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S. Korea Considers Using Armed Robots Along DMZ
Slicker writes "S. Korea and N. Korea (aka the ROK and DPRK, respectively) share the most heavily fortified border that has ever existed. Now the ROK is considering deployment of armed robots." Not expected until sometime in the 2010s. From the article: "Robots with weapons mounted on their frames are each expected to be able to observe from 2 and 1 kilometers during the day and night, respectively, and will have the capability to record voices and take pictures in a 180-degree circle."
From the article:
Remote-control sounds fine, but automatically? Do we have software capable of reliably distingushing between a civilian and an enemy combatant (at least as well as a human soldier can, anyway...)?
Doesn't sound like the best of ideas. Also from the article:
Seems to me that the South Koreans might be better off upgrading their fences and perimeters (proven technology) than putting their faith in autonomous killer robots (unproven, scary, incredibly risky sci-fi technology).
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
"The battles of the future will not be fought on a battleground or at sea, they will be fought in space. Or at the top of a very tall mountain. In either case, most of the actual fighting will be done by small robots. And as you go forward today, your duty is clear, to build and maintain those robots. Thank you."
You can't handle the truth.
"will have the capability to record voices and take pictures in a 180-degree circle."
Screw the armed robots, I just wanna see how they pulled this off!
Maybe they'll have robots in place by then, but it's more likely that Kim Jong Il will be dead or missing and the south won't have to worry about the north... Then again, who knows...
All the torrents you could want.
Johnny Five unavailable for comment.
Was anyone else really hoping that they'd look something like ED-209?
quote......Robots with weapons mounted on their frames...
Robot:YOU have 20 seconds to comply
man: "What the!?!? But wait... I'm friendly..."
Robot:YOU have 15 seconds to comply
man: $&$&#%!!!!! Okay okay I have my hands up
Robot:YOU have 10 seconds to comply
man: TURN IT OFF!!!
Robot:5,4,3...
The DMZ is a wildlife paradise --- hopefully the wildlife is not extinguished by armedbots because the wildlife merely moves throughout the DMZ. I would like to see the armedbots recognize the difference between human and animal before going robocop.
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
... but I wonder if sharks with laser beams attached to their heads wouldn't be an ideal device along armed robots to guard the coasts while robots care of the land.
A better bet is that by 2010, the principal problem on the Korean peninsula will not be the brittle truce between the two regimes, but the economic crisis caused by South Korea inheriting the crumbling husk to their north. That's a lot of mouths to feed.
Those robots, assuming the project isn't abandoned, will more likely be guarding the border with China instead.
"OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"
I wonder how the 'social ethics' warfare will be effected by using autonomous robotic soldiers.
On one hand the people of a country using such robots could become less apposed to using military force against another country. That is, no longer will your son/daughter/friends be put in harms way.
However, for the people in the country being attacked, such machines would probably be seen as monstrous cold killing machines. Something that accidentally below away your 6 year old since it confused him/her for an enemy combatant.
You might be joking, or you might be serious, but let me take a stand for a minute and ask a serious question: Why is that the only thing that matters to you? And, please, if you're going to reply with "LOL OMG BSOD WILL KILL SOMEONE ROFL," save yourself the trouble and refrain from doing so. I'm very curious why you, and a number of other people, think that the only thing important is if a piece of technology runs Linux or not.
Remote-control sounds fine, but automatically? Do we have software capable of reliably distingushing between a civilian and an enemy combatant (at least as well as a human soldier can, anyway...)?
Well, no, but that wouldn't be necessary. I'm sure the robots would use some form of Identification Friend or Foe [IFF] method. I'm not saying those arne't foolproof but that doesn't really require any type of automatic target recognition (ATR) or image recognition software.
Note, I'm not saying that IFF makes these robots a great idea. I'm just pointing out that the idea isn't completely idiotic.
GMD
watch this
That would be the robots in Iraq were tested with those weapons. By us. This is merely part of what gave S. Korea the idea to use robots themselves.
"It takes a very long time to count to 2 in binary." ~'Fourlegged'
I dunno... If I had an army of killer robots, I think a lot of people would learn to cooperate with me.
How are they going to push anybody down from 2 miles away?
Fnord.
Now I am aware of how hostile those two nations are but I mean comon, once both sides have robots, what next?
Bigger robots
D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
...South Korean Zergling Rush?
Eh.
So basically the options are:
a surpise all or nothing submarine launched premtive all out nuclear strike on all North Korean assets. The fallout from which will kill at least tens of thousands koreans, and chinese.
wait for north korea to start a war out of desperation
Peace, the price of which is essentially writing off the more or less innocent but indoctrinated North Korean populace.
South Koreans don't have time to build robots, every single one of them is sitting in front of a PC clicking 100,000 times per second to become a starcraft champion.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Here is a link that describes the Talon robot and the SWORDS project a little more.
Oh wait, they are.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Anything that will ease tensions between North and South Korea is fine with me.
I think killer robot patrols are a great start, personally.
EMP works well against electronics, but NOT as well as oceans 11 makes people believe :)
To make a long story short: If the robots are even lightly shielded against emp, you would need to bring it so close that you could just use a normal bomb and get similar results.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
"The robots will be remote controlled," said the South Korean ministry of defense. "Thus allowing for operational efficiencies far beyond what is possible today."
A reporter raises his hand. "You mean, you're setting up remote call centers?"
"Yes, we're outsourcing to China. There, thousands of workers costing us just pennies a day will patrol our borders with giant armed robots, thus fulfilling our defense needs and the needs of the Chinese population as expressed through their arts and animation."
"Any word on the North Korean Reaction?"
"Yes, and this brings better news." interjects the Ministry of Finance. "North Korea has decided to setup their own robot army and, being years behind everyone else, has decided to outsource to us for their remote defense needs. Now we could simply take their billions of pounds of rice and make a tidy profit," said the Ministry of Finance, "but South Korea is the most advanced nation in the world. We have decided to setup an online community of people willing to pay for the priviledge of protecting a theoretical Kingdom from invading barbarians, inside of a communial, multiplayer environment."
"A Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game?"
"Yes, a MMPORPG. A MMPORPG so grand it will make Lineage look like Everquest."
Everyone in the room laughs, except for the American who looks confused.
"And you too for just 15 dollars a month can be the last line of defense against a rampaging horde of demons. They're very expensive demons, funded by Satan himself. Demons who want to ravage your women, kill your pets, and give you low-paying jobs without benefits while preventing unionization.
"As border skirmishes are rare, won't this game be incredibly boring?"
"People pay to play Star Wars Galaxies, don't they?"
The ______ Agenda
What they really need is a bunch of Bender units instead. Everyone might learn to lighten up a bit over there...
When the North has come
And they're threatening Seoul
And the States are the ony hope we see
No, I won't be afraid
Oh, I won't be afraid
Standing here, on my side of the
D-M-Z, so
* Robot, robot D-M-Z
By the D-M-Z
Oh D, D-M-Z, D-M-Z
'caus we know how much more effective fences & robots are against Nuclear weapons. :)
Some of the fences have rocks stuck into gaps, so that if the fence is bumped they will be dislodged and show possible intrusion. But there are no electric fences, nor electronic sensors and surveillance cameras. The ministry will discuss with defense-related research and operational commanders how to develop the new programs and will earmark budget funds for the programs in 2006.
Do you really think China would continue to prop up the US dollar and fund America's war machine if we pissed them off? China would kick our American asses back into the great depression for thinking about it. Considering America is:
- $8 Trillion dollars in debt
- Dependent on foreign loans, primarily from China and Japan because our leadership can't balance a f'ing checkbook
- Dependent on China/Korea/Tiawan to manufacture all our fancy electronics, cloths, consumer goods, and well... everything else
Then yes, I do think N. Korea will continue unhindered by American interference.'Student' is one of those slippery words, when it comes to underground political organizations.
If a journalist had walked up to, for instance, the 'students' who occupied the US Embassy in Iran back in the day and asked what said 'students' were studying that quarter, there would have been some blank stares.
I've been around some of those 'student' political activists on US campuses. I'm certain some of the other people reading this have seen them at work as well.
The south Korean government is NOT dealing with 'students that want some change.' They're dealing the the same hardened cadre of Pied Pipers that blights the rest of the world's campuses. Just a more militant flavor.
I know this is a technology centric website but let me say, as someone who has worked in the military with pretty high-tech gear, you guys are overestimating military technology. Some of you out there might say "But I seen military technology work all the time." Well that's nice, but I've seen how the triumvirate of scientist/engineer contractors, military officers and shitty technology can come together to make a terrible economic and time wasting mess.
I state the overestimation for a number of cynical reasons:
1. A lot of military technology doesn't get tested in warlike situations or complex terrain and when the technology is put into 'war-like' operations or complex terrain it doesn't live up to its hype. Bureaucracy also plays a part in slowing down projects and making them unrealistic.
2. Hyping the machine. This is what military officers and the contractors do. They hype up the technology to whole new bullshitting levels. The officers do it for their promotions and careers and the contractors do it for the money.
The terminator scenario won't happen for a very very long time.
One problem though. N. Korea is not democratic. So the power of the entire country and it's militery might is in the hands of a few people.
/British/Italian/etc. people not wanting military used against Iraq (for example)? Get real, in democracy is military also in control of few people. You don't put top generals in place if they're not "your men". Anywhere.
I always wanted to understand something.
What is the difference of N. Korean people not wanting military to be used against S. Korea (for example), and Spanish
What does democracy have to do with it, when in democracy it all takes one prime minister to decide military goes to Iraq - and thing is done.
No need. Any anti-tank weapon made in last 50 years will do the job. For example, PTRS (designed in 1941) fired a steel-cored 14.5 mm round from a five-round box magazine and could penetrate 25 mm armor at 500 meters. Modern weapons are much more powerful, but even with that PTRS, what is the chance that the robot will recognize a green-painted and green-clothed soldier laying in grass 500 meters away? And what is the chance that the robot wears 25mm armor?
You know that Berlin Wall had remote-controlled and/or automated machine guns? This development has deeper roots than one would think.
Agreed. Perhaps many Slashdot readers don't really understand what the DMZ is like. In the 1980s and 90s, live ambushes were a fact of life along the DMZ (they may still be, but I'm no longer in the Army so I don't have inside info about it). The North Koreans for decades have poked and prodded the border: They've sent infiltrators into South Korea, have created elaborate tunnel systems below the DMZ, and attempted to assassinate the South Korean president, among other provocations. Troops stationed along the DMZ for good reason keep an extraordinarily high state of readiness. Over 100 Americans have died along the DMZ since the armstice (I don't have figures for South Korean soldiers).
So while from the comfort of Ft. Livingroom, it's easy to say that using armed robots to patrol the DMZ is a bad idea, the soldiers on the ground are probably pretty happy about the notion. That's not to say that the robots will work as advertised, or that they should replace existing defenses. The South Korean government may be motivated by cost considerations, but if the end result is that fewer South Korean soldiers are likely to die in the line of duty, it seems worth trying out some form of automated defense.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hi roshima_and_Nagasaki
Others contend that Japan had been trying to surrender for at least two months, but the US refused by insisting on an unconditional surrender--which they did not get even after the bombing, the bone of contention being retention of the Emperor.[13] (http://www.nuclearfiles.org/hitimeline/1945.html) In fact, while several diplomats favored surrender, the leaders of the Japanese military were committed to fighting a 'Decisive Battle' on Kyushu, hoping that they could negotiate better terms for an armistice afterward--all of which the Americans knew from reading decrypted Japanese communications. The Japanese government never did decide what terms, beyond preservation of an imperial system, they would have accepted to end the war; as late as August 9, the Supreme Council was still split, with the hardliners insisting Japan should demobilize its own forces, no war crimes trials, and no occupation. Only the direct intervention of the Emperor ended the dispute, and even after that a military coup was attempted to prevent the surrender (although it was easily suppressed).
Actually if I were the South Korean's I would do this. You have a buit in test site. You have a incredible industry. You have a business opportunity! You now get the 5 tigers into the arms business and further diferenterate yourself from the Chinese. And who in North Korea (or for that matter South Korea) can complain!
Honda, Sony look out!
Vista, the single biggest argument for Desktop Linux! It doesn't "Just Work"(TM).
The new generation of South Koreans are f---ing whiny ingrates. The US should be completely off the Korean peninsula, with a nuclear umbrella treaty. The US presence is only a small percentage of the force anyway, and all I ever hear is the Euro-style whining about it. Pull back and redeploy.
Same goes for Germany and Okinawa too.