Sega Done with Sports, Take-Two Launches Label

Gamespot has the news that Take-Two Interactive's MLB deal has already had repercussions. Sega has gotten out of the sports business, selling their internal sports studio Visual Concepts to Take-Two for a bargain price. This newest addition in hand, Take-Two has turned around and launched a new game label entitled 2K games. From the article: "2K Games will incorporate Take-Two's internally owned development studios Visual Concepts, Kush Games, Indie Built, Venom Games, PopTop Software, and Frog City Software, as well as the team at Take-Two Licensing..." This new label will have a subsidiary specifically tuned for sports titles. As expected, it appears the sports game market is now going to fall to only a few companies. Commentary on Greg Costikyan's Blog

Comments

Good luck to them

[squidsoup]

Hopefully Take2 will continue to develop and challenge EA's near monopoly of the sports genre.

Re:Good luck to them

[mcc]

The thing that worries me is I do not see a duopoly as much better than a monopoly. I pretty much trust TakeTwo and approve of their policies and games, but in a long term sense if we just get shaken down to a point where there's just two companies that make sports games* and either you buy from one or the other, that's not good either for the games or the health of the overall video game market. I don't want video games to turn into coke vs. pepsi. I want to be able to maintain real diversity and opportunity.

* Not counting Nintendo's licensed-character offerings. Not to say they aren't good games, but they're "outside" the sports market, so to speak, NBA Street 3 nonwithstanding; it's basically just if the only way you can succeed in a market is to sneak in by keeping your feet firmly planted in some other market, that's not good. If that makes sense?

Re:Not again

[Crash24]

Nah, only old Koreans RTFA.

Besides, it looks like Take 2 is going to be EA's main sports competitor...I'm thinking of an Firefox and IE analogy.

Oh yeah, Sega

[EggMan2000]

They got pwned in the console market (despite better games and platform) And now they are getting pwned in the software market as well? (despite very good games)

Is Sega the new Apple?

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[LeiGong]

Is Sega the new Apple?
Don't you mean 'Is Sega the old Apple?' Last time I checked Apple's last quarter was the strongest in its history.

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[badasscat]

Is Sega the new Apple?

They're not the "new" Apple, they're more comparable to the Apple of the mid 1980's. You know, a company without a clear direction, (hopefully) approaching the bottom end of their inverse market share bell curve. I still say that getting out of the hardware market is the worst thing Sega ever did - the effect it had was to completely demoralize the company. Many of their top creative minds left the company, and those that remained just haven't seemed to be putting their hearts into the games they've been creating lately.

I guess my main argument with your statement (part of which I didn't quote, but it's there) is that Sega still makes "very good games". Visual Concepts, their sports studio, made some decent sports sims (though NFL 2K5 was buggy as all hell), but Sega themselves haven't made anything I've been excited about since Super Monkey Ball on the GameCube.

As for this deal, don't forget that part of the deal is that Visual Concepts make games for Sega's arcade business. So to Sega's mind, this probably puts them back where they were in the early 80's only without having to do any of the actual work. Not sure it's actually going to play out that way, though; it doesn't seem like Sega has much of a future to me. Wouldn't be surprised if they get bought themselves at some point (something I argued would never happen 10 years ago, but times change and the mighty have fallen and fallen hard).

btw, I do believe Sega is actually profitable, but at the cost of, to quote George Costanza, "significant shrinkage." They seem to contract further and further every year and it's the only way they've kept their head above water. This is not how you succeed in business - to succeed in business requires both profitability and growth. Sega is in no position to grow and at this rate will eventually implode; they will cease to exist even as an IP holding company, as they will have sold off everything worthwhile to other publishers.

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[Brainboy]

I think he means that Sega is the new old Apple. You know, when Jobs wasn't there.

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[Stormwatch]

Yeshua, or Jesus, or "the Christ", was just a guy who, a long time ago, got on the bad side of a political and military empire, and got in really deep trouble because of that.

And somehow, I am supposed to think that his death (and not anything he had done or said or written while he was alive), around two thousand years ago, in a far distant land where I have never been, is not only somehow relevant to my life, but essential to a supposed life that is claimed to exist after death.

I could say "sorry, man, but I don't buy it" - except it'd be a lie, because I am not sorry! I am proud and glad to say I don't buy a single line of it, or any other religion.

* (except Wozniak-worshipping, because WOZ IS GOD. Or Bob. Whatever.)

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[EggMan2000]

They're not the "new" Apple, they're more comparable to the Apple of the mid 1980's.

That's an excellent point. Gah! I can't even mention Apple without getting flagged a troll.

My abbreviated point was that Sega had a better console, but still lost out. The narrative is similar for Apple. I own a few Sega consoles and a few Macs. I'm working on convincing my wife we *need* a Mac Mini.

As for no good games from Sega: Super Monkey Ball is an instant classic. I do tend to agree though, that Sega is fading into history. Hopefully they can go out as a classic.

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[Cryect]

I'm afraid that Sega has had very few very good games recently. They have had a lot of average games mainly since the death of the Dreamcast besides for a few.

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[Deadguy2322]

Nice try, but Sammy bought SEGA last year.

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[suffe]

approaching the bottom end of their inverse market share bell curve

Wow, I wish I would have known about the existance of this kind of thing. So what you are saying is - buy Sega stock like crazy, they are heading for infinite market share. Nice advice. I think I'll go sell all my stuff now and invest.

Not sure it's actually going to play out that way, though; it doesn't seem like Sega has much of a future to me.

Damn, make up your mind. I've allready sold all my stuff and now I see this.

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[master_p]

I still say that getting out of the hardware market is the worst thing Sega ever did

They couldn't have done otherwise. The Dreamcast was a good console (I own one!), although it's graphics were already outdated by the time it was released in Europe. And Sega did not have the marketing muscle of Sony: the hype that the PS2 could do 75,000,000 polygons killed the Dreamcast.

Their missed opportunity was when they had the Model 3 coin-op technology and no-one else had that kind of graphics, either in the coin-op or console or PC business. They should have done a console based on Model 3. It would kick serious ass. Sega made itself a top name in the arcades due to the 3d power of its arcade machines, but its home consoles could not do 3d to the same level. When they realized that (and developed Dreamcast), it was too late.

They could have saved the Dreamcast though by developing a new version with updated graphics hardware. After all, the Dreamcast graphics processor, a PowerVR generation 2 GPU, could work in Tiling mode with other PowerVR GPUs.

I guess my main argument with your statement (part of which I didn't quote, but it's there) is that Sega still makes "very good games".

When it comes to console sports, Sega has failed to deliver. Virtua Striker 2 amazed my PS2 owning friends for its graphics, but they preferred their Konami Evolution Soccer, because it is simply head'n'shoulders above VS2. You can even paint your team's logos, shirts in Evolution Soccer!

I am specifically mentioning football (soccer for Americans) because it was the Konami football game that sells PS2s here in Europe. Almost everybody not a hardcore gamer went out and bought a PS2 for that game alone. My wish, and my friends', is for a football game with VS2 graphics and EVS gameplay. Sega failed to recognize that arcades is different market than consoles.

it doesn't seem like Sega has much of a future to me

Me too. They had great arcade games, and they are still kings of the arcade. But they lost the console/PC game market. It's a totally different market. Games at home have to have a serious gameplay; arcades are an extravaganza audiovisual experience that can not easily be replicated at home, but without serious gameplay.

This is not how you succeed in business

Or if you make games that people wanna play. There is a Champions League licence up for grabs. Sega could take the Virtua Striker engine, put in the Champions League teams, put game data editing, put Championship Manager elements (another great game that has sold by the bucketloads) and enjoy a great success. The Champions Leagues games are watched by millions, even billions, of football fans all around the globe, especially South-West Asia (besides Europe, of course).

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[lion2]

Model 3 coin-op technology and no-one else had that kind of graphics, either in the coin-op or console or PC business. They should have done a console based on Model 3. It would kick serious ass. Making a model 3 based console would've been a huge mistake. Model 3 was way too expensive, which is why Sega moved to Dreamcast based arcade hardware, which was actually more powerful.

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[SkyWalk423]

An inverse bell curve does NOT approach infinity, not even close. It would flatten out to zero-growth as x increases.

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[suffe]

True. I surrender and admit fault. Still, where does an inverse bell curve flatten out? At what given level? Come to think about it, I guess a reversed curve as such would still need to contain all possible outcomes (an "area" of 1) and you could thus make some calculations, but it seems very forced.

Still, I am left to wonder if a bell curve is a good thing to use when discussing such things. At any rate, thanks for pointing it out.

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[master_p]

Model 3 was way too expensive

It was not the model 3 arcade board expensive, the arcade cabinet, peripherals and support chips were. Furthermore, mass production would lower the costs.

which is why Sega moved to Dreamcast based arcade hardware, which was actually more powerful

No, the Dreamcast hardware was not more powerful than the Model 3 arcade board. Virtua Striker 2 on Dreamcast has an occasional slow down, where as the Model 3 game does not (I am a fan of the game and I have played extensively both versions).

Furthermore, the developers of the Sega Rally 2 arcaded stated that the Model 3 hardware was better than the Dreamcast. It was in an Edge interview (I am to lazy to search for the specific Edge issue now, otherwise I would tell you the exact details).

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[mink]

The sad thing is 75,000,000 poly is a lie SONY told everyone (developers say they are lucky to get 75K) and people believed it.
I have to say a person has to be a stupid motherfucker to not buy a console and games that are out and fun to play but rather wait a year for empty lies.

DISCLAIMER: I own a PS2 as well as a DC and enjoy a number of games on it, but damn what they did was low and they should be punished for it.

Re:Oh yeah, Sega

[master_p]

Me too. Unfortunately, there is no police on marketing ethics.

Sega Done with Sports?

[Castaa]

I can see it now at EA's corporate offices:

<mr. burns> Excellent... </mr. burns>

Its a real shame too...

[angst7]

I was very pleasently suprised by the great job Sega did with NFL 2K5, and with a $20 price tag it was an unbeatable choice. Unbeatable unless you are EA games protecting your Madden franchise. When I heard they bought exclusive rights I was pretty annoyed. This sort of practice is completely understandable from the prospective of the company seeking to keep market share. But as a customer it still pisses me off. I'm thinking I'll not be buying any sports games for quite a few years.

Re:Its a real shame too...

[cowscows]

While EA has done some undoubtedly crummy things, be generous with the blame. From what I've read, it seems that it was the NFL's idea to go with an exclusive contract, and they requested bids. EA had the most to lose, not to mention a whole lot of resources, so their bid won out. It's crappy what it does to the football game genre, but it sounds like they really didn't have a choice if they wanted to keep producing a very sucessful franchise.

I love football, and I really enjoy watching NFL games, but they suck for going for an exclusive deal. I don't think I'd have any chance in the corporate world, I just can't imagine being that greedy.

Re:Its a real shame too...

[Razzak]

I'm done with football/baseball games until they come up with one of the following

1) A way to make it play more realistic and less video-gameish. sega was better at this than EA is.

2) A way to make 4 player (or 2 players on the same team) actually fun. It stinks.

For now, I'm still playing NHL. Damn 4 player NHL games are fun. Nothing like watching an entire team get checked at once. Switching players is a little insane tho :D

Re:Its a real shame too...

[MaineCoon]

That $20 price tag couldn't have lasted, they had to be losing money on it, or close to it. I think it might have been a ploy to get brand name recognition and establish itself as a brand, steal market share from the entrenched competition, and then once it had a loyal fan base, jack the price up and make up the losses.

Consider: out of that $20, stores keep about $10. After production and console licensing costs, that may have left $6 per unit in revenue. The average game has 3 to 4 times that much gross profit per unit.

Re:Its a real shame too...

[fossa]

Blitz is pretty fun with 4 players, though certainly not realistic.

Re:Its a real shame too...

[LilMikey]

Year over year sports titles don't require near the developer or artist resources a brand spanking new game does. While $20 is exceptionally low year-over-year sports titles don't need to cost as much as their completely new counterparts. But hey, why make $6 a game when you can make $26?

Oh, the irony...

[physicsphairy]

...the irony of computer geeks staying at home playing physical sports on their computers.

Well, I'm not really one to talk: the only 'sport' I play is chess. (I wonder what the odds are of 2K making a killer chess engine?)

Re:Oh, the irony...

[Jerf]

Computer geeks don't play sports games. They play FPS, strategy, and CRPGames. Believe it or not, its jocks and jock wannabes that play sports games.

As jock and jock wannabes outnumber us about 6 or 7 : 1, this is also why "our" hobby of computer gaming is becoming less and less about geeks.

#include <std_generalization_disclaimer>

Re:Oh, the irony...

[Antonymous Flower]

reminds of the film Airborne with Seth Green.

"you said you were the hockey master"
"I meant nintendo Hockey"

Re:Oh, the irony...

[RdsArts]

I wonder what the odds are of 2K making a killer chess engine?

Well, TakeTwo does own Rockstar....

Re:Oh, the irony...

[Cryptnotic]

What the hell are you talking about; Football is just chess with real people.

Not really. Football is more like a real-time strategy game. All of the pieces can move at once and for both sides. In chess, you are limited to one move per player per turn. In chess, both players can see the entire field and the positions of all of the opposing team's pieces. In football, the players (because they are human) only see out of the front 180 degrees of their head and other players are sometimes obscured from their vision. Also, players will disobey orders sometimes. Not so in chess. Of course, with all these limitations, you would think that chess would be simple.

Re:Oh, the irony...

[haystor]

Grand Theft Auto 64: One Night in Bangkok

Re:Oh, the irony...

[phreak64]

And there can't be coincidence in the two areas? Let's see... I have every game console out there, I've got about 160 hours into my WoW character, I've played D&D and work with databases for a living. My friends are all like that to varying extents. Yet I'm still a crazy sports fan that was devastasted on Sunday after the AFC Championship game and still like to go out and play sports with my friends. And all of my friends are like that. It's people that restrict themselves exclusively to some sort of "geek mantra" or "jock mantra" that cause the stigmas of both identities.

Re:Oh, the irony...

[Jerf]

What part of

#include <std_generalization_disclaimer>

did you not understand?

Re:Oh, the irony...

[phreak64]

So generalizations that get modded insightful are groovy as long you include a disclaimer? That doesn't really make the post particularly insightful. Just guilty of perpetuating things that don't need to be perpetuated.

Re:Oh, the irony...

[hal2814]

"Yet I'm still a crazy sports fan that was devastasted on Sunday after the AFC Championship game"

You must spend a considerable amount of your life devastated since Cowher alone has now honked 4 AFC championshp games at home. (And if memory serves correctly, lost an away one as well.)

Since I am also a sports fan (video, real-life spectator, and the occasional playing in a real amateur game):
"coincidence in the two areas"++

Re:Oh, the irony...

[phreak64]

Yeah, it's a hard break. But then, he's also among the NFL elite in terms of total divisional championships won, and never having an elite QB to do it with. I think that if Ben can become a QB along those lines, and we'd have better support on thet front, Cowher could break out of the shadow of one-and-done Marty.

Re:Oh, the irony...

[hal2814]

I think a more important step would be to get Cowher to not panic when falling behind. It seems like every time they trail an opponent, the Steelers go back to their blitzing ways (and I'm not talking about the 4-man pseudo-blitz that is the product of a 3-4 defense). He also used to abandon the run as soon as he fell behind by even the smallest margin but now he's moved to sticking with the run when it should be abandoned (ex. defense stacking the box every down). I don't know which one is worse but neither is a good thing. I think Cowher has the potential to be a multiple Super Bowl winner but he's still on my list of "Coaches who Will Never Win a Super Bowl" (along with such favorites as Martz, Reid, and Dennis Green) until he straightens out a few things in his coaching strategy.

What's that leave from Sega?

[the_skywise]

Super Monkey Ball?
Feel the Magic?

Good games in their own right, but is it enough to keep the once great Sega empire afloat?

Re:What's that leave from Sega?

[pegasustonans]

In a word, "yes." Sega's games are still huge in Japan, no matter what the rest of the world thinks of them.

Re:What's that leave from Sega?

[astrokid]

Off the top of my head
In the tradition of their new Outrun game they could bring out updated classics like Afterburner, Streets of Rage, Altered Beast.
They have plenty of life left in most of their current franchises: Shenmue has a big following, The Virtua Fighter series, Sonic, Phantasy Star and possibly Virtua Tennis (I don't think Visual Concepts developed that).
Their arcade division still has House of the Dead, Initial D, Daytona and Virtua Cop.
Plus they used to bring out quirky games such as Feel the Magic, Super Monkey Ball, Samba De Amigo, and Rez.
Plus any others that I'm sure I missed.

Duke Nukem Forever

[lateralus_1024]

Will this have a negative impact on the Duke Nukem Forever ship date?

Re:Duke Nukem Forever

[SetupWeasel]

"They don't have sarcasm on Betelgeuse, and Ford Prefect often failed to notice it unless he was concentrating."

Re:Duke Nukem Forever

[cgenman]

Will this have a negative impact on the Duke Nukem Forever ship date?

Considering all of the fun we've had at the expense of this title, I'd consider it a positive impact.

Re:Duke Nukem Forever

[Aggrazel]

Comeon moderators? Only you can kill this overused and tired/unfunny cliche... don't spare those points, strike down this crap.

I'm tired of any "Duke Nukem forever" joke being instant karma. For pete's sake, its DONE already, we GET it.

Years too late

[halcyon1234]

Why couldn't have Sega gotten out of the sports market YEARS ago? If they had, there'd be better Genesis selections in the Rummage Bin than the standard "50000 copies of Madden '94"

EA sucks...just ask Sega

[vyke4lyfe]

It's bad now because when you want to purchase a football game, your only choice will be a overpriced over-rated game that comes out every year just so you can have your football team on it. EA will contend it's not a monopoly, but lets be honest with ourselves, who's really going to buy any other title than Madden?

Re:EA sucks...just ask Sega

[Doppler00]

And once EA becomes the only provider of sports games, they will probably freeze gameplay, and only add insignificant features every year.

Essentially, you will probably be paying $50/year just for new stats (which could have easily been downloaded from the internet if they wanted provide that).

Note: I don't play any sports games, so I don't really understand why someone would buy versions 2003,2004,2005 of the same game for the same console. Can someone explain this?

Re:EA sucks...just ask Sega

[smileyy]

Its not that EA doesn't innovate. Its that they make their games into arcade games instead of sports sims. The EA NBA games have been nigh upon unplayable, *even on simulation mode*. The recent ESPN (and whatever they were before that) NBA games have been a far better simulation of actual basketball. I swear...EA NBA is like playing NBA Jam...ugh.

RIP Sega

[B00yah]

Long live the KING! Loved sega sports, since the days of mutant league football and hockey. It's definitely a sad day, and leaves the question, what's left?

Sure they have a few franchises, but that really can only carry them so far as a independant developer. Frankly, I'll keep praying for the DC portable, which would smash face on DS and PSP (and runs off a single chip, so it is plausible)

Re:RIP Sega

[deminisma]

Funnily enough, the "Mutant League" games were actually published by EA, not Sega.

2K games, huh?

[Trogre]

Well, I've played some pretty gosh darn good 2k games, but it seems like a bit of a niche market these days.

Good

[Lord_Dweomer]

You know what? I'm glad. I know this is entirely inevitable, as the companies seek to dominate the market as best they can. This is bad. However, this also means that there will inevitably be a company that is smaller, more agile, and more creative who will eventually shatter any stranglehold they have on the market. Remember guys, people looked past the fact that Grand Theft Auto didn't license car names. It was the gameplay that was revolutionary. Sports games are the same way. The names are important, but anybody can spoof them without needing a license (parody law?).

But now I can't think why I honestly care about this. I don't like sports games at all. I don't play physical sports outside, why would I want to be subjected to them on the computer as well?

Re:Good

[gbdc]

I'd like to suggest that you invent a sport that can be as attractive to the _regular_ people as baseball or basketball. There's a reason that MLB and NBA has established their brand names in professional sports. It'll unfortunately take more than innovative game designers to top the brand power they provide. For example, I don't think NBA is threatended by the street basketball folks no matter how hip or cool they are. In short, I think we have witnessed inevitable (and possibly evil) consolidation of the sports game market. I do feel sorry for Sega for losing the market because they actually innovated enough to become a real threat to EA.

Re:Good

[Chibi]

[some thoughts on GTA snipped]

But now I can't think why I honestly care about this. I don't like sports games at all. I don't play physical sports outside, why would I want to be subjected to them on the computer as well?

I kind of find it amusing that you point out that since you don't engage in an activity in real life, you wouldn't enjoy it on a computer. But prior to that, you talk about Grand Theft Auto! We can assume some combination of the following:

1. It's only a matter of time before you are featured in a Slashdot article where you blame GTA for your criminal activity.
2. You overlooked something.
3. I'm an ass.

Let's assume number 2 (and ignore number 3 ;). Some people like video games as an escape tool/disconnect from reality. This can range from experiences that are fairly realistic to far fantasy/sci-fi. For example, I really like basketball games, but it's been years since I played basketball in real life. I haven't played because I stink, none of my close friends really like it, and I stink. Pop in a video game, and all of the sudden, I can dunk the ball from the free throw line. In another game, I can be a space marine fighting the minions of hell. I'm sure there are plenty of games out there that involve activity we wouldn't be too interested in real life, but somehow work in a video game (dancing, playing bongos, doing favors for whiny strangers, etc).

I agree to an extent about this being an opportunity for a developer with a unique vision on various sports to step in, but will this actually happen? We've got to consider certain things. Some sports nuts are just that - sports nuts. They play these games to run their teams, and they are huge stat trackers. Besides the yearly roster updates, some of these sports games have periodic in-season updates on players, stats, and rosters. So, there is a demand for real info out there. And I'd wager it's pretty big.

The other issue is that, IMO, a lot of these "unique-takes-on-sports" games will probably be niche titles, unless something phenomenal comes along. Niche to me says that it won't make a lot of money. So, that'll make companies less likely to experiment. And, as much as we might want to deny it, companies exist to make money. These yearly sports titles are nice for companies because there's a steady demand for them, and they are pretty dependable revenue generators. Now, these dependable revenue streams are being snatched up by the biggest companies. I think these developments are pretty sad, and overall bad for the industry.

Re:Good

[Kiryat Malachi]

I don't know.

Because they're fun? I don't play football, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.

Re:Good

[PedanticSpellingTrol]

EA's NBA Street was pretty good. Totally offtopic.

Re:Good bye

[randallpowell]

No kidding. My gf got me into football and ESPN was great football game. Now, EA has the sole rights to it and they suck. Maybe I could get their rugby game.

Hope an NBA deal won't push through...

[Regnard]

The NBA was wise not to sign EA's initial offer for exclusivity, but I hear a sweeter deal is in the works...

In my opinion, Sega's 2K basketball series is deeper and more intelligent than EA's Live franchise and it's rather sad if no more future versions of it won't ever get released.

Re:Hope an NBA deal won't push through...

[notque]

Without a doubt at all. In the world.

Live is tired and old. Live 95 was amazing however.

Looks like Sega is exiting all business...

[Humorously_Inept]

They sold their mobile/multipleyer unit to Nokia, they sold their soul to Sammy and now this? Looks like Sega is being nudged out of business alltogether!

Re:Ahhh, i got it !!!!

[randallpowell]

What about the new features like NFL cards, decorating a crib, and even playing against celbs. It's all about the bling and the homies, yo.

Uh, what happened to good sports games?

[Queer Boy]

I stopped playing sports games around the 16-bit era. They weren't fun anymore. What happened to making a sports game fun instead of just some lame franchise game? Now if EA's game sucks or you don't like it, you're SOL for a sports game until next year.

I could be wrong, but I recall games like Double Dribble on NES, Baseball Stars on Neo Geo, and Virtua Tennis on Dreamcast as being fun.

I mean, they can be goofy sometimes but at least Nintendo is still making good sports games.

Re:Uh, what happened to good sports games?

[srNeu]

And Tecmo Bowl on the NES and Super Tecmo Bowl on the sNES.

Thoese were the days when you could play a football game without having to learn 100 different combo's to pass and catch. Sure, the graphics were cheese, but they were fun.

Sports Video Games

[ppp]

...the irony of computer geeks staying at home playing physical sports on their computers.

Actually, sports video games the likes of Madden, NBA Live, etc. aren't really played that much by so-called computer geeks, but mostly by a whole sub-culture of sports video gamers. These sports gamers are primarily interested in the sport simulation angle, and are just as likely to be young and urban, and many play sports. Just watch a Madden Championship tournament sometime and see who's playing.

And that's why having the actual players, stadiums, uniforms etc. is so important to this demographic. So while /.ers are longing for a Mutant League Hockey revivial, EA and Take-Two know where the real money is.

-G
www.g-pix.com

Re:Sports Video Games

[mink]

MLH and Grave Yardage were the games for "the rest of us".
I'd love to call "Kill the quarterback" on a more recent console then a beat up old Genesis.

What's in a name?

[Snoochie Bootchie]

I don't get why people care that much about the team and player names. Dump the money required to license that garbage and diehard fans will do it anyway.

Is not gameplay the thing? That's where the real problem is. "Gary," the avid Madden fan mentioned in Greg Costikyan's blog, is absolutely correct--there's very little difference from year-to-year in the actual gameplay. I'm an NCAA Football fan. I did not buy the 2005 edition because the additions in the 2005 edition weren't that big of a deal. I might pick it up when there's a used copy for $20, but I feel no urgency.

I'll have a ton of fun with randomly generated player names and great gameplay. A static game with graphical facelifts from time-to-time and NFL player names will beg me to spend my money elsewhere.

End of an era

[rinkjustice]

Sega is shrinking, Nintendo are making decisions like a bunch of idiots and hemorraging money like crazy, Atari are ancient history... grim days for old skool console gamers like myself.

Wait.

[pieisgood]

Does this mean sega will start making good games again!?

Re:Good bye

[lachlan76]

Go for real sports, like Aussie Rules or Cricket ;)

*sigh*

[zwilliams07]

Sega needs a dictionary, because I think they got the idea of seppuku wrong. [corporate suicide]

Your reply makes no sense.

[i41Overlord]

First of all, Sega did not make Madden- EA did. That was the best selling game for the Genesis and since then Madden Football is the best selling game franchise of all time.

What kind of company would want to stop producing their #1 product? What kind of business move would that be?

What is Sega smoking?

[i41Overlord]

I loved their consoles, but they decided that it wasn't profitable so they exited the hardware business.

Then a hollow shell of the company continued to produce software for other platforms, and now they announce that they're going to stop producing the most popular games they make (sports games).

What is left for them? Will they just sit there and "exist" but do nothing? Maybe they can pay other game makers to randomly put a Sega banner somewhere. Maybe they'll turn into a new type of corporate entity... "the undead"... a company that doesn't do anything but "exists".... a zombie, the corporate equivalent of a ghost ship.

Re:Good bye

[anopres]

Yeah! I'm in the US and we've been privledged to see Aussie rules football this past year on some public broadcasting stations.

Aussie rules rocks. Incredible athletes, non-stop action and no time for stupid soft drink and automobile commercials.

Costikyan is a uninformed internet blowhard

[Squirrel Killer]

So, Greg Costikyan is a moron right?

"With EA "owning" football and Take Two baseball, that leaves a handful of important sports; FIFA soccer..., basketball, college football, NASCAR, and Formula One. I wouldn't be surprised to see deals made for some of these in the next year."

It's just that FIFA soccer, NASCAR, and Formula One are already exclusive to EA. While the NBA and NCAA both seem to have committed pretty strongly to non-exclusive licensing. Font of wisdom he is not.

PopTop is actually a good brand

[Edmund Blackadder]

It is a really bad idea to destroy the poptop brand. I for one always check out every game (i.e. play the demo) that comes out of poptop. That is mostly the case because I had so much fun playing Railroad tycoon 2. And I am the kind of person that actually buys games.

In fact, a good sign why the poptop brand is so good is that it is already being immitated. I am talking about Popcap software who make cheesy java games (among them insaniquarium which is quite adictive).

Re:Good bye

[randallpowell]

Rugby is good but mauy thai or kickboxing are great sports but too bad ESPN lacks balls and won't show them. Sissies.

sort of...

[Cryptnotic]

We're way off topic here, but obviously Jesus was a human being. If you believe that the truth of the story is unknowable (because of all the hype afterwards), and you believe in Occam's Razor (go with the most likely explanation), then that's what you believe. Jesus was a revolutinoary Jew who wanted to totally reform Judaism. He wanted a religion open to anyone. He wanted to tear down the reliance on the Temple heirarchy (the irony of it is that some of his followers built that up again in a different form). Anyway, the rest of Jesus' teachings can be summed up as follows: "be good to others and good things will happen".

As for the other existance of God idea, it's absolutely impossible to know. I personally belive that it is fundamentally necessary for it to be impossible to know for sure. I mean, if there were irrefutable proof that there was a God and you just didn't know about it, you'd be pretty pissed off. So anyway, realizing that the answer is unknowable, the question is really whether to play the game or not, to believe in something or not to believe in anything. Personally, I like believing in things, in general even if it turns out I'm wrong later.

But anyway, the reason why what he said is still valid is basically because we humans are fundamentally the same as we were 2000 years ago. Evolution has pretty much been stopped. We can't rely on government or corporations or our friends to tell us how to live our lives. We still have to follow all the goals of the game of life (grow, learn, get job, get married, have children, have good experiences). But Jesus sort of says, "If you screw up, don't worry about it. Just be a good person and it'll work out in the end. Oh, and forgive other people who screw up." That's a good philosophy whatever year it is.

Great News

[PhotoBoy]

Now Sega will have to start making games like the ones that made the Dreamcast such and undervalued classic.

Maybe we'll even get that Shenmue 3 I've been despertate to play for years.

Re:Great News

[PhotoBoy]

I'm not a fan of sports games myself so I can't really comment on those, except that the less time Sega spends making sports games for me is a good thing. :p

Re:Great News

[DaleNixon]

I don't think Sammy would let that happen.

Re:End of an era...

[Mr.Dippy]

I don't know about the rest of you but this is going to free up a lot of time for me to go to gym and get back into reading.

Same difference.

[hollismb]

While its seems like a big deal, it's really not. All the really good Sega Sports games (in recent years) were actually developed by Visual Concepts anyway. So, sure, they're not owned by Sega anymore, but the studio making the game still exists, and will still be making sports games. So, that's something.

An #include too late

[LPetrazickis]

#includes go at the top of a file, silly. That way, C++ preprocessor inside my brain can physically parse the disclaimer before getting to your actual code.

Putting an #include at the bottom is like closing the barn doors after the horses have escaped and declared an independent republic where all horses are equal and some horses are more equal than others.

DUUUUUUH!;)

Re:An #include too late

[Jerf]

I guess that explains why it didn't work. I thought std_generalization_disclaimer was a text file containing a string, but if it really re-defined my functions after the fact, no wonder it didn't work like expected.

I'd fix the bug, but the Slashdot source control system leaves something to be desired in that regard. You can only commit once, and never check anything out again. Seriously, who's idea was that?

More information

[Penguuu]

You can find more information about Civilization IV from http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=108 315/

NHL 2004-05

[gfreeman]

They could sell an empty box.

Re:Good bye

[henleg]

EA Games is the king of the hill - what can one say?! Oh well... maybe there will be a new Sega Rally?! :-)