Best Degree to Pair w/ a B.Sc. in Computer Science?

VeryCleverHandle asks: "I have held a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science for about two years now, and I want to further my education, and increase my marketability. I am wondering what kind of degree makes a good pair for my existing one. At first, I thought of a Master's, but in my searches for a job, I've rarely (read: never) seen a Masters degree required. I am also researching what kind of degrees others, who have obtained their Bachelor's, received to help complement their education. So I ask you, Slashdot: Which degree(s) do YOU think will go well with a Computer Science Bachelors?"

Comments

Three Letters:

[Maradine]

MBA. You've learned how. Now learn why. The resultant doubling of your earnings potential is just a sad side-effect you're going to have to learn to cope with.

Re:Three Letters:

[Anonymous Coward]

Pick your school carefully. Some MBAs aren't worth the paper they're printed on and others are excellent.

Re:Three Letters:

[stupidfoo]

You've learned how. Now learn why managers are such a bunch of idiotic fools!

Re:Three Letters:

[EnronHaliburton2004]

The resultant doubling of your earnings potential is just a sad side-effect you're going to have to learn to cope with.

You'll also have to cope with the huge influx with people graduating with MBAs over the next few years. I have to wonder if the market is going to be flooded with too many MBAs soon.

Don't get me wrong. Education is a good thing, but it really seems like everyone and his sister are enrolling in an MBA program.

Re:Three Letters:

[Maradine]

100% true. I would counter, however, that MBA's with a solid computer science degree are not. I can only speak from what I have seen, and those in this field that also understand the fundamental business reasons behind IT have done extremely well for themselves. YMMV. *shrug*

M

Re:Three Letters:

[ndtechnologies]

Well, Dexter Holland (singer of Offspring) was majoring in Bionuclear Engineering at USC, and then decided to start a punk band...seems to me that the options are limitless as far as what degree goes well with another...

Re:Three Letters:

[Anonymous Coward]

CPA! I had the same issue about a year ago. I went back to school but wanted to make sure I came out of class with something that will always hold its value. I deceided to load up on accounting courses and sit for the CPA exam. The opportunities for a CPA are limitless. A CPA with CS in an audit position are tremendous. Its worth looking into.

Re:Three Letters:

[Kick the Donkey]

Most people that hold MBA's aren't worth the paper their MBA's are printed on...

Re:Three Letters:

[BoRictor]

Except now you are an accountant. Gah i'd rather jab pointy objects into my eyes than have to be an accountant. Or even worse - program accounting software.

Re:Three Letters:

[acherrington]

Be very careful about when you get your MBA.. Don't get trapped where I am. Currently I have a BS in Networking Technology (kinda a rare degree), and an MBA.

I worked for two years while doing my masters at night. Where do I stand now? Overqualified a computer posistion and under qualified as a manager of any sort. No companies have been interested. Wait a couple years on the MBA if you are fresh outa college.

Re:Three Letters:

[carlos_benj]

Employers like well rounded employees.

Eat lot's of Krispy Kreme donuts then....

Re:Three Letters:

[grumpygrodyguy]

Yep, same thing with Boston and Rage Against the Machine. Ivy league schools will do that to you.

Re:Three Letters:

[ocbwilg]

The differentiating factor is going to be whether or not you know anything else. Having an MBA is great, but if you haven't worked for large companies or in management before then your degree is largely theoretical. I liken today's overabundance of MBA programs to the overabundance of MCSE boot camps from 4 or 5 years ago. They'll churn out candidates by the thousands, but unless the candidates have the practical experience to back up their diplomas, they're going to begin to find that those MBAs aren't worth much at all.

This is not to say that having an MBA with no experience means that you're useless. It just means that you're going to have a harder time competing.

Re:Three Letters:

[drix]

And I'd rather use a well-designed accounting package than have to deal with pointers to objects. :)

Re:Three Letters:

[ShieldW0lf]

Most people that hold MBA's aren't worth the paper their MBA's are printed on...

As opposed to those with a CS degree?

You've wasted enough of your life in school. Go DO stuff. How many years did you spend not making shit income in school and how much money did you spend to be there? Imagine what you could have done with that time if you'd gotten a computer, some books, and gone about making shit happen?

Education is what employers settle for when they can't get their hands on someone with experience. Stop wasting your life and go get started.

Re:Three Letters:

[renehollan]

Except now you are an accountant. Gah i'd rather jab pointy objects into my eyes than have to be an accountant. Or even worse - program accounting software.

You sir, have never experienced the joy of using not one, but two international tax treaties, to make income from a foreign assignment by a non-U.S. citizen that would otherwise not be taxable in the U.S. intentionally so taxable (and, *poof*, completely offset by foreign tax credits, ta da!), so the eligible moving expenses associated with the assignment, but paid in the following year, when a U.S. tax resident, are deductable against U.S. income in that following year.

Accounting has the potential for some interesting hacks. When was the last time you got to (figuratively), go "Nyeah, nyeah, nyeah, nyeah, nyeah!" to the IRS, and the CRA (Canada Revenue Agency)?

Re:Three Letters:

[MagicDude]

As a medical student, I have to point out that one can't really just "decide" to get an MD degree. There are a lot of hoops to jump through just to get into medical school. Consider that throughout the US, there are 16000 seats in all the medical schools per year, and there are 48000 applicants vying for them. Then, the requirements for admitance to any medical school are as follows - 1 year of biology with lab, one year of chemistry with lab, one year of physics with lab, one year of organic chemistry with lab, one year of english/literature. Those are the requirements for EVERY medical school in the US. Then there are certain schools which require you to have taken biochemistry or calculus as well. More than likely, a person who majored in comp sci hasn't taken biology or organic chemistry, or for that matter, chemistry and physics either. So that's a minimum of 1 year of post bac work before even applying to medical school. Then there's the matter of the MCAT, an eight hour standardized exam from hell testing physics, chemistry, biology, O-Chem, reading comprehension, and writing 2 essays. Oh yeah, it's only offered twice a year (April and August), and it costs about $200 to take. Then there's applying to schools. The harsh reality of applying to med school is that there's no "safety school" that one can apply to that they are garunteed admission like you could do for undergrad. Thus, most people will apply to about 10-15 schools in order to get 1 or 2 acceptances (unless of course, you are L33t with a capital three). Application costs for that many schools will easily run about $1200. Then there's the costs of going out on interviews (med schools do not reimburse you for travel expenses unlike every other civilized interview on the planet). And then once (or if) you get an acceptance, it's four grueling and expensive years (med school has painfully little in common with the wild and hedonistic lifystyle of an undergrad). Then it's 4-8 years of poorly paid residency, though a few do turn to the "dark side" where they pass on the residency and instead work for insurance companies or some other kind of corporation, where they make big bucks, but aren't licensed to practice medicine, but instead use their degree to lend credence towards whatever project they are assigned to. So if medicine is a path you choose, more power to ya, but it's not a decision you can just make one day and be like "Hmmm, I think I'll become a doctor today". All that being said, there is a nationwide shortage of nurses, and male nurses are always in demand. Nursing is a 4 year degree, but with your degree, I'm sure some credits would transfer and you could finish in less time. And with medicine becoming more and more computerized, someone with a strong background in comp sci and medicine/nursing could probably find some pretty good work in hospital IT. But again, medicine is a calling, not a backup plan.

Re:Three Letters:

[repetty]

I'm glad you're studying medicine because my head just fucking blew up reading your gargantuan paragraph.

Is there more than one thought in all of that? I just couldn't get through it.

Re:Three Letters:

[Doomdark]

Education is what employers settle for when they can't get their hands on someone with experience.

Actually, while experience is very valuable, I'd rather not hire a programmer that has no college education. Although it is possible to learn everything CS degrees teach without attending actual school, very few people do that. It's just more efficient to learn that as part of a degree -- although you have to learn quite a bit more than what you will eventually need, you never know which parts are things you do NOT need. Without knowing at least something about compiler theory, relational model, discrete maths, data structure basics, algorithms etc., you aren't much of a software developer; no matter how much experience you have doing more trivial programming.

At least in CS it's simple: like they say, simple problems were all solved in 60s (if not 50s). If you do not learn what the great minds learnt/invented/solved (but rather go and solve them by trial and error... or worse, never learn them!), you are just colossaly wasting your time. Either you are ignorant of useful techniques, or you have used awfully lots of time reinventing the wheel.

However, after learning enough (B.Sc, or maybe M.Sc... depends on kinds of things you are working on), I certainly agree one has to go out and use the knowledge. Going for higher degrees without intervening real-world experience is as silly as ignoring 'formal' CS theory altogether.

Re:Three Letters:

[boodaman]

School is a waste? That's just wrong.

If you want to work in the same position all your life, then great. Stay out of school, and just get experience.

If, however, you don't want to stay in the same position all your life, go to school. It is a must.

If you have 20 yrs experience in a job (or 5, or 10), all that says about you is that you can do that job. Period. It says nothing about your potential, it says nothing about your willingness (and ability) to extend yourself, it says nothing about what you CAN do or MIGHT do given the chance, it only describes what you've DONE.

I'm speaking firsthand...I used to think like you...who needed college? I've been coding since I was 12 (over 25 yrs). I was writing business apps in COBOL before I could drive a car. And yep, I got some good jobs as a developer and sys-admin. But those were the ONLY jobs I got, and I only got those jobs in small companies (less than 100 people). Why? Because I didn't have a degree.

The year after I went back and completed my degree, I was hired into a Fortune 10 company at a 60% increase in salary, one annual review from management. This is after continually being rejected by that company and similar companies.

What changed? Did I learn a new language? Nope. Get certified in some new technology? Nope. Get another year, or 5, or 10 years of experience? Nope. The ONLY thing that changed was getting my degree.

Does not having a degree mean you can't do a particular job? Probably not. But I can tell you firsthand that without the degree, your options for growth, variety, and additional responsibility are severely limited. The game might suck, but in most cases, you still have to play it, and that means "punching your ticket" at the undergrad level, and eventually the grad level.

School isn't for everyone, and I totally agree that you should have a plan for getting a return on your investment. I know people getting their MBA who have no plan for how having their MBA degree will make a difference in their careers, or what kind of job they will need afterwards to make getting the degree worth it from an expense perspective. I think that's lame. However, I think getting the degree is an excellent idea, provided you have a plan for working it to your advantage.

To the original question: don't get a MBA...in another year, MBAs will be a dime a dozen, like MCSEs. If it were me, I'd specialize: MS in Library Science, or MS in Information Systems, or MS in Technology Management, or MS in Information Assurance, etc.

Re:Three Letters:

[utlemming]

However, this presents an interesting attitude -- those with degrees think they are better and those with out degrees think that they are also as high. Usually those with out a degree are the ones that malaign education. Where I work, there is an interesting relationship. I work as Garden Center Manager, while pursuing my degree in Information Systems. All of my knowledge in plants is that which I have learned on my own and through on the job experience. My knowledge is practical in the area of horticulture. My problem is that I don't have a sufficent framework to understand how some of the products work. Sometimes the formally educated comes to me to ask questions, and sometimes I go to them to ask them questions. From my experience of having learned how to program on my own, and drawing on the experience of having worked with plants, I can see the value an education. I have become a much better programmer learning in a formal structure. The value that I can see is that formal education teaches people how to think the same way and why things are done in a certain way.

I guess the point here is that the formal and informal learning all have value. It seems like those who haven't had a formal education have an inferiority complex, and those who have had a formal education have a superiority complex. A degree in whatever, while merely a piece of paper represents that the person has done something, and learned how to learn. I know that the lessons that I have learned in college are far beyond the classes I have taken. And if I would not trade what I have learned for anything. Sure it would be nice to make a ton of money right now, and to enjoy the perks, the evolution of my character, personality, and knowledge is worth too much to me. When I graduate, it is going to be worth far more than a piece of paper: it will represent a period of my life where I have grown up a whole lot.

Re:Three Letters:

[I_Love_Pocky!]

I've noticed that people without an education generally seem to view education in one of two ways: Either they wish they had more education, or they denounce education as a waste of money/time. All I can say is that the later opinion is rather short sighted, and I think it stems from a desire to prove that they are every bit as good as someone with an education. But what does it mean to be just as good? In the context of programmers, does that just mean that they are just as good at programming? Programming isn't a difficult task, and if that is all some one wants to do in life, then I admit that a CS degree is probably not going to be necessary.

Maybe you can do what someone with a CS degree is supposed to be able to do, but education isn't just about learning marketable skills. I'm just about done with a Masters in Computer Science, and I can certainly tell you that getting the degree was well worth my time. I really feel like I have a much broader understanding of Computer Science now, and that is worth something to me. Maybe it won't make me more marketable (I think it will), but money isn't everything. I love the subject, and I love learning about it.

I recommend a masters degree to anyone who just wants to know more.

Re:Three Letters:

[spectecjr]

Maybe you can do what someone with a CS degree is supposed to be able to do, but education isn't just about learning marketable skills. I'm just about done with a Masters in Computer Science, and I can certainly tell you that getting the degree was well worth my time. I really feel like I have a much broader understanding of Computer Science now, and that is worth something to me. Maybe it won't make me more marketable (I think it will), but money isn't everything. I love the subject, and I love learning about it.

The point is, surely, that a piece of paper is no substitute for skill, talent and passion for the subject matter.

I've got a degree in Physics, and I can hold my own against anyone with a CS degree except when it comes to calculating Big O notation for algorithms. I can do it informally, and back-of-the-envelope it, but I can't formally calculate the speed of an algorithm. I do, however, know what makes a fast algorithm, what makes a slow one, and know to pick the appropriate one for the task at hand.

Re:Three Letters:

[I_Love_Pocky!]

I've got a degree in Physics

That is hardly not having an education. If I could recommend any other degree (other than CS) to an aspiring programmer, it would be Physics. It may even be preferable to a CS degree. There is no question that getting a Physics degree shows that you can think (and it helps develop those skills).

The point is, surely, that a piece of paper is no substitute for skill, talent and passion for the subject matter.

Agreed, but my point was that I often hear people who don't have an education attack education as worthless. I really don't see how they could know that.

Re:Three Letters:

[LnxAddct]

Err... My university required me to take just about all those courses that you mentioned, not too mention a hell of alot more math courses, tons of physics from newtonian and quantum, to astrophyics, not to mention chemistry and biology all with labs. Don't underestimate a CS degree, just underestimate the school. The requirements for anything vary greatly from school to school, I just happened to choose one that challenged me, but taught me more then ever imaginable.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Three Letters:

[cheetr]

I've got a rinky-dink piece of paper from a school that no longer exists. Took me 8 months to get, wasn't worth shit, wasted a lot of money, haven't used anything that I learned in there since I got out.

All I can say is choose your schools/programs better. Some off the wall certification in using windows or some crap from "Computer School Incorporated" is not even close to what real education is. On the other hand, you only learn by teaching yourself. Programs and Professors are only facilitators.

I can think of a few...

[Jhon]

A Business degree. After your 40th birthday, you may find it difficult to find new employment if the need arrises. If you've got a business degree and have moved in to managment, you'll probably find it easier. The pay will be better, too.

A Mathematics degree "plays" nicely with a CS degree, too.

Re:I can think of a few...

[The Amazing Fish Boy]

A Business degree

I second that.

Not to mention, when you get a business degree, you will be able to more easily understand why management does as they do, and get along better with your managers. Then you're likely to get promoted in-house, in which case your "underlings" will know you as a programmer and you'll likely get respect. You'll also be able to understand them, and make informed decisions. A bridge between management and IT. Just don't try to micromanage.

Of course, that's in-house. Getting a different job would be easier, too.

Another thing is your health. It may not be a good idea for health reasons to program all day long into your sixties. Just a thought.

Re:I can think of a few...

[nite_warrior]

Not only those. The best thing I find about comp sci is that it can be nicely combined with pretty much everything from the "big sciences" to arts or any other thing.

Hindi

[lecithin]

I don't know about a degree, but I would recommend taking Hindi.

Interpretive Dance

[Gilmoure]

Entertain your users.

Re:Interpretive Dance

[Lemmy Caution]

"I call this next piece, 'Scope Drift.'"

The choreography consists of taking the original requirements, ripping them to shreds, and running around screaming as you throw them into the air like confetti.

Biochemistry

[dso]

I would have to say the Biochemistry is your best bet. That whole area of research is becoming dependent of computer technology. Datamining is a large part of genetic research along with molecular modeling (proteins) and distributed computer systems. Also, take a look at SGI (www.sgi.com) and see what they are doing. Their core business is focusing on areas where computers and science converge.

Re:Biochemistry

[BWJones]

It really depends upon what he wants to do. A Masters or doctorate in bioinformatics combined with a bachelors in CS will get you a job very quickly and would be a much better choice than biochemistry if he really wanted to do that kind of work. Look at any one of these programs for bioinformatics training.

Chemistry, economics, business, biology, genetics, physics, computer science, neuroscience are all fields that could use folks with some training in computer science to help with modeling and other problems related to their work.

SGI is one possibility, but most folks doing this sort of work are looking at more inexpensive hardware and building clusters of commodity hardware to do their work. Also Apple's Xserves are proving to be quite cost effective and screaming performers for genetics work.

Best thing to pair with a degree in Comp. Sci?

[DataPath]

Experience. Nothing even compares.

Depends..

[ackthpt]

What area would you like to employ your Computer Science skillz in? It's actually a great companion degree for Business, Bio-Sciences, Engineering, etc. as it give you greater insight into how you may either create tools to aide your work or be well informed when selecting vendors. This of course assumes you don't just want to be a code or systems jockey.

I find even discussions with a friend in a branch of advertising is hardly served by some of the applications available to him and after an hour talking about what he does and, seeing what he really needs to get through a day, could probably whip together something simple that would do it, rather than the garbage in MS Office he has to wrestle with.

Consider the pros of taking a respectable understanding of technology into a career in law or politics, even.

.. all base of the party of the first part will become property of the party of the second part ..

Mathematics

[jnapalm]

Most pairable degree with Computer Science: Mathematics. Affinity for math tells employers you're capable of high level, abstract thought.

Re:Mathematics

[scovetta]

Most pairable degree with Computer Science: Mathematics. Affinity for math tells employers you're capable of high level, abstract thought. I agree-- I've got a dual BS (comp sci/math), and then a masters in comp sci. It's good if you want to stay technical for a while. If you're intent is to manage, you might as well go for an MBA or a communications degree. I've heard from people in similar positions that MBA programs are a joke compared to the hardcore science classes (but I'm sure some /.ers will mod me down for that.

Re:Mathematics

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

I'm doing fine writing code with my Mathematics PhD (>$200,000 salary last few years (dropped a bit this year - working on fixing it)). So did Sergey Brin. Most people I know who studied mathematics just forgot it all when they finished their course. Some people (like Brin) have the sense to actually use it to solve difficult problems that non-mathematicians can't solve. Mathematics isn't just for entertainment value, some of it can actually be applied in the real world.

Easy

[BoomerSooner]

MBA. You're exactly who it was invented for, not the alreay have a BBA and don't want to get a job types that I see in business school. Or you could go EE which is a good pairing as well, I have friends who did that and have done very well for themselves.

Finishing school...

[aquarian]

...where you can learn manners, grooming, and human interaction.

Depends...

[nozomiyume]

I would think it would depend on what parts of CS appeal to you - for example, a degree in Math tends to be a good augmentation to a CS degree if you were going into Data Analysis, or databases. But if you were writing a physics engine, a Physics degree would be useful. Generally, I would say that a Math or Business degree would be a good augmentation.

Thank Goodness

[DanielMarkham]

This wasn't another one of those posts where you had to read some long article and make comments. This is one of those "Do you like ice cream?" questions.

Go for the business degree, kid. Whatever you do in this world, there will always be a business manager over you (or working for you)

And yes, I do like ice cream.

A Language

[Oen_Seneg]

Not stricly a degree, but learn a real language (French/German/Japanese) and you can actually get some quite interesting jobs. Worst case scenario, you'd be translating software or giving foreign language tech support, but employers quite like people with language skills for some unknown reason.

Re:A Language

[Neo-Rio-101]

employers quite like people with language skills for some unknown reason.

They like us because we not only know computer languages, but human languages as well. It shows you also have social skills and the ability to understand people from otherwise completely different ways of thinking. The ability to communicate effectively with other people is important in tricky situations with users, and when working as a sysadmin in a team of engineers as well.

Actually I work in a Japanese research institute which has a lot of foreign researchers, so they need me to make all the bilingual "System maintenance" notice emails.... and to politely deal with foreign researchers when they have problems, and when they've been naughty and tried to use BitTorrent on our network.

Re:A Language

[PakProtector]

Nien! Iie! Baka! Leib, Mien Leib! You let the damn secret out of the bag! Computer Science ga oshiete kureta ka... ne

What's your ultimate goal?

[delcielo]

If you're looking at eventually rising through the ranks into management and executive positions, an MBA would be a good idea.

If you want to be a tech for the long haul, perhaps a degree in mathematics.

Whatever you do, remember also that communication skills are important. You're not typically taught them in college (at least not very well); but your advancement will to some degree depend on them.

Art...?

[RootsLINUX]

Well if programming is what you love and what you want to do for the rest of your life, why not focus on getting a degree in artwork? Sure we can all write hard-core programs and scripts that run from a command line, but what about our less-enlightened users who require a GUI and colorful buttons to do anything with their computer? To those users, appearance is VERY important, maybe even moreso than performance to some people. I wish I had time to focus on developing my art skills right now for personal reasons/projects, but I'm too busy writing esoteric Perl scripts...>_>

MARKETING!!!

[gonar]

then you'd be EVERY engineer's worst nightmare, a marketroid with an engineering degree but no engineering experience!

seriously. work in the industry for 5 years, then go back to school, experience is more valuable than any piece of paper.

Indeed

[dsginter]

Carly had a Bachelors in medieval history but was able to become the CEO of a once impressive company because of her MBA. Not that she was any good at it but she did get a hefty severance package.

Re:Indeed

[provolt]

You can generally teach people to become acceptable coders. You generally can't teach people communication skills.

A project team with a dozen acceptable coders who can communicate well will outperform a project with a dozen brilliant coders who can't communicate and can't work in teams.

Psychology.

[k96822]

Psychology. Don't laugh, my Psychology minor has been extremely useful, particularly the classes that dealt with cognitive Psychology, which is directly applicable to human-computer interfaces. I intend to turn that into a full Bachelor's someday.

seriously

[MagicM]

1) Get a degree in a field that interests you.

2) Don't Get a degree to increase your "marketability", unless it increases your "marketability" in a field that you would want a job in. In which case, see (1).

Re:seriously

[Joe the Lesser]

I agree. Stop powergaming your career. Study what you like, and let opportunities come to you. If you're serious and professional minded, someone will find you whatever path you choose, and if you want the highest salary, then you won't be happy regardless.

Re:seriously

[nine-times]

This is by far the best answer in this thread. Perhaps it's the only good answer I've read. I've talked to a couple 19 year olds recently who've asked me what they should major in if they want to get a good job. Like there's a "right answer". Kids starting out always want to know how to get "a good job"-- just abstractly, "a good job". As in, you take specific classes, get "a good job", and live happily ever after.

If you're thinking about going back to school, just look into a lot of different subjects, and when you find something that you're really interested in, and the idea of taking classes on that subject is sort of exciting, take some classes in that.

If your real concern is that you're looking for is a token degree to give your resume a superficial bump, than it sounds like the job you're well-suited for is that of a PHB, in which case go ahead and get your MBA. You'll learn all the market-speak necessary to synergize best-business-practices in order to get the greatest possible ROI.

Otherwise, take some interesting classes and see where it leads you.

For me one choice

[The Mutant]

A Masters degree in Quantitative Finance.

YMMV. Pick a degree that compliments what you are interested in. Not what the consensus on /. suggests.

After all, you're gonna be the one stuck with the job that it leads you to. The degree could be a marketing MBA, or in Biochemistry or Astronomy, etc, etc.

But you've gotta be happy with it.

What do you like to do?

[Gil-galad55]

It all depends on where you want to go with your career. If you really enjoy computer science, I'd recommend a maths degree, as this will take you a long way with theoretical computer science. That having been said, a PhD in compsci would probably be even better.

I myself have CS and physics bachelors, but my primary aim is at physics. I found the compsci degree helpful when I was doing work in particle physics, as I was writing tons of analytical code. Also, if you planned on doing development for government labs, an ability to create accurate models is a good thing, and physics will help with that.

Management, obviously MBA. I'd also consider a humanities (particularly English) degree; we always complain about the plight of the illiterate programmer/engineer/scientist. Well-spoken and clear-writing employees look good and go a long way. 3-4 years is a major commitment to polish up your writing, though! That having been said, I find I need the humanities to stay sane, so it's probably time well spent...

J.D. Patent Lawyer

[darkmeridian]

If you can get into a top ten law school, then you can become a patent lawyer and make a few hundred thousand dollars right out of school. Big firms pay $125K base (not counting bonuses) for patent attorneys from top ten schools--no legal experience (aside from law school) necessary.

Re:J.D. Patent Lawyer

[EZmagz]

That's a big IF, mi amigo. Getting into a top-10 law school is very, very hard. Even top-25 is more selective that most can deal with.

Besides, most CS grads would make horrible lawyers in general for one significant reason: they have horrible communication skills. Lawyers have to be intelligent and very analytical (a trait many with CS degrees have), but also be able to effectively communicate ideas with others (a trait very few CS holders have in my experience).

Keep in mind this is coming from someone who has a CS degree from undergrad, and a few of my friends (and one of my siblings) have attended the top law schools in the US. Let me tell you this, you'd be hard-pressed to find a group of more rabid alphas that people in competitive law schools. And somehow "CS geek" and "rabid alpha male/female" rarely refer to the same person.

No need for another degree...

[Psiren]

While I respect you for wanting to further your education, I would argue obtaining another degree is the wrong way to do it. It's been said a million times, but there really is absolutely no substitute for experience, and 3 years of it is worth far more than another piece of paper. Knowing the theory, and being able to put it to use in real life situations are two different things. I suspect you already know this as you obtained your degree two years ago, and hopefully have been employed for at least some of that time.

Unless of course you are looking to learn something totally unrelated to Computer Science in order to provide an additional route for employment. If that's the case, only you can make that choice, and asking people here is silly. If you're not interested in the subject, you're highly unlikey to be motivated enough to do the best you can at it.

JD

[theMerovingian]

I'm going to go to law school starting in August. You can work in the field of high-tech law, intellectual property, and patents... I personally am more interested in the software business than I am in writing code, so take that with a grain of salt.

And, you can also diversify into numerous other legal specializations if you get bored or need a change of pace.

The average starting salary varies wildly depending on the type of entity you work for and your geographic location. But, it is my suspicion that you could pretty readily get a decent management job at a software company with 1) technical experience; 2) a BS in CS; and 3) a JD.

There's always the option of going into private practice, or you could work for the FBI/CIA/NSA if you have a penchant for government work (and a clean background).

There's lots more to say on the subject of techno-lawyers, so I'm interested to see what else people have to say Re: law school.

Re:JD

[cfulmer]

As a 2d year law student with a long engineering background, I think I have some input here...

(1) Patent lawyers are occasionally referred to as the "Dermatologists of the legal profession" -- they work semi-normal hours and get paid well.

(2) Patent is also hard to branch back out of if you don't like it -- you tend to pigeonhole yourself.

(3) Don't make your decision based on salary -- better to be poor and happy than rich and miserable. Also, while lawyers coming out of the top 12 or so law schools will typically start at $125-135/yr, those salary figures drop dramatically in the next tier. You don't want to rack on a bunch of debt only to find out that you're working more hours but making about what you were before.

I don't think that a JD would give you any help in management -- the only management skill you learn in law school is time management.

On the other hand, lawyers are the grease of the economy -- nothing much happens without them. When things go well, you need lawyers. And, when things go poorly, you need lawyers. Not too many legal jobs being outsourced to Bangalore.

Ooh that why !

[MPHellwig]

Surely explains her medieval management style.

What do you want to be when you grow up?

[winkydink]

That's what you should get a master's in. At this point in your career, I would offer to you that relevant experience in your field is going to do more to increase your marketability much more than a master's.

Human factors, UI design and evaluation

[dduck]

It has worked very well for me. There is a renewed interest in devices that work well both technically and UI-wise, but very few people are trained in both diciplines. You will be /in/ the interface... a good place to be, if you want to have real influence on the final product.

Oh, and it's also a good starting point for striking out on your own as an innovator.

What about law?

[OldSchoolNapster]

Ive been considering persuing a law degree after I finish CS for some time now. I'll probably choose to work assuming I'm able to find a job but I was wondering how other people with CS degrees enjoyed law school and what opportunities it has opened up.

Re:What about law?

[richieb]

At a Linux user's group meeting, maybe two or three years ago, we had a lawyer talk about IP, patents etc. He said that there are law firms paying premium ($50K startup bonus), for lawyers with technical degrees.

No Kannada (was Hindi)

[Lulu of the Lotus-Ea]

Hindi is not the principle language of Karnakata, the state where Bangalore is located; Kannada is its official and largest language. Of course, in practice, tech workers in Bangalore come from different regions of India--or indeed, the world--so probably English is even more common in technical workplaces.

Re:No Kannada (was Hindi)

[spamspamspamspam]

I work for the Australian arm of a very large Indian IT company and I can confirm that English is by far the most common language used in IT outsourcing companies. Remember that English is an official language of India.

I wonder how successful Indian outsourcing would have been had the English had not set up a colony and left their language there.

I'll second that

[vlad_petric]

While not directly saying it, what most employers appreciate is the ability to deliver. Best way to achieve this in college? An opensource project.

English!

[saintp]

Seriously. You'll stand out among a bunch of other CS weenies who probably barely even speak the language -- not to mention all of the H-1 visa holders. (Ever read /.? Case in point.) An English degree tells potential employers that you can a) communicate effectively, and b) research thoroughly; both are highly valued by the people who do the hiring. You'll be much more appealing than the hordes of MBA grads, whose major marketable skill is that they can say "ROI" a lot.

If English doesn't appeal to you, any degree in the humanities will look great, since most require language and research skills, and present you as a well-rounded renaissance person, not a single-minded code zombie. (Read: as someone who makes decisions, not as someone who is subject to them.) History is also particularly good.

Remember: CS majors stereotypically are introverted nerds who can't communicate with anyone who doesn't speak LISP. CS majors with MBAs are stereotypically suit-wearing nerd-wannabes who can't communicate with anyone who doesn't speak Marketroid. Anything you can do to prove that you're not either of those will help a lot.

The passion

[charvolant]

Only do a postgraduate degree if you have a passion for the subject matter. If you do have that passion, you'll have a great time, a really interesting life and meet lots of clever, deranged and interesting people.

You will also never be rich -- unless you are extremely lucky.

But that is a judgement call on your part. It is, however, worth remembering that "quality of life" and "standard of living" are not equivalent.

Mechanical Engineering

[RPI Geek]

I'd say that your second degree should really reflect your interests. If you're looking to do something that you have a passion for, and you don't care about the marketability, just study something that you love. If you're looking for marketability alone, get a business degree. If you're trying to break into a certain field, study the area most closely related to it.

I'm studying for a dual bachelor's in MechE / CS at RPI. Combining these majors was one of the best things I did at RPI. I love working with computers and I love learning about the mechanical world; I didn't choose my majors solely because that's what I wanted to do for a job.

I didn't think a dual degree would be very marketable, but now that I'm looking for a job, I'm finding that not only are the employers from both fields contacting me, but when I talk to them, they love the fact that I'm able to talk as comfortably about program stacks as grar trains.

Just one poor student's opinion.

Biology

[FleaPlus]

There's a huge demand for computational/quantitative folks in the biological sciences. Plus, the work you do there is freakin' cool (speaking as a theoretical neurobiologist).

You may find the following article in PLoS Biology interesting:

Mathematics Is Biology's Next Microscope, Only Better; Biology Is Mathematics' Next Physics, Only Better

Gee...wonder why?

[Mr. Underbridge]

They are hired strictly as good team players with good communication skills, who are good corporate citizens.

So what you're saying is, you can code OK but you have poor communication skills and can't fit in with the corporate structure.

Don't want to be mean, but it isn't your CS degree that's the problem - the people getting the jobs have those too, remember - it's your lack of social skills.

Imagine someone with good people skills who can code too? I bet that person gets the job.

I'd rather see hiring based on pure skills, but that's not how U.S IT companies do it.

Until you find this magical job that allows you to be the sole developer on your own project, people skills are relevant skills for a programmer. It seems to be something you lack, so don't be surprised by your inability to find a job you feel is commensurate with your coding abilities.

This isn't college anymore. You don't get to work by yourself. A good coder who can't interact with people is less valuable than a decent coder who can.

If you care to notice, you could learn a valuable life lesson here.

a Foriegn language - preferably chineese or Hindi

[MerlynEmrys67]

You will be working there soon enough anyway - might as well speak the language

If you have to ask, you're not ready

[ediron2]

For a while after finishing college, you feel drawn back to the college life. Be sure you're not going back just because it's comfortable. If you don't even care if you're gonna become a manager, head-geek, marketdroid, tech-writer, tech-law guru or whatever (what *Degree* depends on your answer to that question), you're seriously not prime for grad school.

One friend's dad offered to pay for her grad school completely after she'd worked 5 years. Wise man: she's never looked back.

Another friend, the smartest science/tech student in years at my high school, stopped with a BS, moved to Silicon Valley, and says she'd literally *fall behind* in her field if she left work for 1-3 years. I kind of doubt this, since she could nail additional courses in her area as they paralleled her work until the degree sorta just plopped in her lap one day. She publishes enough. She studies and learns new stuff enough. But the degree also stopped mattering to anyone she knows *years* ago.

Another friend nailed a triple major, which took him longer than the rest of us. It didn't gain him any of the cash or glamour he bragged he'd get. That's some serious money wasted.

My own take is that graduate work should wait until you start finding something really compelling to become gods-own-expert in. Let me say it again: if you don't even care if you're gonna become a manager, head-geek, marketdroid, tech-writer, tech-law guru or whatever (what *Degree* depends on your answer to that question), you're seriously not prime for grad school. Take a class or two. Or just dive into some side project to gain some focus: pick a subset from that list of career paths and find a way to get experience in it.

I did some grad courses, and exited because it was clear that I wasn't sure what I wanted to do yet, and figured if I was going to become a PhD, it had better be in something I gave a rat's-ass about.

Ten years later, I'm fairly certain what that might be. If I weren't having so much fun with work, wife, kids, life in general, I'd probably go back. Once the kids aren't a delightful distraction, I'll start picking an ideal college/mentor or three to contact and apply to.

Caveat: grad degrees are candy: I approve, but I don't preach 'em. OTOH, Bachelor's degrees are not optional IMHO: they're a 2-way vaccine: at some point not having one can kill your career advancement; and they're used by employers as a yardstick. Doesn't apply to you, doesn't matter here, but it's a big deal to me: I've seen a few friends really hurt by not having BS behind their name (usually happens pretty late in life). Mileage may vary and that's my humble opinion and the value-of-a-degree subject has been hammered to death on /.

hate to be serious but...

[AndyGasman]

Where i work our dream softie is someone with a ComSci and an ElecEng degree, though we do more embeded software. I recon ComSci and pure maths would be a good one for high brow software ;) or an ComSci and MBA for business systems.

Poli Sci... not just for policy wonks

[mertzman]

I know a few people here at my university who are dual majors in CS and Political Science. At first it seemed like an odd combination, but it works quite well both in terms of academics and employment prospects.

Political Science classes tend to be pretty flexible in terms of managing writing and reading assignments, so they mesh good with the more deadline-intensive CS projects. Since Poli Sci tends to emphasize writing, its also a good major to build your language skills with. (Not to mention, a political theory class with a unit on Machiavelli has priceless potential when its lessons are applied in the workplace!)

In terms of employment, there are a ton of opportunities in academia, business, and government. There's a surprisingly large demand for techies in political research, as things like polls often require lots of customized code to carry out statistical analyses. Then there's the government potential... a Poli Sci degree is a ticket into many government agencies, and combined with Comp Sci, you bring useful and much needed tech skills... (you'd be especially well suited if you wanted to go down that whole secret agent CIA/NSA/FBI sort of route).

Similarly, Sociology or Psychology also work well with CS from what I've heard, for many of the same reasons. So definitely don't overlook the social sciences as an option.

MIS Degree

[Zakir]

MIS or Management of Information Systems. This will give you more of the business part of it, but still keeping it mostly technical. and some certifications....

Consider the ethics first

[Anthony Liguori]

A good patent lawyer doesn't simply tell their client whether something is patentable. A good patent lawyer finds a way to make whatever their client brings them patentable in the broadest way possible.

If you have any doubts about how well the patent system works, this job is not for you. It's very much like a typically defense lawyer. Your job is to get the person the lightest sentence possible regardless of crime with faith in the fact that the system in general will work regardless of your abilities.

I'm not making a judgement about how well the system works or doesn't work. Just pointing out that you should consider this before you pursue this path.

And for what it's worth, dealing with IP lawyers has been the most pleasant lawyer-related experience I've had. Extremely bright people.

Major in any biology, but minor in CS

[Seoulstriker]

Unlike what is suggested by the parent, you don't "pick up" a little bit of molecular biology, or bioinformatics, or computational biology. The focus of your studies should be in studying the biology and then dabbling in a little bit of CS. Hell, I'm doing computational biology research and datamining bacterial genomes, and you hardly even need to know how to develop applications. I've primarily been doing scripting in PERL, and I'm trying to pick up a little python. If you know the fundamentals of programming, you don't even need to take a CS course.

If you're not motivated to do the biology coursework behind bioinformatics, you will not get anywhere in your career. Labs want people who can code a bit, not people who understand the fundamentals of designing operating systems. Mathematics, statistics, and scripting will get you farther than CS and a bit of bio will ever get you. Choose wisely.

Got a pipe wrench?

[rs79]

Get a plumbing degree. You're gonna be putting up with people's shit either way; you may as well get paid decently for it for a change.

It hurts when I do this

[rs79]

"Then there's the matter of the MCAT, an eight hour standardized exam from hell testing ..... writing 2 essays."

So, uh, how'd that work out for you?