TiVo to Go Released

SimCityHippy wrote to us with the news that TiVo has TiVo To Go. Right now, the To Go feature is supported only on Windows XP & Win2k; no word on whether the feature will be rolled out to OS X or WinME. It's also interesting to note that while they recommend Windows MP, VLC gets a nod as well.

Comments

What are you doing....

[wapanesechick]

Sir, do you have that project I asked for? Not quite.... What are you doing...... Nothing... Are you watching TV? This is what's going to happen in office everywhere!

Re:What are you doing....

[geminidomino]

How many bosses call their underlings "sir?"

Re:What are you doing....

[Errtu76]

please name the company where your superiors address you as 'Sir', because i'd love to work there

Re:What are you doing....

[Anonymous Coward]

I like your sig. May I interest you in a map?

Re:What are you doing....

[Anonymous Coward]

And people wonder why they lose their jobs.

Re:What are you doing....

[Palverone]

Hey stupid is more like it... Anything else and the fear of being sacked overwhelmes me :(

What other products have this capability?

[duplo1]

I've been staring at my Scientific Atlantic DVR with the usb and firewire ports for a while just willing them to go live so I can transfer my shows.

Are there any products besides the Tivo that support transfering video over the network or perhaps via firewire/usb2?

Re:What other products have this capability?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been doing this for a coupel months now with my ReplayTV.

Re:What other products have this capability?

[grung0r]

ReplayTV supports transfers over the network via DVarchive. The old 5000 ReplayTV series can share over the network nativly.

Re:What other products have this capability?

[burbs]

Haven't you wondered why TiVo is getting so much press about this when ReplayTV already had these features?

Re:What other products have this capability?

[AKnightCowboy]

Haven't you wondered why TiVo is getting so much press about this when ReplayTV already had these features?

Not at all. Especially on Slashdot, people seem to have blinders on that TiVo == DVR. They even use TiVo as a verb. I really don't understand it either since there are other alternatives to TiVo like ReplayTV or even free ones like MythTV. Why do people so vehemently defend TiVo even when they do stupid things like announce wanting to put commercials on while you fast forward and openly oppose copying the shows off your system in order to archive them? BTW, "Hacks" don't count, that functionality should be built into the system to let you copy the digital movie format off the hard drive and transfer it to your PC with little trouble.

Re:What other products have this capability?

[jedidiah]

That would be the difference between News & History.

Re:What other products have this capability?

[vision33r]

Tivo is better for consumers, more dumbed down than ReplayTV. ReplayTV had all the features that Tivo recently implemented years ago.. Unfortunately Tivo is better at marketing since Sonicblue went under last year. ReplayTV didn't sold out its subscribers like Tivo did by selling pop-up space and commericials showing during commericial skips.

Re:What other products have this capability?

[jargoone]

Why do people so vehemently defend TiVo even when they do stupid things like announce wanting to put commercials on while you fast forward

This was posted on slashdot before, and the general concensus from the comments were that people didn't care.

openly oppose copying the shows off your system in order to archive them?

It might be that TiVo is trying to avoid getting dumped and bought up due to legal troubles. Do you forget what happened shortly after Replay offered this functionality? Do they offer it on the new units? Does MythTV have a sizable portion of the PVR market? The answers to those questions should clue you in a little.

You're right, there are alternatives. Some of us have even tried them, and deemed them to be too much of a pain, too big, too loud, too inadequate in the UI department, etc. A lot of people think that TiVo is the best. But you have a choice. Ignore the stories if you don't like hearing about it.

Re:What other products have this capability?

[Anonymous Coward]

However, all of the lawsuits caused by having those features pretty much put them out of business.
TiVo on the other hand waited until they had a FCC approved DRM technology ("TiVoGuard") before adding show transferring features so they wouldn't end up in the same situation.

Re:What other products have this capability?

[milkman_matt]

Especially on Slashdot, people seem to have blinders on that TiVo == DVR. They even use TiVo as a verb. I really don't understand it either since there are other alternatives to TiVo like ReplayTV or even free ones like MythTV. Why do people so vehemently defend TiVo

First off, I'll preface this with the fact that I went from cable, to DirecTV, to DirecTiVo, and back to cable, then finally to a cable supplied DVR. What i've found is that the TiVo DVRs have such a major following because they ARE -that much- better. My cable DVR is no more special than a f'ing VCR. You can record a particular show, or record it every time it shows on that channel. However it's not as simple as with TiVo where you say "season pass" then type in the first couple letters to find it, then you're done. On this DVR you actually need to go find a point where that show is playing on the channel you want it on, then hit record, then start assigning recordings. That is my most major gripe.

Secondly, the menuing system BLOWS on my new DVR. It's nowhere near as friendly as the TiVo's. I can't cite anything at the moment, as I gave my TiVo away since I couldn't get DirecTV anymore, but I do know that I'm nowhere near as comfortable with this menuing system as I was with the TiVo.

I also like how TiVo will record recommendations for you. I've found some really cool shows that way. I do miss that damned machine.. :~( I Think I'll need to just get a cable one.

BTW, "Hacks" don't count, that functionality should be built into the system to let you copy the digital movie format off the hard drive and transfer it to your PC with little trouble.

This is the cool part though, TiVo ENCOURAGES hacking. They've got a VERY strong community following and it seems like they actually encourage all of the little hacks and projects people work on. I've heard nothing but praise for the TiVo hacking community. I haven't had a chance to play with it myself, but again, my TiVo is gone. :(

TiVo is like the google of TV appliances, it's just really cool, really friendly, and doesn't offend anybody :) (well, except for the people who are going to reply saying that it offends them just to be argumentative ;P )

Re:What other products have this capability?

[porges]

Tivo is better for consumers, more dumbed down than ReplayTV.

You've got an amazing amount of attitude packed into that one sentence. When you say scornfully it's better for "consumers"...well, who else is there to care about besides people who buy the machine? If you replace "consumers" with "users", which is the same set of people, it doesn't sound nearly so superior. And what, exactly, do you mean by "dumbed down"? It sounds overall like you're saying that ReplayTV is harder to use, and that's good.

Re:What other products have this capability?

[JVert]

I always hear about Tivo encouraging hacking. But never seen any proof? Are the Series 2 Tivo's not harder to hack then Series 1? Is this a trend that says "hacker friendly"?

Re:What other products have this capability?

[Moofie]

Is ReplayTV still in business? I thought they went under...

Re:What other products have this capability?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do people so vehemently defend TiVo even when they do stupid things like announce wanting to put commercials on while you fast forward and openly oppose copying the shows off your system in order to archive them? BTW, "Hacks" don't count, that functionality should be built into the system to let you copy the digital movie format off the hard drive and transfer it to your PC with little trouble.

Actually, ReplayTV only used to allow you to transfer recordings to other ReplayTVs. It was a "hack" in the form of DVArchive that enabled saving to a computer's hard drive. To my knowledge, TiVo is the first and only commercial standalone PVR that actively supports transfering shows to the PC.

Re:What other products have this capability?

[muffdivr]

I have been using DVArchive with my ReplayTV for the past year with good results :-)

Obligatory product bashing

[Monoman]

Now we get to hear from all the folks that say Tivo sucks and how Myth and ??? is better. If you haven't actually used a Tivo for a week then you probably can't say.

The same goes for me I guess becuase I haven't spent any time with Myth of whatever else is out there. I just know that my Tivo works and it is simple enough for my parents to use it.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[Umrick]

Having both a Tivo Series 2 and a Myth TV box...

Out of the box, Tivo is much nicer. After pulling hair and much fighting, MythTV is a heck of a lot nicer. There was a lot of pain to get there though, definately not for the faint of heart.

The main thing I learned in the process is don't overcomplicate. A PVR-250 is a fine card to use, the PVR-350 is just more features to pull out hair over.

TV Listings are a pain though. I have Direcway satellite as nothing else is available. The satellite receiver does some strange proxying. Because of that, my MythTV TV listings must be fetched via a ssh tunnel to a tinyproxy box at the office, otherwise it just fails.

If you have time, and patience, the MythTV solution is much more satisfying, otherwise Tivo is probably a better bet.

In our house, both are used. When Tivo finally dies though, it'll be replaced by MythTV.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[enrico_suave]

tivo doesn't suck (and yes I have/use one).

But they are getting a little to cozy with the content providers and advertisers for my taste, hence why I also use a homebrew PVR so that the "man" can't tell me how long I can keep six feet under "taped" or whether or not I can backup Sopranos to DVD.

=P

with that said, I'm eager to see how well TivoToGo works as it does address one of my major annoyances with TiVo STB (vs homebrew PVR/Myth boxen) -- content portability.

e.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[iamacat]

Yes, but how do you justify paying $13/month for just a program guide which is free on tv.yahoo.com or your cable provider's site? Or keeping a landline for TiVo to use when you probably already have broadband and a cell phone? Also don't you sometimes want to send a VCD of your favourite episode to a friend?

If MythTV is too complicated to setup, just get the cheapest Windows PC and use whatever PVR program comes with the TV tuner. Might want to throw in a wireless keyboard+trackpad.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[Anonymous Coward]

AC - only b/c i already have moderated in this thread. TiVo doesn't require a landline. You can get a wired or wireless network adapter and use your broadband connection.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[Monoman]

I don't pay $13/month. I got the lifetime subscription early on. With the Tivo service, i can setup "season passes" for my shows.

Season passes are not the same as setting a date/time and duration to record. I believe season passes are keyed to the program name and the channel. Season passes have options for things like

* Record first showings only, repeats, etc
* Quality of recording
* Number of showings to retain.

You don't need to maintain a phone line either. If you have broadband then you can get the updates over that connection if you install a network adapter in the USB port.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[wizbit]

Same situation here - Series 2 TiVo and a nice orphaned Windows PC-turned-MythTV box give me some experience with both.

I find myself hardly using the TiVo these days. I've moved all the "season pass" show schedules over to the Myth box. Originally got going with Myth because it would let me play my assortment of DivX movie files and let me record/watch tv simultaneously with a second tuner card, and the level of control linux/myth give me is keeping me on it.

One oddity - the best way to share video in multiple rooms with myth seems to be to NFS a huge volume with your recorded video. I remember Tivo's multi-room viewing gave you a combined list of programs and, when requesting one from another Tivo unit, simply downloaded the program to the one requesting the video and played it when ready. It'd be nice if I had each frontend contribute storage to the other frontends without having to build a huge storage machine and worry about it frying one night and losing all my saved programs.

Anyway.

I agree that the 350 is more needless hair-pulling for most, but if you're setting up separate backend/frontend boxen, a 350 is a nice one-card solution for watching TV on a cheap-o linux machine. Then again, so is a motherboard with on-board TV-out and ethernet.

My main concern right now (and one of the reasons I've not dumped another grand into building a nicer backend machine and some frontends around the house) is Myth is currently only useful for analog cable. The HDTV cards out there can only receive OTA signals (unencrypted) and the future of cable TV seems to be cable company-provided receivers w/ PVR capability that aren't easily controlled from a PC. Sure, there's some work being done for the firewire ports on some of the newer receivers, and you can usually get an IRblaster going or something to control the unit, but, bye-bye multiple recordings to my backend, and so on.

Myth could use some polish (I still like the satisfying little beeps and blurps when I use the Tivo) but I'm surprised at how much it does already. KnoppMyth is making strides to lower the learning curve for new setups. DVD burning still takes some hard work, but it's getting easier, and MythDVD has built-in background ripping/transcoding. Cool add-ons like MythPhone and mfe are fun to play with and could become more useful soon. And the Hauppauge cards are just wonderful - kudos and much thanks to Chris Kennedy and the IvyTV community for supporting this hardware so diligently. I'll be a Myth user for a long time if I can get an acceptable HD solution working with it.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[ratsnapple tea]

What do you use for the remote control with MythTV? Is it as nice and elegant as TiVo's remote?

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[Octagon Most]

"Yes, but how do you justify paying $13/month for just a program guide which is free on tv.yahoo.com or your cable provider's site?"

I justify the TiVo monthly service expense for the convenience. It's fairly easy to understand if you start from the premise that you and I place different values on nearly everything - Starbucks coffee, restaurant meals, cars, mortgages, computers, etc. But mostly for me it's about valuing time and convenience. Although I am technically capable of doing so, I have no desire to assemble, configure, and maintain a homebrew PVR system. My wife and seven year old son can operate the TiVo. That has value to me as well. And a free programming guide from Yahoo, or printed weekly in the newspaper, does not compare to the simplicity of a few clicks to keep the TiVo full of fresh episodes of the Magic Treehouse and SpongeBob.

"Or keeping a landline for TiVo to use when you probably already have broadband and a cell phone?"

I plugged a USB 802.11b adapter into the TiVo and it utilizes my wireless network. That enables TiVo to stream photos and music from iPhoto and iTunes which the aforementioned wife enjoys. Her happiness = my happiness. And not messing up the most basic home entertainment needs trumps my geek impulses.

"If MythTV is too complicated to setup, just get the cheapest Windows PC and use whatever PVR program comes with the TV tuner. Might want to throw in a wireless keyboard+trackpad."

What's exciting to you is frightening to me. I'd rather pay the $13 a month. But I am glad that options exist so we can all benefit.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[SilentChris]

Tivo doesn't suck. Tivo with DirecTV... that sucks. Don't get me wrong: the high-defintion box works well.

But I absolutely HATE the fact that they don't enable the USB ports (you can enable them, but the next time they update their software they're disabled again). And absolutely no Home Media option.

Why? Because the content providers are too afraid that the pristine MPEG I'm getting direct from satellite is "too" clean, and thus sharing should be made as difficult as humanly possible (even just copying to a laptop -- exactly what Tivo is now allowing). Which was exactly the reason I got DirecTV Tivo in the first place: a nice clean picture.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[enrico_suave]

"Yes, but how do you justify paying $13/month for just a program guide which is free on tv.yahoo.com or your cable provider's site? Or keeping a landline for TiVo to use when you probably already have broadband and a cell phone? Also don't you sometimes want to send a VCD of your favourite episode to a friend?"

well I think the monthly charge is a little high, but the landline thing you mention is bunk.

You can setup/use your TiVo series 2 with a usb broadband adapter to download listings/updates/etc... There's a few small hoops that are well documented to do so on the tivo site/knowledgebase.

FWIW knoppmyth makes the the installation and most of the configuration of linux/myth much easier (for some systems/tuner cards -- pvr250 is a good bet)

If you want to go the windows route on a budget I recommend Hauppauge WinTV PVR150/250 with GBPVR (free as in beer) software. You'll still probably want a modest yet not too crusty machine (say 1ghz or higher)...

e.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[Phillup]

Yes, but how do you justify paying $13/month for just a program guide which is free on tv.yahoo.com or your cable provider's site?

Easy.

I can work as many hours as I want, and my billing rate is $40/hr.

If I have to spend more than ~20 minutes* babysitting the box in one month... then I've "spent" the $13 dollars.

* I'll leave the exact calculation for the truly pedantic... this post is costing me money. ;-)

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[blakestah]

Yes, but how do you justify paying $13/month for just a program guide which is free on tv.yahoo.com or your cable provider's site?

The program guide in TiVO allows a direct connection between the search and record features.

Now, you may like combing through tv.yahoo.com and programming the PVR manually, and you can choose to spend your time doing that. But for $13/mo TiVO will let the PVR directly connect to tv listings, and searches of them.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[prockcore]

Yes, but how do you justify paying $13/month for just a program guide which is free on tv.yahoo.com or your cable provider's site? Or keeping a landline for TiVo to use when you probably already have broadband and a cell phone?

I'm also paying $13/month for product updates. But tv.yahoo.com doesn't provide the program guide for free.. they pay for it with ads. It's not like they provide an XML feed of tv listings for you to use.

I also don't keep a landline for TiVo. TiVo gets updates over my wireless network.

As far as VCD's go.. TiVo2go will now provide me with an mpeg2 of my shows. Converting that into mpeg1 and making it a VCD is trivial now.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[topham]

As someone who gets his tv listings, for his Tivo for free I'd like to chime in.

I'd pay the monthly fee to get the listings. Every few weeks I have minor hassles to deal with because of my method of getting the tvlistings, I'd gladly get rid of the problem by paying for the listings if I could. (I'm in Canada, tivo service isn't offered)

The listings are provided, for free, by a company which is being overly generous and will someday change it's tune. The emulation software has occasional issues which make me think the tivo will stop working fully at some point.

I would be more than happy to pay tivo for listings. (Actually, I already have, I bought the lifetime subscription)

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[jerw134]

The USB ports are active (but useless) on the latest version of the DirecTV DVR software. The Home Media software is also on there, but hidden. Everything is in place for HMO to be activated on DirecTV DVRs. Rumors are that it won't be too much longer.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[Moofie]

I had trouble justifying it as well. However, I'm being won over by the really, really good UI and the TivoToGo feature.

Maybe MythTV will be polished enough to be my next DVR, but for now, TiVo is well worth the price.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[CurlyG]

Many TV tuner cards such as my Winfast TV 2000 come with perfectly usable IR remotes. Naturally, under Linux (with lirc) you just assign the buttons to whatever functions you want.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[ratsnapple tea]

Cool... so could you take the remote from an old TiVo and program MythTV to recognize what all the buttons do?

(I know, I know, I should "just fucking Google it.")

My other question is this. How come--apparently, based on what I've read here--MythTV takes "pulling hair and much fighting" in order to set up? I would imagine there's some sort of default set of preferences, with an easy way to pick your brand of tuner and whatever else might differ from the base installation. What exactly are the problems I'd run into trying to configure a box of my own? (Keep in mind I'm a Mac user.) :-)

Thanks in advance, if you can sate my curiosity.

Re:Obligatory product bashing

[VultureMN]

Agreed. I also like my TiVo (as opposed to a MythTV box) because it's one less freakin' PC case to have sucking up space in my apartment. The TiVo just lives on top of the TV, with the cable box sitting on top of it. No noise, no mess, no fuss. Seeing as I don't have the time to futz with stuff all the time (having a real job and everything) I've become a fan of dedicated hardware.

as longas we're stcuck with stingy ISP

[Anonymous Coward]

upload bandwidth, we still can't watch our favorite programs remotely. Perhaps tivo2go will create enough demand for increased to change their tune.

Re:as longas we're stcuck with stingy ISP

[SCHecklerX]

Yeah, right. My ISP caps my outbound mail to a maximum of 1000 recipients a day (which sucks, since I manage community mail lists that have > 130 members each). All while promoting "video mail", which a single one eats up far more than a hundred messages to my lists.

Re:as longas we're stcuck with stingy ISP

[Jeff DeMaagd]

The problem with this is that the two most common broadband systems were never designed for upstream data. DSL was originally designed for TV on demand, which didn't need it much. Asking a single copper twisted pair to handle such a data demand both ways over long distances is a bit much. I don't think cable was originally designed for upstream transmissions in the first place.

Re:as longas we're stcuck with stingy ISP

[WonderSnatch]

I don't think we'd be asking the copper for anything! If anything changed, it would be how the total bandwidth is split among up and down stream. You see, there is a total amount of bandwidth that a particular piece of wire, channel, whatever can handle. That total amount is split using some sort of multiplexing scheme (frequency, time, or something more complicated). xDSL and cable are split with a heavy bias on down stream because that's what most people need/want. It's not like your 3Mbps cable line can support that full duplex and the cable provider arbitrarily set an up cap at 128kbps. If they set up and down equaly, you'd have something like 1.5Mbps (and change) up and down. Man this is off topic! Brett

Re:as longas we're stcuck with stingy ISP

[garcia]

Personally I was wondering if the shows would be DRMd at all so that I would be able to convert them to AVI and watch them on my portable media device.

Currently I use Tivo's "record to VCR" option and play the shows to my Archos in real-time so that I can carry them with me wherever I am. It's a bit of a hassle when you want to record multiple shows to VCR as you seemingly have to do them one at a time.

With Tivo2go I'd be able to back all the MPEGs up to AVI in one shot and watch them on my Archos.

I won't be able to play with this until I get home so I was hoping that someone had some knowledge of how it all worked.

Re:as longas we're stcuck with stingy ISP

[Ironsides]

The TV2Go transfers the Tivo uses MPEG2 compression. This has no DRM on it what so ever. And there are tons of tools out there for transcoding it to other formats. Have fun. http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/publ ic/tv2176.htm

Re:as longas we're stcuck with stingy ISP

[Anonymous Coward]

The video files are supposed to be encrypted with a key specific to your account and viewing requires a Media Access Key number and password. I guess you could try to capture the output of the MPEG2 codec after the TiVo Desktop decrypts the video. Or read back the DVD the Sonic software can write for you.

Re:as longas we're stcuck with stingy ISP

[NardofDoom]

Considering Comcast is rolling its own PVR, I highly doubt they'll boost upload speeds to reward TiVo owners.

Actually, I bet they'll do something similar to TiVo2Go and not throttle upload speeds for their system. Because they're bastards.

Re:as longas we're stcuck with stingy ISP

[Anonymous Coward]

DOCSIS has a collision prevention system, to prevent multiple devices from TX-ing at once. Since this is controled by the head, it can TX at will, but the CPE must get permission from the head to TX. This leads to a greater aggregate throughput, if the majority of data is moving from head to CPE, rather than the other way around.

The various DSLs, however, can operate more symetrically, since the DSLAM generally has only a single ANT (CPE) to communicate with in each collision domain.

Multi-point wireless (802.11 based) has the same problem as DOCSIS, only worse. Polling or CDMA wireless helps some, but media contention still leads to a heavy down over up bias.

Copying Details?

[Momoru]

That article is strangely lacking in details...since it requires a "special codec" and the newest media player i'm assuming there is some DRM that keeps me from sending files to other people?

Re:Copying Details?

[Wordsmith]

Hit a link. That "special codec" is mpeg-2, and this will work just fine if you have something like powerdvd installed.

Re:Copying Details?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not quite. It may be in MPEG2 format, but it's still got DRM to prevent you from sending your files to other people. When you install the software you have to enter a "playback password" which has to be entered whenever you play back the video stream.

Of course, this is pretty easy to circumvent, but still it's got DRM to track who you are and what you did with it.

Re:Copying Details?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't think its got DRM. If you read their page they say most MPEGII decoders should work but they might not decode the stream quite as well as the one they distribute. They do after all give the nod to VLC which AFAIK doesn't do any form of DRM.

Re:Copying Details?

[raitchison]

No doubt there is DRM, if there wasn't TiVo would get sued by the MPAA & TV networks in a heartbeat.

TiVo as a company itself doesn't care, in fact I'm sure they would prefer to open the box cause it would drive additional sales up but they saw what happened to ReplayTV when they offered these kinds of featues. They literally got sued out of business (without even going to trial IIRC).

As a TiVo subscriber I'm definitely willing to have them hold back a bit on features if it enables them to stay in business and continue to provide me their service. Most of the missing stuff could be easily done with hacks if I were so inclined anyways.

Re:Copying Details?

[Anonymous Coward]

The TiVo Desktop software or WMP10 probably deals with the DRM, decrypting the video files using your media key and password, and then passing the MPEG data to whatever codec you have installed.

Re:Copying Details?

[Anonymous Coward]

So the thought is that the MPEG2 audio/video are encapsulated in some MS format (DRM'd)? ie

Tivo-HDD -> Tivo software encrypts in MS DRM format -> send over network -> Decrypt using MS -> MPEG2 audio/video -> software codec decodes.

Does anyone know whether the decrypted audio/video stream is Transport_Stream/Program_Stream or PES?

Is this another reason why TivoToGo is not available yet on apple platform?

Re:Copying Details?

[node 3]

No doubt there is DRM, if there wasn't TiVo would get sued by the MPAA & TV networks in a heartbeat.

Why? This is essentially iTunes for TV, right?

iTunes rips into AAC, MP3, WAV, AIFF, etc, non of which are ripped into DRM'd files. You can also copy iTunes tracks between computers manually, via Rendezvous (which is streaming) and on CD.

This is *exactly* like a non-DRM'd TiVo, mpeg2, encoding, transferring and storage system. Of course, since it's video, the MPAA and various networks might try a battle, but I can't believe it would succeed if iTunes is legal.

Re:Copying Details?

[Fred Smythe]

The sense I get (based only on the couple articles I've read...can't wait to get home and see if my Tivo is one of the ones with the software upgrade yet) is that the Media Access Code is input into the Tivo Desktop software when you install it, and used to talk to the Tivo to make sure that it is in fact your machine that is downloading the program. Once it gets there, it's prolly pretty much straight MPEG-2 video, and you should be able to do what you like with it, although I will further suspect that the program will be watermarked with said MAC as well, and that the Tivo folks will be checking around online to see if people are posting these watermarked programs, and promptly revoking the TTG rights of people whose watermarks they find online.(Which means, if you burn something to CD for a buddy, great. Make sure he's not the kind of dick who will turn around and post it.) (Said watermarks will prolly be removable within the week, but at least Tivo made the effort.) Which, personally, works well for me. Tivo is allowing me to download and archive my own programs, without restricting how many times or on what devices I can use the program on, while putting mechanisms in place to discourage the easy posting of Tivo'd programs online, which should make the networks less likely to invoke the transfer protection Tivo pretty much had to include to get this to happen. I'm fine with that. There will still be ways to get shows online, and Tivo (well, legal Tivo, they can't do much about the hax0red units) won't be associated with them. That's good for Tivo, and good for Tivo's users who want them to continue to exist.

Re:Copying Details?

[raitchison]

I could be wrong (I'm not an iTunes user) but it is my understanding that when you "buy" a track or album from the iTunes Music Store that it comes down in some format that includes DRM. And that DRM restricts how often you can copy the file or burn it to CD.

I'm alomost certian it won't let you rip an iTMS purchased track directly to MP3, you would need to burn it to CD then rip to MP3, where the extra conversion would no doubt result in loss of quality.

Now I have no doubt that if you are dealing with non iTMS files, such as a WMA, AAC or whatever that you can easily rip 8 ways from Sunday, since there is no DRM on those files to begin with.

Re:Copying Details?

[Anonymous Coward]

So the thought is that the MPEG2 audio/video are encapsulated in some MS format (DRM'd)? ie

Tivo-HDD -> Tivo software encrypts in MS DRM format -> send over network -> Decrypt using MS -> MPEG2 audio/video -> software codec decodes.

Does anyone know whether the decrypted audio/video stream is Transport_Stream/Program_Stream or PES?

Is this another reason why TivoToGo is not available yet on the Apple platform?

confused

[Hyksos]

Am I the only one confused by the headline? Not knowing what "To Go" was, I associated it the same way is in "to go berserk" or whatever.

Re:confused

[Digz]

"To Go", for the non-English speakers, means prepared to be taken somewhere else. When you order food "to go" at a restauraunt, it's in boxes and ready to be taken home instead of eaten on the premises.

Re:confused

[dazzla_2000]

I'd say non-Americans. It's an American phrase and even though I've been living in the US for a few years it caught me off guard.

Re:confused

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I the only one confused by the headline? Not knowing what "To Go" was

Para llevar.

Concerning TiVO:

[Albinofrenchy]

I think i'm going to sue after I trip on my own saliva from seeing these things.

And with the winnings I will have my TiVo!

burning to dvd...

[mobiux]

I have a feeling that the burning to dvd option will be a big thing. Big as in a desired feature and as a big problem with the studios.

People pay big money for full seasons of thier favorite shows.

If anyone can just set their tivo, and spend 5 minutes a week burning it to dvd, the studios may take issues with that.

Re:burning to dvd...

[Wordsmith]

The fact that this is even a point of concern shows that we've been conditioned to accept new norms for IP.

Burning to DVD is a problem for the studios? Yes. They'll certainly fight for DRM or other limitations. But why should it be this way? For years and years everyone KNEW they had a right to videotape whatever they pleased for their own personal collections. Many fans of shows videotaped every episode, and kept a complete personal archive. In what way is it different to do this with a Tivo and DVD than it is with a videotape? Hell, leave out the middleman - there are plenty of DVD recorder decks now available for consumers, and they work more or less like VCRs.

But we've gotten to a point where we assume that just because the studios have found a business model, anything that rips into it is fair game for litigation. And the studios might win such litigation. And that's just sad.

Re:burning to dvd...

[teknikl]

the quality of a prepackaged commerical free dvd set far outstrips the effort needed to toss files from a tivo to your pc and burn the files.

though I'm starting to question my choice of the 802.11b adapter - that's not going to be able to pull the wagon.

Re:burning to dvd...

[_xeno_]

People will still buy the show DVDs, if only to get rid of the annoying logo splashed over the show. Not to mention the ads for other shows that TV stations just love to show in the corner during the show you're watching.

Along with commentary tracks, outtakes, and other extras, the DVDs will still have value beyond recordings taken from the TV. Not to mention the convience of jump points in the episode already being set and not needing to crop the show to size and remove ads.

All in all, there's still a compelling reason to get the DVD beyond just to watch the episodes if you're a fan. I bought all four seasons of Futurama primarily for the commentary tracks. People will still buy the episode DVDs.

Re:burning to dvd...

[GregChant]

For years and years everyone KNEW they had a right to videotape whatever they pleased for their own personal collections. Many fans of shows videotaped every episode, and kept a complete personal archive. In what way is it different to do this with a Tivo and DVD than it is with a videotape? Hell, leave out the middleman - there are plenty of DVD recorder decks now available for consumers, and they work more or less like VCRs.

The difference, according to the studios, is that you can make a one-for-one copy of the original. With VHS recording, you got a copy that was a poor replication of the original, and would inevitably degrade. With Tivo to DVD recording, this degradation does not occur.

Re:burning to dvd...

[mrterrysilver]

the average person doesn't have the time or know-how to tivo all their shows, transfer them to their pc, and burn them all to dvds. lets face it, that's not a trival thing to 90% of people out there. so basically it boils down to most people will throw down ~$30 to buy a dvd season thats already made for them... and it even comes with a pretty box with dvd menus, extras and all.

the bad part is even though the entertainment industry realizes this fact, they still want to cripple any capabilites which are perfectly legal under fair-use laws. right now geeks are the only people that will use these capabilities, loading up their portable devices with media and watching episodes of seinfeld and ali g on the subway.... but in the future that will likely change and unfortunately the mass population won't realize until then that the entertainment industry has stolen all of their fair use rights

Re:burning to dvd...

[lashi]

hmm... I wonder what you would say if people "pirated" your software and not pay any money for it.

Videotaping it was fine because you can't distribute it easily. It was more for personal use. Now you can distribute everything so easily. That's the difference.

Re:burning to dvd...

[Kjella]

But why should it be this way? For years and years everyone KNEW they had a right to videotape whatever they pleased for their own personal collections. Many fans of shows videotaped every episode, and kept a complete personal archive.

Knew as in "this is a legal right" or "we'll just do it anyway" as is the case with current P2P networks? I'm sure you're about to quote me Sony vs Universal (aka the Betamax case), but it found that time-shifting was a fair use. It did not explicitly deal with personal libraries, but one would be a temporary copy, the other permanent. That would be an additional factor weighing against fair use, and the Betamax case was a narrow (5-4) win to begin with. In addition, timeshifting was believed to increase the market by including people who could not see it at the original broadcast time, while it is clear that creating a personal library reduces the market for selling permanent copies.

Kjella

Re:burning to dvd...

[LordKronos]

The difference, according to the studios, is that you can make a one-for-one copy of the original. With VHS recording, you got a copy that was a poor replication of the original, and would inevitably degrade. With Tivo to DVD recording, this degradation does not occur.


No, the degredation doesn't occur in the TiVo->DVD stage. It occurs in the original->broadcast and the broadcast->TiVo stages. And it's a HUGE difference. I TiVo'd the Deep Space Nine series last year, and then I missed an episode and borrowed the DVD from a friend. HUGE difference in quality.

Re:burning to dvd...

[Sandor at the Zoo]

In what way is it different to do this with a Tivo and DVD than it is with a videotape?

It's different in that data on a DVD is bits, that are readily transferrable to half the internet-capable world with just a few clicks. Like it or not, that makes it different than VHS tapes, which took time, money and equipment to pirate content on a large scale.

I'm not trying to defend the studios (far from it!) but saying that digital content is the same as physical content is missing the mark.

Re:burning to dvd...

[jedidiah]

I would say: Don't try to squeeze blood from a turnip. Stop trying to make an ass out of yourself and antagonize future customers. Realize that pirated copies do not infact equate to sales that would have otherwise occured.

That's exactly what I say/think when EA whines about piracy of titles that have MY name on them.

Rampant piracy is not what distinguishes the 50K title from the 5M one, lameness is.

Anyone in the industry has sufficient information that this should be painfully obvious.

Re:burning to dvd...

[Robocoastie]

>>if anyone can just set their tivo, and spend 5 minutes a week burning it to dvd, the studios may take issues with that. Do you not understand how M$ technology works? What will happen next is in order to burn to dvd you'll be prompted for an additional fee and it will be DRM'd. After the success of that I don't doubt it if in order to watch a program even that you've recorded that in order to use the fastforeward button or commercial skip you'll have to pay a fee as well. And the STUPID thing is people WILL pay it cuz they've been so Pavlovian trained.

Re:burning to dvd...

[Jeff DeMaagd]

If you go with the original intent of the Betamax ruling, VCRs were allowed because they usually weren't bought with the entent to build libraries of copied material, but rather to allow time-shifting.

With the digital recording and Internet retransmission, those copies can be distributed much farther than what fair use intended. Computers also multitask, and download video much faster than real time too. VHS was almost always a 1:1 copy, and nothing else could be done while the deck was in operation.

Re:burning to dvd...

[Lucidus]

There is still a big quality difference, but I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the OTHER big difference between the packaged sets you buy and the recordings you make yourself from broadcast: those nasty little ads which run along the bottom of the screen. When it was just a little logo in the corner, that wasn't so bad, but now many of them are animated, often with sound, and can take up nearly a third of the screen! Who wants that crap on their archive copies?

They bug me enough that I will often turn off the program because of a particularly aggressive reminder about the next wrestling bout or mindless reality show. I can't imagine watching them over and over.

Re:burning to dvd...

[Wordsmith]

No, it was because the VCR allowed for substantial non-infringing uses ... just like tivo+tivo2go+dvd does. There's no infringement in keeping your own personal copy of data the content providers sent you over the air or over cable lines. You can even edit the content - remove the commercials or create your own version of the Phantom Edit. Just don't redistribute it - that's copyright infringement.

And this stands true whether we're talking about perfect digital reproductions (which we're usually not with over the air and cable recordings, but as HDTV and digital cable become more common, maybe we will be eventually). The principle isn't dictated by the quality of the recording, or how long you expect to keep it, or the ease of redistribution. Keeping your own personal copy is ALWAYS ok. Redistributing it without permission is ALWAYS infringement. That's the distinction made when the courts talk about fair use copies.

After all, even in the pre-everything-is-digital age, you could still create a remarkably good copy with a high-end video deck and good cables/components to reduce line noise. And you could sell them for a few bucks on the street. It wouldn't be legal, and infringers were often punished/sued, but the tech was there.

Re:burning to dvd...

[Anonymous Coward]

When D-TV takes over, then what?

It will be digital through and through and unless there is a reception problem on your end, the MPEG2 that your HD-TiVo records will be the same one that the station transmitted...

Ouch.

Re:burning to dvd...

[Rude Turnip]

"I would say: Don't try to squeeze blood from a turnip."

Because it hurts like a bitch!

Re:burning to dvd...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll gladly pay $30 for the convenience, yes, but how many people would pay $110 or so? That's the amount that Paramount wants for Star Trek. Fuckers.

Re:burning to dvd...

[wolrahnaes]

"while it is clear that creating a personal library reduces the market for selling permanent copies."
Of course, if Sony hadn't won, and VCRs had ended up illegal, what would we use to play our permanent copies?

Re:burning to dvd...

[Anonymous Coward]

I know it isn't popular around here to defend Microsoft, but:
1) Burning an over-the-air broadcast to DVD using Windows Media Center 2005 is trivially easy, and is built right into the product. MS is NOT discouraging or inhibiting this.
2) It is trivially easy to back up DVDs with a Media Center PC. (I use the excellent, free DVD Shrink, and the excellent, worth-paying-for Nero.) For your own personal use, of course.
3) It is trivially easy to burn an audio CD that completely removes the DRM used by Napster, MSN Music and other "M$" DRM-protected files. And, yes, this, too, is built right into Windows Media Player. Personally, I really like the capabilities and reliability of Windows Media Center 2005, and I think it is much easier to use (and configure) than MythTV, MediaPortal, etc. But I digress....

Re:burning to dvd...

[sevinkey]

I don't believe recording for purposes of archival into a personal library is covered by the current fair-use laws. Just liking taping your rentals from Blockbuster, the laws themselves are not changing, and if you're already using DVD, your reality isn't changing either (DVD and DRM both employ digital encryption). It will be just as easy to tape a show to your VCR from your new Internet device, and it won't be any more difficult as it is now.

It just won't be any easier than now to make analog copies either.

Re:burning to dvd...

[infinite9]

Distribution and/or use of such tools to transfer copyrighted works outside of your home may constitute an infringement of the rights of copyright holders and/or a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and could result in legal action. TiVo reserves the right to terminate the TiVo service accounts of users who transfer or distribute content in violation of the TiVo Service Agreement.

Mark my words. This feature will cook for a while, say three to six months, then huge numbers of people will get their tivo service switched off one day. How? I bet the recordings are watermarked when they transfer. So anything uploaded to a p2p network can be traced back to the original person. And I bet this is the price paid by tivo to allow this service.

Re:burning to dvd...

[greed]

Of course, if Sony hadn't won, and VCRs had ended up illegal, what would we use to play our permanent copies?

Back in the day, you could get playback-only machines, at least from Panasonic.

I worked at a video rental store, and we had a fleet of those for rent. (This was in the late 80s, when there were still plenty of people who didn't have a VCR yet.)

We also had some proper recorders for rent, for people who wanted to do more than just rent a few movies for the weekend. They usually only got rented out when we ran out of the playback-only machines.

So, had home recording been made illegal, you would still be able to watch commercially-produced videos.

Re:burning to dvd...

[Anonymous Coward]

It did not explicitly deal with personal libraries, but one would be a temporary copy, the other permanent.

My VHS tape collection isn't permanent in the same way that perpetually extending copyright doesn't unconstitutionally violate the "for limited times" clause.

In other words, I'll stop building a library of television content when the first year of Mickey Mouse cartoons enter the public domain. I'll play fair with copyright when they do.

In practice though, I retire portions of my tape library when I buy the DVD. I've replaced a self-burned DVD of One Crazy Summer with the commercial DVD. I'll do the same for Odyssey 5 if it gets released, and Nowhere Man, the War of the Worlds TV series, and the Star Trek animated series.

However, the issue where music has been replaced on the DVD with other music because the rights for publication on media were not secured by the studio, such as the replacement of Ray Charles' version of Georgia from the end of Quantum Leap episode "M.I.A." with a different instrumental song and other such changes, are proving to be an exception to that practice.

I've had this forever

[Bruha]

If you know anything about Linux and drivers you can enable the features on your DirectTvio.

Sorry I always forget the regular SA Tivo's have this enabled but DirectTV wont turn these features on for people.
tivocommunity.com has plenty of links in the forums to enable features that are locked on DirectTivo's but they're not for the faint of heart.

Re:I've had this forever

[AKnightCowboy]

Sorry I always forget the regular SA Tivo's have this enabled but DirectTV wont turn these features on for people. tivocommunity.com has plenty of links in the forums to enable features that are locked on DirectTivo's but they're not for the faint of heart.

So you can technically do things with the TiVo that other products and open source software can do, it's just incredibly difficult. That's a glowing endorsement of TiVo. ;-)

Re:I've had this forever

[Anonymous Coward]

tivocommunity.com doesn't allow even discussion of unlocking features and won't allow links to other forums that do.

Re:I've had this forever

[phildog]

>So you can technically do things with the TiVo that other products and open source software can do, it's just incredibly difficult

Actually there is NO open source product that allows you to record the raw MPEG stream as it comes down from the DirecTV satellites. That means with the DirecTV/Tivo combo unit you can watch time-shifted TV with NO loss in quality.

And yes, that is the main reason I'm not using an open-source alternative to tivo.

And if anyone thinks that is not a big deal they probably also think VHS is just as good as DVD.

Re:I've had this forever

[Anonymous Coward]

I just switched from DirecTiVo (Sony SAT-T60, dual drives) to a Replay TV 50x0 with Commercial Advance.

I was amazed by the quality of my DirecTiVo at the beginning. But, just as surprisingly, I am amazed that the Replay doesn't give a noticable decrease in quality (on my 32" analog TV). Medium quality on the Replay looks like local channels on DTV, and high quality looks as good as premium channels like HBO over sat.

The one downside is that I lose Dolby Digital 5.1 over Toslink by going to either standalone TiVo or Replay. On the upside, DVArchive lets me use any host that has a Java JVM as a remote scheduling and network storage station. Store all the pr0n on the linux box and all the PBS shows on the Replay.

And the $80 I am saving per month for switching to cable for Net and TV (and dropping the TiVo's phone line) really adds up. Any inconveniences are pretty much wiped out by that extra $1000 in my pocket over the next year.

WMP Requirement?

[Atrophis]

This makes me think there is some DRM used somewhere in this system. I am sure they would not be doing this without some kind of copy management in there.

I guess I will find out when I get home. ;)

Re:WMP Requirement?

[dn15]

But notice under the requirements section (as was mentioned in the article summary) it supports VLC for playback. And I doubt VLC has support for whatever DRM system they'd potentially use.

Or are you talking about something else that I overlooked?...

Good, but just not meant for us

[KiloByte]

Nice. It will make those who watch TV happy, and it will make ??AA angry -- I may not really care about the former, but the latter is a GOOD THING(tm).

However, how exactly can this affect the average SlashDot reader? Those of us who would be interested in "pirating" shows already have the capability to do so, and the rest... the rest usually hates TV altogether. Quoting my ex-roommate: "Whoever will bring a TV set here can choose: me or him."

Re:Good, but just not meant for us

[LyingDown]

However, how exactly can this affect the average SlashDot reader? Those of us who would be interested in "pirating" shows already have the capability to do so...

While I have the Linux and hardware skills to hack my TiVo and share the files across my network, I lack the time. I am really looking forward to using this feature!

Re:Good, but just not meant for us

[spectrokid]

Quoting my __ex-__ roommate: "Whoever will bring a TV set here can choose: me or him."

I guess you did choose?

Re:Good, but just not meant for us

[Moofie]

"Whoever will bring a TV set here can choose: me or him."

Did that ultimatum make sense at the time, or was your roommate fond of the shrooms?

Re:Good, but just not meant for us

[KiloByte]

All 4 of us who lived in that appartament shared his view on TV.

Re:Good, but just not meant for us

[Moofie]

No, I'm just trying to figure out what he was trying to say.

Did he hate TV?

To go?

[BHearsum]

Can somebody please explain what this TiVo To Go feature is? Not all of us keep up to date on these things.

Re:To go?

[Duvs]

TivoToGo is a feature that allows Tivo subscribers to transfer recorded content from their Tivo devices (Series2 only) to their PC/laptop for viewing and/or burning to DVD. At this time the transfer is only one-way (Tivo -> PC), there is not current ability to archive to PC, then put back on the Tivo for viewing later.

Mac version on the way

[Audiophyle]

On the TiVoToGo FAQ:

Are TiVoToGo(TM) transfers available for Apple Macintosh computers? At this time TiVoToGo transfers are not available for Apple Macintosh computers. TiVo is working hard to enable TiVoToGo features available on TiVo Desktop for Mac. We are currently working on ways to enable playback on Apple Macintosh computers. We will let our customers know in our newsletter as soon as this feature is available.

Re:Mac version on the way

[airdrummer]

hope they fix the tivo desktop prefs while they're at it...click on start, it flashes running/stop then the start button reappears, so of course u keep clicking on it;-} ps reveals multiple instances, only way to stop is kill -9:-(

i hope javaHMO picks up on this...

Re:Mac version on the way

[Anonymous Coward]

I can play shows on my OS X powerbook and Linux box via xine. Oh, sorry, that's because I have a Replay TV!

file format? drm?

[mrterrysilver]

does anyone know what file format they are using for the video? is it wmv with drm?

i think this is great, but i'm a little worried that every channel except PBS is gonna opt out of this since anyone can opt out if they want. it's a step in the right direction at least, giving a little more power back to the consumer. hopefully they'll add directivo support in the future.

Re:file format? drm?

[Anonymous Coward]

The file format is a .tivo file extension. The new Tivo Desktop checks for a valid MPEG-2 decoder so I assume the video is still MPEG-2 but with some DRM protection as well.

Tivo provides you with a "Media Access Key" for decoding the video as well as requires a password for viewing the video on your laptop/PC.

Sonic will be providing the DVD burning functionality in the next few weeks which sounds like it will be just like the current Tivo/DVD-R combo devices on the market. You'll have a standard DVD playable in any device with the Tivo menu for navigation.

Re:file format? drm?

[The Only Druid]

The parent is right, but I can provide more info:

You're getting a direct copy of the file that was originally on the Tivo (mux'd into a single file, though). The file is encrypted based on a key in the actual tivo. This key is unique to each tivo. The 'media access key' essentially allows the PC to decrypt the video on the fly, just like the Tivo does.

Its worth noting that one of the first things you do when your hack your Series 2 Tivo is to disable this encryption (the community has a variety of methods for this, including hex-patching the actual TivoApp) to make this key zero.

If they support VLC...

[Eggplant62]

Then it should be dead simple to get it to work under Linux. The Linux VLC port is nearly flawless, and I love the idea of streaming video on a home network where if I don't want to hang on the couch with the laptop while doing school work or stuff for work at home, I can still watch some tube or just simply listen to the audio portion.

Re:If they support VLC...

[13Echo]

Alternately, it shouldn't take too long for MPlayer to support the TiVo codec. From there, it's just a matter of "mplayer -vo yuv4mpeg -ao pcm YourFavoriteTVShowHere.tvo" to a fifo and encode to your favorite "open" format. Looks like it uses a simple MPEG2 codec (without any DRM?), so it very well could very well already work with ffmpeg/libavcodec. Probably doesn't even need to be transcoded.

All I can say is SWEET!

Re:If they support VLC...

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you decrypt the MPEG data before you play it on Linux? The Windows TiVo Desktop requires a Media Access Key number and a password before playing anything.

Using JavaHMO

[ewanrg]

Since the TivoToGo service is based on the same protocol, with some extensions, that was used for the Home Media Option to show hosted photos and music, I'm hopeful that the folks at JavaHMO will be able to add support for transferring videos to and from the TiVO for us Linux users.

In fact, since the current version of the TiVO software won't let you do the transfer back, this would be GREAT added functionality.

---

More on this and other opinions of mine can be found here :-)

no tivotogo for direct tv subscribers

[dingosatemybaby]

i just spent 30 minutes reading through all the material on tivo's website about this, drool dribbling down my face happily as I gleefully rub my hands together in evil scientist fashion...only to find in the end that Direct TV subscribers cant use this in the tivo units that come with the service. i saw a post by someone about linux drivers and enabling features but a quick perusal of that shows that for the average-non-linux-guru human, that is a SWAMP. ...must...control...fist..of...death

Re:no tivotogo for direct tv subscribers

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey though, at least you can still gloat that your DirecTiVo records content without a digital-analog-digital encoding process and just writes the stream from DirecTV to the hard drive. Plus you can record two shows at once. Other than that it sounds pretty limited. :-)

Re:no tivotogo for direct tv subscribers

[dingosatemybaby]

yep, very limited comparatively. I did little research before opting for DirectTV vs. cable when we moved to RI, basically because the local cable company's startup costs were ridiculous and didnt offer the same lineup (and certainly no tivo) at the same price points. my bad, i guess....

Re:no tivotogo for direct tv subscribers

[raitchison]

This is the price you pay. With a DirecTiVo you get dualtuners and record the digital stream right off the satellite but there are features that DirecTV won't allow TiVo to enable because they are scared of the content providers (TiVo is as well but isn't as dependent on the networks (like Viacom) as DirecTV is)

Expect it to get worse (the feature gap) once DirecTV releases their own DVR, when Newscorps UK satellite provider released a DVR they gradually scaled back TiVo support to the point where integrated TiVo units were almost obsolete.

Re:no tivotogo for direct tv subscribers

[Anonymous Coward]

DirecTV controls what TiVo features are available on their receivers and they've been dragging their butts on offering anything new.

Rumors say that DTV may finally offer Home Media Option (HMO) features sometime this year.

the fine print (from tivo.com)

[DiscoRaj]

*Note: Not all shows may be eligible for transfer from your TiVo box to your computer. Programming providers may restrict or limit the ability to record, display, view or transfer any particular program using a variety of copy protection mechanisms.

Re:the fine print (from tivo.com)

[confusion]

That's disappointing, but not at all suprising. Tivo has been really sensitive to the whims of networks over the years. They had to release something like tivo2go to remain at all viable against all the alternatives.

I've been playing with tivo2go this morning and it seems pretty low-end.

Jerry
http://www.syslog.org/

Re:the fine print (from tivo.com)

[will_die]

It will be interesting to see how good this is.
I think the easiest way to disable would be to create a manual recording starting a few mins before the show you want starts, then using the record extra time you could start at the regular time.
Then for assurance of if the program changes time create a regular scheduled show but place the priority so manual recording is ahead.
You would get the info for the first show, which is the only problem.

Re:the fine print (from tivo.com)

[protohiro1]

How did you get the software update already?

Re:the fine print (from tivo.com)

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the Macromedia content protection flags that TiVo has to support were present throughout the entire program (just like closed caption information), not just the beginning.

Re:the fine print (from tivo.com)

[/dev/trash]

If it looks for the broadcast flag, then your plan won't work.

Re:the fine print (from tivo.com)

[BumBiscuit]

And furthermore:

"If you transfer programs to your PC using the TiVoToGo(TM) Home Media feature, you can transfer the files (they will have a .tivo extension) to other storage devices, but they will only be playable on a PC that is running TiVo Desktop 2.0 or higher and has the correct Media Access Key and Playback Password. They will not be playable on a different PC or DVD player."

So indeed, it appears there is some built-in DRM. Anybody taking odds on what time today the hack will surface?

Great...

[superrcat]

Yet another thing to compete with pr0n for space on my hard drive.

WinME

[Anonymous Coward]

No WinME support? Whatever will those two people do?

Re:WinME

[Anonymous Coward]

Reboot, of course.

Win98SE forever!

Re:WinME

[Beyond_GoodandEvil]

Well, if WinME is out then probable Win98SE is also out of luck. And before any wise ass says upgrade, not everybody wants to jump to XP/NT just to check email and surf the web.

DirecTV

[grd000]

The software and HMO look very cool, however, it still will not work with DirecTV TiVo units; software rev. is still <4.x with no word of an upgrade date from DirecTV (if ever). If I'd known this prior to purchasing my unit in Dec. 2004, I probably would have opted for cable instead.

Re:DirecTV

[Violet Null]

Go to dealdatabase.com/forum

Read up. You can put 4.x software on the DTivos and it'll run fine. Requires knowledge of linux, and opening your Tivo (and thus voiding any warranty), but it works great.

Re:DirecTV

[Pendragn_tk]

If you just want to pull shows off, google for "TyTool" or search for it at DDB. It runs fine with 3.1.1 (the version DTiVos have) and it allows you to extract shows and make .MPG files or DVDs out of them. It's very easy to use. tk

Gee, I've been able to do all that for years...

[Anonymous Coward]

... using DVArchive and my ReplayTV, which is free with no DRM nastiness. I've got a whole catalog of stuff burned to DVD from there, too, with no re-encoding required.

Nice work, Tivo. You're only four years behind the rest of the world.

Any sign of CableCard Tivo's?

[dazzla_2000]

Does anyone know if there will be a CableCard Tivo soon?

Re:Any sign of CableCard Tivo's?

[enrico_suave]

" Does anyone know if there will be a CableCard Tivo soon?"

Soon? No... not this year (by my estimate) in the last TiVo shareholder conference call thingie they stated that they'd START to look into this, and only then maybe...

Product development cycles being what they are, I'm not optimistic for seeing this in '05 and have a faint hope of seeing it in '06 (not based on any hard data/info mind you, mostly wishful thinking)

There's a lot of gotcha's in the cablecard spec, that I presume give it not only a political barriers to entry, but technical/engineering ones... well more so the political ones =)

but that's just my over generalized take on the subject.

FWIW beside OTA ATSC you won't be seeing non-directTV stb HDTV tivo standalones if they DONT start doing cablecard or other route which could be fatal, eventually, imho.

Re:Any sign of CableCard Tivo's?

[wcrowe]

I don't think there EVER will be a cablecard TiVo, for the simple reason that the cable companies don't want them. They would prefer to sell and support their own cablecard DVR's.

It's a damn shame too. I have had a TiVo for over a year now, and also have a DVR from my cable company. The one from the cable company (a Scientific Atlanta Explorer) is laughably inferior to the TiVo in both ease of use and features.

In the future (maybe two or three years from now) I expect the TiVo to be collecting dust out in the garage when the cable company turns all-digital.

Re:Any sign of CableCard Tivo's?

[dazzla_2000]

The cable providers may not want them but why does that matter?

If I can buy a CableCard Tivo then the cable provider is required to let me use it.

Re:Any sign of CableCard Tivo's?

[wcrowe]

Good point. I guess the cable company has no control over what device you use the card in.

I'd love to replace my TiVo with one that could receive digital cable, especially if it had two tuners so I could record one show while watching another.

Re:Any sign of CableCard Tivo's?

[Moofie]

"FWIW beside OTA ATSC you won't be seeing non-directTV stb HDTV tivo standalones if they DONT start doing cablecard or other route which could be fatal, eventually, imho."

Page fault. Acronym overload. Paint your screen blue and reboot your computer.

So is world peace.

[ChaosMt]

This answer reminds me of a politician promising to deliver world peace without making any specific measurable promise. In other words, don't count on it any time soon. TivoToGo was promised a year ago to be release a half year ago. If I remember right, the rumor sites were saying the mac side of it was a problem not because apple wasn't cooperative, but because the OS doesn't have the DRM built in as deeply. This issue is a big problem for Tivo. Tivo has a much greater share of mac users than the general population. They're taunting 1/3 of their customer base.

Re:So is world peace.

[NDPTAL85]

I just read your linked site about Distributism. Do you actually believe in this stuff? Its hilarious. Especially this page: http://www.distributism.com/objectives.htm

and this one:
http://www.distributism.com/compare.htm

I take it this economic system is based on a particular religon. Whats the point of designing such a system knowing full well you'll never get 100% or even 75% of the population to be a part of any one religion?

Re:So is world peace.

[prockcore]

If I remember right, the rumor sites were saying the mac side of it was a problem not because apple wasn't cooperative, but because the OS doesn't have the DRM built in as deeply

That's why they're rumor sites. TiVo2go transfers mpeg2. The problem is most likely the fact that playing mpeg2 files on OSX is a pain in the ass.

Re:So is world peace.

[topham]

How is playing mpeg2 files a pain in the ass?

seriously, I have a Mac and have no difficulty playing DVD's, nor creating them, so how can playing MPEG2 be a problem?

Re:So is world peace.

[greed]

Out of the box, you can only play MPEG2 with the DVDPlayer. If you have just the MPEG2 elementary or program streams, you need something extra to play them back--or you need to make a DVD master image first and open that.

For a mere $20US, however, you can play them back. (But not transport streams. And not AC3 audio. So it isn't great, but... it's something.)

MPlayer and VLC also both work on OS X, though if you have an aging G3 system like I have, it's probably not going to work well enough.

Re:So is world peace.

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows doesn't come with a mpeg2 decoder either. Hell, Microsoft doesn't even give you a DVD playing application for free.
Mpeg2 decoders have to be licensed (to be legal) so Microsoft and Apple didn't bundle one with the OS.

Will this app crash constantly too?

[ArtisteTerroriste]

My music & pictures app crashes all the time on my Win2k server. I wonder if this will be any more stable. They should have just added Samba support so you could directly connect to shares. bitch & moan, bitch and moan.

Re:Will this app crash constantly too?

[noprunesmoothie]

I'm running Tivo desktop on WinXP, never had a problem with it crashing.

Re:Will this app crash constantly too?

[anjrober]

I would try the latest version of the tivo desktop. I had 1.2 and that caused all kinds of problems. 1.3 and 1.4 helped. i just downloaded 2.0 so i can't comment on it yet.

Re:Will this app crash constantly too?

[Davak]

Do you mean that when viewing the regular old My Pictures and My Music folders on 2k that it crashes?

If so, then it is probably a corrupt thumbs.db file.

A couple of weeks??

[pikapp767]

According to http://www.tivoblog.com/ this update could take several weeks to be deployed. Hopefully it doesn't take that long.

Re:A couple of weeks??

[raianoat]

I have to agree! I'd love to get my upgrade now :).

Re:A couple of weeks??

[Anonymous Coward]

If you dig around on the TiVoToGo FAQ (I won't directly link) you'll find a page where you can request an earlier automated update to the "7.1x" software.

By the way, does anyone have any idea if there are any other interesting changes in 7.1x? Presumably 5.x's large disk support will be included. The menus seem to have changed a bit. TiVo used to have release notes for some older software updates but I don't see anything like that now.

Bah software rollout!!!!!

[da1duc]

From Tivo:

Please note: Due to the large number of customers who are eligible for this software release, it will take several weeks for you to receive the software after you put in your request. Your patience is appreciated. You can check that you have received the update by confirming that your DVR is reporting software version "7.1x" in your System Information screen. You will also receive a message on your TiVo box once the new software has been installed. For more information about using the TiVoToGo feature, visit www.tivo.com/togo and our Customer Support site. Thank you for using the TiVo Service! TiVo Customer Support

This should have been something they were rolling out a long time ago. Wish they had a way for us to find out when this was going to happen. I was just about to do my New Year's clean up on my Tivo. Duc

ReplayTV it seemed we barely knew you.

[Eclypser]

I guess it's time to consider the replay 5xxx series dead now. Tivo finally has everything that made replay special. With no new developments on the horizon from Replay I guess it's time to say R.I.P.
Replay TV 5xxx series 2003-2004

P.S. May you be reborn in a 6xxx series with support for viewing ALL media formats available on your network. Including documents.

Re:ReplayTV it seemed we barely knew you.

[Anonymous Coward]

I still use my RTV 5040 and it's cheaper per month for me..
RTV is being reborn as a Denon high end DVR. (FYI)

Re:ReplayTV it seemed we barely knew you.

[Anonymous Coward]

I just boutght a 5080 and activated it with Lifetime. This is after three years on a DirecTiVo.

I am putting a 250GB drive in it today, actually.

I still prefer the commercial advance, better networking, better looks, DV Archive, and lack of tiVo's ham-handed DRM meddling. I just hope that the box lasts for three years or so to recoup the incestment.

I still get a kick every time Commercial Advance gets it right. Before, I always had to have a TiVo remote handy to clumsily advance through commercials.

DNNA might not be making or supporting the Commercial Advance Replays much anymoe, but their operation is still better than TiVo standalones, for me at least.

Re:ReplayTV it seemed we barely knew you.

[Anonymous Coward]

RTV is being reborn as a Denon high end DVR. (FYI)

Last I heard that was going to set up back $5,000 or so, and I don't even now if they ever actually produced it. Besides, it was an entirely new DVR, unrelated to Replay.

Basically, ReplayTV is dead. Very, very, very dead.

Another gotcha...

[Masem]

The ToGo service requires an updated software to be installed on your DVR box (7.1-x). They expect that the rollout of this software to take several weeks and months, though you can fill out a priority request form with your DVR's service number to get yourself higher in the queue. Until you get this software, you'll have nothing on the ToGo side from the PC.

From the website:

[slapout]

We recommend Microsoft Windows Media Player 10 for Windows XP

A personal computer running Microsoft® Windows® 2000 or XP that meets or exceeds the following requirements:
233 mhz, PentiumII processor
128 MB RAM
25 MB free disk space

I don't think I'd want to even try running wmp on a 233MHz computer.

Ok, what should I buy now...

[dmorin]

Here's what I want - I want to be able to watch Tivo recorded programs elsewhere besides the family room. I figure here are my options:

• Buy Tivo unit for every tv in the house. Not gonna happen, and not useful for taking stuff with me on the laptop.
• Buy Tivo w/DVD burner built in. Expensive little sucker, though.
• Buy regular DVD burner to add to home entertainment stack. Will Tivo let me burn stuff to DVD just like it does to VCR now? Is it worth it or will it suck?
• Get this TivoToGo thing, transfer shows to PC, get DVD burner for PC, burn shows from PC. Probably a great deal of limitation on what I can burn.
• Put DVD burner on linux server machine, use BitTorrent to search for movies/tv on net, burn for free. Probably won't always be able to find what I want, and is likely illegal.
• Build MythTV box. Not gonna happen in my house, as I could never get away with having a noisy server sitting in the entertainment center, and I'm not motivated to spend the money to build the perfect quiet box (which would probably cost more than a tivo with dvd burner anyway).

Which option is best? Right now I'm thinking to just invest in a DVD burner for the stack in the family room, that'll allow me to do other things like burn camcorder video as well.

Re:Ok, what should I buy now...

[enrico_suave]

"Here's what I want - I want to be able to watch Tivo recorded programs elsewhere besides the family room. I figure here are my options:"

"Build MythTV box. Not gonna happen in my house, as I could never get away with having a noisy server sitting in the entertainment center..."

You don't *have* to put the "media center server" in the same room as the TV... you can use thin clients over a wired network like MediaMVP (quasi how to "thrifty pvr" article on my site)

People use modd'ed xboxes as the front end of their mythTV/other media/PVR backend.

That's just one approach... there's a couple others that are worth investigating.

e.

Re:Ok, what should I buy now...

[Anonymous Coward]

Another option would be to hack your Tivo to disable encryption and extract video to a PC for burning to DVD. I do this now and programs like TyTool work great!

Re:Ok, what should I buy now...

[LyingDown]

I figure here are my options: I would add 2 more options: Low tech: run some cable from the OUT of your TiVo to other rooms in your house, so you can watch TiVo elsewhere (but not control it). There are variations to this using in-house transmitters. Hack the TiVo (documented elsewhere) to enable the web and FTP servers, so you can go to your Linux box, pull shows off the TiVo, and burn them to DVD.

Re:Ok, what should I buy now...

[blakestah]

You forgot this one

Pick up the TiVO box and carry it to the other room, and plug it back in. This works anywhere, TiVO is fully functional at playback even if disconnected from the cable/DirectTV.

FTP? or USB/FireWire?

[Ironsides]

Why don't they just add a network port or USB/FireWire interface? In the case of the network port, have an FTP server running on the TIVO so that people can pull off the shows they have recorded easily. (And have full or Nearly full FTP support so that we can delete the shows through the FTP as well so I can write a program to do this automatically for me.) In the case of USB/FireWire, treat it as an external HD. Same fun can be had this way.

Binary Size Means Everything

[waynelorentz]

Here's something interesting to note:
The 1.x version of the TiVO desktop is 8.1mb for Windows, and just 236k for the Mac.
What's up with that?

Re:Binary Size Means Everything

[cbackas]

The Mac version is a shim that exports your existing iTunes playlists and iPhoto Albums, while advertising the computer to the TiVo (over Renvezvous/ZeroConf) Since it merely uses existing subsystems on the Mac, it doesn't have much to do. On Windows, they have to provide a much more extensive UI for file selection etc.

Re:Binary Size Means Everything

[Rude Turnip]

Now, if TiVo (via the Home Media Option) could get support for playing AAC files purchased from the iTunes Music Store I'd be squealing with delight. I guess they'd need cooperation from Apple to get that going.

Re:Binary Size Means Everything

[settsu]

Given the options around that, I'd say: why?

And why would you want your files stuck in a proprietary format, Mr. Legal Eagle?

C'mon, everybody's doin' it!

=)

Re:Binary Size Means Everything

[brjndr]

Now, if TiVo (via the Home Media Option) could get support for playing AAC files purchased from the iTunes Music Store I'd be squealing with delight. I guess they'd need cooperation from Apple to get that going.

This is probably not going to happen, as Apple would prefer you buy their Airport Extreme to play AAC's on your home stereo.

Re:Binary Size Means Everything

[Rude Turnip]

Why? Because it's worth it to me. If I'm the type of person that can afford TiVo and a lifetime subscription, I'm probably the type of person that would patronize the iTunes music store. In those instances where I just want one song from an album, iTunes music store is very convenient.

Re:Binary Size Means Everything

[settsu]

I agree. In fact, I fit that profile to a tee.

I run iTunes all day long at work and it's the first place I look to get a song. Though somewhat altruistic, I believe in supporting artists. If only in principle somethies.

My point was that there are very simple methods to skirt the limitation you cited.

And one of the main reasons I skirt it, is for the very reason you cited: So I can play those songs using the Home Media Option.

I don't share the resulting MP3 files on any "networks" and I'm only doing what could be done by the "Burn CD. Rip CD." approach.

What are your thoughts?

Re:Binary Size Means Everything

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. I download lots of stuff from iTMS and am made a common criminal by circumventing the DRM to make it accessible by HMO. Its very easy to do. I don't do any P2P either.

This is is 2005. Time to upgrade to HD.

[glrotate]

No, the degredation doesn't occur in the TiVo->DVD stage. It occurs in the original->broadcast and the broadcast->TiVo stages.

Nope. For many of us DVD is inferior to broadcast.

Well then..

[ryan42]

i don't want new devices as much as I want existing devices to work properly. Right now I'm on my T|T3. l have to backspace every 2 secords. Guess why.1

Series 1?

[ayeco]

What about my lifetime support for my series 1?
Oh, wait, what? I don't get banner ads when they happen? ..nevermind then.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Good news everybody!

[powerline22]

Looks from the initial poking around on the TiVO website, that the MPEG-2 files aren't DRMed, and that the key is only needed to authorize the connection to the tivo. If this is true then it should make an OS X client a lot easier to create.

Score one point for not copping out to DRM when it could have (yes I know that it wont let you transfer some things, but in exchange for non-drmed files?)

Re:Good news everybody!

[jhoffmann]

If that's true, why are they trying to sell people their own DVD burning software? I would think they'd have some sort of DRM that the DVD burning software would say "you can only make 2 copies of this show" or would burn DVDs that have a menu asking for you media key before you could watch. Maybe I'm just too cynical, but being able to copy non-DRM'd video seems too good to be true.

Re:Good news everybody!

[Anonymous Coward]

I downloaded and installed TiVo Desktop 2.0. When you install it you have to enter a key that authorizes your Desktop software to access your Tivo units. You also have to create a playback password. The description states, "You will be asked for this password before playing TiVo recordings." I believe this is where DRM comes into play.

While you're waiting for TiVo top push down your upgrade, you may want to enable "Allow Transfers" for each TiVo unit via TiVo Central Online.

Apparently there will be software released this month by a 3rd party that will allow DVD burning.

Re:Good news everybody!

[powerline22]

The DRM key is like entering the password to get into your router. It won't secure the data that you transfer, it just restricts access. I think that the Roxio software is just so people can do one-click recordings to DVD.

Re:Good news everybody!

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, Tivo themselves recommends using VLC on certain platforms. VLC doesn't do any sort of DRM, does it?

Re:Good news everybody!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why can't VLC do DRM? The only issue is that it would be easy to modify VLC to ignore the restrictions like you can on xpdf (change 4 lines in XRef.cc), but it looks like it is a very simple (password based) DRM wrapper and there would likely be an unwrapper for it very quickly anyway.

I Have a TiVo/DVD Burner

[settsu]

I purchased the Pioneer 810H-S a few months ago. Yes, the TiVo service is great. (All the Anti's in the peanut gallery can leave now...)

I would do it again given that while I am highly tech-savvy, my wife is not. She knows her way around a computer but let's just say I won't be hacking my box any time soon. It's just not worth it to mess with what is working. FYI, I've only HAD to restart my box once due to any sort of technical issue.

As far as what you should buy "now" (vs. waiting indefinitely for the "perfect" device), I highly recommend looking at one of the TV Guide-based HD recorder/DVD burners out there. Even with the $100 rebate on activating the Plus service (I went with the unit lifetime), I'm still out $500-600 for the pleasure. FYI, TiVo equipped DVD burners come with a free Basic service. Off-brand units (LiteOn, et al) can be had for under 4 c-notes (like here or here...) with many of the same functions. Though I can't vouch for their usability. One thing that could really be an advantage would be the ability to edit out the commercials for burning to DVD, which my unit won't do.

Another consideration you had was the noise and I'll just tell you my unit is NOT quiet, thanks to a rear-mounted ~60 or 80mm fan. To keep it in perspective, it IS being used for television and movie watching. So it's not as though you can hear it very much. I wouldn't recommend this unit for a bedroom.

The nifty, but lesser used, features are nice. Like the Photo & Music over the wireless network from my computer. Or the online scheduling. Nice & handy, but those shouldn't be a deal breaker. To me, this new TiVoToGo "feature" falls in this catergory.

I think I covered the bases, but if you have any questions: shoot.

Re:I Have a TiVo/DVD Burner

[settsu]

Oh and the LiteOn unit has a IEEE 1394 port up front.

Another point against my box.

they've been working on it for some time...

[Anonymous Coward]

Supposedly since the middle of last year. And it shouldn't be a big jump from the current DirectTV HDTiVo.

I'd expect one by the middle of this year.

on some DTiVos...

[Anonymous Coward]

I forget the names they give the boxes, but early Series 2 DTiVos can accept that 4.x software. Later Series 2 DTiVos cannot because of a hardware change.

And that version of software that worked is out of date anyway.

Re:on some DTiVos...

[Violet Null]

You're thinking of the RID boxes. Previously, only non-RID boxes would accept 4.x -- the DSR7000 and HDVR2. Newer ones like the DSR704 would not. But that's not true anymore; currently (as of about 6 weeks ago), any S2 DTivo except for the really new nightlight models can take the 4.x software.

Smug MythTV User

[strags]

Awwww... that's nice. Tivo users can finally do something MythTV users have been able to do forever. Actually, with a MythTV "frontend" installed on any computer in my house, I can watch recorded programs, extract video, or even watch live TV over the ethernet.

Re:Smug MythTV User

[Moofie]

Get back to me when all required maintenance can be done without a keyboard. And you have a reliable TV listing system.

Until then, TiVo is well worth the price.

Re:Smug MythTV User

[Anonymous Coward]

Smug MythTV User

You could have left the first word out, that's assumed when talking about a MythTV user.

Other new software features?

[ischorr]

I notice my series 2 Tivo is running version 4.0b, and the Tivo-to-Go software is installed in version 7.

I guess they just started rolling out the updates, and when I signed up on the "priority upgrade list" to get the upgrade sooner, I'm told that it may still be weeks.

Has anyone else gotten the newer software? Is there anything else new? I remember the version 3 to version 4 upgrade as being pretty big, perhaps going up 3 major revs will be better (I'm expecting versions 5 and 6 were just for different hardware than I have, though)?

If they do nothing else but eliminate some of the raw *wait time* when I'm managing the box ("Please Wait - this may take a minute" usually takes me anywhere from one to 10 minutes??), I'll be a happy camper.

Re:Other new software features?

[Anonymous Coward]

Version 5 added large disk (>128GB) support. Hopefully that is included in 7.

Some of the waits are really annoying. Reorganizing season passes, for example, makes you wait on a dead screen (not even letting you watch live TV!) even though it will never require any further user interaction. The TiVo user interface is one of the best I've seen on consumer electronics devices but it still has many minor annoyances I wish TiVo would help with.

Mac support is coming...

[eltoozero]

...when Jobs is announces a new firmware for iPod Photo to enable video playback with TiVo To Go support Jan 11 at Macworld, can't you read between the lines?

So much for Apple needing sellable MPAA content to justify a cool feature without getting sued.

iPod TV

I need to start my own rumors site.

Not Just Tivo and ReplayTV

[AmberBlackCat]

Are there any products besides the Tivo that support transfering video over the network or perhaps via firewire/usb2?

The new Panasonic DMR-E500HS has an Ethernet port and the ability to stream video to other units through a network. It also has a bigger hard drive than any other recorder I've seen.

All it needs is somebody to make some software to emulate the unit and save the streamed video to the hard drive. Maybe the guys who emulated the ReplayTV can do that for this unit?

On the downside, I must warn you that I have the older model and the hard drive crapped out after only 2 years or so, which is outrageous. And a look in the owner's manual of this one gives the impression they know their hard drives are fragile. If you get it, make sure you get some kind of extended warranty or product protection plan.

By the way, I doubt we'll have any luck transferring video via firewire. The Digital Rights Police seem to have restrictions built into any device that supports Firewire. The best option I've seen is the ReplayTV with the emulator software. I don't remember the name of the software but I'm sure somebody here can tell you.

Re:Not Just Tivo and ReplayTV

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called DVArchive www.dvarchive.org

One-way transfer?

[HTH NE1]

Looks like they're only enabling transfer of video from your TiVo to your PC and not the other way around. At least, that's how they're define TiVoToGo. Their FAQ on it mentions nothing about transferring programs from the PC back to the TiVo.

I've been having problems with one of my Series2 TiVos and was hoping I could transfer everything from it to the PC, do a full reset of the unit, and transfer everything back. Since the upgrade to two 120 GB drives, and several times yesterday, it would restart and hang on the first grey startup screen until it was unplugged and reconnected. (It's spending the day off today.)

I'd rather not have to buy more hard drives to upgrade the other Series2 when I have 800 GB available on the PC's SATA drives. Especially if it will make the second box just as unstable.

And if the protections are too onerous, I might still opt for another digital-analog-digital conversion to get the video to my Mac OS X system for editing and burning.

Congratulations Tivo! Only took 4 years to copy

[skintigh2]

what ReplayTV does for free.

How Tivo makes news:
1) ReplayTV releases feature for free using free, built-in hardware
2) Many years pass
3) Tivo copies feature and charges extra for the hardware and adds a monthly fee
4) News!

Smelly Nerds with Time to Kill...

[bwoodring]

can afford to use MythTV. For those of us who like using our entertainment devices instead of maintaining them, there is TiVo.

Re:Smelly Nerds with Time to Kill...

[strags]

Hey now... I'm not *that* smelly.

Re:Smelly Nerds with Time to Kill...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes you are. I can smell you from here.

Re:Congratulations Tivo! Only took 4 years to copy

[bwoodring]

I don't know about how long ReplayTV has had this feature, but I do know that TiVO isn't charging extra for hardware or software to use TiVoToGo. It's a free feature that comes with normal service.

Re:Congratulations Tivo! Only took 4 years to copy

[skintigh2]

It's been so long since I've looked at Tivo, does it come with a net port? I just remember they were charging a good bit to network mutiple Tivos.

Windows ME

[DeathBunnyRanger]

Do people actually use Windows ME? Bill Nye sold us all wrong

Everything is temporary

[Atario]

one would be a temporary copy, the other permanent.

Nothing is permanent. Eventually the heat death of the universe will occur, and we won't be able to play our libraries any more. Therefore, they're temporary.

So what about Canadians

[issachar]

So for all you Canucks out there... Tivo doesn't so much work in Canada, so what do you all use for your PVR option?

Re:So what about Canadians

[Anonymous Coward]

You can use TiVo in Canada. Check out http://www.tivocanada.com/ and its forums.

Re:So what about Canadians

[enrico_suave]

" So for all you Canucks out there... Tivo doesn't so much work in Canada, so what do you all use for your PVR option?"

I believe snapstream's beyondTV supports free canadian listings/guide data other pc pvr products usually support canadian listings via xmltv spec/plugin.

e.

Re:So what about Canadians

[topham]

We use Tivo's.

You just need a little patience, and a service emulator.

Not perfect, but it will do.

Re:sounds..

[Pfhreakaz0id]

That's odd. My family has had a replayTV for about a year. We visited my in laws for Christmas and they have a Tivo. We were interested to see it but we both said at about the same time "can you turn those sounds off?!". We both thought it was annoying as hell.

Re:sounds..

[wizbit]

Fair enough, I just think there are appropriate times for audible cues, especially when skipping through commercials (eg, higher-pitched == faster) and such. Also, I tend to mash the remote control buttons a bit, so hearing a sound and knowing that the PVR's already received the "Enter" button-push event, and it's working on it, is better than mashing it again and causing something I hadn't intended to happen.

Re:sounds..

[Pfhreakaz0id]

yeah. I guess I could see that. My replayTV has an upgraded drive and is an old unit and sometimes is a little sluggish to respond. It would be nice, I guess, to have an audible cue that was the equivalent of "yeah, I'm working on that." I guess if I got used to it, it wouldn't be so bad. But i've never been into audible cues. I turn them off on my PC, my cell phone, etc.

Re:Congratulations Tivo! Only took 4 years to copy

[Crazen]

You have to buy a USB based network adapter that is on their "compatible" list. This includes adapters from Dlink & Netgear. Home Media Option used to have a one time fee of $99 bucks associated with it, it's now included with a normal subscription on Series 2 DVRs.

Re: your sig...

[Moofie]

"GUI: Path to enlightenment or straight-jacket?"

Tool, with advantages and disadvantages. Why is this hard to understand...

Windows MP??? The best of ME + XP??? Scary thought

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me guess, Windows MP takes the stability of ME and combines it with the bloat of XP? No thanks, I'll stick with my Windows 3.1 for now. :)

Buy ReplayTV

[meehawl]

here are my options

The simplest and most platform-agnostic solution is to buy ReplayTV with autoconfig'd built-in ethernet. The Java-based DVArchive UI lets you control/stream/move shows between any LAN/WAN connected ReplayTVs or Java-enabled platform. It's uPNP-based so you can rig up some nice scripting. Think of each RTV as a loosely coupled scriptable capture device with significant on-device storage.

You use something like the ReVue UI to convert the RTV MPEGs to vanilla MPEGs, and burn to DVD or convert to MPEG-4 and burn/store/stream as required. Because ReplayTV recordings are unemcumbered by DRM and have a 4-year headstart on Tivo in sharing shows, you can go to online sites like Poopli and browse/download tens of thousands of shows stored on the networks of other ReplayTV owners. If you buy the right RTV model you also get automatic commercial advance - which when it works is like magic!

Re:Congratulations Tivo! Only took 4 years to copy

[Moofie]

You forgot somewhere in step 2 when ReplayTV went out of business.

How Quickly They Forget

[meehawl]

Tivo finally has everything that made replay special

Really? When Tivo has auto commercial advance, show sharing, Poopli, and something Java-based platform-agnostic like DVArchive then I might get interested. But I doubt it. Someone I know attended a TV industry conference where the Tivo CEO was a guest speaker. She said he was shilling for the media companies. He basically made nice with all the companies, told them they had nothing to fear, and looked forward to delivering "quality eyeballs" during pause breaks and fast-forwards.

dumbing down?

[meehawl]

Tivo is better for consumers, more dumbed down than ReplayTV.

I've always wondered about this, about people who say Tivo is so much "easier" than RTV. I've used both Tivo and ReplayTV (have several RTVs) and honestly, the remote is a piece of piss. If someone *can't* figure out the "record" and "play" and "select" buttons then they are in trouble. Multiple networked RTVs passed the wife test *instantly*.

Re:FTP? or USB/FireWire?

[Big Boss]

All S2 units have USB2 ports. Google for mfs_ftp if you want the FTP support. I use it frequently to get shows off my Tivo, been doing it for years. Then you just need TyTools to process them into MPEG2 files.

But you CAN have something better....

[Big Boss]

Go to dealdatabase.com/forums and look for the 4.x on RID threads. It's not that hard to enable all the fun stuff on the DTV boxes. And you can get normal FTP access to the content that way, no need for Tivo2Go. I've got full HMO and video extraction with no limits on my SD-DVR80s.

Re:But you CAN have something better....

[dingosatemybaby]

Below is DirectTV's response (edited to remove personally identifiable crap). I asked them how to get TivoToGo to work w/my DirectTV DVR. 01/03/2005 08:56 AM Dear , Thank you for writing. We are sorry for any inconvenience. Currently we do not have the Home Media option available, but you can still receive it using a stand alone TiVo system connected to your services. Just as personal computers are rapidly evolving, we expect DIRECTV System receivers to incorporate many new features in the coming years. We will enhance our programming service as the receiving equipment evolves. For example, receivers capable of decoding Dolby Digital sound, high definition programming, and even interactive television are now on the market, and we have begun offering programming in all of those formats. All DIRECTV System receivers bring you excellent picture and sound quality and on-screen program information. However, the on-screen menus of each brand may have a slightly different "look and feel." Also, each manufacturer of DIRECTV Systems offers various receivers which each offer a different array of features. The availability of certain features depends on the receiving equipment you own. If you have questions about DIRECTV Systems, we suggest you see our web site for a list of system manufacturers at http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/learn/OurPartners.js p#Manufacturers Please let us know if we can be of further assistance. We really appreciate your business and hope you continue enjoying DIRECTV service. Keep visiting our web site at DIRECTV.com for latest news and updates. Sincerely, DIRECTV Customer Service

Tivo ToGoNowhere

[BumBiscuit]

Anybody else fail to see the utility in this much-hyped update?

So I've transfered a DRM-locked TV show from the TiVo in the living room to my PC in the den. Now what? Well, let's see... I can:

1. Watch it on that selfsame PC. However, the TV connected to the TiVo is only 30 feet away, and that has a couch in front of it instead of a back-wrenching desk chair. Furthermore, the TV doesn't suffer noise interference from the twin jet engine fans that keep my Prescott CPU from melting into a wad of silicon goo. Closer proximity to the beer fridge is also a key benefit.

2. Transfer the TV show to my laptop and take it with me when I travel. However, since my laptop -- and nearly every laptop I've ever run across -- has around 3 GB of empty space on its hard drive, I had better not plan on traveling for more than about an hour. That is, unless I recorded the show at the lowest quality setting, in which case I can expect to enjoy almost three hours of huge patchy blocks of color sliding around my screen at 1024x768. If you love quilting and are severely myopic, you'll adore Tivo ToGo!

3. Take advantage of yet another opportunity to abuse my Mac-using friends for not being able to join in the fun. I will artfully omit the fact that the "fun" in question pretty much consists of squinting at a tiny, dim LCD until your corneas bleed, whilst indistinct approximations of the cast of Mama's Family caper about, leaving ghostly trails in their wake.

I can not:

1. Archive shows from the TiVo hard drive to the PC for later viewing on the TiVo. Once it's on your PC, it's marooned there, Gilligan style. And something tells me our good friends in the TV industry won't be sending a rescue party any time soon.

2. Burn the archived shows to a DVD for later viewing back in the trusty living room. This is going to put a serious damper on my plans to assemble and distribute a complete collection of Small Wonder bootlegs. Good thing I can already do the exact same thing, with much less hassle and little loss in quality, on my twenty year old VCR.

3. Do anything that I might have actually wanted to do with the digital content. Until, of course, the professor manages to concoct a hack out of coconuts and palm fronds.

Seriously, I love ya, TiVo. But this DRM-hobbled bell/whistle is not going to do anything for your dwindling chunk of market share.

-- Bum

Re:Congratulations Tivo! Only took 4 years to copy

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, how did that go for Replay?

Let's see: bankrupt twice, and now completely abandoned by their current owner.

Yep, they sure outsmarted TiVo!

Re:Congratulations Tivo! Only took 4 years to copy

[skintigh2]

Now I'm even more confused. First I'm told the hardware is not extra, now I'm told not only is it extra but Tivo doesn't even sell it, and thus certainly doesn't support it.

At least they don't charge you an extra $100 for permission to use hardware that you bought from another company. How nice of them.

My ReplayTV has a built in 10/100, and they never charge for the network software. It took me a while to run ethernet to my tv room, but now I have cute screen savers and all that important stuff.

Tivo Hypocrisy

[Stitch76]

I noticed on the Tivo to GO site that Tivo will eventually release software to burn a dvd from content on Tivo to Go. What is the difference from this and Bitorrent? It makes me sick that they can get away with it, but something that off the mainstream way of doing things is verboten.

But who has the time?

[Lovejoy]

Disclaimer: IAALM. (Linux Moron)

I'd love to have MythTV features, but I don't have the time for it. If I spent a LONG TIME working on MythTV, I could probably make it work, but I don't want to. Even if I were an expert, it would take hours. (From what I've read) and then I'd have to maintain it.

I plugged in my TiVo and it worked. That's what I have time for. That, and Slashdot.

But I doubt you're smelly. I think you probably just enjoy tinkering more than I do.

Oh, and my wife would kill me the first time she turned on the TV and saw /usr/bin/something/something.