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UK Report Suggests Dangers In Cell Phone Use

The next shot has been fired in the battle over whether cell phone use is harmful: yorktimsson writes "The Times Online is reporting (along with most UK press) that 'Professor Sir William Stewart, chairman of the National Radiological Protection Board (NRPB), said that evidence of potentially harmful effects had become more persuasive over the past five years.'" In particular, the NRPB's report lists four studies suggesting negative consequences of cell phone use, from tumors to reduced cognitive function.

275 comments

  1. No Actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sir William actually stated that while there was no proof, usage should be limited as a precautionary measure. It's the same message as ever, and still total BS.

    1. Re:No Actually by odyrithm · · Score: 2

      I would'nt call it BS, but I would say that its been over-hyped here in the UK already without *proof*, but thats the same with everything here.. I remeber when they(No idea who these wack jobs are) came out and said breast feeding was bad for your baby.. its crazy, theres thousands of these people out there looking to panic the nation to give themselves a name.

      --
      moo
    2. Re:No Actually by HuckleCom · · Score: 0

      Well, from what I understand now, at least in the US is that it makes your baby 'smarter' ? And the whole cellphone thing, is as arbritary as worrying about sleeping in a room with a WAP, hope my balls don't fall off from using a laptop with wireless while using my cellphone!

    3. Re:No Actually by odyrithm · · Score: 1

      Hah, yes but a WAP only gives of ~100mW, a mobile phone(cell phone) on the other hand gives of ~4W? I only quickly researched but it sounds right from what I have heard from people in the past.

      --
      moo
    4. Re:No Actually by eric_brissette · · Score: 1, Funny

      But as long as I have that little gold antenna-boosting-harmful-wave-deflecting sticker on my phone, I'll never have to worry either way.

      Didn't you see the scientific looking animation?

    5. Re:No Actually by stupidfoo · · Score: 1

      New cell phones output ~ 1/2W

    6. Re:No Actually by Cat_Byte · · Score: 1

      handhelds are a max of 1/2 Watts here in the states. Not sure about anywhere else. You can get up around 2 (maybe higher) on the car mounted versions but not many people use those any more.

      --
      Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one the bus load of girls just went down.
    7. Re:No Actually by SenseiLeNoir · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Breast milk makes your baby smarter?

      *looks at own family*

      Ok, i have never been breast fed (I was premature by nearly two months, so was put on a special SMA compound instead). Yet, I became pretty smart in both intellect, and street-smarts. I was able to argue a case with the Profs at uni, and also with the bozos (Chavs) down at the local shopping centre. And did a Phd too to boot.

      My sister was breast fed until quite late. Yet screwballed her studies, with only 1 GCSE pass (now two). Even in streetsmarts she is not so smart.

      I think it has nothign to do with breast feeding itself, but more to do with other factors.

      --
      Have a nice day!
    8. Re:No Actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't even like to fall asleep with the remote control resting on my jacobs.

    9. Re:No Actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RTFA - it's a recommendation for children - and I'd take a genuine scientists one over a fellow AC's off -hand "BS" any day...

    10. Re:No Actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah & I know someone who got cancer without smoking, and I know someone who smokes and didn't get cancer. so that must proove all those scientific studies to be wrong.

      jeesh.

      science 101: anecdotal incidents don't mean squat.

    11. Re:No Actually by GuyWithLag · · Score: 1

      Let me guess: you are older then your sister by at least a year.

    12. Re:No Actually by bilby727 · · Score: 1

      I believe the precautionary principle should be applied here. It is not "BS" to take precautions when there is a reasonable possiblility of harm.

    13. Re:No Actually by hunterx11 · · Score: 1
      Science 102: Unreplicated studies that demonstrate effects which are barely statistically significant are not proof.

      Journalism 101: Report all studies as solid proof of a dangerous new phenomenon.

      --
      English is easier said than done.
    14. Re:No Actually by dgatwood · · Score: 1
      You know, that fits:

      In particular, the NRPB's report lists four studies suggesting negative consequences of cell phone use, from tumors to reduced cognitive function.

      It also explains a lot about certain people in marketing. :-D

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    15. Re:No Actually by MechaStreisand · · Score: 1

      But there isn't a reasonable possibility of harm. From what I've seen, the evidence supports that something is going on, and the risk of a certain disorder is doubled, but it is doubled from one insignificant probability (1 in 100000) to another. There is no point whatsoever in foregoing or even reducing cell phone usage when the risk is so slight compared to everyday things, like crossing the road, or driving a car, or taking a shower.

      --
      Disclaimer: IANAL. This post is, however, legal advice, and creates an attorney-client relationship.
    16. Re:No Actually by bilby727 · · Score: 1


      If the risk of a disorder is 1 in 50000 then in the United States population of 293 million there would be 5860 people afflicted. Tell them there is no point worrying.

      The article in question only talks about acoustic neuromas. What if there are other health affects that we haven't found? The overall rate could be a lot higher.

  2. Not just physical by dsginter · · Score: 3, Informative

    An interesting story to find on slashdot just after I hear NPR's bit on the crackberry.

    --
    More
    1. Re:Not just physical by dnoyeb · · Score: 1

      Im an electrical engineer and so is my boss. Whenever his phone is about to ring, and were in a conference room, the room's speaker phone will output a burst of noise.

      I find this happens with my phone around certain devices as well. Its definitely a lot of radiation. I wouldn't even consider living anywhere near one of those towers.

      I use mine as infrequently as possible, but they are becoming ubiquitous, and one must consider second hand radiation.

    2. Re:Not just physical by delus10n0 · · Score: 1

      That's not "radiation". I'm not sure of the term I'm looking for right now (perhaps induction?) but it's definitely not "radiation".

      I used to get small pops in my speakers whenever my 2-way pager would send or receive information.

      --
      Not All Who Wander Are Lost
    3. Re:Not just physical by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      That's not the tower doing that -- it's the phone. The base station sends a signal to the phone {actually, several base stations try to send a signal to the phone}; and the phone sends back a response, which may be picked up by several base stations. Whichever challenge-response had the clearest path {or the only one} is used for the conversation. All the base stations are linked; and if at anytime during the conversation the signal is stronger in another base station than the one currently in use, then the conversation is re-routed seamlessly through that one instead.

      Now, almost any imperfectly-matched antenna broadcasting a digital signal -- characterised by sharp transitions -- will radiate severe harmonics and subharmonics that a MW radio in the same room will pick up easily {but which won't actually travel very far}. What's more, any audio amplifier with even a slight DC offset and/or nonlinearity around the zero crossing will perform amplitude demodulation -- in other words, behave as a kind of untuned MW+LW radio.

      It's not a masively strong signal. It just overloads analogue amplifiers quite spectacularly because it's a digital signal and so goes violently from one extreme to the other. Also, the initial negotiation is necessarily done with the phone operating at full-on maximum strength: the RF signal is adjusted up and down continuously throughout the conversation, both to save your batteries and to avoid blocking other nearby base stations.

      How much potential energy do you really think there is in a piddly little telephone battery anyway?

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  3. it won't change anything by mirko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People will keep phoning, then, they'll sue the phone manufacturers in order to force them to build more secure devices.

    --
    Trolling using another account since 2005.
    1. Re:it won't change anything by PoprocksCk · · Score: 2

      Exactly. That's the way it is with people... Everyone ignores research that something they're doing may be dangerous, until it gravely begins to affect them.

      People have got to start stepping back and start thinking that their health may be a bit more important than being slightly more efficient in business or whatever.

    2. Re:it won't change anything by tehshen · · Score: 1

      Talking of more secure devices, I've seen phone covers (not sure if they were tinfoil) that were supposed to reduce the amount of radiation emitted from phones. I have no idea if they were effective or not, but if enough people are moved by reports like this, protective covers could become a new market as well.

      --
      Guy asked me for a quarter for a cup of coffee. So I bit him.
    3. Re:it won't change anything by -brazil- · · Score: 2, Informative

      Um... if those covers really did reduce the amount of radiation, they'd make the phone STOP WORKING.

      --

      The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
      --Henry Kissinger

    4. Re:it won't change anything by AvitarX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A cover on the front could greatly reduce the amount going strait into your brain while still allowing signal to go out the back.

      Kind of how the nozzle cover on a gas pump heeps vapor from getting out but not cover the hole.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    5. Re:it won't change anything by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      splash guard is the word I was looking for.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    6. Re:it won't change anything by -brazil- · · Score: 1

      OK, so then it would only cause the phone to depend very stronlgy on which way it's held - turn around while talking and your connection is gone...

      --

      The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
      --Henry Kissinger

  4. So if it affects children by cheezemonkhai · · Score: 1

    It will also probably affect Adults.

    I forsee a large market for genital protectors made from lead to protect male sperm counts at some point in the future.

    Have to say it is a little worrying, although after I finally gave up trying to resolve a problem with unsolicited recieving of premium rate text messages, it's less of a problem since I won't have a phone soon.

    1. Re:So if it affects children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I forsee a large market for genital protectors made from lead to protect male sperm counts at some point in the future.

      Why not just fix the . . .

      Mmmm, do you work for Microsoft by any chance?

    2. Re:So if it affects children by eingram · · Score: 4, Funny

      Where in the HELL do you hold your phone when you talk man?!?

    3. Re:So if it affects children by joelethan · · Score: 2, Informative
      The concern is that children have less skull bone to shield their brains (adults are more thick-skulled!), and that those brains have more active cell growth and cell division. This is because lab research shows unshielded growing tissue is vulnerable to such non-ionizing radiation.

      I do take your point though, and I have (seriously) stopped carrying my phone in my fron trouser pocket. Of course I have it out of my pocket while making calls. The downside is that the vibrate function is less fun.

      /joelethan --

    4. Re:So if it affects children by Plural+of+Mongoose · · Score: 0

      I didn't RTFA, but there has been a fair hoopla over this here in the UK, and I've read some of the published reports...

      The danger to children as opposed to adults was based upon the 1.0mm to 1.5mm or so additional skull thickness in adults - the 'damage range' of the EMF from the phones was far more severe in *very* young children. The greatest danger seems to be in the under 5 crowd, with dimishing worries through to late teens.

      That said, how hard could it be to keep kids from using cell phones? No, wait...

      --
      The last fucking thing you want is my undivided attention...
    5. Re:So if it affects children by joelethan · · Score: 1
      A cell phone makes chatter with the nearest cell antenna to register itself in a cell. Not to mention the 2-way traffic involved in receiving SMS messages and calls.

      /JE

    6. Re:So if it affects children by jwdb · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Mr. Ventura? Is that you?

    7. Re:So if it affects children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people keep it in their pockes when not talking, it still emits radiation at such times.

      Oh, and might I add.... dummy.

    8. Re:So if it affects children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      maybe he's not using it when he speaks, but when he's receiving phone calls ... in vibrator mode.

    9. Re:So if it affects children by eviltypeguy · · Score: 1

      Brings new meaning to the phrase, "Talking out of their arse."

    10. Re:So if it affects children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You fucking traitor.

      They're called "mobile phones" or just "mobiles" in the UK. Don't give in to US-speak.

    11. Re:So if it affects children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not while talkin, it's while making use of the vibrate feature....

    12. Re:So if it affects children by jwdb · · Score: 1

      I guess the mods haven't seen Ace Ventura in a while...

  5. What types of phones? by Coneasfast · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The article doesn't mention if this is for GSM or CDMA phones? As i have heard, GSM is a little less harmful. Can someone with a bit more knowledge provide some insight?

    --
    Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.
    1. Re:What types of phones? by DjReagan · · Score: 1

      It's a UK report where just about everyone is on a GSM phone.

      --
      "When I grow up, I want to be a weirdo"
    2. Re:What types of phones? by isometrick · · Score: 3, Informative

      The RF phase modulator is tuned at a slightly different phase angle in GSM based handsets, resulting in wavelengths that have more difficulty penetrating the epidermis.

      Duh!

    3. Re:What types of phones? by HomerJayS · · Score: 1, Funny

      What about phones with the Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator?

      Are they safe?

    4. Re:What types of phones? by Anonymous+Writer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What about bluetooth headsets or speakerphone functions? Does this problem affect all who use mobile phones, or only when the mobile must be held up to the ear? 3G videoconferencing mobile phones don't work that way when using video, nor does the use of SMS messaging and other on-screen functions. Are headsets better, or just wireless bluetooth ones?

    5. Re:What types of phones? by nbert · · Score: 1
      As i have heard, GSM is a little less harmful.
      GSM starts with the highest possible signal when a connection gets established. The phone then decreases the signal to a level, which is sufficient to maintain the connection.

      IIRC newer standards do it the other way around - the phone increases the level until the connection is maintainable. So that means less radiation for the user. However, this is just one aspect, so it doesn't prove that GSM is more harmful.

    6. Re:What types of phones? by Aggrazel · · Score: 1

      I don't know about that but some of my coworkers switched to Nextel phones (Which i absolutely hate nextel) and they freak me out because if a coworker is in my office and they get a call on their nextel, my monitor and speakers will actually start to flicker and make popping sounds a few seconds before their phone rings.

      So I yell at them to take their cancer boxes away from me! :)

    7. Re:What types of phones? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      My Motorola V300 does the same thing. I can tell when a call is coming in a few seconds beforfe the phone starts to ring.

    8. Re:What types of phones? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Well, those have the effect of polarising the neutrino stream, which means you may end up with a circulatory obstruction, leading to an acute case of paraesthesia.

    9. Re:What types of phones? by jacksonj04 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      why is it always dit dit-di-dit dit-di-dit dit-di-dit?

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    10. Re:What types of phones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      GSM starts with the highest possible signal when a connection gets established. The phone then decreases the signal to a level, which is sufficient to maintain the connection.

      Wow what a flashback to the sound of a modem handshake.

    11. Re:What types of phones? by Cat_Byte · · Score: 1

      My T-Mobile does that next to the speakers on my computer and the speakers on my alarm clock radio even while it isn't playing. It would also do it at random times during the night without it ringing. I guess it was doing some kind of update. At that hour I didn't care and just threw it on the floor to get it away from the speakers.

      --
      Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one the bus load of girls just went down.
    12. Re:What types of phones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's periodically reporting to the base station that it's still there.

    13. Re:What types of phones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not! ....you insensitive clod! It is...

      bit bit-bi-bit bit-bi-bit bit-bi-bit because Nextel uses binary! Do I have to teach you everything?

    14. Re:What types of phones? by Josh+Booth · · Score: 1

      The problem is the antenna. I haven't take E&M yet (I will this semester) but I believe that electromagnetic waves follow the inverse square law, so an antenna 1 inch (or 2.54 cm) from your brain is going to be about 324 times more affective upon your noggin than one that is 1 1/2 (~ .5 m) from you. Bluetooth doesn't go that far so it's probably not nearly as dangerous.

    15. Re:What types of phones? by dublin · · Score: 1

      As i have heard, GSM is a little less harmful. Can someone with a bit more knowledge provide some insight?

      Actually, although the evidence is far from conclusive, there have been several studies that indicate that GSM/TDMA is significantly more likely to be harmful than CDMA.

      If you look at the power distribution across both frequency and time, the research shows it's pretty apparent why - in GSM/TDMA, there's silence, followed by a very quick high-power set of RF spikes (the ones and zeroes you transmit during your time slot) usually concentrated at a particular frequency. Several research studies seem to point to high-power fast rise time and fast fall time signals (the square waves of bits) as having not-yet-fully-understood detrimental biological effects that are apparently not due to heating per se. The number of studies showing the existence of such harmful effects does seem to be growing over time, although the data is "noisy" at best.

      (Remember that polarized molucules like water, sugars, and many proteins found in abundance in the brain will try to align themselves with each successive polarity reversal. At high powers, it is this molecular flipping that generates heat in microwave ovens. Apparently, just stirring those molecules around even gently may not be a very good idea, even if it's not at the very high powers required to generate significant heating.)

      CDMA, on the other hand, has the distinct advantage of not having high-power RF spikes, but has a much lower amplitude signal (still square waves, but a whole bunch of much smaller ones spread out across both frequency and time.) The signal literally looks like noise, and it's designed to: the "chipping sequence" mixed with the data in CDMA type modulations is sometimes referred to as a "PN" (for "Pseudo Noise") code. (There are a set of these PN codes that are mathematically orthogonal to each other, these are the "gold codes" that are most useful for CDMA or other direct sequence spread spectrum communications. The math behind this cool, hairy, and above my pain threshold...)

      I had to learn about this stuff about ten years ago when I was doing a lot of early wireless work (both voice and data) in hospitals, which are justifiably paranoid about RF interference, especially since medical devices are exempt from most FCC regulation and sadly, are therefor often much more susceptible to RF interference than commercial devices. The week after I learned what I've set out here, I traded my old phone in for a new Sprint CDMA PCS phone - I don't plan to ever have a GSM/TDMA "CancerPhone".

      (BTW, Richard Branson, head of the Virgin Group that includes Virgin Wireless, will not use a cellphone at all, for whatever that's worth - I'm not sure what the availability of CDMA is in the UK, though; GSM/TDMA may be the only choice...)

      I don't have all my bookmarks on the topic handy now, (and they're probably badly out of date anyway), but some persistent web searching should turn up much of the medical research that does exist - only those that deny reality can say there are no health effects of cellphone RF - we know those effects exist, but we don't know what all is behind them, or what risk is posed by those effects. Such research is made especially difficult by the rapid pace of technology in the wireless business - we may not really be able to generate meaningful staistical studies for decades yet. Until we do, I'm going to play it as safe as I can, and as far as I can tell, that means CDMA (Sprint and Verizon mostly, in the US.)

      --
      "The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last ./ post
    16. Re:What types of phones? by dublin · · Score: 1

      GSM starts with the highest possible signal when a connection gets established. The phone then decreases the signal to a level, which is sufficient to maintain the connection.

      IIRC newer standards do it the other way around - the phone increases the level until the connection is maintainable.


      No, actually, because the CDMA signal is much lower-power and noise-like by design, it's much more susceptible to the "near-far" problem, and so needs to manage transmitter power far more closely. It was primarily the problem of getting suitably "power agile" radios developed that slowed CDMA's entry to the market - it's a hard problem.

      --
      "The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last ./ post
    17. Re:What types of phones? by nbert · · Score: 1

      So does that mean that CDMA manages connections differently? Or does that mean that more sending stations have to be built in order to cover an area? I'm sorry, but I really don't get your point.

  6. Only in children by bartyboy · · Score: 3, Informative
    From TFA:

    CHILDREN under the age of eight should not use mobile phones, parents were advised last night after an authoritative report linked heavy use to ear and brain tumours and concluded that the risks had been underestimated by most scientists.

    This study is applicable to children. The results may or may not be applicable to adults.

    Timothy, please stop being so sensational.

    1. Re:Only in children by Sirch · · Score: 1

      The reasoning behind this being aimed at children is due to the comparative thinness of their skulls versus an adult's. It is thought that thicker skulls would absorb more radiation and hence provide more protection than thinner ones.

    2. Re:Only in children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what kind of fucked up world do we live in where 8 year olds walk around talking on cell phones enough to give them brain damage from radiation?

    3. Re:Only in children by TintinX · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Timothy, please stop being so sensational.

      I think the word you're looking for is sensationalist

      Unless you're intentionally complimenting him! ;-)

    4. Re:Only in children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This study is applicable to children. The results may or may not be applicable to adults

      This study is applicable to children. The results are more than likely applicable to the average slashdotter. :)

    5. Re:Only in children by WelcomeToTheFallout · · Score: 1

      Does anyone else find the thought of anyone under 8 using a cell phone ridiculous?

      What does a 6 year old need with a cell phone? Who does he call? Does he need to call his girlfriend so they can hook up after kindergarten? Or does he have to arrange a meeting time with his pixie stick dealer?

      --
      What'chu lookin' at Willis?
    6. Re:Only in children by furchin · · Score: 1

      If it hurts children, it's probably safest to assume that it hurts adults too, until proven otherwise.

    7. Re:Only in children by RedWizzard · · Score: 1
      This study is applicable to children. The results may or may not be applicable to adults.
      No. The studies (if you'd really read TFA you'd know there were four) are not just applicable to children. However the recommendation in the report summarising the research is that children may be at particular risk and should therefore not use mobiles.
  7. If It's True... by Uruk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If it's true and mobile phones really do fry your eggs, (and that's in doubt) I wonder if it would really change anyone's behavior.

    Mobile phones have become a lifestyle thing, and plenty of people I know are addicted to the ability to be reached and reach anybody else at any time. I have actually seen people get quite nervous at the prospect that their US mobile phone wasn't going to work overseas on vacation. Trying to talk them out of taking the phone to the airport for the last 20 minutes of possible usability is like talking to a hoarder during riots.

    Anyway, if there's anybody out there that actually has the information on HOW mobile phones are supposedly harming people, I'd be interested in hearing it. (i.e. what about the electromagnetic radiation is harmful? Does it detach too many bogons from people's neurons?)

    --
    -- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
    1. Re:If It's True... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in december, i saw two separate pedestrians get hit (neither were injured luckily) by cars whose drivers were using--- cell phones!

      that's one way mobile phones are harming people.

      i just don't get the idiot on the cell who brings the car to a complete stop at the intersection, looks blankly at a person walking in front of their car and then accelerates into their legs. It almost seems intentional.

      a big shut the fuck up and get the fuck off the phone while youre driving your double-wide god bless americamobile to you people.

      SUV+Cell=Cocksucker

    2. Re:If It's True... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " If it's true and mobile phones really do fry your eggs, (and that's in doubt) "

      Braniac (UK TV) showed that they are unable to fry chicken eggs at least.

    3. Re:If It's True... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what about this guy that was driving in a truck talking on the cell phone. someone shoots at the guy hitting his cell phone and saving his life. true story too.

    4. Re:If It's True... by rev_sanchez · · Score: 1

      Good to know. Now I'll just hold the phone at arm's length and scream into it.

      I'll still need an ear piece to hear. Or, we could just use the head set with the mic and get the antenna away from the head. Problem solved.

      If the manufacures were smarter they'd figure out if this is bad or not real quick and make real, practical suggestions on this instead of the probable bullshit coverup they'll really do like the cigarette companies.
      Liquor will do some pretty bad stuff to you too over 40 years but the industry didn't try to pretend otherwise. The wost thing that I know of that they do is fight drunk driving laws, but they still tell people not to do that shit.

      --
      If you didn't come to party don't bother knocking on my door. Prince '1999'
    5. Re:If It's True... by iabervon · · Score: 1

      I'd guess that having people distracting you at random moments will damage your ability to focus and add to the number of things you're always listening for, increasing your cognitive load. The effects of the transmission are unlikely to be significant compared to the effects of the interface.

    6. Re:If It's True... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I have actually seen people get quite nervous...
      > talking to a hoarder during riots.

      Followed by

      > HOW mobile phones are supposedly harming people, I'd be interested in hearing it

      Didja' think about what you typed there, fella?

  8. From the study... Mobiles considered harmful by JamesD_UK · · Score: 1

    "For a number of years I have been familiar with the observation that the health of people is a decreasing function of the density of cell phones they use. More recently I discovered why the use of the cell phone has such disastrous effects, and I became convinced that the cell phone statement should be abolished from all "higher level" cultures (i.e. everywhere). At that time I did not attach too much importance to this discovery; I now submit my considerations for publication because in very recent discussions in which the subject turned up, I have been urged to do so."

    1. Re:From the study... Mobiles considered harmful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice try to fish for karma, but unfortunately Slashdotters are too stupid to catch the reference.

  9. Reduced cognitive function by elhondo · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is that the same as "reduced ability to stay in the same f#$@'ing lane?" or reduced ability to realize a blinker might have helped" The study probably won't tell us much. The control group probably didn't include a bunch of obnoxiously loud cell-talkers, who's cognitive abilities were in question to begin with

    1. Re:Reduced cognitive function by surprise_audit · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that the reduced cognitive function in heavy usage cellphone users is likely to be because they're thinking about a) the last call they took; or b) the call they're about to make. Couple that with the necessary derailment of any thought train when the rotten thing starts ringing, and you've got a portion of the population who couldn't run a maze any better than a three legged, blind rat...

  10. cell-phone-drivers-deserve-a-few-tumors.... by Sox2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ....a bit harsh but people driving whilst using a cell are a menace. They made it illegal in the UK to do this a while back. still occasionally see people doing it though. is any law planned for canada or us where i regularly see people doing such idiotic things as using cell and reversing round a corner at the same time?!

    1. Re: cell-phone-drivers-deserve-a-few-tumors.... by DikSeaCup · · Score: 1
      Let's remember that these are people who probably had issues operating motor vehicles before cell phones.

      Adding another variable can't be good.

    2. Re: cell-phone-drivers-deserve-a-few-tumors.... by TheRealSync · · Score: 1

      Only a bit harsh?!? I agree that people driving whilst using a cell are a menace, but I do not go around hoping they get cancer and die.

      Your statement is totaly out of proportions, and I think you should rethink your argument.

      --
      -- A good compromise leaves everyone mad. --Calvin and Hobbes
    3. Re: cell-phone-drivers-deserve-a-few-tumors.... by LewsTherinKinslayer · · Score: 1

      is any law planned for canada or us where i regularly see people doing such idiotic things as using cell and reversing round a corner at the same time?!

      I live in NY state in the US, and here it IS illegal due to state law. I still see people doing it all the time unfortunately.

    4. Re: cell-phone-drivers-deserve-a-few-tumors.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah I live in NYC and a week ago I had a bus driver talking on a Cell phone for the entire trip. I notice drivers using those "push to talk" cells because of less chance of getting caught.

    5. Re: cell-phone-drivers-deserve-a-few-tumors.... by Sox2 · · Score: 0

      "cell-phone-drivers-deserve-a-few-tumors" is not my statement. read the original post.

    6. Re: cell-phone-drivers-deserve-a-few-tumors.... by deadhammer · · Score: 1

      I believe it's illegal here in Ontario, although a federal law would certainly help drive the point home.

      --
      I'll be honest, we're throwing science against the wall to see what sticks. -Cave Johnson
    7. Re: cell-phone-drivers-deserve-a-few-tumors.... by bagel2ooo · · Score: 1

      I have been very split on this. While it is very irritating to deal with, there are also plenty of asshole drivers that don't have the point of distraction showing as obviously as a cellphone. I know I have faced distraction from radio, passengers, personal maladies and the like. Unless we ban all such distractions it seems to only be a drop in the bucket of getting people to be more observant on the road.

      --
      ( o ) one could say I'm rather baked
    8. Re: cell-phone-drivers-deserve-a-few-tumors.... by Phurd+Phlegm · · Score: 1
      I live in NY state in the US, and here it IS illegal due to state law. I still see people doing it all the time unfortunately.
      If you're really worried about bad drivers, you should press for realistic standards for driving licenses. In the United States, you basically have to be breathing to get and retain a license. I suspect that I am a better driver talking on a cell phone than at least three quarters of the people on the road, because I understand that vehicle control is my primary task. If I feel I'm overloaded cognitively, I just put it down until I have a little attention to spare again. The folks on the other end just have to deal with the dead air.

      In my state, it's a rare red light that doesn't have several cars blow through it. It's a rare emergency vehicle that doesn't have some wankmaster fail to pull over. I don't see what's inherently more distracting about a cell phone than a converstation with a front-seat passenger. Or for that matter, than listening to a talk show on the radio. The real problem is people that can't split their attention between several tasks, and while we'd be a lot safer if we eliminated them from the road, it's never going to happen.

      Also, in re the "we must save people" argument that I hear justifying ridiculously-low blood alcohol standards, cell phone bans, etc.--remember that we could reduce traffic fatalitites to nearly zero by lowering the speed limit to seven miles per hour. We're talking what? Fifty thousand lives a year? Nah--let's bad cell phones!

    9. Re: cell-phone-drivers-deserve-a-few-tumors.... by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      is any law planned for canada or us where i regularly see people doing such idiotic things as using cell and reversing round a corner at the same time?!

      In the US at least, several states and/or cities have passed laws which makes it illegal to use a cellphone while driving. Some allow for the use of handsfree headsets.

      I can't imagine there's anywhere in the US where driving in reverse around a corner WOULDN'T be illegal. Pretty much the only time it's legal to operate a car in reverse gear is when maneuvering into or out of a parking space.

  11. Guess it's time to ask for hazard pay... by PornMaster · · Score: 1

    since it's a job requirement for me to carry a cell phone.

    1. Re:Guess it's time to ask for hazard pay... by lifespan · · Score: 0

      hey!! thats the same way Grandad used to justify working with asbestos... ;)

      --
      -- Howto: Get +5 (1) Whine about M$ (2) Namedrop Gentoo (3) Casually Abuse Mods (4) Namedrop Early Computer Model
  12. reduced cognitive function? by Rocketboy · · Score: 1
    suggesting negative consequences of cell phone use, from tumors to reduced cognitive function.

    There was a time when I could understand a phrase like that. 'Scuse me, my cell phone is ringing...

    1. Re:reduced cognitive function? by jthayden · · Score: 1

      suggesting negative consequences of cell phone use, from tumors to reduced cognitive function. I think they guy that wrote the article has spent too much time on his cell phone then. Lets write an article that introduces no new information and only cites a few inconclusive studies that have not been reproduced or verified.

  13. In other words by ifwm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There may be some small possible increase in potential risk. Maybe. In kids. Maybe.

    The question I have of course, is that why, out of all the studies done, is there only evidence of harm in four of them. There have been hundreds of studies, but only four get mentioned.

    The answer of course is that all the other studies fail to give the desired results.

    Show me something SUBSTANTIVE (this study is not)before you make chicken little claims. It's the responsible thing to do.

    1. Re:In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And of course, you remember that cigarette manufacturers stopped publishing studies that said there was no harm in smoking about 10 years ago...

    2. Re:In other words by Quaryon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Show me something SUBSTANTIVE (this study is not)before you make chicken little claims. It's the responsible thing to do.

      It's not quite as easy as that. If you're a government scientific advisor, you need to give warnings before absolute proof is known, because if it later turns out that there really is harm, you could have prevented a catastrophe. If there is any chance of harm, it will be happening right now to kids - should we take that chance? This guy has to make that call, which is not an easy decision either way when there is so little evidence.

      Smoking might be a good example of this - the arguments I'm hearing now remind me of similar arguments made 50 years ago about smoking "Oh, the studies aren't conclusive so it's all just scaremongering" etc.. However it's clear that if smoking had been banned a long time ago, fewer people would have died as a result.

      If you read the article, this guy is saying that he thought the same as you 5 years ago, in that there were no conclusive studies and he saw no need for alarm. He's saying that the fact there are now 4 studies which appear to show some harm implies that he needs to make it clear to people that we could indeed have a problem, and the sensible thing to do is to restrict usage for those people most vulnerable (under-8s) until we can prove it conclusively one way or the other.

      This seems to me to be a far more responsible approach than to stick your head in the sand and say "Nope, not proved 100% conclusively, can't be true.. come back when you know for certain". How responsible would it be to let a whole generation of kids grow up with an increased risk of brain tumours?

      Q.

    3. Re:In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, really. Here's MY question:

      I'm sitting at work, listening to headphones which produce electromagnetic fields (that's how speakers work, an electromagnetic field wiggles a membrane).

      How come nobody complains about the EMF we get from all the other devices around us? What about fluorescent lights (above me as I work), CRT's (in front of me while I work), power lines (everywhere, along every road and in every wall), the Earth's magnetic field...

      I could go on, but you see what I mean?

    4. Re:In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Your reasoning isn't quite the correct approach to use in risk analysis. An example of something more immediatelly fatal will serve to illustrate :D

      Step 1:
      Get two hundred people to space themselves out in a large field - a football stadium will do for this.

      Step 2:
      Get someone with a sub-machine gun and two hundered bullets, and put them waaay up in the stands. They should be a very poor shot with a gun.

      Step 3:
      Get the armed person to randomly "spray" bullets down the field.

      OK - now to analyse the little experiment. Let's say only FOUR people were hit by bullets.

      You could, using your reasoning, conclude that guns/bullets were not harmful in this situation.

      I think you get the idea....

    5. Re:In other words by bilby727 · · Score: 1

      Sorry AC but people _do_ complain about the EMF from flourescent lights, CRTs and powerlines. They are all possible health risks. It is usually assumed that the earth's magnetic field is not harmful since we have evolved with it around us for millions of years. Main-made electromagnetic fields have only been around for a hundred years or so at the most.

    6. Re:In other words by ifwm · · Score: 1

      "If you read the article"

      I did read the article. Why would you assume I didn't? I know this is slashdot, but I'm not one of the idiots who posts without thinking or reading.

      As for the rest of your post, you said nothing I hadn't already thought about. What you failed to do is address MY point, that it is irresponsible to make these claims with what is essentially NO proof.

      "How responsible would it be to let a whole generation of kids grow up with an increased risk of brain tumours?"

      Way to change the subject. This has nothing to do with kids or brian tumors, but rather science. You have focused on the specifics of this case, which are irrelevant. The point was this scientist neeeds to have real evidence, of which there is currently little or none, before making potentially damaging claims like this.

      I never said absolute proof (you said that) but rather "something SUBSTANTIVE". We don't have that, and I maintain it's irresponsible to announce something like this based on speculation.

    7. Re:In other words by runderwo · · Score: 1
      However it's clear that if smoking had been banned a long time ago, fewer people would have died as a result.
      How's that? You assume that fewer people will smoke under prohibition. Obviously, if you look at the history of alcohol and drug prohibition, that is not a reasonable assumption.
    8. Re:In other words by ifwm · · Score: 1

      "You could, using your reasoning..."

      No you couldn't, unless you were a moron.

      My point, which you failed to address, was that "SUBSTANTIVE" evidence is required before making claims like this. We have nothing that could in any way be called substantial, but still the claims were made.

      That, by any standard, is irresponsible.

      As for the rest, arguing by analogy is both useless and stupid.

    9. Re:In other words by Sven+Tuerpe · · Score: 1
      However it's clear that if smoking had been banned a long time ago, fewer people would have died as a result.

      Not true. In the long run, the exact same number would have died.

      --
      http://erichsieht.wordpress.com/category/english/
    10. Re:In other words by GlenRaphael · · Score: 1
      However it's clear that if smoking had been banned a long time ago, fewer people would have died as a result.
      How's that? You assume that fewer people will smoke under prohibition. Obviously, if you look at the history of alcohol and drug prohibition, that is not a reasonable assumption.
      Several states actually did ban smoking in the years prior to alcohol prohibition. (This isn't as well known as alcohol prohibition because it wasn't done at the national level.) Just as with alcohol prohibition, the increased crime and smuggling led to costs in excess of benefits, and the experiment was ultimately abandoned.
      --
      I play Nerd-Folk!
    11. Re:In other words by AxelBoldt · · Score: 1
      I maintain it's irresponsible to announce something like this based on speculation.

      It would be irresponsible not to announce something, based on the speculation that the four studies cited are all wrong.

    12. Re:In other words by RedWizzard · · Score: 1
      You assume that fewer people will smoke under prohibition. Obviously, if you look at the history of alcohol and drug prohibition, that is not a reasonable assumption.
      Prohibition of a substance when the majority of the users don't see any harm is one thing. Prohibition when there is clear harm is another. In my country tabacco advertising was made illegal several years ago. There has been a resulting drop in the number of smokers. It is not at all unreasonable to conclude that a prohibition on smoking would result in a further drop in the number of smokers.
    13. Re:In other words by RedWizzard · · Score: 1
      This has nothing to do with kids or brian tumors, but rather science. You have focused on the specifics of this case, which are irrelevant. The point was this scientist neeeds to have real evidence, of which there is currently little or none, before making potentially damaging claims like this.
      This scientist has reviewed the studies in question (whereas you, I am certain, have not), and concluded that there is more evidence than there was 5 years ago. Because there is the potential for a great deal of harm, this report has been issued pointing out that there are possible risks. That is all reasonable and responsible. You seem to think that the potential for harm shouldn't be a factor in the decision to make a statement like this, that is a very dangerous attitude.
    14. Re:In other words by lyphorm · · Score: 1

      It is usually assumed that the earth's magnetic field is not harmful since we have evolved with it around us for millions of years.

      People have been dying for millions of years. Maybe it's the earth's magnetic field.

      --
      ______-___--_-__-_---_-----__-_-___-_-_---_-----_- __--_____
    15. Re:In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Show me something SUBSTANTIVE (this study is not)before you make chicken little claims."

      OK. Australia's major telco, Telstra, released the results of a study into the heating effects from mobile phones back in 2000. No heating effects were found, so the study concluded that the phones are safe.

      What wasn't mentioned in the summary (and nobody in the press bothered to read the body of the study, so it wasn't reported) was that all of the mice used in the trial died of cancer. Not a few; not some; not most; ALL OF THEM.

      Make what you will of that.

    16. Re:In other words by Quaryon · · Score: 1

      You assume that fewer people will smoke under prohibition.

      Actually my choice of "smoking was banned" was not quite what I meant to say - a better choice of words would have been something like "if the dangers of smoking had been made apparent back in the 60s, rather than being covered up by the tobacco manufacturers". See, a lot of people did not get access to information relating to smoking being harmful and that may just have swayed some of them. I'm sure fewer people smoke in western countries today than did back then, due to more information being available about the side effects.

      The analogy I want to draw is that, just as with smoking, we have a bunch of people saying "Oh, I will go ahead and do it anyway because the evidence is not strong enough yet" while we have a government scientist saying "well, in the last few years there has been at least a tiny amount of evidence that it might be harmful, so I'm recommending caution for now.."

      As with smoking, I'm sure that public demand will cause most people to ignore the scientific advice, but at least on this issue we've been clearly warned.

      On no account am I recommending a ban on mobile phones, by the way, I don't want anyone to misinterpret my original post in that way.

      Q.

    17. Re:In other words by Quaryon · · Score: 1

      As for the rest of your post, you said nothing I hadn't already thought about. What you failed to do is address MY point, that it is irresponsible to make these claims with what is essentially NO proof.


      So how responsible is it to ignore a potential danger? Surely the right thing to do here is to assess the risk. If there is any risk, however small, you have to make that information available to the public. This scientist has weighed all the available evidence, and has decided that yes, there is just enough information available now (where there wasn't 5 years ago) to make it clear that this could be a real problem. He's not saying that there is conclusive proof (in fact quite the opposite, I think), but he's saying there is enough evidence about to warrant caution.

      That, to me, is the responsible approach in this case.

      Q.

  14. Read the article by Zebbers · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There is no real proof of anything.

    One ten-year study in Sweden suggests that heavy mobile users are more prone to non-malignant tumours in the ear and brain while a Dutch study had suggested changes in cognitive function. A German study has hinted at an increase in cancer around base stations, while a project supported by the EU had shown evidence of cell damage from fields typical of those of mobile phones.

    Absolutely nothing concrete, just enough to get these researchers more funding. I read about this yesterday and really all they were saying is that since children are more subsceptible to these kinds of risks that they shouldn't give cell phones to children under eight. Well...I wouldn't give them one for other reasons, not for some off chance they might have a higher risk of cancer.

    I was going to submit this story but then I read a few copies of it, realized it was meaningless and didn't. I guess the editors thought better ;)

  15. I think the study misses some facts: by HungSoLow · · Score: 1

    If you consider the types of people who use cell phones excessively for recreational use (ie. simply calling someone to chat while they're bored riding the bus/in class/at work on break) they probably aren't the healthiest people in other aspects of their lives. Maybe I'm generalizing here, but I think there's some truth to how to live your life in one domain affects the other domains in your life. But seriously, what kind of parent would buy a cell phone that their kids can use at will? I think every kid should have a cell phone, because it's an amazing safety device, but it should NOT be used for casual conversation. I guess what I'm trying to say is there might be a lifestyle issue involved with the cellphone talkers that cause cognitive issues and/or tumors (such as lack of exercise, poor eating habits, emotional issues, etc.)

    1. Re:I think the study misses some facts: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "
      I think every kid should have a cell phone, because it's an amazing safety device, but it should NOT be used for casual conversation.
      "

      Go ahead, give a 13 year old a cell phone and then tell 'em not to use it. No, really. I wanna see what happens.

  16. And this is more harmful than what? by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I realize that children are more sensitive to certain environmental issues than adults; however, I simply cannot believe that occasional cell phone usage is really that damaging.

    Look at computer usage. Are these people actually trying to say that occasional cell phone use puts out more radiation than that new 3.2 GHz Pentium with the 21" monitor and wireless network that daddy bought? What about a house like mine with eight computers and five monitors of 17" or more? We're in an enclosed area (the house) with all of these gadgets putting out electromagnetic radiation like crazy, but yet I need to be concerned about my 4-year-old talking to grandma on my cell phone for five minutes when we're out in the back yard? Uh, huh.

    I guess that I should not be concerned about those power lines that are going over the house either since the new threat is the milliwatt radiation from the cell phone. Never mind those cell phone or microwave towers that I can see over on the mountainside, either.

    Cell phone radiation. The new, over-hyped issue du jour. Can I offer anyone that miraculous oat bran to fight off that cancer while they use their cell phone?

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
    1. Re:And this is more harmful than what? by Alan+Cox · · Score: 1

      Computer monitors are linked to the same kind of effects. Thats why Sweden introduced MPR-II radiation rules for monitor displays (which have since been tightened up).

      There is also ongoing concern about police using radar guns having apparently higher rates of brain cancer.

      In terms of scale of power however a cellphone is putting out a ton more than the wireless network. The cellphone can peak at 5Watts or so the wireless network is a tiny tiny fraction of that - and the effect on you is non linear so amplifying the distance.

      The majority of recommendations I've seen are much more mundane - don't let small children use a cellphone a lot, don't put masts near homes/schools, don't chew your phone while talking 8)

      Even if it was a big issue in the future we know that moving theantenna makes a big difference. Radio Amateurs regularly work with 400W (which is enough that touching the cable can give you RF burns) but with the antenna located some distance from the user nobody has any literature or great piece of evidence on harm. The same is true of CB users who are putting out similar power to a mobile phone but at different frequency ranges and generally with the antenna at some distance.

    2. Re:And this is more harmful than what? by Nightlight3 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Are these people actually trying to say that occasional cell phone use puts out more radiation than that new 3.2 GHz Pentium

      Radiation intensity is inversly proportional to the square of distance from the source. If your Pentium is 30 times farther from your brain than your cell phone, your brain is getting around 1000 times smaller proportion of the Pentium's radiation than that of the cell phone.

      (I wonder if any physics is being taught at schools any more? Or would that put too much pressure on the self-esteem of the little ones.)

    3. Re:And this is more harmful than what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (I wonder if any physics is being taught at schools any more? Or would that put too much pressure on the self-esteem of the little ones.)

      I voluntarily opted for four years of Latin, thank you. :P Trying to fight through the concepts of mitochondria, cellular mitosis, and so forth killed the whole science route for me in high school, the next step of which would have been physics. Do forgive the youth for not living up to your expectations on scientific knowledge.

    4. Re:And this is more harmful than what? by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      No that is because a CRT is actually not much different from an X-Ray tube, and without loads of lead in the glass would be spitting out a load of X-Rays. The MPR-II regulations basically set a limit on the amount of *IONIZING* radiation that a monitor can give out.

      Cell phones use microwaves and microwaves are non-ionizing radiation, and *NOBODY* in over 50 years of trying has managed to devise a reprodicable experiment that demonstrates any harmful effect of non-ionizing radiation (well unless you get enough microwaves to cook you).

      Whoopy we have a few more unrepeated experiments that show some minor effects. I would lay odds that when they are repeated the results turn out to be statistical flukes, and show no effect.

      The golden rule of all science is that it most be independantly repetable. Unless you can satisfy this it is just junk science. You would have thought if there was any effects someone would have found them by now with thousands of experiments over 50 years.

    5. Re:And this is more harmful than what? by Eil · · Score: 1

      Next time, try more sarcasm.

    6. Re:And this is more harmful than what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next time, try more wit.

    7. Re:And this is more harmful than what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's more danger in sitting in front of a computer monitor than the radiation that it spits out. If you spend lots of time in front of the computer drinking Mountain Dew, eating pizza and chips, and not moving much, you're probably looking at a much higher risk of developing obesity,diabetes,and high blood pressure than you are of any effects from the radiation.

      Which reminds me, time to take my medication.

    8. Re:And this is more harmful than what? by RedWizzard · · Score: 1
      Cell phones use microwaves and microwaves are non-ionizing radiation, and *NOBODY* in over 50 years of trying has managed to devise a reprodicable experiment that demonstrates any harmful effect of non-ionizing radiation (well unless you get enough microwaves to cook you).
      Actually there is plenty of evidence, though nothing conclusive, that non-ionizing radiation may have non-thermal effects on biological systems. Do some research and you'll see.
      Whoopy we have a few more unrepeated experiments that show some minor effects. I would lay odds that when they are repeated the results turn out to be statistical flukes, and show no effect.
      Paraphrased from the article:
      "A study in Sweden has shown that acoustic neuromas are twice as common in mobile phone users, and were also four times as common on the side of the head where the phone was held".
      Does that really sound likely to be a "statistical fluke" to you? Does a condition requiring surgery to prevent deafness really sound like a "minor effect" to you?
      The golden rule of all science is that it most be independantly repetable. Unless you can satisfy this it is just junk science. You would have thought if there was any effects someone would have found them by now with thousands of experiments over 50 years.
      The correlations that these studies are claiming should be verifiable in other populations, true, however you have not presented any evidence that these studies have been discredited. Until someone can produce that evidence you have to accept that the correlations may be real. To do otherwise is foolish.
  17. What about other cordless phones? by Gadgetfreak · · Score: 1

    They've been around for years, but to my awareness, I've only heard people argue that cell phones will fry your brain.
    I have a difficult time seeing how someone can really do a scientific study when societies as a whole adopt wireless electronics across the board, not just cell phones.

    --
    "No fair, you changed the outcome by measuring it!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
    1. Re:What about other cordless phones? by coofercat · · Score: 2, Informative

      The reason people pick on mobile phones is because they (sometimes) use a relatively large amount of electromagnetic power to communicate with the base station (perhaps several hundred metres away). This is in contrast to cordless phones which have a range of a few metres, so use far less power (also, you probably don't carry your cordless around all day).

      You have to remember that mobile phones change the power they use to transmit depending on signal strength. Ironically, if you live near a base station, your phone will be less harmful to you (although of course, one could argue the base station will be beaming it's rays into you far more strongly). Also, newer phones are far, far better than old ones. The extended battery life of new phones is not all down to the batteries, it's also down to the reduced use of the transmitter (old analogue phones are really nasty, and sent some of the BT engineers bonkers within a couple of years - aledgedly).

      Something else to know: the frequencies used by mobile phones are only slightly different from microwave ovens. Given oven manufacturers have been researching using a whole raft of frequencies besides the one generally used, it would suggest that more or less any frequency would cook food (albeit with different penetration and other characteristics). So it would be reasonable to assume that the mobile phone frequency would also cook food (or your brain, skin, sperm, whatever).

      Conversely, one also has to remember that you're unlikely to be able to cook your Pot Noodle with a phone, because the power it uses is broadcast in all directions, rather than concentrated at the food (and is far lower power than a microwave oven). However, prolonged phone use, within millimetres of your brain could be construed as the same thing.

      Last bit of wisdom from me: A phone on standby uses fractions of the power used for talking. Text messaging uses a bit more power than standby, but of course only for a short period of time. A phone with no signal will keep trying to get a base station, so will be transmitting periodically (sort bursts, regularly). In other words, being asked to carry a phone (by werk, for example) is not likely to be too bad for you. Of course, once they actually call you, you're in trouble. Get a pager - being receive only they're far safer.

      Remember kids: Using your phone makes your ear get hot. Think about why that might be...?

    2. Re:What about other cordless phones? by Laurence0 · · Score: 1

      I have to reply to this... There was (an easily repeatable) experiment done recently where people held blocks of wood next to their ears as they would with a phone for half an hour or so. Strangely, their ears still got hot. The heat here comes from your head, not from the phone. However, your point about phones transmitting virtually nothing whilst you're not talking on it is very true - I had a friend who refused to carry her phone around with her all the time and left it as far away from herself as possible in her bedroom because of fears of radiation, yet still spent half an hour to an hour on it every day. I estimated that a month of having a phone nearby would get you the same amount of radiation time as 2 hours of call time, and this isn't even taking inverse square (for distance) laws into consideration.

  18. Antennas for sure more dangerous than phones by jchuillier · · Score: 2, Informative

    In France they have made a law about 2 years ago to prohibit putting GSM antennas in direct line of sight of the school windows. Apparently it's more dangerous do have an antenna in front of your window then on your roof above your head. Since my grandfather died of "juvenile leukemia" at the age of 75, in 6 months and he had one of these antennas in front of his living room window about 20m away on the roof of the next building I'd tend to be VERY careful about the antennas. Maybe someone has a link that would give the emission power of an antenna compared to a phone and the effects of the distance between the phone and you Vs the antenna and you.

    1. Re:Antennas for sure more dangerous than phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing about base station antennas, is that they are highly directional. Virtually no energy is radiated upwards, or downwards from them. This is simply a matter of economics for the networks - directing energy down to a tiny area is useless, when it could be directed out to serve customers.

      I have tested this personally by using a modified mobile phone which reported signal strength - directly below an antenna, the reported signal strength was nearly 20 dB less than that at about 10 metres.

      So, the issue is very simple - line of sight, especially if you are on the same level as the antenna will potentially give a higher exposure than if you were directly below it.

      The other issue is distance - a hand held phone is only a few centimetres from your ear and brain. A transmitter is many meters. Due to the inverse square law, the strength of the field drops of rapidly with distance. Typically, the field strength from a base station, even in direct line-of-sight, at 20 metres is thousands of times less than that from a mobile phone held against the head. If your bedroom was in direct view of such an antenna and you used your phone for 1 minute per week - you'd potentially receive more exposure from the phone, than from the antenna.

      Such an extreme example is very uncommon, and typically the general population receive several orders of magnitude more exposure from their handset than from antennas. In fact, building extra antennas in built-up areas could reduce the publics exposure to RF; the handsets have a feedback mechanism and if their transmissions are received strongly by the antenna, they will reduce their transmission power. More antennas would slightly increasing background exposure, but potentially significantly reduce exposure from handsets.

      I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather. However, 'Juvenile leukaemia' (also called ALL) is given that name because it is most common in children. It is very well recognised in adults, where it is much more serious. As age increases, so this type of leukaemia also becomes more frequent - particularly at ages older than 70 years.

      I think it very unlikely that the GSM antenna had anything to do with his illness.

  19. Must be the tumors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So that's why my kids don't listen to me...

  20. cysts have developed by Queeg500v2 · · Score: 0

    I now have cysts under my skin just above my belt line right where I carried my cell phone for years. They started getting painful and since I stopped carrying my phone on my belt the pain has stopped. Coincidence? I think not. I treat my phone like a loaded gun now.

    1. Re:cysts have developed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i used to carry my motorola v60 in my pocket for 8+ hours straight... for quite awhile i had a rash right where the cell phone would touch my leg.

    2. Re:cysts have developed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a similar experience. My Treo 600 when carried in my front left pants pocket left me with an itching burn/rash. After I stopped carrying it in my pocket the itch took about 2 months to go away.

    3. Re:cysts have developed by RicoX9 · · Score: 1

      Clothing will "breathe a certain amount. The cell casing is going to trap a lot of moisture in the cloth of your pocket. Depending on your particular physiology, this is likely due to skin irritation from blocking the sweat glands to a degree.

      Just a guess...

    4. Re:cysts have developed by narcc · · Score: 1

      Both my keyring and my zippo give me a rash when I carry them in my pants pockets -- my cellphone does as well, even when its turned off.

  21. Convergence by AtariAmarok · · Score: 0

    With all the device convergence, not only is there the danger of radiation, there is the danger of being killed by a Koopa turtle, the danger of hearing naughty rap lyrics, and the danger of receiving really ugly photos.

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
  22. Very silly report... by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 1

    So FOUR out of HUNDREDS of studies have found "some correlation". To my mind, that proves that there is NO correlation. ------------- For those of you that don't get it, let's do a thought experiment. Let's say 100 researchers do independent studies of tumor incidence versus shoe color. Let's assume they don't have any bias either way, either intentional or not. A certain percentage are going to find some correlation, just due to the laws of statistics. Just a guess, but I suspect at least 4% will find some correlation. Repeat the same study this time comparing against underwear color, and probably another 4% correlation. As you can see, 4% doesnt mean ANYTHING. Except maybe the opposite of what you were investigating.

    1. Re:Very silly report... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      maybe so, but if the studies are different from each other.. then maybe four found something that the other ones were flawed at finding.

    2. Re:Very silly report... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But this isn't a correlation between two random, unrelated things. They are correleating between (a) a known source of high-powered electromagnetic radiation and (b) tissue that is *known* to be "cookable" with said types of radiation.

      The issue is _specifically_ "does mobile phone radiation cook tissue?" - which is of course still an open debate despite this studys results.

      You're argument was a straw man - the study as presented did _not_ assume a wild "a priori" correlation...

  23. Misleading Headline by Espo_SHIZ · · Score: 1

    When the study in question pertains only to children, please state so.

  24. But tumors are good for you.... by Himring · · Score: 1, Funny

    In particular, the NRPB's report lists four studies suggesting negative consequences of cell phone use, from tumors to reduced cognitive function.

    But tumors make you smarter, and are a great source of protein....

    --
    "All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
  25. Reduced cogitive ability and other health effects by lheal · · Score: 1, Funny

    Symptoms include:

    - Permanently crooked neck

    - Both ears flattened to skull

    - The inability to keep from shouting "Can you hear me?" in public.

    - Frequent facial contusions and other signs of fisticuffs

    - Increased risk of winding up with your Camry under a bus

    --
    Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
  26. Umm... use a headset by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Use a corded headset and put the phone nearby on the table/desk/whatever. Problem solved. The little radiation device this article is making cell phones out to be is away from your head/body and you can still use it.

    1. Re:Umm... use a headset by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The corded headset actually results in MORE radiation directed to your skull - the wire acts as an antenna.

      Better to get one of the new hands-free cell phones (the ones with the built-in speaker-phone).

      Also, try to get a flip-phone instead of a straight-body phone. Your antenna is further from the head with a flip.

    2. Re:Umm... use a headset by UpnAtom · · Score: 1

      What if it is a Bluetooth headset?

    3. Re:Umm... use a headset by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      What if it is a Bluetooth headset?
      Then you look like some idiot in a breathmint commercial, trying to look "cool" or "hip" or "with it" and failing miserably ... can't remember the name of the gum its for, which shows just how ineffective some advertising is.
    4. Re:Umm... use a headset by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Actually, if the wire from the headset TOUCHES the Antenna, THEN it acts as an amplifier for the antenna. Some phones have built in antennas ("candy bar" shaped phones). Make sure the headset wire is not touching any part of the phone except at the headset jack.

      In most cases, using a wired headset is the way to go as long as the headset wire does not touch the antenna.

      Bluetooth - jury is still out. There's a low power radio in the headset which is pressed right next to your brain. Doesnt sound good, but I havent seen any studies on the Bluetooth headsets. I plan to stay away from them for a while.

      If it matters, I used to work for a Telecom company.

  27. If it turns out to be true... by Moby+Cock · · Score: 1

    If it turns out the cell phones are harmful to grey matter, teeth or whatever. I wonder if there will be some serious blowback in the courts. The situation I envisage would be employers being held liable for having their employees use cell phones. I have had to use one with work, although I don't have one myself. That would open a Pandora's Box since there are literally hundreds of millions of people who are at risk if they turn out to be unsafe. The fall out would be unbelievable.

    As for the premise of safety: it is well and truly up in the air. We just plain do not know if cell phone are harmful or not. The problem is extraordinarily difficult to solve due to the complexities of the models. The general sense I get in the field is that it is not good and if you can avoid a cell phone do so. Its like sticking you head in a microwave on low power for a few minutes 20 times a day.

    1. Re:If it turns out to be true... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree but this was a study on children under 8. I don't think we'll be getting too many cases of 8 yr olds forced to carry a cell while at work ;)

  28. Cell phones, this century's coffee! by gelfling · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's bad for you. Yes it's bad, no wait, it might be bad, no it's ok, really it is, we think, or not. Nope it really is bad. Or maybe not or it's good or it's ok in moderation. We think that it's, no it's bad. Really bad, really really bad. Oh edit that, it's probably ok, we think, yeah definitely.

    1. Re:Cell phones, this century's coffee! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Believe it or not, some geeks can't take caffeine without feeling like they'll have a heart attack.

      So now you just gave me a reason not to buy a cell phone either, by linking it with the evil witch brew.

  29. How do mobile phones affect people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Non-ionising electromagnetic radiation (that's light , infra red and radio waves) is dangerous when it is neither too strongly nor too weakly absorbed by our bodies. Radio waves basically go straight through us. Light basically gets absorbed in the top fraction of mm of skin (but strong IR or light will damage you: its called 'a burn' i.e. cells are killed by heating). Microwaves used by mobile phones(about 1 GHz are potentially dangerous because they are totally absorbed by our bodies within a few cm of the surface. Thus exposing yourself to this radiation you are heating the inside of your brain. There are two key safety questions 1. How much is this heating effect (the SAR figure) and 2. Are there any other non-thermal effects of the radiation.

    The answer to 1. is provided by the SAR figure of the phone. Typically a phone will have 1 W/kg. i.e. on average it dumps one watt of power into 1 kg of nearby brain matter. This is not alot (think of holding a small torch by your ear and think about the heating effect of that) but one the other hand brains are uniquely sensitive organs. Temperature rises are probably hundredths of a degree celsius, but its hard to measure.

    The answer to 2. is that no non-thermal effects have survived double blind testing.

    The SAR dose from Masts is many orders of magnitude lower than that from handsets.

    All the best

    Michael

    1. Re:How do mobile phones affect people by Eil · · Score: 1

      I always thought the main danger to radiation (low-intensity, long-term at any rate) was that it was known to damage DNA.

    2. Re:How do mobile phones affect people by Hal-9001 · · Score: 1
      I always thought the main danger to radiation (low-intensity, long-term at any rate) was that it was known to damage DNA.
      That's true for ionizing electromagnetic radiation (UV, x-rays, etc.). Microwaves do not have sufficient energy per photon to damage DNA.
      --
      "It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
    3. Re:How do mobile phones affect people by shostiru · · Score: 1
      The answer to 2. is that no non-thermal effects have survived double blind testing.

      other than VLF suppression of dim-light melatonin onset, you mean? Radio waves of various frequences are known to affect chemical reactions -- albeit in fairly subtle ways.

  30. Good article on radiation from cell phones by usurper_ii · · Score: 1

    This is a good and, I think, fair article on radiation from cell phones:

    You can find this article at:

    http://www.alternativemedicine.com/ and search
    for cell phone. The name of the article is "You
    Make The Call."

    -=-=-=
    Studies show that people who don't think cell phones have adverse health effects need to have their heads examined.

    -=-=-=-

    Cell phones are not just here to stay. They have evolved into ever more versatile and powerful devices and have become indispensable to our way of life. Why, then, can't we make these technological marvels safe?

    Of course, according to the cell phone industry, cell phones are perfectly harmless: "After a substantial amount of research, scientists and governments around the world continue to reaffirm that there is no public health threat from the use of wireless phones," says Tom Wheeler, president and CEO of the Cellular Telecommunications & Internet Association (CTIA).

    According to numerous prominent researchers, that statement is nonsense. Henry Lai, Ph.D., is a research professor of bioengineering at the University of Washington. Over the last several years he has conducted cell phone studies funded originally by the U.S. Navy and Air Force and later by the National Institutes of Health. "I have a list of about 600 research papers from the past ten years alone, 70 percent of which show definite effects from exposure to this kind of radiation," says Lai, "but the industry continues to say that there is nothing to worry about."

    What about cell phones and cancer, the most publicized concern? "Studies have been conducted to determine whether there is an association between cellular telephone use and an increased risk of certain types of cancer," according to the National Cancer Institute (NCI). "Although the majority of these studies have not supported any such association, scientists caution that more research needs to be done before conclusions can be drawn about the risk of cancer from cellular telephones."

    "More research" is the mantra of all three groups - industry, government and scientists - each with their differing motives. And, in fact, more research is needed - but not to prove that cell phones do pose a health threat: That has been proven beyond any doubt. Swedish researcher Clas Tegenfeld, who is writing a book on biological effects of electromagnetic fields, says "Already there are at least 15,000 scientific reports on the subject. I am afraid the truth is that we don't want to know."

    There have, in fact, been several studies that show no correlation between cell phone use and cancer. These studies were conducted by respected institutions and researchers and the results published in peer-reviewed journals. However, these were all simple statistical studies that compared the incidence of brain cancer among cell phone users to that of the general population. Typical of these studies is an oft-cited one from Sweden that was published in the July 1999 issue of the International Journal of Oncology. According to the NCI, "This study compared cellular telephone use in a group of 209 individuals who had brain tumors (the case group) with a group of 425 people without brain cancer (the control group). The study reported a statistically nonsignificant increased risk for brain tumors on the side of the head on which the cellular telephone was used. However, researchers found no overall increase in the risk for brain tumors with cellular telephone use."

    Does this prove that cell phone use does not lead to increased risk of brain cancer? No. As the NCI itself points out, "Cancers that take a long time to develop would not have been detected by these studies." What has been shown in numerous studies, however, is that the radiation coming from cell phones does have measurable effects on brain cells that can lead to cancer, as well as neurological diseases.

    Lai's experiments are instructive in this regard. One of his main findings was that radiation from cell phones at levels b

    1. Re:Good article on radiation from cell phones by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Insightful
      > his is a good and, I think, fair article on radiation from cell phones:
      >You can find this article at:
      >http://www.alternativemedicine.com/ and search for cell phone.

      Here's my "alternative" article:

      Seven warning signs of bogus science and Distinguishing science and pseudoscience".

      > Why, then, can't we make these technological marvels safe?

      "Pseudoscience begins with a hypothesis -- usually one which is appealing emotionally, and spectacularly implausible -- and then looks only for items which appear to support it."

      > Of course, according to the cell phone industry, cell phones are perfectly harmless:

      "2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his or her work."

      > "I have a list of about 600 research papers from the past ten years alone, 70 percent of which show definite effects from exposure to this kind of radiation," says Lai, "but the industry continues to say that there is nothing to worry about."

      "2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his or her work."

      > What about cell phones and cancer, the most publicized concern? "Studies have been conducted to determine whether there is an association between cellular telephone use and an increased risk of certain types of cancer," according to the National Cancer Institute (NCI). "Although the majority of these studies have not supported any such association, scientists caution that more research needs to be done before conclusions can be drawn about the risk of cancer from cellular telephones."

      OK, the only factual information here is that most studies do not support the alleged link.

      > "Already there are at least 15,000 scientific reports on the subject. I am afraid the truth is that we don't want to know."

      "2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his or her work."

      and a little bit of

      "Pseudoscience attempts to persuade with rhetoric, propaganda, and misrepresentation rather than valid evidence (which presumably does not exist)."

      > What has been shown in numerous studies, however, is that the radiation coming from cell phones does have measurable effects on brain cells that can lead to cancer, as well as neurological diseases.

      3. The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection.

      > Says Lai, "Cumulative damages in DNA may in turn affect cell functions. DNA damage that accumulates in cells over a period of time may be the cause of slow onset diseases, such as cancer."

      3. The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection.

      > However, the researcher explains, because nerve cells do not divide, they are less likely than other cells to become cancerous, which is typified by uncontrolled replication. Instead, if a brain cell accumulates too much DNA damage, it would more likely die. "Cumulative damage in DNA in cells also has been shown during aging," notes Lai. "Particularly, cumulative DNA damage in nerve cells of the brain has been associated with neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's, Huntington's, and Parkinson's diseases."

      Pseudoscience makes extraordinary claims and advances fantastic theories that contradict what is known about nature.

      Pseudoscientific "explanations" tend to be by scenario.

      (If he can't prove cancer, he'll make up a scenario and a completely new hypothesis for the causes of these other diseases that existed before cell phones!)

      > [ ... ] This study is especially significant because Hardell is a key witness in an $800 million lawsuit brought by Peter Angelos against the mobile phone industry. (Angelos is the la

  31. just another propaganda campaign by snarkasaurus · · Score: 0

    Oh joy, another propaganda campaign. File this one next to global warming, frankenfood, DDT, "the coming death of the Web" and gun control in the circular bin.

    You can always tell a BS campaign by the way they say "there's no proof, but just in case..." to justify their vaporous musings.

    Couldn't these people find something useful to do?

    1. Re:just another propaganda campaign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's BS about global warming?

  32. The only part that probably isn't pure hype... by JeffTL · · Score: 0

    ...is the bit on reduced cognitive function -- just look at all the idiotic drivers with cell phones in their ears.

  33. The Truth is Meaningless Anyway by ajs318 · · Score: 1

    The truth is meaningless. Even if you shove the truth in someone's face where they shouldn't be able to ignore it, they will ignore it anyway if they want to believe something different. People will believe what they want to believe even when they know it to be untrue. Now, for some reason, people in this country want to believe that things they enjoy are bad for them. People enjoy sending text messages and talking on the phone; therefore they naturally expect there to be some sort of harmful consequence to the use of a telephone.

    Some people probably are susceptible to non-ionising radiation, and a lot of people are less {or not at all} susceptible. And given time, natural selection probably will take care of that; the susceptible ones won't be so likely to pass on their susceptible gene {due to being dead, or infertile due to non-ionising radiation} as the immune ones are to pass on theirs.

    The real guestion is: where do you draw the line between allergy and poisoning?

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    1. Re:The Truth is Meaningless Anyway by lifespan · · Score: 0

      I would think the other way around. People are so enamoured with the convenience of their mobile phones they can't accept any bad news about them. If you've lived through tobacco, asbestos, DDT and the host of other poisonous products that business continued to sell while lying about serious side effects, you're probably a little cynical too. One thing that does deserve mention is that in the past it was common practise for scumcorps to fund and release a mountain of studies supporting their lies. This mountain was used to bury the legitimate independent studies that clearly showed how venomous these products were. That is what makes the "every scientist in the world doesn't agree it's bad so it must be good" argument so frustrating. Independent trials are the ONLY ones that can be trusted, unless you already know the result you want! ;)

      --
      -- Howto: Get +5 (1) Whine about M$ (2) Namedrop Gentoo (3) Casually Abuse Mods (4) Namedrop Early Computer Model
    2. Re:The Truth is Meaningless Anyway by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      If non-ionising radiation at mobile phone strength actually caused tissue damage, there would be evidence of this. There isn't, because it doesn't. Scientists have been experimenting with RF energy at much higher power levels for many years. Still the greatest danger to living things comes from the fact that if RF energy is absorbed by matter, it will be converted to heat.

      Most tissue damage is pretty well recoverable anyway. DNA contains the instructions for copying itself, wrapped in a complex error-checking and correcting system. Any sufficiently slight change is recoverable: if a "faulty" cell is still able to reproduce itself, the next generation of cells will contain the correct code, and if it can't reproduce itself at all, the duff code dies out. It's actually very hard indeed to get a severe enough mutation that the new DNA code is viable and auto-corrects itself to something different than the host organism's DNA and for enough of these mutant cells to form, so much faster than the host organism's immune system can deal with them, that they establish themselves as a living organism in its own right. This is what we call cancer. It is known that ionising radiation can cause DNA mutation: one way of treating cancer is to bombard the cancer cells with ionising radiation, both to kill them off and cause unviable DNA mutations so that the cancer cannot grow. Non-ionising radiation does not have this effect.

      I'm not discounting the possibility that some people might be more sensitive than others to the effects of an electromagnetic field, but they are the minority -- and they're just going to have to deal with it, somehow or other.

      The fact is, even though today we are better fed, better educated, better housed and just plain better off all around than we have ever been at any time in recorded history, people prefer doom and gloom to sunshine and flowers. Show them a rose and they'll see the thorns. Show them a bird with beautiful plumage and they'll imagine it crapping over their car. Show them the ocean and they'll see themselves drowning. Show them a tree and they'll imagine a paedophile hiding behind it.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  34. yeah right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    cause ear and brain tumors are just an inconvinence

  35. If it turns out to be true... maybe Elvis lives! by snarkasaurus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is possible to prove cell phones dangerous. You do experiments to look for effects on biological systems.

    It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove them safe. One cannot prove a negative.

    However if Dr. Wantsagrant couldn't find more than four studies that even suggested a correlation, I'm thinking there's damn little chance that the feeble little radio wave coming out of that cell phone is going to cook a neuron, or even raise its temperature slightly.

    So if this turns out to be true I'll run off and join the Reformed Church of Elvis. Hey, anything's possible. Or not!

  36. Nose bleeds ;-) by Scrameustache · · Score: 0, Offtopic


    If used during a movie, it also increases the chances of me kicking you ass!
    You've been warned.

    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

  37. Not quite... by afxgrin · · Score: 1

    There's lots of facts collected on global warming, be it either naturally occuring by the earth, or due to human activity. Frankenfood - I'm concerned about that - why should we be genetically modified food and putting it into our food supply? It is very difficult to predict the fallout from putting GE food directly in the rest of our food supply. DDT has been shown to be a carcinogen. The "death of the Web" I never heard of or believed, and in regards to gun control - I'm still of mixed opinion on that one. Mostly against at this moment.

    But the question I have is: Who would benefit from this propaganda campaign?

    Researchers have yet to show that non-ionizing radiation with longer wavelengths than UV can cause cancer. The only people who would really benefit from this campaign are people who don't like cell phones. Unless someone decided to make a "low radiation" device which used less energy ... *shrug*

    Here's the Occupational Safety & Health Administration list of research papers on the biological effects of non-ionizing on cells and humans.

    1. Re:Not quite... by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      If you have ever eaten a swede, a turnip, a cabbage, a cauliflower, broccoli, a brussels sprout or anything containing rapeseed oil, then you have eaten genetically modified food. All the above are descended from a now virtually extinct plant Brassica sativa which had a fleshy root, small cabbage-like outgrowths and produced small, oily seeds. Over time, humans practising agriculture selectively bred brassica specimens for particular characteristics. Deep down underneath, they're all the same plant.

      First: note how similar the seeds of all the above mentioned plants look to the unaided eye. Second: if you place a piece of uncooked swede or turnip in water, it will grow a stem. If you cut that stem, a cabbage-like growth will form on it. Not absolute proof, obviously. But kind of interesting anyway .....

      Until you prove to me that there is a difference between genetic modification achieved through selective breeding and genetic modification achieved by direct manipulation of DNA, and describe to me a test which can determine which method was used to modify the DNA in a particular specimen, I'm prepared to assume there is no difference in health risk levels between the two processes.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    2. Re:Not quite... by bilby727 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you know of a way to selectively breed a cabbage which produces it's own pesticides? That's what they do with GMOs.

    3. Re:Not quite... by ajs318 · · Score: 1
      Perhaps you know of a way to selectively breed a cabbage which produces it's [sic] own pesticides? That's what they do with GMOs.
      All living organisms have some degree of defence against predators. I'm sure that it ought to be possible to find samples with a higher-than-average concentration of natural defensive chemicals and breed for this property.

      Genetically Modified plants have been created which are highly tolerant to certain chemicals, e.g. the neurotoxin glyphosate which is sold {not co-incidentally, by the same people who do the genetic modification and fondly imagine that they somehow own the "intellectual property" in the DNA of their GM organisms} under the proprietary name "Round-up". The idea is that you can then be less selective where you spray the stuff. Glyphosate tolerance can be achieved by selective breeding {and is speculated to have been done with coca plants; whether this is true, and if so whether it be deliberate or merely an unintended consequence of misguided US government policy which treats consenting adults like criminals and commits acts tantamount to war against sovereign nations, is a matter for debate elsewhere}.

      You still haven't properly responded to my challenge, which was to propose a test capable of determining whether an organism's DNA was altered by selective breeding or by direct manipulation.
      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    4. Re:Not quite... by bilby727 · · Score: 1

      propose a test capable of determining whether an organism's DNA was altered by selective breeding or by direct manipulation.
      I don't believe this is possible in general. The only thing that can be done is to compare a sample of an organism's DNA with known genetically modified organisms to identify whether that sample is a known genetically modified organism.

      I suppose implicit in what you are saying is that if we could produce the same end product (that we can't tell apart with tests) by selective breeding or direct manipulation then we don't have anything to worry about since no-one is questioning the safety of selective breeding. Well, as I understand it, the problem is that we can't do this. Direct genetic manipulation is not as exact a science as supporters make out.

      If we can selectively breed defensive chemicals and Round-Up resistant organisms, then we should as they are probably low risk because we are using time-tested methods. Directly modified organisms won't be the same and they belong in the lab until we understand them more.
    5. Re:Not quite... by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      If it's genuinely impossible to devise a test to determine directly-modified from selectively-bred organisms, then it follows that they are equivalent. Things that are equivalent to the same, other thing are equivalent to each other.

      Pesticide resistance certainly can be selectively bred into plants. It can take many generations, but it is most definitely possible. Some of the older weedkillers were already ineffective before they were banned! Antibiotic resistance is being bred into bacteria right now through misuse of antibiotics -- doctors are having to prescribe stronger and stronger antibiotics, especially in countries where they are available without a prescription. {That's the reason why you have to stay the course and not stop taking them as soon as you feel better -- between the antibiotics and your own immune system, you will kill off the last of the germs and thus not create "superbugs".}

      I don't have a specific problem with genetically modified organisms entering the food chain solely on the basis that they are genetically modified. If one effect of the GM process were to make them poisonous, I would be less happy ..... but I would expect that appropriate tests would be done as a matter of course. What I do have a problem with is the biotech companies' attitude to the set of artificial constructs which have come to be referred to as "intellectual property" -- as though DNA were something that could be patented. Which is not to mention that pesticide resistance isn't even a desirable quality to breed for in the first place. It would be more efficient all round to breed for pest resistance -- unless, of course, your business be to sell pesticides .....

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  38. Cell Phones and Cognitive Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could it be that the radiation from cell phones does not cause cognitive problems. Rather could it be that people who's minds are on a conversation with their friend rather than driving, walking, taking care of the kids, watching the dials on the nuclear plant, etc. just don't have enough mental acuity for the other (important) stuff. Cell phone radiation doesn't make you stupid. The use of cell phones in inappropriate situations makes you do stupid things.

  39. In the UK by the+pickle · · Score: 1

    the radiation effect is always negative?

    Because that sure seems to be the case with all the wonderful doomsday pseudoscientists. First power lines, then cell fones. Riiiiiiiiight.

    Three words for those folks:

    Non
    Ionising
    Radiation

    Look it up sometime.

    p

    1. Re:In the UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Erm, give me a case where the radiation effect is positive, or at least neutral, please.

      N
      e
      x
      t
      .

  40. On the other hand by Mr.+Cancelled · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It gives all of us who have to put up with lousy, uncaring drivers, who are chatting away on their cell phones, a little pleasure in knowing that eventually there may be fewer selfish, uncaring drivers on cell phones.

    Seriously, what is up with the cell phone craze anyway? It's almost like people are scared to be alone with their thoughts anymore.

    You all know the types... As soon as they're outside a building, their cell phone's in their hand. You see them talking in cars as they swerve in and out of lanes. You see them talking in the movie theaters, in line at the store...

    It's almost like people have to validate their existence now through talking on the phone. It s sad really... And very annoying to many of us who have to put up with the selfish behavior of the average cell phone addict.

    And as far as the kids go... Drudge has a link to an article on this subject, and the article is accompanied by a child talking on a cell phone with a Winnie the Pooh cover.

    If studies such as these are accurate, cell phone manufacturers should have the same kind of accountability as cigarette manufacturers did, with regards to targeting kids.

    In fact, I'm almost surprised we haven't seen Joe Camel brought back to hawk brightly colored, kid-oriented phones.

    1. Re:On the other hand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Seriously, what is up with the cell phone craze anyway? It's almost like people are scared to be alone with their thoughts anymore."

      When humans stop talking their brains start working, which is deeply frightening to most humans, thus they try to spend as much time as possible talking. (I believe Douglas Adams covered this in HHG)

  41. One way to express the issue: by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 3, Insightful


    A way to express the issue is this. Well-understood calculations of the physics of low-power radio waves show that the power that reaches the brain is less than the power in the same frequency range that is there due to the energy of room-temperature heat.

    Anyone who can show that biological processes interact with such low-power electromagnetic waves will have found a new kind of interaction between matter and energy, and can confidently expect to win a Nobel Prize.

    Since there are a lot of people who would like to win a Nobel Prize, and since such people have not shown such interaction, we can assume that the issue is not taken seriously by real scientists.

    The same issue has been raised several times in regards to possible dangers sitting in front of a CRT computer monitor, and in regards to living underneath power lines.

    Statistics shows that statistically improbable things happen frequently, because there are millions of possible statistically improbable possibilities. People who don't know that get worried about "cancer clusters".

    1. Re:One way to express the issue: by museumpeace · · Score: 1
      The filtering that takes place before these stories come to our attention is perhaps understandable but far from helpful...The Swedish study is cited in TFA as finding that heavy cell phone use doubles one's chances of getting a Acoustic Neuroma. DOUBLE! That sounds pretty damn significant whether you are trained in statistics or not. But I suppose they would lose readers if they pointed out the limitations of the study as do somewhat less sales&readership-driven sources. An even scarrier way to exerpt the study results:
      When the side of the head where the phone was held was taken into consideration, the tumor risk was almost four times higher for the side where the phone was held and normal for the other side.
      Both of these sources also point out broader contexts which render the study far from conclusive:
      • general rise in cell phone use should have corresponding rise in these neuromas but that is not observed.
      • Only analog phone use was studied but most cell phone use now is digital
      • The neuroma in question is typically so slow growing that many people carry them around undiagnosed for years. [i.e. if they had done the expensive MRI scan on the 600 "healthy" control subjects, they might have to adjust their numbers]
      • A well identified genetic defect is known to cause the neuromas spontaneously
      It is annoying that the most widely available news sources are the ones we can trust the least, requiring us to dig up the context and filter out their tendency to sensationalize. IMHO there is some smoke but we are by no means all on fire.
      --
      SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
    2. Re:One way to express the issue: by bilby727 · · Score: 1

      It is time to wake up to the fact that these studies show that there are mechanisms at work other than heating effects. If these studies are correct, then it is wrong to say "people have not shown such interaction".

    3. Re:One way to express the issue: by vipw · · Score: 1

      Wow, instead of 1 person per 100000 with Acoustic Neuroma there would be 2! Prevalence rate. If you consider the number of cases it starts sounding insignificant again. In conclusion, doubling the chance of a completely obscure and benign cancer is nothing I would care about.

    4. Re:One way to express the issue: by thebudgie · · Score: 1

      The difference between 1 in 100000 and 1 in 50000 appears huge to the average person...

    5. Re:One way to express the issue: by Deideldorfer · · Score: 0

      Some phones are filthy, and people stick that right against their ear. I doubt that any studies have taken into account the possibility of phone germs causing some diseases.

      Remember what happened when they shipped all the phone sanitizers off-planet?

      --

      Power off before disconnecting connecting connector. Seen on a cash register
  42. Laugh at me, I'm paranoid by OwlWhacker · · Score: 1

    Whenever I send a text message, I hold the phone as far away from me as possible, turn my head away from it, and mutter "cancer, cancer, cancer... etc." until it's done.

    Obviously I don't do that when I'm talking on the phone, otherwise the conversation would be pointless.

  43. Re:you're an idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Fuck sakes, did you ever think the rash might be due to chafing, not cell phone death rays? Pin head!

    There is one of the 12 yr olds now! wow...youth....I miss it but I really don't miss the attitude of the other 12 yr olds.

  44. Hah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashdotters: Global warming is REAL folks!

    Slashdottters: Nah cell phones can't be harmless...

    You know it's true...

  45. Cars kill by TheSync · · Score: 0, Troll

    I can assure you that far more children are killed by cars than cellphones...yet I don't see anyone suggesting that children don't ride in cars.

    1. Re:Cars kill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moderators on crack again. Why is the moderated as a troll? The poster makes a valid point: our society appears to be much more afraid of things that have low odds of affecting us (cell phones causing cancer) than things having high odds of affecting us (heart disease from poor diet/lack of exercise). Odds are you will have a car accident sometime in your lifetime; odds are against you getting killed by a terrorist. But which one frightens people more?

  46. and how long were you talking over your cell? by drspin2003 · · Score: 1

    Supersize me!

  47. Reduced Cognitive Function? by Anomalous+Cowbird · · Score: 1

    If cellphone use really makes people stupider, this could explain a lot . . . .

  48. Bah! Phone tumors, Shmone tumors! by Mulletproof · · Score: 1

    Not being a slashdot physician and all, I have to ask... Why aren't the sides of peoples faces melting off? Really now, it sounds lucacris, but we have cellphone emitting obviously harmful radiation, but it's not causing skin cancer or any other malady... It's causing brain cancer. We're talking about a beam with enough power to punch through the skull and hame brain tissue, but nothing else. Shouldn't my highly sensitive optic nerves be turning to jelly too? Let's talk degredation of motor functions... No?

    Look, I realize I could be totally off base here, but that's a pretty damn specific problem for beaming intense cell altering radiation into the head as cellphones supposively do.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
    1. Re:Bah! Phone tumors, Shmone tumors! by Detritus · · Score: 1

      Skin cells live in a much more variable and hostile environment than brain cells. They may have defenses and repair mechanisms that are not present in brain cells.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  49. Ontario, Canada it's illegal by mindaktiviti · · Score: 1

    In Ontario, Canada it's illegal, although I don't know how enforced it is. I think even hands free cell phones shouldn't be used in the car because a person's mind is completely elsewhere.

    I've even been guilty of this, I'd drive with a hands free cell phone conversation and I would almost make a fatal mistake on the road because the conversation in question was an argument or something requiring a few thoughtful answers.

    As I recall, the cell phone companies were probably against this but they didn't want to look like asshats so they suggested you use a hands free ear phone if you want to talk in the car.

    1. Re:Ontario, Canada it's illegal by meadowsp · · Score: 1

      So you never speak to passengers when driving?

    2. Re:Ontario, Canada it's illegal by Sox2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      speaking to someone who is in the car when you are driving is different from trying to sound intelligeble on a cell. the person in the car with you can appreciate the complexity of the driving situation you may currently be involved in (for instance attemting to avoid another driver who is only paying half attention to the road and the traffic and hazards upon it because he/she is using a cell phone at the time) and allow for pauses etc in conversation. the same is not true of a cell call; there is a greater attempt to provide a fluid conversation by the both parties.

  50. Do you use your Dictaphone? by Snart+Barfunz · · Score: 1

    No. My finger, like everybody else! Apologies for obsolete references in that very old joke. I guess it's past retirement age now.

    --
    --- Yx3 = Delilah ---
  51. Whatever by Julian+Morrison · · Score: 1

    Any new and useful tech attracts luddites bearing scare stories. I don't use my mobile much, but that's because I'm an uncommunicative grouch. I certainly don't fear for my life when using it. Show me the casualty list! Or else, quit harping on what-ifs.

  52. hmmmm by trainedCodeMonkey · · Score: 1

    ... pushes cell phone to far side of desk for the day....

  53. The problem with reporting on research by raygundan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is that it routinely gives that "it's good, no, wait... it's bad!" impression to people. Take the studies on the benefits of drinking red wine before you go to bed, for example. Yes, it has benefits. Is alcohol still bad for you in other ways? Yes.

    Caffeine seems to have a positive effect on athletic training according to some recent research. Does that mean that the other things it does (diuretic, addiction) have suddenly gone away? No. But the way these studies are reported leads people to believe that only the most recent finding is true, and everything else is false-- when the truth of the matter is that all of the facts are still there.

    Everything has ups and downs. Your joke is apt-- the news is terribly guilty of making people believe that research is perpetually changing its mind, when in fact the studies are much more specific and non-contradictory than we are led to believe.

    1. Re:The problem with reporting on research by SunFan · · Score: 1

      Caffeine seems to have a positive effect on athletic training according to some recent research.

      Only for the most highly trained athletes (think olympians). The typical high school jock who pops a no-doze will probably be worse for the stimulant. Think about how you feel after one cup of coffee too many, and, then, imagine trying to run 100 yds. feeling like that (summary: it sucks!).

      --
      -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
  54. Re:Reduced cogitive ability and other health effec by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Enough about rugby (I dunno about the Camry bit), what about cell/mobile phones?

  55. Sigh, I'll make it clear then... by Scrameustache · · Score: 1



    I guess I shouldn't have been subtle when I made a comment about the sociological dangers of cell-phone use.

    Here, I'll spell it out then:

    If you use your cell phone in public places as if you were in a private, secluded area, you will irrate those around you. Some of these people might be prone to expressing their anger in a physical manner.
    Therefore, on top of the direct dangers that the apparatus' radiation pose on your central nervous system, an additional, indirect danger of neurological dammage also exists in the form of blows to the head that might result from a cell phone user's inapropriate social behaviour.

    For example: By disregarding the rules of theatre etiquette and engaging in loud, distruptive behaviour at the cinema.

    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

  56. Re:Moderating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Note: the following is a bit offtopic - but relevant to the parent...I see the parent here has been modded Offtop.

    So what is up with that? The post was about the danger of cell phones - and this post is at least moderately related to the danger of cell phones. -- Meanwhile about ten posts down is another thread titled: On the other hand (Score:2)
    by Mr. Cancelled (572486)

    Now that post rants on about how annoying the people who use cell phones are. What the heck does that have to do with Cell Phone Health Risks?! But that post got a 2! (nothing personal Mr.Cancelled)

    I dont get why the parent wasn't modded Funny - and the other post modded Offtopic.

    I posted a thread recently that was funny - and it was - it referenced Natalie Portman - standard /. humor. But I got modded a TROLL! - which slayed my Karma rating - so I am a little annoyed - and frankly I think the moderators maybe need to work on their sense of humor.
    Well done Srameustache - I think your post was funny and relevant

  57. The Study has it all wrong by jtwJGuevara · · Score: 2, Funny

    "to reduced cognitive function"

    No no no! The study has it all wrong! Reduced cognitive function observed in cell phone users isn't the the result of the harmful effects of cell phones. It's just a reflection of the general aptitude of people who have these bits of hard plastic glued to their ears all day.

  58. Think positively: the problem will solve itself by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    Sounds like a good case of natural selection to me. Both the sperm count issues and the tumours are enough of a reproduction probability difference to make a difference, if given enough generations to work their magic.

    So the fucktards who just HAVE to talk on the cell phone all the time, even in a movie theatre or (loudly) on the bus, will eventually get themselves out of the gene pool.

    And conversely the introverts will eventually inherit the Earth. Who would have thought that being a nerd would eventually be a survival trait? :P

    Alternately, I've always fancied a plan that would help curb cell phone annoyance _and_ help stimulate the economy. Namely, if you talk loudly on the cell phone in public, or in a movie theatre at all, two helpful cops take it from you and shove it up your... erm... where the sun don't shine. Literally. By brute force if needed.

    I figure that that ought to deter some of the fucktards. And for the others, the ones that physically can't shut the fuck up for more than 5 minutes, and just _have_ to talk into a phone... well, it would at least create a demand for smaller phones. Way to stimulate R&D, if you ask me.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  59. Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a publishing academic scientist, I feel compelled to translate some of the phrases used in the report. When these phrases are used in a peer-reviewed publication, they have unique meanings:

    Suggest, as in
    "...study in Sweden suggests that..." and
    "...Dutch study had suggested..."
    suggest = "The statement is not supported by my data. This is my theory".

    Hinted, as in
    "A German study has hinted at an increase in cancer..."
    hint = "If you interpret the data incorrectly/optimistically you might think it suggests this"

    Shown evidence, as in
    "...had shown evidence of cell damage..."
    evidence of = "this is one of many legitimate explanations of my data"

    So no one actually has any conclusive data. Most of these phrases are used by scientists for PR purposes - you use them to plant the seed of an idea that you think is true, but that you cannot directly support. It is an end run around reviewers, who will shred you for using phrases like "demonstrates clearly", or "strongly supports" if your data is not any good. While there are many flaws (incl. varying levels of corruption) in the peer-review system, it is still better than nothing.

    Semi-technical rant follows:

    As an aside, measurements of "cognitive function" are extraordinarily difficult to measure in poorly controlled outbred populations (people, separated by, say, cell-phone usage) since other factors (wealth/education/lack-of education etc) may co-segregate with the groups and skew results. There are also dozens of techniques that measure "cell damage" varying from useless and random to highly effective. None of them, however, are really measurements of tumor/cancer growth. The best measure of tumors or cancer is, in fact, measurements of tumors or cancer. Using "cell damage" as a predictive tool for cancer is fundamentally flawed. Your cells are damaged all the time, and many tissues (CNS included) can sustain and overcome significant "cell damage" and recover fully without any changes in tumor/cancer likelihood.

    I'm not even going to get into the whole "can't prove a negative result" debate. Simply put, if 500 respected reviewers find no link between two phenomena, and one quack professor on the fringe of sanity finds a link, you tell me who gets published.

  60. People don't want to hear this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone just wants their technology. No one cares that it may kill you or your children. Please stop posting this stuff. No body wants to hear this.

    Every time the health effects of cell phones gets mentioned, the comments get modded down big time. Plus, no one can make a rational defense of them, based upon scientific evidence.

    Fortunately, many of these people use WiFi laptops and place them on thier laps. So their is some justice after all, even if you can't argue with them.

    So please, keep this news off of Slashdot. No one wants to hear it.

  61. EVERYTHING will Kill you! by clonan · · Score: 1

    What bugs me is not that this story doesn't "prove" anything but that people seem to expect cell phone usage to be completly harmless.

    Remember people, everything will kill you in the righ amounts. One of the most potent poisons know is good old Oxygen. Oxygen is also a prime cancer causer as well as any number of thoer diseases.

    No one is suggesting we stop breathing because the risks are minimal and the benifits are great.

    As far as cell phones go, the risks ARE minimal and the benifits...well other than while driving...seem to be pretty good.

    At the frequency and energy levels that the typical cell phone puts out, the worst that happens is a temporary local temperature elavation. This is the ONLY prove effect of cell phone usage.

    Now anytime the body is moved out of homeostasis bad things can happen...but it IS rare and fairly minor.

    Cell towers MAY (and I stress MAY) be a different matter and there is a lot more evidence for damage there.

    But a call to stop cell usage just makes people not take you seriously. You need to be able to say exactly what is happening or no one will do anything except ignore you!

    Sorry, but I had to rant a little.

    1. Re:EVERYTHING will Kill you! by surprise_audit · · Score: 1
      the worst that happens is a temporary local temperature elavation

      And I can't help thinking that at the rate blood gets pumped around the body, the extra warmth will be dissipated fairly quickly...

  62. Give me odds! by LordEd · · Score: 1

    So apparently I am now 4 times more likely to die a horrible death... 4 times what? What are the odds of getting the tumor without using a cell phone? Four in 10? 100? 1,000? 10,000?

    Looking at the odds , i'm not really going to start worrying until the odds are closer to travel accidents (1 in 6,029), or maybe car accidents (1 in 19,075).

    Even better, the odds of dying on a set of stairs is 1 in 195,003 per year... are we going to ban stairs?

  63. Cognitive Function by Mr.Surly · · Score: 1

    ... from tumors to reduced cognitive function.

    You only need to be near someone driving while on a cell phone to witness the "reduced cognitive function" part.

  64. Enough of this crap by hairykrishna · · Score: 1
    Ok. Radiation of microwave wavelengths is non-ionising. Power levels are too low for heating of tissue to be a problem.

    What's the proposed mechanism for all this damage?

    Ok, so there isn't one, must be a hell of a statistical anomaly showing up for people to be speculating this wildly.

    Oh no, my mistake.

    Anyone want to buy some magic beans? They protect you from harmful radiation. I don't have any proof as such but it would appear that quite a few people who have beans don't have cancer

    --
    "Physics is to math as sex is to masturbation." -R. Feynman
    1. Re:Enough of this crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "What's the proposed mechanism for all this damage?"

      There's complex chemistry going on inside cells, and while the radiation is non-ionizing, that doesn't preclude voltage gradients from inductive or capacitive coupling having an effect. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, just an avenue worthy of consideration if only to eliminate a possible mechanism (science works by TESTING theories, you can only responsibly eliminate a premise by performing experiments; assuming one way or the other is bad science).

      "Ok, so there isn't one, must be a hell of a statistical anomaly showing up for people to be speculating this wildly."

      There isn't one you are aware of, but then I'm guessing you aren't a molecular biologist. But if you want a purely anecdotal statistical anomaly, I know 5 people who have had brain tumors, but only two who have had bowel cancer; statistically speaking, I should know 20 people with bowel cancer for every one with a brain tumor. That's a pretty wild deviation from the statistical norm, and one that's difficult to lightly dismiss when people you know are actually dying, even for an ordinarily hard core sceptic like myself.

      "...it would appear that quite a few people who have beans don't have cancer."

      There is a well established correlation between dietary fibre and bowel cancer. So ironically, your attempt at sarcasm is factually correct.

  65. Get your $1.3 million dollars now. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1


    If you can describe clearly what those interactions are, you'll get a cool $1.3 million dollars, and think of all the women who would like to sleep with a Nobel Prize winner. (Actually, don't think of them, they're very tiresome.)

    1. Re:Get your $1.3 million dollars now. by bilby727 · · Score: 1

      I'd love to do so. Unfortunately neither I or anyone else knows how to describe the interactions.

      Dr Henry Lai is the leading researcher in the field who has proposed a possible mechanism (see http://www.leukaemiaconference.org/programme/speak ers/day3-lai.pdf). He and others found that non-ionizing power-frequency EMFs can cause both single and double-strand DNA breaks.

      More research needs to be done to understand fully and I hope they win the money. Just because we don't understand the mechanism, it doesn't mean things aren't happening.

    2. Re:Get your $1.3 million dollars now. by JimFromJersey · · Score: 1
      Just because we don't understand the mechanism, it doesn't mean things aren't happening.


      and that my friend is at the heart of great science. I belive it was Helmholtz who said the same thing about the nervous system, he "knew" something like the nervous system existed, but lacked the tools to see it. Overall, he was a brilliant man.
      --
      between the greater and lesser infinities sleep the dreams undreamt
  66. No, this is the correct argument by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    It is simply a matter of statistical definition. If you run a hundred tests on unrelated things, you will get on average five tests that support a correlation. What these researchers seem to be seeing is noise. Even when they do see something, it is pathetically small. You are about a billion times more likely to die on the way to the store where you bought your cell phone than you are to die from the non-ionizing radiation it emits. For you non-thinkers out there, the "radition" (ie, light) emitted by cell-phones is so low in energy that it is less than the thermal background energy. Its like throwing marbles in a bowling alley.

  67. Only while in use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I skimmed the article and some comments here but didn't see what I was looking for. The article suggests that the danger exists only while the cell phone is being used as it indicates problems in the brain and ears, especially the side of the head the phone is held too. But are there also problems just having one in your pocket turned on but not in use? I have a cell phone but rarely use it and carry it with me everywhere. Also, I know some people use an ear phone or bluetooth headset. Does that negate the effect to the head and offload it to the part of the body the phone is next too? Or are bluetooth adapters potentially problem causing too?

  68. Proof that cell phones affect cognitive function: by imagin8or · · Score: 1

    By merely being the subject of this thread, they've provoked just 2 Score:5 responses out of 172. QED.

  69. There is evidence in case of kids by adeydas · · Score: 1

    Recently it came out that kids below 8 or 9 should not use cell phones as it may cause brain damage due to the radiation and there is evidence to prove it.

  70. Contact by phorm · · Score: 1

    Maybe it's because some of us like to have human contact? No, I'm not talking about the kid who would rather yack on the phone that meet up with their friends 2 blocks away.

    I spend my weekends generally away from home. Being that I don't stay specifically in one place, the cell is my only reliable means of contact. Much easier to ring up my friends and see when they're getting off of work on Friday night, or have them call me when they're off.

    Kids, on the other hand, are a different story. The tend to have a fixed home-base. If the need to call home from Billy's house then I'm sure Billy's mom has a phone.

    The addicts and annoyance tend to paint a dim view of cellphone users, but do keep in mind that there are many people (travellers, businesspeople, etc) that have perfectly legitimate uses for them. Just turn them off in the damn car and theatre please, people!

  71. It's people like you that are the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am a better driver talking on a cell phone than at least three quarters of the people on the road

    And more than three quarters of all people on the road likely say the same thing. It's always the other guy, eh?

    If I feel I'm overloaded cognitively, I just put it down...I don't see what's inherently more distracting about a cell phone than a converstation with a front-seat passenger.

    Suuure. That's why when you're learning to drive they tell you that you can use two hands or one on the steering wheel, it doesn't matter, you still have the same amount of control. And if there's about to be an incident, why there's plenty of time to put down the phone and turn your attention to whatever's about to happen. And you can even do this with significant blood alcohol levels!

    It is precisely people like you that are the problem - you think everyone else is a poor driver, but your own super leet skills will save you from any situation. The very fact that you believe this shows what a poor driver you really are. If you haven't had a collision yet, your attitude means it's only a matter of time. I just hope that you don't injure or kill others when it happens.

  72. Not lead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lead is to block x-rays. You just need a copper mesh woven into your underwear. Or perhaps make them out of some conductive polymer. That will be illegal of course because it will block some of the RFID chips tracking those sperm you're worried about.

  73. It's True. All the data you want... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just come to Los Angeles, CA and drive on the 405 for a week ;-)

  74. Re:Oh.... by vertinox · · Score: 1

    With all the device convergence, not only is there the danger of radiation, there is the danger of being killed by a Koopa turtle, the danger of hearing naughty rap lyrics, and the danger of receiving really ugly photos.

    So that's why Nintendo rejected my game idea: "Mario in Da Hood, Yo!" featuring goatse man as the end boss.

    --
    "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
    -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
  75. Torch versus torch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I sincerely hope that you are holding a British torch (flashlight) to your ear, rather than an American torch (burning stick) to your head!

  76. Not me by Striver · · Score: 1

    People will keep phoning, then, they'll sue the phone manufacturers in order to force them to build more secure devices.

    I have never owned a cell phone and I have only used one once in my life (I am 52). Maybe this is flame bait but for most people, cell phones are only ego trips. Guess what, you aren't that important and what you have to say isn't that important that it can't wait 'til you get to a land line phone. Yes, there are exceptions but they are extremely rare.

    The biggest problem I have faced in rejecting this technology is peer pressure. I suspect that will show in some of the replies I get to this post. I will get even by outliving them :o]

    --
    this is loaner...my sig is in the shop
    1. Re:Not me by JimFromJersey · · Score: 1
      cell phones are only ego trips

      My cell phone bill is less then the baseline bill for my old land line. On top of that long-distance is at no additional charge which is good because 95% of my personal calls are long-distance. So what you call an ego trip I call basic economics.
      --
      between the greater and lesser infinities sleep the dreams undreamt
    2. Re:Not me by Josh+Booth · · Score: 1

      This is just foolishness. I'm 19 and while I don't talk that much on any phone, I do need a cell phone. I go to college and there isn't any one place that I will be at any point in time. If someone is trying to reach me, it would be very hard. Also, if I have an emergency or am trying to coordinate several people in different places, there is no other way to do it. You get many of the benefits of walkie-talkies and of a regular telephone.

      Landlines are just as important in my opinion since if I want to call a place, business, or home, a landline is your sure bet to reach that particular organization. However, if you want to reach a person, it is much easier to call them by the cell phone that they carry most of the time than to estimate their schedual and predict which of three or four numbers you can reach them at.

      Many people don't really need cell phones, and that's fine. But they really are useful devices.

    3. Re:Not me by Striver · · Score: 1

      Nice "Straw man" fallacy!

      However, as you know, I never said "Cell phones are only ego trips". What I said is, "For most people, cell phones are only ego trips," which is a very different statement that you have said nothing to refute.

      --
      this is loaner...my sig is in the shop
    4. Re:Not me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you said nothing to back it up. In fact, I have yet to meet a person for whom the cellphone was merely an "ego trip". Most often it is more of a leash for spouses. He may have built a straw man, but you're just plain making shit up.

    5. Re:Not me by Striver · · Score: 1

      Let me get this straight. What I basically said was that many people don't need cell phones. You responded with the opening statement that, "This is just foolishness." Then after a longwinded tribute to the importance of your own communications, you stated the exact same sentiment that "Many people don't need cell phones." Wouldn't you say that is a bit circular? How is your statement of this fact any less foolish than mine?

      --
      this is loaner...my sig is in the shop
    6. Re:Not me by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      I have avoided them as well, of course I used the health dangers as a viable excuse and this story just helps to reinforce and preserve it. Of course the new 21st century ego trip is not to have one i.e. maintain a level of independance and freedom (let some other poor smuck worker drone be a 24 hour a day slave to the phone).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  77. So Hang Up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the perfect time to simply hang up.

    You can always call back and explain... or
    don't ... 'we must have gotten cut off'.

    In the _old_ days, the trick used to be to
    hang up while you yourself were talking.

  78. Not nearly so cut & dried as those sound bites by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    What's the proposed mechanism for all this damage?

    Cyclotronic-resonance

    The issue of EM radiation is not nearly so clear-cut at all the owned news sources would have us believe.

    The example linked above is just one small piece of a fascinating puzzle. You might benefit from more research beyond the corridors of big money. There's a lot to find if you take the time, and particularly in this case it's well worth the effort.


    -FL

  79. There are no odds. by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    So apparently I am now 4 times more likely to die a horrible death... 4 times what? What are the odds of getting the tumor without using a cell phone? Four in 10? 100? 1,000? 10,000?

    It's not really about dying a horrible death. It's about having your mind turned to fuzz so that you can't think or cognate properly.

    And there are no odds. If you use a cell phone, then your brain isn't working properly. You are living under a measurable handicap. Simple as that. The fact that you might have trouble noticing this is due to the fact that the very organ you use for taking stock of reality is the one being affected.


    -FL

  80. Fried by CleverNickedName · · Score: 1

    I keep my mobile in the front pocket of my jeans.
    That way, I can be sure that my future kids will never laugh at me for using, what could be, a dangerous device. :)

    --


    Unfortunately, I am not Wil Wheaton
  81. And then. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    Simply put, if 500 respected reviewers find no link between two phenomena, and one quack professor on the fringe of sanity finds a link, you tell me who gets published.

    Lone Quack theory?

    Hm. There is always a lunatic fringe, but is it always wise to look at only one part of a sample in order to judge the whole?

    I believe this was in essence even part of your own argument. So why not apply it to more than just one area?

    The fact of the matter is that there is a lot of good science being done. Some excellent literature, books, papers have been written by scientists who are well respected by their peers in the world of orthodox research. I've studied a portion of it, and the material I've come across reads in direct contrast to the broad public beliefs about what is and is not known. Somewhat alarmingly, this is the case even among people really ought to know better, but who instead take the industry's and big media's word for the matter.

    The problem is that there is a lot of research done every year, and scientific ideas are much like rock music and movies. They can only reach a broad audience and wide public acceptance with enormous promotional funding. --The same rules which rule pop culture apply to the scientific world, and that's not a joke. It takes money and effort to sell ideas. To elicit awareness.

    The problem is that the media is owned by the very companies which have heavy stakes in cell phone technology. This is not conspiracy theory. It's cold, hard truth. It's conflict of interest. I know a few journalists, and I have been told stories about how stories have been scrubbed because of fear of upsetting the publisher.

    Even the American Air Force has had a hand in the manipulation of public perceptions in this matter. --When Air Force soldiers began to develop cancer from exposure at high-power radar and com-sat stations, (soldiers described how standing in front of a big radar dish was good in the winter because it heated them up nicely.), the military, fearing law suits, began funding research designed not to uncover the truth of the matter, but to deliberately 'show' that human tissue cannot be affected even by high power EM radiation. In typical fashion, the military got their way and was not forced to foot any medical bills for exposing their people to unsafe technology and medicines.

    As with most innovations, there was a direct continuation of microwave technology moving from the military into the public sector; and right along with this came the pre-installed lies.

    Further, the issue is confused. Cancer isn't the main problem. --Although, it is possible to speed up the growth of existing cancer cells with extremely low levels of electrical stimulation of the sort which can be created through resonance effects caused by Cell Phone technology, this is, I think, a side issue.

    Animal cells are affected by EM radiation within certain parameters. --Again, it is true that Cell Phone microwave radiation is at too high a frequency to have many of those effects which are understood, but a Cell Phone signal IS however, modulated down to a frequency, about 10 Hz, (if I remember correctly), which while it is not annalog, does have the ability to mimic those low frequency effects.

    And this is not quack science.

    I'll roll out once more the example of Cyclotronic Resonance for a blunt explanation of how one of those effects works. --Basically one signal in combination with the Earth's magnetic field, can cause certain molecules and atoms which naturally exist in the blood, not just to energize, but to move on a vector which allows them to much more readily penetrate the Blood-Brain Barrier than they normally do, and thus have medicinal effects upon the brain. --This is just one of several mechanisms which are known to exist.


    -FL

  82. Straw man. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    Now that you have learned some of the skills needed to distinguish bullshit from non-bullshit, there are a few more steps you can take if you like. . .

    I have read quite extensively among the available literature regarding Cell Phone EM, and yes, there is some emotionally charged stuff out there which makes it easy to look away and not give the issue proper consideration.

    But there is also a lot of good research which does not raise the common warning flags your article points out.

    When it comes to the effects of EM radiation and electricity on cell tissue, the effects are by no means small or "at the very limit of detection." The research I've read does not start out with emotional appeals, but (among the ones I have read), rather stem from genuine curiosity.

    While it has been demonstrated that cancer cells can be made to grow many times faster with certain types of electrical stimulation, the issue I am more interested in has to do with the various mechanisms through which physiology can be altered and affected in non-destructive ways.

    The cry of the wool-dyed cynic is just as foolish and self-deluding as the cry of the lunatic. If you want to know what's really going on, you cannot walk into a library with expectations. I notice in your article that you used numerous instances of ridicule to press your point when logic was not on your side. How is this different from the very emotional appeals you point out yourself as being problematic? I don't mean to rub your nose in it, but the question I think is valid.

    And finally, it is a mistake to believe that anybody owes one anything. One does not deserve truth. We are all responsible to ourselves in the search for knowledge. Nobody owes you proof, and if you move through the world accepting 'data' from only those who have the funds and media structure to deliver their messages to you in the style you have become accustomed to, then you will be filled only with what people with lots and lots of money want you to be filled with.


    -FL

  83. Penn and Teller - Bullshit by permaculture · · Score: 1

    FWIW, here's some stuff from Series 2 episode 2.

    "You really wouldn't expect cell phones to cause cancer. They don't emit ionising radiation that damages DNA."
    Dr. Michael Thun, Epidemiologic Research, American Cancer Society

    The waves that come out of [cell phones] are too fat, they're literally too big to hit an atom, break off an electron, [...] and rip apart DNA and cause cancer.
    David Ropeik, Risk Analysis, Harvard Center

    --
    Environmentalism is the new Victorianism. Everyone ties on a green corset and pretends we're virtuous.
  84. Some of the garbage marked "+5 Insightful". . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    People who are determined not to see will use almost any means to not see.

    There's really no need to sweat so much. If you want to turn your mind to fuzz, then you are free to do so.

    The interesting thing I notice, however, in reading the posts below, is the apparent decreasing logical and communicative abilities of the people who are defending their own decay. To be expected, I suppose, but it is really beginning to stand out more and more these days.

    There's one fellow below who wrote an annotated post explaining how to recognize quack-science. Very poorly written! --The hypocrisy and lack of rationality reads like something from one of those, "Bush, the Great Statesman," Neocon web sites. --Or the kinds of arguments you see on those late-night Christian evangelism television shows.

    That's fine. Like I said, decay as much as you want. But "+5 Insightful"? THAT part makes me sigh. Some days I fear that this world is quite beyond help.

    The end/beginning is coming, but the transition will only hurt in inverse proportion to the level of stupidity and denial people cling to. And right now, I'm cringing.


    -FL

  85. Hypocritical attacks on pseudoscience ;) by UpnAtom · · Score: 1

    > Why, then, can't we make these technological marvels safe?

    Pseudoscience begins with a hypothesis -- usually one which is appealing emotionally, and spectacularly implausible -- and then looks only for items which appear to support it.

    Which you are guilty of too. You should have pointed out the presupposition in his quoted introduction that cell phones are not safe.

    2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his or her work.

    When a group is emotionally or financial invested in something, any competing idea will threaten them.

    Pseudoscience makes extraordinary claims and advances fantastic theories that contradict what is known about nature.

    As do many scientific advances. The Earth isn't flat.

    Gads, always with the Toxins, you people.

    Pseudoscience appeals to false authority, to emotion, sentiment, or distrust of established fact.

    Which you just did right there.

    *wtf* does this have to do with radiation and cancer?

    Why does it have to be about radiation?

    > This is not a cell phones cause brain cancer scare story.

    As Penn and Teller might say... BULLSHIT.

    Pseudoscience appeals to false authority, to emotion, sentiment, or distrust of established fact.

    1. Re:Hypocritical attacks on pseudoscience ;) by dublin · · Score: 1

      Pseudoscience appeals to false authority, to emotion, sentiment, or distrust of established fact.

      Thank you so much for declaring on behalf of us all that these experts in their field are practicing "psuedoscience" - we will now rest easy in your certainty that "real science" is never, ever, wrong. (And of course, the multibillion dollar wireless industry has nothing at stake, either, now does it?)

      Someone please alert the FCC, FDA, and the universities, so they can summarily reject as "pseudoscience" any proposed research to determine if there might really be a threat posed by a technology so new (only a few years old!) that it's hard for anyone to know much yet.

      We are truly fortunate you've saved us all the trouble and expense of actually conducting real scientific research on a *potentially* significant heatlh issue.

      Whatever happened to science as a quest for knowledge (which implies truth)? I guess our political and emotional worldviews trump concerns for truth these days...

      --
      "The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last ./ post
  86. easy to fix... by nido · · Score: 1

    It's been well established in studies undertaken by entities other than electric power companies that electromagnetic radiation DOES in fact influence human energy systems. Fortunately there are easy-to-do exercises which when done regularly will fix any negative effects.

    see Donna Eden's Energy Medicine, which offers Donna's take on tuning up/repairing the body's energy systems.

    "separating heaven and earth" is particularly useful after using a computer/etc..

    --
    Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
    www.teslabox.com
  87. Oh man... by 9Monk · · Score: 0

    Well, I guess I'm screwed either way because there's a cell tower on top of my building, over my apartment. I'm mutating so fast, I'll probably be able to join the X-Men soon...

  88. You're kidding, right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get a grip boy, what isn't BS about it?

  89. MOD PARENT FUNNY, NOT INFORMATIVE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is total complete bull, phase angle has nothing to do with penetration capability.

    Well, unless you're in a Faraday cage... and it's made of semiconductors and becomes periodically nonconductive.

    Then phase angle would have an effect.

  90. Who benefits from this propaganda? by snarkasaurus · · Score: 1

    Lawyers, of course! Also all the no-talent wankers who keep getting grants to churn out this bilge, and the journals which print it.

    How bad, how science-free is this stuff? National Academy of Sciences just gave their review report on gun control. Here's some comment on it. http://www.investors.com/editorial/issues.asp?v=1/ 12

    Bottom line, even though the thing was paid for by a bunch of anti-gun foundations (Pew, Ford etc.) and even though all but one of the people on the review were publicly avowed anti-guners, and indeed even though they avoided any and all research that suggested guns might be of some benefit to the owner: their net result was no evidence that gun control works.

    Thirty years of crappy research, millions and millions of public health research dollars pissed away, all completely wasted.

    DDT? Same story as above, lots of total CRAP written with zero useful scientific content.

    Global warming? See above.

    OSHA? They nearly put through regulations to protect workers from back injuries that would have bankrupted every employer in the USA. The only thing that stopped them was the 2000 election. Science? BWAHAHA!!!! As if!

    I could go on, but I'm sure you're getting the drift. Anybody with an axe to grind is seizing on these bogus issues. They should all take some lessons in basic statistics.

    1. Re:Who benefits from this propaganda? by afxgrin · · Score: 1

      If you looked at the OSHA link you'd have noticed that nothing was supporting the biological effects.

    2. Re:Who benefits from this propaganda? by snarkasaurus · · Score: 1

      I regret to say that this does not fill me with confidence. OSHA's track record for running with junk science is abysmal. That they haven't run with this particular one yet is merely coincidence. Give them time, I'm sure they'll discover cell phones are bad.

  91. Correction: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "There is a well established correlation between dietary fibre and bowel cancer."

    That should have been "lack of dietary fibre".

  92. The equation has Planck's constant as coefficient. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1


    Possibly I didn't express myself clearly enough before. Interaction between waves and matter is very, very well understood. The equation has Planck's constant as a coefficient. Planck's constant is a very small number.

    I don't have time now to go into this, but I read the paper you cited. Everything I say on Slashdot is only my opinion. My opinion is that the man who wrote knows that he is lying, and is therefore a liar. If I were dean at that university, I would seriously investigate whether he should be fired, or merely re-trained.

  93. Re:The equation has Planck's constant as coefficie by bilby727 · · Score: 1


    Very easy to say someone is lying. Are the other five research labs that found DNA damage lying too? Are you saying that Dr Lai is lying because he couldn't possibly be correct? Well I think it is possible that he could be correct.

    I suggest you look at one of Henry Lai's recent papers at http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/2004/6355/6355.pd f entitled "Magnetic Field-Induced DNA Strand Breaks in Brain Cells of the Rat"

    It has his email address and phone number on it and I'm sure he would only be too happy to discuss his research with you.

    By the way, I like your Futurepower website.

  94. Distinguish between real science and junk science. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1


    Thanks for the compliment about the web site.

    Everything I've written here is just my present opinion, and not well-researched and edited enough to be more than a Slashdot comment.

    I study these kinds of things a lot, and my opinion is that the kind of lying that Dr. Lai did in the paper you mentioned originally is typical for someone exhibiting one of the worst elements of the Chinese culture, and very unscientific.

    Here is a more honest, but still dishonest, paper of the same genre as the two by Dr. Lai you have mentioned: A 3 milliTesla 60 Hz magnetic field is neither mutagenic nor co-mutagenic....

    The first sentence is, "The mechanisms by which an electromagnetic field (EMF) influences biological material are poorly understood." That's somewhat honest. A truly honest sentence would read, "The mechanisms by which an electromagnetic field (EMF) influences chemical reactions are poorly understood", because there is nothing specific about the reaction of the processes of biological chemistry to electromagnetic fields. The same effects occur in non-biological reactions.

    Apparently none of the papers like this one propose anything that they claim is specific to the chemistry of biological processes. The papers allow and encourage readers to believe that there is a special connection between biology and electromagnetic fields only to make the work seem more important.

    The next sentence of the abstract is, "One potentially important model suggests that a magnetic field can stabilize free radicals in such a way as to permit their dispersement rather than their return to the ground state (Okazaki et al., 1988; Scaiano, 1995)." I don't have access to either of those papers, but my guess from a quick Google search is that Okazaki's paper might be entirely reasonable science. The problem is that there is no honest relationship between this paper and the one by Okazaki being cited. The paper to which I've linked is what is commonly known as "junk science".

    That paper, which I picked at random from a quick Google search on the term "milliTesla", goes on to say, "We have tested this hypothesis by examining.... They are certainly not testing any such hypothesis, or they are testing it in a very, very weak way.

    The reason these papers study a "60 Hz sinusoidal field" is because that's what you get when you plug the power that comes out of the wall into a coil of wire. The most noticeable effect is not that an alternating magnetic field is generated, but that the coil gets hot. Maybe the genetic breakage is caused the scaring the rat. Maybe he thinks he is being cooked.

    Few of the people who work in scientific fields are actually scientists. More than 50%, and many true scientists say more than 90%, are just lab tinkerers.

    This is the distinction: Good science is theory-guided. Junk science is not theory-guided, but just tries something in hopes that it will reveal something else. Any "theories" junk scientists have typically hang disconnected like a fly trapped in Jello. True science builds further knowledge on a strong foundation of what is already verified.

    The problem with Henry Lai's paper "Magnetic-Field-Induced DNA Strand Breaks in Brain Cells of the Rat" is that, while it is interesting to know that magnetic fields have effects on chemical compounds, the paper takes advantage of an opportunity for social fraud. Many of the grant-givers don't have much scientific knowledge. The grant-givers give grants based on their perception of the importance of the work, and this paper takes advantage of their ignorance by allowing the grant-givers to believe something that is false.

    The falsehood is that magnetic fields affect genetic material in some special way that only can be studied in genetic mat

  95. Waves by acidbass · · Score: 0

    I have a degree in Physics. And i can tell you , the major concern we talk about at school was the length of the wave and the length of time the signal is present in the body. The trick is to not use a frequency that is shorter than your head. A 1GHz signal is about 15cm. That is about the width of a human head and thats about as high a frequency you want to go with cell phones ( i think most phones are 1.8 GHz, but i dunno) . Since humans are mostly water ( your brain especially ) and water is conductive, if a wave is able to make a complete cycle *inside your body* a slight charge can be created across your cells and alter cells/do damage , even at low voltage this can occur b/c in physics , time also matters, not just level of intensity. If you use a cell phone and have high frequency/low voltage pass thru your brain for 50 years, you could develop tumors equivilant to experiencing a powerful voltage blast for a few seconds. If the wave length is longer than your body ( like radio waves are typically 3 feet or even 3 meters ) then the wave cannot make a comlete cycle inside your body, thus greatly decreasing the chance of any radioactive force being placed on your body. What gives us pause now isnt the cell phones so much ( b/c you can use those ear pieces and put the cell phone on your hip so you just get colon or liver cancer instead of brain cancer ) but those new wireless netowkrs at 5GHz and 10Ghz. Youre talking about these high frequency waves running thru your body YOUR WHOLE LIFE! not just for a 10-20 minute phone conversation once or twice a day. And think about kids who are born into hi traffic wireless hot spots where there may be 20 5Ghz signals flying all over. The human body has been around for at least 100,000 years and never experienced this level or type of radioation. I guess well see what happens to us in this great experiment called life. I wont be surprised if people start getting tumors or having mutated babies due to cellphones / wireless radiation.

  96. Plain Scaremongering by cjb110 · · Score: 1

    This is just scaremongering, pretty much everything can kill you if taken/exposed to in the extremes.

    Daft report, it's only outcome is to confuse and worry parents/public. The only thing it does get right is that parents shouldn't give little kids phones early, but not because it might, one day, possibly hurt them.

    --
    ----- I refuse to have an argument with an unarmed person
  97. Re:indeed by bilby727 · · Score: 1


    I'll address some major points from what you have said.

    Firstly, you are saying that Dr Lai and others are committing fraud because they make us believe that electromagnetic radiation behaves in a special way towards biological organisms and we can't just examine chemical reactions.

    I don't believe there is any fraud being committed. A paper by Gerard Hyland at http://www.tetrawatch.net/papers/hyland_basestatio ns_0803.pdf entitled "How Exposure to GSM & TETRA Base-station Radiation can Adversely Affect Humans" explains why aliveness matters.

    He says "the living organism [is] an electromagnetic instrument of great and exquisite sensitivity that is able to recognise and discern the presence of external electromagnetic radiation informationally, by decoding (demodulating) its various frequency characteristics" and "non-thermal influences of an informational kind are possible only when the organism is alive".

    He also mentions interactions that don't require aliveness: "particularly if the frequency of the radiation matches or is close to that of an organised (collective) electrical vibration of a molecule".

    It would be appear there is a genuine reason to believe that aliveness matters and this means there is no fraud, regardless of whether they are right or wrong. There is a genuine belief that research on living organisms is useful.

    You say that exposing rats to 0.1 mT is not relevant because humans are unlikely to be exposed to such levels. Actually it is a useful experiment because it still allows us to learn something about radiation at non-thermal intensities. It may be easier to observer affects at these higher intensities than lower ones and provides a good starting point. There is always a question about whether thermal affects are coming into play, and we need to check that the researchers have designed their experiments properly. However, the studies do purport to be at non-thermal levels.

    Now moving on to your points about Dr Lai's statement that "Non-ionizing electromagnetic fields do not contain enough energy to affect chemical bonds in molecules directly."

    I'm confused about what you have written. You are correct to say that "In fact, ionizing electromagnetic fields are very, very strong. They cause electrons to be completely liberated from the atoms to which they were attached". This is true by definition. However, the statement is about non-ionizing electromagnetic fields which, by definition, are not strong enough to liberate electrons from atoms. Dr Lai is really just stating this definition.

    Then you say "Actually, non-ionizing electromagnetic fields often promote chemical reactions" but you use an example of ultraviolet light which is not non-ionizing; it is ionizing. As you say, it is "especially energetic".

    So I think there is some confusion here about ionizing vs non-ionizing radiation and no reason to call Dr Lai a liar unless I'm missing something.

    The "junk science" label gets thrown around a lot but it is highly subjective.

  98. Biological processes respond specifically to GSM? by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1


    Here's a quote from the new paper to which you linked: "Difficulties in replication can often be traced to some crucial difference in experimental protocol that effectively undermines the fidelity of the intended replication. Thus the reason why it has not been possible to replicate some experiments is precisely because they have not actually been replicated!"

    Now there's an entire weasel paragraph!

    Until someone can replicate the experiments, it is not considered experimental science. That's why we no longer take cold fusion seriously. No amount of weasel verbiage has the slightest possibility of changing the way people do real science.

    The author of that paper is all over the map. He makes Dr. Henry Lai look like a tower of propriety.

    He has apparently collected all the hypotheses he could find in one paper. Amazing: Groups of cells resonating with microwave frequencies! The human body demodulating radio signals and responding to the demodulated signal!

    If someone could demonstrate truth in either of those, he or she would definitely be a candidate for a Nobel Prize.

    I don't want to spend the time responding to everything in that paper. But the purpose is clear. He is attacking an area where he believes he will get the most attention. Cell phones causing damage is a hot topic among foggy-minded people now. A more intellectually honest person would consider other sources of electromagnetic radiation: 1) Airplanes with radar flying overhead, 2) 50,000 watt AM and FM radio and TV stations (4 different frequency bands), 3) Airport radar, 4) Cordless phones, 5) The neighbor next door and his 1,000 watt amateur radio transmitter, 6) Billions of high energy particles entering the atmosphere and ionizing air molecules, which then spray gamma rays everywhere. 7) CB radios.

    Isn't it odd that biological processes respond specifically to GSM signals?

    Maybe forty years ago, there was great concern for a while about living near a radio or TV station.

  99. Not just GSM by bilby727 · · Score: 1


    That's not a weasel paragraph. It is saying that certain experiments have not been yet replicated and so we can't prove or disprove the original experiments. It means we need to do more research.

    Dr Hyland provides references to his claims about "groups of cells resonating with microwave frequencies" and the "human body demodulating radio signals and responding to the demodulated signal". I wouldn't want to dismiss these claims without checking the references.

    Just because Dr Hyland's paper refers to GSM and TETRA radiation, it doesn't mean he is being dishonest. It happens to be a hot topic as you say and people want to know particularly about that issue. I'm sure Dr Hyland is well aware of other sources of radiation that are of concern. In his paper he talks about and references studies on TV and radio transmitters, cordless phones and radar. It is just possible that mobile phone radiation is a greater priority now.

    There is still ongoing research and concern about all the types of radiation you have mentioned, and more, including radiation from power lines. No-one is saying that only GSM signals have a biological affect. It is just a one aspect that is being studied.