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Open-Source Technique for GM Crops

a_d_white writes "The Biological Innovation for Open Society has developed TransBacter, a new technique for creating genetically modified crops, which is being released as a BioForge project. Their license allows anyone to use and improve the technique as long as improvements are shared with everyone, à la open source. Other techniques for creating genetically modified crops rely on Agrobacterium, but this new method allows using bacteria outside this genus. The New York Times and Wired cover the story. The founding of BIOS was mentioned previously. Although the Nature paper is available from the BIOS website, with their emphasis on the free sharing of ideas it's rather ironic that the technique was not reported in an open-access journal."

140 comments

  1. GM by RandoX · · Score: 1

    Imagine my disappointment when I misread the title and thought it was some kind of hack for GM cars...

    1. Re:GM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well at least you didn't read it like I did, "Open-Source Technique for Genetically Modified Cops."

    2. Re:GM by dextroz · · Score: 0

      You are not alone, try the fruits/veggies in the US - all that GM modied sh!t tastes like garbage. Everything is nice and big and colorful in otherwords pictures perfect - till you sink your teeth into one. There is no taste in most things. The intentions with the whole GM was excellent but somewhere along the line they didn't realize that while the physical aspects improve, the amount of flavor in the fruits remained the same irrespective of what size the fruit is. Try to make a banana milkshake in Europe/Brazil and you need twice the amount of banana's in the US for the same level of taste. It never used to be like this 15 years ago in the US. And what's with all the veggies tasting so *sweet* and all!?? Try the tomatoes in EU/Asia/South America and you'll know what I mean.

      --
      Where's my free iPod!? Until then, I'll settle for a kiss...
    3. Re:GM by lcsjk · · Score: 1
      Well, I thought it said that an opensource technique for General Motors crops up. (For you non-USA people that means appears.)

      It's too bad I don't have mod points today because I really liked the one about the cops.

  2. Right on by Leroy_Brown242 · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is nice to see. Information, free for all. In this casr especially, since it helps all of us.

    I wonder how many other things would benefit the 'end user' if things were opened. Auto safety for instance.

    1. Re:Right on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I wonder how many other things would benefit the 'end user' if things were opened
      How about the government. I always thought that "Open Source" would be the next step up from a democracy.
    2. Re:Right on by Leroy_Brown242 · · Score: 1

      What would you want to open up? What part of government don't you understand?

  3. Funding? by teiresias · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I understand BioForge is a place for scientists to collaborate but is it also a place for funding? Did the scientists who put together this article do so with funds from a University or (less likely) a corporation?

    If more of these papers are to come out, and I hope they do, the proper funding channels should be lined up since those who fund a research project tend to be very possessive about the results.

    --
    -Teiresias
    1. Re:Funding? by Otter · · Score: 2, Informative
      From the paper:

      This work was supported by grants from the Rockefeller Foundation, Horticulture Australia and Rural Industries R&D Corporation (RIRDC).

      Obviously, BioForge doesn't have any significant grant money.

    2. Re:Funding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      BioForge? Next thing you know they'll have open source GM animals and a web site called Freshmeat.

    3. Re:Funding? by Otter · · Score: 1
      Obviously, BioForge doesn't have any significant grant money.

      Sorry, that came off snippier than I'd intended -- it may not even be 100% true, let alone "obvious".

  4. My own Genetics Lab by donharper · · Score: 0, Troll

    After this post I'll rush down to my very own genetics lab based out of my garage, and start creating some interesting combinations. Hope it's not confused with a Meth lab.

    1. Re:My own Genetics Lab by bwcarty · · Score: 2, Funny

      I've already started. You should see my 5 assed garbanzo beans.

    2. Re:My own Genetics Lab by Keith_Beef · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Farmers have been GM'ing food for centuries.

      No, you're confusing two things.

      Selecting individual plants or animals and breeding strains in the hope of exagerrating desirable traits (resistance to disease, early ripening of fruit, etc). is one thing.

      This can only happen within a single species, so far as I know. I might be wrong about this. It happens.

      If you manage to get a hybrid of two species, the offspring are sterile, so the strain acnnot ontinue beyond a first generation fo offspring (cf. mules).

      What is meant by GM, is taking genetic information from one species and inserting it into the genome of another species. This crossing of the species barrier cannot normaly happen, and certainly has not been used by farmers "for centuries".

      Now, while it may be laudable to develop a strain of rapeseed that is resistance to a particular disease by inserting a gene from a bacterium, what happens if pollen from a field full of this rapeseed is taken up by bees and some of this is eaten by another bacterium.

      This is what the European Commission is wary of. Monsanto et.el. are pushing for short term profits by being first-to-market. Let's face it, the directors are put there to serve shareholders' interests. "Long term" investment for many of those shareholders is maybe ten years.

      The commissionars in Brussels are nominated by career politicians and technocrats, whose short term goals are mainly fiscal but whose long term goals are to return to power over again, in alternating periods of government. Now, we're looking at three to five cycles of five to seven years...

      The consumer is torn between the desire for ultra-cheap food right now, this instant, and wanting his childrens and maybe unborn grandchildren to be born with the right number of fingers, toes, eyes and ears.

      Beef>

    3. Re:My own Genetics Lab by ovit · · Score: 0

      Every new technological gift science has brought us has come along with a ton of FUD... We have 2 choices:

      1) Oppose things because of a "potential" harm.
      2) Embrace the new, and accept that with progress comes new problems, but fundamentally believe that the human mind is up to the task of solving them.

      I pick 2.

    4. Re:My own Genetics Lab by crc32 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      -- If you manage to get a hybrid of two species, the offspring are sterile, so the strain acnnot ontinue beyond a first generation fo offspring (cf. mules).

      Well, not totally... lateral gene transfer (transfer of genes from one speicies to another) has been hapening for millenia - bacteria do it, yeasts do it, and viruses allow higher organisms to do it.

      Therefore, anyone who has been making cheese, alcohol, or any fermented food has been engaging in GM for a long time.

      --
      "In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -- Carl Sagan, Cosmos
    5. Re:My own Genetics Lab by howlin_walleye · · Score: 1
      If anyone can produce celery that will mix me a bloody mary at about 3PM on a Saturday afternoon, I will change my opinion forever about GMOs.

      Until then I mix my own drinks and use organic celery.

    6. Re:My own Genetics Lab by elenaran · · Score: 0

      "Farmers have been GM'ing food for centuries." Yeah, I GMed my farming skill awhile back. Now, I'm the l33test farmer in the whole game!

    7. Re:My own Genetics Lab by kiatoa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you are ok with GM stuff then you should also be fine with the intro of non-native species. Why would one be ok and the other not ok? The same fundamental issue exists with both: the unintended consequences of introducing a species alien to this environment are unknown and predictions of "it'll be fine" are often wrong. Go talk to the Australians about introduced species and see if they agree that the human mind is up to the task, last I heard the problems were NOT solved. And yes, if it is genetically modified surely it is a new species!?

      --
      90% of the wealth is in 2% of the pockets. Bummer to be in the majority.
    8. Re:My own Genetics Lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you manage to get a hybrid of two species, the offspring are sterile, so the strain acnnot ontinue beyond a first generation fo offspring (cf. mules).

      I don't know how it is with plants, but there are alot of species of animals (mostly non-mammals) out there which can interbreed and produce fertile offspring.

      For example: Cornsnake (Pantherophis guttata) X California Kingsnake (Lampropeltis getula) will produce fertile offspring, referred to as Jungle Corns, which can be bred back to either parent species, to more of their own kind, or to most other Lampropeltis or Pantherophis species.

      And there are atleast two recorded incidents of mules having offspring.

    9. Re:My own Genetics Lab by Shannon+Love · · Score: 4, Informative
      "This crossing of the species barrier cannot normaly happen, and certainly has not been used by farmers "for centuries"."

      This is incorrect. Genes hop across species lines all the time. Microorganisms routinely swap, inject and steal genes on an on going basis even across such divisions as eukaryotes vs prokaryotes. Viruses move genes between multicellular species routinely.

      It has always amused me that people fear GM when for the last 100 years the standard breeding method for food crops has been to force mutate them with radiation and mutagenic chemicals. Such practices mutate thousands of unknown mutated genes for every beneficial gene they produce. Nobody ever checked if if 1/10 or 1 percent of the general population was allergic to a protein in a mutated food plant.

      At least with GM, we know what we changed and where and when we changed it. With forced mutation and natural gene swapping we have no idea.

    10. Re:My own Genetics Lab by C3c6e6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is a whole world of difference between introducing an organism that is genetically modified (=same species + new feature) and a completely new species into an environment.

      Of course, it all depends on what this new feature is, but in my opinion, 99% of the modifications we wish to make to a specific crop are beneficial only to us and not to the crop itself (read: its survival in the wild).

      For instance, consider a tomato plant that has been modified to grow tomatoes that are twice as big and that can be preserved twice as long as regular tomatoes. While this is obviously beneficial to the farmer and the consumer, it will seriously hinder the survival of this tomato variety in the willd: regular tomato plants will spend less energy on producing fruit and will be able to release their seeds much sooner (because the fruit spoils faster) than the fancy GM variety.

    11. Re:My own Genetics Lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >What is meant by GM, is taking genetic information from one species and inserting it into the genome of another species. This crossing of the species barrier cannot normaly happen, and certainly has not been used by farmers "for centuries".

      Agrobacterium is used in plant research to introduce new genes into plants. Agrobacterium was not created by man but has been inserting DNA into plants "for centuries". Cross species DNA transfer is continually happening, in all species. DNA transfer can be performed by viruses and bacteria and ...? For example, when retroviruses hop into a host chromosome, cut out incorrectly and bring a bit of host DNA with them and then infect another host they can introduce DNA between different species. In fact 0.5% of all your DNA is viral DNA that has been inherited through your ancestors. This viral DNA was unable to correctly excise and so has remained in the genome.

      The major signficance of these new bacteria is that research into plant genetics has been hampered due to restrictive and expensive patents on using Agrobacterium as a research tool. The important discovery is that other species of bacteria can be made to insert DNA into plants and so researchers can get around the Agrobacterium patent.

      Insertion of DNA doesn't just have to do with making GM plants for food production and profit. Any research at all into plant physiology, genetics etc will need genetic tools to manipulate the host. You will need to knock genes out (knock out by introducing a broken one) to determine their function. You can insert new genes to see how changes will affect the plant and learn the function of the gene. This is fundamental research, not just making GM plants for more money.

      Plants can be used for protein production and may have implications in green chemistry (use an enzyme instead of solvents to get the reactions you want). We often use bacteria to make these enzymes but bacteria often can't make eukaryotic (i.e. human, plant, animal, fungal) proteins because eukaryotes have some pretty complicated post translational modification that bacteria don't have. You can use plants for making these proteins instead, it's easier to kill plants to extrate the protein than animals (socially, plants don't have puppy dog eyes), you can grow huge volumes and you benifit from a eukaryotic system. This kind of research requires a system of introducing the gene into the plant and now there is an open source, cheap alternative.

    12. Re:My own Genetics Lab by greenhide · · Score: 1

      How about:

      3) Move cautiously in a new technology, and always for the right reasons.

      From what I've learned so far in my life, preventing a problem is generally cheaper than solving it once it's happened.

      We already have indicators that GM is problematic: some species of insect have died eating GM crops; there has been cross-pollination with other crops, sometimes with unexpected results; GM crops have in some cases shown to be of lower quality than normal crops.

      With the prolific use of Roundup, there are now Roundup resistant weeds. What will the next step be?

      Keep in mind, right now there is no agency regulating or overseeing GM crops. None. Roundup-Ready soybeans are classified, not as a food, but as a pesticide.

      Until there is a regulatory agency that can adequately monitor the effects of GM crops and their safety, and until there is labelling of GM crops (which a vast majority of the public supports), I think opposing GM is a good idea in general because it's largely controlled by large corporations.

      I believe that free markets work for certain things, but for others they are less than ideal. For example, most of the public schools that are/were run by private companies really suck -- they're using old textbooks and lousy teachers, all to keep up their bottom line.

      There are some things in life that shouldn't be profitable enterprises. Monitoring food safety is one. I think that we shouldn't be putting our faith in Monsanto that they're looking out for our food safety.

      I think the idea of open-source GM is very appealing. As long as agrobusiness controls GM science, I will be in the opposition group, because I don't believe that these corporations are looking out for our safety interests. Unless they're basically a fiscally irresponsible company, then they're spending the absolute minimum required (legally and proactively to avoid lawsuits) in order to ensure that people won't get really sick from, say, eating a burger made out of GM soy.

      As long as agribusiness controls seed, it controls farmers and, ultimately, the food supply. If seed is non-GM or open source GM, then the farmers control the seed and the supply. But if GM remains closed, and there are enough mergers so that there are only two giants left, then for at least a year or two, they could completely control our food supply (until, hopefully, another company was able to rise up to compete against them).

      So, although I'm nervous about the potential health and ecological risks of GM food, I'm terrified about Monstanto or an equivalent taking control of the food supply. Imagine if we had a Microsoft of food. That would suck.

      That's why, although I'm nervous about GMOs in general, this article is a good sign.

      --
      Karma: Chevy Kavalierma.
    13. Re:My own Genetics Lab by dr2chase · · Score: 3, Informative
      If you manage to get a hybrid of two species, the offspring are sterile, so the strain acnnot ontinue beyond a first generation fo offspring (cf. mules).

      Not so true for plants. Often the diploid offspring are infertile, but conversion to tetraploid form can restore fertility. (This is true for lilium species, at least. For mammals(at least), getting converted to tetraploid form is a bad idea.)

      In addition, plant tissue culture makes the issue of fertility somewhat less of an issue, again depending on the plant. Much of the tree-borne fruit that you see in any store (apples, oranges, peaches, I think bananas), was propagated asexually (grafted onto root stock).

      The scale of "conventional" techniques for improving species (e.g., plant 10 acres of pink lilies, keep the 100 best stems, crossbreed, repeat for 10 generations) is sufficiently large that I would not bet too much money that accidental gene transfer/modification (by viruses/bacteria/background radiation) isn't occurring anyway. I don't think anyone ever did any formal safety tests on the first navel orange; they saw that it was seedless and tasty enough, and propagated it all over the place.

    14. Re:My own Genetics Lab by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      "No, you're confusing two things."

      Nope, you have it confused.

      "The consumer is torn between the desire for ultra-cheap food right now, this instant, and wanting his childrens and maybe unborn grandchildren to be born with the right number of fingers, toes, eyes and ears."

      This shows it. While there may be consumers like this out there, they're idiots. It's based upon the nonsense that the food you eat will do those things to you.

  5. FYI by Otter · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Their license allows anyone to use and improve the technique as long as improvements are shared with everyone, à la open source.

    More precisely, "à la the GPL". I know everyone here has "GM plants", Monsanto, terminator seeds and the RIAA muddled together into a single ball of confusion but it's not like public domain vectors haven't been available for, what, 20 years?

    At any rate, it's a nice piece of work. The submitter can sneer at them for their choice of journal, but I'd take the Nature paper if I were them.

    1. Re:FYI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      "à la the GPL"

      'la' already means 'the'.

    2. Re:FYI by realitybath1 · · Score: 0

      it's not like public domain vectors haven't been available for, what, 20 years Uh, i'd say millions of years, as they predate mankind. So how long until Monsanto sues Bioos for an infected kernel?

    3. Re:FYI by Otter · · Score: 1
      Uh, i'd say millions of years, as they predate mankind. So how long until Monsanto sues Bioos for an infected kernel?

      Yes, I realize this is the level of comprehension with which most people here are happy. But I figure there are people out there who are interested in a broader picture of biological research than what they get from the legal and political issues that get all the attention here, and that's whom I was addressing.

    4. Re:FYI by mrogers · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It's more like using a GPLed compiler to write proprietary software - improvements to the tool itself must be released under the same license, but things built with the tool can be released under more restrictive licenses.
      Dr. Jefferson said that while users of the gene-splicing technology would be required to put any improvements they made into the common pool, companies and universities would be allowed to patent any products they made using the technology, like a genetically modified crop.
      I guess BIOS is at the stage GNU was at 20 years ago: first create the assembler, then the compiler, then the basic utilities, then the applications... hopefully someone will use your compiler (and your text editor) to write a kernel. :-) But I wonder how far GNU would have got if AT&T or Sun had had an army of aggressive lawyers brandishing software patents?
    5. Re:FYI by Otter · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I guess BIOS is at the stage GNU was at 20 years ago: first create the assembler, then the compiler, then the basic utilities, then the applications

      Well, that's my point -- the novelty here (besides the method itself, which is impressive and new) is the use of open-source terminology, not the free (by Stallman-approved usage of "free") availability of a molecular biology tool. The emphasis on IP issues here has given most of the readers a wildly skewed impression that public domain methods, tools and data are the exception in research, not the norm.

  6. Bad license by Pan+T.+Hose · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Their license allows anyone to use and improve the technique as long as improvements are shared with everyone, à la open source.

    This is foolish. They should have released it under a free license for anyone except those who deny the same right to use their bio-patents. Otherwise certain scums are able to use this technique while not being forced to change their behaviour, hurting the industry, hurting the farmers, hurting the scientific progress, with no consequences. A perfect license should be useful for cross-licensing with proprietary patents portfolios but sadly this one while being certainly great in spirit is just too weak in its current form to achieve this goal. In the real world of patent sharks we need to fight a little bit harder.

    --
    Sincerely,
    Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
    "Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
    1. Re:Bad license by William_Lee · · Score: 1

      "This is foolish. They should have released it under a free license for anyone except those who deny the same right to use their bio-patents."

      IMO, this is the wrong attitude towards this license. Do you honestly expect a commercial enterprise to turn over its entire internally funded portfolio of bio-patents to their competitors in order to use any technology that has been developed under an open source license like BIOS? It is naieve to believe that such a license would be widely adopted.

      This would be like forcing IBM to turn over ALL of its IP to whoever would like to use it in order to be allowed to support LINUX.

      If you want open source biology initiatives to have any chance of success, the license in its current state is likely to give it the best odds.

      What you propose here is untenable in any type of commercial environment.

    2. Re:Bad license by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I have a better idea, let's just get Monsanto crops infested with crops made with this technique and then sue them. :P

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Bad license by mikesmind · · Score: 4, Insightful
      GM crops are a bad idea, in that we don't know what the long-term effects of these modifications will be in the wild. There is no way to guarantee that unintended contamination of pure strains will not occur.

      Look at the case of Percy Schmeiser, a Canadian farmer whose canola crop was contaminated with Monsanto's Round-Up Ready Canola.

      This is a wide-spread problem that is pitting the small farmer against corporate giants. Look at this article from The Des Moines Register.

      --
      www.mikesmind.com - www.daddyworkathome.com - www.freetofarm.org - www.tenfoottable.com
    4. Re:Bad license by samael · · Score: 1

      In other news, companies should not be allowed to use GPL code unless all of their code is GPL'd.

    5. Re:Bad license by greenhide · · Score: 1

      Hmmm... I don't know what you're smoking, but your comments don't seem to have anything to do with what the parent was saying.

      Basically, parent was saying that the license should be like the GPL -- you can't use the information and then make it into something proprietary. Otherwise, Monsanto could take the knowledge offered for free and then make a killing selling the GMOs to farmers.

      There's no question that Monsanto has a right to protect its own bio-patents. But maybe then Monsanto shouldn't be allowed to use the Open-Source GM information?

      Let's say someone develops an open-source variety of corn that features larger, juicier kernels. Monstanto turns around and puts this new gene in its Roundup Ready corn. Because their GM information is closed, there's no real way to know with 100% certainty that they used the open source info in their proprietary crop. And they certainly won't be making their bio-patent for the crop available to ensure that it wasn't stolen from the other crop.

      Now, granted, there are probably DNA fingerprints that could be used to say within a percentage of certainty that the gene used in the Open Source crop and spliced into the Roundup crop were one and the same, but it's not clear to me that this would be absolute proof.

      In reality, to avoid this, it's actually in Monsanto's interest to avoid open source patents in its crops entirely. Otherwise, they'll leave themselves open for infringement suits on crops that are even similar to GMO crops but that they developed in house. If I were the CEO of Monsanto, I would congratulate this group and announce publicly that in order to keep my patents secure and unquestionable, Monstanto would not use or review any open source GMO patents.

      I see open source GM being very useful for governments and NGOs in developing countries who, with large up-front funding, could begin developing crops for use by their citizens.

      --
      Karma: Chevy Kavalierma.
  7. Not very ironic at all... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's no contradiction at all. There is a lot of GPL code produced in universities where the underlying theory is published (and republished) in journals such as ACM communications. There are many, many other reasons to select a journal to publish in, than its particular stance on Free-dom. Foremost are (in arbitrary order): fit of your article, prestige of the journal, and political ramifications (knowing someone on the editorial board always helps even when it shouldn't).

    That is, the technique can remain free whereas one particular explanation and analysis thereof (the article) is copyrighted and published traditionally. This is confusing only to the utterly daft.

  8. Open Source + BIOS? by schnogg · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't know about every one else, but I've been using Open Source and BIOS technologies together for years now.

    --
    i just put in /. and nothing happens - ??
  9. still can't do it by WormholeFiend · · Score: 1

    Still can't do it in my kitche^H^H home lab.

    It's still easier to soak seeds in a mutagenic formula, plant them and look for interesting traits later, then clone and reproduce.

    1. Re:still can't do it by kiatoa · · Score: 1

      Is that possible!? A quick google search only turned up mutagenic stuff in roasted seeds and such like. Seems like a great science fair experiment material. Any examples of an easily available mutagenic formula?

      --
      90% of the wealth is in 2% of the pockets. Bummer to be in the majority.
    2. Re:still can't do it by WormholeFiend · · Score: 1

      I read somewhere that sodium azide is/has been used on roses. I also heard about surflan and colchicine.

      Some of that stuff will kill most of your seeds too.

      As with all carcinogens, always use lab safety, protective & handling measures.

    3. Re:still can't do it by UNOStudent · · Score: 1
      Still can't do it in my kitche^H^H home lab.

      Not necessarily - As an undergrad I've done multiple gene cloning experiments as part of a lab - and more advanced cloning while interning in a research lab. The actual process of cutting and splicing genes has largely been refined by biotech supply companies so that it comes in a kit with easy to follow directions and pre-mixed solutions. All you _really_ need would be an incubator, some medium to grow your cells, a kit that is relatively (couple hundred bucks) cheap, and a few cells - all of which are produced by a multitude of suppliers.

    4. Re:still can't do it by Otter · · Score: 1
      I think ENU is the most commonly used plant chemical mutagen, at least in basic research. Also EMS, MNG, MNU...

      As you say, that sort of stuff is extremely nasty -- transposon-based mutagenesis is much safer (albeit more complicated and equipment-intensive).

  10. Great for the third world, if only... by physicsphairy · · Score: 2, Insightful
    If only the European nations would get a clue.

    GM crops have tremendous potential in regions such as Africa, where also, unfortunately, the governments are too afraid to use GM strains because they risk their agricultural exports with the hysterically-anti-GM nations (because of the fear of cross-polination).

    These developing countries can't even compete fairly with unmodified crops because of the unfair subsidies Western governments give their own farmers. Imagine that--taxing your highly advanced industrial complex and then using the money to artificially lower the prices of your products in one of the only markets that people of impoverished nations can compete in!

    How long is the developing world going to suffer because technological nations remain sentimental over their own agriculture?

    1. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without getting into the possibility that some opposition to GM is not baseless, consider that the real problem here is ought-to-be-illegal-subsidies.

      Do you really think that Europe liberalizing its GM policy will provide anything more than two or three-years boost (at most) to these impoverished nations?

    2. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by ynohoo · · Score: 1

      And what is wrong with "fear of cross-polination"? Especially these damned "terminator" crops?
      You think using GM crops is going to make those unfair subsidies go away?
      We already produce more food than we can consume, we don't need GM crops. Governments, (at the behest of big business) are attempting to convince us that we do, but very few consumers are comvinced. If the consumer is given the choice between GM food and non-GM food, which do they buy?

    3. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by Gorath99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If only the European nations would get a clue.

      GM crops have tremendous potential in regions such as Africa, where also, unfortunately, the governments are too afraid to use GM strains because they risk their agricultural exports with the hysterically-anti-GM nations (because of the fear of cross-polination).

      These developing countries can't even compete fairly with unmodified crops because of the unfair subsidies Western governments give their own farmers. Imagine that--taxing your highly advanced industrial complex and then using the money to artificially lower the prices of your products in one of the only markets that people of impoverished nations can compete in!

      How long is the developing world going to suffer because technological nations remain sentimental over their own agriculture?

      Right now a lot of slashdotters hope their government will do something similar for IT workers to stop outsourcing. Other industries already have such measures to protect them. IIRC the American steel industries are a fine example.

      That's just the way the world works. If you have something, you protect it, ethics be damned. Is it fair? Probably not. However, if you don't do it then people will lose jobs and that's not good for the elections.

      Who's to blame? The politicians who are really just listening to their voters or the people who fear for their jobs? Things aren't always right or wrong.
    4. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by Ironsides · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How long is the developing world going to suffer because technological nations remain sentimental over their own agriculture?

      eing able to support all (or most) of your own population on in country grown food allows for a much higher level of national security and self sufficiency. If all your food is grown outside of the country, that become a threat to national security no matter what country you are.

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    5. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by Erwos · · Score: 1

      While I whole-heartedly agree that Europe needs to get over their fear of GM crops, I'd argue that farm subsidies do make some sense, and that "sentimality" has very little to do with them.

      Two reaons:
      1. Stability. You do not want to depend on food coming in from places that are infamous for civil disorder. To a certain extent, this also influences food prices as well.
      2. Security. The last thing in the world you want is to have _someone else_ control your country's food supply, at least if you can help it. A naval blockade can't prevent you from eating food grown on your own shores (assuming, of course, you have the gas to distribute it with, I guess).

      "because of the unfair subsidies"

      The real world isn't a game. There's no such thing as fair or unfair - there's winning or losing, but that's about it.

      -Erwos

      --
      Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
    6. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by AndroidCat · · Score: 3, Interesting
      GM crops have tremendous potential in regions such as Africa

      As much as the potato in Ireland.

      Of course the Famine was a result of using an imported genetic mono-crop, but I also thinking of the change, across Europe, that the introduction of potato from the Americas after 1492 created. It allowed the production of a lot of food in a small area and was army/pillage/tax resistant. A mixed result; that extra food allowed a population increase available for colonizing abroad, but helped make areas like the Balkans such fractal hate zones. (Yep, the potato is the root of many problems. Sorry.)

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    7. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by magullo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If only *YOU* would get a clue ...

      Let me first start by pointing out that BOTH the US and the EU subsidize their agricultural sector. This is indeed highly unfair to the Third World countries, has been recognized as such a while back by the WTO and those subsidies are in the process of being phased out.

      In any event, there is a key difference: the EU subsidizes its citizen farmers, while the US subsidizes agribusiness corporations (which have taken over the "traditional American farmer families" a looooooong time ago).

      Sentimental? I don't think so.

      As for using GM crops in the Third World, first of all it's kind of the same ticket. The biggest benficiaries of that would be ... the corporations that not only make the GM seeds, but have come up with a business model so airtight that in fact it allows them to successfully sue a farmer whose land is accidentally cross-pollinated by the wind.

      Even if that wasn't the (extremely bizarre) case, I don't see why any country should be forced to accept imports of staple foodstuffs that have NOT BEEN TESTED in the long term. And even if it were forced to do it, I don't see why those foodstuffs shouldn't be labelled as such (which is a current fight going on between in the EU).

      But even if all of this didn't matter, I still don't understand why I should get a clue about what I eat from a citizen of a country whose life expectancy is lower than mine's.

    8. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by dysk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just what the third world countries need is to become dependent upon GM crops, and then, ten-years from now have Monsanto decide to enforce all its patents.

      Just like with software, third world countries are best sticking to public-domain agriculture.

    9. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by cliffski · · Score: 1

      sentimental???

      Of all the products I purchase food is the ONLY one that actually becomes part of my body, so excuse me if I'm a bit fussy over what goes in.

      Some stuff is so vital and important, that the maxim 'if it aint broke dont fix it' really makes sense.
      I just don't trust mankind to mess with the food supply at this level. Its not a risk worth taking, especially as its politics and trade tarrifs making people starve, NOT a lack of food.

      --
      DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
    10. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

      1. Stability.
      2. Security.

      3. Food raised with human waste. Cheaper isn't always better when you get Cholera.
      4. You get to pretend you are helping out farming families, when 80% of the subsidies go to big corporations (read, pollitical donors) like Monsanto and ADM.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    11. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by arkhan_jg · · Score: 1

      I'm a brit, and I was originally pro-gm crops. I thought the worry about them was another misinformed anti-science media campaign, like the MMR hysteria, and there is certainly an element of that; 'frankenfoods' etc.

      I've since changed my mind, and am now anti-GM. Seeing the actions of the GM companies with patents, and forcing people to buy seed year after year with terminator genes has made me realise that big companies are pushing GM purely for their profit, not the benefit of customers.

      I think africa would be worse off with GM crops as the increases in yield are offset by their inability to keep back a portion of their seed to replant, so they just end up in hock to the seed and herbicide companies.

      Oh, and don't forget that GM crops mean farmers can use more herbicide with less impact on their own crops, which means you get more herbicide in the water table; which isn't exactly healthy for other people and animals using that water.

      Cross-pollination is a valid fear too. Studies have shown that the herbicide-resistent genes can cross to weeds, and the GM companies willingness to sue farmers who do become cross-pollinated (plus the potential irreversible damage to organic farmers) means that I for one no longer trust the people pushing GM crops.

      Hell, numerous examples such as the irish potato famine, show that imported monocultures are at risk of unforseen disease or pestilence that you don't get with a mixed crop structure.

      --
      Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
    12. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      If only the European nations would get a clue.

      GM crops have tremendous potential in regions such as Africa...


      What complete nonsense. GM crops are not proven safe. Furthermore any and ALL food distribution problems are political in nature(war, greed, etc.). GM crops are totally unnecessary. Plain old cooperation amongst humans are all that's needed, but greed is more convenient. Genetic modification is about money and profit. It has nothing to do with feeding starving people. If you want to modify your plants, have patience, and do it the old fashioned way...grafting(no patents there...I hope).

      --
      What?
    13. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      Who's to blame?

      (sodamnredundant)
      Me. You. Our neighbors. Any other questions? Don't try to blame the politicians. We put them there. We can take them out.
      (/sodamnredundant)

      --
      What?
    14. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by MrHops · · Score: 1

      Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are patents on certain varieties of apple trees* that forbid grafting them without permission.**

      *at least; I can only speak of apple trees because I have purchased some small trees that are accompanied by warnings not to asexually propagate (graft) them

      **Well, they could be lying, I suppose...

    15. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      It's a truly sick world that we live in. You have my heartfelt apologies for my failure to stop this insanity. A little collaboration on everybody's part might help.

      --
      What?
    16. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There were enough potatoes to feed everyone in Ireland despite the Potato Famine. The only reason your example seems to work is because the English sent troops to Ireland to secure potatoes-- the result being that tens of thousands of farmers had their crops stolen from them the same year they happened to have decreased production.

      The Potato Famine was political, not biological. The genetic mono-crop was actually incidental to the famine.

    17. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by AndroidCat · · Score: 1
      Sure, there were a lot of factors that made the Famine so deadly. Irish tenants who worked the land of absentee lords were allowed to grow their own food in small plots, which were then converted mainly to potatoes because of the large increase in food output. When the blight hit, it kicked the props out from under them. The absentee landlords' land remained planted with a variety of crops, which could have fed the population except for the fscked system backed with troops.

      The mono-crop allowed the blight, and the population utterly dependant on it starved. Politics turned the disaster deadly -- it always does. Few famines are due to mere lack of food.

      For the third world, the problems are (a) mono crops open to disease or market change, (b) cash crop economies designed to bring in foreign money rather than feed locals, (c) close-sourced GM crops that increase output but make them dependant on big agro-businesses for more expensive seed or fancy chemicals, which feeds back to (a) and (b). Oh, and of course (d) politics in a bad-ass mix with the money from (b). Open source would help with (c) at least...

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    18. Re:Great for the third world, if only... by Raven_Stark · · Score: 1
      In any event, there is a key difference: the EU subsidizes its citizen farmers, while the US subsidizes agribusiness corporations (which have taken over the "traditional American farmer families" a looooooong time ago).

      I realize you aren't here so you may have no way of knowing this, but all our (USA) food doesn't come from big agribusiness corporations. Many people don't like the cardboard taste of corporate food or want their food organically grown. There are many small time farmers, like me, who produce a few of tons of food a year for roadside sales, organic grocery stores, barter or farmer's markets. I don't think it is possible to get rich doing this, but it is possible to make a living and be satisfied with life if you don't mind mostly being paid in lifestyle benefits. Also, I'm totally un-subsidized.

      In many parts of the country, it is common to grow one's food in the backyard.

      As for GM food, I think the cross-pollination issue is overblown . Farmers have long had to contend with cross-pollination issues such as feed corn (maize) crossing with sweet corn and making the sweet corn starchy. Furthermore, many (most?) vegetables don't readily cross pollenate across distances of more than a few meters. Even with the two bee hives here, I haven't seen a cross yet.

      However, when a cross does happen, being able to be sued for allowing your corn to cross with a patented crop is, of course, insane. This is a flaw of government, not GM tech.

      --
      http://www.marxist.com/
  11. Possible dangers? by null+etc. · · Score: 1
    I don't know too much about this topic, but isn't it theoretically possible for someone to develop a strain of GM crop that has detrimental qualities (such as significantly decreased lifespan or yield), and then release that crop into the wild?

    I remember that a farmer was successfully sued for having GM crops on his farm which were patented by a corporation. It turns out he didn't purposefully plant that strain of crop; wind currents allowed the GM strain to migrate to his farm, where it then began establishing a foothold amongst the farmer's normal crops.

    Norman Borlaug inroduced a hybrid wheat strain to India in 1963. It doubled the wheat's yield per acre, leading to a net increase 20 million tons per year from 12 million tons. So obviously, crop strains have a great impact upon the population.

    1. Re:Possible dangers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We call this type of crop a "weed" and already kill it.

      It's also important to remember that it will only spread if it reproduces more effectively than it's competition.

      And if you're worried about someone creating a roundup ready weed (or its equivilent), these already exist to some extent due to some cross pollination events.

    2. Re:Possible dangers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some terrorist might release GM crops that all taste like Brussels sprouts, dooming us all! (You pure carnavores might feel safe, but would you eat Brussels sprout-fed beef? And the cow-farts would be deadly!)

    3. Re:Possible dangers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      seems more dangerous then that to me. what if instead of a good trait you engineered say , grain, to produce human insolin. Or perhaps something more
      toxic like ricin. You could affectivly renter all seed that was not supplied by a large corporation with the ability to screen thier seed piosoness and but all small farmer who raise crops from seed ( third world included ) out of business.

    4. Re:Possible dangers? by null+etc. · · Score: 1
      We call this type of crop a "weed" and already kill it.

      I don't think we already kill it. The farmer I mentioned went bankrupt because he had no way of identifying, or removing, the GM strain of crop from his field.

      It's also important to remember that it will only spread if it reproduces more effectively than it's competition.

      Not true. It will spread in any of the following conditions:

      • it reproduces as effectively as it's competition.
      • it is able to withstand environments factors which cannot be withstood by its competition.
      • it is able to survive within environments which are not populated by its competition.
      • it is able to propogate more effectively to new locations not populated by its competition.
      Natural selection is a complex thing.
    5. Re:Possible dangers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it reproduces as effectively as it's competition.

      Because of HR-Equilibrium it won't be wiped out but it also shouldn't spread if it conveys no advantage. Your next 3 parts also relate to the effectiveness of reproduction. If it is able to withstand/survive/propogate, then all of that really comes back to reproduction.

      We call this type of crop a "weed" and already kill it.

      I don't think we already kill it. The farmer I mentioned went bankrupt because he had no way of identifying, or removing, the GM strain of crop from his field.


      It seemed that you were referring to someone making a crop which would wipe out other crops by spreading effectively.

      Natural selection is a simple thing. It all really comes down to reproduction.

    6. Re:Possible dangers? by null+etc. · · Score: 1
      Because of HR-Equilibrium it won't be wiped out but it also shouldn't spread if it conveys no advantage. Your next 3 parts also relate to the effectiveness of reproduction. If it is able to withstand/survive/propogate, then all of that really comes back to reproduction.

      ...

      Natural selection is a simple thing. It all really comes down to reproduction.

      You're simplifying natural selection by reducing the entire phenomenon down to its fulcrum point, reproduction. The many causes and effects, and permutations, of natural selection make it a complex phenomenon.

      It seemed that you were referring to someone making a crop which would wipe out other crops by spreading effectively.

      Let me give you an example.

      A farmer plants his field with a seed mixture of half normal wheat, half GM wheat. To make the example realistic, assume that the wheat is intermixed such that it's impossible to tell which sections of wheat are normal or GM.

      Compared to normal wheat, the GM wheat grows twice as quickly but reproduces at half the yield. Over the course of a year, the average yield of GM wheat would be equal to normal wheat.

      By the time harvesting comes around, much of the GM wheat would be past the age of ripening, therefore lowering the farmer's overall yield.

      Now let's assume that the GM wheat resists cold weather very well. During a harsh cold spell, half the normal wheat dies while the GM wheat remains unaffected. The GM wheat then spreads into the empty space formally occupied by normal wheat that died.

      When the cold spell is over, GM wheat would outnumber normal wheat, increasing the chance that the farmer's overall yield would further decline due to the GM wheat being past the age of ripening. Furthermore, the farmer has no real way of killing the GM wheat to allow normal wheat to return.

      Now, let's assume the GM wheat has another detrimental side effect - it tastes bad. The farmer is left with mostly bad tasting wheat, a majority of which has been harvested past ripening, and very little valuable crop left.

    7. Re:Possible dangers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It turns out he didn't purposefully plant that strain of crop; wind currents allowed the GM strain to migrate to his farm, where it then began establishing a foothold amongst the farmer's normal crops.

      Well, maybe so. But grain is usually raised on farms with immense fields dedicated to a single crop, and where planting herbicide resistant seed can save you tons of money.

  12. Terrorism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Seems like a way to introduce a harmful gm product as a weapon to destroy a nations food supply. By providing this information so readily it may make the job much easier. Especially as improvements to the techniques are made.

    1. Re:Terrorism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the people that make it already want to expand their testing labs, everyones a winner right ?

    2. Re:Terrorism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jeses Christ! You had to ruin a perfectly good thread by throwing that damn word around. Can't we have at least ONE damn discussion without having to hear that stupid word??? Hey mods! Get it together! If anybody uses that word again, mod the bastard down to hell!! Stupid assholes get a bloody nose, and they'll blame it on you-know-what!

  13. oh boy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Tomacco will finally become reality

    1. Re:oh boy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  14. Whoops! by JossiRossi · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sorry guys. My modified corn crop not only causes cancer in 90% of all people it also kinda crossbred with the native corn in most of the southwest... so... uh... Sorry Guys.

    --
    Just a boy doing unproffesional IT work that's way above his head.
  15. Neat, solution for Monsanto by clambake · · Score: 3, Funny

    When monsanto crops breed with your GPL crops, they have to release the genetic code or they are in violation of the liscense?

  16. Round up ready cocaine. by dnaboy · · Score: 1
    I wonder whether they're going to open source round up ready cocaine

    After all Cocaine wants to be free too.

    1. Re:Round up ready cocaine. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they'll release GM drug lords that are round up ready?

    2. Re:Round up ready cocaine. by Morosoph · · Score: 1
      Interesting article, trouble is that the conclusion is that the stain is the result of selective breeeding, not genetic engineering.

      I particularly like the final sentence:

      "In this war, it's hard to beat technology developed 10,000 years ago."
  17. This is the last thing we need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    GMO are a bad idea - you are polluting the gene pool in a one way direction - no way to get the original gene pool back once you've ruined it with GMOs.

    Its even worse that people are doing open source versions.

    As you can guess I'm not a US citizen. I'm from the UK, where generally, the population hates GMOs.

    1. Re:This is the last thing we need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sorry but GMO has been going on for over 10,000 years.

      the tea you drink is most CERTIANLY GMO tea. The India farmers were some of the pioneers of GMO techniques in cross breeding and propagating deseriable strains.

      the general UK population is obviousally very uneducated as to what GMO foods are.

      i suggest you actually learn what most farmers have known for centuries.

    2. Re:This is the last thing we need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      obviousally very uneducated

      And obviously I would prefer not to take lectures on subjects such as these, from someone who is barely even able to spell..

  18. Biodiversity by p373 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Does biodiversity mean a thing to any of you? Having one strain of GM corn dominate all of an an area's crops might be awesome when it comes to raising productivity levels and immunity to pesticides, but when an unforseen disease starts to affect the plants (which can happen a lot) they would be completely wiped out, because they are all the same. Nature does it better, lets not fuck around with it.

    Introducing GM plants to an area can be compared to introducing alien species to a place where they do not belong. There is no possible way to forsee all the negative impacts that could arise. Check out all the problems Australia has with feral animals, for instance. here

    --
    http://www.thelung.org
    1. Re:Biodiversity by ovit · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yeah, and while we're at it, medicine is hard... We might screw up and kill somebody... Lets just let nature decide whether you should die or not when you step on a rusty nail...

      Shoot, lets just all go back to living in caves...

      In fact, I propose that we should just GIVE UP trying to solve any hard problem... Nature already does it better in most cases anyway, right?

    2. Re:Biodiversity by p373 · · Score: 1

      Your arguement doesnt work. Treating yourself with medicine affects you and only you. You are not genetically engineering your children to be immune to disease, or injecting the entire population in your area with the medicine you think they need. There is the difference.

      --
      http://www.thelung.org
    3. Re:Biodiversity by asoko · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My uncle is part of a small group of people who are experimenting a "new" form of agriculture, wherein you let nature do its job. You basically make it hard on the plants, by spreading diseased ones all over the field rather than removing them. Some plants die, but some survive.

      The end result is a crop that may not produce the best yield under perfect conditions, but it is so resistant to disease and weather that it ALWAYS produces something. It's basically the opposite of these engineered, single-strain crops that are used in many places.

    4. Re:Biodiversity by greenhide · · Score: 1

      A better analagy:

      For a while, people thought antibiotics were the solution to everything.

      So, they were used all the time.

      Now, there are tons and tons of resistent bacteria.

      If the use of antibiotics had been more controlled and cautious, this might not have happened.

      Noone is saying that GM doesn't have a place in our future. Just that there are dangers associated with it, and that we need to take these dangers seriously.

      Consider Thalidomide.

      In fact, I propose that we should just GIVE UP trying to solve any hard problem... Nature already does it better in most cases anyway, right?

      Hmmm...if there isn't a new problem, we don't really need to solve it. The food supply is a poltiical and social problem, not a technological one.

      And, in many cases, nature still does do a better job than we humans. Remember, most of the "solutions" that technology creates are to resolve problems that human technology created in the first place: antidepressants and weight-loss medicine come to mind.

      --
      Karma: Chevy Kavalierma.
  19. Re:Great for the third world??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it were so great and all of these GM companies were really concerned with the people in the third world then why are they trying to generate sterile crops which can not be used for next years planting but forces you to buy seeds from the company. See the storey about the farmer
    http://www.percyschmeiser.com/

    Also, read up on Yield vs Output.

    There is enough food in the world to feed everyone it is just that the people don't have the money to buy these foods. It's a metter of distribution.

  20. Genomic Pollution by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Talk about viral marketing.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  21. Software Principles in Government by SeanDuggan · · Score: 1
    I think what he doesn't comprehend is that the government is using advanced techniques like Information Hiding. Isn't that how your organize good class system?

    Personally, I would say that most of the government is as open source as Linux. In other words, the information is there if you bother to look for it and are willing to go through the trouble of interpretting it. The only part that really isn't open is the closed-door meetings and the like. Aren't there any black-box modules in Linux where you only know something goes in and something else goes out? Anyhow, I think the issue is less whether the information is available as it is the complexity of the system. The average politician is unlikely to be able to look at the sourcecode to Linux and understand how it works. The average programmer is unlikely to be able to look at the internal workings of the government and understand how it works.

    --
    This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
  22. Dear GMO haters, screw you. by JosefWells · · Score: 1

    I wrote this the other day in response to hearing about a professor who is all bent out of shape because some corn variety may be gone forever.

    It also touches on some surrounding GMO issues, but it really sums up my position on the matter.
    ---------

    As far as GM crops go, there is no stopping scientific progress.
    Instead, we should be dealing with how we are going to deal with
    possible consequences. If that professor had instead made a research
    project out of preserving the DNA of "irreplaceable native Mexican corn
    varieties" they would no longer be irreplaceable.

    It is my understanding that there is somewhat of a question in
    the law right now about GM crops appearing in other fields, and then the
    patent owners then billing the field owner for its use... but that is a
    problem with our retarded patent system and the law. Besides, I don't
    expect the GM companies are going to kick little old ladies off their
    maize fields when they don't pay their GM licensing fee... however, it
    is not unimaginable in my mind, so if I read about that I would be
    pissed. All this does now is give the people a more robust/pest
    resistant/productive corn plant.

    Yes there definitely are unforeseen consequences that are going to bite
    us in the ass, but man will, nay, MUST conquer genetic engineering. Yes
    they should be more careful, but they are not, and it might save all our
    lives someday. The lives of countless others, the elimination of
    suffering from the failures of our "evolved over time to be just
    slightly better than the last blunder of design that caused the previous
    in our line of species to disappear into time. I know I am being
    extreme and this is all very far off, but the more people screwing with
    super science the better.

    1. Re:Dear GMO haters, screw you. by howlin_walleye · · Score: 1
      A lost corn variety is a sad thing, IMHO. Until you have enjoyed the savory pleasure of fresh sweet corn (many varieties), not the crap you find at the store, but the kind that was picked this morning and sold out of a truck on the side of the road, well bite your tongue.

      That aside, I respect your position and your opinion. Its pretty cool, you have your opinions and I have mine.

      I have the opinion that I don't want to eat GMOs, nor do I want to feed them to my family. I recognize that one of the realities of life in these United States is that it is very difficult to accomplish this.

      In my garden I choose to plant non-GMO seeds. My preference is for, amongst other things, heirloom tomatoes. I grow them, save seeds and plant them next summer. Your damned GMO pollen will soon be everywhere, though, and I have no defense against it. Without my permission somebody injects GMO into my seed-stock! Screw you! Not my choice, but your choice imposed on me!

      Isn't this like second-hand smoke? Excuse me, can you take your GMO crops to a barren lifeless planet?

    2. Re:Dear GMO haters, screw you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (DISCLAIMER: please excuse my poor English, I am not a native english speaker)
      The major issue with gm crops imho is that currently they are not modified to make them better for the consumers (eg. better nutritional value), but solely modified to gain more profit to companies like monsanto.
      Take gm soy for instance. The gm soy is round-up resistant, but has lower nutritional value, and is more prone to cause allergies. The farmer has more crops, but has to buy gmsoy, on which monsanto has the monopoly, roundup, on which monsanto also has the monopoly, and additionally, liceses to use these products. In the end, the farmer can sell more crops, but has higher costs.

      Thus: customer is worse off (gmsoy is inferior, but costs the same as normal soy) and the farmer is no better off (possibly worse because he is not allowed to replant the seeds) either, because of higher costs. The only one who got any richer is monsanto. Additionally, because of cross polination, and a greater chance of survival in the wild than normal soy, gmsoy may in time supplant and even exterminate the original soy, decreasing the quality off soy worldwide in general (and the poor vegetarians will have to swi tch to seitan or lentils :-) ).

      I too am all for progress, and if gen manip of crops can get us, and in particular the 3rd world a better food supply, I would be in favor, but currently we only seem to have bad examples of gm.

    3. Re:Dear GMO haters, screw you. by absurd23 · · Score: 1

      Why do you think that genetic engineering is a solution for any problem?

      Why do you think -- no, *believe* -- that it will save us?

      Look at the current, desperate state of modern medicine. Every medicine is almost at least as harmful as helpful. Check the failures, the side effects discovered too late, the whole rush to push out the product to make profit.

      This is the same with the GMO stuff as well. They are doing everything to please their sponsors and deliver the products. The only difference is, you can't call back a faulty gene as you would a medicine. If it's out, then it's out of control.

      I'm afraid this time "Bravely going where no one has gone before" will be "Bravely going to the point of no return"

    4. Re:Dear GMO haters, screw you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      more info here :
      (Quoted from http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm)

      Many scientists have protested that permitting increased residues to enable a company's success reflects an attitude in which corporate interests are given higher priority than public safety, but the increased levels have remained in force.

      Does eating genetically engineered soybeans pose potential health risks to people? In 2001, the Los Angeles Times published an exposé revealing that Monsanto's own research had raised many questions about the safety of their Roundup Ready soybeans. Remarkably, the FDA did not call for more testing before allowing these soybeans to flood the marketplace. Since half the soybeans grown in the United States are now Monsanto's Roundup Ready variety, and because soy is contained in such a wide array of processed foods, tens of millions of people are unknowingly eating these experimental foods daily.

      According to Monsanto's own tests, Roundup Ready soybeans contain 29 percent less of the brain nutrient choline, and 27 percent more trypsin inhibitor, the potential allergen that interferes with protein digestion, than normal soybeans. Soy products are often prescribed and consumed for their phytoestrogen content, but according to the company's tests, the genetically altered soybeans have lower levels of phenylalanine, an essential amino acid that affects levels of phytoestrogens. And levels of lectins, which are most likely the culprit in soy allergies, are nearly double in the transgenic variety.

      I find it fascinating that compared to regular soybeans, the genetically engineered beans have more of the very things that are problematic, and less of the very things that are beneficial. To my eyes, this is certainly another reason to eat organic foods whenever possible. The best way to insure that any soyfoods you eat are not genetically engineered is if they are organically grown.

    5. Re:Dear GMO haters, screw you. by JosefWells · · Score: 1

      I don't think genetic engineering is a solution for any problem. That is stupid.

      I do think it has the power to save us from various current and future problems.

      The current state of medicine has helped COUNTLESS more people than it has hurt. Yes, we will look back on it someday the way we look back at medieval barbers. Does that mean we should halt all current efforts?

      As I said in my post, you can't stop progress. We should be planning on how to deal with the ramifications, not hoping that it doesn't happen.

    6. Re:Dear GMO haters, screw you. by absurd23 · · Score: 1

      >I don't think genetic engineering is a solution for any problem. That is stupid.
      >I do think it has the power to save us from various current and future problems.

      These two sentences seem to carry opposite meanings.

      >The current state of medicine has helped COUNTLESS more people than it has hurt. Yes, we will look back on it someday the way we look back at medieval barbers. Does that mean we should halt all current efforts?

      No. Nobody is talking abouthalting current efforts. What I would like to see is scientific research in a controlled environment. Not in the wild, using us as guinea pigs.

      Controlled. This is the key word. Would you like to have nuclear reactor experiments happening in the middle of New York, without safety procedures? Of course not.

      Letting modified genes run free in the wild is essentially the same. We simply don't know how it will alter our biological environment. But whatever happens, it can not be redone. This is not how science works.

      Many scientists exposed themselves to incredible risks in order to advance science. I admire this people. But this time these "scientists" are risking us, the rest of the world. It can not be done in the name of science. Whoever does anything to potentially risk the ecosphere as we know it is not a scientists, but a criminal.

      Yes, we can't stop progress, nor should we. But progress does not mean blindly going over the edge of the cliff, then trying to figure out how to survive.

  23. Not in my backyard by howlin_walleye · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't think the analogy with open source software is quite right. After all, with OSS I have a choice - I download the software, .configure, make install and I have it. Then if it I choose I can delete it. With this stuff I can still choose whether I want to plant it or eat it, but I cannot choose whether my neighbor's GM'd tomatoes pollinate my tomatoes. I won't find out until I plant the resulting seeds next summer and WHOA! My tomatoes have deformed frog legs on them, but geez, they grow like the dickens in my cat's litter box! I'll leave them on the front porch - help yourself.

  24. I cannot believe this is on slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashdot never mentions the important stuff when it comes to health. This is not a good thing. This will just make bioengineering easier and cheaper to do. This will make any argument against bovine growth hormones moot. This might even make other countries who do not bio engineer choose to for the cost savings. I at all points in time am ashamed of the FDA and how they have sold to health of Americans to the highest bidder. Come to think of it, the governments has pretty much sold evrything in our best interest to the highest bidder.

    Goddamn republicans...

    I bet they're bioengineering them now too...

  25. can terminator seeds terminate you? by fredrated · · Score: 0

    And then when a company selling terminator seeds to a third world country goes out of business, do the people in those countries just starve to death?

    Stupidity: it's a renewable resource!

  26. RE: Nature by crc32 · · Score: 1

    PLoS Biology and the other PLoS journals are good, but even though they're open access, they're not repsected the way Nature is. In addition, Nature is a general subject journal, and has a huge readership - more akin to a magazine than a journal. Putting their article in Nature, while reserving the power to distribute it freely on their site, was probably the best way to have impact. And generating news is something that Robert Jefferson is pretty good at.

    --
    "In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -- Carl Sagan, Cosmos
  27. thank you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's amazing how many supposedly intelligent slashdotters swallow their corporate government's propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

    and in any case, adding Open Source to genetic manipulation technology does not make the latter any less evil. GM crops pose unprecedented and -- to quote my favourite war criminal -- "unknowable" risks to the environment at large. they are presented as the 'solution' to problems (famine, malnutrition) which are caused not by 'poor crop yields' or 'technological backwardness' but by fundamentally unjust world food distribution and the aggressive tactics of the megacorporations and governments which push GM in the first place.

    do we really want to live in a world where predatory, greed-driven organizations hold the very keys to life?

  28. GMO crops danger and risks are unacceptable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I believe that GMO technology is not safe and that its use should be banned. GMO technology is the direct manipulation and alteration of the genetic code found in organisms. It can involve "silencing" genes, inserting new genes from totally unrelated species into an organism, etc.

    The main reason why this technology should be banned is this: 1) if a GMO technology is found to be harmful at a later time, there must be a way to recall it from the food supply (wild and cultivated) and the environment without collateral environmental risk, 2) Consumers should have the right to avoid the technology by purchasing non-GMO crops. By its nature, GMO endangers both of these. GMO organisms are self replicating and thus can enter the environment and propogate among wild plants and contaminate fields where they are not wanted over long distances via cross pollination and seed transport by wind, birds, insects, etc. By its existance GMO crops threaten consumers rights to choose non-GMO crops and the environment. The terminator seed technology actually introduces even greater risks, since if the terminator genes and traits ended up propogating uncontrollably into the environment, it could cause an environmental disaster of catastrophic porportions. The terminator gene ris supposed to render a plants seeds sterile, yet in nature unusual and unpredictable things could happen, there is a real possibility the unexpected could happen and the terminator genes could propogate in the environment and render crops and wild plants sterile where this affect is not desired and uncontrollably.

    The benefits of GMO technologies I believe do not justify these risks. In fact, it has been shown by studies that many of these benefits are over stated, researchers have found that GMO crops will not end world hunger, and in fact while the use of GMO crops have increased reliance on pesticides the crop yields have not risen much at all according to numerious studies. Many of the farmers were sold on GMOs because they were told it would reduce pesticide usage, but it has in fact increased it since GMO encourages monoculture. Farmers would previously choose from dozens or hundreds of subspecies of a crop for one that best tolerates local conditions, even their own custom species they bread themselves through generations in their families by saving seeds from year to year, yet GMOs tend to encourage the use of one or a handful of species everywhere, which have not been breed and acclimated to local conditions, thus they tend to have less natural resistance to those local conditions and require more fertiliser and pesticides. This is wonderful for agribusiness.

    This technology is new, it has only been used for the past 10-20 years. Often people get GMO confused with cross breeding of plants, bnut traditional hybridisation and cross breeding still allowed nature to have the final say on how the genes were encoded and utilised the natural conception of organisms via cross breeding allowing nature to integrate the DNA. GMO circumvents the natural processes of conception and thus allows natural rules to be violated, for instance things protected agianst previously by nature, such as placing fish DNA directly into a soybean DNA, was not allowed by natural rules.

    We do not fully understand how these organisms work, and why genes are encoded in certian ways, nor will we ever. Nature encodes these genes in certian orders and sequances for reasons we cannot conceve. Removing a gene, while apparently it might not have any major affect apparent to the scientists, might in reality cause major changes throughout the organism, since there may be complex interdependancies throughout the entire organism we do not understand.

    1. Re:GMO crops danger and risks are unacceptable by Art_Vandelai · · Score: 1

      I agree completely, those responsible for creating these "terminator seeds" are propogating the most horrible kind of evil. The whole premise is one of ensuring that farmers are unable to harvest their own seeds, and must rely on the "producer" to continue to farm their crops. If these things get out into the wild, it will mean humanity's end, as nations will slowly lose the capability to feed themselves without a multi-national corporation's blessing. Those responsible should die a slow and horrible death. Spreading this type of technology is an equal crime to genocide in my view.

  29. Coldn't they also public... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...cloning technology under a GPL like license...

    The world badly needs more people like me... :-D

  30. Alternative licensing could be a bogus concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does it not serve to validate the mischief attempted
    by corporations with their licensing schemes?

  31. Re:this is news?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and precisly who outside the Commonwealth cares about THAT ?

  32. GMO is a Dangerous Expirement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many scientists have raised serious questions over the safety of GMOs. Particularly, there is a real risk that the GMO crops may trigger new allergies and reactions to food people have not had before and may not be acceptable to peoples bodies. GMO soybeans have been shown to reduce the nutritional value of the crop, for instance ive seen they have 30% less protien values and more trypsin inhibitor anti-nutrients than non-GMO soybeans. since the introduction of GMOs, the pesticide residue on soybeans has increased. Ive seen studies where the US food borne illness rates have risen dramtically since 1994 when GMOs were introduced in relation to previous years while in countries where they are banned like sweden they have remained fairly constant, a similar rise in those countries has not been seen. It has been shown that the techniques used to engineer crops may actually as well introduce bacteria and virus DNA into them. I do not believe that we should be messing with nature at this level and should stick with traditional cross breeding and hybridisation techniques which have been used for thousands of years and which leave nature with the final say on how plants are coded and prevent the more frankenstienian ideas like putting fish DNA into soybeans, natural processes do not allow such things. The risks to the environment and humans is simply far too great and the damage can be permanent from GMOs.

  33. Liability by brit74 · · Score: 1


    What about liability issues? When it was discovered that asbestos caused cancer, the company who manufactured it was liable. Who's liable if something goes wrong with open-source GM crops?

    www.empiresofsteel.com

  34. Re:Great for the third world--If they owned it! by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

    I don't have the link on me, but there was a recent report that the "Interim" Iraqi government made it illegal for Iraqi farmers to keep seeds. Not only are they going to be forced to only get GM crops from U.S. agribusinesses (the ones that donated to Bush, of course), but they are not even going to be allowed to replant.

    I'm expecting this to happen to Afghanistan as well. They are thinking ahead to control of food and water in the third world, rather than just money. Iraq is important for its water supply as well as its oil.

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  35. You forgot Pollen by greenhide · · Score: 1

    While this is obviously beneficial to the farmer and the consumer, it will seriously hinder the survival of this tomato variety in the willd: regular tomato plants will spend less energy on producing fruit and will be able to release their seeds much sooner (because the fruit spoils faster) than the fancy GM variety.

    The tomato plants don't have to be able to reproduce themselves in order to spread their genetic code -- all they need to do is release pollen.

    And studies have shown that cross-pollination with non-GMO crops can happen, but that often the changes placed in the DNA are dominant traits, meaning that they will be passed down via the pollen.

    This has caused a nightmare in the organic farming community, because it's now possible that GMO strains can contaminate their crops, removing their organic status. And once they're contaminated, it's not easy to decontaminate them.

    --
    Karma: Chevy Kavalierma.
    1. Re:You forgot Pollen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you grow tomato plants yourself?

      they are pretty good self-fertilizers. Actually, you actually have to help them quite a lot (with a sort of flower-vibrator (don't ask) if you want to spread their pollen effectively.

      But ok, for some other plants, this can be a problem.
      However, it's also true that most of the traits (which are not often dominant at all, at least not more than naturally) will die out in nature since they reduce the fitness of wild plants (even if they are dominant).

      For the organic farmers however, this doesn't help I agree. However, biotech firms could be required to make their plants sterile (which sadly, is also a good way for a vendor-lockin M$ can only dream of).

  36. Ironic by plopez · · Score: 1

    Isn't science supposed to be about open exhange of information?

    Aren't most of the open source licenses based on the open exchange of information that is a major component of research? The BSD license is a good example of it, you can use the code as long as you attribute it correctly. GPL is just placing safe guards so that the information cannot be 'locked up'.

    It looks like the wheel has come full circle.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  37. The Journal Nature by Bequita · · Score: 2

    I don't really think it's ironic - scientific journals are about prestige, and the impact factor of Nature is very high - over 30. I don't think any of the open access journals even have impact factors yet.

    If the purpose of the announcement is to reach as many as the biological sciences community as possible, you want to put the announcement in the journal that most of them read.

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  38. *Boo-Hoo* by OzPhIsH · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Whaaah. I'm a big jerk residing in a rich liberal nation. I always have plenty to eat and it costs next to nothing, thanks to outragous government subsidies to prop up my developed nations faltering agricultural industry, keeping poor developing nations poor in one of the only industries they might possibly compete. I really don't understand GM technology, but due to the social status quo of my liberal country, I think it should be banned. I might have grandchildren with the improper amount of toes! Meanwhile, I will continue to selfishly whine about GM foods and lobby to ban the technology while millions and millions of mal nourished, hungry people in the third world continue their daily struggle to find enough food for themselves and their children. Unlike my country, there is no abundance of food in stores at every street corner. No hundreds of restraunts to choose from at any given time. So while I'm stuffing my face until my belly is full (With only ORGANIC foods by the way), I will continue to selfishly oppose GM technology that could assist in the survival of Millions of people. Millions. I think that they just be forced to starve so GM foods can't possible "ruin" natural strains foods. Hmm, the possibility that the social backlash in my country against GM foods is propogated by our state owned media, reflecting the fact that we have no representatives in this field, therefore garnishing no benefits for our country's economy never occured to me. No, I'm not a sheep, or an elitist liberal fuck. Not at all.

    --

    "To lead the people, you must walk behind them"

    1. Re:*Boo-Hoo* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live in a third world country. There are some very powerfull leftish groups here which are trying to convince us GM technology are a weapon created by the americans to impoverish and destroy our small farmers. Some of those groups go further teaching small kids in schools GM foods are poison.

    2. Re:*Boo-Hoo* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      idiot, gm does not, and is not supposed to improve the situation for "mal nourished, hungry people in the third world".

  39. compromise license by The+Pim · · Score: 1
    This is foolish. They should have released it under a free license for anyone except those who deny the same right to use their bio-patents.

    In free software, we have a long tradition of actors who are half-in, half-out of our community. We benefit from their involvement in some projects, where they are equal participants, even as we may disapprove of their other activities. It gives them the possibility to contribute without making an all-or-nothing committment. In practice, it works out well. IBM, like Monsanto, has been traditionally evil, but they're improving thanks in large part to our community's willingness to work with them. Who knows, maybe we can bring Monsanto around as well. :-)

    --

    The evaluation of an action as 'practical' . . . depends on what it is that one wishes to practice.
  40. You lie! by Cyno · · Score: 1

    This is not the "open source" way of doing things.

    Open source just requires you release your source code. It does NOT require anyone else release their modifications.

    This is the GNU model, forcing others to release their changes.

    Pay more attention!

  41. This is gzip by The+Pim · · Score: 1
    Many years ago, compress was the standard unix compression utility, and it was based on the LZW algorithm. It was patented, and the patent holder started making threatening noises. While some would have been content to pay royalties, and others would ignore the patent, the GNU project saw the need to have an unencumbered compression utility. They wrote gzip, which is now the unix standard. Freedom wins.

    Agrobacterium is compress. It's basically the only game in town for gene transfer into plants, which (regardless of your views on GM crops) is critical to agroscience. But it's patented. These guys found an alternative, and are bringing a fundamental technique to the free world. It opens up whole new possibilities, and I bet a lot of scientists are going to choose to be part of the free world in coming years. Let's hope the effect turns out to be as revolutionary as GNU.

    --

    The evaluation of an action as 'practical' . . . depends on what it is that one wishes to practice.
  42. You're missing the point on the allergy worry. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Such practices mutate thousands of unknown mutated genes for every beneficial gene they produce. Nobody ever checked if if 1/10 or 1 percent of the general population was allergic to a protein in a mutated food plant.

    You're missing the point on the concern about allergies.

    It's not that a new allergen might be created. Nearly ANYTHING can be allergenic - either directly or in complex with something else in the body. New compounds are being "invented" by mutation all the time. Forcing some mutations into a few plants in a lab is not even a drop in the bucket.

    The concern is that there are a lot of compounds that are allergenic AND PERVASIVE in certain food plants. When someone becomes allergic to them, essentially the only effective treatment is to avoid them. (As of the last time I checked, desensitization does NOT work on the branch of the immune system that mediates food allergies.)

    But these protiens are often useful: Some of them are the biological warfare agents the crop plants use against the parisites they are resistant to. Copying them into other species of crop plants can confer the resistance. Very useful.

    But if you copy, say, a corn allergen to wheat, and sell the modified wheat AS wheat, how is someone who is allergic to it supposed to avoid it. Look at the label: It says "wheat". No corn ingredients (not even the dozen or so that don't sound like corn but are). Ought to be safe, right?

    And with engineered wheat containing this corn allergen (and probably several others) immune to a range of pests (so no expensive pesticides are needed to keep its yeilds up), it will soon displace the non-engineered corn from commercial farming. So people with corn allergies won't be able to eat wheat, either.

    Heck, how can they even FIGURE OUT that it's a CORN allergy? Scratch tests don't work. You need to do an elimination diet. Where do they start? Just meat? (What if the cattle were corn-fed? Many plant protiens appear in the meat in enough concentration to affect the taste and smell, which is no more sensitive than the immune system.)

    Repeat with transferring wheat allergens into corn. Then play three-way musical genes with potatoes. Then add more plants to the mix.

    Eventually, if you're allergic to ANY crop plant you're allergic to ALL crop plants. Then what do you eat?

    Or are you trying to breed out people who get food allergies? (I suppose that's one way to reduce the population to the handfull that could be fed without the use of pesticides, fertilizers, OR gene-engineered crops.)

    --
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    1. Re:You're missing the point on the allergy worry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, there are other ways to solve this. I also find it hard to believe that all wheat on the planet would suddenly start to have this particular protein. You could require the food industry to label their products. Also, it would make sense to me to require a protein to be well tested before it is allowed to be eaten. And if it's known that its from corn and people are allergic to it LABEL the food. I'm sure some company pops up selling 100% GM-free wheat.

    2. Re:You're missing the point on the allergy worry. by ralphclark · · Score: 1

      You can't get 100% GM-free wheat when the GM wheat is grown next door. This is what happened in the UK when GM agro testing was stupidly set up in fields very close to organic farms.

  43. You have a FEW good points...but here is more info by clonan · · Score: 1

    GM products DO have a few down sides, some of which you mentioned.

    They do tend to incourage monoculture farming. However this is nothing new. Farmers have been trying to monoculture for the last 10,ooo years. In the last 50-100 years they have gotten to the point of true monocultures. But just like any other plant they will only thrive in the enviroment they were designed for (by nature or man). If farmers see that they are not doing as well with GM crops THEY WILL STOP USING THEM.

    GM foods can be health hazards. Especially if you mix organisms that tend to trigger alergic reactions like peanuts. It could be dangerous for people with sever allergies to buy carrots (or any other food) because it has peanut products in it. While this danger is real it is also avoidable. Just like so many prepared foods already have warning labels for food alergies, GM food will probably need labels.

    But here are a few errors in you assumptions:

    GM products do not necessarily need to "escape." It is very VERY easy to make organisms unable to breed with wild strains. The easiest is to only distribute sterile seeds when they are not being planted in a controlled environment (ie an open field rather than a greenhouse). However the downside to this is that farmers are then FORCED to buy new seeds every year. Now while farmers ALREADY tend to buy most or all of their seeds every year, this forced addiction may be unacceptable.

    Probably the best way is to make the GM food unable to mate with wild strains. For insance, plant sperm needs to recognize and attach to plant ova. With out this attachment no fertilization can occcur. Fo the mdification is simple. Replace the two genes necessary for this matching with simlar genes from say a grasshopper....Now the GM plants absolutly cannnot coss with the wild strains and mating with grasshoppers won't be viable (:-))

    But your BIGGEST oversight is the assumption that nature does it best.

    It has been proven that nature is random. Genes are randomly distributed in each generation. Ever now and then a new gene or combination of genes are created that fundamentally changes the way the organism interacts with its environment...it forms a new species.

    Just like introducing bull frogs to australia, this new species will wreak havok on the environment until a new balance is found. This is NO different that what would happen if GM plants got out.

    Finally, there is a great deal of evidence that genes ARE transfered between completly unrelated species. This is done through bacteria or cross species virus's. A bacteria or virus picks up DNA from it's first host and the 2nd host incorproates it. Now fish DNA IS in soybean DNA. There is a great deal of evidence that suggests that a similar process triggered our evolution from other primates.

    While GM food could be dangerous, it is no more dangerous than any other product we create. While removing a gene can cause changes to an organism, they will have to be very minor changes for a the reserachers not to see them. So long as proper percautions are taken...testing the food produced, checking the plants with varius others in a simulated wild situation etc...GM food can be very safe and a boon to society in general.

  44. Re:Perhaps a more fitting tribute? by Dmitri_Yuriescu · · Score: 1

    This post is modded "Score:2, Insightful" !?!?!? If it doesnt change very fast, I don't like Slashdot anymore :(

    Do you blame the Global Warming on Ford? Nobody does. Did he play a key role in it? Well, noone can deny that (thought some might argue about it for long if they bothered).

    What is dangerous is greed and foolishness. Like Monsanto rushing out to use a largely uncontrolled new technology on a cornerstone of life on Earth to make money for their share holders. And the people who keep whining about the 'ignorant Europeans' and 'eco-freaks' who are just 'paranoid' and claims that such a brilliant invention should just right away replace what put Homo sapiens here in the first place. (It gets disgusting when some claim that they are merely making the money to save the starving African children though.)

    We can also argue for a long time if Microsoft and/or Monsanto are 'evil' in the real meaning of the word. But most will agree that developing Open Source software and now GPL GM crops is a very interesting idea at least.

    But thank you for reminding me there are people like you out there - if I knew the word for what you are and used it, I'd propably get modded down to -10 for rudeness.

  45. There is no food shortage by Vainglorious+Coward · · Score: 1

    GM crops have tremendous potential in regions such as Africa

    Let's not fall for the myth that there is a world food shortage. Crisis, yes; shortage, no. There's actually plenty of food to feed everyone and more, the problem is in distribution and the international markets (note for example, that even at the height of the famine in 1984, Ethiopia was still a net agricultural exporter; 'course you can't feed your population on coffee beans). You're absolutely right that Western governments have rigged the market in favour of their own agribusinesses, but why would you think that the introduction of GM would do anything but make that situation worse? GM is all about locking in control of the food chain, from the field upwards.

    It's bad enough that third world countries have to concentrate on growing cash crops for foreigners rather than food for their own people, in order to service their foreign debts. Now you expect them to be additionally burdened with the licence restrictions ("taxes" might be another word) associated with GM. How exactly does it benefit an African farmer if she now has to pay an annual licence fee in order to be allowed to plant the seed she saved from the crop she grew last year?

    (Not that I disagree that the EU's agricultural policy is anything other than scandalous. The Common Agricultural Policy is an anachronism from the post-war period that should have been fixed thirty years ago. I would hardly call it "sentimental" ).

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  46. Helping all of us... by SunPin · · Score: 1

    is nowhere nearly as efficient as helping none of us.

    --
    Laws are for people with no friends.
  47. Witch dunking by Vainglorious+Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    The farmer I mentioned went bankrupt because he had no way of identifying, or removing, the GM strain of crop from his field.

    Note that there is a very simple way for Monsanto to identify whether (in this case) there are Roundup-Ready (in this case) crops present - they simply fly over and spray the field with roundup. If the crops die, then the farmer is innocent. If the crops don't die, then the farmer gets sued. Much like the medieval method for identifying witches.

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