10.4 on Display at FOSE

CmdrStone writes "Just thought I'd post to let people know that while at FOSE today in the Washington, D.C. Convention center I lingered at the Apple pavilion / booth. To my surprise every machine had 10.4 running. The build number matches the build number found on the rumor sites; 8A428. Does this presage Tiger hitting the shelves soon? Personally, my main interest was how much iSync was expanded to support more devices, phones, etc. The Apple rep confirmed that the number of devices has expanded. He lamented that his Symbian phone, the Nokia 9500 Communicator, still was not included in the supported phones. He did tell me that he was able to tether his Powerbook and get online via his 9500's T-Mobile connection."

Comments

Well...

[thundercatslair]

It did go gold about a week ago, so yes you should see it on store shelves soon.

Re:Well...

[CmdrStone]

Actually, every rep I spoke with, freely answered questions, except for the release date. The openly stated that all the computers they had on display were running 10.4. It occurs to me now the I did not as specifically if that included the XServes they had on display.

Re:Well...

[__aaxpkq8573]

Been 18 months since Panther was released. Maybe in Longhorn months that would be 6 months.

Re:Well...

[Baricom]

I *have* used Windows in the last six years (it's my primary platform until this computer breaks and I switch to a Mac) and the GP poster is absolutely correct. Each release adds more and more "features" designed to "protect users from piracy" by removing their control of their own computer.

Consider, for example, Product Activation, which Microsoft added in Windows XP. Now, not only do you have to pay Microsoft for the privilege of using their operating system, but you must also ask Microsoft permission each time you do so.

There are innumerable accounts of people who've had problems with Product Activation, but let's assume activation is flawless and that no legally-licensed Windows user will ever be flagged for activation. This February, Microsoft changed the rules, and all of a sudden, owners of an OEM edition of Windows (almost everybody) now have to call Microsoft EVERY TIME they reinstall their hard drive, and answer questions to prove they own (excuse me, _license_) the software they're trying to install. This "service" is a feature of Microsoft's Genuine Advantage program, but I don't see any advantage in being treated like a criminal.

Windows Media Player is also the subject of "enhancements" by Microsoft, and in June, 2002, Microsoft decided to add a new condition to Media Player's EULA with the patch for security bulletin MS02-032. Now, instead of consenting to updates to their computer, Microsoft gets to decide that Media Player updates "will be automatically downloaded onto your computer, [and] these security related updates may disable your ability to copy and/or play Secure Content and use other software on your computer."

Now, Longhorn will soon be released (eventually), and users will find that their computer is the subject of even more restrictions. Palladium was canceled for both PR and time constraint reasons (thank goodness), but make no mistake - Longhorn will have more "features" designed to take even more control from computer owners and put it in Microsoft's hands.

So, now what? Well, you'll no doubt tell me that we have the freedom to switch to Linux, but how free is it? Neither Dell nor the other PC manufacturers will sell me a computer with an empty hard drive at the same price as the bundled version, let alone cheaper. I should not have to pay for an unused copy of Windows (which Microsoft will not refund the cost of, in violation of THEIR OWN EULA), and I should not have to purchase my computer from a fly-by-night retailer who might not be around next year to honor my warranty.

Yes, Apple has their own problems with intellectual property ethics. For example, I have not and will not purchase music from the iTunes Music Store unless they remove DRM from the "bargain". However, at the moment, Apple is still mostly treating their customers right. Until iWork, for example, their was no such thing as typing in a serial number in an Apple product. I am concerned that Macromedia and Adobe are starting to implement activation on the Mac versions of their software, but there are FOSS alternatives that I can use.

I'm not an Apple troll - I've been using DOS and Windows for 15 years, and I used to ridicule Apple until OS X was released. I have no loyalties to any company - I will happily give my money to the companies that treat me as a valued, important customer, rather than a criminal.

Change is in the air. It started about the time Microsoft began demonizing the people who lined their pockets.

Re:Well...

[reidspice]

two things to point out:

1. there would be no itunes music store without drm because the record labels would never have agreed to it. so i guess either way you wouldn't be using it.

2. final cut pro has had some serious copy protection since its 1.0 release, long before iwork. quicktime pro and osx server also require a key.

Torrent, anybody?

[dirkdidit]

Anybody manage to make off with a hard drive from one of those Macs, image it and make a .torrent of it?

Re:Torrent, anybody?

[binder520]

This article points out that most of the Torrent sites are shying away from hosting a copy of Tiger in fear of lawsuits from Apple.

Re:Torrent, anybody?

[Anonymous Coward]

some sites such as macpirate.org are hosting a 8A425 torrent, which strikes me as a risky proposition

but you really should pre-order at amazon for $95 after rebate instead. that's $35 off. i'd prefer to wait for the final pressed cd

ac

Re:Torrent, anybody?

[jimbolaya]

If you are a college student or an educator, you can get Tiger at a discount. (If you aren't, make sure you know a student or educator!) For Panther, the edu discount price was $65; presumably, Tiger will be the same.

Re:Torrent, anybody?

[Monx]

I bought 10.1 when I was a student. In college, I had friends who would spend more than that in a few nights of drinking. I still have that 10.1 box. Their beers are long gone though.

Re:Torrent, anybody?

[capmilk]

I bet 10.1 still gives you headaches today. Their beers don't.

Tiger

[hunterx11]

Tyger! Tyger! burning bright In the forests of the night. What immortal hand or eye Could frame thy fearful final build?

Re:Tiger

[arodland]

That rhymes even worse than the original.

List of Devices?

[jmenezes]

Seeing as how I'm in the process of looking for a new phone, is there a list of soon-to-be supported devices?

Well...

[EvilStein]

The "rumour sites" have been saying that the recent build was going to be the GM... aaaaaand... WWDC *is* coming up. (June 6-10) AND Steve Jobs did say something about it being ready during the first half of 2005.

Coincidence? Maybe. :P Someone jumping the gun a bit and showing off 10.4 when they're probably not supposed to? Likely. ;)

connect via 9500's T-Mobile connection?

[sulli]

Let's hope he doesn't keep his contact list and amateur pr0n synced à la Paris Hilton.

FOSE is kind of like the GTC

[EvilStein]

GTC = Government Technology Conference, held around this time in Sacramento, CA.

Chances are, they're showcasing 10.4 to Government buyers. This is not uncommon, actually. I saw the iMac at the GTC expo months before the unit was available to the public. At that time, it was 1 of only 7 completed iMacs - Apple was more than happy to showcase it to the Government & Educational buyers.

Heck, Apple was showing 10.4 at booths at Macworld - why not? "Look what you can look forward to!" ;)

This just in..

[ShaniaTwain]

A product that is due to come out soon may be coming out soon. Stay tuned for updates.

Tiger timeline and iSync supported devices

[standards]

It isn't a surprise that Apple is now touting 10.4 (aka "Tiger") at the trade shows. It is very close to release - and although it has rumored to have "gone gold", its availability is still rumored to be several weeks away.

In terms of iSync, it has been rumored that it will be upgraded to support more devices, but the precise list has not been made available. Hopefully device manufacturers are smart enough to get their (favored) phones represented in the list of devices they sell... but clearly, some manufacturers are sunsetting a bunch of devices - and so the financial advantage of iSync support for end-of-life products is dubious.

I was at FOSE too....

[CajunArson]

And Tiger was on display. Although the Apple guys were tight lipped about whether it was official or not (don't fire anyone Steve they didn't spill the beans!)
Even more interesting from my perspective was that from the talks I had with them, their server line and the X-raid stuff is starting to garner a lot more interest in government areas that were previously closed to anything related to Apple. I'd seen their stuff online, but once you get to see it first-hand and see the prices it's difficult to see why this stuff is so freakin' cool.

Re:I was at FOSE too....

[CajunArson]

AAAGGGH!!! Ok... last line....
it's not difficult to see why this stuff is so freakin' cool

Long day walking the floor at FOSE

List of devices that will work with iSync?

[SteelV]

I want to get a power book as soon as tiger comes out on them (probably not for a few months, regardless). Is there some way to find out what devices are supported, so I can make sure to get a cellphone that is? Also, if i got a cell phone with a 128 meg card like this one (motorola E398), will I be able to back up many of my text documents (as in almost all of them, up to the storage capacity) using iSync to the phone, or just contact info?

Thanks.

Re:List of devices that will work with iSync?

[Psychic Burrito]

List of compatible iSync devices. Currently addresses version 10.3, but wait until 10.4 is out and the list will prolly be updated immeditately.

Cheers!

OS X Liger

[Absentminded-Artist]

Rumor Site: What the next OS you're releasing? Apple: OS X Liger. Rumor Site: What's a liger? Apple: It's pretty much our favorite OS. It's like Panther and Tiger mixed... bred for its skills in magic. Rumor Site: Oooooh

Re:OS X Liger

[emilymildew]

Go see Napoleon Dynamite. GP was making a joke, ya dweeb.

Re:OS X Liger

[Ohreally_factor]

Are you honestly trying to tell us that this doesn't have magical powers? Wait until it stalks you in stealth mode.

What I would like to see in iSync

[RatBastard]

You know what I'd like to see supported with iSync? Plain old USB thumb/jump/key/etc... drives.

Re:What I would like to see in iSync

[As Seen On TV]

That's a good idea. You're basically asking for sync-to-file. You should submit it as a feature request. I'll check Radar in a couple of days (making myself an iCal to-do as we speak) and if it's not in there, I'll add it myself.

Re:Any Comment on Release Date

[CmdrStone]

The rep is the one that showed me the build number. In the classic, wink - wink, nudge - nudge, say no more - say no more, type fashion.

He was standing beside me when I clicked on the "About this Mac" option which showed the 10.4. I said out loud, "Cool it has Tiger!" He then took the mouse and did something to have the About This Mac box show the build number.

I'm sure someone out there knows how to show the build number with / instead of the version number. I don't remember if the version number was displaying at the same time as the build number after the rep. I just distinctly remember the build number and the big smile on his face.

Acronyms by osmosis?

[michaeldot]

How are people supposed to "just know" the acronyms that pop up?

I didn't have a clue what FOSE stood for. I clicked the link to its home page, and not once is it defined there.

A quick Google search fixed this (FOSE - Federal Office Systems Exposition) but really: are things like this so commonly known that they don't need to be defined?

Re:Any Comment on Release Date

[clarkcox3]

I'm sure someone out there knows how to show the build number with / instead of the version number. I don't remember if the version number was displaying at the same time as the build number after the rep. I just distinctly remember the build number and the big smile on his face.

Just click on the version number in the About box, and it will switch to the build number; click again, and it'll display the serial number.

What's the Hold Up?

[buckhead_buddy]

If Apple's internal teams have gone final (and that's a big IF) it's not uncommon for a release to still be waiting on:

• notification of changes in code licensed from a vendor or third-party
• a multiple week soak time after the code freeze to discover bugs (eat your own dog food for a while)
• exhaustive documentation of the final changes (both to users and developers)

Even if all of this has been finalized as the rumors indicate, there are still other reasons why a release would be delayed after going final, including:

• Finding the best marketing opportunity to make the introduction (which I know little of).
• Ensuring that one's unfinished hardware has only expected problems and incompatabilities (if any at all).
• Letting the application teams (Final Cut, iWork, iLife, etc) get their work fully compliant before release (the market does have higher expectations for Apple authored apps).

While the Mac rumor sites have been speculating on an early release of Tiger since it was announced last June, I don't think that their rumor-mongering does anything to speed up its release and quite possibly:

• delays distribution of the gold master to developers.
• delays the public announcement until Apple is seen as the one setting the expectations rather than the rumor sites.
• makes open discussion of releases beyond Tiger even more secretive.

Personally, I'm still running Panther. I've got a backup plan, blank media, and a time estimate of about 3 days downtime needed to transition to Tiger and test my setup once it comes out. Beyond that, I've made no plans that depend on an unreleased or rumored feature. I'm anxious for that release date to get here, but I'm prepared as well as I can whether that date is tomorrow or June 30th.

Re:What's the Hold Up?

[buckhead_buddy]

Three days is the total time I can be without my Mac if something goes horribly wrong with a peripheral or app that I can't live without. I hope the upgrade to Tiger will go without a hitch, but I'm planning for disaster in case something like my Internet router upgrades itself to incompatible firmware or my printer stops working and it has to be set up to print via a Windows box.

The time for the backup, clean install, reinstall of apps, reconfiguring of prefs is about a half day. The extra time is so that I can:

• Run some tests to make sure everything is working.
• Troubleshoot a malfunctioning app or peripheral under Tiger.
• Restore Panther system from backup and migrate work from Tiger.
• Purchase replacement app / device if still broken

This also allows for the runarounds I'm bound to get from support helplines who aren't ready to support their products on Tiger yet. (Not that tech support is wonderfully responsive when they are prepared.)

In those situations, I really don't want to be facing a deadline or hostile customer during the first three days of a Tiger install so I just make sure I have that extra time just in case... And if I happen to have a trouble-free upgrade, then I'll have a couple of days to play around and be completely unproductive while I play around and get accustomed to the new install :-)

Well, it would be nice if Apple fixed...

[meme_police]

...thisbefore allowing their vendors to add more crappy conduits and then taking forever to fix their old root exploitable ones.

Re:Torrent Roar!

[fuct_onion]

++ vote for 'Liger'!...

Deb: "What are you drawing?"
Napoleon: "A Liger"
Deb: "What's a Liger?"
Napoleon: "It's probably my favorite animal. It's a cross between a lion and tiger. It's bred for its skills in magic."

FTE with DOS

[LPetrazickis]

So... would being an FTE with DOS make you a Frickin' Teledildonics Engineer with the Department of Sex? Or a Faster-Than-Everything with Denial-of-Service? I am not really clear on that point.

I know people are jackasses about....

[AvantLegion]

... acronyms and missing info in titles, and usually they're just being tools. But for this story, I think it would help to say "Mac OS X 10.4" instead of just "10.4". At least it had the "Apple: " part prefixing it.

Re:Just speed up the GUI for christ's sake...

[aanantha]

They did. Tiger introduces Quartz 2D Extreme. You just need a card that with fragment and vertex shading (aka DirectX 9 capable in the Windows world). Information about it here:

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/ 8300945231/m/886008328631/r/886008328631/

And don't knock Spotlight until you've tried it. You don't like instantaneous searching?

Going all the way

[SuperKendall]

If you're going to change it, might as well finish it off:


Tyger! Tyger! Burning Gold
In the burners to be sold.
What immortal slot or tray
Could load thee come time for GA?

In what distant road or skies,
Might come the discs that makes search fly?
On what wings to us do speed,
A Dashboard to hold small things we need?

And what shoulder and what art,
Can automate the things that aren't?
Why it's Automator - pretty sweet!
Should I buy it? In a beat!


As you can tell by the last verse it's about time for me to give up :-)

Um.

[Onan]

So your point is that Apple is making more progress more quickly than any other OS vendor you can name, frequently giving us the choice to upgrade to improved features, speed, security, and stability... and you for some reason feel that people would be upset by this?

Oh, I guess maybe you mean users of all non-Apple OSs. Yeah, I suppose they do have a pretty damn good reason to be grumpy.

Re:Sharing internet to Bluetooth still does not wo

[As Seen On TV]

Have you gotten a good answer on this yet? From skimming it looks like you haven't. Let me help.

Internet sharing on the Mac works through DHCP. When you turn on Internet sharing on a given interface, an instance of the DHCP server is launched bound to that interface and the kernel is configured to route packets from that interface to the default route.

Bluetooth doesn't work like that. There's no IP-over-Bluetooth. Instead, Bluetooth works like a serial port. While yes, you can certainly shuttle IP over serial using PPP, that's not how the Mac's Internet sharing works.

Why not? Because exactly zero people have submitted feature requests. At this point, the feature list for Mac OS X is so deep, a feature has to be requested by tens of thousands of people before it bubbles up to the top.

So if you get together with 19,999 of your closest friends and submit requests to Radar, I'm sure we'll get right on it.

I know this sounds elitist, but the bottom line is that we only have so many programmers. They can't scratch every user's every itch. If we tried ... well, frankly, we'd be shipping a product with tons of bugs, no documentation and zero user experience. There are already products like that out there. Lots of people like them. Maybe one would be better for you.

Re:Yey for Tiger!

[wootest]

Rich.

The features the summary is toting is the acceptance of more phones *specifically* in the *sync* solution in OS X. You can still *connect* with any phone over bluetooth just as easily as you can on Windows, and probably sync as well because an open standard (SyncML) is used.

release date?

[gphinch]

Well I preordered Tiger from Amazon.com ($35 mail-in rebate and another $30 off for getting an Amazon Visa, how could I say no at that price) and on my invoice the shipping date is "between May 31, 2005 and May 31, 2005"

The cat's out of the bag?