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Non-Technical Managers in a Technical Company?

Futurepower(R) asks: "Before he was hired, Steve Jobs of Apple told John Sculley he was a sugar-water salesman, and perhaps should have listened to his own words. Under Chairman and CEO Louis V. Gerstner, Jr, IBM did well, but was that only because the world needs a global computer service company? Was IBM technically advanced during his tenure? In your experience, can managers with little technical knowledge successfully run a technically-oriented company?" What qualities would such a manager need to keep a tech company healthy?

95 of 438 comments (clear)

  1. Essentials by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The ideal CEO:

    Has a clear vision for where the company is going.

    Surrounds his/herself with solid advisors within the company to indicate what is and is not possible

    Listens

    Rewards good ideas and performance

    Discourages sycophancy

    Is compensate for real success, not juggling the books or tricking Wall Street into sending up the stock price

    Is able to accept constructive criticism

    Knows how to properly delegate and referee

    Makes the hard decisions before they become even more painful

    I don't think there should be a requirement that the CEO knows thouroughly the product line of the company, a broad understanding is is essential, but knowing how to successfully run a business is key. I get pretty irked when a manager says something like, "Well, why can't we just build a database in Access? It's easy to do, I do it all the time!", when the product is actually going to be rather large and require something more robust. It's a pretty good indication there's an oversimplificator on the loose and trouble is around the bend.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Essentials by Floody · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Amen to that.

      My worst employers have been those who were not only technically incompetent but incapable of realizing their limitations.

      The best? Those with enough technical skills, background or knowledge to realize that (a) things are not always as they appear and (b) doing things the Right Way has long-term benefits that overshadow the "quick fix." Translation: you don't have to know how to do everything or how everything works as long as you know that your knowledge is limited and someone else more technically minded probably should be listened to.

    2. Re:Essentials by borawjm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not trying to stand up for "Lunix". I applaud Bill Gates's business strategy. In fact, the "everything must be open source" freeks often annoy me.

      It just seems to me that he does whatever the heck he wants, regardless of what other people, or even the government, say. I mean, he has the money to, so why not.

    3. Re:Essentials by lampajoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What goes along with that though is being really good at spotting liars. a non-technical CEO can have smoke blown up his/her ass really easy by techies trying to get their way. If you're going to be delegating and taking ideas from more knowledgeable people you have to have a good bullshit meter.

      from that movie The Aquatic Life: "I don't know what you just said but I know it's bullshit."

    4. Re:Essentials by nitelord · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How about those guys who know a little about programming and think any task is "easy". Then think of a hundred "important" projects they want you to work on, tell you which is most important then every hour come up with a new "most important" task for you to do. Isn't it great when a boss who is supposed to help direct you and set you up for getting things done actually has the opposite effect.

    5. Re:Essentials by Baron+of+Greymatter · · Score: 5, Informative

      The real-world CEO:

      * Has no vision at all. He takes his marching orders from the Board of Directors, who represent the stockholders.

      * Surrounds himself with yes-men who tell him what he wants to hear.

      * Listens? To what? He's the CEO and makes all the important decisions.

      * Rewards himself when someone comes up with a good idea. His employees' performance is supposed to make him look good.

      * Mandates sycophancy.

      * Juggles the books if necessary to increase the stock proce. His job, by law, is to maximize shareholder value. Period.

      * Is above criticism. He's the boss, after all. He wouldn't have achieved his position by being a complete f**k-up, would he? :-D

      * Loves the squabbles between his managers. Makes him look that much better. He'll just fire one of them (probably the technical guy).

      * Has his golden parachute ready when the s#!t hits the fan. The layoffs and the collapse of the company are his successor's problem. Meanwhile, he leaves with a $20,000,000 severance package.

      --
      Microsoft's VP of Customer Service is Helen Waite. If you are having problems with their products go to Helen Waite.
    6. Re:Essentials by nolife · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Surrounds himself with yes-men who tell him what he wants to hear.

      * Listens? To what? He's the CEO and makes all the important decisions.


      Not specific to a CEO but the lower levels as well.

      Long and drawn out story follows

      At my last company we had two field reps. They wer the first contact when someone wanted a new workstation or something moved.

      Field Rep #1. Recieves order, does a walkthough and checks if cat5 and power in the area, checks if PC in stock, looks at IP addresses and config and provided the technicians with all the details including ip address, workstation name, chassis and port number etc.. Has the PC shipped to the location and tells the customer when we will be there for install. If cables or power needed run would tells the requesting department head that it would take about 3 weeks for everything to be done.

      Field Rep #2. Immediately tells requesting department head we will have it up and running in 2 days. Slaps some paper work together and we show up. Well, there is no cat5, all ports on the switch are taken up, no computer, blah blah blah.

      With field rep #1, the department heads do not like him, he always tells them 2-3 weeks and makes them pay for what they are requesting (out of switch space? Pay up $20k for a new blade). Things were done right and fully documented. We never had configuration issies and when we flew in to do a job, it was done in one day.

      With field rep #2, department heads liked this guy because his turn around was "2 days". Of course we had to fly in and out several times because nothing was right the first time, customer did not even order what they thought they needed and we show up with something else etc.. He would procure a switch blade if needed from another job to put here because he forgot to check if one was needed etc..

      Bottom line, the total time in both was about 2-3 weeks, one done right and the other done wrong.
      During layoff time? Field rep #1 was let go by the regional manager because he was not focused on "the customer".

      In my descriptions, the customer, department heads and managers are all from the same company, just different departments.

      --
      Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
    7. Re:Essentials by soft_guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't mind "Why can't we..." at all. What you have to do is listen to what they are saying and try to understand why they are saying it. Most of the time the business goal seems valid (at least with my current managers) and the technical solution they are describing is a little bit oversimplified. If its a bad business goal, sometimes you can argue with them on that level and never get into technical details. However, I try to argue by asking questions because if something they are saying makes no sense to me, its because I don't understand their idea. And my goal is to understand their idea - not to make them angry. Once you understand their idea fully, you can usually suggest changes or maybe it turns out to be a good idea afterall.

      What I do is say, "Absolutely we can do that. There are a few technical details of what you said that would need to change, but we can absolutely do something along the lines of what you are saying to meet the business goals you have in mind."

      Then, I explain to them using everyday language the high level differences between what they are suggesting and what I think will actually work. I explain the basic reason why I'm suggesting these changes to their idea. One important thing is that I keep talking about it as "implementing your idea" and "meeting the business goal you called out".

      The rub usually comes when the schedule and budget are discussed. However, if someone is saying "Why can't you just build the database in Access instead of Oracle for our server product?" or something really silly like that, it is usually not hard to explain why (because there really is in fact a valid reason). The important thing is to couch your reasoning in terms of business goals and financial costs to the company (e.g. increased support calls because Access can not handle the load generated by being used as a back end for a server of this kind.) and not try to put the person down. Putting people down or treating them in a condescending way because of lack of technical knowledge will not generally help you get your way. It also doesn't help you win any friends. Instead, treat them with respect and understand that they probably have some expertise in other areas that are important to the business - expertise you probably don't have. Take the time to patiently explain why and chalk up the extra time and effort this takes to the overhead you take on of working with other people.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    8. Re:Essentials by mmeister · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think a CEO needs to know the product line if he/she is to have a clear vision for where the company is going. I worked for a financial software company that replaced its CEO with a "number cruncher" with zero knowledge of the products being sold. In fact, several years later, I don't think he knows the products very well. He has visions, but it's just of increased stock price. Of course, the more focus that was put on the stock price, the less likely it was to actually increase (over the past 2-3 years, the price has been flat -- with some rises and dips along the way). While the company has not nose-dived, it has lost its leadership and appears to be floundering. Of course, he doesn't follow half the items listed, so that could point to some of the problems as well. I think all the bullet points listed are important, but you have to know what benefit your company is providing (and that means that if you're selling a technical product, you have to have SOME understanding of it), else how can you have a vision of where the company is going? I don't think a CEO has to be a techie -- but he should have a good understanding of the products his company sells. I think Steve Jobs is a good example of this.

    9. Re:Essentials by LaCosaNostradamus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Too true. The guy who delivers a desired metric (speed of service) while fucking up out-of-metric items (quality of service) is operating in the current business paradigm and is going to win the hearts and minds of the executive class. We have to teach the managers and execs that quality of delivery is important. And the best way to do that is point out how much money that shabby preparations are really costing them.

      --
      [You have a stable society when some nut guns down a schoolyard and the law doesn't change.]
    10. Re:Essentials by WGR · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The best managers know what the clients really want and how to explain that to the engineers to create it. A manager who is too technically involved ofent makes decisions by what is easiest to do rather than what is best to do. A manager who is not techically competent enoguh makes decisions sole on what ccan be marketed and not what can be economically built.

      So the ideal manager has enough competence to avoid bullshit, but is alos aware of her limitations to avoid micro-managing everything. She also should be capable of translating the needs of clients into goals and specifications that create a product that fufills needs, not egos.

    11. Re:Essentials by twiddlingbits · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bullshit, Rep #2 was probably making more money on each job by billing all the trips to do the fixes to the customer. Rep #1 did it right the first time but at a fixed price. Rep #1 has higher customer sat but lower overall revenue. Rep #2 has lousy customer sat but high revenues. Regional Manager figures out he gets bonus based on revenue not customer sat and fires Rep #1. Two years later with Sales in the crapper due to poor customer sat making customers go elsewhere rather than back to this vendor Regional Manager is fired and Rep #1 is hired back to fix the problems.

    12. Re:Essentials by Stinking+Pig · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's a lesson here, and it's this: "being right is not the same thing as being successful."

      Most successful customer-facing people have learned to combine these approaches; act like #2 in front of the customer, but be careful to use some qualifying terms. "No problem, we should have this done in two days". Keep the rest of the sentence "if pigs start flying" under your hat, they don't really need to know. If they're smart enough to pry, then tell them the truth, but 99% just want to hear you say what they want to hear. They're not going to be listening to you anyway and will be perfectly happy with "blah blah two days blah blah". Do not discuss pricing. Do not discuss pricing. If you feel you must answer a pricing question, give them an insane range and when they complain, tell them you don't know anything about pricing and to ask the person who ought to be handling pricing. There's nothing for you to gain from mentioning what you think it will cost before you know what it will really cost.

      When you're back to the shop or working with internal process, then you're #1 all the way -- do the process, do it right. You're not going to get anything but enemies by making your coworker's jobs harder.

      --
      "Nothing was broken, and it's been fixed." -- Jon Carroll
    13. Re:Essentials by soft_guy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, I'm a System Architect which means I'm the guy who is kind of the "voice" of our software engineering group. I also have some input and stakeholding in every product that we do. I promote interoperability between our individual products and also drive special projects to create reusable components that go into multiple products.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    14. Re:Essentials by jadavis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      doing things the Right Way has long-term benefits that overshadow the "quick fix."

      That's an oversimplification. Sometimes the right way is the quick fix and not the Right Way. If having something fast is more important than having something correct, the right way is the quick fix.

      Sometimes a product can be developed perfectly, and totally miss its opportunity to be useful. This is a crucial aspect of communication between management and labor.

      If it needs to be done next tuesday and won't be worth a penny on wednesday, you'll do lots of things that aren't "The Right Way". You'll use MS Access, Visual Basic, bailing wire, and duct tape if you have to. And if you've got a good boss you'll know the situation and understand how "Right" you should do it, because he'll tell you.

      MacGuyver (sp?) has built many useful things escaping from drug dealers, and none of them would pass the scrutiny of a good QA dept.

      --
      Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
    15. Re:Essentials by Duhavid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most of the CEO's that I have observed have become so adept at the art of spin that they are no longer capable of realizing when they are being spun.

      I agree with you wholeheartedly.

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    16. Re:Essentials by nolife · · Score: 2, Informative

      I see your point but on that note...
      FR2 did no field representation at all and placed the burden on the technical guys as our manning requirements were based off of specific duties. You could remove FR2 completely from the loop and just let the technical guys do the whole thing themselves and everyone would have been better served (including the technical group). Nothing is more frustrating then FR2 ordering 2 USR 33.6 modems for a build out when he was actually supposed to order 2 CSU/DSUs. That is a huge price difference. Instead of requoting the original department for the right equipment he would move things around from somewhere, would rob Peter to pay Paul, or fluff or pad the next request to make up for it. It is a moot point now but he used to determine what IP addresses to use by pinging a few, if no response, he figured it must not be in use. How about when one department ordered 15 USB scanners I'm sorry, but I do not find those methods of doing your job should be rewarded.

      --
      Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
    17. Re:Essentials by alpha_foobar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Technically Bill Gates has a Technical background...

      Sure its not in Linux... but it is in a programming language... if you want to call BASIC that.

      Also he isn't a CEO anymore... so this is really offtopic. But it seems like he did a pretty good job of directing Microsoft while he was CEO.

    18. Re:Essentials by Fnkmaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The reason this is such an issue is that in many other businesses, it's impossible to blow as much smoke up somebody's ass as it is in the tech sector. It's hard for somebody who hasn't seen it in a hands-on way to recognize that just because software vendor X says their product has feature Y doesn't mean a damned thing because everybody lies in the industry. Especially when the word "enterprise" appears in front of "software" - that generally means "the features we are describing to you don't exist, we just think our tech guys might be able to build them if you pay us enough money".

      In most businesses your supply chain consists of widgets that are far more quantifiable in terms of their properties, costs, and functionality. If you come from that kind of background, you are likely to get suckered several hundred times over. If you've been in the tech industry for some time, and especially if you've worked in an engineering role before, you know enough to know that you need to delegate technical analysis to smart people whose entire job is that, and who you trust aren't just trying to protect their own jobs or play office politics.

      But with that said, I don't know that real engineering experience is necessarily so advantageous beyond that. When you are the CEO of a diversified company, you aren't going to have the time to do deep technical assessments of all of your products, competitors, and suppliers, you'll need to delegate those responsibilities no matter what.

      This is not to suggest that people don't lie in other businesses, and that a bullshit detector isn't key there too, it's just that no business I've seen has so much free-flowing bullshit as the world of software because of the complexity of the product and competitive featurization-based sales.

    19. Re:Essentials by bitingduck · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Customers can tell when product is crap. Why sell it to them fast

      Because it's raining and they want to stay dry.

      People in New York City generally don't carry umbrellas, and when it starts to rain there are suddenly cheap umbrellas for sale cheap everywhere. They're good for maybe one rainstorm (a gust of wind will shred them), but they'll generally function as an umbrella for sufficient time for most users.

      Sure, you could sell really nice, high quality umbrellas at a price commensurate with the quality, but why would anyone buy them? Next time it rains they're unlikely to have it handy, and need to buy another one anyway. The expensive, high quality umbrella may be an engineering marvel, but it's useless if it's not in your hand when it's raining. People want cheap crappy umbrellas to keep them dry while the rain is coming down, and the makers and sellers recognize that.

      Quality, cost, and schedule are all engineering parameters, and they're weighted differently in different situations. Ignore that at your peril.

  2. Well by Neil+Blender · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In my experience, even managers with tech experience can't always run the show. There's certainly more to it then domain expertise, common sense being one of the most important.

    1. Re:Well by Frymaster · · Score: 2, Interesting
      In my experience, even managers with tech experience can't always run the show. There's certainly more to it then domain expertise, common sense being one of the most important.

      right. so, you're saying that a manager has to have the appropriate skillset for the project he's managing. pretty obvious.

      i think the whole question is moot and original post pointless. managers need to have a unique skillset for the project or operation they're managing. sometimes this means technical proficiency is required, sometimes it doesn't.

  3. What a moronic question. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Managing a company isn't a matter of engineering.

    1. Re:What a moronic question. by EvilArchitect · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tell that to industrial engineers. Allegedly, managing a company is exactly like engineering...depending on if it's a company that produces nothing but red rubber balls or if it's a company that produces complex software products.

      This certainly isn't a moronic question. Having experienced that my "managers" often have difficuly managing a schedule because it's far more slippery than (their project management software+their dubious skills with that software+their dubious skills with aspects of management in general), I can certainly understand where the question comes from.

      --
      I'm just a caveman programmer. I don't understand your strange, "modern" ways of thinking.
  4. In case you haven't noticed by menace690 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Steve Jobs is doing a pretty good job at keeping Apple above and beyond the norm of the computer industry.

    --
    A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned to walk forward. -- FDR
    1. Re:In case you haven't noticed by Life2Short · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It isn't confusing if you know the history behind it, but I would hardly call Apple history "common knowledge." Jobs tried to hire Sculley away from Pepsi to come work for Apple. The story goes that he swayed Sculley by saying something to the effect of, "Do you just want to sell sugar-water for the rest of your life, or do you want to come to Apple and change the world?" With hindsight, it's clear that Jobs was right. Sculley just knew how to sell sugar water. He ran Apple right into the ground presumably because he didn't know anything about technology. Of course that raises the question, "Then why did Jobs want to hire him in the first place?" It's also helpful to know that Sculley probably played an important role in getting Jobs thrown out of Apple. In the end not only did Jobs get Apple back, he also got them to buy his company (NeXT) in the process. This definitely puts Jobs in the category of "Smarter than your average bear" IMHO.

    2. Re:In case you haven't noticed by Otter · · Score: 4, Interesting
      The story is this:

      Steve Jobs was stepping down from the head job at Apple, and was recruiting Sculley from Pepsi to replace him. The crux of his pitch was "Do you want to sell sugar water for the rest of your life or do you want to change the world?"

      This quintessentially Jobs-ian story is well-known to any Apple zealot but, yeah, it could have done with a bit more of an explanation. Especially since the submitter's take on it isn't one I've ever heard anyone else adopt.

  5. Atleast these two.. by cOdEgUru · · Score: 4, Funny

    Probably know the field he is getting in to as well as an efficient crap_detector.

    An ex-colleague of mine had the gall to ask his PM in a team meeting for an extra couple of days to write a SELECT query just because the query was returning not just a handful of records, but millions!

    The PM, to the apparent delight of all, agreed with out a second thought.

    1. Re:Atleast these two.. by MyTwoCentsWorth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, well... taking advantage of a Project Manager with limited technical background who commits the sin of trusting its subject matter experts is really hard...
      Keep in mind that you only need to be caught once with this kind of joke to lose all respect in the organization.
      If the PM claimed to have technical skills, it's one thing, but if, as I assume, he never did, this is wrong and harmful to the company and your friend.
      Have fun posting.

  6. What is being managed? by QMO · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the manager is managing technology, he should understand it.

    If, however, the manager is managing technologists, he has more need of understanding the people than the technology.

    Whatever he manages, the manager needs to recognize his own limitations, and seek advice for things outside his expertise.

    --
    Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
    1. Re:What is being managed? by chris_mahan · · Score: 2, Funny

      Since management is able to speak out of both sides of their mouths, it works out :)

      --

      "Piter, too, is dead."

  7. It depends on the salesman. by Willie_the_Wimp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think a non-technical CEO can be incredibly powerfull in building a customer orientated focus.

    I know at my company, Cisco Systems, our CEO is a self proclaimed salesman. He 100% is customer focused. The key is he has top notch technical & marketing leaders on his team that guide the overall technical direction.

    I believe it is this combination that has enabled our company to be one of the top technical companies in the world. Some of you will hack on Cisco for security problems, IOS bugs, whatever (what large company doesn't have any bugs?), but I don't think anyone can truly say that Cisco is not completely committed to customer satisfaction. In the end, isn't that what matters most for any company?

    my $0.02

    Todd

    1. Re:It depends on the salesman. by PhilipMatarese · · Score: 5, Funny

      Your slashdot ID is "Willie", your email is "Fred Garvin", and you signed the post "Todd".

      Who are you? Really?

    2. Re:It depends on the salesman. by Willie_the_Wimp · · Score: 3, Funny

      George.

    3. Re:It depends on the salesman. by Ruie · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ok, now sign out and post your real opinion as "Anonymous Coward" below.

    4. Re:It depends on the salesman. by Mastoid · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I'll say with complete confidence that Cisco has never been the slightest bit committed to customer satisfaction in 100% of the times I've had experiences with them. Some examples:
      • We, the subcontractors, got a new router from a customer to hook up a branch office. Said router had no documentation included with it. I find out later that this is standard for Cisco products. The ISP couldn't get it working and we couldn't get it working, 'cause we had no experience with Cisco stuff at all.

        Fine, I'd heard good things about Cisco service. I call up the tech support number and am informed that I have to open a case online. Wisely, I point out that I can't do so, as the location I'm at has no connection. The tech insists that I must create the case before anyone will talk to me, then politely disconnects the call.

        I call up our office and walk the bewildered receptionist through creating an ID for Cisco's labrynthine site, then opening a case. Bear in mind this is all new to me, so I'm essentially visualizing the site in my head and telling her what to enter as she reads it to me. We open the case, describe the problem, and wait.

        A half hour goes by and the office gets a phone call from a Cisco tech wanting the config file. He refused to call the location where I was, so I drove 45 minutes back to the office (rural area) with a floppy.

        Hours go by with no followup. Eventually I hear from the customer that the ISP called back with a minor tweak to the config that fixed it. Note that TOS with the ISP didn't cover customer equipment, while the router had the full installation support from Cisco included.

      • We recently bought a PIX 501 so a vendor could VPN in. (Again, no documentation included. However, you can order it at...) Their engineer recommended upgrading IOS. To do so, you must register an account at Cisco's site.

        Fair enough. I'm employed somewhere else now, so I create a new account and go looking for the upgrade, only to discover that my new account has access forbidden everywhere I go, including the section to open new cases.

        But wait! There's a separate form to report trouble using the site! I explain the whole thing, detail which parts of the site show forbidden access, when I registered, what my account is, etc etc etc.

        Four hours later I get a canned response telling me that they can't help me unless I open a case, and here's the URL....Never did get that IOS upgrade.

      And so on. I have more experiences with Cisco, and in none of them have I found the slightest shred of interest in me as a customer, either in policy, support, or follow-through.
      --
      I had an argument...with the person here at the university that teaches OS design. I wonder when I'll learn --Linus
    5. Re:It depends on the salesman. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2, Interesting


      My experience with Cisco is that, whatever it may have been in the past, it is now a company on the way down.

      What often happens is that the non-technical manager inherits a technically strong company, and the inertia carries him along until the company falls apart. That's apparently what happened to Apple under John Sculley, for example.

      Certainly one could get the feeling that Cisco is falling apart. I was subscribed to a newsletter for some Cisco equipment, and Cisco would regularly send me poorly written email messages of more than 150,000 bytes.

      Contacting Cisco technical assistance was a frustrating exercise in corporate politics. Cisco representatives would regularly talk to me using acronyms known only inside Cisco.

      John Chambers, Cisco CEO, is certainly an example of a non-technical manager doing a poor job. He is presiding over his company while it seems to be rapidly on the way down.

      If the past is any guide, when Cisco gets someone else, the business press, which apparently has no technically capable writers, will give some half-baked reason for the failure, and they will again run praising articles about another imperial CEO.

  8. enterprise vs company by briancnorton · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A modern CEO of a computer company does not need to know how to operate a computer, they need to know how to operate a business. It doesn't matter if you are selling computer chips or potato chips, all businesses are run *about* the same way. The skills that a non-tech CEO would need are an open mind willing to listen to input from all levels, and the ability to surround themselves with good people that know the tech part.

    --

    People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.

  9. I don't think so by alnjmshntr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Simply because when it gets down to the crunch, you have to know if your engineers are bullshitting you or not. There will always be those that say something can't be done when it can be.

    --
    If I had created the world I wouldn't have messed about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers
  10. A manager is a manager is a manager... by bc90021 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...and if you can truly manage, it doesn't matter what the "subject" is really. If you have a grasp of the basics (and even most non-technical people have a grasp of some computer basics), and you know how to manage people, then you will do well. You have to be able to hire smart people, make sure they know what they're doing (and if they don't, it becomes evident even if you don't know the advanced stuff, when things don't get done), and run interference from upper management, and inspire the people below you.

    If you can do that effectively, for the most part, you can manage.

    1. Re:A manager is a manager is a manager... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You have to be able to hire smart people, make sure they know what they're doing (and if they don't, it becomes evident even if you don't know the advanced stuff, when things don't get done)

      There are so many other reasons things might not get done. Here are a few:

      • The deadlines you set are impossible.
      • You don't set and stick to clear priorities - "do THIS, right NOW! Forget THAT!" and then "do THAT! forget THIS!".
      • You've inappropriately constrained the solution. "It must be enterprise-quality, 100% availability, and using state-of-the-art Microsoft Access!".
      • You're asking for insane hours and burning out your best employees.
      • You've pissed them off by not showing respect consistent with people's effort and quality of contributions.
      • You're taking up too much of their time with motivational meetings and whatnot.
      • You're getting way too hands-on with technology you don't understand and never will.
    2. Re:A manager is a manager is a manager... by tom's+a-cold · · Score: 5, Insightful
      ...and if you can truly manage, it doesn't matter what the "subject" is really. If you have a grasp of the basics (and even most non-technical people have a grasp of some computer basics), and you know how to manage people, then you will do well.
      This is the kind of thing that business schools tell their MBA students, and it's not true. I have seen people with good generic management skills fail dismally because of their inability to comprehend what they were managing. Without understanding what the job entails, a manager cannot establish appropriate metrics to measure progress, or know who's bullshitting. These are the key inputs to effective management decision making.

      If you are managing a technical effort, you have to have technical understanding at a level far better than "basic." Otherwise you're reduced to beancounting and trying to find an authoritative source within the organization who will tell you what's going on without dragging their own agenda into it. Managers are usually not good at knowing who to listen to unless they have some means of reality-checking.

      Senior executives (C-level and maybe their direct reports) are a different story, since they're not as close to the workface. But the idea that there's a generic skill that managers have that is independent of underlying subject matter is pernicious and contrary to real-life experience.

      Having said that, technical skills on their own are not sufficient to make you an effective manager. Leadership is a whole different thing. So is strategy.

      --
      Get your teeth into a small slice: the cake of liberty
  11. You mean executive, not manager by winkydink · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There's a big difference.

    The ideal executive has excellent leadership qualities. He/she can paint a picture of the where you are going and make the idea of going there sound very exciting. You cannot underestimate this. Salesmanship plays a big role as well. A CEO is forever "selling" his company, be it to customers, investors or employees.

    I don't think technical aptitude has much to do with it. In 1995, Cisco CEO John Chambers did not even have a PC on his desk, let alone use one. They seemed to do OK.

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

  12. Managing is more about people then tech, IMO. by KhaZ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Personally, I've been bitten by managers that are *too* technical.

    People who want to dive too deep into the tech, when they're job is more about facilitating and steering from good thoughts of others.

    My best managers have been those who have been out of the coding game long enough to know a good idea, but not necessarily how to implement them.

    My worst have been people who graduated with a masters in Comp Sci, and thought they knew better then the developers: turning them into nothing more then factory workers, pushing buttons in a direction that always ended up being less then adequate.

    --
    - - - -

    KickingDragon

  13. Yes and No? by T-Bear · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Running a succesful company requires a number of things. Background and a strong understanding in the industry is only one of them, and not always the most important one.

    If the manager is good at delegation, good at recgonizing and promoting the strenghts of his/her employees that helps.

    At the end of the day the manager should be dependent on the skills and knowledge of their product anyway (even if they have a strong competant knowledge) so wether they have to pick up the background as they go or they already have it, it's almost inconsuiqential.

    --
    Brian
  14. The most valuable thing a manager ought to know.. by cmowire · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...is when they are out of their knowlege base.

    Remember, sometimes asking questions from ignorance, asking "well, why DO things need to be that way?" is the route to a good idea.

    And sometimes, you are just asking programmers why they keep putting bugs in their code and telling them that they need to put more features in, instead.

    A good non-technical manager for a technical company needs to be more of the first and less of the second.

  15. A good manager by PHAEDRU5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    - Loyal to the troops, and demands loyalty back
    - Loyal to the managers above, and demands loyalty back
    - Moderates the sh*t rolling downhill
    - Let's the troops know the important stuff
    - Understands the goals and keeps the team congruent
    - Provides a beer fridge when the going gets rough
    - Does not sit still for pettiness and backbiting
    - Mentors
    - ....

    Oh, be still my beating heart. What cloud-cuckoo-land is this I imagine?

    --
    668: Neighbour of the Beast
  16. And let's not forget.... by GillBates0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Darryl McBride, who with his 19 years of executive management and leadership experience, singlehandedly led the formerly faltering SCO to develop a state of the art product like Linux.

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
  17. Why Not? by Jeff+Hornby · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One of my best managers had no technical background. He was just very sensitive to the needs of everybody who worked for him.

    Because of this, his team was very efficient and very loyal.

    If you're a manager, you should probably be delegating most of the technical anyway.

    --
    Why doesn't Slashdot ever get slashdotted?
  18. Manager Vs. Marketing by clinko · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Depends on the size of the company.

    A smaller company will have the main manager selling the product at the same time. He needs to know the product.

    A larger company will separate daily operations from selling the product. The manager makes sure that the team is heading the right direction, he tells the tech team where to go, not how to do it.

    A Manager will work for a large company, but as long as he's not marketing the product.

  19. Absolutely. by Telastyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As long as these people managers listen to their technical manager counterparts, they can be very successful.

    Realistically though, Big Business promotes people due to age, wardrobe, ass-kissing, lineage, sexual favors or sheer lottery before they'd do it due to actual skill. So the chances of getting both a good people manager and good technical manager together are slim. It's more likely to find a good technical manager who doesn't completely suck at people management, and let them run the show.

  20. Best quality in a manager? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Best quality these days?

    Ability to speak Hindi or Mandarin.

  21. The CEO myth by CarrionBird · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Bah!

    Look at HP, a great example of "CEO skills" at work. What happened to pormoting from within or at least within your own industry.

    And people wonder why the tech economy is so bad...
    --
    Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
  22. What does a manager do? by vdthemyk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A manager is responsible for coordinating people and processes. While it would help for the manager to have some knowledge of the work the people he/she manages does on a day to day basis, it is more important that the manager understands the needs of the team. A good manager should be able to identify individuals who consistantly out perform their peers. They could be someone who cooks french fries to just the right crispness, or a programmer who always comes through in a crunch.

    So, in my opinion it isn't as important that they understand the technology, but that they understand the business and people involved.

    --
    VD
  23. The last thing you want in that role... by myowntrueself · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the *last* thing you want is a geek who will insist that all production systems should run the latest, most bleeding edge stuff.

    Geeks are easily distracted by shiny things.

    Better to have someone at the helm who is less shiny-thing-obsessed.

    --
    In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    1. Re:The last thing you want in that role... by vdthemyk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've know more managers that are distracted by shiny things than geeks. But most of the time, those shiny things are coins in their pockets rather than the good of the business...

      --
      VD
    2. Re:The last thing you want in that role... by ComputerSlicer23 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Curious, most of the geeks I know want to use the oldest most reliable and supported version of the software they can find in production.

      Heck, we run several things well past their Vender EOL because it was incredibly stable and upgrading had serious transition costs. We practice the transitions over, and over again testing each change. To ensure that everything will go smoothly. Lack of support for the stable system be damned.

      Sure on my desktop, I've got some shiney new stuff. On my servers. Not a chance, old reliable every last time.

      Kirby

    3. Re:The last thing you want in that role... by Big_Al_B · · Score: 2, Informative

      Geeks are easily distracted by shiny things.

      Maybe new-school geeks, but old-school geeks value durability, supportability and sustainability over shiny new toys.

      I think this is analogous to the differences between "new money" (rich) and "old money" (wealthy).

  24. Chairman Lou did it right by aiabx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    He was the man who made the decision to take IBM down the Linux path, even though he was not primarily a technical guy. The secret is to find competent subordinates and listen to what they say.
    -aiabx

    --
    Just this guy, you know?
  25. Yes it can be done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work for a small software company started by a guy who has worked in high places for a number of companies and for the govenment. He also has an MBA. He saw a need for a certain product so hired a couple programmers and worked at it for a few years. The product was a huge success and the company is doing very well now. It has grown and been around for almost 10 years now. He wasn't very technical but is a great salesman, strongly believes in his products, knows them inside and out and has learned the lingo from us programmers. Over the years he has learned a lot about computers. He knows the industry the product is targeted for inside and out, and has many contacts. That probably helped a lot.

  26. The great successes of... by dpbsmith · · Score: 3, Informative

    Digital Equipment Corporation under Robert Palmer, Wang Laboratories under Richard Miller, Polaroid under William J. McCune, and of course Hewlett-Packard under Carly Fiona demonstrate clearly that it takes a business person to run a business.

    Addle-headed technical people without marketing expertise are apt to introduce boneheaded products like the PDP-1, the Wang Word Processor, the Model 110 Pathfinder Camera, the HP-35 calculator, etc. etc. when none of these products were backed by solid evidence from focus groups showing that consumers had any need of them.

    They also have a disturbing tendency to be perfectionists, and build products that are better, more reliable, and more durable than they actually need to be, adding cost and decreasing margins.

  27. Re:Right by Bastian · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I had a non-technical manager that can either be the best or the worst boss in the world.

    He's the best boss in the world when he recognizes that he lacks knowledge of important details needed to make a lot of decisions, and doesn't make decisions without consulting his employees and considering our advice first.

    But he is terrible when a decision comes up that involves something that he thinks he knows, so he starts ignoring the advice of people who know much better. It's pretty much the usual, "No, let's use FileMaker Pro because it says right here on the box that version 7.0 not supports true relational joins, can handle millions of records in a table, and works as an ODBC data source." type thing.

  28. If only my manager had technical sense... by xtrvd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I work in a mid sized retail store, I have a manager who is a technical, but unfortunately he has not been keeping up with his technical skills. He took some courses on how to install Netware 3.11 way back in the day, and he preaches today that Netware 3.11 is the most stable and best suited fileserver for our POS system.

    He believes that our "Communication Server" which simply syncronizes inventories of the retail stores, are adequate running windows 98 and using PCAnywhere 8.1 scripted to transfer some database files from store to store to get them all up to date.

    He also believes that our POS system (Which is written in Fox4) is an excellent database tool, because it only needs to be completely re-indexed daily and has so many compatability issues with today's hardware that it can't be the POS system which was made and developed in the late 80's, but rather the hardware today "isn't made like how it used to be."

    What I am getting at, is that it doesn't matter if your manager is technical, it's if he understands *today's* technology. I just listen to this guy and laugh to myself while they reboot their 'communications server' daily because 'there must be a virus on it or something'. Heaven forbid it could be the crummy memory management of Windows9x.

    Without someone technically inclined informing a manager of what is right and what is not, we'll always be stuck with outdated people in technical jobs. If there is somebody with technical experience who can report to the managers, it gives the store managers something else to worry about instead of learning the newest and greatest database software.

    Honestly managers, don't get too technical, leave that up to us and go manage your business, you'll never get both done properly at the same time.

    1. Re:If only my manager had technical sense... by bladesjester · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm hoping that by POS system, you mean "Point of Sale" and not "Piece of Sh**", but it sounds like it might be both =]

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    2. Re:If only my manager had technical sense... by lgw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is exactly the difference between a manager who is good at technology, and a manager who is good at *managing* technology.

      Tools change all the time, so proficiency with those tools is generally a liability in a manager.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  29. Managing Geeks' Egos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'll probably get modded to hell for this, but whatever. One thing that really sucks about the IT world, sometimes, is the geeks. You know, the people who ALWAYS tell you to RTFM when you're asking newbie questions, or show fanboyish favouritism about certain areas of tech, or still in this day and age make fun of windows users.

    These are the sort of people who like to be really condescending to others (particularly those they think know less), and managers need to know how to manage them properly, because apart from the usual management problems that you'll run into, these are the sorts of people who're going to get really snooty if they feel that they could manage the office or design a system better than the manager just because they're excellent at organizing source code.

    Now, before you get all fired up over that comment, notice how +5 mods you'll see for posts that talk about how managers should respect the abilities of their subordinates? Chances are pretty good that every other person out there who agrees with those sentiments secretly suspects that they're smarter than their manager BY DEFAULT. That's a tough situation to manage. I'm sure some of this has to do with how many managers from hell lack good people skills, but more than a little of this is because people like to have their egos stroked, geeks especially.

    So, if you're going to be a manager and keep your subordinates happy, notice that you'll need to do a lot of ego-management.

  30. Catch 22 by gr8_phk · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "You have to be able to hire smart people, make sure they know what they're doing"

    The problem with that is evaluating the people you hire. How can you say a guy knows what he's doing if YOU don't know what he's doing? Not to say it's impossible, but it can be difficult. From what I've read, the most successful companies in the fortune 500 have top people who were promoted from within. They know how the company operates and what it's capable of. The CEO of XOM for example started there as a chemist - there's a lot more to running the company than that, but he knows what they do and understands how it's done and what's possible.

  31. After 25 years experience... by 3.2.3 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    In your experience, can managers with little technical knowledge successfully run a technically-oriented company?

    No.

    I worked for Lou Gestner. His talent was making money by laying off people, selling off divisions, and making loans to other transnational companies. IBM is a ghost of its former technical self as a result.

  32. Re:Don't get me started! by Spark00 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd respectfully suggest that what you describe has anything to do with technical capability.

    Organizational Design theory, one version of it anyway, says that from the CEO down there are specific jobs or tasks that need to be accomplished. the CEO needs to see out 10 years or more, the layer below him 5 years, and so on, until you get down to first line folks whose projects last til friday.

    the CEO has to see and understand, on a visionary level what the company is doing. this requires a competence and familiarity with the industry, the products, the strategy etc etc. so should he/she know the 'tech' stuff? of course. but at such a macro level that doesn't even require that they use it. but rather that the understand where/what/who/how of tech in people's lives.

    some CEOs come up from the tech side, others from the sales, others from finance or marketing. What they need to be is visionary, big thinkers.

    ever watch West Wing? Like the Prez on that show... he doesn't DO all the work, he surrounds himself with smart folks, listens to them, then applies their advice to his vision, his mandate, and then makes a decision. and then if he's a good leader, people line up behind him and get shit done.

  33. Re:My two cents by exKingZog · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've got a history degree, and the most important thing it taught us was to read documents with a high degree of cynicism - ie, to detect bias, bullshit and distortions, and try to understand what the writer wanted us to think. I've found this incredibly useful when reading reports, technical or otherwise. It also teaches you to research stuff on your own, which is something not every IT techie I've trained knows how to do. So don't knock Medieval History, it's not that useless.

    --
    "If he were a plant, people would roll him up and smoke him."
  34. My dealings with non tech savvy CIOs. by doublem · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've had a couple of bosses who were very ignorant of the technological aspects of the work the company did. They were CIO's and were hired primarily because the company owner thought that a good manager should be able to manage anything.

    One had some promise. He understood that he was, to be kind, completely devoid of any real understanding of the technology. He relied heavily on the knowledge of the staff and focused on the client facing and staff management aspects of the job. All was well, until it turned out he was a paranoid nut who started playing a variety of political games instead of doing the job, but until then, he was able to do well. He'd demonstrated that a good manger really can manage something of which they have limited understanding.

    Another manager was the flip side. He had no understanding of the technology, and was, to be kind, a hand wringing, spineless jellyfish. The thought of pushing for the cash for a major hardware upgrade was beyond his capabilities, and all of our insistence that the system was dying fell on deaf ears because "Well, it's working now, isn't it?"

    And when I say "hand wringing" I mean it literally. He would walk around wringing his hands like he was washing them, and whenever we discussed budgets or the need for new servers, he would get a terrified "Deer in the headlights" look in his eyes.

    While he accomplished literally nothing and was, through his inaction, responsible for several major system crashes, he lasted a VERY long time, because he always told the owner what he wanted to hear, and blamed the IT staff when something went wrong, something the owner was apt to accept at face value.

    --
    "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
  35. OT: Your .Sig by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 2, Funny

    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

    I haven't yet seen your sig turned into a slashdot cliche, so allow me the honor.

    1. They ignore you
    2. They laugh at you
    3. They attack you
    4. ??????
    5. Profit!!!

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  36. THERE IS NO SUCH THIN AS A 'TECHNICAL' MANAGER by blair1q · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Either you understand your product and its market, or you do not.

    Doesn't matter whether it's Fig Newtons or Apple Newtons.

    Beyond that, people skills and financial skills are fully fungible.

  37. Avie Tevanian by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's worth noting that the second time around Steve put Avie Tevanian in charge of software, the lifeblood of Apple.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  38. Machiavellian thoughts by hung_himself · · Score: 2, Insightful
    There are three kinds of intelligence: one kind understands things for itself, the other appreciates what others can understand, and the third understands neither for itself nor through others. The first kind is excellent, the second good and the third kind useless... If a Prince has the discernment to the good or bad in what another says and does, even though he has no acumen himself, he can see when his minister's actions are good or bad... in this way, the minister can not hope to deceive him and so takes care not to go wrong

    The Prince

    Not bad insight from an old guy from 500 years ago i.e. it's better to know your stuff but if not at least know enough so that your staff can't take advantage of you (which they will...). Jobs, I think falls into the first camp, Gerstner who succeeded because he was a smart cookie (sorry) and I think he probably understood more than people gave him credit for, falls into the second group and Fiorina falls into the third camp.
  39. The manager must know enough to know who knows. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 4, Insightful


    Agreed, managers must know enough to realize their limitations. Not only was the recently fired HP CEO Carly Fiorina not able to realize her limitations, for example, she did not think her limitations mattered.

    People say that the printer division is HP's last profitable division. However, it is not the printers that make money, but selling ink for $8,000 per gallon (mostly cheap solvent, bought in tank car loads).

    If that is correct, HP is not a real business, but one that depends on taking advantage of its customers to make money.

    If that is true, then Carly Fiorina was not a businesswoman at all, but merely able to give the appearance of competence. And that, in turn, means that people who write for the business press are completely incompetent, too.

    Similarly, often the business press claims that Microsoft is a successful company. But would Microsoft have been successful if it had not had a very unusual situation in which it was able to arrange a virtual monopoly by breaking the antitrust law? Someone who had a monopoly on water, for example, could make Bill Gates look like a poor man in a week.

    However, I have some disagreement with what you said. You said, "Translation: you don't have to know how to do everything or how everything works as long as you know that your knowledge is limited and someone else more technically minded probably should be listened to."

    The problem with that is the manager must have enough technical knowledge to understand very well who has more technical knowledge than he, and who can therefore be trusted. Typically, that's a lot more technical knowledge than what people mean when they say "you don't have to know how to do everything or how everything works".

    1. Re:The manager must know enough to know who knows. by drsquare · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If that is correct, HP is not a real business, but one that depends on taking advantage of its customers to make money.

      So selling a product at a profit isn't a real business? What would they have to do to count as a real business? How is selling something taking advantage of the customers? Because the prices are too high? Then who decides what are high prices?

      It sounds as if you're bitter because ink prices are too high. Personally I wouldn't know, I rarely use my printer and when I do it prints all funny.

    2. Re:The manager must know enough to know who knows. by lew3004 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your last sentence sparked a reminder in me back in my days as an engineering student (no, not software or IT). We were all handed, as usual, the customary stack of shit we had to do to complete the course as well as a list of books we would have to purchase. The book bill alone was almost $900 and by the end of the first week we were all wondering: would we have to actually KNOW all this crap? The standard questions started flowing. Will this be on the test? What will I actually do with this information? Will I ever use it? Will I pass this course? As it turns out, as usual, the correct questions were not being asked. I finally broke down to visit my Professor (also my student advisor) for some tutoring help. When asked if I had to memorize all this shi...I mean stuff, he gave me the most insightful answer I've ever heard since: "I don't expect you to memorize this information to be an Engineer, however I expect you to know where to find it." I think this is true of this post as well. A good manager is kind of like the captain of a ship. He may not have the immediate answer but he never, under any circumstances, lets the crew know that because he can find it and find it quickly. Being less reactionary and more problem-solving driven is often the more successful, if less traveled, path to thriving today. I wish more managers understood that.

      --
      I still can't get the screen shots of Castle Wolfenstein for the Apple IIe out of my head.
  40. A quote says it all. by RabidLobster · · Score: 2, Funny

    Meeting with the client. Client asks question about confirmation when the user finishes some part of the application.

    PM: "Yeah, sure, we've done this millions of times before, no problem. We'll just send a mail right to the database, right?" (Looks at me)

  41. Re:Essentials of management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There are a number of attributes that a good manager must have, but there are differences depending on the type of business the company in in.

    For example, all good managers need to know the business they are in. They need to understand the market, its products, what they do, and where his company is situated within that market. He/she must be able to recognize trends and prioritize new things. He does not have to be an expert in designing and building the product.

    Of course, companies have many different needs. Some bosses handle production, some sales, some HR, some planning. When they work among peers, bosses are coaches/captains of the team. When they work among unskilled, they have to be guides and teachers and schedulers. When they work with sales, they need to be good ranchers, keeping the cattle on track and pointed in the right direction.

    The best boss I ever had was my first, some 35 years ago. This was a peer-peer situation with a group of professionals, but what he said to me is universal and I have used it in every kind of situation since. He said "My job is to make your job easier. My job it provide you with the best tools, equipment, information, and working conditions that I can, and to help you do a better job. The better you look, the better I look. I am all for you being as successful as you can." That says it all.

  42. The worst are technical semi-competents by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ... you know the ones... they **think** they know technical stuff and maybe they did ten years ago. They hear buzzwords and throw them around. They want to be making decisions because not doing so makes them feel not in control. They are influential and the brown-nosers listen to them, so they build momentum with bad ideas that need to be reversed and replaced with good ideas.

    Unfortunately good technical savvy requires one stay up to date and keep trying things out.Examples of very stupid stuff I've heard:

    "This product must be built with C++": Umm, err, the was no C++ compiler available for the CPU in question. There was one for a similar CPU - it could be made to work but would not exploit some nifty features and would generate bloaty slow code. The current Code base which was to be reused was C, so an effort was started to C++-ify the code. A lot of time was lost trying to comply with, then refute, this "wisdom".

    "You can trade off memory against CPU for performance": Semi-true, sometimes. So the system needed about 4 MIPs of CPU and about 128kB of RAM. The CPU could only deliver about 2 MIPs. No problem says the manager, just double the RAM to 256kB. Unfortunately this "decision" was made while the true techies were on vacation. Cost a bundle of money and time to cancel the order and relay the board with a stonkier CPU.

    "SPI is better than RS232": True, for many things... except the RS232 interface was removed from the device and the SPI bus was made available to the outside world. Instead of being able to just plug in to a PC for upgrade, a special RS232 to SPI adapter box (which was damn expensive) had to be shipped too. Luckily the product flopped - it would have been a pig to support.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:The worst are technical semi-competents by eric76 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It could be worse.

      I know one company president who thinks that computers are basically just typewriters that let you save what you typed so you can make changes.

      That company has nearly shut down an entire division because it takes too many people to do the work. If they would automate what they are doing, they could cut the personnel required to do the work by at least 75%.

      They do everything nearly the most inefficient way possible.

  43. India vs. Us. by heroine · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Non technical managers in technical companies is the way it's done in Us. It's so unique to Us, there's even a term "entrepreneurial management" to describe us. To determine if it's successful, compare countries which use technical managers to countries which use non technical managers.

    India is the world's largest IT producer. China is the world's largest semiconductor producer. Japan is the world's largest consumer electronics producer. Us has the highest engineer unemployment in the world, highest trade deficits in the world, and the lowest quality of life in the world.

    1. Re:India vs. Us. by JohnnyKlunk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      sorry, i may have not have understood your post.
      and the lowest quality of life in the world.
      What do you mean by that ? I've never been to the US (i assume thats whom you mean by Us) but 'lowest quality of life in the world' ?
      compared to say... burkina faso or cambodia (sorry, no disrespect to readers from these countries meant) i'd say the quality of life is nothing short of nirvana.

  44. The Jobs-Sculley story turned on it's head by X · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I find it really amusing that this story has been so completely turned on it's head. If you take a look at Jobs' history, his technical skills are weak at best. His real tallent is on the marketing side of things.

    Scully on the hand, while he clearly has skills on the marketing side of things (and was indeed selling "sugar-water" at Pepsi when Jobs was trying to hire him), actually started of on the engineering side of things and has demonstrable skills in that area. This is the guy who as a *kid* filed a patent on some color CRT techniques just one day after Sony beat him to the punch.

    It's also worth noting that during the Sculley years, Apple's market share was impressive and grew quite well. While he made a mess of things in a lot of ways, Macintosh computers haven't achieved the market share they had under Sculley either before or since.

    --
    sigs are a waste of space
  45. Hire the incompetent by mhollis · · Score: 2

    I just said "goodbye" to a man hired in by my company (a national television network) who is going off to a subsidiary after getting his M.B.A. while on the job. His wife also had two children during his tenure.

    I feel sorry for the guy in many ways. He was prevented from giving us the resources we truly needed to make a seamless transition into new technology; he was attending classes at a hard business school and he was doing the "new daddy routine" in being awakened every three hours by not one but two infants.

    But I do have a problem with the concept of someone who has never actually made any television making judgements and purchase decisions on behalf of people who do make television for a living and whose jobs depend on continuing to crank out excellence. I do have a problem with him announcing: "There will be layoffs" in a meeting when the transition to new technology has not been started yet and there is absolutely no understanding of how many seats will have to be filled in order to make airtime on a daily basis with an absolutely inflexible deadline.

    And now he will go to work in a medical field with absolutely no training in or understanding of medicine.

    I suppose he can complain that he was ordered to cut costs by his superiors but he was too disinterested to really try to understand the business he was in and he was too yellow to push back when faced with orders that made no sense.

    Only problem is that the people who gave him the order to cut staff will now be closer to the "production floor," which puts jobs in greater jeapordy. I wonder if this is what they're teaching in Business schools these days: You don't need to know the business; You don't need to be curious; You don't need to measure past performance in order to predict the future and you don't need to respond to the real needs of the situation. Oh, and you can best build a team by threatening everyone's job in order to set everyone against each other.

    There are some managers who do pay attention who don't have any experience in actually making things work on the production level but, in my industry with large conglomerates owning media companies and trying to run them as if they were assembly lines making widgets, they seem to either not challenge the Corporate Line or get eased out.

    I have heard that M.B.A. means "Mindless Brainless A-hole and in Corporate America today with no corporate interest in being a good citizen and no investment in employees, that seems to be borne out in experience.

    --
    Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
  46. Re:Right by C10H14N2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I had a boss like this who while we were still doing product evaluations, went in and signed off on a purchase order for the product that was the most expensive and also the most suspicious, which we had made abundantly clear, because the salesman wanted to get it in at the by his December deadline before our office closed for two weeks.

    So, turns out, product is a steaming pile of shit and we end up blowing through a million bucks in various consultants, "training" (I use that term VERY loosely), subsequent product buys to patch up the broken pieces, before he realizes he needs "a fall guy," so he starts dismissing all the consultants, starting with the project manager and the system architect, because he could do both of those things, right? No, seriously, he actually said that in the meeting after they were dismissed. Finally he was down to two programmers (one being me). With nothing left to do, he proceeded to fire both of us. I'm sure he felt he'd really saved the day by getting rid of all those problem people who had the entire time been advising to do precisely the opposite of what he chose to do.

    In one meeting he had the gall to say "this project is my career advancement vehicle." Well, buddy, finish it your damned self... since you're the only one still employed on the project, godspeed and good luck.

  47. And, she led HP back in time. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2, Informative


    Okay... Maybe that's why HP's printer software is so medieval.

    If you try to uninstall the latest Windows software that HP provides for one of its printers, the uninstall deletes something like 9,000 files in your C:\WinNT folder, leaving the OS completely inoperative, of course.

  48. US Industry Says "Vaginas Need Not Apply" by geomon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    With the recent departure of Carly Forina from the top post at HP, it is interesting to note that there are no Fortune 50 CEOs that are female. The Lawrence Summers fiasco also highlights the dearth of women in technical fields. This is due to inherent differences in the sexes, according to Summers. But even if that were found to be true, it doesn't explain why L'Oreal is run by a dude.

    The fact is, business is hesitent to employ women in top fields. So whatever qualifications you place on managers the one quality that certainly does not rise to the top is a vagina.

    That implies, to me at least, that all the other criteria for a good manager discussed thus far in this topic are highly subjective. Your results would be equally effective by mounting a set of categories on a rotating circular board and throwing darts to set your standards.

    And for those who believes women cannot be tough and single-minded in their purpose, I have only two words: Margaret Thatcher.

    --
    "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
  49. That is SO not true. by ulatekh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In my experience, a person that manages programmers not only has to be a programmer, but an experienced industry programmer. How else are they to gain the insights necessary in order to manage programmers? We're not assembly-line workers. We're not even skilled-tradesmen -- the average experience-demanding Internet job ad notwithstanding. We're somewhere between engineers and inventors. We're like the non-fantasy equivalent of magicians.

    Only twice in my 12 years in the software industry have I had a manager that was an experienced industry programmer. (One was male, one was female, FYI.) And those were the best two experiences of my life. The development teams were well-organized, the goals were realistic (but still tightly scheduled), and I actually got the answers to questions I needed answered in order to do my job.

    I remember being "managed" by MBA types with "general technical backgrounds". What a nightmare.

    One judged the worth of an employee by how many hours they put in, not how much work they did. My job was to get a PlayStation 2 video game running within the frame rate limit, and there was no documentation, no source-code comments, no institutional knowledge of the source code, and no institutional concept of why anyone would ever want any of that. Nevertheless, I did, in 5 weeks, what the other programmers in the company hadn't been able to do in 6 months. He fired me because I could only put in 50 hours a week without collapsing. Now I have a wonderful 5-week-long salaried position on my work record. Boy, don't I look good to potential employers now. Thanks, Randy.

    --
    "Once we've identified and embraced our sickness, we'll have strength...and that's when we get dangerous." - John Waters
  50. Marconi by Paul+Johnson · · Score: 3, Informative
    I was at GEC when it was turned into Marconi. At the time it was being run by George Simpson. His previous job was at Lucas, the car and aircraft parts maker, so we all referred to him as George Lucas.

    Simpson was bought in as a deal maker. He took GEC, sold off the defence business to BAe, renamed the rump of the company Marconi and turned it into a telecom company. So far so good, and the share prices soared. Unfortunately neither he nor any of the team he bought over from Lucas knew anything about telecoms. You had to go about three levels down from Simpson before you found anyone who could stand up at an industry meeting and not look like a fool.

    The next big deal was for Marconi to buy a big ATM equipment manufacturer in the US named FORE Systems. They had shares inflated by the bubble. We also had shares inflated by the bubble. But we had to pay cash because our shares could not be traded in the US at that time. Oops. The deal meant that the four founders, who had most of the intellectual capital, now had FU Money as well. So they said FU. Eventually Simpson managed to promote someone else from Fore to be CTO of Marconi. But he wasn't one of the guys who got FU Money, and there was a reason for that. His idea of a technical strategy was to get the engineers to build a bigger, faster box than the last one.

    Orders dried up. The company almost went bust. I got laid off with a whole bunch of others, and Marconi is now a shadow of its previous self.

    Managers don't need to be technical wizards, but they do need to have a decent understanding of what the engineers are talking about. Middle PHBs can sometimes get by, especially if they are not directly managing techies. But if the guys in charge of strategy cannot tell which way the wind is blowing in your industry then get out while the getting is good.

    Paul.

    --
    You are lost in a twisty maze of little standards, all different.
  51. I took three days to rewrite a data load process by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Informative
    That was essentually a single select query that fired off another query for each row (which calculated line losses for the path represented by the first row, contractual losses so they were calculated by unusual methods).

    It had been touched by about 20 coders each of which where told to look for speed, one of whom wrote his masters theasis on query optimization. None of them new shit about performance tuning.

    I got an order of magnitude performance increase (10x as many rows per second total load time).

    It had six outer joins to six instances of the company table (that alone made the backend build a temp table). Where finishing all the per row number crunching on the client before even firing off the row specific query.

    I could have got a little more performance by turning the data collection into a stored procedure, but not enough to justify taking another week to work out the details (the client was Access, returning a recordset in a field of the primary recordset was not possible).

    The first guy to write this code should have taken three days to understand what an index is and how to read a query plan before starting.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  52. Uh... Gerstner had a solid technical background by shanen · · Score: 2, Informative
    How about a little factual background information before we fly into the aether. Then again, this is /.

    Gerstner has an engineering degree from Dartmouth and is a member of the National Academy of Engineering. The Harvard MBA and various honorary degrees are less relevant. Just because he's most famous as a bean counter rather than for technical work is no reason to compare him to the sugar water salesman at Apple.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  53. Its a function of experience by BayBlade · · Score: 2, Informative
    Most of the geeks I know used to obsess about the newest shiney thing, and then run out and buy it.

    Fast forward ten years and the same ones will have been burned a few times from comaptability problems between the latest and the greatest, many have had had the bleeding edge move faster than their (or their company's) chequebooks, and also either become overwhelmed by the number and associated effort of shiney things to upgrade or underwhelemed by some more sensible IT person's (with say in the matter) unwillingness to let the latest and greatest pass.

    --

    The key difference between a Programmer and a Senior Programmer is that one of them is Mexican.

  54. No one knows the extent of Microsoft aggression. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2, Interesting


    You said, "Microsoft has always been extremely aggressive against competitors..."

    That's true, and no one should think they know the extent of the aggressiveness. I came to that conclusion after trying to document some of the aggression in my article, Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going.

    What made DOS dominant in the later years? Microsoft deliberately allowed piracy. That's my conclusion and opinion after considerable study of the matter.

    Microsoft created a 2-tier market that squeezed out competitors. You could buy DOS for a lot of money. Then, you could buy DOS for very little money, if you would accept a pirated version. Products that competed honestly in the market could not sell cheaper than the widely pirated DOS, and they disappeared. (Most people cannot look at a manual and see that it has obviously been reproduced from a photocopied original rather than typesetting; most people did not know the copies were pirated.)

    One day in the years of DOS, I got irritated at this, and decided to protest. They've closed the loophole now, but back then you could call Microsoft and get the phone number of their legal department. I told the woman that answered that my closest 10 distributors were all selling pirated copies of DOS. The woman was very interested. She sounded young and neither of us realized the implications of what we were doing. Once she had accepted my complaint, the information was inside the company, and they had to go ahead with a court case. I participated as a witness against the most open of the pirates, and Microsoft won.

    If you were a dealer back then, you either felt that you were taking a huge risk selling illegal copies of DOS, or you could not compete with other resellers. So, it made sense that Microsoft and I were temporarily on the same side of an issue.

    Microsoft does the same thing with Microsoft Office, in my opinion. I sold computers only to businesses, strictly legally. But once a friend asked me for help with buying a computer, and we went to what seemed to be the best retail seller in town. We bought a nice computer, and then the salesman offered me Microsoft Office for $50. So, there was Corel, trying to sell Word Perfect for a reasonable price, and they were being undercut by Microsoft's 2-tier market.

    Nothing has changed, apparently. I got perhaps 100 spam email messages today, and a large number of them offer Windows XP Professional and Microsoft Office for under a hundred dollars. It's not a big secret. (Anyone who is not getting enough Microsoft software piracy offers, just post your email address somewhere on the internet.)

    It's not hard to know who is pirating, because each message contains information about how to find the seller. For example, "Totally legal Microsoft for a tenth of the price WINDOWS X'P Pro + OFFICE X.P Pro - 80 Dollars Contact: http://cork.perfect-oemcds.biz." Microsoft Office is dominant because Microsoft apparently takes a relaxed attitude toward stopping pirates.

    That's the later years. What made Microsoft dominant in the early years? Here are my observations and conclusions and opinions:

    Back then, IBM executives did not know how to type. They had secretaries for that. IBM was then on the way down. (In later years it was resurrected.) IBM executives did not want to create a mess in their brains by remembering actual technical facts. That's a short way of depicting the IBM culture back then.

    IBM executives went to see the then-dominant OS seller Digital Research to arrange an OS for the IBM PC. When they arrived the DR CEO had decided to fly his private plane instead, and his wife was less than respectful. Then the executives went to Microsoft, and Microsoft licensed DOS rather than selling it. Back then the IBM PC was not a product an IBM manager wanted on his resume. A product that would only be used by secretaries probably didn't seem important.