
I've had a guitar for about a year and I've putzed around and really still don't know anything about it. But I finally convinced my wife that lessons are a good thing. My son is also starting lessons, both of us this week.
Yeah!
And I'm also getting a Digitech GNX3 as a shiny new toy.
-- Freedom means letting other people do things you don't like.
Since we knew he was the man, we played some highly complex shit with serious key and tempo changes and he took it like we were deaf dumb and blind.
Your description made me smile.
My best advice to anyone trying to learn to play a musical instrument is to make sure that you're about three years old. Start early, folks. When I get _really_ depressed, I think about the time I spent as a young child that would've been sooo much better spent learning some Calculus and violin.
That's just right. Nothing can replace a teacher who is there with you and able to correct posture and technique and give you a little experience playing with others. You can learn theory from the web well enough, and you can get a lot of great information on all aspects of the instrument, but you need a teacher to at least get you off on the right foot. It's true that many great guitarists are self taught, but that doesn't mean the rest of us can just pick up and figure it out all on our own.
You should visit Guitarnoise.com (See the post above if you really need a clickable link); it's a great community.
I'm self-taught at bass-clarinet, harpischord, piano, and violin. You CAN find resources. For my "violin lessons", I found everything to be in .RM format. If you're a Win-Monkey like myself and DESPISE Real Media ANYTHING -- use the "Real Alternative" --
http://ftp.isu.edu.tw/pub/Windows/Edskes/r/realalt 129.exe
Another BIG factor is knowing HOW to search for what you're looking for. Google for things like, "beginner" "guitar" "lessons" "online".
For absolute beginner lessons, you'll find MANY free resources -- I don't know jack about guitar, but with violin, I needed to know how to properly hold the thing.
Happy searching, and someday I may download one of your songs after you become famous! (or good)
--Xan
"Congratulations, Boots. Your robot has become self-aware. You're a daddy now." -- Dr. Rho Bowman
I don't know many online resources, so I can comment on another approach.
My advice is to enroll in a classical guitar night class at a city college. You will learn good fundamentals for whatever style music you like to play, plus all the classical guitar songs are impressive to play--and you will pick up note reading in the process. I learned around 10 or so warm up excercises that you can use for the rest of your life to speed up finger strength and agility.
Most guitar teachers can also point you to hourly rate tutors. Just show up the first day and talk to the teacher after class and ask for a referral if you don't want the class doesn't fit your schedule.
Nice links. BTW.
"links," (comma).
Exactly. Original Poster
Serious, hit Harmony Central and you'll find more than you could ever imagine on guitar stuff, complete with reviews by any number of musicians.
For myself, I learnt off the Russ Shipton books, downloaded chords off the web (a href=http://www.tab-robot.com>Tab Robot is a good place to start these days), and put in lots of practise.
After 8 years of playing, I went to a teacher to refine some technique. Man, that's well worth doing, and I wish I'd done it earlier. But don't go until you *can* actually play stuff - learning basic chords is muscle memory, and you can do that just as well yourself without spending big money on a teacher. Practise, is all.
As for getting a guitar, for god's sake learn on a small classical guitar first, and don't buy any of those "learn rock guitar" books - I've not seen a good one. They might have you playing the "Smoke On The Water" riff quickly, but ultimately it's like using "Chopsticks" to teach piano playing. What you'll learn is a few basic tricks instead of proper technique, and it's very easy to fake stuff on an electric.
And don't get a cheapy Fender Squier - spring for a proper one. I got a Squier and whilst it sounds OK, the hardware is poor quality so it tends not to stay in tune properly. Spring for a proper Strat - it's not much more expensive. And if you've started with a cheap little classical, you'll then be in a position to hit the shops and actually play them yourself and make a decent choice, instead of watching like a sucker while the assistant prepares to fleece you.
Oh yes, another rule - beware of trusting a guitar shop salesman.
Grab.
Don't listen to the other posters saying you need to get a teacher. You need to spend the first couple of months getting the dexterity and finger strength down before you can really start to learn stuff. Practice switching from the open position of G to D 1000 times. Then repeat for E-C. Once you can move between chords, learn some easy songs like "Every rose has its thorn" by Poison. (Chicks dig it. Ok maybe 30 year old chicks.) Buy some guitar magazines. $8 buys you 5 songs and some lessons. Try Powertabs for some songs to learn. I only took 2 lessons and the teacher wanted me to learn Bob Dylan. I was like "that aint Metallica" and just learned on my own.
Don't listen to him!!!!
OK. He does have a point. A real teacher > a computer teacher. But Ferary > Yugo. But if you are on a Yugo budget, you drive what you can afford.
Same deal here. A live person is best. But for the cost of two lessons, you can get software. Software is better if your schedule is hectic, as you can just work it in.
But, I must admit it: I got piano tutor software, and I do not use it as much as I thought I would. If I was paying some 80-year-old lady $20 and hour, I would practice more. So paying for a real live person also helps with dicipline.
Another approach is to use both. Perhaps you can use software, and once a month show your stuff to a live teacher, who can evaluate your technique and give you pointers.
In the end, the choice is yours.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
There are lots of good pointers to resources already, so I'll just add one bit of advice. I'm self-taught and so are a number of other good musicians I know. However, one thing I've noticed is that there are a lot of musicians out there who are really awfull and don't know it. My advice if you teach yourself is to either take a couple of lessons once in a while or else find some good guitarists who will honestly point out areas you need to improve in. Also, play with other musicians every chance you get.
I am looking for guitar-based computer training. Please let me know if you find any.
What you need is some ear training... and learning the language of music. I can't think of any reasons to assevere is better to learn that "outside". The posture and technics depends on the musician, it's like sex, whats good for me doesn't need to be good for ya. To learn music, you don't need software, find a web page you like, and check the disposition of the strings and tones. What is important is for you to train your ear, that way you'll be able to play anything: try ear master pro http://www.earmaster.com/ good luck! ps: sorry bout the misspelling or grammar mistakes, im not native english speaker jan
Yet another voice to add to the chorus. You will need a teacher. But hold on before putting me to the bottom of the pile. You do not need to find someone who gets paid - any friend will do just fine.
I think elsewhere in the thread someone posted that getting a friend to help is a good idea. I started at age 20 in college (I am now 37) when my roommate showed my a few chords. He gave me a guitar book that I have since found at a few libraries and I used that plus his occasional advice to progress to the beginner stage.
Once you have a G, C, D, E, A and possibly F open chords you can play a whole lot of songs and that will do you for a while, possibly a few years. If you like metal, punk, alternative or just any kind of fast playing you will want to also learn Barre chords early on. This allows you to play the Major and Minor chords all the way up the guitar neck without changing the shape of your fingers - they just slide up the next. I did and could have been in a band within about 3 months of picking up the instrument. All the British punk bands used barre chords, mostly a E, D, A pounded out really fast.
So that will get you started. But then, like me, you will eventually get bored with that. Music theory will then become necessary to progress to any kind of "next" level. And if you are like most people, music theory just isn't palatable from behind a computer screen. Major and Minor chords are great, but adding the diminished, sevenths, 9ths etc. adds a totally new dimension to your playing. I would be a much better player if I could have afforded a teacher from the beginning but since I could not the road I took has been very rewarding.
Find a friend who can teach you the basics.
This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
For some reason I read the headline as "Computer-Based Guitar Tuning", and thought that this article must be about some kind of a homebrew gadget that tunes your guitar for you with little motors attached to the tuning pegs, and controlled via USB or WiFi. Imagine a Beowulf cluster...
where there's fish, there's cats
If you're interested in learning some of the basics and some misc. tips & tricks I would recommend you should check out http://www.wholenote.com/ & http://www.activeguitar.com/. While these sites offer plenty of lessons and tutorials, they still can't take the place of lessons with an actual instructor.
There is nobody available. I've actually checked, and nobody gives lessons. Sure, there are some people that play that can pass along pointers, but teaching is an art that requires proficiency and patience beyond just the skill to play (hell, my old man is/was guitarist in a band, and he has no patience for teaching).
Online lessons would serve me just as well. For one thing, I could do them on my own time. For another, I can reference back and repeat as needed. They have to be good online lessons, but I'm sure some exist.
Actually, my guitar plugs in nicely to the LiveDrive on my SBLive! Having some software to retune it would be very useful - plug a string (with the guitar plugged into PC) and have it play the intended note at the same time. Once you get them to match, you're tuned.
Of course, if you have one string in tune you could just tune them all the old fashioned way - which is similar. But software would be helpful in tuning the main string to a particular note if the instrument is way off for some reason.
Yes software can be helpful. As you say, getting with a teacher every month or so and learning on your own in the meantime is a good option when you're on a budget. I'd recommend that if you can't afford weekly lessons. A computer just can't point something out and say, "That habit will lead to trouble later." A teacher can. Unlike playing music, you don't have to unlearn a Yugo when you get a Ferrari. Meeting with a teacher every now and then will be very valuable.
Two words: Guitar Pro
This program is midi based and can read/play/display guitar tab. This way you can hear if a tab is accurate or not. It can scroll down automatically(in time with the song) so if you are playing a song you do not know off by heart you can play it with out having to scroll down.
Goto www.mysongbook.com for songs, If you have eMule you can download the entire archieve.
For guitar playing:
1) Technique is VERY VERY important. Make sure you get it down right at first, It will feel weird but you're muscles just have to learn. Get a good guitar teacher. Otherwise later on down the track you will have to relearn and get rid of bad habits which cuts into time and it feels like you are starting from square 1 again. The slightest technique change feels very differant.
2) Play a riff slowly as much as you play it full speed, You will become a much faster and fluent player this way. Guitar Pro allows you to select 0.25%, 0.50% and 0.75% speeds(and faster).
3) Theory. It's not sooo important but it will really help you when you want to write your own stuff. For some people getting your head around the concepts of how scales, intervals, modes and chords relate can me difficult. If you have a good guitar teacher, he/she will go through and disect songs(you like) so you can learn from them to compliment your own playing style. eMule has many books you can download.
I really suggest getting person-to-person lessons from someone that can play properly(good technique themselves) and has a strong knowledge of theory.
Food for thought: I once had a blues guitar teacher with a limited knowledge of theory and has been playing for 30+ years. He did not teach me proper technique, It made me feel very unmotivated when I wasn't getting any better and just learning stuff I could learn at home. $50 an hour. Good bloke though. I found him through the local guitar store.
I was then offered lessons by a young guy(18) for $15 an hour, I said it was to little and offered him $30. First lesson: "Your technique is wrong" he showed me and it felt like I was starting from square one again I got a hell of a lot faster and made much fewer mistakes though(eventualy). He taught me alot of theory and we'd disect songs. Good bloke and liked the music I liked(so thats a plus). He'd only been playing 3 years, extremely gifted.. I found him through a friend.
If you want any more guidance send me an email: morganrobertson at gmail.com
But do you know what really beats a tutor or software? Practice.
That's it. Just practice.
Go to the library and pick up a guitar fundamentals book. Make copies of the exercises.
Then practice until your fingers bleed.
Then, just after that, practice some more.
The only thing more important than practicing when learning to play an instrument is the motivation to continue doing it.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
I write a blog about good guitar exercises. Take a look. http://www.PracticingGuitar.com
Intellectuals! Liberals! Peacemongers! IDIOTS!!!