Best Degree to Pair w/ a B.Sc. in Computer Science?

VeryCleverHandle asks: "I have held a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science for about two years now, and I want to further my education, and increase my marketability. I am wondering what kind of degree makes a good pair for my existing one. At first, I thought of a Master's, but in my searches for a job, I've rarely (read: never) seen a Masters degree required. I am also researching what kind of degrees others, who have obtained their Bachelor's, received to help complement their education. So I ask you, Slashdot: Which degree(s) do YOU think will go well with a Computer Science Bachelors?"

Comments

Three Letters:

[Maradine]

MBA. You've learned how. Now learn why. The resultant doubling of your earnings potential is just a sad side-effect you're going to have to learn to cope with.

Re:Three Letters:

[Anonymous Coward]

Pick your school carefully. Some MBAs aren't worth the paper they're printed on and others are excellent.

Re:Three Letters:

[stupidfoo]

You've learned how. Now learn why managers are such a bunch of idiotic fools!

Re:Three Letters:

[javester]

And an MBA is also useful if you want to become an enterpreneur.

It's also a good way to establish a network.

IMHO, being a lifelong employee is not the way to go. Learn the ropes and establish your networks in Corporate America, and then be your own boss.

I've seen too many capable people "synergized" out of a job by all the Mergers & Acquisitions happening out there.

Re:Three Letters:

[Dr. Evil]

An MBA with no management work experience is worthless... monitarily speaking.

Many universities won't even accept you into their program you unless you're in a management role.

Re:Three Letters:

[Anonymous Coward]

Really any advanced professional degree goes well with it. MBA is an obvious choices, but what about an MD, or a law degree? Most fields need people who have an advanced understanding of the field and the computer technology to go with it.

Re:Three Letters:

[EnronHaliburton2004]

The resultant doubling of your earnings potential is just a sad side-effect you're going to have to learn to cope with.

You'll also have to cope with the huge influx with people graduating with MBAs over the next few years. I have to wonder if the market is going to be flooded with too many MBAs soon.

Don't get me wrong. Education is a good thing, but it really seems like everyone and his sister are enrolling in an MBA program.

Re:Three Letters:

[Maradine]

100% true. I would counter, however, that MBA's with a solid computer science degree are not. I can only speak from what I have seen, and those in this field that also understand the fundamental business reasons behind IT have done extremely well for themselves. YMMV. *shrug*

M

Re:Three Letters:

[ndtechnologies]

Well, Dexter Holland (singer of Offspring) was majoring in Bionuclear Engineering at USC, and then decided to start a punk band...seems to me that the options are limitless as far as what degree goes well with another...

Re:Three Letters:

[Anonymous Coward]

CPA! I had the same issue about a year ago. I went back to school but wanted to make sure I came out of class with something that will always hold its value. I deceided to load up on accounting courses and sit for the CPA exam. The opportunities for a CPA are limitless. A CPA with CS in an audit position are tremendous. Its worth looking into.

Re:Three Letters:

[bfizzle]

And that is why you go for the Masters in CS or Project/Systems/Process Engineering. You can still get the management position, but it is much more rare.

Re:Three Letters:

[Kick the Donkey]

Most people that hold MBA's aren't worth the paper their MBA's are printed on...

Re:Three Letters:

[teidou]

Most fields need people who have an advanced understanding of the field and the computer technology to go with it.

I agree. In my experience, though, the role of IT-savvy physicians is to participate at high levels; you don't get to code much.

And it can be kind of frustrating to have an MD and an understanding of the field. For example, it's a pain to do research using most hospital infomation systems. The current paradigm is to manually look up patients and cut and paste results into Excel by hand. In my experience, asking for a SQL or ODBC connection to the database marks you as a bad guy.

That said, those hospitals that do get it really do seem to get it and you get to have a lot of fun.

Tait

Re:Three Letters:

[BoRictor]

Except now you are an accountant. Gah i'd rather jab pointy objects into my eyes than have to be an accountant. Or even worse - program accounting software.

Re:Three Letters:

[Psychofreak]

Medical Doctor? That's 8 REALLY EXPENSIVE years of your life. Better make sure it is your calling. Don't just look at the MD degree though, Investigate the DO degree as well.

Now Law you say? Well that is an expensive 2 to 4 years of your life that will teach you quite a lot about the world. Again, Not for everyone.

The MBA is good, but a general MBA isn't much. Try seeing what sub-specialties are available. There may be something that is more focused that YOU may be able to use. Knowing WHY your manager is a prick is useful too.

Grain of salt: This is from a person in retail sales with a Mechanical Engineering degree.

Have fun
Phil

Re:Three Letters:

[Anonymous Coward]

you say what, exactly?

Hello, I'd like a number one, with a coke please :D

Re:Three Letters:

[acherrington]

Be very careful about when you get your MBA.. Don't get trapped where I am. Currently I have a BS in Networking Technology (kinda a rare degree), and an MBA.

I worked for two years while doing my masters at night. Where do I stand now? Overqualified a computer posistion and under qualified as a manager of any sort. No companies have been interested. Wait a couple years on the MBA if you are fresh outa college.

Re:Three Letters:

[carlos_benj]

Employers like well rounded employees.

Eat lot's of Krispy Kreme donuts then....

Re:Three Letters:

[grumpygrodyguy]

Yep, same thing with Boston and Rage Against the Machine. Ivy league schools will do that to you.

Re:Three Letters:

[OwnedByTwoCats]

Tom Sholtz, of Boston, went to MIT, not an Ivy League school. Engineering, not Liberal Arts.

Re:Three Letters:

[ocbwilg]

The differentiating factor is going to be whether or not you know anything else. Having an MBA is great, but if you haven't worked for large companies or in management before then your degree is largely theoretical. I liken today's overabundance of MBA programs to the overabundance of MCSE boot camps from 4 or 5 years ago. They'll churn out candidates by the thousands, but unless the candidates have the practical experience to back up their diplomas, they're going to begin to find that those MBAs aren't worth much at all.

This is not to say that having an MBA with no experience means that you're useless. It just means that you're going to have a harder time competing.

Re:Three Letters:

[Pete (big-pete)]

MBA. You've learned how. Now learn why.

This story has come at a good time for me, as I was pondering the exact same issue, I am considering studying an MBA with the Open University, and the course starts in May so I need to move fast...

They have two MBAs that I'd consider as options though - and I'm somewhat undecided about which to go for:

• MBA (Technology Management)
• Master of Business Administration

I am a process engineer and process manager, involved in process control and improvement, particularly ITIL, ISO9000, and Business Continuity related disciplines. I also own my own consultancy company, and would like to take some big steps forward over the next 10 years or so. I'm not sure really which of the two would benefit me most, they're both quite expensive, so I want to make sure I get the most value from the course. I'm still 29 now, which I think is probably a good age to be thinking about an MBA - old enough to have some experience of business, but still young enough that I haven't completely forgotten how to study yet...

Anyone out there have experience of these courses, or any ideas on what the benefits of each are?

Cheers,

-- Pete.

Re:Three Letters:

[drix]

And I'd rather use a well-designed accounting package than have to deal with pointers to objects. :)

Re:Three Letters:

[ShieldW0lf]

Most people that hold MBA's aren't worth the paper their MBA's are printed on...

As opposed to those with a CS degree?

You've wasted enough of your life in school. Go DO stuff. How many years did you spend not making shit income in school and how much money did you spend to be there? Imagine what you could have done with that time if you'd gotten a computer, some books, and gone about making shit happen?

Education is what employers settle for when they can't get their hands on someone with experience. Stop wasting your life and go get started.

Re:Three Letters:

[renehollan]

Except now you are an accountant. Gah i'd rather jab pointy objects into my eyes than have to be an accountant. Or even worse - program accounting software.

You sir, have never experienced the joy of using not one, but two international tax treaties, to make income from a foreign assignment by a non-U.S. citizen that would otherwise not be taxable in the U.S. intentionally so taxable (and, *poof*, completely offset by foreign tax credits, ta da!), so the eligible moving expenses associated with the assignment, but paid in the following year, when a U.S. tax resident, are deductable against U.S. income in that following year.

Accounting has the potential for some interesting hacks. When was the last time you got to (figuratively), go "Nyeah, nyeah, nyeah, nyeah, nyeah!" to the IRS, and the CRA (Canada Revenue Agency)?

Re:Three Letters:

[omb]

First, you have to decide what you want to do/be.

As one who has been an academic and businessman, I think the MBA is overrated, it is essentially a cram course, better tought in a vocational school than a University, though it provides comfortable tenure for many. Also the very best schools have staff that manage to transcend the rather drab syllabus which could be described as the 'Idiots guide to Business'.

You really need to asses and research what you need to know and do not know; so as a CS major I would expect you to be numerate, but you might not know statistics and you do certainly need a basic understanding of statistics, law accounting and pschycology (aka marketing) to work in business.

To do that, you need to figure out what you want to do, then you can define what you need to know.

A last point, you first degree lasts 3-5 tears, a PG degree 4-7; after that it is professional reputation.

Re:Three Letters:

[MagicDude]

As a medical student, I have to point out that one can't really just "decide" to get an MD degree. There are a lot of hoops to jump through just to get into medical school. Consider that throughout the US, there are 16000 seats in all the medical schools per year, and there are 48000 applicants vying for them. Then, the requirements for admitance to any medical school are as follows - 1 year of biology with lab, one year of chemistry with lab, one year of physics with lab, one year of organic chemistry with lab, one year of english/literature. Those are the requirements for EVERY medical school in the US. Then there are certain schools which require you to have taken biochemistry or calculus as well. More than likely, a person who majored in comp sci hasn't taken biology or organic chemistry, or for that matter, chemistry and physics either. So that's a minimum of 1 year of post bac work before even applying to medical school. Then there's the matter of the MCAT, an eight hour standardized exam from hell testing physics, chemistry, biology, O-Chem, reading comprehension, and writing 2 essays. Oh yeah, it's only offered twice a year (April and August), and it costs about $200 to take. Then there's applying to schools. The harsh reality of applying to med school is that there's no "safety school" that one can apply to that they are garunteed admission like you could do for undergrad. Thus, most people will apply to about 10-15 schools in order to get 1 or 2 acceptances (unless of course, you are L33t with a capital three). Application costs for that many schools will easily run about $1200. Then there's the costs of going out on interviews (med schools do not reimburse you for travel expenses unlike every other civilized interview on the planet). And then once (or if) you get an acceptance, it's four grueling and expensive years (med school has painfully little in common with the wild and hedonistic lifystyle of an undergrad). Then it's 4-8 years of poorly paid residency, though a few do turn to the "dark side" where they pass on the residency and instead work for insurance companies or some other kind of corporation, where they make big bucks, but aren't licensed to practice medicine, but instead use their degree to lend credence towards whatever project they are assigned to. So if medicine is a path you choose, more power to ya, but it's not a decision you can just make one day and be like "Hmmm, I think I'll become a doctor today". All that being said, there is a nationwide shortage of nurses, and male nurses are always in demand. Nursing is a 4 year degree, but with your degree, I'm sure some credits would transfer and you could finish in less time. And with medicine becoming more and more computerized, someone with a strong background in comp sci and medicine/nursing could probably find some pretty good work in hospital IT. But again, medicine is a calling, not a backup plan.

Re:Three Letters:

[repetty]

I'm glad you're studying medicine because my head just fucking blew up reading your gargantuan paragraph.

Is there more than one thought in all of that? I just couldn't get through it.

Re:Three Letters:

[jadavis]

Your sarcastic comment doesn't really make sense. Of course managers don't do stuff. They want YOU to do it. If you go in and prove you can do stuff, that's less stuff for them to do and more money for them to make. If you go in and tell them how great you are at bean counting and holding meetings, that's more of their time wasted and less money for them. Not to mention you'll be competition for their job.

Re:Three Letters:

[Doomdark]

Education is what employers settle for when they can't get their hands on someone with experience.

Actually, while experience is very valuable, I'd rather not hire a programmer that has no college education. Although it is possible to learn everything CS degrees teach without attending actual school, very few people do that. It's just more efficient to learn that as part of a degree -- although you have to learn quite a bit more than what you will eventually need, you never know which parts are things you do NOT need. Without knowing at least something about compiler theory, relational model, discrete maths, data structure basics, algorithms etc., you aren't much of a software developer; no matter how much experience you have doing more trivial programming.

At least in CS it's simple: like they say, simple problems were all solved in 60s (if not 50s). If you do not learn what the great minds learnt/invented/solved (but rather go and solve them by trial and error... or worse, never learn them!), you are just colossaly wasting your time. Either you are ignorant of useful techniques, or you have used awfully lots of time reinventing the wheel.

However, after learning enough (B.Sc, or maybe M.Sc... depends on kinds of things you are working on), I certainly agree one has to go out and use the knowledge. Going for higher degrees without intervening real-world experience is as silly as ignoring 'formal' CS theory altogether.

Re:Three Letters:

[lskutt]

MBA. You've learned how. Now learn why.

Those three letters are probably a very good idea. However, I would like to suggest that you might want to take it even further.

There is a bad academic proverb that a generalist is somebody who knows nothing about lots of things. Well, I would instead say that a generalist is somebody who is really good at two things or more. There aren't that many of "my" generalists around, but those who are make loads of money and get really fun jobs.

I worked as a software developer for something like 4½-5 years without any education. Taking my own advice, I figured that I should get some kind of degree for something completely different. So I applied for a program for a masters degree in Industrial Engineering and Management (the universities in Sweden have a different approach to the education than you do in the U.S.; in short you study directly towards a masters in engineering).

But then I thought, "now I know the technology, the management and the engineering, but something is missing". So I also started going for a paralell bachelors in Political Science which will hopefully give me the two last pieces of the jigzaw puzzle: society and information.

This kind of education will also cover most of the power bases in our society: Economics, Technology, Politics. Or atleast I hope so.

Re:Three Letters:

[ShieldW0lf]

Actually, while experience is very valuable, I'd rather not hire a programmer that has no college education. Although it is possible to learn everything CS degrees teach without attending actual school, very few people do that. It's just more efficient to learn that as part of a degree -- although you have to learn quite a bit more than what you will eventually need, you never know which parts are things you do NOT need. Without knowing at least something about compiler theory, relational model, discrete maths, data structure basics, algorithms etc., you aren't much of a software developer; no matter how much experience you have doing more trivial programming.

At least in CS it's simple: like they say, simple problems were all solved in 60s (if not 50s). If you do not learn what the great minds learnt/invented/solved (but rather go and solve them by trial and error... or worse, never learn them!), you are just colossaly wasting your time. Either you are ignorant of useful techniques, or you have used awfully lots of time reinventing the wheel.

However, after learning enough (B.Sc, or maybe M.Sc... depends on kinds of things you are working on), I certainly agree one has to go out and use the knowledge. Going for higher degrees without intervening real-world experience is as silly as ignoring 'formal' CS theory altogether.

See, that all sounds good.

But the fact is, once you get into the market, your stupid piece of paper isn't worth shit. It puts you one up on the guy who has neither experience nor education, and that's not enough.

I've got a rinky-dink piece of paper from a school that no longer exists. Took me 8 months to get, wasn't worth shit, wasted a lot of money, haven't used anything that I learned in there since I got out. But not knowing any better, I got it. When I went and got my first job in IT, they didn't even give a shit about my school; nothing I had learned there was relevant. I showed them I was confident, ambitious and willing to learn, and off I went.

Fast forward 5 years. I'm not yet 30, a consultant, make more than my father, do lead development work for fortune 500 companies, and have regularly had to teach ignoramuses with CS degrees how to do their jobs. I have no degree, but I've got a very large bookshelf full of worn texts I've read back to front a dozen times and numerous large, successful projects under my belt. Know where the majority of the people I know with CS degrees work? They're telemarketers for HP.

So you can talk about how "silly" ignoring "formal" CS theory is. Doesn't phase me. Why? Because I've made my career proving you wrong, and I'm not even near my peak.

I'll take my page out of the books of Job and Woz, thanks.

Re:Three Letters:

[boodaman]

School is a waste? That's just wrong.

If you want to work in the same position all your life, then great. Stay out of school, and just get experience.

If, however, you don't want to stay in the same position all your life, go to school. It is a must.

If you have 20 yrs experience in a job (or 5, or 10), all that says about you is that you can do that job. Period. It says nothing about your potential, it says nothing about your willingness (and ability) to extend yourself, it says nothing about what you CAN do or MIGHT do given the chance, it only describes what you've DONE.

I'm speaking firsthand...I used to think like you...who needed college? I've been coding since I was 12 (over 25 yrs). I was writing business apps in COBOL before I could drive a car. And yep, I got some good jobs as a developer and sys-admin. But those were the ONLY jobs I got, and I only got those jobs in small companies (less than 100 people). Why? Because I didn't have a degree.

The year after I went back and completed my degree, I was hired into a Fortune 10 company at a 60% increase in salary, one annual review from management. This is after continually being rejected by that company and similar companies.

What changed? Did I learn a new language? Nope. Get certified in some new technology? Nope. Get another year, or 5, or 10 years of experience? Nope. The ONLY thing that changed was getting my degree.

Does not having a degree mean you can't do a particular job? Probably not. But I can tell you firsthand that without the degree, your options for growth, variety, and additional responsibility are severely limited. The game might suck, but in most cases, you still have to play it, and that means "punching your ticket" at the undergrad level, and eventually the grad level.

School isn't for everyone, and I totally agree that you should have a plan for getting a return on your investment. I know people getting their MBA who have no plan for how having their MBA degree will make a difference in their careers, or what kind of job they will need afterwards to make getting the degree worth it from an expense perspective. I think that's lame. However, I think getting the degree is an excellent idea, provided you have a plan for working it to your advantage.

To the original question: don't get a MBA...in another year, MBAs will be a dime a dozen, like MCSEs. If it were me, I'd specialize: MS in Library Science, or MS in Information Systems, or MS in Technology Management, or MS in Information Assurance, etc.

Re:Three Letters:

[utlemming]

However, this presents an interesting attitude -- those with degrees think they are better and those with out degrees think that they are also as high. Usually those with out a degree are the ones that malaign education. Where I work, there is an interesting relationship. I work as Garden Center Manager, while pursuing my degree in Information Systems. All of my knowledge in plants is that which I have learned on my own and through on the job experience. My knowledge is practical in the area of horticulture. My problem is that I don't have a sufficent framework to understand how some of the products work. Sometimes the formally educated comes to me to ask questions, and sometimes I go to them to ask them questions. From my experience of having learned how to program on my own, and drawing on the experience of having worked with plants, I can see the value an education. I have become a much better programmer learning in a formal structure. The value that I can see is that formal education teaches people how to think the same way and why things are done in a certain way.

I guess the point here is that the formal and informal learning all have value. It seems like those who haven't had a formal education have an inferiority complex, and those who have had a formal education have a superiority complex. A degree in whatever, while merely a piece of paper represents that the person has done something, and learned how to learn. I know that the lessons that I have learned in college are far beyond the classes I have taken. And if I would not trade what I have learned for anything. Sure it would be nice to make a ton of money right now, and to enjoy the perks, the evolution of my character, personality, and knowledge is worth too much to me. When I graduate, it is going to be worth far more than a piece of paper: it will represent a period of my life where I have grown up a whole lot.

Re:Three Letters:

[I_Love_Pocky!]

I've noticed that people without an education generally seem to view education in one of two ways: Either they wish they had more education, or they denounce education as a waste of money/time. All I can say is that the later opinion is rather short sighted, and I think it stems from a desire to prove that they are every bit as good as someone with an education. But what does it mean to be just as good? In the context of programmers, does that just mean that they are just as good at programming? Programming isn't a difficult task, and if that is all some one wants to do in life, then I admit that a CS degree is probably not going to be necessary.

Maybe you can do what someone with a CS degree is supposed to be able to do, but education isn't just about learning marketable skills. I'm just about done with a Masters in Computer Science, and I can certainly tell you that getting the degree was well worth my time. I really feel like I have a much broader understanding of Computer Science now, and that is worth something to me. Maybe it won't make me more marketable (I think it will), but money isn't everything. I love the subject, and I love learning about it.

I recommend a masters degree to anyone who just wants to know more.

Re:Three Letters:

[spectecjr]

Maybe you can do what someone with a CS degree is supposed to be able to do, but education isn't just about learning marketable skills. I'm just about done with a Masters in Computer Science, and I can certainly tell you that getting the degree was well worth my time. I really feel like I have a much broader understanding of Computer Science now, and that is worth something to me. Maybe it won't make me more marketable (I think it will), but money isn't everything. I love the subject, and I love learning about it.

The point is, surely, that a piece of paper is no substitute for skill, talent and passion for the subject matter.

I've got a degree in Physics, and I can hold my own against anyone with a CS degree except when it comes to calculating Big O notation for algorithms. I can do it informally, and back-of-the-envelope it, but I can't formally calculate the speed of an algorithm. I do, however, know what makes a fast algorithm, what makes a slow one, and know to pick the appropriate one for the task at hand.

Re:Three Letters:

[I_Love_Pocky!]

College is a waste overall, but even moreso at the grauate level.

Have you been part of a graduate program? I find it to be rather rewarding. If you haven't experienced it, then I question why you feel that way? If on the other hand, you have been to graduate school, I'd be even more interested in why you feel that it was a waste.

Re:Three Letters:

[I_Love_Pocky!]

I've got a degree in Physics

That is hardly not having an education. If I could recommend any other degree (other than CS) to an aspiring programmer, it would be Physics. It may even be preferable to a CS degree. There is no question that getting a Physics degree shows that you can think (and it helps develop those skills).

The point is, surely, that a piece of paper is no substitute for skill, talent and passion for the subject matter.

Agreed, but my point was that I often hear people who don't have an education attack education as worthless. I really don't see how they could know that.

Re:Three Letters:

[kjs3]

Most people who think MBAs aren't worth the paper their printed on don't understand MBAs, business or where their paycheck comes from and why.

Ken - who is thankful that he's getting an MBA and understands that there is a bigger world out there.

Re:Three Letters:

[zerocool^]

To the original question: don't get a MBA...in another year, MBAs will be a dime a dozen, like MCSEs.

See, I'm starting to wonder about that statement.

I've worked at a computer build / network design / installation / repair shop now for 8 months. We're a midsized "small company" (~25 employees). We do enterprise level work, we're a microsoft certified partner, intel channel partner, GSA-scheduled, yada yada yada. All of our instore techs have to be A+, and onsite techs have to be MCP. And yet, no one in our store has an MCSE. My boss is only one test away, and we have another tech who is two tests away.

I know a lot of people in the area that do the things that an MCSE is supposed to signify knowledge of, and none of them have an MCSE. I also see lots of jobs with Defense contractors and the Gub'ment where an MSCE is the difference between $45,000/yr and $70,000/yr.

The only person I personally know with an MCSE is my father in law, who works for Unisys.

MCSE requires knowledge of the operating systems and prep to pass the tests, of which there are 7 required (at $125 a pop, not counting study materials). You have to take 4 networking design/implementation tests, a client OS test, a specific test dealing with designing active directory or security, and an elective test.

Just pointing out that, while bashing microsoft is as cool as ever, the MCSE cert is 1.) not easy, and 2.) still valuable.

Do you have an MCSE? I'd imagine that a good number of people on slashdot do have one. If not, could you pass 70-294 ("Planning, Implementing, and Maintaining a Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Active Directory Infrastructure")?

~Will

Re:Three Letters:

[Registered Coward v2]

"Who the hell is Harvey Mudd and whats so special about Irvine?"


Harcort's brother.

Re:Three Letters:

[eno2001]

Actually, that was poorly worded, but I was in a hurry. The wife and kid were coming down the stairs for family time. ;P

What I meant is that it depends on this guy's goals. If he wants to arm himself with knowledge, then staying in academia is the way to go with the caveat that things are very different in the real world because you're usually not working with people who went to graduate school. If the guy just wants to get into a great job, he'd be better off leaving school and just pounding the streets trying to hustle his current knowledge, gaining experience by taking side jobs, etc... and trying to keep up with technology trends on his own. Again... higher education is usually the wrong place to learn technology since you don't usually experience the stupid limitations that the "real world" enforces you within an academic setting.

Working in a Cisco networking lab, Linux/Unix lab or AD domain in a college setting is nothing like working on the real thing. The real thing is usually quite lackluster and poorly implemented. It's just that the corporates don't realize how poor the skills of their employees are or they don't care. They make the mistake of assuming that if their main business isn't IT, they shouldn't put much stock in it.

Re:Three Letters:

[LnxAddct]

Err... My university required me to take just about all those courses that you mentioned, not too mention a hell of alot more math courses, tons of physics from newtonian and quantum, to astrophyics, not to mention chemistry and biology all with labs. Don't underestimate a CS degree, just underestimate the school. The requirements for anything vary greatly from school to school, I just happened to choose one that challenged me, but taught me more then ever imaginable.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Three Letters:

[sparklehackery]

I'll take my page out of the books of Job and Woz, thanks.

Job I know of. Where's Woz in the Bible?

Re:Three Letters:

[KidAnalog]

I agree that there are some important things learned in school. However, when It comes to hireing a programmer I rather get someone with 5 years work experience and no education then some kid fresh out of university. There is more things a person learns from experience then from going to university. Although, univeristy can be a fun party, it is nothing compared to a real world few projects under your belt.

I just recently hired a compsci PHD, don't get me wrong he's a really smart man, but it sure does take him long to solve threading issues. not to mention he's the lowest paid programmer on the team.

Respectivly, there is a programmer on my team that is self taught and has 4 years experience in the industry. He has build hundred's of multi threaded applications and can spot a race condition in seconds.

If you do not learn what the great minds learnt/invented/solved
You don't to go to school to learn what has been solved in the past you just need to order a book.

oh yeah, Knowing how to read helps too.

Re:Three Letters:

[RWerp]

I've noticed that people without an education generally seem to view education in one of two ways: Either they wish they had more education, or they denounce education as a waste of money/time.

Simple: sour grapes.

Re:Three Letters:

[pzs]

I've got a PhD in CS and have been postdoc-ing 2 1/2 years. I'm currently looking for new work.

I got a call from a recruitment agent about a Python job. I have quite a lot of Python experience since my PhD code was all in Python and I've used it for all kinds of jobs from databases to my mp3 jukebox. However, when I started telling him about this he said that only *commercial* programming experience made any difference. He said, and I quote, "The fact that you could do this job with your eyes shut is neither here nor there, the people who employ you will need to justify their decision and they will do that with commercial experience".

This obviously means that a Geography graduate with 2 years working for a crappy IT consultancy has more effective programming experience than me, even though I've been programming for more than 10 years.

I'm not saying that this agent is typical, but nevertheless I think that as long as you have the minimum (probably a degree), quite a few employers don't give a rusty f*** about how much more education you have.

Peter

Re:Three Letters:

[I_Love_Pocky!]

I've never had any formal training but I can guarantee that my understand of CS is broader than yours.

Probably.

What is Computer Science? I'm curious to hear how a self-taught individual answers that question.

Education isn't something you go into a special building to do.

No, it's something you can go into a special building to do. A lot of people have responded to me claiming that they didn't learn anything getting their BS in Computer Science. I have a hard time believing this. I imagine they went to school to become programmers, and were disappointed to find out that Computer Science has very little to do with programming. These are the folks who really did waste their time (if they can't see how all of the other stuff they were "forced" to learn broadens their experience). If they wanted to be taught programming in a structured setting (Personally I'd prefer a book), they should have gone to a tech school.

Re:Three Letters:

[cheetr]

I've got a rinky-dink piece of paper from a school that no longer exists. Took me 8 months to get, wasn't worth shit, wasted a lot of money, haven't used anything that I learned in there since I got out.

All I can say is choose your schools/programs better. Some off the wall certification in using windows or some crap from "Computer School Incorporated" is not even close to what real education is. On the other hand, you only learn by teaching yourself. Programs and Professors are only facilitators.

best degree to compliment comp sci

[dmf415]

While at high school I was aware that there were many different areas of computing, but what made me focus on a degree combining both computer science and electronic engineering was how well they compliment each other. When applying for a place at university, La Trobe courses were listed as my top 4 preferences. I was and still am very impressed with the quality of the course, industry collaboration, the focus on industry-accredited projects, the lifestyle and environment.
One of the most important aspects of my undergraduate course was that it focused on making people more employable by providing many opportunities to develop communication, research, practical and team working skills.
I completed my undergraduate course last year and immediately found employment as a graduate engineer with Vision Systems Limited. While working for Vision Systems, I decided to pursue a postgraduate qualification by research at La Trobe. Because of La Trobe's commitment to encouraging industry collaboration and research, I was able to arrange to undertake a research topic that was of interest to my employer. Thus, currently I am doing my Master of Engineering by research, while working part time as an engineer. La Trobe is flexible enough to allow me to develop both academically and professionally.

Re:best degree to compliment comp sci

[maysonl]

and incompetent marketing at that - he didn't even post a link!

I can think of a few...

[Jhon]

A Business degree. After your 40th birthday, you may find it difficult to find new employment if the need arrises. If you've got a business degree and have moved in to managment, you'll probably find it easier. The pay will be better, too.

A Mathematics degree "plays" nicely with a CS degree, too.

Re:I can think of a few...

[The Amazing Fish Boy]

A Business degree

I second that.

Not to mention, when you get a business degree, you will be able to more easily understand why management does as they do, and get along better with your managers. Then you're likely to get promoted in-house, in which case your "underlings" will know you as a programmer and you'll likely get respect. You'll also be able to understand them, and make informed decisions. A bridge between management and IT. Just don't try to micromanage.

Of course, that's in-house. Getting a different job would be easier, too.

Another thing is your health. It may not be a good idea for health reasons to program all day long into your sixties. Just a thought.

Re:I can think of a few...

[over_exposed]

Agreed. Also math, physics, EE, bio, chem... Any of the "big sciences" all tie in nicely with CS. It depends on what your interests are. Pair it with something you enjoy so that classes won't feel like a waste of time and any job resulting won't bore you to tears. None of these sciences would have made it to where they are now without computer technology and they'll openly admit it.

Re:I can think of a few...

[nite_warrior]

Not only those. The best thing I find about comp sci is that it can be nicely combined with pretty much everything from the "big sciences" to arts or any other thing.

Hindi

[lecithin]

I don't know about a degree, but I would recommend taking Hindi.

Re:Hindi

[Anonymous Coward]

Possibly a good minor with the oft suggested MBA.

Re:Hindi

[cj79]

Based on some of the IT people I have worked with, taking some English courses and being able to actually compose a readable email could go a long way.

Interpretive Dance

[Gilmoure]

Entertain your users.

Re:Interpretive Dance

[Lemmy Caution]

"I call this next piece, 'Scope Drift.'"

The choreography consists of taking the original requirements, ripping them to shreds, and running around screaming as you throw them into the air like confetti.

Re:Interpretive Dance

[DavidYaw]

"I call this next piece, 'Scope Drift.'"

The choreography consists of taking the original requirements, ripping them to shreds, and running around screaming as you throw them into the air like confetti.

Wow! I thought I was just frustrated, but it turns out I've been doing interpretive dance for years and didn't know it!

Biochemistry

[dso]

I would have to say the Biochemistry is your best bet. That whole area of research is becoming dependent of computer technology. Datamining is a large part of genetic research along with molecular modeling (proteins) and distributed computer systems. Also, take a look at SGI (www.sgi.com) and see what they are doing. Their core business is focusing on areas where computers and science converge.

Re:Biochemistry

[BWJones]

It really depends upon what he wants to do. A Masters or doctorate in bioinformatics combined with a bachelors in CS will get you a job very quickly and would be a much better choice than biochemistry if he really wanted to do that kind of work. Look at any one of these programs for bioinformatics training.

Chemistry, economics, business, biology, genetics, physics, computer science, neuroscience are all fields that could use folks with some training in computer science to help with modeling and other problems related to their work.

SGI is one possibility, but most folks doing this sort of work are looking at more inexpensive hardware and building clusters of commodity hardware to do their work. Also Apple's Xserves are proving to be quite cost effective and screaming performers for genetics work.

Re:Biochemistry

[monkeyserver.com]

I was looking into this a little while ago. The big thing that people are REALLY looking for here is some one with a PHD in BIO or MED type field, with CS abilities. I mean, I'm sure you could find something, and I'm sure they really need people who actually know how to properly code, but most of the postings I saw were more shortsided and seemed to want a person who was in their field already, but could hack some code together.

Best thing to pair with a degree in Comp. Sci?

[DataPath]

Experience. Nothing even compares.

Re:Best thing to pair with a degree in Comp. Sci?

[jd]

Oh, definitely. Especially broad experience. Specialists are paid the best but are only needed until the PHB's mood shifts. A generalist gets less to start with, but is needed forever and therefore gains stability and respect. Too generalized, though, and you'll start way too low to get anywhere.

After experience, membership of a professional society (eg: IEEE, or whatever) is better than most certifications, costs less, and is more exclusive.

Certifications are third on the list. They're OK but most people have them and they're not really as good as they're supposed to be. If you do go for a cert, go ONLY for the top ones. The vast majority are just a waste of money.

Depends..

[ackthpt]

What area would you like to employ your Computer Science skillz in? It's actually a great companion degree for Business, Bio-Sciences, Engineering, etc. as it give you greater insight into how you may either create tools to aide your work or be well informed when selecting vendors. This of course assumes you don't just want to be a code or systems jockey.

I find even discussions with a friend in a branch of advertising is hardly served by some of the applications available to him and after an hour talking about what he does and, seeing what he really needs to get through a day, could probably whip together something simple that would do it, rather than the garbage in MS Office he has to wrestle with.

Consider the pros of taking a respectable understanding of technology into a career in law or politics, even.

.. all base of the party of the first part will become property of the party of the second part ..

Mathematics

[jnapalm]

Most pairable degree with Computer Science: Mathematics. Affinity for math tells employers you're capable of high level, abstract thought.

Re:Mathematics

[Tablizer]

Most pairable degree with Computer Science: Mathematics. Affinity for math tells employers you're capable of high level, abstract thought.

On the flip side it may also say, "This guy has no business and people skills". Get a Communications or Business degree. Raw brains are a cheap commodity on the global market.

Re:Mathematics

[scovetta]

Most pairable degree with Computer Science: Mathematics. Affinity for math tells employers you're capable of high level, abstract thought. I agree-- I've got a dual BS (comp sci/math), and then a masters in comp sci. It's good if you want to stay technical for a while. If you're intent is to manage, you might as well go for an MBA or a communications degree. I've heard from people in similar positions that MBA programs are a joke compared to the hardcore science classes (but I'm sure some /.ers will mod me down for that.

Re:Mathematics

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

I'm doing fine writing code with my Mathematics PhD (>$200,000 salary last few years (dropped a bit this year - working on fixing it)). So did Sergey Brin. Most people I know who studied mathematics just forgot it all when they finished their course. Some people (like Brin) have the sense to actually use it to solve difficult problems that non-mathematicians can't solve. Mathematics isn't just for entertainment value, some of it can actually be applied in the real world.

Re:Mathematics

[Coryoth]

On the flip side it may also say, "This guy has no business and people skills". Get a Communications or Business degree. Raw brains are a cheap commodity on the global market.

You can demonstrate communication and people skills when you show up for the interview. A piece of paper saying you have them hardly helps. On the other hand proving that you are adept at abstract and logical thought and a sound grounding in advanced mathematics: Not quite so easy to demonstrate at an interview; you might want a piece of paper for that one.

Really folks, people and communication skills are something you mostly either have or don't. If you aren't much of a people person taking a course in Business isn't going to turn you into one. If you are incapable of actually forming your thoughts into something you can communicate to others - well, maybe you should be taking some remedial English courses.

Jedidiah.

Easy

[BoomerSooner]

MBA. You're exactly who it was invented for, not the alreay have a BBA and don't want to get a job types that I see in business school. Or you could go EE which is a good pairing as well, I have friends who did that and have done very well for themselves.

Finishing school...

[aquarian]

...where you can learn manners, grooming, and human interaction.

Depends...

[nozomiyume]

I would think it would depend on what parts of CS appeal to you - for example, a degree in Math tends to be a good augmentation to a CS degree if you were going into Data Analysis, or databases. But if you were writing a physics engine, a Physics degree would be useful. Generally, I would say that a Math or Business degree would be a good augmentation.

Depends on where you wanna go...

[ABaumann]

You could go with another science degree: Physics, Biology, Chemistry, or Math and work at a national lab.

If you don't actually like programming and you want to be a project lead, go with the MBA.

If you want to go towards hardware development, maybe linguistics would be a good area of study.

Thank Goodness

[DanielMarkham]

This wasn't another one of those posts where you had to read some long article and make comments. This is one of those "Do you like ice cream?" questions.

Go for the business degree, kid. Whatever you do in this world, there will always be a business manager over you (or working for you)

And yes, I do like ice cream.

A Language

[Oen_Seneg]

Not stricly a degree, but learn a real language (French/German/Japanese) and you can actually get some quite interesting jobs. Worst case scenario, you'd be translating software or giving foreign language tech support, but employers quite like people with language skills for some unknown reason.

Re:A Language

[Neo-Rio-101]

employers quite like people with language skills for some unknown reason.

They like us because we not only know computer languages, but human languages as well. It shows you also have social skills and the ability to understand people from otherwise completely different ways of thinking. The ability to communicate effectively with other people is important in tricky situations with users, and when working as a sysadmin in a team of engineers as well.

Actually I work in a Japanese research institute which has a lot of foreign researchers, so they need me to make all the bilingual "System maintenance" notice emails.... and to politely deal with foreign researchers when they have problems, and when they've been naughty and tried to use BitTorrent on our network.

Re:A Language

[PakProtector]

Nien! Iie! Baka! Leib, Mien Leib! You let the damn secret out of the bag! Computer Science ga oshiete kureta ka... ne

What's your ultimate goal?

[delcielo]

If you're looking at eventually rising through the ranks into management and executive positions, an MBA would be a good idea.

If you want to be a tech for the long haul, perhaps a degree in mathematics.

Whatever you do, remember also that communication skills are important. You're not typically taught them in college (at least not very well); but your advancement will to some degree depend on them.

Art...?

[RootsLINUX]

Well if programming is what you love and what you want to do for the rest of your life, why not focus on getting a degree in artwork? Sure we can all write hard-core programs and scripts that run from a command line, but what about our less-enlightened users who require a GUI and colorful buttons to do anything with their computer? To those users, appearance is VERY important, maybe even moreso than performance to some people. I wish I had time to focus on developing my art skills right now for personal reasons/projects, but I'm too busy writing esoteric Perl scripts...>_>

Law

[ajakk]

With a Comp Sci. degree and a Law degree, you can become a patent lawyer and make tons of cash (and be a pariah among nerds).

Re:Law

[Macadamizer]

"This is bullshit. First off, you don't need to pass the patent bar to be considered a patent attorney."

You need to have passed the patent bar in order to hold yourself out as a "patent attorney." You don't need to have passed the patent bar to litigate patent infringement case, or to even write and prosecute patents (as long as you are work under the direction of someone who HAS passed the patent bar), but you can't use the title "patent attorney" unless you have both been admitted to a state bar in any state AND have been admitted to the patent bar.

MARKETING!!!

[gonar]

then you'd be EVERY engineer's worst nightmare, a marketroid with an engineering degree but no engineering experience!

seriously. work in the industry for 5 years, then go back to school, experience is more valuable than any piece of paper.

Indeed

[dsginter]

Carly had a Bachelors in medieval history but was able to become the CEO of a once impressive company because of her MBA. Not that she was any good at it but she did get a hefty severance package.

Re:Indeed

[AmigaAvenger]

i just spent a couple months on an interview committee for a MS systems admin. we had one saying, skills can be taught, soft skills can't. If you give a good interview and conduct yourself well, demonstrating excellent intrapersonal skills, it will go a LONG ways to cover any inadequicies in your computer skills.

Re:Indeed

[provolt]

You can generally teach people to become acceptable coders. You generally can't teach people communication skills.

A project team with a dozen acceptable coders who can communicate well will outperform a project with a dozen brilliant coders who can't communicate and can't work in teams.

Re:Indeed

[provolt]

I would absolutely agree with the need for balance. However, I think finding someone with acceptable coding skills is an easier task than finding someone with acceptable communication skills.

Re:Indeed

[sanshovel]

Carly held more than a bachelor's degree in medieval history. She has a bachelor's degree in medieval history and philosophy, an MBA, and a masters in science. Not to stick up for her...but the facts need to be straight.

Psychology.

[k96822]

Psychology. Don't laugh, my Psychology minor has been extremely useful, particularly the classes that dealt with cognitive Psychology, which is directly applicable to human-computer interfaces. I intend to turn that into a full Bachelor's someday.

seriously

[MagicM]

1) Get a degree in a field that interests you.

2) Don't Get a degree to increase your "marketability", unless it increases your "marketability" in a field that you would want a job in. In which case, see (1).

Re:seriously

[Joe the Lesser]

I agree. Stop powergaming your career. Study what you like, and let opportunities come to you. If you're serious and professional minded, someone will find you whatever path you choose, and if you want the highest salary, then you won't be happy regardless.

Re:seriously

[nine-times]

This is by far the best answer in this thread. Perhaps it's the only good answer I've read. I've talked to a couple 19 year olds recently who've asked me what they should major in if they want to get a good job. Like there's a "right answer". Kids starting out always want to know how to get "a good job"-- just abstractly, "a good job". As in, you take specific classes, get "a good job", and live happily ever after.

If you're thinking about going back to school, just look into a lot of different subjects, and when you find something that you're really interested in, and the idea of taking classes on that subject is sort of exciting, take some classes in that.

If your real concern is that you're looking for is a token degree to give your resume a superficial bump, than it sounds like the job you're well-suited for is that of a PHB, in which case go ahead and get your MBA. You'll learn all the market-speak necessary to synergize best-business-practices in order to get the greatest possible ROI.

Otherwise, take some interesting classes and see where it leads you.

For me one choice

[The Mutant]

A Masters degree in Quantitative Finance.

YMMV. Pick a degree that compliments what you are interested in. Not what the consensus on /. suggests.

After all, you're gonna be the one stuck with the job that it leads you to. The degree could be a marketing MBA, or in Biochemistry or Astronomy, etc, etc.

But you've gotta be happy with it.

What do you like to do?

[Gil-galad55]

It all depends on where you want to go with your career. If you really enjoy computer science, I'd recommend a maths degree, as this will take you a long way with theoretical computer science. That having been said, a PhD in compsci would probably be even better.

I myself have CS and physics bachelors, but my primary aim is at physics. I found the compsci degree helpful when I was doing work in particle physics, as I was writing tons of analytical code. Also, if you planned on doing development for government labs, an ability to create accurate models is a good thing, and physics will help with that.

Management, obviously MBA. I'd also consider a humanities (particularly English) degree; we always complain about the plight of the illiterate programmer/engineer/scientist. Well-spoken and clear-writing employees look good and go a long way. 3-4 years is a major commitment to polish up your writing, though! That having been said, I find I need the humanities to stay sane, so it's probably time well spent...

J.D. Patent Lawyer

[darkmeridian]

If you can get into a top ten law school, then you can become a patent lawyer and make a few hundred thousand dollars right out of school. Big firms pay $125K base (not counting bonuses) for patent attorneys from top ten schools--no legal experience (aside from law school) necessary.

Re:J.D. Patent Lawyer

[EZmagz]

That's a big IF, mi amigo. Getting into a top-10 law school is very, very hard. Even top-25 is more selective that most can deal with.

Besides, most CS grads would make horrible lawyers in general for one significant reason: they have horrible communication skills. Lawyers have to be intelligent and very analytical (a trait many with CS degrees have), but also be able to effectively communicate ideas with others (a trait very few CS holders have in my experience).

Keep in mind this is coming from someone who has a CS degree from undergrad, and a few of my friends (and one of my siblings) have attended the top law schools in the US. Let me tell you this, you'd be hard-pressed to find a group of more rabid alphas that people in competitive law schools. And somehow "CS geek" and "rabid alpha male/female" rarely refer to the same person.

Re:J.D. Patent Lawyer

[Dread_ed]

Why not just get a law degree, and if you don't get completely corrupted by the whole lawyer indoctrination thing, join the EFF and make a difference.

Want more money?

Work for a law firm helping them understand the implications of the new and interesting laws that are being developed and implimented daily with regard to technology, IT, and net-rights, and then use them to exploit the people for profit of the companies that paid through the nose for said legislation.

OR, if you have a convincing smile and a good speaking voice you could become a politician and help dismantle some of the totally fucked up laws we have that are constraining business and technological progress in our wonderful country.

OR, if you want even more money:

And you have a soul as black as the void between stars I am sure that the business interests that are helped, nay DEPENDENT, on fucked up legislation would be happy to offer you seven or eight figures to help pass their next big monopoly inducing law. (insert step 3 here)

Go get some experience.

[nvrrobx]

I'd reccommend getting some experience to increase your marketability as opposed to another degree.

I know when I interview possible engineer candidates, I'm looking more for experience than education.

What are you wanting to do? Your write up was very vague.

What are you interested in?

[Shadow Wrought]

I think the more important question is, what else are you interested in? If all you are looking for is resume padding, then another Bachelor's is a pretty expensive way to go. Indeed you would likely be better off with an MBA (which, based solely on the few MBA's I've met, is little more than resume window dressing anyway).

On the other hand, if there are areas of learning which you really would like to know more about (be it History, Physics, English Lit, etc) then get a degree in that. It will be far more interesting for you and will make you a much more interesting candidate.

But that's just my $.02...

No need for another degree...

[Psiren]

While I respect you for wanting to further your education, I would argue obtaining another degree is the wrong way to do it. It's been said a million times, but there really is absolutely no substitute for experience, and 3 years of it is worth far more than another piece of paper. Knowing the theory, and being able to put it to use in real life situations are two different things. I suspect you already know this as you obtained your degree two years ago, and hopefully have been employed for at least some of that time.

Unless of course you are looking to learn something totally unrelated to Computer Science in order to provide an additional route for employment. If that's the case, only you can make that choice, and asking people here is silly. If you're not interested in the subject, you're highly unlikey to be motivated enough to do the best you can at it.

Find Something You Like

[SilicaiMan]

Every person is different, so what individual X did may not necessarily fit individual Y.

My advice is to find something you like. You're still young. Take your time and look around and find an area you really really want to pursue and go for it. Don't listen to what others say. If you're happy doing your job, you will excel in it, no matter what the nature of the job is. Only then can you make a difference.

Going for an MBA just for the sake of getting a higher salary is plain stupid, IMHO. Unless you really really want to manage, then don't do it. Else, you will be one among thousands in your shoes. You can't stand out of a crowd unless you believe in and enjoy what you do.

Depends

[Stargoat]

Depends if it is for personal use, or if it is for business. History will teach you to write intelligently, and to think with a broader scope. A second language will prepare you for what could prove to be a more interesting career. An MBA will make you more hireable.

Personally, if you have unlimited time and funds, I recommend a law degree. Fight the good fight against the SCO. What's more, there will be a deluge of criminal computer cases over the next decade. You would be in a perfect situation to take advantage of this.

JD

[theMerovingian]

I'm going to go to law school starting in August. You can work in the field of high-tech law, intellectual property, and patents... I personally am more interested in the software business than I am in writing code, so take that with a grain of salt.

And, you can also diversify into numerous other legal specializations if you get bored or need a change of pace.

The average starting salary varies wildly depending on the type of entity you work for and your geographic location. But, it is my suspicion that you could pretty readily get a decent management job at a software company with 1) technical experience; 2) a BS in CS; and 3) a JD.

There's always the option of going into private practice, or you could work for the FBI/CIA/NSA if you have a penchant for government work (and a clean background).

There's lots more to say on the subject of techno-lawyers, so I'm interested to see what else people have to say Re: law school.

Re:JD

[jkiryako]

I've worked as a software engineer for 15 years. I'm now headed back to law school to become a patent/ip lawyer. It's a great (and lucrative) way to capitalize on your technical background.

Re:JD

[talenos]

I just got accepted to Santa Clara Law school and plan on doing IP stuff because of my Cpr E BS. It's a good option if you don't want to program for a living, but still love to be around the technology.

Re:JD

[cfulmer]

As a 2d year law student with a long engineering background, I think I have some input here...

(1) Patent lawyers are occasionally referred to as the "Dermatologists of the legal profession" -- they work semi-normal hours and get paid well.

(2) Patent is also hard to branch back out of if you don't like it -- you tend to pigeonhole yourself.

(3) Don't make your decision based on salary -- better to be poor and happy than rich and miserable. Also, while lawyers coming out of the top 12 or so law schools will typically start at $125-135/yr, those salary figures drop dramatically in the next tier. You don't want to rack on a bunch of debt only to find out that you're working more hours but making about what you were before.

I don't think that a JD would give you any help in management -- the only management skill you learn in law school is time management.

On the other hand, lawyers are the grease of the economy -- nothing much happens without them. When things go well, you need lawyers. And, when things go poorly, you need lawyers. Not too many legal jobs being outsourced to Bangalore.

Re:JD

[Chibi]

On the other hand, lawyers are the grease of the economy -- nothing much happens without them. When things go well, you need lawyers. And, when things go poorly, you need lawyers. Not too many legal jobs being outsourced to Bangalore.

I was going to mod you up until I got to the last line of your comment. Legal work is actually starting to get outsourced in this country (the US, since this is a US site, blah, blah...):

http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/14/news/economy/lawye r_outsourcing/?cnn=yes

A number of U.S. companies, including members of the Fortune 500 and some of the country's largest law firms, are now embracing the idea of outsourcing routine legal work to India, South Korea, Australia and other locales with far lower labor costs.

The article mentions that lawyers have more protections for them than the average tech worker (unions, anyone?), but there is still some outsourcing happening in this area. Whether this picks up steam or not, we'll have to wait and see...

Not a Master's

[khendron]

You are right about a Master's.

In all my experience I have yet to meet anybody who feels their Master's degrees helped them in their job.

This includes MBAs, which I find quite surprising. But I have never met an MBA who thinks her or his MBA helped them get and do the job. I do know one person who thinks her MBA helped her find a husband :-)

I have a Master's degree myself. I had a blast getting it. I'd do it again. But for job advancement it is worth less than nothing.

Do you really need a second major?

[Glorfindel]

Maybe another major isn't the answer. I took Math as a second major and it ended up sucking up alot of my free time in college with little benefit in return (in terms of marketability). Now maybe that just means that Math is definitely not a good choice , but I'd say one major is enough. Enjoy your time in college before you have to head out into the real world rather than breaking yourself in a second major. Otherwise, you might just find that you're burnt out on both subjects before you get a chance to apply any of your new found skills in the real world.

If you must take a second major, I'd suggest something to round out a liberal arts education such as History or English. And who knows, the fact that you have a well-rounded education may just give you the edge over others in the job market.

Ooh that why !

[MPHellwig]

Surely explains her medieval management style.

Kung-Fu

[TiggertheMad]

Learn Kung-Fu. It lets you fight off agent Smith, and you can avenger your master after he is slain by ninjas. Plus, I have yet to see someon who holds a MBA or Math degree with those cool Shaolin dragon and lion brands on their wrists.

What do you want to be when you grow up?

[winkydink]

That's what you should get a master's in. At this point in your career, I would offer to you that relevant experience in your field is going to do more to increase your marketability much more than a master's.

Economics

[Dr. Transparent]

An MBA isn't a *bad* idea, but personally I think that in economics you learn more of the why of general business principles than your mba counterparts.

I would say the biggest caveat is that economics programs really depend on the professors. Spending 1 or 2 years in an econ program with cruddy profs will be rather painful.

The biggest gain with an econ background (or even MBA or the other general business degress people are throwing around here) is that you can make decisions in your programmer box that will positively affect the business as a whole. Too many programmers are idealogues with no sense of why implementing feature X is a bad idea when it will cost Y but only increase sales by Y - $20,000. The ability to make suggestions about how development can better help the business as a whole will make you more valuable, and probably make for a better working environment.

Write Right

[cratermoon]

Based on the usual sort of writing I see in /. comments, I'd suggest an English degree.

Be prepared for a deluge of opinion...

[Pollux]

Which degree(s) do YOU think will go well with a Computer Science Bachelors?

When I read this, my first response would be to pit the question on the submitter. Why ask ./? We don't know who you are, your personality, or what you really want to do with your life five years down the road. Sure, you ask what would be helpful to increase your marketability, but marketability in what? My field is education, and I double majored in CS and Math Ed. An Ed degree would be great for any company looking for communication and management skills, but it won't get you very far if you're looking for marketability for anything to do with, say, software engineering.

I don't know if ./ will be able to help you with this type of personal decision. I've already seen a few friends drop out of college at some point because the only advice they followed was everybody elses, never their own.

Sure, you can get as much advice as you can take on what might "look good" on a resume, but I also knew a few classmates who tried for a minor that they thought would give them a one-up. In the end, they didn't like what they were studying, were too mentally exhausted to try harder, and just detested the class material so much that they then detested the work that came with it. And no employer's going to want to hire someone who isn't motivated to do their job, that's for sure.

Figure out what you would really like to do first. If you don't know, try out market yourself with what you have. If you then find something that you'd really like to go for but don't have what the education / experience, THEN you'll find the motivation to take more classes, and you'll know what you need to take.

Human factors, UI design and evaluation

[dduck]

It has worked very well for me. There is a renewed interest in devices that work well both technically and UI-wise, but very few people are trained in both diciplines. You will be /in/ the interface... a good place to be, if you want to have real influence on the final product.

Oh, and it's also a good starting point for striking out on your own as an innovator.

What about law?

[OldSchoolNapster]

Ive been considering persuing a law degree after I finish CS for some time now. I'll probably choose to work assuming I'm able to find a job but I was wondering how other people with CS degrees enjoyed law school and what opportunities it has opened up.

Re:What about law?

[richieb]

At a Linux user's group meeting, maybe two or three years ago, we had a lawyer talk about IP, patents etc. He said that there are law firms paying premium ($50K startup bonus), for lawyers with technical degrees.

Re:What about law?

[elysian1]

I'm currently a first year law student. I majored in applied mathematics with a computer science emphasis. I have about 2 years of programming experience. I really enjoy law school and would love to someday work as in-house counsel at a software company. However, I really like the law and I don't necessarily have to end up doing something with software. My degree does not allow me to sit on the patent bar (I need 2 more semesters of physics). However, if your degree is actually CS, you can sit for the patent bar and become a patent lawyer. Patent lawyers, especially in CS and EE, are in HIGH demand. Finding a job after law school is very competitive but if you're a CS or EE major, you can find a job relatively easy, as long as you don't completely bomb law school. The pay is usually very high, starting about $125k-$135k right out of law school with bonuses from $10-30k. I've noticed some of my friends with EE degrees are able to get interviews with not as good grades much easier than those without an EE degree. Anyways, I don't think law school is nearly as difficult as math or CS, but the workload is extreme. I had to get used to doing tons of reading in a relatively short period of time and legal writing. I believe English majors have a pretty good advantage in law school, or any other major that requires lots of reading and writing. However, math and CS skills such as logical and analytical thinking do help out a ton. Enough rambling. If you're interested in law school, get started with learning how to take the LSAT. It's very "learnable," and having a CS background will help in the logic games section.

consider an mba, BUT...

[CousinLarry]

...think about a business degree, but make sure you actually LIKE business and not just the idea of earning more (talk to friends that work in investment banks and the like).

If you haven't had any experience in business you may find that the people who gravitate towards "big business" are *not* like your engineering school buddies, usually. Often people in business have very different outlooks on the world and work than engineers.

No Kannada (was Hindi)

[Lulu of the Lotus-Ea]

Hindi is not the principle language of Karnakata, the state where Bangalore is located; Kannada is its official and largest language. Of course, in practice, tech workers in Bangalore come from different regions of India--or indeed, the world--so probably English is even more common in technical workplaces.

Re:No Kannada (was Hindi)

[spamspamspamspam]

I work for the Australian arm of a very large Indian IT company and I can confirm that English is by far the most common language used in IT outsourcing companies. Remember that English is an official language of India.

I wonder how successful Indian outsourcing would have been had the English had not set up a colony and left their language there.

No magic silver bullet degree

[wintermute42]

There is no magic degree bullet. I went to school with a lot of pre-meds (my undergrad degree is in biology). A number of the premeds wanted to go into medicine because they thought that the degree would be the magic carpet to a high income and job security.

As it turned out, things were not so simple. HMOs put pressure on doctor's fees and medicine is a field where there is more burnout than people want to admit. For people who are not good at relationships with other people (most of the premeds I knew) seeing people for the same kind of thing year after year becomes a huge bore. By the time they hit their forties some doctors would like to do something else, but it is too late to easily change professions and they are used to making a lot of money.

Since there is no degree that I know of that will guarantee a good income, job security AND interesting work, you might was well go for a degree in something that interests you and might improve your job prospects.

If I were to get another degree I'd get a degree in quantitative finance. That is, the application of mathematical techniques to financial modeling and trading of stocks, bonds, foreign exchange and so on. Having a solid software background and the ability to handle the math is a big asset. Of course for some of us the downside is that you may have to live in or around New York city (but this is a feature for other people).

I'll second that

[vlad_petric]

While not directly saying it, what most employers appreciate is the ability to deliver. Best way to achieve this in college? An opensource project.

Get your career diploma NOW!

[mb12036]

From Devry Institute of Technology. You can specialize in:

Medical CLaims Processing
Paralegal
Medical Transcription
Refridgerator Repair
Bookkeeping

Or get your high school diploma!!!

English!

[saintp]

Seriously. You'll stand out among a bunch of other CS weenies who probably barely even speak the language -- not to mention all of the H-1 visa holders. (Ever read /.? Case in point.) An English degree tells potential employers that you can a) communicate effectively, and b) research thoroughly; both are highly valued by the people who do the hiring. You'll be much more appealing than the hordes of MBA grads, whose major marketable skill is that they can say "ROI" a lot.

If English doesn't appeal to you, any degree in the humanities will look great, since most require language and research skills, and present you as a well-rounded renaissance person, not a single-minded code zombie. (Read: as someone who makes decisions, not as someone who is subject to them.) History is also particularly good.

Remember: CS majors stereotypically are introverted nerds who can't communicate with anyone who doesn't speak LISP. CS majors with MBAs are stereotypically suit-wearing nerd-wannabes who can't communicate with anyone who doesn't speak Marketroid. Anything you can do to prove that you're not either of those will help a lot.

Re:English!

[wintermute1000]

A caution, though; as a woman who lists a few writing prizes on her resume alongside her math and computer science degrees-in-progress, I have found that a least one interviewer I spoke to tried to pigeonhole me as a technical writer. Now, I'm good at writing, but I'm not in CS to be a goddamn technical writer and the fact that I've got CS research and hardcore electronics jobs on my resume can attest to that. I don't know if this is just because the guy who interviewed me was more comfortable thinking of me as a girl writer than as a girl coder or what, but it can definitely be dangerous.

So, maybe it's just a girl thing, and maybe it isn't, but if you've got anything remotely fuzzy on your resume, people might try to steer you away from coding and into something more customer or documentation oriented. If that isn't your sup of tea, think twice.

The passion

[charvolant]

Only do a postgraduate degree if you have a passion for the subject matter. If you do have that passion, you'll have a great time, a really interesting life and meet lots of clever, deranged and interesting people.

You will also never be rich -- unless you are extremely lucky.

But that is a judgement call on your part. It is, however, worth remembering that "quality of life" and "standard of living" are not equivalent.

Tough one

[Proc6]

The obvious ones come to mind, "invisibility", "telekenisis" and "flight". While "superhuman strength" might have some use, it will likely be less so in the future as computers get smaller and lighter. You might also look into "shape shifting" and "teleportation", the latter being helpful if your employment requires long commutes.

Mechanical Engineering

[RPI Geek]

I'd say that your second degree should really reflect your interests. If you're looking to do something that you have a passion for, and you don't care about the marketability, just study something that you love. If you're looking for marketability alone, get a business degree. If you're trying to break into a certain field, study the area most closely related to it.

I'm studying for a dual bachelor's in MechE / CS at RPI. Combining these majors was one of the best things I did at RPI. I love working with computers and I love learning about the mechanical world; I didn't choose my majors solely because that's what I wanted to do for a job.

I didn't think a dual degree would be very marketable, but now that I'm looking for a job, I'm finding that not only are the employers from both fields contacting me, but when I talk to them, they love the fact that I'm able to talk as comfortably about program stacks as grar trains.

Just one poor student's opinion.

Physics

[Physicles]

1) Get a degree in a field that interests you.

2) Don't Get a degree to increase your "marketability", unless it increases your "marketability" in a field that you would want a job in. In which case, see (1).

I mostly agree. I'm a junior at the University of Michigan. I started with pure physics, then added CS because I've always liked programming. Since then, my interest in physics has waned -- I've considered dropping my major several times -- but professors have encouraged me to stick with it, so I have. I've found physics to be more difficult intellectually than CS.

Physics and CS go well together. You can't really be a physicist anymore without having some programming skills. And if you want to do any kind of physical simulation, whether with fluids or rigid bodies or traffic or galaxies, then you'll need expertise in both areas.

About half those with a BS in physics go into industry (as opposed to continuing their education), many to jobs unrelated to physics. If you have a degree in physics, employers see that you know how to solve problems well.

It's paying off for me, as I currently have one internship offer and am following two more tracks for other internships. They're at good companies (though at least one has been called evil here). Everyone I talked to at the career fair a while back remarked about my physics major.


If you can't find another major you like, then just dig in and kick butt with CS. Take a course on object-oriented programming that covers design patterns, and do lots of work on cool projects in your free time.

What do you like doing?

[VolciMaster]

I've been asked by several people in my church recently what I think would be a good degree path for their son or daughter to pursue.

You have at least something of a career path framed in your mind, and experince (I presume) with the CS degree. What do you want to do, though, now that you have all that theoretical knowledge? You probably aren't lookign to be a code monkey somewhere, imlpementing what other CS majors have designed, complaining that they never took any of your advice, or even ask for input from you.

I'm mroe of the IT end of things, working on finishing up my bachelor's degree in CIS. However, I started my 'career' in programming working with a friend on fluid-flow analysis using finite element analysis software that we wrote from scratch. I didn't understand most of the math (I was only in 9th grade when we started), but I did learn a lot through that experience. I learned that I didn't want to just be a programmer. I wanted to be doing work at the systems analysis and design level, system/network administration. Both are high-level, complex job functions where your employer expects you to work at the macro level, but be able to jump down to the micro layers when needed.

If you liked all the math you did for your CS degree, I would reccommend going back for some form of engineering (I would personally choose mechanical, civil, or aerospace engineering). A few other posters suggested getting and MBA. They're great if you want to get into the business side of things. If you want to work for some place like AutoCAD, though, I'd say engineering will help a lot more than an MBA. If you want to get into running an IT department, then the MBA will give you the business savvy that higher-level management wants, but your CS background will keep you grounded in the technical details that your users will need.

Physics or math

[CanadaDave]

Physics or math. Stay away from chemistry or biology. If you know physics and math you can figure out chemistry or biology, but not vice versa.

Biology

[FleaPlus]

There's a huge demand for computational/quantitative folks in the biological sciences. Plus, the work you do there is freakin' cool (speaking as a theoretical neurobiologist).

You may find the following article in PLoS Biology interesting:

Mathematics Is Biology's Next Microscope, Only Better; Biology Is Mathematics' Next Physics, Only Better

Re:I can think of a few... techy or managey??

[zurtle]

It really depends what future you want for yourself, particularly in the short term. I found that coupling

a mathematics degree with

software engineering and

some hardware knowledge makes for a damned useful combination - especially in a communications/signal processing environment playing with all sorts of signals and modulation schemes.

If you want a broad range of subjects to cover, go for Test Engineering, it covers a helluva lot of areas of interest to most geeks! And I don't mean script-writing etc, that's for the technicians. This is full-on test system implementation - a pivotal position in any engineering company is test automation for hardware/software.

Take a look at the Raytheon job site, or other sites, they are screaming out for people in test engineering roles! It is a vital role in major companies.

From my short experience, MBAs are suitable for older people who can't make it up the management chain on their own (this isn't intended as a troll). It is valuable though, as people have plastered all through this thread, the right MBA works wonders, much like a laxative.

Requirements vs desired assets

[jcdill]

At first, I thought of a Master's, but in my searches for a job, I've rarely (read: never) seen a Masters degree required.

Although very few job reqs state that a Master's degree is required this doesn't mean that a Master's degree isn't a valuable asset when evaluating job candidates. If a company has several candidates for a position and one has a Master's degree, the Master's is going to be a big plus for that candidate.

The best way to find out what type of further education would be most valuable to YOU is to interview people who are doing the type of work you want to be doing in 10-15 years. Ask them what education they have that A) enabled them to be hired for that job and B) best prepared them for that job. (These may not be the same thing.)

East Asian Studies?

[DavidBartlett]

I plan to go on to East Asian Studies after I finish my CS degree. If the jobs are going to China, US companies will need professionals who understand the technology and the region.

Gee...wonder why?

[Mr. Underbridge]

They are hired strictly as good team players with good communication skills, who are good corporate citizens.

So what you're saying is, you can code OK but you have poor communication skills and can't fit in with the corporate structure.

Don't want to be mean, but it isn't your CS degree that's the problem - the people getting the jobs have those too, remember - it's your lack of social skills.

Imagine someone with good people skills who can code too? I bet that person gets the job.

I'd rather see hiring based on pure skills, but that's not how U.S IT companies do it.

Until you find this magical job that allows you to be the sole developer on your own project, people skills are relevant skills for a programmer. It seems to be something you lack, so don't be surprised by your inability to find a job you feel is commensurate with your coding abilities.

This isn't college anymore. You don't get to work by yourself. A good coder who can't interact with people is less valuable than a decent coder who can.

If you care to notice, you could learn a valuable life lesson here.

Re:Gee...wonder why?

[syukton]

Until you find this magical job that allows you to be the sole developer on your own project

It isn't that magical. Do independent work on a contract basis building one-off utilities or small websites. Then you're self-employed, which even removes the complication of somebody dumber than you telling you what to do.

Division of labor is actually somewhat a curse in larger organizations though, because you need everyone in the same room in order to really accomplish anything. In a lot of situaitons a project is made out to be much larger than it really is because those involved don't want to put forth a real amount of effort. I know all about this sort of thing; I'm a contractor for a certain loathed-by-slashdotters software company in Redmond, Washington. Division of labor is good when discussed as a concept in CS classes, but is badly implemented by MBAs.

I really, honestly, would rather have 1 single, lonely, friendless coder who can rock my socks and doesn't mind working late because he *likes his work* instead of a whole team of guys who're just there for the paycheque and don't feel passionate about their work and spend most of their time thinking about their (boy/girl)friend/wife/kids/friends/hobbies/car/etc instead of the code in front of them.

Re:Gee...wonder why?

[dbueno]

This isn't college anymore. You don't get to work by yourself. A good coder who can't interact with people is less valuable than a decent coder who can. If you care to notice, you could learn a valuable life lesson here.

I have (generally) found that in many cases those who are good coders but have bad people skills really only have "bad people skills" because they have to deal with (1) terrible programmers on the same project or (2) silly rules they shouldn't have to follow, but have to follow (for whatever reason). It's not that the person has a hard time getting along with anyone, it's that most of the people with whom he interacts (in terms of the given project) have no idea what they're talking about, and this he is disinclined to talk to them, because it is of no use.

Re:Gee...wonder why?

[Mr. Underbridge]

(1) terrible programmers on the same project

That'll happen. How you respond to it is up to you. But really, I personally wouldn't want how I interacted with that person to screw my chances in a company. If you're talented, you're bound to be surrounded with people (at least some) who aren't as good. There are constructive ways of dealing with that. Condscension or insults aren't a good way.

(2) silly rules they shouldn't have to follow, but have to follow (for whatever reason).

Shit, man, that's called life. My last boss drive me near to the brink of insanity. That's when it's time for deep breathing and/or a beer. Copping an attitude about it isn't a good idea. And often, there are good reasons for things that you don't know about or understand.

It's not that the person has a hard time getting along with anyone, it's that most of the people with whom he interacts (in terms of the given project) have no idea what they're talking about, and this he is disinclined to talk to them, because it is of no use.

Look, I think I know what you mean, and minimizing the fraction of your time that incompetent people waste is NOT "bad people skills." That's "good time management." The idea is to realize they're idiots, but not to allow them to notice this. That means being friendly, trying to help them gently, trying to give them stuff to do that is within their expertise, etc. And it's not like it's their fault if they can't code as well as you. It's not an excuse to be an ass, but it is an excuse to do everything you can so your work doesn't depend on them - preferably without them noticing. That's called playing the game.

Re:Gee...wonder why?

[rjshields]

I really, honestly, would rather have 1 single, lonely, friendless coder who can rock my socks and doesn't mind working late because he *likes his work* instead of a whole team of guys who're just there for the paycheque and don't feel passionate about their work and spend most of their time thinking about their (boy/girl)friend/wife/kids/friends/hobbies/car/etc instead of the code in front of them.

I hope I never work for someone with that attitude! My family is far more important than my job, and always will be. I pity those for whom work comes before everything else, for their lives will surely be less fulfilling. Work is something which you do to earn a living. Work to live, don't live to work.

And that person that you hire who enjoys working overtime and has no life outside of work will alienate others in your company because he is a miserable git. Why else would he have no friends and no life? A healthy life outside of works makes people more productive inside work. Happy and fulfilled staff are happy and productive workers.

Biology

[spin2cool]

If you're interested in computational biology or bioinformatics, you'll have it made in either academia or industry. With the genomic revolution looming, people who can apply their knowledge of CS and algorithms to biological/biomedical problems are in HUGE demand.

Feel free to replace biology with biochemistry, molecular biology, or biomedical engineering degrees, as your particular tastes warrant.

Foreign language

[Propaganda13]

Foreign languages are helpful. It depends on the company, and where they have offices, plants, or what to expand.

I've debated learning Mandarin based on the possibility of China's future impact on the market.

a Foriegn language - preferably chineese or Hindi

[MerlynEmrys67]

You will be working there soon enough anyway - might as well speak the language

If you have to ask, you're not ready

[ediron2]

For a while after finishing college, you feel drawn back to the college life. Be sure you're not going back just because it's comfortable. If you don't even care if you're gonna become a manager, head-geek, marketdroid, tech-writer, tech-law guru or whatever (what *Degree* depends on your answer to that question), you're seriously not prime for grad school.

One friend's dad offered to pay for her grad school completely after she'd worked 5 years. Wise man: she's never looked back.

Another friend, the smartest science/tech student in years at my high school, stopped with a BS, moved to Silicon Valley, and says she'd literally *fall behind* in her field if she left work for 1-3 years. I kind of doubt this, since she could nail additional courses in her area as they paralleled her work until the degree sorta just plopped in her lap one day. She publishes enough. She studies and learns new stuff enough. But the degree also stopped mattering to anyone she knows *years* ago.

Another friend nailed a triple major, which took him longer than the rest of us. It didn't gain him any of the cash or glamour he bragged he'd get. That's some serious money wasted.

My own take is that graduate work should wait until you start finding something really compelling to become gods-own-expert in. Let me say it again: if you don't even care if you're gonna become a manager, head-geek, marketdroid, tech-writer, tech-law guru or whatever (what *Degree* depends on your answer to that question), you're seriously not prime for grad school. Take a class or two. Or just dive into some side project to gain some focus: pick a subset from that list of career paths and find a way to get experience in it.

I did some grad courses, and exited because it was clear that I wasn't sure what I wanted to do yet, and figured if I was going to become a PhD, it had better be in something I gave a rat's-ass about.

Ten years later, I'm fairly certain what that might be. If I weren't having so much fun with work, wife, kids, life in general, I'd probably go back. Once the kids aren't a delightful distraction, I'll start picking an ideal college/mentor or three to contact and apply to.

Caveat: grad degrees are candy: I approve, but I don't preach 'em. OTOH, Bachelor's degrees are not optional IMHO: they're a 2-way vaccine: at some point not having one can kill your career advancement; and they're used by employers as a yardstick. Doesn't apply to you, doesn't matter here, but it's a big deal to me: I've seen a few friends really hurt by not having BS behind their name (usually happens pretty late in life). Mileage may vary and that's my humble opinion and the value-of-a-degree subject has been hammered to death on /.

Re:If you have to ask, you're not ready

[Kope]

I'd say I really disagree with this.

As someone who does a lot of hiring (my department went from 35 to 70 people in the last year), and who has a very good view of what allows people to succeed, I think grad school is a very good indicator of job performance.

But it's not the tech degree I'm looking to see. I want to see a grad degree in a field that demands people to think in a variety of ways. BSc. in Comp Sci is a dime a dozen in any major city.

Pair that with a MA in philosophy, theology, history, linguistics, sociology . . . anything that is vastly different from the comp. sci. degree.

Why?

Because those people are going to have a broad range of problem solving skills and are going to be able to understand when technical issues should be subordinated to other considerations. They'll also, after a few years, be the guys that I'll really listen too when they knock on my door to say that the suits are going to really screw the pooch if we don't push the techniical issue on this one.

That doesn't mean that you should just pick an advanced degree and go for it if you have no passion for the field. But if you have something that interests you, go for it.

Re:Three Letters: MFA

[teknomage1]

Studies now say that Master of Fine Arts (MFA) is the new MBA since the current opinion is that creativity can't be taught. SO to be hip and trendy get an MFA!

hate to be serious but...

[AndyGasman]

Where i work our dream softie is someone with a ComSci and an ElecEng degree, though we do more embeded software. I recon ComSci and pure maths would be a good one for high brow software ;) or an ComSci and MBA for business systems.

Poli Sci... not just for policy wonks

[mertzman]

I know a few people here at my university who are dual majors in CS and Political Science. At first it seemed like an odd combination, but it works quite well both in terms of academics and employment prospects.

Political Science classes tend to be pretty flexible in terms of managing writing and reading assignments, so they mesh good with the more deadline-intensive CS projects. Since Poli Sci tends to emphasize writing, its also a good major to build your language skills with. (Not to mention, a political theory class with a unit on Machiavelli has priceless potential when its lessons are applied in the workplace!)

In terms of employment, there are a ton of opportunities in academia, business, and government. There's a surprisingly large demand for techies in political research, as things like polls often require lots of customized code to carry out statistical analyses. Then there's the government potential... a Poli Sci degree is a ticket into many government agencies, and combined with Comp Sci, you bring useful and much needed tech skills... (you'd be especially well suited if you wanted to go down that whole secret agent CIA/NSA/FBI sort of route).

Similarly, Sociology or Psychology also work well with CS from what I've heard, for many of the same reasons. So definitely don't overlook the social sciences as an option.

CS majors can sit for the USPTO bar exam

[ahbi]

No, the USPTO allows CS people to sit for the Patent Bar now. It is a Category A degree now. Of course, previously you could petition your way in under Category B.

I certainly wouldn't waste my time in law school unless I could sit for the USPTO exam (or your land's equivalent).

This is the F'ing toughest exam I have ever taken. Makes the state bar look like a cake walk. Also no law school classes help you with this. Not even the Patent Law class. I suggest (and YMMV) you take the exam after you clerk and have some experience with the procedures of the PTO.

Typical question:
Using the non-searchable PDF of the Manual of Patent Examination Procedure (a Yellow Pages telephone book sized document). Below are 5 sentences from the MPEP. We have added the word "not" to four of these sentences. Which sentence did we not alter?

Also, while it doesn't matter for CS & EEs, if you are going into the BioMed area, many inventors don't want to talk to you unless you have a PhD or Med degree.

MIS Degree

[Zakir]

MIS or Management of Information Systems. This will give you more of the business part of it, but still keeping it mostly technical. and some certifications....

Electronics

[Zone-MR]

How about Electronics then? You know how to write great code - but how about combining this ability with some in-depth hardware knowledge in order to design the next killer gadget?

Re:Obligatory: You actually need a BA!

[mp3phish]

Not too ironic...

The MBA is still going to McDonalds... He must not be rich.

You don't "matriculate" into jobs like that!

[aquarian]

You speak as if getting these degrees automatically "qualifies" you for a career in patent law. The fact is this is just a foot in the door. Many people get that foot in the door, only to fall on their face because they lack the *talent* it takes to be a patent lawyer worthy of the kind of pay you're hearing about.

Best degree to pair with a comp sci degree?

[rajdash]

Hmmm. Why not pick something that interests you. As someone with 27 years programming experience, lets just say that money isn't everything. Nevertheless, I've had a hard time getting full-time computer work for over 3 years (at least in Canada; I get offers to the States but can't move just yet). So I'm now preparing to beef up my math background with a BA Math, MSc Applied Math, and hopefully a PhD Applied Math.

On the other hand, there are several combinations that would make you very marketable:

Masters of Technology - similar to an MBA but specifically geared to technology companies

Law degree - Computer Law is sorely lacking in knowledgeable people. Look what's going on with the US Patent Office. Ridiculous patents are being granted for "algorithms" that belong to Mathematics, not to some powerful conglomerate. Once upon a time, patents couldn't be granted for techniques in the public domain. So why has that changed?

Electrical Engineer - You just might become the creator of the next CPU design.

Human Kinetics - Computers will never go away. How we use them might. So design input devices that suit our physiology makes great sense. Let's get rid of poorly designed laptops, please.

Geography degree - maybe you'd enjoy pairing your Comp Sci degree with digital mapping and Geographic Information Systems (GIS). Geographical analysis for business and government use has been increasing steadily since the mid-80s. GIS has many, many applications. While you do not need a full Geography degree to use or even design a GIS, knowing geographical/mapping terms, spherical projections, etc., is quite useful.

For those of you with a strong creative bent, pair up your Comp Sci with:

Fine Arts - ever consider being a digital illustrator/ animator? Our Canadian arts colleges seem to have most of our grads snapped up by Disney and other American companies

Music - Electronic composers are making a name for themselves on TV shows like CSI, CSI:Miami, and CSI:NY, amongst others. Unfortunately, it's not that easy to get into this biz, nor in computer game music. (Check out the Los Angeles Institute of Music's distance course "Music for the Media" at www.musicforthemedia.com.)

three other letters

[gad_zuki!]

HCI.

Consider the ethics first

[Anthony Liguori]

A good patent lawyer doesn't simply tell their client whether something is patentable. A good patent lawyer finds a way to make whatever their client brings them patentable in the broadest way possible.

If you have any doubts about how well the patent system works, this job is not for you. It's very much like a typically defense lawyer. Your job is to get the person the lightest sentence possible regardless of crime with faith in the fact that the system in general will work regardless of your abilities.

I'm not making a judgement about how well the system works or doesn't work. Just pointing out that you should consider this before you pursue this path.

And for what it's worth, dealing with IP lawyers has been the most pleasant lawyer-related experience I've had. Extremely bright people.

Major in any biology, but minor in CS

[Seoulstriker]

Unlike what is suggested by the parent, you don't "pick up" a little bit of molecular biology, or bioinformatics, or computational biology. The focus of your studies should be in studying the biology and then dabbling in a little bit of CS. Hell, I'm doing computational biology research and datamining bacterial genomes, and you hardly even need to know how to develop applications. I've primarily been doing scripting in PERL, and I'm trying to pick up a little python. If you know the fundamentals of programming, you don't even need to take a CS course.

If you're not motivated to do the biology coursework behind bioinformatics, you will not get anywhere in your career. Labs want people who can code a bit, not people who understand the fundamentals of designing operating systems. Mathematics, statistics, and scripting will get you farther than CS and a bit of bio will ever get you. Choose wisely.

Re:Major in any biology, but minor in CS

[CharlesEGrant]

Labs want people who can code a bit, not people who understand the fundamentals of designing operating systems. Mathematics, statistics, and scripting

Yes and no. Knowing a little perl is terrifically useful for bench people, but if you are working on shrink-wrap software or even programs for general use by the biological community issues of software engineering and algorithmic efficiency become important. The exciting thing about computational biology is that it is the meeting point of 3 vast edifices of technology: molecular biology, statistical inference, and computer science. It works best if the biologists recognize how little they now about computer science, the computer scientists recognize how little they know about biology, and both recognize how little they know about statistical inference.

I'm currently a CS student....

[cybersavior]

I'm currently a freshman student going for a B.S in Computer Science. Now, I will admit that I dont have the same expirence in the coporate world as many of you all have had, however, I am dual-majoring in Philosophy.

I originally considered dualing with an MBA but thats what *everyone* has. I like to think (and hope) that in the coporate world, individuality counts for somthing. If 30 programmers apply for a position, all having CS/Business degrees and 1 applys with a CS/Philosophy degree, I would hope the Philosophy guy would get the position.

Now, I also chose Philosophy because I think its fun. Part of going to school is not just learning to help you in the job market, but to actually better yourself through knowledge. I would suggest find somthing that interests you and go for that.

Got a pipe wrench?

[rs79]

Get a plumbing degree. You're gonna be putting up with people's shit either way; you may as well get paid decently for it for a change.

It hurts when I do this

[rs79]

"Then there's the matter of the MCAT, an eight hour standardized exam from hell testing ..... writing 2 essays."

So, uh, how'd that work out for you?

It depends...

[Keebler71]

It depends... it sounds like you want to remain a programmer, but want to know which other degree will make you a better programmer. If that is really the case, then the answer depends on which type of programmer you want to be!

If you want to be a game developer, then perhaps a short-course in graphic design or a degree in cinematography or physics.
If you want to write buisness software, perhaps a degree in buisness or finance.
Do you want to write embedded software? A degree in Computer or Electrical engineering.
Do you want to write aircraft avionics software? Then a degree in aeronautical engineering.

I work with programmers every day... and they are excellent programmers... the problem is that they have no idea *how* the software they are writing will be used by the end user. Thus they spend many development interations creating what they *think* the user wants, only to have to go back and re-write significant sections of code. Since most of the bugs are introduced at the requirements analysis level (early), you can save your company a mint by really understanding how the software will be used... and that will make you a rare comodity. Good luck!

1-in-3 odds?

[Shag]

16000 seats, 48000 candidates? That's only 3 applicants for each available slot - not bad. The astronomy folks I work for (one department within the graduate division of one university) have 30 applicants per slot.

Admittedly, successful candidates do get to play with big shiny toys, but I think they make less than doctors. :)

Have I mentioned that Astronomy goes well with CS?

Serious answer

[rs79]

Law degree. Specialize in intellectual property. Fight the good fight; resist the dark side. I have as friends a number of people with (science/cs) PhD's that became intellectual property attornies. The are all exceptional people and the world is a better place because of them, not worse.

Itis utterly shocking the number of intellectual property "attornies" that don't actually understand the law.

The world needs a few more good IP lawyers.

Re:Where do they find these moderators??

[CharlesEGrant]

It is an attitude unfortunately typical of a young person trained in physics or math. I'm speaking with a blush here because I remember saying similar things 20 years ago.

My original education was in physics but years later I got a B.S. in chemistry. The physical chemistry classes were relatively easy, though by no means a cinch. Synthetic organic chemistry blew my mind: terrificly hard puzzles that couldn't be framed in terms of math. I've since encountered similar depths in genetics. I still love physics and math, but I no longer accept Rutherford's claim that all science is either physics or stamp collecting.

10 letters - experience

[gosand]

You'll also have to cope with the huge influx with people graduating with MBAs over the next few years. I have to wonder if the market is going to be flooded with too many MBAs soon.

Don't get me wrong. Education is a good thing, but it really seems like everyone and his sister are enrolling in an MBA program.

Which I think pretty much answers the posters question. If there is a flood of MBAs in the market, someone with an MBA and a BS-CS degree would definitely stand out. Maybe not as much as if there were no MBAs in the market, but an MBA with a CS degree is defintely a benefit.

Of course, you might get stuck doing the MBA stuff versus the CS stuff. Personally, I wouldn't want that. I would recommend getting experience in the "real world" and not worry so much about the extra degrees. I would rather hire someone with the extra experience under their belt.

Next Degree

[OldManGamer]

As others have noted: Another degree isn't going to help you if you don't know what you want to do. Get some experience in industry, in retail, in anything but academia. Learn about your people skills; this will lead you to or away from business analysis. Are you a coder with mad skillz, a designer with a user-friendly touch, a communications hacker with mystic diagnostic ability? So, you try a few things and they don't work; just keep trying. A couple of years doing that is better than spending them in class. My 2 cents.