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Mac mini Review At Macworld
lemonylimey writes "Macworld has the first hands-on review of the new Mac mini along with nicely illustrated step-by-step dissection.
It looks like the mini comes apart easily and (unsuprisingly) uses standard notebook components: a Panasonic DVD-R drive on 'SuperDrive' equipped models, Seagate Momentus 2.5" notebook ATA-100 hard drive and a single, nicely accessible 184 pin DDR DIMM socket. Upgrade options aside, it might not have the clock-for-clock power of the equivalent $499 PC, but you have to ask yourself - If you put them both on a shelf and ask your Mom* to pick one, which one is it going to be? (Yes, I'm sure your Mom is a Doctor of Mathematics and wouldn't buy anything she couldn't run Debian on. You know what I meant.)"
Any (quality) DDR ram work? I heard earlier Macs needed some goofy timing, so you had to be careful about what you bought. This still true, or did they use off the shelf stuff this time?
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
A beowulf cluster of these.
::zombie::
No no, seriously! You could have a little stack of them. You could even built a little pyramid of them, right on your desk! Am I the only one obsessed with this idea!?
Must... purchase... stack of Mac minis...
And here's a bunch of performance benchmarks pitting the Mac mini against a range of other current Macs--not just abstract numbers but real-world tasks (think "17 Meg file"). I wonder how PCs stack up, particularly with Cinebench and the iTunes rip test...
So, what are the reasons to run Linux on Mac Mini? Because you can.
OK, this is just wrong.
1. Linus is not the _only_ person who looks at submitted code for Linux ... there are many people, and i've met some of them. This is just disingenuous to suggest.
2. The kernel source is not available because it's the least complex part of the OS -- it's available partly because it's one of the more complex pieces, and a lot of really smart people who know their stuff in kernel space look at / debug / suggest additions for it.
3. Come on -- on a Linux box, if you don't want to compile from source, use apt or rpm or dselect or whatever.
Hey, I love my Macs (1.33ghz 12" PowerBook, 450mhz Cube, dual 1.25ghz g4) but your points are deceptive -- there are harder methods of doing things on OSX, and easier methods of doing things on Linux. You choose the best method for the desired outcome.
Regards,
John
Falling You - beautiful
I don't get why you don't want to buy one. Well, I do understand, but you've not elaborated your reasons.
How about you stop trolling with the same comments in every Mac mini story on /. ?
Get a life.
In Korea, long hair is for old people!
Had a nice conversation with the project lead for the mac mini this morning at the apple store in the Westfield mall. He said first day sales blew away any computer apple's ever made, by a sizable margin, although the shuffle blew the mini away for first day sales of any apple product ever. He said he was asked, can you make it this small? (10" square)... yes. Can you make it this small? (8" square)... yes. Can you make it this small? (7" square)... maybe. Can you make it this small? (6 1/2" square)... no. Okay, that's the size then.... oh crap! :)
I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a Mac over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.
Nice... base a comparison using two OSes that you cannot even buy anymore: OS 9 (at best) and NT 4.
While you're at it, I have a 486 66 MHz with 16M of memory running DOS that can't run Halo 2. PC addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a PC over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.
I watched my 2 friends take apart a Mac mini yesterday in iChat using 2 iSights (one here, one in US).
It took them less than 30 minutes to take everything back, explain me and themselves what they were doing (there were other people there watching it too), and put everything back. I took several snapshots during the takeapart - which is good since they forgot to use their cameras...
Actually, pretty amazing. That Mac that is, but as well how good quality of video I had.
The first thing I wanted to do when I saw those Macs was to take one apart. Now seen one taken apart, took pictures of it, and will take one apart as soon as I have one myself... So yes, not news seeing the contents of them.
There was actually an Ask Slashdot on this question a few days ago, so you might want to take a look at it.
That being said, in what way is the Mac mini not a "real computer"? It is a Unix system under the hood, after all. I bet your wife would like MacOS X a lot more than Linux or Windows, neither of which does nearly as well on the "cute and cuddly" test.
D
My question is this. What PCs are currently on the market to compete with this? When my wife asks for the "cute little MAC", what real computer can I buy instead?
Personally, I don't think your "wife" really cares what you buy, as long as you keep her properly inflated.
Fortunately even really high quality RAM (like Corsair) in the PC3200 (faster than the Mac mini uses) 1Gig DIMM variety with 2.5-3-3 timings, still cost far less than what Apple charges. Even if you pay Apple $50 to install it for you, you're going to save some real money there.
The thing I'm concerned with upgrading is the HD - I really want a 7200rpm drive in mine (Hitachi makes a nice 60GB model).
First of all, it's "Mac" not "MAC".
Second of all, it's "Apple" not "Mac".
Third of all, there are no currently no PCs that can compete AT ALL if you are talking about form factor (size, db rating, features).
A) I am making this post from a TiBook running Debian. Debian has one of the best PPC ports out there. I think the Mini will most likely run Debian very nicely.
B) Everyone is sick of the stupid clock speed per dollar argument. It's lame. Quit assuming that everyone out there cares about raw CPU power first and foremost, or shut up.
From the article: "As I stated in my previous column, 'machines like the mini or the cheap Dell desktop are underpowered for advanced users, but both will suffice for their target market.'"
Underpowered? What does an "average advanced user" do to need more than a one gigahertz processor? I'm currently running a PII/350, which is a bit slow for my needs (some movies skip a bit and the browsing is not as smooth as I wish it would be), but I'll be quite happy with, let's say, 800 MHz PIII.
I do some programming, some typesetting, edit some sound samples, why should I need more than 1,2 GHz Mac Mini?
Allright, editing half a GB photographs in Photoshop would probably suck on the machine, but that's not "advanced user", thats "professional" in my terms...
For $99 you can purchase Mac OS X and get real live tech support for problems that (probably won't) pop up.
From your comment I am not certain that you realize the $499 Mac mini comes with OS X, there is no need to purchase Mac OS X for $99.
Or am I the one who is confused?
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
I wouldn't be as negative on Linux as you are - surely it should be admitted that the "kids", in the long term, have created a high-quality product that works well for a large variety of applications, especially for knowledgeable users.
In my mind, though, it just doesn't match up well to a bunch of user interface obsessives over at Apple Computer. Can you imagine the meetings, with Steve obsessing on the exact shade of aqua blue to use for the default button on a form? I can imagine hours of bone-grinding tedium for the other folks on the team, while Steve pushes and shoves and demands as close to absolute perfection as we can get on this planet.
I don't see Open Souce folks doing that. They're too nice. They don't really care about the shade of aqua blue on their buttons at all. And none of them have much tolerence for ten hour meetings. They'll just use the same ugly shade Windows does and go on with their lives.
That's why Open Source software is never going to win on the cool factor when pitted against Steve Jobs and pals.
I don't think I'd enjoy working for Steve. But from the outside, the polished perfection he gives his products is second to none. that's the first thing I love about the Apple platform.
The second thing is that it gives you a near-perfect blend of Open Source software for web development, and commercial software for video editing, animation and word processing. So far, the commercial programs for those purposes are superior to their open source alternatives. So you can use open source for what it's great for, and proprietary software for what it's great for.
Neither of those advantages exist in Linux, and they are, broadly speaking, why I'm a Mac user nowadays and not a Linux user. So I join your puzzlement; I don't understand why someone buying into Apple hardware would not want their sofware as well.
So I'd certainly be interested in hearing peoples' responses to this question, and hopefully this less inflammatory post will help get reasonable people out of the woodwork.
D
Mod parent down - this is a cut and paste dupe of a different thread on /.
> > So, what are the reasons to run Linux on Mac Mini?
> Because you can.
That's also a reason to jump of a bridge e.g. a stupid reason, isn't it?
I know you're trolling, but here's a question for you.
What hard drive controllers are you using in each machine?
If both machines are using ATA-33 or ATA-66 controllers, it's a fair comparison. If the PPro box is using an upgraded controller but the Mac is still using its stock SCSI (which, admittedly, isn't all that great compared to modern ATA, but we ARE talking about a Mac from 1996 here), then this is obviously a very UNfair comparison.
Also, you don't say what OS you're running, but the disk drivers from early PPC Mac OS versions are horribly slow. If the drivers haven't ever been updated since the machine was new, I'm not the least bit surprised that you're seeing very slow disk copies.
Finally, how much RAM does the PPro have?
p
In Korea, long hair is for old people!
YHBT. YHF. STFU.
I just love my Mac mini, except I still prefer Firefox over Safari, but other than that it rocks! !.25 gig is plenty of speed for everything that I do . Now when my Apple keyboard arrives Mon. I will be complete once again.
Depends on how you look at it. What are the possible outcomes? The positives and the negatives. It all depends.
Dude, I don't think that's actually Jason Kottke. I linked to it in my original post because it's a pretty well-known troll, or so I thought.
The title says it all... http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/powerpc/inst all
I like suggestions, but I don't like contributing towards them.
Assuming your wife is after a Mac for the two main reasons why people buy Macs (the OS, and it just works), you're not going to find a PC on the market that compares to the Mac Mini. You can certainly find PC's the same size - just check out the Mini-ITX platform.
However, a preliminary look-through suggests that in this size range, you're going to get more bang for your buck with the Mac Mini. (I'm assuming, that, like most other Mac-disparaging PC users, you're a Megahertz Weenie.)
A good example of what I can find at CappuccinoPC.com is a 1ghz Celeron with only 128MB RAM, a 20GB HD, a CD-ROM drive (as in, no DVD, no burning), and a crap graphics card. For a price tag of $580.
To get it to something comparable to the Mac Mini, you're going to have to upgrade to a 1.26ghz PIII ($155), 256MB RAM ($55), a 40GB HD($30), a CD-RW/DVD combo ($60, $70 for slot loading), and add Windows XP ($119 for Home, $159 for Pro). Meaning that a comparable PC in the same form factor will cost you $920 - $970. And you're still stuck with a crap graphics card. I'm not sure if you get a sound card. On top of all that, 256MB RAM is the most you can get, and all the other upgrades (wireless, bluetooth, etc.) are more expensive than the same upgrades for the Mac Mini.
MAC makes computers now?
> > > > So, what are the reasons to run Linux on Mac Mini?
> > > Because you can.
> > That's also a reason to jump of a bridge e.g. a stupid reason, isn't it?
> Depends on how you look at it. What are the possible outcomes? The positives and the negatives. It all depends.
Exactly my point. And the original poster was obviously asking about the positives, but you are not going to share them with us, are you?
I've seen this argument on several Mac mini related threads lately.
My theory is that it is a new troll. The "Macs aren't cheap enough" troll cannot possibly hold a candle anymore to the $499 mini's price tag. OS X is more powerful than XP Pro, and with the other software (iPhoto = Adobe Photo Album, etc.) it's got at least $499 worth of software on board.
Macs have supported right-click mice since Jobs came back in 1998 (or was it '97?), or you can hold control and click to get the same effect with the Apple one-button mouse. Since you supply the mouse when you buy a mini, the tired mouse argument is dead as well.
So now the people that fight for the glory of the outdated x86 architecture, especially the Windows users, feel obligated to call the mini "not a real computer" because it's a Mac or it's not powerful enough (1.25 GHz G4?! Not powerful @ $499?!) or they don't understand the GUI, etc.
It's the new Mac troll. Guess we need to get used to it, since it's all we'll hear on Mac threads when browsed at -1 for a long, long while.
I know that in iLife 05, iDVD will install even if you don't have a superdrive. Does anyone know if it works with external DVD drives?
I've got an external firewire Sony DVD+-R/RW drive. If it will work, I could just get the combo-drive model.
I know there was a hack that would allow non superdrive systems to use iDVD, but was wondering if it was now part of the official build of iDVD.
Failing directly buring in iDVD - i believe it now supports creation of disk images. Are these standard disk images that I would be able to burn to the DVD drive outside of iDVD, or are they some sort of "iDVD-only" disk image?
Anyone know?
Well, not bad for 0.8 GHz, heh
You can defy gravity... for a short time
A quick check of http://www.apple.com/macmini/software.html would show you that the mac mini comes with osX along wuat a lot of other software.
I hate it when people talk about photos they took or video they captured but don't bother to provide a link to see them! What's the point? Like we can read your mind or something?
It's not just the same comment over and over again, it was also a story last week.
I guess some PC users are just jealous :).
Yaz.
I've read lots of reports that under light use the fan is either very quiet or does not run at all. Can anyone who actually has a Mini confirm whether under light load the fan runs at all (and not just "whisper quiet" or "dunno if it's the HD or the fan")? I'd order one immediately if someone can actually confirm that the fan rarely runs (as opposed to running at low speed), just like my iBook.
ATA/100 means 120 GB is the max, right? You need ATA/133 to go over 128 (or 137 or whatever) GB?
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Jeez, does this need to be spelled out every single time? Yes, OS X is a great OS and a great UNIX. But some people, sometimes, just want to run Linux, and they want to run it on Apple hardware. I will be using my mini as a web server (apache, php, postgres, mysql, gallery, geeklog, and more) and everything I need works fine under OS X. If someone else wants a wsebserver in a tiny package BUT they have the desire or need to do it all in Linux, why shouldn't they?
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Can you seriously imagine Apple doing that? C'mon.
You posted this exact same message with SGI instead of Mac in response to one of my posts a year or so back.
... upload such a post.
Since that is so, it clearly has no factual content and should be ignored.
I'm not angry, just puzzled as to why anyone would bother to write... um
D
I hope you got a laugh out of the other reply to your post, which was an ancient troll. He didn't even update the model numbers and mhz ratings he used, how sloppy was that?
But understand that there are two types of customer. One type, and I fear the most common, looks at the details of a product and tries to compare it to others using a laundry list of features. For instance, a computer with an 80gb hard drive is better than one with 40. One with 512mb is better than one with 256mb. This completely ignores whether the products are well designed and assembled, whether they run MacOS X or Windows, and so on. This type of buyer drives the market because he/she/it is most common. It's much easier to describe something in numbers than in depth.
People who appreciate Apple products tend to look more at the whole product than the specifications, and they realize that while Apple isn't the cheapest company in the world, it makes fabulous things because it sets out from the start to do just that.
The two types of customer really don't understand each other very well, and I think that's why there is so much passion between pro and anti-Apple factions. One point of view simply cannot understand the other.
One thing that does intrigue me is that obvious valid anti-Apple arguments are rarely seen. For instance, you have to re-purchase much of your software if you want to use an Apple computer to its full potential. If you have Office, you need Apple Office. If you have Adobe products, you need to upgrade them. And so on.
The best anti-Apple argument is that many people fear change and going to something different. I've known people like that and they are perhaps the hardest type of person to deal with. This is largely disregarded on Slashdot simply because most Slashdot people are happy to learn about new operating systems and user interfaces, but it is a genuine problem.
So yes, there are lots of trolls and they change but little over the years. Perhaps they are simply envious of the cohesiveness of the Apple community and its obvious love of the products. That's something very unusual in this day and age, and we should celebrate it. Don't kowtow to the God Steve, but don't ignore his virtues either.
D
That is one of the reasons why it is so cheap.
Sorry, no. If Apple really wanted to have a $499 computer, and components and labor cost over $400, they'd just throw in OS X free/underpriced. They're Apple. They can expect the profit on the Mac Mini to exceed any losses by not charging for OS X.
It is software, after all. Copying software has effectively zero marginal cost. The only question is whether to consider the profit as OS X profit or Mac Mini profit.
I have come to the conclusion that I will buying one of these and replacing my lilksys wireless router with it. It's about time I got a legitimate home network setup, and this is a great motivation.
That $580 PC is absurdly overpriced, unless it includes a monitor. Which the Mac doesn't.
You fail it.
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
If it's so overpriced, I would love to see an example of one that is reasonably priced.
Or is your definition of overpriced, "Anything that doesn't have a big blue Dell or a big green e on the case." 'Cause neither of them sell anything in this form factor, so they're not really very good references for comparison.
And no, it includes neither a keyboard, nor a monitor. It does come with a little stand so you can turn it on its side, though.
Yeah, it would be nice if you could hook up a VGA monitor. You know, using some sort of adaptor. Like a DVI -> VGA adaptor. It would be really nice if Apple would even throw it in the box!
Oh, wait, they do!
Research first next time.
Great post, but you missed one key factor, in the fact that your premise was entirely flawed.... we want ALL AROUND intelligence.
The first thing I noticed was lack of an analog monitor connection. This automatically drives up the price for most would be buyers looking to replace their PCs. Most users would rather spend $500 on a new PC and use their existing montior, thna be forced to buy a DVI compliant (read: flat screen) monitor.
True. That why the Mini comes with a DVI-to-VGA adaptor, genius.
"Connect your USB keyboard and mouse. Then hook up your DVI or VGA display (adapter included)."
Problem solved. Except there never was a problem.
The first thing I noticed was lack of an analog monitor connection.
You couldn't have been looking at a Mac Mini if you didn't notice the analog video output. DVI-I is not a digital only connector, it contains pins for both digital and analog signals. To connect the mini to a VGA monitor all you need is the right cable.
It's just an old troll that the slashbots like to upload.
In talking to PC users about this, I think what it comes down to is that a lot of PC users primarily stick with PCs because they are familiar with it. They don't Macs because they are unfamiliar, do things differently, and the people wear too damn many black turtlenecks. (Well, honestly, I see nothing wrong with this last reason.) More than that, they see the Mac as a toy.
But when it comes down to it, most PC users I have met who talk about how silly Apple computers are either haven't really even used a Mac, or have only used it for a few days or a week. Most of them don't seem to even realize that Mac OS supports multi-button mice and scroll wheels. Oftentimes, the criticisms aren't researched (I know this because they are wrong). Other times, the criticisms seem to be based on the idea that everyone should have a l33t0 gaming machine or a weather modeling workstation. I am always amused by people who complain about the lack of games available for OS X when the only two games they own are The Sims and Civ3
I suppose it's popular among Mac users to offer a complete psychological breakdown as to why PC users like to rip on Macs so much, but I won't bother. I'll just say that it seems that while I have met a few people who have seriously considered and tried both and ended up choosing Windows because they just prefer the platform (people who need to play Half-Life 2 aside), it was definitely just a few of them.
On the other hand, I know it's not too uncommon for PC users to wonder at how devoted Mac users are to their platform - a column on it shows up in some PC magazine a couple times every year. Here's a hint: it has absolutely nothing to do with SPEC benchmarks, application support, shooting demons with shotguns, or even aesthetics.
what's next? you're gonna complain about the 1 button mouse (or the fact that they don't bundle it)
I bought my Mac mini this morning (waited in line in the 18 degree temps outside the Apple store in Kansas City so I could be fifth in line!) and have been working with it all day. Of the more interesting things I've noticed: System Profiler indicates that I have 256MB of PC3200 RAM installed... and I thought these things came with PC2700! I am going to buy myself a putty knife and will get back later with info and a picture or two of what I find inside...
For you PC (ab)users (I'm now in recovery on this point!) who are sitting on the fence wanting to get one of these but don't want to loose the functionality of all your Windows software, have no fear. Just go download the Windows Remote Desktop Connector and get cooking. Among the neat features, you can map the drives on your Mac to the remote PC allowing you to move files back and forth between the PC and the Mac with the utmost of ease! :-)
I can think of a reason. if someone were a die hard F/OSS person, they wouldn't want to use proprietary software for philosophical reasons, but they still might want the nifty hardware. Quite recently, it was considered hip amongst a certain segment of linux developers to sport Apple laptops with linux installed. They liked the nifty hardware.
I'm a die hard kool aid drinking card carrying Apple zealot, myself. But that's one possible reason, and I think it's a valid one.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
It comes with a DVI to VGA converter, so this is a non-issue.
- actually 1GB memory can be had for $85.
l
Overall mini is pretty good, but the disk is roughly like iBook, that is half the speed of eMac, (BTW eMac is a gem, it beats new iMAC G5 in most tests). Going FireWire or USB2 on mini is no solution, they are half as slow as internal even with fast drives (thus 4 times as slow as latest eMac). They have 60Gb/7200 internal on order so check them later to see if this solves disk problem.
http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=33&a=4922
- macintouch has a decent performance review. http://www.macintouch.com/perfpack/comparison.htm
sorry, actually FW on mini is imperceptibly faster than internal, it is USB2 that sucks
You are the one who is confused. That is one of the reasons why it is so cheap.
According to Apple the $499 Mac mini comes with:
- Mac OS X Panther
- iLife '05 (GarageBand, iMovie, iDVD*, iPhoto, iTunes)
- Quicken 2005
- and two games Nanosaur 2 and Marble Blast Gold
* previously, Apple has not included iDVD on systems that do not have a Super Drive, and therefore, no DVD authoring capability.
Thanks for the FUD.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
No troll here. I am excited for the Mac mini, but it there some technical reason uncovered that helps explain the whole port fiasco?
The Mac mini is supposed to be either a "Switcher's Mac" or a Mac for IT pros who are going to hook it to a KVM, or lastly a home entertainment server. In any of those cases, the ports standard on the Mac mini (DVI/USB) are a bad choice.
Where are the VGA out and PS/2 keyboard and mouse ports? I see that for $20 you can buy a DVI -> VGA adapter, but I don't see any PS/2 keyboard -> USB adapter. Why doesn't it just COME WITH these things in the box. Could such items cost more than a couple bucks per unit to include?
Switchers only have VGA and PS/2 devices. Only high end KVMs support DVI and USB. What the hell is going on in Mission Control?
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
It wasn't really so much hip but rather that the iBook was a very good value in terms of what you got for a laptop. G3s&G4s are far better about low power consumption and heat than P4s; which in a laptop resulted in the G3s being almost comparable to the Pentium Ms which were much more expensive.....
Hey, I didn't mean to imply that any iBook toting linux developer was a poseur, I just meant it was a popular choice. Because it is nifty hardware. And I personally know one prominent developer who's more or less been won over by OS X, though he continues to develop for linux because it's still the good cause worth fighting for.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
You can use the free Patchburn to enable burning from Apple's iApps with nonsupprted burners.
One thing that does intrigue me is that obvious valid anti-Apple arguments are rarely seen. For instance, you have to re-purchase much of your software if you want to use an Apple computer to its full potential. If you have Office, you need Apple Office. If you have Adobe products, you need to upgrade them. And so on.
I am switching, and there is no software I need to buy. Ok, most of my games won't work, but hey, I've played them already.
Think about what software you really use on a day to day basis. Now go down to an Apple store and try out the software that is provided, and see if it isn't good enough or better.
Thats not to say I think everyone should switch. I'm only switching because I don't use my x86 machine for gaming anymore (consoles are cheaper) and I don't want to ever have to open my computer case ever again. Of course I didn't have to change to Apple to achieve that, but it was a lot easier, and it is so damn cute.
Really, I am just switching 'cause the Mac Mini looks cute.
>>8600/300 w/64 Megs of RAMa ts/powermac_8600_300.html but if there has been little or no maintainance in 7 years: yes, grinding halts happen.
Nice machines, http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac/st
I feel sorry for the machine. And for you, having to work with it. Poor bastards.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
O'Reilly has a useful article on Mac Mini information for Linux / Windows users.
The PC Weenies: 11 Years of Online Tech 'Too
For the record, I purchased a new iBook at the start of December 2004, non Superdrive, and received all of the software on that list apart from Quicken. Apple have shipped iDVD with non superdrive systems before.
If you use Office, you'll probably wind up buying Office. At $150 it doesn't exactly break the bank, but it's pretty stiff in comparison to the cost of using your old copy, or (more common, I fear) "liberating" it from work.
If you like the Apple look, I think you'll be very happy as a switcher since the whole OS is designed that way. It really is a fabulous experience.
Hope you enjoy!
D
She keeps asking when we are to get married :)
Yes, that's what I meant -- the kernel source is available, not because it's the least complex part of the OS, rather, it's available partly because it's one of the most complex pieces, and there are a lot of super-smart people on the internet who know kernel space inside and out. And believe me, it's nice having the source available ... there have been times where some code I was writing was returning some strange error, and the man pages didn't give much of a clue, and Google didn't, either. I just snarfed the XNU source, grepped for the error I was seeing, and by looking at the source for the kernel function I was calling (and following the code to see what would make it return the error I was seeing), I found that I was populating a structure incorrectly.
I love open source :-)
Regards,
John
Falling You - beautiful
The page you were looking at is here:
http://www.apple.com/promo/printoutcashin/
The page I was looking at is here:
http://www.apple.com/promo/
Apple didn't update the page i was looking at, but did update the page you saw.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
Does anyone know if Apple's USB keyboard (not wireless) works with PCs?
For what it's worth, I managed to easily and quickly open up my Mini with a simple putty knife (and no scratches to the plastic or aluminum!) and sure enough, there was a 256MB stick of Samsung PC3200 RAM (Apple advertises these as coming with PC2700). I removed that stick and replaced it with a 512MB PC3200 (CL 2.5) Mushkin stick (my WinXP Pro box will have to do with only one of two of these sticks for now), replaced the cover and booted up. The performance increase was noticeable and immediate; the NewEgg.com order for a 1024MB stick of PC3200 goes out tomorrow! (Supposedly the Mini will only use PC3200 at PC2700 speed, but when the PC3200 is only $4.50 more at NewEgg, why not get the faster chip?)
/. and I presume nobody reading this is all too interested in either the RAM stick that was in my Mini or the putty knife used to open up the box...
I did snap a couple pictures with my Nikon D70 but I decided against posting them since there are already several links to pictures of deconstructed minis in various places on
Yep. The Command (Apple) keys works as the Windows key. The volume controls even work on XP it seems.
Depends on your circumstances obviously. The form factor is very tempting. Myself I'm waiting for the second iteration. This is primarily a desktop machine and as such should have a disk that is as fast as that in current eMac. Right now disks in Mini are two times slower than in eMac! That is SLOW. External FW drives even with fast 7200 drives are equally slow, USB2 is much much worse! Otherwise perfect machine for everyday use.
Apple needs to do 3 things in second generation.
a) make HD at least as good as in the current eMac.
b) redo USB2 and Firewire. They suck now, and suck badly.
c) add optical audio.
Perfect machine then.
Dell did try, but they sold virtually none. Just seems the form factor's a killer for PC buyers and a USP for Mac buyers. Weird.
It's worse than that. Each side thinks the other side is stupid.
If you have Office, you need Apple Office. If you have Adobe products, you need to upgrade them. And so on.
Largely true, but let me correct you on a small point. Adobe Photoshop Elements 2.0, for example, shipped with both the Windows version and the MacOS version on the same CD-ROM (and worked with the same serial number). Unfortunately I don't think they do that anymore with their new version, but it clearly could've been done if the vendors wanted to. Myst II: Riven is another example that I know of.
Also, it depends on what kind of "need" you have with these Windows apps. Some needs can be satisfied by running under VirtualPC, which is still something you have to pay for, but at least isn't a total replacement of your software library.
Cool, isn't Momentus the seagate drive which is intended to be used in 24/7 roles?
The 2.5" drive thing worried me, but if this is the case I might consider one.
Well, that's hardly encouraging. That it's even being mentioned by MacWorld, whose job is generally to cheer for Apple products, is significant.
Small form factor PC's have struggled mightily to reduce noise, with minimal but increasing success. Apple might have learned from the PC sector's improvements and produced a design with better heat exchange. One obvious direction is being pursued by Hush.
Just go download the Windows Remote Desktop Connector and get cooking
I use RDC on my Mac to access a W2K server that has Terminal Services ON -- but wasn't set up by me. Would you know how to set up Terminal Services on a PC running W2K Professional? Thanks!
I ordered one online before they were on sale at the stores. The estimated ship date is Feb 17th! Now I am wondering if I should just cancel my order and go to the store. Of course I would have to fight the results of the blizzard, but I wouldn't have to wait a month...
Lasers Controlled Games!
At the retailer where I work, I have seen several of those, more often than other brands, come DOA. In fact, I just had another one last night. I don't particularly trust the current offerings by Seagate and this comes just 3 months after I rip apart my Powerbook to put one in.
Personally, I'd prefer a PCI-X slot so I could throw an Infiniband adapter in there.
Clear, Dark Skies
I was under the impression that you could not use a windows iPod with a MAC.
Is that true?
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Why? I'm still getting more CPU cycles for my $$$ on the PC platform, and I still prefer Linux to OSX. I have a beige box that I've held on to for the last seven years, and I've upgraded the CPU, motherboard, and memory painlessly and inexpensively every year. For about $200 and an hour with a screwdriver, I double my CPU speed every year. Most of what I do with a PC is rip CDs, so CPU counts. I also use Fritz 8, which is both CPU hungry and not available for the Mac. Thanks to Wine, Fritz is almost fully functional on Linux. It would be 100% functional if it weren't copy protected.
On the Linux end, I like running apt-get and having the latest and best Linux software available for free, without waiting for a keynote speech or dropping $100 at the Apple store. I even prefer gtkpod over iTunes. On the low end, my mini-ITX box is easier to administer from the command line, it was cheaper than any Apple offering ($300), and it's completely fanless.
I'm not an Apple hater. I've owned a Mac since '95, I learned C with ThinkC, and in the early 90s I spent about a year programming 68000 assembler. I just stopped using Mac as my desktop box in about '97 when Linux took off and 3D gaming became possible.
The only difference between a Mac iPod and a Windows iPod is the formatting of the HD. Because Macs understand FAT32, a Windows iPod will work on a Mac, but because Windows doesn't understand HFS+, a Mac iPod will not work with a PC.
Clear, Dark Skies
Question: Will the 1.26 GHz P-III perform better or worse than the 1.25 GHz G4? Assume you're running XP, as that's what you stated, and what most consumer-grade-consumers would run.
The Spoon
Updated 6/28/2011
You could always just install Linux on your Mac.
Well, I was being polite, of course, but you could also say I was focusing on the root cause - because they don't understand each other, they think the other side is stupid. It's almost like they're different cultures.
Once upon a time, a computer was not a commodity, and the various brands of computer were truly unique and special things. I miss those days, and of course Apple Computer is now the sole heir to that tradition.
Digital camera makers also package Photoshop Elements in that way. And when I bought Macromedia Flash/Education Edition (I'm working on multimedia projects for education nowadays and was eligible), it was also Mac+PC. I don't know if the regular (non-education) CD was Mac+PC, but the education one certainly was.
D
I have installed Linux on the Mac, several times. I ended up with a slow Linux box. I'd consider it again if I were to ever buy a laptop. I like the iBook, and it's a good balance of design, size, weight, battery life, and CPU power for the price. On the desktop, I'm not constrained by those concerns, and I go for the most CPU cycles for the money.
Anandtech has a review and they have found some different hardware from spec.
p =5
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2328&
"Although it uses desktop memory, the Mac mini uses a 2.5" notebook hard drive. The base $499 version comes with a 40GB drive and the $599 version comes with a 80GB drive. What is surprising however is that some units appear to come with Seagate's 5400RPM Momentus ST94011A drive, including the unit reviewed here today. The 5400RPM drive features a 2MB buffer and is fairly snappy for a 2.5" drive, it's still much, much slower than a 3.5" desktop drive, but it's a nice surprise to see a 5400RPM drive used in the mini. We have been getting reports of some units coming with 4200RPM drives however, right now it seems to be luck of the draw as to which drive you get. "
and
"The other surprise we got was that the memory installed in the mini was in fact CAS 3 DDR400 and not DDR333 as Apple's spec sheet suggests. Granted anything above DDR333 does absolutely nothing for the mini as the G4 is FSB limited to the bandwidth of single channel DDR333 SDRAM."
http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20050124-newslet ter.xml
Whoohoo....that is what I want to do as soon as I get one....should be fun.
This is seagates 2.5" drive for the server market.
/
Spins at 10K....
http://www.seagate.com/products/discfamily/savvio
Hmm, not sure how this is trolling.
Yeah, as long as you clean install and de-frag every now and then, it's a perfectly viable machine for general office work and some retro-gaming.
In many cases, when someone complains of their older machine not running, it is generally poor maintenance, expecting more than the machine can do, or my favourite. Physical ram of 64MB with virtual memory set to 760MB.
-- Using the preview button since 2005
Well as many people pointed out... I stand corrected *looking at my new mac mini*