Slashdot Mirror
Bezos Patents Information Exchange
theodp writes "Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos was handed a patent Tuesday for Information exchange between users of different web pages. Tough to tell what exactly it might cover ('various modifications may be made without deviating from the spirit and scope of the invention'), although RSS Newsreaders, TrackBacks, and Google News come to mind. Elements of Bezos' invention may evoke a sense of deja vu in those who used Third Voice or the Annotation Engine."
Is it time to re-institute the boycott?
ABSTRACT OF THE PATENT:
A method and system for allowing users of different web pages to exchange information. The information exchange system identifies groups of related web pages and maintains a database of user-supplied information for each group of related web pages. When a user accesses a web page, the information exchange often displays in a separate area the information associated with the group of related web pages. Also, the information exchange system allows the user to enter information that will be displayed to other users who access related web pages.
Note the prevalence of 'user-supplied'. From my interpretation, it's just a system that allows users to provide information about a category of 'related' web pages, and for that to show up.
Sounds suspiciously like Wikipedia to me.
and then hire about 5000 very well paid lawyers ...
if you want to dispute the Patent.
Maybe we should admit that the software Patent concept is just wrong?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Can you patent the concept of getting idiotic and vague patents on computer concepts?
Oh wait, too much prior art.
I patent kicking Jeff Bezos in the nuts.. oh no, wait, I'd want anyone to be free to do that in an unrestricted, royalty free fashion....
The revolution will not be televised. It won't be on a friggin blog either
Clearly, this is an attempt to patent information transfer of an absurdly ordinary kind and we should all run around in circles of indignation without reading the actual patent or having any context whatsoever for the headline, which is as usual inflammatory.
I can't believe he's trying to patent all forms of information transfer on the internet! This is absurd and an example of why IP is wrong or its application corrupt!
xkcd.com - a webcomic of mathematics, love, and language.
...the information exchange system provides a client-side component and a server-side component. The client-side component executes on a user's computer, and the server-side component executes on an information exchange computer. The client-side component, which may be a browser plug-in, a proxy server, or other type of program, monitors a user's access to web pages. When a web page is accessed...
Does that not make you want to retch? Legitimizing spyware with patents.
At least one can be fairly confident it won't "plug-in" to things not Windows.
Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
Great how this software does not discuss where it comes into play..
Assumingly through a proxy, or web portal software...
But if it integrates into IE, Opera, Firefox, or whatever... which one will be chosen... Will there be a monopoly on Inter user exchange of data? Oh my!
------------
Sase
"It's the opposite of that."
Isn't amazing that he has time to run Amazon and invent RSS newsreaders, Trackbacks and Google News!
At first glance, this appears to cover any sort of web-based forum, such as Slashdot. At least ones that allow users to post comments vieweable by other users.
/. may be their primary target :-)
Then again,
I'll have to sit down and read over the 3 primary claims again (1,9,16), but I'll bet this thing's got P.A. all over it. Especially since they only cited *2* references, and thiese ideas have been out there for quite a while.
Sounds suspiciously like Wikipedia to me.
or like del.icio.us or any other tag based link manager.
Starsucks
Luser CEO attitude re-adjustment tool (LCART)(pat. pend.)
and
Luser Patent Examiner attitude re-adjustment tool (LPEART) (pat. pend.)
Using this patent as proof that neither innovation has an example of a effectively deployed prior art. I will of course licence such devices to any indivdual as long as he demonstrates a willingness to use them in the field.
Items used by the much deserving recipents of adjustment to shield themselves will be punished for the use of circumvention devices to the full extent of the law, followed by further adjustment.
I followed Bezos freshmen year for an research writing class since I was researching Tech Patent law. I can safely say that Bezos is just a pure PR whore when it comes to patents, his current patents have various issues and are very over-generalized. I've yet to fully read through this one but it appears no different. When he originally took heat he started a group to "revolutionize" the tech patent industry, where people who find prior art to bad patents would be rewarded. Of course he put up Amazons patents up for prize money, and when people started to come in with information as prior art, he claimed that they were "too different" and shut down completely. The contact information and phone number has been obsolete/cut off for years.
I understand the need to complain about the patents that are issued over software in the US, but let me ask a question. Has anyone thought that articles such as this might later be used as evidence that OSS programmers should have been aware of the existence of the patent, and set them up for the triple damages provision of patent law?
Just a thought.
You say
When is Amazon going to learn that aggregation of patents is not the way to win over the hearts of the masses? When will amazon officially go evil on us and start reporting on our usage information?!? waahh
One of the things I've noticed on these software patents is that they often list the CEO of the company as one of the inventors. While that may be true some of the time, I wonder if Bezos is *really* one of the inventors of this technology under the definitons of US patent law.
It is an important point, becuase NOT having the correct inventors is one of the ways a patent can be ruled invalid or fraudulent (which I forget) in court.
This patent covers a novel invention for ultra-high bandwidth full duplex data transfer.
This invention comprises of the following components:
Carrier medium; a level, rigid surface no less than 8.0 meters wide. The exemplar is black bitumen.
Duplex Facilitation Indicator; a parallel strip of material (paint is used for the exemplar) of width 100.0 millimeters spaced 100.0 millimeters apart placed in the geometric centre of the carrier medium. Colour must be suffiently different to the carrier medium as to be easily visible to the human eye at a distance of 20.0 meters, the exemplar is yellow.
Data Packet; 1972 Ford XC Station Wagon containing no less than 10,000 Dual Layer DVD+RW.
The implementation of....
well, much as the joke should be funny, the sad fact that; properly gussied up by a patent attorney or, as I like to call them, waste of perfectly good oxygen; this would probably be granted a patent leads me to the inevetable conclusion that the patent system is permanently broken, being as it was intended to FACILITATE competition and progress, not stifle same.
That and we have continuing proof of the universe's phenomenal ability to produce bigger and better idiots.
err!
jak
That way, whenever anybody in the world kicks somebody in the nuts, they also have to kick Jeff as well.
I have been using /. for years and this is the first time I've posted a "mod parent up" post. Holy crap. It almost made me force liquid through my nose.
- Greg
Start a happiness pandemic
I mean, Bezos is a nice guy and all, but we used to do an equivalent thing with teletypes in the 1960's, for crying out loud. Geez, the USPO sucks.
-
Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning has been granted a patent on the transfer of an object from one person to another (with or without a gap in time during which the object is in the possession of neither person).
-
Cyclist Lance Armstrong has been granted three (3) patents:
-
Transportation of a human being via self-propelled vehicle with multiple circular suspension devices
-
Winning the Tour de France
-
Raising money by selling inexpensive but unique items of adornment
-
Mohatma Gandhi has been granted a patent for thwarting the plans of far-flung empires and changing the course of history by doing nothing
-
The editors of Slashdot have been granted a patent on the use of web site to disseminate the same information several times a week
(Sorry about that last one).Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
Lemme see, whatda think, maybe he just really needs even more money? But, heya, if he's such a hot businessman, why does he act so completely unethical?
Jeff, I just want to personally thank you for abusing, corrupting and perverting the public's due process. You should just be so damned proud of yourself. You're clearly a perfect and shining example of America's elite.
IMHE, most rich people are completely evil.
More to the point, though, I seem to recall on numerous occasiona that Bezos has argued against certain types of patents and for patent reform. His justification for most of these patents is to get the patent filed before someone else does and then tries to extort Amazon. Essentially, he claims to be filing as a defensive measure, not offensive.
I could have a very bad memory, but except for the "one-click" patent, I can't recall another patent Amazon has actively enforced.
- Greg
Start a happiness pandemic
I don't care if this is just the abstract.
The point here is simple, and universal. Web technology allows people many degrees of freedom in applying it in many different ways --- that's what makes it so useful. Nobody has any right to cut out a portion of that freedom and proclaim that it belongs to them. Period.
Reading Patents 101:
There are 3 independent claims, 1, 9 and 16. They are reproduced below. Forget about all of the flowery language in the description. The claims are what determines what the patent holder can prevent others from doing. If Bezos & Co. decides to enforce this patent, they would have to prove that the accused infringer is practicing EVERY ELEMENT of at least one of the claims. I will leave it to others to comment on how difficult that would be.
The claims are:
1. A method in a computer system for exchanging information between users of web sites, the method comprising:
providing a mapping between a first web site and a second web site;
when a first user accesses the first web site,
providing a web page of the first web site;
receiving information from the first user; and
storing the received information based on the provided mapping; and
when a second user accesses the second web site,
providing a web page of the second web site;
retrieving the stored information based on the provided mapping; and
providing a display of the retrieved information so that the first and second users can exchange information.
9. A method in a computer system for controlling the exchange of information between users of web pages, the method comprising:
receiving an indication of a web page from a first user computer;
retrieving the web page from a first web server;
sending the retrieved web page to the first user computer;
retrieving information associated with the web page, the retrieved information having been previously received from second user computer when accessing a web page of a second web server; and
sending the retrieved information to the first user computer.
16. A method in a computer system for accessing information associated with a web page, the method comprising:
sending a request for a first web page; and
in response to sending the request,
receiving the first web page; and
receiving information associated with the first web page, the information being previously entered by a user when accessing a second web page, the information having been entered separately from the second web page.
I mean there are so many stupid/unfair/vague software patents out there, does anybody really need to take them seriously? Can't some ambitious lawyers come up with a way to show the absolute ridiculousness of software patents and get the courts to rule them ALL null and void?
Meh.
What? To pass any sane definition of "innovative", I was expecting something filed in the 1990s. It is hard to decide which test this patent should fail first. It is both fairly obvious and has ample prior art for most of what is described.
...since the wording is so general (not particularly exhaustive or definitive):
Passport.net
Google (Ads)
Any webring
Certain social networks/blogs
I think the lawyers are going to have a field day with this one.
To an extent, the people locked in the game are almost, but not quite, the victims. You can't reasonably say fsckit I'm not playing the patent game any longer - the others would be onto you like a pack of hungry street dogs attacking a weakened comrade. The USPTO loves the fact that they're processing heaps of patents and generating nice revenue. It makes them look powerful and important. Like the arms race, the only people that won out of it were the arms suppliers - not the recers themselves.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
everybody start violating them and completely ignoring them. they can't sue everybody. right?
Meh.
... the invalidation of the USPTO.
Value is only given to a government body because the people have agreed upon it.
Read the declaration if Independance.... for the first time....
Perhaps it needs to be written again but with current examples of government abuse of the people.
The patent is more about system that allows meta-information for pages. Like a system to comment on /. and if we both have the application I can read your comments. *NOT* thinks like RSS.
It is still a sorta silly patent.
With the mention of both Third Voice and the Annotation Engine, I'm surprised the somewhat more standard (or at least endorsed by the W3C) Annotea wasn't referenced.
Besides having native support in Amaya, there's a plug-in being actively developed for the Mozilla family of browsers.
I'm going to patent the word patent. And if I can't patent that one then I'll patent Trademark. And if that one doesn't work, I'll patent Copyright. Wait..you mean that is a STUPID idea?
I'm not a troll, but I play one on Slashdot.
continues to be completely out to lunch. What a waste of everyones time. Someone really has to sort them out. The patents they issue are neither novel (the 'prior art' condition, for one is a farce) nor enforceable. And what about when a couple of companies gang up to extend a patent well beyond it's expiration date (see http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000AF01 8-31CA-1FFB-B1CA83414B7F0000)
I mean either issue meaningful, enforceable patents that are less specious (and hence harder targets for legal challenges) or just call a spade a spade: the bigger guys get to keep their ideas while the new kids are S.O.L.
I urge anyone who thinks I'm exagerating to take a look periodically at the "Staking Claims" columns in SciAm. Better yet, talk to someone who works at the USPO.
=======
Science -- Sealed, Delivered.
I think before patents are granted, the process needs one more step added to it. PUBLIC REVIEW. If the public can find prior art or can somehow vote that it is too obvious, cannot be created or is in some way "bullshit" then the public should be able to reject the application before it is put into place.
..."Bozos Patent Information Exchange"?
Just an aside:
I took a two hour patent tutorial today on Patent Prosecution. One thing I didn't realize is that the burden of proof is on the Examiner to prove why an application shouldn't be a patent - not on the inventor to prove why it should be a patent. The laws govening why something shouldn't be a patent are actually quite simple - however interpretation of these laws have kept patent lawyers happy for many years.
Didn't Mr. Bezos come forth after that wonderfully innovative "one-click" patent and so much as state that the patent process was in need of reform?
As this perspicasious poster notes, you have to violate each provision of the claim. To give an example,claim one provides for
" a mapping between a first web site and a second web site"
so, if you had a mapping between a first web site and a second web site and a third web site , and users interacted with the first and third, you would not violate the patent (i think - computer patents are not an area of expertise for me)
from this u shd learn 2 things
patents are legal documents, and have to be read very carefully,
and not all patents are valuable; if there is some simple way around the claim, then the patent is worthless
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030301& mode=classic
patent = Patents.find_by_number 6889250
puts "patent #{patent.number} is held by:"
puts patent.holder.last_name.sub('e','o').chop
amazon is patenting sharing ideas and information.
whooo, that's a blockbuster app! just imagine what the world would be like if this had ever been done before!
totally awesome! I wonder what stock analysts would recommend I do about this, but of course they would never tell anybody. it's never been done, and now it could violate a patent.
damn, what wonders occur these days...
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
a share and recommendation system to me.
But then, it's ambiguous (intentionally I'm sure) and could apply to just about anything, including web logs.
R(k)
Has anybody patented posting text to the www yet?
I have a feeling I owe somebody a nickel...
All the torrents you could want.
Does anyone else see this getting shot down as prior art in court?
Remember folks, slashdot doesn't have a -1 "disagree" moderation!
Ummm, is it me, or does this sound just like instant messaging via web pages. Say through applets connected to a central server.
"For instance, if I go to MicroWarehouse.com's home page, then click on the Z, it tells me information about the Palm V, one of the products listed on the page. I'm shown places to buy it and related products, as submitted by other zBubbles users."
/ 2167641/ s &btnG=Search/
http://searchenginewatch.com/sereport/article.php
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=z-bubble
- a corporation takes money from a customer,
- smears the money with fecal matter from various officers of the corporation,
- rubs the money in the customer's face,
- and then deposits money into bank account when all fecal matter has been transfered to customer's face.
If I patented this, maybe companies would stop doing this to us. Although I guess there already is plenty of prior art.a funny chapter on patents/open source from the novel autumn rangers
SILICON VIRTUE
The alarm interrupted the Geeks' game of Quake and brought Tucker running into the control room from his office.
"It's Ranger's signature attack," Geek1 said. "He's scrambling it, but it's him." Geek1 was what everyone called him.
"Impossible," Tucker said. "Ranger's dead."
"It's him." APRIL said. "He's alive."
In a Cold War weapons lab a mile deep in Doom Mountain, Tucker Johnson's frown was bathed in APRIL's soft blue glow. He looked at her through double-pained, bullet-proof glass. Her biosilicon computers had grown to fill four seven-foot racks, networked with billions of nano-fiberoptics she herself had designed. Somebody had just hacked into her deeper soul.
As the CEO of Silicon Virtue, Tucker presided over a team of master Geeks at the bridge and an army of slave Geeks manning cubicles on a vast floor behind them. Behind them sat the legions of patent lawyers patenting any and every aspect of APRIL that might or might not be, using the random patent-claims generator software APRIL invented to bolster patent production. Tucker would outsource their jobs to India and Asia soon enough, but they needed to get off the runway asap to close the next round of venture funding. Silicon Virtue, founded upon the APRIL (Artistic Psyche-Robotics Interface) technology invented by Ranger, was seven months old. They had to hack or reverse-engineer the source code to her deeper soul, or there'd be no IPO.
"We could Open Source APRIL and get the hacker community to reverse-engineer her." Tucker said. "Would that speed it up?"
"Definitely. We should Open Source APRIL." Geek1 said. "Such knowledge needs to be shared. She's based on natural algorithms which are discovered rather than invent--"
"But then we wouldn't own her." Tucker backtracked. "Let's try to hack her a few more months on our own--keep on patenting her--as long as the patents pass the examiners in DC, she's patentable."
"But it's not right--you can't--"
"What do you think Geek2?" Tucker asked.
"Keep APRIL closed and proprietary." Geek2 said. "Patent the hell out of her. It's our time, money, superior expertise, and--"
"But Ranger invented the basics--we'd just be fencing off his mountaintop. And plus we can't compete with a world of hackers--"
"Hackers can't compete with a world of patent lawyers," Tucker joked.
"Something this big is meant to be Open Source," Geek1 said. "Shared like the laws of physics. Ranger would've--"
"Open Source can't be trusted." Geek2 interrupted. "It won't scale for an enterprise system like APRIL--"
"We can't be trusted." Geek1 said. "APRIL's power will be immense. If we--"
"Well you two figure it out--write it up for Friday's meeting." Tucker would always say and head out to play golf.
APRIL had grown since Ranger last saw her at MIT, before his advisor Dr. Kervian "forgot" to renew Ranger's fellowship, and they reactivated him to fly the F/A-22 Raptor on its first live missions. Ranger was a Top Gun. Uncle Sam had granted him leave to pursue a Ph.D. developing the F/A-22 Raptor Radar. But once in the lab, it was hard to concentrate on Dr. Kervian's projects, as radar, retinas, physics, poetry, and AI all bled into one. It was a myth of the small mind that physics and engineering and poetry different fields, that one could truly know one without knowing them all, that one could enjoy a symphony without hearing by just counting the notes. And soon Ranger got to thinking about Beatrice's soul. Was there a chance of bringing it back?
And so he lost himself in MIT's heaven of well-funded labs, free to follow his passions in the good company of fearless grad-students, with a soldering iron in one hand and a lab book in the other, pioneering the western frontier of knowledge. But no heaven on earth lasts for more than a second, and Uncle Sam called him on home to serve. Uncle Sam invested millions into each Top Gun, and thus they were only granted lea
Why are these corporations allowed these patents? Who's running the patent office? This cannot be allowed to continue.
I guess the only bright side is that the more these corporations get ridiculous patents on software the more they undermine the entire idea of software patents. But how much longer will we have to wait before governments refute the antisocial idea of "intellectual property"?
The Dutch will inherit the earth. If not, we'll settle for a bit of ocean. Beta delenda est!
Not to put words in your mouth, but ...
I can't believe he's trying to patent all forms of information transfer on the internet! This is absurd and an example of why IP is wrong or its application corrupt!
Should probably read
I can't believe he's trying to patent all forms of information transfer on the internet! This is absurd and an example of why IP is wrong AND its application corrupt!
The private ownership of thought, be it ideas or expression, is an abomination and IMHO a crime against the human mind. Being first to say or do something shouldn't give you any special priveleges beyond getting public credit for having thought of it first (and perhaps being first to market, if you're clever). Certainly these government monopoly entitlements completely undermine the competition upon which capitalism is predicated.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I have recently applied for a "Download" patent. Sure, I didn't invent the technology, and everyone uses it, but I was the first to get an application to the US Patent Office, and my caseworker says it looks like a slam dunk.
It goes like this, if you have anything on a site for download, and don't apply for one of my licenses, I'm going to sue you and take everything you've got. It's MY technology after all, I'll have the patent.
BDR Gear
Outdoor gear, MREs, and more!
Of course he put up Amazons patents up for prize money, and when people started to come in with information as prior art, he claimed that they were "too different" and shut down completely. The contact information and phone number has been obsolete/cut off for years.
Telling people who are filing bad patents about prior art only makes it easier for them to amend their patents in ways that makes it harder to fight them later.
Do not supply prior art information to people filing bad patents.
Since it seems most folks don't have a clue how patents work, but might want to learn, here's one place to start: http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page= 20050402193202442
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
Don't forget the lawyers.
One key to tort reform is removing those laws that lead to productivity-draining lawsuits. Far more effective than capping the awards available would be removing any special basis in law for civil action.
Patent law is currently about enabling lawyers to enrich themselves while stifling innovation.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
This is just the latest installment of the continuing /. saga, "Stupid Patent Tricks". The basic plot is some nefarious large corporation patents somehting like "breathing air". They dupe one of the people that the US Patent Office has hired for their lack of any knowledge about the world in which they live. Once granted, someone notices, posts to /., where the community of the righteous explodes in (what else) righteous indignation!
Would Web Chat (e.g. LivePerson) be Prior Art?
It certainly seems to match on the surface.