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U.S. to Require Passport To Re-Enter Country
The Hobo writes "The CBC is reporting that starting in 2007, most Canadians will require a passport to cross into the United States and by 2008 Americans who crossed freely into Canada will be unable to return to the United States without a passport. The tougher new rules still allow Canadians to cross without being fingerprinted, but every person from any other country will be required to submit to fingerprinting." From the article: "Currently, Canadians and Americans are able to enter the United States with little more identification than a driver's licence or a birth certificate, though a passport has sometimes made it simpler to satisfy immigration officers at the border."
What's the big deal? Canadians and Americans still don't need passports to get home, nor do they need to worry about fingerprinting.
If you're an American without a passport, just come back through California, Mexico, and Arizona. The desert's hot, you'll pick up lots of dust, and after a few days' hiking, you'll have picked up a nice Mexican tan. Se Habla Espanol! You're in!
If you're a Canadian without a passport, remember that you're indistinguishable from the American as long as you remember to pronounce it "owwwwt" (like you stubbed your toe), instead of "oot" (like if you're going oot and aboot), and if you can pretend that Budweiser is beer for a few days. Grab a six-pack of Bud for your American friend and follow him across the desert. Then take a US domestic flight (for which no passport is required) to New York State. Go to the Six Nations Reserve and offer to haul some smokes 'n' booze in across the St. Lawrence. If it's winter, you can even walk home, eh?
Or remotely sniff the RFID off some other poor schlub and just use his passport.
Seriously, what's the big deal? Don't have a passport, go to Mexico, eh? :)
Because, as we all know, passports are never forged. Ever.
I don't see how we are more "protected" than the current system.
That could never happen to me, as my voice is my passport. Please verify me.
There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
Shouldn't be too long before interstate travel in the US requires a passport. That'll finally put an end to criminals moving to another state to hide from the law.
"The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once." -me
i was able to cross the border just by telling the customs agent where i was going and for how long..
MABASPLOOM!
Americans who crossed freely into Canada will be unable to return to the United States without a passport Damn, does that mean we're stuck with them then?
"Goodbye, my Canadian friends."
"Goodbye, those funky round flat bacon, hockey teams.."
"Goodbye, to those maple leaf brothers."
The door will go from wide-open to slightly ajar....
(sigh)
to figure out eh who is a canadian eh? im mean eh, it's aboot national secoority eh. so, if it makes the US safer, eh, then it should be okay eh.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
I grew up in Buffalo, NY so going back and forth to Canada was as regular an occurence as going to the mall. Only once was I asked for any kind of ID whatsoever, and that was because I was with a British citizen. Usually they would just ask you "Citizen of what country" and if you said "USA" they would wave you in.
to NOT travel to the USA
come to canada instead - all of the beauty - none of the ph34r
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
The CBC is reporting that starting in 2007, most Canadians will require a passport to cross into the United States and by 2008 Americans who crossed freely into Canada will be unable to return to the United States without a passport. The tougher new rules still allow Canadians to cross without being fingerprinted, but every person from any other country will be required to submit to fingerprinting.
Now, it's my understanding that a sovereign country can control their borders in any way they see fit. Perhaps there's some sort of rights argument to be made about the americans who need a passport to re-enter their country, although it doesn't seem like a major issue, but Canadians.. heck, I'm a Canadian, and it doesn't really effect our rights. America can do whatever they want with their borders to non-citizens. If they don't want to let us come in, heck, that really is their perogative.
"There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
- Bob Dylan
Then you need to go to the American embassy, and they'll help you re-enter the country. This is true for entry into the US from almost anywhere.
Take off every sig. For great justice.
I bet they will still let people in without a passport. Only Americans would be naive enough to leave their country without one. Thus proof of citizenship!
With that gaping security hole closed up I can finally sleep at night knowing I'm safe from all the bad people in the world.
What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
Your Rights Offline
No, you'll have to go online to get a good fake passport.
I submitted the story, and forgot to include this as food for thought:
Think of a typical family of four. My own just did this. Say this family wants to go to Disneyland from Canada. As it stands, my parents were able to go with the young'ns without a problem, and none of them have passports. Tourists from Canada are a part of the US economy. Had the passports been required, it would have cost: 87 + 87 + 37 + 37, plust GST, which is a total of 265.36$, and that doesn't even include the trouble of finding a guarantor and taking passport photos which cost more than normal photos. This is on top of any other travel costs, likely for a single trip. This will most definitely deter Canadians from visiting and spending money in the US. Not to mention that passports take at least 3 weeks to get, ruling out any sudden decisions to say pick a US ski package to a Canadian one. I personally enjoy taking trips to the US, but this makes it much harder, and I'm certain this scenario will be repeated.
There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
Your Rights Offline is still YRO. Yay for spelling!
Be very very wary.... the War on Tourism will be a long hard road.... there may even be tourists living on your street. Your next door neighbor may be a tourist, report any suspicious activities. We will not stop until we have eliminated the scourge of touism from our land. They are all around you, checking out our national treasures.
The EU, and the rest of the world, should call the American's bluff on this one.. just not produce the new funky passports to appease the US.
Further, I hope Canada reciprocates and requires americans to have valid passports.
Sounds like a plan for a series of protests against this policy, if people feel strongly enough about it. Pick a day, and a time, and forget your passport. Have literature on each of your cars... (I think it would work better at land crossings where you can tie up more people)...
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ
Used to be freer than that
Man, I've been hearing that my whole life (sigh).
What if Canada deports me? I'm screwed!
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
As long as they have proper documentation and identification. Otherwise its...
"I'm sorry sir, but your papers are not in order.."
U.S. citizens get pretty pissed off when you try and fingerprint them as they enter another country. And more countries will follow suit with this. The principle of reciprocality is enforced by most nations on this planet....so get ready to be fingerprinted U.S. citizens...you treat guests in your country like criminals, and we'll treat you the same way if you ever come to ours...only we'll probably dick you around for 9 hours in the airport as a bit of payback.
Since when did producing a passport become the equivalent of a cavity search?
Idiotic statements like yours lead me to believe you are uneducated and don't understand the horrors that the Soviets put their citizens through.
Mmmm.. Donuts
That'll stop Terr'rists! The 9/11 hijackers had legit ID, sheesh. More scare tactics to make you feel safe as the government takes away your freedom of movement.
Last time I travelled to Japan I was required to show my passport upon re-entering the United States. Last time I travelled to Europe (more than ten years ago!), same thing.
The deal we had with Canada was a special thing. You don't have any "right" to travel to another country and then re-enter without a passport. In fact, most countries require it - including the United States in every other case (except now with Mexico - and you can bet the DHS is looking at that now too).
This is just closing a loophole in the current immigration system. I don't see why Americans should continue to be able to get away without even owning a passport when practically every other citizen of the civilized world carries one pretty much wherever they go. There's no reason for us to be smug about our backwardness.
Because the assholes who planebombed NYC and DC all had passports, were known terrorists, and were connected on the record with the assholes who bombed the WTC in 1993. Mohammed Atta's passport was somehow found fluttering atop the burning steel slag of the WTC - even tougher than the 2 planes' 4 blackbox recorders, which have never been reported found. I feel safer already.
--
make install -not war
It's so busy with tourists during your summer month.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
It's no big deal really, just sign in oneline.
Trust us.
by 2008 Americans who crossed freely into Canada will be unable to return to the United States without a passport
Has anyone asked Canada what they think about all the dickhead americans that didn't bring their passport with them being left in their country...american arrogance at it's best:
America: And if you don't bring your passport we won't let you back.
Canada: Hang aboot...don't we get a say in who get's to stay in our country and for how long?
America: Is that oil?
Canada: Oh shit
Seriously. They've already shown they'll use whatever loopholes they can find in the Bill of Rights. Like right now, we've got several thousand people incarcerated on the territory of an unfriendly power, because it'd be illegal to incarcerate them anywhere else!
Oh nevermind, excuse me... Bin Laden is on the teevee again so it's time for our two minutes of Hate. I hear W Bush has a conference scheduled afterwards to talk about all the Peace his wars have brought, how the new anti-terrorism laws make America free, and how strong the country is are with a leader like himself.
After that, then I'll maybe have some time to listen to your lame 1984 analogies -- you paranoid nutcase.
501 Not Implemented
This is reflecting the new political reality that the current Administration and the ruling party in congress considers left-leaning first world nations as ideological enemies to be isolated and opposed on the global stage. It's a clear sign that the US considers open access to Canada and Canadian culture as being counterproductive to their ideals in reshaping America to the Dickensian nightmare of theocracy and plutocracy.
This isn't a security issue. This is an issue of punishing America's closest allies for following a different political destiny. It's to protect Michiganders and New Hampshirites from being exposed to affordable healthcare, gay rights and decrinminalized marijuana.
Don't think it's true? Look at the ruthless, relentless and sometimes threatening and bellicose criticism of Europe by the right-wing blogosphere, professional pundits, and administration officials like Rumsfeldt. Canada is culturally closer to Europe at this point than the US... and the US will be punishing them for that at every opportunity.
It's a new Berlin wall, to discourage cultural contamination. I can think of nothing more heartbreaking.
SoupIsGood Food
Last summer we crossed in to Canada from the U.S. and back again at the Grand Portage MN crossing. Getting into Canada and back into the U.S. was a "piece of cake." The Canadian authority was a young man - maybe 21 or 22 if he was looking young for his age. He simply asked a series of questions (a couple of which were unexpected and I assume were part of the security screening process) and welcomed us to Canada and let us go.
What was interesting about that crossing was what any geek is likely to notice. As you approach the station there are cameras and lights - I'm sure that they use some recognition software and run you license plate before you ever even get close to the guard shack. Then as you pick your lane there are these posts that have a couple of convenient slots that I'm sure are also hiding cameras. The driver and the undersides of the vehicle are photographed as you slowly approach the shack.
On the return trip, the US Customs agent steps out of the shack, writes down your license plate and requests ID from you. He talks to you briefly asking a few simple questions. Didn't take more than a few seconds. But it was all manual! Clearly, at this crossing at least, the Canadians have out-spent us and out-classed us security-wise.
It was especially telling when i spent time in former east germany, and especially east berlin.
After seeing first hand the memorial to the berlin wall, and the destruction all across east germany (like how none of it was rebuilt during the pre-unification years), i vowed that the next time i heard some fucking _IDIOT_ saying something positive about communisim/socialism, or trying to compare whats happening in the US to what transpired in eastern europe and the soviet union, id be sure and make my token attempt to set them straight.
You sir, are seriously lacking perspective.
My wife and i flew from the US to the EU and back and no cavities were searched. We brought back food items and the customs people were very pleasant and allowed our stuff with no problems. The metal detectors detected metal on my body i didn't realize existed (i.e. in my shoes).
Having crossed the border between canada and the US several times via car, i've always been alarmed at how lax the security was - even though the trunk of my car was searched on a few occasions (i tend to seem suspicious, i guess), i never felt it was unreasonable for the border patrol to try and ascertain if i had a trunk full of bodies or guns or something.
I am all for extremely strong border protections. All are welcome in the US, so long as they play by the rules, which are set and enforced by the sole discretion of the US. I wish we were putting our troops on the mexican border instead of some of the other places they're currently deployed, but thats political suicide (behaving reasonably often is)
Controlling who enters and exits the US is a good idea. You can be sure that what the US is doing - trying to do a marginal job at asking "so, who are you?" is a damn sight less invasive than shooting women in the back, which is how things were handled in some of the regimes you're comparing the US to.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
It also helps to be the right skin colour and accent, or at least not the "wrong" ones.
I get waved through all the time too. My cousin, on the other hand, has gotten his car ripped apart.
Exactly! Despite all the hand-wringing here, that's what this change is actually all about.
The formal rules for who can come and go haven't changed, what has changed is just the level of proof that a person has to supply in order to come into the country. Previously if a white, accent-free American went to Canada and upon returning said "I'm a citizen", he or she would be pretty much just let in. But if an arab-looking American with an accent went to Canada and upon returning said "I'm a U.S. citizen", do you think he or she would just waltz in? I doubt it. But do you think America really should let any person who says "I'm a U.S. citizen" waltz into the country with little or no proof?
This change "levels the field" by setting common, enforceable criteria for entering the country. If you have a valid U.S. passport or a foreign passport with an appropriate visa, you can come in, regardless of race, accent, or appearance. If you don't, well... I guess you'll be spending the afternoon at the U.S. consulate while they check you out more thoroughly.
P.S. Driver's licenses and birth certificates are essentially "no proof" as the former does not actually indicate citizenship or residency, the latter doesn't have a photo, neither has a standard format, and both are easy to fake.
"To be absolutely certain about something, one must know everything or nothing about it." -- Olin Miller
My mother has had a US driver license for over 30 years. She was not, however, a US citizen for most of this time, she was a resident alien. Driver licenses are just that: licenses to operate a vehicle. They do not indicate citizenship, or even residency status.
The US lacks a citizen ID card like many nations have, so the only real document that works is a passport.
There's a lot of small towns near the border, on both sides with businesses have become dependant on the very easy and quick ability for people to pass back and forth across the border without the slightest hassle. I wonder if this change will dampen the economies of those small towns. Using a passport is only a small hassle, but it's a small hassle where previously there were none.
When I was a small child my family went on a car trip through the canadian rockies. The border guard was one guy in a booth not much larger than a photomat. There wasn't even a barrier gate across the road that lifted out of the way or anything like that, just a stop sign. This was the full extent of the border crossing questions:
guard (seeing family station-wagon): Hello folks, May I ask your purpose in entering Canada?
my Dad: sightseeing camping. (obvious from the car full of supplies).
guard: Are you planning on staying long?
my Dad: just two weeks.
guard: Do you have any guns or fruit? (What an odd combination of of questions)
my Dad - a bag of apples we just bought for lunch later.
guard: If you just bought them it should be okay. We're worried about the spread of fruit flies from further south but if you just bought them in washington they'll be fine.
guard: yup! Welcome to Canada. Have a wonderful trip.
my Dad - Don't you need to see some ID?
guard: I suppose if it will make you feel better.
The re-entry into the US was even more lax - The guard saw the license plates on the car were from the US, and asked, "Let's see - plates from Wisconsin - car packed for a camping trip - Coming back from a vacation I see? Okay - Welcome back, go on through..."
Sigh. Those were friendlier times.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
The tighter the grip using passports the greater the likeihood they'll get the people to eventually accept a National Identity Card so everywhere you go even inside the US can be tracked.
It just shows another clear example of the governments agenda for the future and its all about tracking obviously.
Another invasive thing now they want to be able to use the black boxes in people's car for insurance data purposes in legal cases. Most people aren't even aware that new cars have these devices built in and are recording everything.
Business Voyeur
So now I'll need to get a passport - which costs $87, and must be renewed every 5 years - just to cross the border??!
Uhm.. no thanks. I think I'll just stay at home.
I am the maverick of Slashdot
You don't have any "right" to travel to another country and then re-enter without a passport.
Right...well, perhaps not. But history has been on the side of paperless travel, in particular with regards to Canada. They only began immigration checks on the US-Canada border in the 1950s (I remember reading somewhere that there were riots when this started, it was very controversial.) Since about the 1980s Congress has mandated a passport for Americans travelling from countries from outside of the Western Hemisphere. A lot of that rule still stands...I can go to just about any Carribbean country with my birth certificate, and even my home country of Costa Rica decided to cash in on the tourist dollars and allow Americans to travel there with just a birth certificate. It's possible that, if the US never required Americans to have a passport for re-entry, than neither would have the Japanese for your trips.
On a side note, apparently, the passport was created during World War I as a temporary document intended to prevent spies from crossing european borders. It was not a document viewed well...europeans were horrified by the idea that they would require documentation to go across borders. I'm amused by the bogus reasoning for its creation...it gives me a little satisfaction to know that people were as dumb then as they are now.
There are certainly people stopped from going one way or another on the US-Canadian border, but it still has not been proven that there's an aggregate security increase from documented crossing than without documented crossings. It's possible our time would be better spent doing different types of security checks than documentation checks.
Excuse me, but how do you think we feel about it? Any Americans with two neurons left to rub together to make a spark is saddened by the souring of our relationship with you. And not just you but just about every other country on the planet.
How would you like to be saddled with George Bush and have 52% of your fellows think he's just a great guy? And then try to blame you for their vote because you didn't come up with a better candidate. Try it for a while and see how it feels.
We're watching a country we love descend into ignorance, intolerance and fear.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Personally, as a British citizen (and one involved in the fight against ID cards here), I resent the prospect of being fingerprinted, and treated like a common criminal, so much that I will not travel to the USA. I have nothing to hide, but I know that once fingerprints are on record, they will never be deleted, and I value my privacy. As a consequence, our family has not holidayed in the USA since, and this will cost the USA $10,000+ in lost income over a few years. Hopefully, the Democrats will change the policy back when GWB is finally kicked out.
What happened to the USA? It was a free country with ideals, and now it is becoming a tyranny.
I'm glad you took the time to write the response you did. It is very rare to hear from Americans who dislike the direction their country has taken. Because of the massive amount of words and action from the other 52% of your fellows, it is damn near impossible not to generalize or write-off the whole country.
Actually I believe there were at least a couple of occassions that terrorists tried to enter the U.S. across the Canadian-U.S. border. Ahmed Ressam was probably the most noteworthy.
I didn't know this issue was a big deal. In fact I thought it was already a done deal. Last time I went to Canada from Seattle the border agent told me that my Driver's License was not "adequate ID" to enter Canada and I may not be able to re-enter the U.S. This was two years ago. Of course the funny thing being right after he told me this he let me go on through. Yes, it was just a warning to get people like me prepared to need to use a passport. So I got one. No big deal. I'm not going to be able to go to Europe, South America, or Asia without one anyway, why not Canada?
Everybody dies frustrated and sad and that is beautiful
Or, for another example, take China. I've only seen a little bit of China, the bit near Hong Kong. But you get a sense of just how quickly parts of China are growing when you go there.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Witness the drug market. How many people out there that don't use drugs know someone who uses drugs? How many of you people could pretend to have enough interest in said drugs to learn enough about who they bought them from to file an anonymous tip?
Probably a good half of the population could, with almost no work at all, and the possiblity of a reward. Including many police officers. I know I could, at least three times. (That is, I know three completely different sets of drug users, who I assume do not have the same supplier as they live very far apart.)
How many people actually do that?
Almost no one.
How many people know someone who's a murderer and don't turn them in?
Almost no one. They'd have to be a real good friend or close relative, or you'd have to think the murder was justified in some way.
If it requires a valid passport to get into the US, and people commonly, for whatever reason, need to sneak in without them, there will be a black market up and down the Canadian border within a year. Everyone will know a guy who knows who to get you in touch with, exactly like drugs are now. (Well, everyone who lives near the border will know a guy, I guess. Probably not people in Florida. OTOH, people in Florida probably already know a guy who knows a guy who can get people out of Cuba.)
The only way there won't be a black market is if everyone gets passports, or they start not letting US citizens into Canada without a US passport, so no one has a problem getting back.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
thats a funny theory...
:)
i'm a red state resident (and by intention) and i voted to the right of the current administration (by european standards)
i just spent a month in germany and iceland, including 2 weeks of schooling in the german language.
I for the life of me cannot understand where the radical left, and those who foam at the mouth with their hatred of the US / the current admnistration come from.. i've yet to hear of a perfect politician but man, i just dont get the fuss. With this in mind, i figured i'd hear it from the horses mouth and come back to the states with some kind of new perspective on life.
Instead what i learned is that at least from the people i spoke with, the violently anti-US and anti-bush fever is fed and spun basically everywhere, and its almost more of a beleif/perspective than anything objective.
After being badgered about it for a while, I tried asking some relatives in iceland why they felt the need to tell me that they hated GWB (i never brought up poltiics, but plenty of people, upon finding i was american, told me they hated Bush, are hoping hillary clinton wins in 08, and that the US government sucks.. all totaly out of context of whatever the conversation was)
What i got was: europeans generally dislike bush for 3 reasons
1) iraq invasion
2) "he's too right wing"
3) "he's too religious"
skipping point 1, i asked about the other two.
regarding point #2, i asked if being "right wing" was intrinsically bad. it apparently isn't. then i pointed out that, compared to europe, the US _is_ right wing, and furthermore, the US was founded by people that either couldn't stand, couldn't survive, or couldn't legally continue to, put up with the bullshit of the governments of europe, so if we dont have the same exact world view, there's a reason for that. I also assured him that some in the US are vastly more "right wing" than GWB, who has really let down some of the red state voters on some issues..
on point 3, well, i asked what the objection was. apparently the president should never use "God" in a speech. Nevermind that our money has "In god we trust" written on it. Nevermind also that in Iceland, the president's house has its own private church on the grounds, and the president is expected to enter that building to pray for the country in times of danger. Or that in Germany, you've got the Christian Democratic party with a huge percentage of power. Yet the US/GWB is seen as beeing "too religious". Riiiiiiight.
I also had a very interesting discussion on the iraq war issue with them, and i wouldn't say that they had a compelling argument, although thats too much flamebait even for slashdot
In any case, I really liked some of the things big government and overregulation gets you (like the munich public transit system, and unrestricted autobahns... only possible with the ridiculous TUV and licensing process in germany).. but after talking with people and finding a lot more heat than light, i was glad to be returning to the US. My wife is exicted about purchasing our first family firearm, since the students we met from dublin told us over and over that they were mortified that someone in the US could have a gun in their home, and that such a person would be insane, and that they'd never even enter a _building_ with resident-owned firearms inside.. fearing for their safety.
Finally, i told the people that were frothy at the mouth about how awful the US government was, that, unlike their countries, if they disliked how the US did things, they could move here, learn english (which most europeans under the age of 40 know quite well anyhow), pay their $75 or whatever it is, vote, and do something to change it.
In any case, I look forward to going back to Germany as often as possible, if for no other reason than the Nurburgring and the unrestricted zones, but one reason i suspect i'll never live there is that getting residency/citizenship in germany is a he
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
- The man can't do public speaking.
- He contradicts himself frequently
- He lies or is completely out to lunch about the "facts"
...
But of all his faults, his biggest is that he's too brash. The people who criticize him without too much reasoning often do so because they simply dislike the way that he pushes his "ideas" through.I don't dislike him for having ideas (though I don't like the majority of them), and I don't dislike him for being strong. But I do dislike him for the way he uses his power.
I liked Clinton, though to be brutally honest, he did a terrible job on most fronts. But he had a great way of making people feel good about what he was doing (or at least said he was going to do). When he pushed his weight around, it was all behind the scenes. Heck, Clinton was a better republican than either of the Bushes when it comes to cutting government spending and reducing aid programs.
GW just doesn't have finess. Very few of the "radical right" do.
This kind of politics may play well in some parts of the US, or even during spike periods (e.g. around elections and "hot-button" issues...though often on irrelevant issues)...but it often divides that country. And for "foreigners" (like me), it often pits many who would have little-to-no opinion of "Americans" to be rather upset with them.