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Fair Use Review in Australia

Jaka writes "The Australian Attorney-General's Department is conducting a review on exceptions to copyright law. Currently Australia allows 4 specific 'fair dealing' exceptions (research or study; criticism or review; reporting of news; and professional advice given by a legal practitioner, patent attorney, or trade marks attorney - it's technically illegal here to convert songs from CD to MP3, or to record a TV show unless it's a live broadcast). They have published a request for public submissions (.pdf or .doc) on whether to expand this list, or adopt an open-ended 'fair use' policy similar to that used in the US and allow the courts to decide if any particular use of copyrighted material should be excepted from copyright law. As we're getting our own version of the DMCA thanks to the Australia-US Free Trade Agreement, if something isn't done to broaden copyright exceptions we'll end up with even more draconian copyright restrictions than the US."

264 comments

  1. Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    You guys are still all criminals anyways right? fp

    1. Re:Australia? by Kinky+Bass+Junk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, until we get fair use laws, yes. I don't think these laws will really change much in the way of every-day life down here; nobody really knows that we don't have fair use laws. It's ironic how paranoid the schools are over teaching good, legal-minded students, when most students go home to listen to pirated music on their pirated version of Windows XP. Nobody knows.

      --
      Anonymous Coward
    2. Re:Australia? by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To quote a comedian I once heard (whose name escapes me, but I know he was from the US of A)

      "I'd rather live in a country founded by criminals, than one founded by puritans."

      Getting a bit off topic

      I always laugh at what you can't do in the USA because of wierd laws designed to protect you from yourself, compared to what we can do here in Oz.

      I remember back in about '76 or '77 when we had full frontal female nudity on prime time free to air network TV. Yet in the US you made so much hoopla out of Janet Jackson's tit that it seemed like you thought it was the end of the world.

      And before you write me off as some whinging foreigner, I spend a lot of time in the US and am getting married there in August. I know that individually you can be nice people, but collectively .. that leaves a lot to be debated.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    3. Re:Australia? by log2.0 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's so right!

      btw, for all of those non-aussies out there, Oz=Australia. When we pronounce "aus" in our accent it comes out like "oz".

      --
      Can your karma go above being Excellent?
    4. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Additionally, a little known fact is that we are where Dorothy ends up after the twister picks up her house. It's nice and colourful here, and the munchkins are always very friendly.

    5. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and whinging is pronounced "win-jing".

      I still have no clear idea what it really means though...

    6. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It means the same thing as whining as far as I know...

      Skiting (sky-ting) on the other hand is boasting.

    7. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Down here in South Australia we speak proper, though. :)

    8. Re:Australia? by strider44 · · Score: 1

      "I know that individually you can be nice people, but collectively .. that leaves a lot to be debated."

      Have you seen the famous Roy and HG dialogue in the Dream about that topic?

    9. Re:Australia? by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      Ahhh Roy and HG .. what a pair .. another couple of Aussies that I will miss when I depart *sniff*.

      But infortunatley no .. I was bloody well OS during the olympics and missed all that great stuff.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    10. Re:Australia? by Monkelectric · · Score: 1
      but collectively .. that leaves a lot to be debated.

      You're exactly right of course, and the reason is the "people" who represent us, DON'T REPRESENT US. I could walk into a grocery store, throw a fistfull of M&Ms, and hit more sensible then there are in congress right now.

      We have our share of dumbasses no doubt. The problem is they're running the place right now.

      --

      Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

    11. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well that is because your chick with the full frontal was probably hot.
      While Janet is a shriveled up 50+ year old hag. That was eye ball peelingly scary.

      So, I am taking a taxi from the Melbourne airport.
      The taxi driver calls back to me, "Where you from, mate?"
      "The States, California," I reply
      "Mmm, mmm. Well you're a better man than me. I could never live there."
      "Why?"
      "Too many dickheads."
      So we sit in silence for a while. Me looking out the window, ignoring the drive like I usually do.
      Then he pipes up with, "Well, I guess we got a lot of dickheads here, too."
      After some more thought he breaks the silence with" But I reckon you've got more of them over there."

      Yeah, he was a philosopher that one.

    12. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Americans?
      You guys are still all slave owners right? ;)

    13. Re:Australia? by imroy · · Score: 1

      Ooh, that's going back a while, I don't think I remember that part. I bought both of the highlight tapes back in the day, but I don't have the later DVD(s). Is that dialogue/rant in one of these highlight packages?

    14. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It means the same thing as whining as far as I know..."

      "Whinging" means whining as in complaining. AFAIK, they (UKers) still use "whining" to mean a high-pitched, sustained sound. So, UKers use two words for two different meanings; USAers use one word for two meanings. (Lest UKers feel that they are superior for using two words for two different meanings, remember that UKers have one word for two different meanings, and USAers two words, for "lift" (and "elevator"). Also, "whinge" sounds stupid.)

    15. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are going to be spending any time in the USA, please remember that most Americans have no idea what "whinge" means (especially when pronounced to rhyme with "hinge"). Use "whine".

    16. Re:Australia? by aussie_a · · Score: 0, Troll

      Was he Indian?

    17. Re:Australia? by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      And bum-bag is pronounced fenny bag :P

    18. Re:Australia? by strider44 · · Score: 1

      I don't know, if not it should be.

    19. Re:Australia? by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      That's brilliant!

      So typically Australian.

      Sometimes I love the taxi drivers here in Melbourne.

      When they stop crapping on and on about how Jeff was so good...

    20. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      "The taxi driver calls back to me..."

      What the fuck were you doing in the back seat?

    21. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always laugh at what you can't do in the USA because of wierd laws designed to protect you from yourself, compared to what we can do here in Oz.

      From a gun owner to someone who cannot legally own a gun....
      Your generalization doesn't go very far.

      Yet in the US you made so much hoopla out of Janet Jackson's tit that it seemed like you thought it was the end of the world.

      How about some perspective? Just because the people who were 'outraged' were the loudest, it doesn't mean they were the majority. I'm relatively conservative and I couldn't give a rats ass what 'inappropriate' material is on prime-time television.

      Note that i wrote you off as "some whinging foreigner" after considering your comment. ;)

    22. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always laugh at what you can't do in the USA because of wierd laws designed to protect you from yourself, compared to what we can do here in Oz.

      From a gun owner to someone who cannot legally own a gun....
      Your generalization doesn't go very far.

      Yet in the US you made so much hoopla out of Janet Jackson's tit that it seemed like you thought it was the end of the world.

      How about some perspective? Just because the people who were 'outraged' were the loudest, it doesn't mean they were the majority. I'm relatively conservative and I couldn't give a rats ass what 'inappropriate' material is on prime-time television.

      Note that i wrote you off as "some whinging foreigner" after considering your comment. ;)

    23. Re:Australia? by dbIII · · Score: 1
      You guys are still all criminals anyways right
      Strangely this comment often comes from the USA, which is where the criminals were shipped before the colony of Sydney was founded. The imprisoned population of the USA probably exceeds the adult population of Australia at this point - unless you count sheep.
    24. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      had to repost that with correct formatting. ;)

    25. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jeff Kennet 4 lyfe!

    26. Re:Australia? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1
      AFAIK, they (UKers) still use "whining" to mean a high-pitched, sustained sound.

      Vintage Aussie joke;

      How can you tell when a plane landing in Australia is from England?

      The whining doesn't stop when the engines are shut down...
      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    27. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > Well that is because your chick with the full frontal was probably hot.

      Do the comparison yourself! Not the exact soft from the TV series (Number 96), but the same girl. (She was around 27 at the time).

      Abigail Rogan

      Janet Jackson

      IMO Abigail wins. :-)

    28. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yee we can legally own a gun. We can own hundreds. Grenade launchers, no.

    29. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was a wonderful banner on the front of one of the Melbourne pubs in the early 1990s.

      "Feeling Jeffed? Had a Kennett of a day? Come in and drown your sorrows in a cold one..."

    30. Re:Australia? by dooleys · · Score: 1

      and over here we always make our analysis of US domestic and foreign policy based on the commentary of New York taxi drivers.

    31. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      He's a Yank. They don't sit in the front.

    32. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US was founded by a bunch of people so uptight that even the british threw them out. Now thats hilarious.

    33. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Abigail was no great shakes either. She just looked like she would put out.

    34. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always laugh when i Remember Crocodile "paul hogan" Dundee visiting Conan o'brien. Conan talked about Australia being the penal colony whatever and Paul Corrected him that the Lousy criminals got caught and were shipped to Australia, the Good criminals werent caught and escaped to Usa.

    35. Re:Australia? by at80eighty · · Score: 0

      OMG!!! LOLZ!!111oneoneeleventy!! thats a gem right there you outback jack-ass...

    36. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You gotta be joking, mate!

    37. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We'll have one less when you go back home.

    38. Re:Australia? by DenDave · · Score: 1

      yeah and would an Aussie care to explain the word "seppo"? This always gives me the giggles...

      --
      -if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
    39. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Janet Jackson's tit was just an excuse to make it manditory to install broadcast interruption equipment (the 'Seven Seconds' delay...)

      Now, you probably can think of more than a few reasons why politicians want to block any 'unauthorized news' in the New Improved USA...

      So you have nudity, do you have the 400 gun murders a night with blood and gore on every silly program, like in the USA?

      Violence = OK
      Boobs = Horror!

    40. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seppo is rhyming slang. From "septic tank" which rhymes with "Yank". So it's a derogatory term for Americans.

    41. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's just vulgar. Why would you put a bag on your vagina, anyway?

    42. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How are you going to hunt rabbits without a grenade launcher? You've seen Bugs haven't you? Rabbits are tricky, we need all the help we can get.

    43. Re:Australia? by alexhohio · · Score: 0

      What do American Liberals and Foreign liberals have in common? They both hate America. Individually we are nice people, but collectively... Thats nice, thanks. If you don't like Americans, then stop using our inventions and innnovations as protest. Oh wait, then wouldn't you have to get off the internet, among other things? Americans are rude and unintelligent the European wrote, on his PC, and sent it over the internet, another American invention... Hmmmmmmmm.....
      I was in Europe (France, where the people are awesome, and it is an amazing country and culture) and they wanted to know what Americans think of the them. I think it pained them to find out that 99.99% of Americans don't care what you think of us.... The truth is, if something happened where America needed help, Frenchmen (all of Europe, and Australia, NZ etc.) would rush to our aid. The opposite is also true- Most Americans would sacrifice their life to save the lives of others in the world. (Like we did in WWII)

      --
      Almost every Harvard student was High School Valedictorian- After a year of college, half are in the bottom of the class
    44. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      btw, for all of those non-aussies out there, Oz=Australia.

      I'm sure the two people who didn't know that appreciate your explanation.

    45. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's because in the States if you sit in the front seat, the taxi driver thinks you are going to rob him.

      In Australia, if you don't sit in the front the driver thinks you are being all arrogant and want to be chauffeured, like some toffee nose.

      Different cultures

    46. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Americans are rude and unintelligent the European wrote, on his PC, and sent it over the internet, another American invention... Hmmmmmmmm.....

      If you think Australians are Europeans, then well...

    47. Re:Australia? by DeborahArielPickett · · Score: 1
      "Too many dickheads."

      The difference is that here in Australia, most of our dickheads drive taxis.

    48. Re:Australia? by Diablo1399 · · Score: 1

      "Hokay, this is Melbawn, mayte, Melbawn, and in Melbawn you hev to make hook turn. Do you know where the f*ck you are, mayte? Do you know where the f*ck you are??? Melbawn!! And in Melbawn, because of tram, you hev to go left to go right!!"

      I *heart* Fat Pizza

    49. Re:Australia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was once in a taxi with a guy from Texas, driving into town from Melbourne airport. He kept pointing to things and saying they had a much bigger one in the US.

      He said that he could get on his horse at sunrise and ride all day, and still not get to the other side of his property,

      so I said "Yep, I had a horse like that once."

    50. Re:Australia? by Meski · · Score: 1

      Hmmm. Probably only about half of them. Most Aussies probably regard all Americans as Yankees, but IIRC, it was one side or the other of the civil war. Therefore, I'd imagine the other side would regard it as derogatory, and the Yankee side would wear the tag seppo with pride. :)

    51. Re:Australia? by OppView · · Score: 0
      Rhyming slang..:)

      ..like "small brown bird" = "turd"

      "Seppo" - AU slang version of "septic tank" = yank (= american)

    52. Re:Australia? by msim · · Score: 1

      Don't make me go all Tinman on your sorry arse!!

      --

      Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
    53. Re:Australia? by msim · · Score: 1

      two things.

      1) yes im replying to an anon poster
      2) i never figured out why the hell they used that word to mean bum either. The cultural devide is wider than we think.

      --

      Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
  2. US by Dr_Banzai · · Score: 4, Funny

    First Canada, and now Australia. When will the US stop trying to push its draconian laws such as the DMCA on other countries?

    1. Re:US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When we bomb the fark out of it! :)

    2. Re:US by Kharne33 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just about everyone breaks the copywrite law here at the moment. Even the Prime Ministers wife tapes The Bill onto VHS and breaks the law doing so. The trouble is that if they actually change the law they might start enforcing it.

    3. Re:US by _merlin · · Score: 1

      If we want a free trade agreement, we have to have some harmonisation between laws. It's only fair.

      I'm no fan of the DMCA, and I would have preferred if the US moved closer to AUstralian IP laws, but that's never going to happen.

    4. Re:US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When they no longer have the 500 pound gorilla advantage.

    5. Re:US by Frodo+Crockett · · Score: 1

      First Canada, and now Australia. When will the US stop trying to push its draconian laws such as the DMCA on other countries?

      As soon everyone here tells the music and movie industries to fuck off.

      --
      "The newly born animals are then whisked off for a quick run through a giant baking oven." --heard on Food Network
    6. Re:US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      maybe we should let it come in, then report her to the police (going to the media if the police ignore the call - naomi robson would love a good hypocrisy story). the libs should then be dead set against the idea and get rid of it again once she goes to jail for recording the bill. they would be more likely to fight voriciously against it if it affects them, than if constituents merely try to entreaty them to fight against it.

    7. Re:US by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Meh. I think that there should be no attempts at harmonization of copyright law, and that the whole of international law on the subject should be that states should practice national treatment, and that whatever the laws of any state are, they should not conflict so greatly with the laws of other states such that a person could not simultaneously hold a copyright on a work in both jurisdictions.

      But generally, copyright law should serve the best interests of the people of the state it's the law of. Some will prefer expansive copyright, others narrow copyright, etc. Let's all figure it out on our own.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    8. Re:US by scott_evil · · Score: 1

      Not as far fetched as it sounds... I for one am all for Australia declaring war on the USA for it's unlawful holding of Australian citizens abducted from afghanistan.
      All we seem to do though, is to pretend we're another state of the US.

    9. Re:US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean citizen, david is the only one left

    10. Re:US by mitsuhama · · Score: 1

      We use the metric system here, you insensitive clod

    11. Re:US by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      As a US citizen, I have no problem with the US pushing its commerce-related laws on other countries. The more uniform trade laws are accross countries, the easier it is to do business internationally. This leads to lower prices, more efficient capitalism, and fewer lawyers.

      Some of our laws (specifically, the criminalization of IP violation and shrinking of Fair Use) are just bad laws. But in general, pushing our trade laws onto others is good for everyone.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    12. Re:US by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1
      Even the Prime Ministers wife tapes The Bill onto VHS and breaks the law doing so.

      Which is particularly amusing since she's one of the most qualified lawyers in the country...

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    13. Re:US by msim · · Score: 1

      And thusly she should know better. Not because of the whole taping thing, but because how SCREWED UP the bill has become. If i want to see drama i watch home and a fucking WAY for christ sake!!!!

      I stopped watching the bill in about '01 or so, went to dads and watched it towards the end of '04 and OMFG i couldnt believe how much of a frigging melodrama it had become. I had to get the hell outta there before i had a gag reflex.

      --

      Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
    14. Re:US by JThundley · · Score: 1

      When will the US stop trying to push its draconian laws such as the DMCA on other countries?

      We'll stop when there are no other countries =D

  3. A look back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

    At least in the eyes of the government, your still all criminals a part of a penal colony.

    1. Re:A look back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure Khan is kicking it somewhere in the bush.

  4. In Summary. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Australia is trying to come to (the digital) age with its Copyright Act. Today the Attorney-General's department released a call for comments of an issues paper on the standing and possible changes of copyright exceptions: Fair Use and Copyright Exceptions [Word / PDF]. Currently Australians are not allowed to do platform shifting (e.g. ripping a CD to a MP3 player) and may only do very limited time shifting (e.g. recording television programs). Where fair use (US) and the private use exception (EU) may allow these acts, Australia does not know a specific exception for private use.

    The Attorney-General said that "Many Australians believe quite reasonably they should be able to record a television program or format-shift music from their own CD to an iPod or MP3 player without infringing copyright law." [press release] The issues paper provides four possible changes to the current "fair dealing" provision and is open to others:

    1. consolidate the fair dealing exceptions in a single open-ended provision (would require judicial interpretation)
    2. retain the current fair dealing provisions and add an open-ended fair use exception (flexible but uncertainty about scope)
    3. retain current fair dealing exceptions and add further specific exceptions (e.g. time & format shifting)
    4. retain current fair dealing exceptions and add a statutory license that permits private copying of copyright material (possible problems with licensing scheme and DRMs v. private use)

    The issues paper gives a nice insight in Australian copyright law's fair dealing provision, while it tries to provide the basics of other countries, especially the US. It does a fair enough job at that, though its analysis can be quite shallow (for example on the EUCD, which it refers to as the Information Society Directive). It does address the DRM v. fair use issue, which is a central part of the problems the Australian government seeks to solve. I don't see an effective solution in the proposed changes. But then there is no immediate (legislative) solution for it in the US/EU either. Looks like Australia has some catching up to do, before it solves that issue for us all.

    1. Re:In Summary. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Our creaky 35-year-old copyright laws are being further exposed by a wave of new consumer electronic products such as DVRs, or digital video recorders, that can be programmed weeks in advance at the touch of a button to record hundreds of hours of TV programs and films.

      Unlike the US or some European countries, where laws are in place to allow copying for personal use - a clause known as "fair use" - Australians are subject to draconian laws, which are set to get even tougher as we fall into line with the US after the introduction of the US-Australia free trade agreement.

      Under new US laws, which must be in place by 2007, anyone found selling or using software that breaks a copyright lock on encrypted CDs or DVDs faces a spell in jail.

      It is this threat to liberty that has finally prompted the federal Attorney-General, Philip Ruddock, to review the law and consider a "fair use" clause that will bring the Australian public in from the cold. Fair use allows consumers who have bought a film or a piece of music to be able to transfer it to another medium for their own use.

    2. Re:In Summary. by Skrybe · · Score: 1

      I *hate* the first option because then you're relying on the judicial system. If you're wealthy then you have a better chance of a decision in your favour than Joe Average who doesn't have the money to pay for a top solicitor and barristers. Not to forget that courts have the horrible tendency to view a single precedent as concrete and be unwilling to overturn that decision in future.

      Not really sure what they're trying to say there. Are they suggesting adding a clause simply called "fair use" and then leaving it open to interpretation? How is that different to 1?

      The third suggestion sounds fair but limited. ie: They'll define a few situations where it's ok but miss other upcoming possibilities. Which means in two years time we might be all screaming for copyright reform again.

      Personally I like option four but I can't see that one getting through. The lobbyists from a few big media companies will never allow that. The benefits I see there are that it's clear cut what you have a right to copy and that it's not a matter for interpretation by a court. This means it's available to the common man (you can easily spend $20 to get a copy of the legislation).

      I can certainly understand their concerns about how it's going to mesh with licensing and particulary DRM. We've already had a ruling that it was legal to mod a Playstation here when the purpose is to allow playing of legally purchased media from other countries. This has since been overruled (sigh). I can see the same problems if we get given a statutory license to copy a DVD or a game for private use. If the copy is protected with DRM then we have to be able to circumvent it. But that is at odds with the DMCA (or our equivalent).

    3. Re:In Summary. by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have to disagree with you there. I think it's entirely the job of the courts to determine what does and what does not constitute not fair dealing.

      Parliament -- write down the laws of the land
      Courts -- decide whether or not laws were broken and determine appropriate punishment
      Police -- catch people who break the laws

      This system has built-in checks and balances. It's certainly not perfect, but it has a less terrible worst-case scenario than any other arrangement.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    4. Re:In Summary. by Silkejr · · Score: 1

      Nice writeup.

      Sure hope for their sake they win this round, because trying to change it afterwards is probably going to be a lot harder.

    5. Re:In Summary. by Skrybe · · Score: 1

      In theory that sounds great. In practise it isn't. Going through the judicial system still favours the side with the most money. And who will the side be that has the most money when we're talking copyright? ARIA or the Aussie equivalent of the MPAA of course.

      If I had to go to court tomorrow I'd have to sell my car and most of what I own just to be able to afford decent representation. As I see it that's the biggest flaw with the first option. If we had a free judicial system then great!

  5. Courts by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We shouldn't need the courts. The law should be black and white. "you can do this" and "you cannot do this". When you leave grey areas you get idiots like the RIAA exploiting them to make profit.

    --
    I like muppets.
    1. Re:Courts by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

      A fine idea, but there will always be some smartass who asks for a precise definition of "is"...

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    2. Re:Courts by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 1

      and a brick soon sorts his face our :)

      --
      I like muppets.
    3. Re:Courts by Mrs.+Grundy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The law cannot be black and white--this is why we have courts. Imagine if lawmakers had taken your wisdom in creating copyright laws back in 1970--made it black and white. They would have made a set of laws that make no sense after the technological change that has occurred in the last 35 years. The law needs to be flexible so it can remain pertinent and applicable in a changing world. The law should paint broad principles and be clear enough so the principle behind the law--the idea--is well communicated, but flexible enough that it can cope with changing times. Of course this is a real challenge--maybe THE challenge for lawmakers. It was the same challenge faced by the original writers of the US constitution in the 18th century which is why the constitution is quite vague about specifics (thank goodness they didn't make everything black and white to reflect 18th century norms) and allows for amendments.

    4. Re:Courts by Gopal.V · · Score: 1
      >When you leave grey areas you get idiots like the RIAA exploiting them to make profit.

      You'll also end up with idiots exploiting the same gray (or grey) areas to deny RIAA their profits. Which is what is happening right now.

      It's an evolutionary arms race - but played out in internet time instead of in centuries.
    5. Re:Courts by PakProtector · · Score: 1

      May I ask you what drugs you are doing, and where I can find them?

      Nothing is ever just black and white. That's pretty much the only fact of life. Just as there are varying degrees of hot, there are varying degrees of wrong.

      That's why people don't get the same sentance for petty theft as for murder.

      Please think next time before you speak.

      --

      Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
      man: no entry for woman in the manual.
      "Qua!?"

    6. Re:Courts by Unordained · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think there's a room enough for making the law applicable despite changes in technology and culture without having to resort to laws which are defined by the courts as you go.

      Justice Antonin Scalia gave a talk recently(-ish) about the concept of the "living constitution", mostly to point out that although the idea sounds good when you consider badly-written laws ... it's always dangerous. Anyone could bend the law any direction; although you may think it's helpful to you the one time you get the law bent the way you want, it'll come back to bite you in the bum when someone uses that same concept against you. In his opinion, we should all fight against the "living constitution" (and by extension, any philosophy that says that laws need not be precisely worded, with clear intent) and instead rely on passing laws that are to our advantage, black-on-white.

      A flexible law is not a gray law. "Do not murder", for example, is clear -- yet it doesn't come with a laundry list of possible ways of committing murder that has to be revised every time a new weapon is made or a new trick learned. Perhaps it needs a definition of murder (example: actively and intentionally causing the death of a human who doesn't consent to it) but just because it's simple doesn't mean it's gray. From that simple law, you can probably deduce whether or not something you're about to do is legal.

      On the other hand, laws of the form "this is legal if the court says it is" means that a citizen can no longer be reasonably expected to know the law -- which comes dangerously close to exhonerating the citizen from having to know the law at all, or ever be liable for violations of said law.

      Geek-ish: laws should be well-written open-source code. Everyone should have access to the code, and as such, can read it, understand it, and know what will happen given a particular set of input (actions.) If, on the other hand, the law depends on sending requests off to a black-box for which the code is unknown, the result might as well be random.

    7. Re:Courts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Imagine if lawmakers had taken your wisdom in creating copyright laws back in 1970--made it black and white. They would have made a set of laws that make no sense after the technological change that has occurred in the last 35 years.

      This would only be an issue if the legal system forbade ever changing a law once it was passed. Congress has changed the copyright laws several times since 1970; they can deal with new technology whenever they pass a new law.

      It was the same challenge faced by the original writers of the US constitution in the 18th century which is why the constitution is quite vague about specifics

      IMHO, this was a huge mistake, because when a law is vague, it can be interpreted however you want. (The 14th Amendment is an excellent example of this.)

    8. Re:Courts by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

      Stoning isn't permitted in Australian courts. Being stoned might land you in court, though...

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    9. Re:Courts by ramblin+billy · · Score: 1


      I have to disagree - they are not exploiting grey areas - they are simply breaking the law. If the p2p crowd had maintained a little moderation and kept a low profile things wouldn't be as bad as they are. The record industry was always willing to overlook some piracy, but the distribution of free copies of new releases all over the world the same day as the official release was something their business could not survive. I admit that if you've got the chops to hack free music I don't have a lot to say. By hanging out thousands of files where anyone who had a box and knew how to click could build vast libraries of content with virtually no effort - and then bragging it all about - the p2p crowd brought it on themselves. The rest of us are paying for it in the hassles the copyright protection creates in the fair and legal use of our purchased products. How many of you know people with huge collections of songs who never listen to half of them? It's not the law that exists in a grey area - it's our moral values.

      billy - 700 cds 0 mp3s

    10. Re:Courts by angle_slam · · Score: 1
      But in a field as fast moving as copyright, it is very difficult for Congress to continually have to make new laws in order to account for technological developments.

      The current US Copyright law was passed in 1976. But they were talking about it for a decade. In 1976, the cassette deck was far from a household item and the VCR was just introduced. By 1992, when the AHRA was passed, the big worry was DAT, so they specifically had to pass the AHRA just to deal with the big problem of DAT. Of course, DAT went nowhere. Big hard drives, MP3 compression, and broadband was far from lawmakers minds at that time.

      If they pass a law now directed at P2P and Torrents, who knows how long those laws will even be relevant, rendered obsolete by technological advances?

    11. Re:Courts by metlin · · Score: 1

      Not really.

      Laws are generic because they evolve, and are largely contextual in nature.

      Almost nothing in life is ever black and white - most things are quite grey, and in shades of grey.

      Why do you expect the law to be in black and white?

      Consider killing a man - there are situations when it would have been a homicide, cases when it would have been self-protection and so on. And even then, if you had the advantage and yet killed the guy who tried to kill you, you're still guilty, but of a lesser crime.

      Things evolve, people evolves, laws evolve. The US legal system is largely based on precedence, and for a good reason.

      The greys are what help the system evolve and come to terms with the changing times.

    12. Re:Courts by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      Booting on the other hand is permitted in Australian courts. We're civilized people here, no death penalty bullshit. Just a good old-fashioned booting.

    13. Re:Courts by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Your definition of "murder" does not allow me to fully defend myself against somebody intent on murdering me, and how about that whole situation with that coma patient recently?
      Though you could again define some additional text for these, this would again leave room for exceptions and would in the end make law uncomprehensibly complex yet still ridden with exceptions.
      In the end this will allow wrongdoers to follow the letter of the law and exploit any gaps in it to their benefit without risk of punishment.

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    14. Re:Courts by ramblin+billy · · Score: 3, Insightful


      "Do not murder', for example, is clear -- yet it doesn't come with a laundry list of possible ways of committing murder that has to be revised every time a new weapon is made or a new trick learned. Perhaps it needs a definition of murder (example: actively and intentionally causing the death of a human who doesn't consent to it) but just because it's simple doesn't mean it's gray. From that simple law, you can probably deduce whether or not something you're about to do is legal."

      The reason there's no new laundry list is because we have OLD laundry lists we've been refining for centuries. The concepts of killing in time of war and killing in self defense are two prime examples. We have all sorts of highly defined special case laws covering murder. Many of these definitions change over time. As we evolve as a species our definitions become more specific and require a higher degree of individual responsibility. Killing an armed enemy in active combat is OK, killing an unarmed enemy who is surrendering is murder. Bombing a city and accidently killing civilians is OK, walking into a city and shooting down civilians on purpose is murder. If you're intentionally out to teach someone a lesson by beating but not killing them, and they accidently die, it's murder. In the U.S., if someone dies, for any reason, in the commission of a felony, we consider it murder. Bombing the enemy from the sky is heroic warfare, bombing the enemy with a roadside device is murderous terrorism. Each situation is different, yet they all consist of taking a life without consent.

      What is it if you deny your child medical treatment that violates your religious beliefs and she dies? Is it murder? What is it if you make laws banning stem cell research due to religious beliefs, have you murdered those who could have been saved by stem cell therapy? It is murder to pay farmers to not grow food when people in the world are starving? It's definitely incredibly stupid. In some future society it very well may be considered murder. What about manslaughter? Is the victim less dead due to accident than intent? You see there are many different laws concerning murder. In most of the world stoning a woman to death for adultery would be murder, but not everywhere.

      My point is that the law MUST be a living thing - not so much because of the changes in technology - but because of the changes in the human heart. Not so long ago if a man trespassed you were within your right to kill him. If he threatened you with his fists you could kill him. Now we have the concept of proportional response. Would a reasonable man in that situation respond with that level of violence? The definition of a reasonable man is determined by the courts in each case. A reasonable man in 12th century France resembles a modern citizen of Atlanta as a mammoth resembles an elephant. Our concept of 'reasonable' and indeed, 'man', has changed. Killing a slave used to be an offense against property. Today we find that idea horrible.

      It is true that laws must bear a certain gravity and stability. Changing laws on the whim of current notion is as bad as clinging to laws we have outgrown. Some laws are designed to make us better - laws bestowing freedoms and rights; some laws are designed to confound the dark side of human nature - laws condemning tyranny and violence. The Rule of Law, like every human thing is flawed and incomplete, it is also the supreme example of the finest qualities of the human character. When we speak of laws we must do our upmost to see clearly and speak truly. The law must remain alive in the human heart, for when it dies, so do we.

      billy - of course there's something to be said for civil disobedience

    15. Re:Courts by Unordained · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Indeed, my example wasn't perfect. If it were, I think I'd be trying to get myself elected somewhere...

      Thanks you for drawing up such a list of "possibly murderous situations" -- I'd been meaning to do so for the purpose of defining the limits of the label "terrorism" (which we use very loosely.) If you look at your examples though, they are (to me) quite obviously points on a map ... individual examples of some higher ideal. The idea is to draw the actual lines, not just plot out a bunch of example cases.

      Did you intend harm? Did you understand the consequences of your actions? Were you in control of your actions, and if not, had you consciously caused yourself not to be in control? Was the victim consenting? Did the victim have the right to consent? Were you executing justice in accordance with laws that the victim had (perhaps implicitly) agreed to? Were you acting preemptively, and if so, were you sure that your enemy had crossed a point of "no return", and about to cause undue harm? Were there any other ways of stopping the person? (Definitions of "free will" and sentience would eventually come into play, I'm pretty sure.)

      Teaching by example works well because kids pick up on the "rules" easily -- they don't just think that the examples you've given are the only cases in the universe (luckily). But for law ... if we define law by example, then we decide cases by analogy ... most analogies are flawed on some level, which means every case will involve "yes, X is like Y in respects A, B, and C, but not D, but we feel that's close enough" ... that's really quite dangerous. If we define by example and expect everyone to pick up on the examples, then we're being very trusting ... but we run the risk of having them guess wrong. With a kid, you can just tell the kid "no, that's not what I meant" ... with law, people die (at least in the US.)

      I'd like to think, when I'm presented before a court, accused of some crime, the -only- thing on the mind of the jurors will be "was this covered by law?", not "what does this law cover?".

    16. Re:Courts by mitsuhama · · Score: 1

      what the fuck was with that simpsons ep. i still don't get what the writers where on about in that one

    17. Re:Courts by msim · · Score: 1

      I think you meant to say "I still don't get what the writers were ON when they wrote that one".
      I understand your mistake though, anyone could have made it ;-).

      --

      Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
  6. Fair go with Fair Use please! by Kaorimoch · · Score: 1

    The problem is that the fair use laws being suggested prevent it from being used for anything that has some form of copy protection or that specifically mentions that copying is not authorised. Which means we can now legally tape stuff off TV but not much else.

  7. Restrictive copyright law may be very good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Excessive restrictions on copyrighted music, movies, etc will be GOOD for creating demand for more liberally licensed works like Creative Commons works.

    I'd be happy to see Brittney Spears CD's at $40/copy with unbreakable DRM, because that's the best chance there is for better bands to get some exposure - by offering works with either more reasonably licenses or more reasonable prices - hopefully both.

  8. I doubt anything will change. by n0dalus · · Score: 4, Informative

    I sent in a complaint to the senate inquiry about the US-AU-FTA, and they did nothing (except send me some nice looking books on their brainless decision). Why should I think they will change anything if I say something now?

    1. Re:I doubt anything will change. by femto · · Score: 1

      If you don't say anything it won't change. If you say something it MIGHT change. I would point out that the changes to IP law have not yet been implemented (month or two to go). Up until then things can still be changed, so it's still worth screaming as loudly as you can.

  9. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, LEAVE THE PLANET by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    People like you complain all day but do nothing to get away from Planet United States.

    1. Re:IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, LEAVE THE PLANET by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, that's about how Americans view the world, alright - outlying suburbs of the USA.

      One idiot was here for the Logey's last week and said "I love Australia, it's my favourite city in the whole world."

      *twit*

  10. Its a matter of nature by gotpaint32 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    DMCA laws as much as we hate them are going to be here for a good long time. Until someone abolishes for-profit content, it's silly to say the DMCA is purely evil (flamebait MUAHAHA) which it isn't, well not as much as most slashdotters believe. Furthemore the hammer of the DMCA rarely falls on joe user, unless he was using napster (but then again he was stealing IP no matter which way you look at it it was wrong), so continue to tape your tv programs, rip ur CDs, download Pr0n. Until they start sticking DRMs on everything (which then u should boycott the product) and busting heads, sit pretty. The laws are there primarily for the big boys, the major piracy groups and would be piraters alike...

    --
    Nuclear war would really set back cable. - Ted Turner
    1. Re:Its a matter of nature by gotpaint32 · · Score: 1

      Oh just for a sake of reference, anal sex (M/F or M/M, F/F? i dunno for sake of completeness) is an offense punishable by jail time in a few states. I dunno the last time anyone went to jail for that... Meaning, don't pirate movies and start selling them in Times Square and then be angry that you got caught. It just proves u were being a damn fool.

      --
      Nuclear war would really set back cable. - Ted Turner
    2. Re:Its a matter of nature by killjoe · · Score: 1

      The DMCA is evil because it goes too far. It's not about preventing "theft" it's about having the freedom to use something you paid for. Oh and it's also about having the freedom to reverse engineer and take things apart without going to jail.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    3. Re:Its a matter of nature by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      Laws are hardly stay constrained for the reason they are enacted. I believe Tax Evasion laws nabbed Al Capone because they couldn't convict him on anything else? But is that the extent they use those charges? I think not. So will be the case of the DMCA. And didn't RIAA go after individuals lately? 12 y/o girls are hardly big boys in any sense of the word. Sure, the RIAA got bad PR for this, but do you want to rely on that when they come knocking on your door? The reason the DMCA is still on the books is because the informed people of the US haven't really banded together and fought it in political terms. Those who wish to fight it need to play the system otherwise it will go to those who do, sad to say.

    4. Re:Its a matter of nature by SilverspurG · · Score: 5, Insightful
      but then again he was stealing IP no matter which way you look at it it was wrong
      On the contrary. Joe User is receiving a perfectly legal copy from someone who is sharing it with him. Joe User is not stealing anything. That person who is sharing the copy, in most cases, legally purchased a copy. All whimsical arguments about licensing aside, once a person legally purchases a product and is in possession of it then it is perfectly legal for them to share it with any and everyone.

      The US military solves the IP problem in a practical way: If they don't want you to share something they don't share it with you. It's that simple. Military minds are very practical when it comes to solving the real problem as opposed to running around in endless circles debating the legal definition of intellectual property.

      If the media industry feels their profit margin isn't high enough they're free to jack up the price of each copy sold. They're even free to come up with customized hardware players that work on an encrypted data format (HA! See how far THAT business model takes them!). This business about pretending they still own something after they've legally sold it is ridiculous. This business about making federal felons out of legitimate customers after the point of sale is equally ridiculous.

      Face reality. They legally sold it and the owner of the new copy is legally sharing it. This artificial creation of licensing has got to stop. There are two types of transactions in reality: full sale and rental. If I rent something then I fully expect to give it back. If I buy something, however, then the seller knows at the point of sale that I own it once they've accepted money for it.

      I have over 400 legally purchased CDs and fewer than 30 mp3s which I don't legally own the original CD for. I don't share my material on the public network and I don't use common p2p sharing software (Kazaa, napster, whathaveyou) but I am sick and tired of the arguments, dischord, and strife being caused by people who can't cope with the concept of "It's bought and sold... Let go!"
      --
      fast as fast can be. you'll never catch me.
    5. Re:Its a matter of nature by roeland · · Score: 1

      Whether the DMCA was 'intended' for the big perpetrators or not, the EFF proves it is being used to harass people on a large scale, or at least to make them look guilty before so proven.

      Secondly, boycotting a DRMed product when the industry aims at forbidding the sales of any non-compliant products doesn't sound very practical.

      Furthermore, silently trespassing a law because you're convinced they're not after you doesn't seem a wise thing to do- the day may come they are after you, e.g. when media sales are slightly lower then RIAA had expected or desired, or when your neighbour denounces you because he doesn't like the colour of your nose.

    6. Re:Its a matter of nature by gotpaint32 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You have to reexamine your own sale or rental analogy. Reality is they aren't selling you goods, they are selling you intellectual property, one that inherently hinges on rights regardless of medium. The physical medium of the CD just happen to be a convienent vessel to transfer the information produced so you can enjoy the right to listen to said CD, DVD, WMA, whatever.

      You have to think of IP rights as a concert ticket. With the ticket you can listen to the music at the concert, you can even give the ticket to a friend to go in you place, but should you really expect that you and your hundred buddys get in the door because you made a bunch of photocopys of the orginal ticket? No, of course not. Rights certainly don't transfer like that, the world would be a chaotic place if it did.

      So yes, you are perfectly within your rights to share your goods; lend your friend that shiny britney cd of yours, but one physical cd = one rightful owner. The DMCA may be unagreeable for various reasons but its not as draconian as you make it out to be.

      --
      Nuclear war would really set back cable. - Ted Turner
    7. Re:Its a matter of nature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but then again he was stealing IP no matter which way you look at it it was wrong

      I can think of a way to look at it so that he wasn't wrong: He wasn't wrong. I don't have to give you any reason that I think this. Just as in a court of law, where the burden of proof is on the plaintiff to show that the defendant did the deed beyond a reasonable doubt, the burden of proof is on you to prove that in every possible case this Joe was wrong. Do you really think that IP infringement is such a simple, straightforward, black-and-white issue that you can say that sort of thing about it?

    8. Re:Its a matter of nature by SilverspurG · · Score: 5, Insightful
      they are selling you intellectual property
      Whimsical conjecture. As near as I can tell using the standard five senses that nature endows (nearly) everyone with, they sold to me a physical object. It is well within my technological capabilities to reproduce this object, or something very near to it with the same functionality. They know this before, during, and after the point of sale. If they don't take this into proper consideration then they are poor businessmen and I do not want my taxpayer dollars supporting such a blatant oversight. It's not like they're being blindsided out of the blue by aliens with magical technology. Every other business in the world must carefully consider its supply lines, its customer base, its distribution routes and it is the responsibility of the business owner to ensure that these considerations are properly accounted for before selling the product. If not, it is still the responsibility of the business owner to modify their own processes accordingly to adjust their profit margin.

      It is not my responsibility, as a taxpayer, to support a business which sticks its head in the sand about the viability of its product and the availability of technologies which affect its product. Did the makers of leather armor try to take the makers of the longbow to court? No. They made better plate armor. Did the makers of the ancient wooden galleons try to take the makers of steamships to court? Maybe, if they were caught up in ridiculous patent disputes but, in the end, it is their responsibility to make a better product.

      Stick with reality.
      The physical medium of the CD just happen to be a convienent vessel to transfer the information
      More whimsical conjecture. The reality is they sold to me an object. I own that object. They should quit trying to pretend they still own that object.
      You have to think of IP rights as a concert ticket
      No, I don't... but go on.
      With the ticket you can listen to the music at the concert, you can even give the ticket to a friend to go in you place, but should you really expect that you and your hundred buddys get in the door because you made a bunch of photocopys of the orginal ticket?
      Did you even read what I originally wrote? This metaphor is the same as hardware players with hardware encryption. The door bouncers at the concert venue are the microchips checking to ensure that the ticket isn't a photocopy. I said that the media industry is free to attempt to implement this. See how far that business model gets them when we have to buy a new player every few years at $200 each.
      but one physical cd = one rightful owner
      Absolutely. One physical toothpick, one tissue, one sheet of toilet paper... until someone makes more.

      There's no secret in the world that the everyday consumer has the technological capability to make more. That issue was brought up at the time CD writers were put on the market and the appropriate compensatory tax was added to the cost of blank CDs (supposedly).

      Get over it. Face reality.
      --
      fast as fast can be. you'll never catch me.
    9. Re:Its a matter of nature by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      Secondly, boycotting a DRMed product when the industry aims at forbidding the sales of any non-compliant products doesn't sound very practical.

      Once Bob the indie down the street can't sell his stuff non-DRM'd and you can't play it, come back and talk about this. Until then, STFU.

    10. Re:Its a matter of nature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they were selling me the IP then I'd now own the rights to the music. That would be dumb of them, and I'd be rich!

      They are not selling me the IP. They are not selling me the information, or the right to listen to it.

      They are selling me a plastic disc. It's my fucking disc, and I should be legally allowed to do whatever I want _except_ give a copy to a third party.

    11. Re:Its a matter of nature by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1
      Joe User is receiving a perfectly legal copy from someone who is sharing it with him. Joe User is not stealing anything. That person who is sharing the copy, in most cases, legally purchased a copy. All whimsical arguments about licensing aside, once a person legally purchases a product and is in possession of it then it is perfectly legal for them to share it with any and everyone.

      Um, no. Sorry, but those arguments aren't whimsical at all, and your argument is factually incorrect.

      Firstly, copyright exists precisely because you don't have an open-ended right to copy things. If you did, there would be no point to copyright, because once the first copy was sold it could be reproduced arbitrarily with no further compensation to the provider. This is an economic nonsense.

      Secondly, the argument that a receiver is innocent and it's the sender who's making the copy and therefore guilty of copyright infringement is only applicable in some jurisdictions. This is a legal nonsense even today in many jurisdictions, and at best an open question in many others.

      You are applying a model that works for physical goods to an information-based economy. That just isn't constructive, which is exactly why more or less every country in the modern world has evolved some sort of intellectual property framework in its legal system. Some of these are tipping the balance too far in favour of distributers now, and I'm as anti that as anyone, but the principle is sound.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    12. Re:Its a matter of nature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the world would be a chaotic place if it did.

      Yes indeed! I can prove that by telling you that no one EVER holds free outdoor concerts. I mean, if that happened, how would the performers ever be able to survive? Just anybody could come and listen to them! This is why no one ever holds a concert without charging a hefty fee for the right to listen.

      Oh wait...

    13. Re:Its a matter of nature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're even free to come up with customized hardware players that work on an encrypted data format (HA! See how far THAT business model takes them!).

      Like a DVD player? Seems to be working quite well.

    14. Re:Its a matter of nature by tpv · · Score: 1
      They know this before, during, and after the point of sale

      What they also know is that the current law makes the act of copying the CD illegal, and they can sue you if you do it.

      You can't then say that they knew you had the technical ability to share it, and therefore they should not have sold it if they didn't want the sharing to occur. (Well, actually you can say it, but..)
      At the time of the sale, there was a law in place designed to prevent copying of the CD. The seller and buyer both knew that and entered into the agreement knowingly. If the law did not exist then the seller probably would not have entered into the agreement. If the buyer does not want to abide by the law, then they should not enter into the agreement.

      If society wants to ditch that law, then all well and good, but the existence of the law does influence the decisions of the CD producers, and the removal of that law will almost certainly cause a change in their behaviour such that the number of CDs for sale will dramatically reduce.
      If that's what society wants, then lets go for it. I'm happy with it. Most of the musicians I like make almost no money from the current system anyway, so I'm happy with it changing.

      The reality is, the "creative" (and I use the term loosely) works being produced in society at the moment are tied in some way to the current law. Society has offered an arrangement to them - effectively we've said that if they will sell copies of their work at a low per unit price, we will make every effort to prevent those copies from being duplicated.
      If we don't like that arrangement (any more) then let's withdraw it - but it's one way or the other. Either we keep the arrangement and we enforce our end of it, or we scrap the arrangement and accept the resulting impact on the production of creative works.

      --
      Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.
    15. Re:Its a matter of nature by painlord2k · · Score: 0

      I must deny your first statement. Copyright exist because you have the open-ended right to copy anything everytime you like. Copyright exist only to limit your natural rights in favor to creatives. These limits exist as an incentive for the creatives to create more, so more would be available to the people to freely copy after the end of the copyright.

    16. Re:Its a matter of nature by Snaller · · Score: 1

      You have to think of IP rights as a concert ticket. With the ticket you can listen to the music at the concert, you can even give the ticket to a friend to go in you place, but should you really expect that you and your hundred buddys get in the door because you made a bunch of photocopys of the orginal ticket? No, of course not. Rights certainly don't transfer like that, the world would be a chaotic place if it did.

      Except with a concert the work everytime. With a CD they expect to get paid over and over for soemthing done once. Quite imoral.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
  11. current restrictions by venicebeach · · Score: 2, Insightful

    it's technically illegal here to convert songs from CD to MP3, or to record a TV show unless it's a live broadcast)

    Can't you just say you were "studying" the recording? Or you were preparing a critique? The exceptions sound rather broad, are they enforced at all?

    1. Re:current restrictions by Kinky+Bass+Junk · · Score: 2, Informative

      I doubt they'd except it, unless you had proof, such as signed letter from educational institution or employer.

      --
      Anonymous Coward
    2. Re:current restrictions by syousef · · Score: 1


      I doubt they'd except it, unless you had proof, such as signed letter from educational institution or employer.


      Let's start a music and film appreciation and study society...

      www.MFASS.com.au

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    3. Re:current restrictions by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 4, Informative

      "The exceptions sound rather broad"

      They aren't, they're very clearly specified and quite limited. You have to read the act to realise that the summary is rather lacking.

      Here's the 1968 copyright act:
      http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ ca1968133/

      And here's the 2000 Digital Agenda act (already in place, you might notice):
      http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ caaa2000294/

      Ordinarily I'd answer your question in greater detail, but...well, sorry, I can't be arsed, I'm going home for the day. Start at section 10.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
  12. Westerners by headkase · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It's good for business and if it turns out that in 30 or 40 years from now we can replace all our business with some magical positive return system then we can switch to it then. But in the mean time we're finding that we have mostly knowledge as our primary assets and pragmatically it is being protected through these treaties.
    Take that with a grain of salt, it's just my off the cuff reaction.

    --
    Shh.
  13. Standard format by hoka · · Score: 1

    Somebody should come up with some standardized layout for /.'ers and other interested parties to submit a professional looking opinion quickly. Who is up to the challenge?

    1. Re:Standard format by ramblin+billy · · Score: 1


      "Somebody should come up with some standardized layout for /.'ers and other interested parties to submit a professional looking opinion quickly."

      I would think it would be more valuable to submit an opinion more representative of professional thinking than one looking professional. A standardized format used by all /.ers is most likely to result in a new filter. If the goal is to affect positive change and create meaningful dialog, the last thing we need is to facilitate quick, spur of the moment 'opinions'. Lets face it, there really are not that many of us who need a special copyright exemption to allow the free distribution of goatse.

      The article is rather long and after a short perusal I still am not sure whether non-Australian viewpoints would be welcomed. It's too bad there is no way to require a submitter to actually read the document before posting, the foreword is very promising. I was wondering if any of you blokes from down under could clue us in. Is this on the up and up or just cynical political pandering? In your experience, is the government of Australia seriously seeking advice from their citizens or, like here in the U.S., are they making their decisions in the backrooms and at lobbyist's shindigs? At least they're pretending to pay attention, lately our leaders attitudes seems to be: "now just sit back and don't worry your pointy little heads, as soon as God whispers in my ear I'll tell you in words you can understand exactly what we're gonna do - now say Amen".

      billy - thank the lord for term limits

  14. Perhaps you can adapt my Canadian letter? by saskboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe you can use this, or post your own Australian version, modifying it to what applies in your laws being proposed, and write your Government Representative to voice your concerns at the loss of personal rights.

    Please write your MP on this matter. Use my letter below if you don't want to write your own.
    Send your letter for free (no postage necessary), to your MP at the following address:
    [your MP's name] M.P.
    House of Commons
    Ottawa ON K1A 0A6

    Find their email address, but write by paper mail too. http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/people/hou se/PostalCode.asp?lang=E

    Dear Mr. Breitkreuz
    To summarize the issues in this letter:
    1. Internet Service Providers should not be required to keep extensive logs of private and legal online communications.

    2. The government must not stop Canadian citizens from making personal-use copies of their legally purchased software, music, and movie media.

    Background:
    http://pch.gc.ca/progs/ac-ca/progs/pda-cpb/reform/ statement_e.cfm

    Here is the reasoning:
    The purpose of the Copyright Act is to support creativity and innovation in the arts and culture. To design a new Act on the failed and draconian Digital Millenium Copyright Act of the United States of America, would be a disaster for Canadian culture, and innovation. Also our court system could become clogged with law abiding citizens who make personal use copies of their music, software, and movie collections for no personal financial gain. An implementation of the proposed changes to the Copyright Act would unleash another "Gun Registry boondoggle" onto the Canadian people - creating criminals out of law abiding citizens at the expense of Canadian taxpayers.

    Internet Service Providers like Sasktel should not be made to keep extensive client usage logs for possible future prosecution by various copyright-based industries. I don't want to pay for that system to be put into effect, and I don't think most people do. The phone companies are not forced by the government to record the content of phone conversations, only police can do that with a proper warrant. ISP logs are going to be equivalent to phone-taps, and that's a violation of my privacy. It's doing the job of the police, and is for the sole benefit of an industry basing its profits on an outdated business model that is no longer realistic for the Canadian government to protect.
    It is completely unfair to be paying a levy to artists organizations for purchasing blank CD media to make home-use private copies of legal CD music, and now to also be unable to legally copy the music I've paid for off of Digital Rights Managed CDs. If copying CD music is going to be illegal, why is the government collecting money from the product for an illegal activity? I'm satisfied that the current levy is helping to compensate artists from illegitimate copying, and no new law is required to prevent me and other people from making sensible backups of our legal music, software, and movie collections.

    Your representation in the House of Commons on this matter is greatly appreciated by me, and other supporters of personal liberty and innovation in the arts. I look forward to hearing from you.

    Sincerely,
    my name

    --
    Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
  15. Fair use for Study by shitdrummer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hmmm, if review or study is an acceptable fair use of copyrighted music, can I as a musician copy any and all the music I like for the purpose of studying how to be a more successful professional musician?

    Shitdrummer.

    1. Re:Fair use for Study by _merlin · · Score: 1

      No, because you're only allowed to reproduce a "reasonable proportion" of a work for study. For textbooks, that's up to 50% (I know that from teaching at a university). I don't know what it would be for songs.

    2. Re:Fair use for Study by realityfighter · · Score: 1

      As long as you don't perform the songs, I'd say go for it. You CAN prove that you didn't perform them, right? ;)

      As far as I've been able to tell from working with music departments in schools, you can copy all you like if you use the song as an exercise rather than a performance piece. In fact, there's always an interesting point in the music year when all the performers get shiny new copies of pieces they've been practicing all year. Of course, this was in Choral Arts, where the music publishers have a lot of power. Instrumentals like the drumline just seem to copy whatever the hell they want. IANAL, TINLA, etc.

      --
      A strain of paranoid prevention can be worse than the disease, whate'er the intention.
    3. Re:Fair use for Study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Q: What do you call a guy who hangs around with musicians?

      A: A drummer.

    4. Re:Fair use for Study by shark72 · · Score: 1

      "Hmmm, if review or study is an acceptable fair use of copyrighted music, can I as a musician copy any and all the music I like for the purpose of studying how to be a more successful professional musician?"

      I love how posts that are questions are modded insightful. Folks, questions indicate a lack of insight. This would more appropriately be rated "interesting."

      Anyway, this is one of those under the radar things that would likely only be answered if you were taken to court. If there's no tort, it's one of those tree-falls-in-the-forest things. Either way, my guess is that you'd likely be in the clear if you were xeroxing sheet music for practice, or if you'd burned a copy of a song for your band to listen to if you were planning on rehearsing and performing it. You could not reasonably claim fair use for making copies of entire music collections.

      When in doubt, think of how you would apply your personal laugh test if you were a prosecutor or a judge. If a musician told you that they were claiming production under fair use doctrine for gigabytes of pirated music because it might inspire them to be a more successful musician, your likely response would be "sheeyeah, right" and throw the book at them -- and there's your answer. But if it were something more reasonable -- such as the copying of sheet music for a single song, or a single CD track for your band to listen to and practice -- then you might take a pass.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
  16. The idiots aren't the RIAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The law should be black and white. "you can do this" and "you cannot do this". When you leave grey areas you get idiots like the RIAA exploiting them to make profit.

    IMHO there's nothing wrong if the creator of the work can set whatever license he wants - including (at his option) insane prices and unbreakable DRM.

    What the consumer should do is react to this by ignoring the obscenely licensed crap the RIAA puts out and starts supporting their local bands that'll let you listen to music without the threats and lawsuits.

    But as long as the consumer *WANTS* RIAA-locked-down crap (and they make this votes with their pocketbooks every day), the RIAA is indeed providing a valuable and highly-in-demand service to the consumer by making these copy-proof and outrageously expensive ($20 for a $0.20 CD) works.

    1. Re:The idiots aren't the RIAA by SilverspurG · · Score: 1

      Let's simply ignore that the virtue of the RIAA being strongly government backed, and backed by the major players in the industry, makes it financially extraordinarily difficult for anyone with a more fair business model to compete in the market.

      As for unbreakable DRM... I'm all in favor of it. I'm also in favor of the government staying neutral if someone breaks the unbreakable DRM. At some point, people are going to have to come to grips with reality and the reality is that nothing is unbreakable.

      The consumer wants RIAA crap? Hardly. The consumer wants music. Given current business models and the distribution of available resources (ie. cash) to concentrate in a handful of established social circles, I'd say the consumer doesn't have much of an option. Your average 8-18 year old isn't looking any farther than the mall to find music nor or they listening any farther than the ubiquitous AM/FM radio.

      XFM, Sirius, and internet radio is beginning to change some of that but until the politicians finally decide to separate their ego from their backsides it'll all end up the same as it is now.

      --
      fast as fast can be. you'll never catch me.
    2. Re:The idiots aren't the RIAA by Frodo+Crockett · · Score: 2, Informative

      IMHO there's nothing wrong if the creator of the work can set whatever license he wants - including (at his option) insane prices and unbreakable DRM.

      Fine, but their right to tell me what to do with their work ends as soon as I hand over the cash. Then it's my copy, and they can kiss my ass. I'm not sharing it, but I'm sure as hell gonna do whatever else I want with it, including finding a way around any DRM.

      What the consumer should do is react to this by ignoring the obscenely licensed crap the RIAA puts out and starts supporting their local bands that'll let you listen to music without the threats and lawsuits.

      You can also go to places like CD Baby and Strange Fortune that specialize in indepentdent music. I was gonna also link one of my old favorite trance artists, Minister, but he's got an obnoxiously loud audio loop on his front page. :-/ If you look him up, turn the speakers/headphones waaay down before the page finishes loading.

      --
      "The newly born animals are then whisked off for a quick run through a giant baking oven." --heard on Food Network
    3. Re:The idiots aren't the RIAA by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      The trouble is that the RIAA represents most "good" music out there. Why? Because either one of the RIAA members will sign up an artists as soon as it gets popular enough or will just buy-out the non-RIAA company that represents them.

      Your assumption seems to be that there is a lot of good music outside the RIAA and although "good" is highly subjective, statistically most music which is generally considered good is owned by RIAA members.

      Saying that an average 8-18 your old isn't trying to find good music is basically saying they have bad taste, which is just plain ridiculous. Who says these people aren't looking but just didn't find anything else they think worth listening to?

      This is not an attack on you personally but this argument is used quite a lot whilst being highly subjective. For the large majority of consumers, RIAA-backed music is more to their liking than the music produced by non-RIAA companies.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    4. Re:The idiots aren't the RIAA by Travelsonic · · Score: 1
      statistically most music which is generally considered good is owned by RIAA members.

      Isn't the RIAA music what the public is exposed to the most? No wonder the statistics are tilted in the RIAA's favor, not only that, but somehow they aquire this almost zombie brainwashed notion that if it isn't made by this or that company (in this case RIAA backed lables and artists), then it sucks, which in my opinion is inaccurate. If they had a balanced influence of indie and RIAA the statistics would be different.

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
    5. Re:The idiots aren't the RIAA by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying that indie music sucks. I wouldn't dare say such a thing since it is just a retarded notion that ones opinion is better than somebody elses, which I'm trying to steer clear of here.

      All I'm saying is that practically every indie music that gets somewhat popular is eventually signed by an RIAA-backed label.

      Acception this, logic dictates that overall, the majority of popular music ("popular" meaning statistically considered "better" by the large public) is RIAA-backed.

      This in turn dictates that non RIAA-backed (or "indie" if you will, though this really doesn't cover the spectrum very well) music is in general, less popular. To therefore say that such music is better is saying the taste of the large majority of the population is inferior to your own. That is a purely subjective statement, and an arrogant one as well.

      Worse yet, to blindly assume that this majority would in theory prefer indie music is atleast as "zombie brainwashed" a notion as the one you complain about, even more so perhaps if accepting the statement I put forth several paragraphs ago regarding RIAA sucking in most popular indie music.

      Unless ofcourse you think music stops being good as soon as the RIAA starts backing it ;)

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    6. Re:The idiots aren't the RIAA by Travelsonic · · Score: 1

      All I am saying is that RIAA backed music is considered the best becasue it is the only one the public for the most part really gets to hear, and that if they had more independent, music, then they would be able to judge on quality of the song with less of a bias, although there is no gaurentee that they will like some/most/all independent music in the first place.

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
  17. Re:Perhaps you can adapt my Canadian letter? links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please write your MP on this matter. Use my letter below if you don't want to write your own.
    Send your letter for free (no postage necessary), to your MP at the following address:
    [your MP's name] M.P.
    House of Commons
    Ottawa ON K1A 0A6

    Find their email address, but write by paper mail too. http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/people/hou se/PostalCode.asp?lang=E

    Dear Mr. Breitkreuz
    To summarize the issues in this letter:
    1. Internet Service Providers should not be required to keep extensive logs of private and legal online communications.

    2. The government must not stop Canadian citizens from making personal-use copies of their legally purchased software, music, and movie media.

    Background:
    http://pch.gc.ca/progs/ac-ca/progs/pda-cpb/reform/ statement_e.cfm

    Here is the reasoning:
    The purpose of the Copyright Act is to support creativity and innovation in the arts and culture. To design a new Act on the failed and draconian Digital Millenium Copyright Act of the United States of America, would be a disaster for Canadian culture, and innovation. Also our court system could become clogged with law abiding citizens who make personal use copies of their music, software, and movie collections for no personal financial gain. An implementation of the proposed changes to the Copyright Act would unleash another "Gun Registry boondoggle" onto the Canadian people - creating criminals out of law abiding citizens at the expense of Canadian taxpayers.

    Internet Service Providers like Sasktel should not be made to keep extensive client usage logs for possible future prosecution by various copyright-based industries. I don't want to pay for that system to be put into effect, and I don't think most people do. The phone companies are not forced by the government to record the content of phone conversations, only police can do that with a proper warrant. ISP logs are going to be equivalent to phone-taps, and that's a violation of my privacy. It's doing the job of the police, and is for the sole benefit of an industry basing its profits on an outdated business model that is no longer realistic for the Canadian government to protect.
    It is completely unfair to be paying a levy to artists organizations for purchasing blank CD media to make home-use private copies of legal CD music, and now to also be unable to legally copy the music I've paid for off of Digital Rights Managed CDs. If copying CD music is going to be illegal, why is the government collecting money from the product for an illegal activity? I'm satisfied that the current levy is helping to compensate artists from illegitimate copying, and no new law is required to prevent me and other people from making sensible backups of our legal music, software, and movie collections.

    Your representation in the House of Commons on this matter is greatly appreciated by me, and other supporters of personal liberty and innovation in the arts. I look forward to hearing from you.

    Sincerely,
    my name

  18. If it's such a problem... by Sheetrock · · Score: 1
    Why do you guys keep electing the people that pass this stuff? You've got mandatory voting, so you've got to get the word out to everyone you know what's happening and who's doing it.

    Don't keep putting people back in control who don't represent your interests.

    --

    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    1. Re:If it's such a problem... by Kinky+Bass+Junk · · Score: 1

      Intelligent people don't eat the crap that they feed us, but unfortunately the majority of our voting population mis gullible.

      --
      Anonymous Coward
    2. Re:If it's such a problem... by asaul · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure - and 49% of Americans didnt want Bush either.

      Its called democracy, and the problem with it is unless more than 50% of people think like you, you are probably going to be disappointed.

      Also I doubt that a majority of voters were considering copyright issues when they cast the ballot, especially when most propaganda/lies/election material focused on interest rates, Iraq and some song and dance about a first time challenger.

      --
      "If everybody is thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking" - Gen. George S. Patton
    3. Re:If it's such a problem... by killjoe · · Score: 1

      It seems like the Australians prever heavy handed govt. Are they the same in NZ?

      --
      evil is as evil does
    4. Re:If it's such a problem... by Frodo+Crockett · · Score: 1

      Sure - and 49% of Americans didnt want Bush either.

      49% of voting Americans. Half of the country doesn't vote. So just about one-quarter of Americans wanted Bush out badly enough to vote for Kerry. The question is, do you want the ones who don't care to vote? Think carefully before answering.

      --
      "The newly born animals are then whisked off for a quick run through a giant baking oven." --heard on Food Network
    5. Re:If it's such a problem... by _merlin · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't have mattered because the opposition's package didn't differ on IPR laws, anyway.

    6. Re:If it's such a problem... by asaul · · Score: 1

      Yes - because otherwise only those motivated (i.e with an agenda) vote. Sure, probably 90% of those who dont want to vote will either:

      a) donkey vote (number down the ballot)
      b) vote whoever is the most sexually attractive
      c) vote based off hearsay.

      At any rate, it is still a truer indications of a nations feelings than if only those with a vested interest force their choice of government on the rest. At least with a compulsory vote a goverment cant risk being overtly bad, because you cant always assume the people will be complacent enough to forget.

      Election time bribes help though.

      --
      "If everybody is thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking" - Gen. George S. Patton
    7. Re:If it's such a problem... by foolAloof · · Score: 1

      Why do you guys keep electing the people that pass this stuff?

      Because the other candidate is offering a much worse alternative? When you have to choose between a one-day old pizza and a two-day old pizza, it doesn't really matter what you choose; you'll get pretty much the same stuff.

    8. Re:If it's such a problem... by Frodo+Crockett · · Score: 1

      The problem is that if the popular vote becomes more important, lobbyists and special interest groups will just focus more attention on the populace. Picture a mass-mailed letter from the RIAA:

      Dear Mr./Mrs. X

      We at the Recording Industries Association of American would like to inform you of a grave threat to American culture...blah blah...drm good...fair use bad...have a free Napster download...please vote for these representatives who support our campaign to defend American culture:

      Rep X
      Rep Y
      Rep Z

      Yours truly,
      The RIAA


      Can't you picture this? Compulsory voting isn't the solution to the problem. The problem is education and ignorance. People who are well-informed are more likely to make wise decisions. People who aren't will vote with their emotions, or, perhaps worse, vote based on hearsay.

      --
      "The newly born animals are then whisked off for a quick run through a giant baking oven." --heard on Food Network
    9. Re:If it's such a problem... by mcsporran · · Score: 1

      About that sig..... Yoda not Spock star WARS....not star Trek.....

      --
      This is NOT a signature.
    10. Re:If it's such a problem... by mcsporran · · Score: 1

      The NZ goverment is very differnet from the Oz goverment ( both in structure, and currently ideology, they signed up for a free trade deal with China...a proper free trade deal, all to do with bying and selling, as opposed to enforcing your outdated business models on a reluctant product. The OZ-US "Free trade" deal is anything but.

      --
      This is NOT a signature.
    11. Re:If it's such a problem... by mcsporran · · Score: 1

      Reluctant populace......

      --
      This is NOT a signature.
    12. Re:If it's such a problem... by dbIII · · Score: 3, Informative
      Why do you guys keep electing the people that pass this stuff?
      It was complicated, but here's a summary: First there were the poeple that were called queue jumpers who didn't go through the proper channels of the legitimate Afganistan government to get to Australia, the government stirred up a lot of feeling. Then when 911 happened these aforementioned refugees fleeing the Taliban were named as potential terrorist pretending to be refugees so they could come to Australia and wreak havoc - millions were spent stopping them coming ashore. This and other teflon moments happened - popularism backed up by creating a culture of fear. Another stunt was to get as many people as possible to borrow to buy property and then say that the other guys would raise intrest rates (which happened anyway without the other guys getting in). The Australian economy is booming - due to borrowing overseas to build lots of houses. The USA experienced several boom-bust cycles in exactly the same way in the 1800s.

      Sadly, redneck politics works so long as you can point to a minority that people don't think much of - and locking them up for years on a flimsy pretext wins votes, even if you accidentally lock up a blond haired blue eyed locally born Qantas hostess as an illegal immigrant for months by mistake, or deport one of your own citizens by mistake! It's not really about racism, or even being authoritarian - it's about getting votes and general incompentance.

      I had a flatmate who voted for the party that were going to put him out of a job (abolish his government department), and he knew it - popularism is powerful.

    13. Re:If it's such a problem... by Frogbert · · Score: 1

      The current government lies and then claims it didn't. It often does this but people believe them and keep on voting. Plus the competition was weak and people frighten easily.

    14. Re:If it's such a problem... by drsmithy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It was complicated, but here's a summary:

      You misspelled "massive, partisan over-simplification". HTH.

      Sadly, redneck politics works so long as you can point to a minority that people don't think much of [...]

      Indeed, because the Loony Left's alternative of just letting everyone and anyone in with no immigration control at all is _so_ realistic.

      [...] - and locking them up for years on a flimsy pretext wins votes, even if you accidentally lock up a blond haired blue eyed locally born Qantas hostess as an illegal immigrant for months by mistake, or deport one of your own citizens by mistake!

      Cornelia Rau was German-born (not "locally born"), carried no identification, only tried to communicate in German, identified herself to authorities as a German citizen, used several false names and IIRC even claimed she was in the country illegally. While I don't condone what happened to her, and I welcome any procedures that streamline and improve the processes dealing with illegal immigrants, when you look at it with some semblence of objectivity, the chain of events that unfolded *is* rather understandable.

      Of course, if the Government had one of those big, interconnected databases with every citizen in it that authorities all over the country had access to, the situation probably wouldn't have happened...

      I had a flatmate who voted for the party that were going to put him out of a job (abolish his government department), and he knew it - popularism is powerful.

      Or maybe he just thought they were the best pick of a bad bunch (wouldn't be saying much).

    15. Re:If it's such a problem... by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      Why do you guys keep electing the people that pass this stuff?

      Because not everything they do is stupid.

      Don't keep putting people back in control who don't represent your interests.

      The problem is politics doesn't have a fine enough granularity. When you agree with 50% of a party's policies, disagree with 25% of them, couldn't care less about the remainder *and that's the closest anyone comes to being representative*, you've not got a great deal of choice. You can't lodge a vote for party A on topics XYZ, party B on topic W and party C on topics U and V.

    16. Re:If it's such a problem... by asaul · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I do picture this because I have been through several Australian elections. Every single advertisement is along those lines i.e blatent bunch of misrepresentation, small disclaimer - vote X.

      Sure, a good portion of the populace swallows it hook line and sinker, but if you leave only the "educated" to vote you are also most likely only leaving the wealthy and those with an agenda who allready enjoy great power. You also spend your entire election listening to grand promises to get people just to vote, instead of proposals for a better future.

      At least with the unwashed masses voting, the government is less likely to come out with a "let them eat cake" type platform, because you can only push an idiot so far before they fight back. You never always get the best, but you dont get the worst of what a government can do.

      The current Australian government would love nothing more than to change the voting system so that it was non-compulsory and harder for young people to vote. Why? Because they know that in that case the only people voting would be the party faithful, and the opposition would never get back in without the support of blue collar workers. But still, for now they have power - they are getting ever so cocky with it too, until the point they go too far and the entire country agrees it is time for a change.

      It isnt always what you want, but its better than a constant state pseudo-dictatorship run by the Liberal party (Aust equivalent of the Republicans) because only the rich vote to protect themselves.

      --
      "If everybody is thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking" - Gen. George S. Patton
    17. Re:If it's such a problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I to know your pain. I had a flatmate that voted 'that way' cause he didn't like free health care... he's self employed and has no savings, so if he did get sick his bussiness would quickly run out of money and would be rooted. Anyone votes one way or the other thinking that they will get lower tax is an idiot, tax NEVER goes down they just tax other things.

    18. Re:If it's such a problem... by dbIII · · Score: 1
      when you look at it with some semblence of objectivity, the chain of events that unfolded *is* rather understandable.
      Yes, incompetance on various levels - greater worry about laibility and who to blame than actually doing any work. For instance - the state prison that was asked to hold her by the immigration department was blamed for not doing checks on her - which is what the immigration department was supposed to. Setting expediency as a policy is the problem - the party doen't matter.

      if the Government had one of those big, interconnected databases with every citizen in it that authorities all over the country had access to
      They didn't use the resources available in anything resembling an effective manner - since it doesn't really matter how these things are run in terms of votes.
      just letting everyone and anyone in with no immigration control at all is _so_ realistic.
      And saying that is what happened ten years ago is? If you are going to give a private group draconian powers over people you want to be sure that it's the right poeple first, you want to be sure that they are not abusing that power, and then you want to be sure that they are not robbing you blind in fees to look after those poeple. The for profit immigration camps have failed on all of these counts.

      Anyway, the point was popularism - and it has been shown that making a lot of noise about immigration gets you votes in Australia, which is most likely why we keep voting the current lot in.

      I still find it strange that even after 911 it was assumed that the Taliban was not a legitimate thing to flee from - the "queue jumpers" were supposed to have gotten permission from them first and were shipped around the Pacific in an expensive comedy aimed to stop them setting foot in Australia. We'll never know if it was a one off thing or the first wave of some enormous tide of illegal immigrants stopped by weird laws about migration zones, but I suspect the latter is too unlikely to stand up to more than a few seconds scrutiny. However, there's a lot of votes in it - and redneck politics is not restricted to any one party, it's more about individuals who use it, and once it surfaces poeple from a range of parties use it.

    19. Re:If it's such a problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically you don't have to vote here as long as you show up at the booth and get your name marked off. You can then just put in a blank ballot or write 1337 in all the boxes or something equally unusable. It won't be counted and obviously nobody will know it was yours due to voters' anonymity.

      I guess they figure that if they can force people to bother to turn up, they'll probably bother to vote. It probably works.

  19. It would be fair if we could just buy directly by mgv · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think the whole situation with the FTA would be alot more fair if we could just buy things directly from the US. At least we could access the benefits of a large free market.

    For example, we can't buy songs from the Apple USA store. The Australian price for a song was about $1.69 Australian according to some sources when the Austrialian apple store went online briefly before being pulled. At that price its way more than the US resident pays, even allowing for currency conversion rates its no more than $1.39 allowing for a profit on currency conversion.

    And all the stuff about australia being a small market, etc, really doesn't wash to much when the website is already developed, etc, by apple. Particularly as Apple doesn't try to make much of a profit on all of this, the money all goes to the music industry. The majority of the songs will be common with the US site and shouldn't cost a cent more than it does in the US.

    Just another example of greed by the **AA.

    Michael

    --
    There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
    1. Re:It would be fair if we could just buy directly by Frodo+Crockett · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For example, we can't buy songs from the Apple USA store.

      Have you tried using a proxy server located in the US? Tor might fit the bill, as I'm sure many of their end-of-the-line proxies are located in the US.

      --
      "The newly born animals are then whisked off for a quick run through a giant baking oven." --heard on Food Network
    2. Re:It would be fair if we could just buy directly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um, you need an american credit card as well

    3. Re:It would be fair if we could just buy directly by strider44 · · Score: 1

      why? Wouldn't a visa card be functionally the same no matter where you get it?

    4. Re:It would be fair if we could just buy directly by Frodo+Crockett · · Score: 1

      um, you need an american credit card as well

      Those are fairly easy to get. ;)

      Or, you could just order some iTunes gift cards from Amazon. They ship to Australia.

      --
      "The newly born animals are then whisked off for a quick run through a giant baking oven." --heard on Food Network
    5. Re:It would be fair if we could just buy directly by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      why? Wouldn't a visa card be functionally the same no matter where you get it?

      IIRC from the 2600 mags I read when I was younger, the first few digits denote credit card type and the bank it was issued. It's unclear to me whether anyone pays attention to this bit of info, but in theory one could have a database of offical US banks. I tried to give such a list to an ISP who had issues with someone logging on and using a checksum generator so they could at least have someone to contact to verify the name on the card, but alas they were not interested. But when ever you order anything via credit card on a website they normally require your name and address.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
  20. Huh? by Bigthecat · · Score: 2, Insightful
    From the article comment:

    "As we're getting our own version of the DMCA thanks to the Australia-US Free Trade Agreement"

    For some reason here in Australia people online have suddenly made a big hoo-haa about the Free Trade Agreement bringing the DMCA here and it makes me sit back and wonder where they were 5-6 years ago since it is already here and has been in effect for quite some time: Copyright Amendment (Digital Agenda) Act 2000.

    Not too long ago it was used in the Sony v Stevens case (and succeeded in the appeal) to make PS2 modchip sales illegal in Australia.

    It's a bit late to be worrying about the affect of the DMCA in Australia now: We've had it for five years.

    1. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It isn't about the DMCA. It is about being cool and bitching about the US.

    2. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The FTA is well worth complaining about for other reasons. The 'free' lunch seems to be all one way -- Australians are locked out of US agricultural markets for another 15-18 years, for example (at which point the US government of the day will probably tear up the treaty anyway).

  21. Re: Complain more. by EvilCabbage · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A while ago now there was talk of a forcing ISP's into a 'net filtering scheme.

    I got vocal with my local members of parliment, then members outside of my area but within my state, then federal.

    On my own, I don't know what difference it made, but logic came out and it got smacked down. Let's imagine there were a few thousand other people like me bothering them at every level, explaining as gently as possibly why it was an insane idea.

    Make yourself heard as often and as loudly as possible. You will eventually wear the bastards down.

  22. LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am genuinely surprised when these comments get modded down. It is the "in" thing to hate the U.S. these days around here. Maybe you weren't subtle enough.

  23. US Copyright law isn't really draconian. by drsmithy · · Score: 0

    Seriously. It's probably one of the least draconian versions out there (consider, for example, in the EU where copyright is considered a *human rights issue* and that ludicrous idea of copyright extending past the death of the creator originated).

    1. Re:US Copyright law isn't really draconian. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What isn't a "human rights issue" in Europe?

    2. Re:US Copyright law isn't really draconian. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, not in the EU i live in.
      Here, you can do backups of IP stuff you (legally) bought. Furthermore, it's _illegal_ for an IP owner to forbid you (juridicaly or technologically) from doing it.
      You may backup in any format you want.

      Copyrights last a certain amount of time, which has nothing to do with the average human life expectancy. Hopefully: think about any moral body who'd own some IP stuff and would keep living centuries.

      I would _never_ trade our copyright legislation for the US one.
      And don't joke to much with human rights. We don't let any dickhead talk publicly about freedom again and again like the CEO of USA does.
      I mean, what does this guy actually know about freedom? He'd be as relevant talking about nuclear fusion...
      We haven't seen as much 'freedom' related propaganda since the Soviet Union.

      In a similar way, and to fulfill a famous quote, no state ever talks about morale as much as the third Reich did. Period.

  24. NO TROLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just because you don't agree with someone's comment does not mean they are a troll.

    He makes a very valid point. US trade laws are enforcing not just copyright laws on other nations, but the horrid mess that is the DMCA. I'm all for protecting publishers writes and all and feel that US trading partners should do the same, but it's bad enough the DMCA is in america. We don't need to spread this anywhere else.
    --
    Don't fight Firefox! Let FireFox fight YOU!

  25. Same thing in NZ by Gurp · · Score: 5, Interesting
    New Zealand has more or less the same law - it's illegal to convert music from CD to MP3. Not surprisingly our government is assessing the same ammendment to the law. Not quickly or anything, but they are thinking about it.

    Why not give people the right to format shift, the review panel says, we're all doing it anyway, and everyone assumes it's legal, not to mention that the recording industry is not out of pocket if someone format shifts.

    Also not surprisingly, RIANZ (NZ's RIAA) is opposing it like crazy because of some nonsensical argument about... well... I don't know... the end of the world occurring if someone makes a copy of a CD they already own for personal use.

    Read the government's web pages about it here. The relevant part is under "New Exceptions".

    1. Re:Same thing in NZ by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      Why not give people the right to format shift, the review panel says, we're all doing it anyway, and everyone assumes it's legal, not to mention that the recording industry is not out of pocket if someone format shifts.

      They are if you use the same logic that says they're out of pocket when someone _downloads_ an MP3.

  26. *Cough* *cough* *splutter* *splutter* by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Interesting
    rant
    Part of the free trade agreement was the pushing through by the US drug companies to stop Australian government subsidies of prescriptiion drugs to our own citizens. The Prescription Benefits Scheme (PBS) is a part of the larger Medicare scheme that all Australians contribute to via their taxes. It is effectively getting the government to make a large co-payement on drugs, so that unfortunate citizens don't get driven broke by huge drug costs iin order to treat afflictations that did not choose to suffer. That co-payment is then amortised across the whole country.

    But the US drug industry cried "unfair to us", and got the FDA to screw up our internal systems for the sake of their profits.

    As a person who has relied on specialised drugs in the past, this annoys the hell out of me, especially when seeing people I know in teh US suffer from the same affliction but not be able to afford the drugs. So I can see trouble looming ahead for us.

    But what really takes the cake is the Bush recently announced his own PBS scheme for seniors in the US. If it is such a good idea, why did he allow the FDA to be manipulated so that it was sqaushed in Oz?

    Free trade agreement? I think not.

    /rant

    --
    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    1. Re:*Cough* *cough* *splutter* *splutter* by notAyank · · Score: 2, Funny

      As an Australian, let me explain my thoughts about the FTA and it's IP scariness into language you Americans might understand: "You can have my iPod when you pry it from my cold dead hands."

    2. Re:*Cough* *cough* *splutter* *splutter* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While we are ranting..

      In my opinion free trade agreements are a large joke that should be tossed in the trash where they belong.

      Why are they a joke? It is because they only level 1 part of the playing field leaving the rest possibly completely out of whack. I.E. do to rules and regulations it is completely impossible to compete with cheap exploitable labor in other countries. Unless you also equate equal work, environmental, etc standards, just saying "free trade will fix all" is naive at best.

      No, the best you can do is arrange each country on a case by case basis. By doing that you might be able to influence labor and environmental standards around the world. Of course you have to do things gradually, but anyway..

      Back to fair use. Companies basically want any use they can make a profit on to be not fair. Thats not going to change, and as long as they can afford to pay so many lobbyists I can't see the direction changing. Is it reasonable for a company to be making profit off a couple weeks work by a songwriter/singer (or whatever) that he did 30 years ago? On the face it seems silly, but perhaps I'm missing something..

    3. Re:*Cough* *cough* *splutter* *splutter* by Windowser · · Score: 1
      Free trade agreement? I think not.

      You just have the wrong definition of Free Trade. Take the one from the US government : It's ok to give a little if you receive a lot.

      --
      Avoid the MS tax, always buy I.B.M. PC's (I Built-it Myself)
    4. Re:*Cough* *cough* *splutter* *splutter* by dooleys · · Score: 1

      You see to have a bad cough there, perhaps you should buy something over the internet for it. The free trade agreement http://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/negotiations/us_fta/f inal-text/ did not stop any subsidies on prescription drugs. The only mention of the PBS was in an exchange of letters http://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/negotiations/us_fta/f inal-text/letters/02_pbs.pdf What it comes down to is that US drug companies would rather get their drugs on the PBS list (where they make a large sale but at a wholesale price) because if they are not on the list they won't sell any.

    5. Re:*Cough* *cough* *splutter* *splutter* by cerebis · · Score: 1
      An elaboration on how the PBS functions might shed more light on the situation. Very roughly, the PBS convenes a board, who using studies, both local and international, considers the potential benefit any new drug affords the public. The price of that drug is then determined by its value relative to what current drugs offer, and this of course relates to the illnesses it treats. The ultimate goal of the process being the cool and objective assessment of value, free from marketing bias.

      Federal regulation also heavily regulates the marketing of drugs directly to the public. You will not see any advertising on Television for the plethora of prescription drugs that you see advertised in the US. This of course severely curtails the drug companies' ability to market directly to the consumer, the purpose of which has always been to prompt the consumer to desire what they might not actually need or substantially benefit from. This tempering of pharmaceutical demand is very important when a country attempts to offer a socialized health care system. Blow-outs in cost for unnecessary, expensive or ineffective treatment, can lead to its ruin. To put it short, treatment efficacy in benefit/dollar terms is very important.

      The drug companies have of late been trying their best to concoct methods of getting around these limitations. They of course will look to find weak points at which to apply pressure. Entanglements produced as an outcome of trade agreements would be one obviously way in. The Australian health care system is already under pressure from rising costs as we live longer and treatable illness becomes increasingly possible.

      There are experts that believe the pricing system employed by Australia should be used as a benchmark. The pharmaceutical industry on the other hand hates it.

    6. Re:*Cough* *cough* *splutter* *splutter* by msim · · Score: 1

      Too frigging right, i doubt anyone over in the US heard about how detested it was (and still is) over here. But basically the screwups, uhm i mean changes that were introduced for the FTA were put in by a few people that wanted to have a good old suckup to George and his co-horts (i.e. John Howard).

      FFS we bent over and took it like a fucking $2 whore.

      --

      Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
  27. OT:Re:US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The parent post is turning into a Moderation war.

    1. Re:OT:Re:US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moderation +3
      40% Underrated
      20% Troll
      20% Insightful


      And yet it's modded Funny overall.

      Well, that sure as hell makes no sense O_o

  28. No, it isn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The whole point of the DMCA is that it isn't natural, on the contrary, its whole purpose is to restrict a "natural" property of digital content, namely zero marginal costs of distribution.
    Now you may of course argue that such restrictions are necessary, but don't simply claim its natural, because that simply false.

    "Until someone abolishes for-profit content, it's silly to say the DMCA is purely evil (flamebait MUAHAHA) which it isn't, well not as much as most slashdotters believe."
    Ah, I see you have learned your /. ways, claim something without providing an argument for it.

    "Furthemore the hammer of the DMCA rarely falls on joe user..."
    That's simply false. That they are clearly targeting joe user is one of the main problems a lot of people see with things like the DMCA.

    "but then again he was stealing IP no matter which way you look at it it was wrong"
    Nope, he was breaking copyright, not stealing anything, least of all intellectual property, whatever this dumb phrase is supposed to mean.

    "The laws are there primarily for the big boys, the major piracy groups and would be piraters alike"
    Again, this is simply wrong. First off all, laws are there for everyone, and further, looking at what the RIAA does your claim simply isn't support by facts.

  29. KHAAAAAAAAAAN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  30. Re:Same thing in NZ - Egad!!!! by grolschie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From Judith Tizard's Amendments Proposed for Copyright Act:

    "Prohibit the supply or manufacture of devices, means or information that circumvent technological protection measures, where circumvention could enable infringement of any of the copyright owner's exclusive rights, and provide criminal penalties for large scale commercial dealing in circumvention devices, means or information; "

    ISPs are commericial enterprises that deal in large scale supply of information/data. Bye bye Internet. ;-)

  31. Let me sum it up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You do not have the right to:

    Copy music
    Copy movies
    Copy software

  32. Check out how backups are treated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Our glorious Australian copyright law gives us the right to make backups. Yep! Even if it's against the EULA.

    But...

    That's just the executable. No sound, text, or images can be backed up.

    Politicians and public servants are paid to make up ridiculous inconsistent laws like that.

    Sux to be us. :-(

    1. Re:Check out how backups are treated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Naah, It's not inconsistent at all. You're just looking for it in the wrong place. It's absolutely positively completely consistently ridiculous. Always has been. Always will be. It's a natural consequence of the unholy marriage of politicians and civil servants.

  33. DVDs by tqft · · Score: 3, Interesting

    BEGIN rant

    We can't get everything that is Region 1 coded in Region 4. Hacking your player is probably illegal.

    One DVD store worker actually recommended I download the stuff I was looking for because it is never going to be released here in Oz.

    rant END

    --
    The Singularity is closer than you think
    Quant
    1. Re:DVDs by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      We can't get everything that is Region 1 coded in Region 4. Hacking your player is probably illegal.

      It's not, actually. Indeed, the ACCC has even specifically identified region coding as an anti-competitive practice.

      Region-free DVD players are a dime a dozen. Indeed, if anything, region-restricted DVD players would be ruled illegal first.

  34. RIAA/MPAA hates the Internet FULL STOP! by pandrijeczko · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Let's make no bones about it, the Internet and the Web have allowed us all to become a lot better informed about any products that we buy - this means that before we buy DVDs, CDs, etc., it's usually not that difficult to find a review of the product first.

    Go back 10 years and I myself was buying many more CDs and (then) VHS videos purely because the type of stuff I was buying wasn't necessarily reviewed in a magazine somewhere and I took a lot of chances by just buying many of these products - most of the time I was severely disappointed.

    Nowadays, I can just fire up Google and read a review...

    The fact is that both the music & movie industry now sell a higher proportion of low quality sub-standard products that they push through advertising & hype. However, with a much more informed consumer base, it's more difficult to sell those products successfully.

    So let's be clear about this, the issue is not about "fair use", it's actually about the MPAA and RIAA stopping the flow of information across consumers because bad "word of mouth" reviews do more harm to sales than anything else.

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  35. How about they define 'unfair' use by NigelJohnstone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They should define unfair use and work from that.

    Unfair use- any use that results in a tangible loss of potential income from the copyright holder from the sale of the copyrighed material (i.e. not from the carrier or from any appended item*).

    So it follows that fair use is anything that doesn't cause a tangible loss of income. Private copies for your own use are fair, transfer between media types are fair. Mix tapes for the wife are fair, mix tapes for distant friends are not fair.
    Recording TV programs for yourself or close family is fair, recording TV programs and selling them is not fair.

    *If they also define it as the copyrighted material itself (not including any carrier) that they earn a profit from, then it stops that Lexmark crap where they attach the copyright material to a toner cartridge and pretending the whole cartridge is the copyrighted material.

    1. Re:How about they define 'unfair' use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand, if copyright prevented you from making private copies, then you'd have to pay in order to have two copies in different formats. In a similar manner, we can conclude that any copying at all results in a tangible loss of potential income.

      In fact, being allowed to listen to the same CD for ever, instead of being required to keep paying to the copyright holder, is clearly an instance of "tangible loss of potential income".

    2. Re:How about they define 'unfair' use by NigelJohnstone · · Score: 1

      " then you'd have to pay in order to have two copies in different formats"

      Except you wouldn't, just like Australians rip their recordings into MP3 format now, even though its technically illegal to do so -> no tangible loss.

      "listen to the same CD for ever"
      Again, people take backup copies even though its technically illegal -> no tangible loss.

      Thats why I included 'tangible', it has to be a real world loss, not some imagined number pulled from a PR executives ass.

    3. Re:How about they define 'unfair' use by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      Unfair use- any use that results in a tangible loss of potential income [...]

      Settle down, tiger. What's with this "potention income" rubbish ?

      (I have a "potential income" of several million $$$ a year - where do I send my claim to ?)

      So it follows that fair use is anything that doesn't cause a tangible loss of income.

      Indeed. Fortunately we've already got words for this - "theft", "fraud" and the like - and plenty of existing laws to deal with them, as well.

      Loss of "potential income" is a fairy tail. If you didn't have it to start with, you can't lose it.

    4. Re:How about they define 'unfair' use by NigelJohnstone · · Score: 1

      "Settle down, tiger. What's with this 'potention income' rubbish ?"

      All earnings for copyright are 'potential' not 'real' that's the situation with copyright:
      Theft is loss of something, it is a *real* loss.
      Copyright infringement is loss of *potential* future income which may or may not have been realized if the copyright infringement didn't happen.

      I'm suggesting use of the word 'tangible' to avoid the intangible claims made for copyright losses as claimed by the MPAA and RIAA. Copyright infringements that result in a situation where the loss of income isn't likely to cause a tangible loss would be declared fair-use.

      (Read my comments relating to 'tangible' I made to the AC above.)

    5. Re:How about they define 'unfair' use by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      All earnings for copyright are 'potential' not 'real' that's the situation with copyright:

      Not true at all. There are, for example, lots of singers, writers and movie stars who are millionaires because of copyright - their earnings most certainly are not "potential", they are "realised".

      Copyright infringement is loss of *potential* future income which may or may not have been realized if the copyright infringement didn't happen.

      Corrent. No loss has been suffered. No "potential loss" can be demonstrated - even by the most lax definition of "proof" - as being anything more substantial than my claim to be "potentially" worth a few million a year.

      I'm suggesting use of the word 'tangible' to avoid the intangible claims made for copyright losses as claimed by the MPAA and RIAA.

      I know. The trouble is you then completely remove its meaning (and hence any ability to avoid frivolous claims) by introducing the meaningless word "potential".

      You cannot have a loss that is both "potential" and "tangible". Heck, you can't have a "potential loss" *at all*.

      A metaphor to make the point:

      Scenario A) Your wife walks out on you and takes half the house and the kids with her.

      Scenario B) The spunky 19 year old up the road you've been watching through binoculars for the last 5 years (waiting for just the right moment to ask on a date) loads all of her belongings into her boyfriend's ute and moves to the other side of the country.

      These examples represent a "tangible loss" and a "potential loss", respectively.

      In the music executive and "intellectual property" lawyer's minds, scenario A and B are equivalent. Personally, I think they're very different.

    6. Re:How about they define 'unfair' use by NigelJohnstone · · Score: 1

      'You cannot have a loss that is both "potential" and "tangible". Heck, you can't have a "potential loss" *at all*.'

      Don't get too stuck on the word potential:

      1. You have a class of things (copyright items) some of which have their earnings already realized -> tangible earnings.

      2. Some of that class of things have yet to have their earnings realized -> potential earnings.

      I'm suggesting that nobody buys a second copy of a CD as a backup now -> no tangible earnings now, -> no potential earnings in the future -> legal fair use.

      If you can suggest a better wording that captures that then please go ahead and suggest it.
      The point I want to get across is that its all about the money, not the infringement of copyright.
      If an infringment of copyright doesn't result in a loss of money for the copyright holder (based on previous tangible experiences) then its not a problem and is legal fair use.

    7. Re:How about they define 'unfair' use by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      2. Some of that class of things have yet to have their earnings realized -> potential earnings.

      Yes, as I keep trying to get across - *they don't exist yet*. Therefore, *they cannot be lost*.

      Some more examples consistent with your logic:

      If I invest in the stock market for 5 years and get a 10% return, but then the following 5 years I only get a 5% return, then I've "lost" something.

      If I test drive a car, then decide not to buy another car, then the original dealer I went to has "lost" something.

      Hopefully these (along with my previous one) illustrate why the whole concept of trying to legislate for "potential earnings" is just silly.

      People should be paid *once* for the work they do *now*. Not paid over and over again for the work they did fifty years ago.

      If you can suggest a better wording that captures that then please go ahead and suggest it.

      I can't because I fundamentally disagree with the objective you're trying to reach. IMHO copyright is a broken concept.

      If an infringment of copyright doesn't result in a loss of money for the copyright holder (based on previous tangible experiences) then its not a problem and is legal fair use.

      The problem you (and anyone else) has is trying to allow for some sort of "future earnings" or "potential earnings" on by the "artist", without allowing anyone "acting on behalf" of artists (ie: the RIAA or equivalent) to rort the system. Unfortunately, it's not going to work.

      I know the point you're trying to make, I simply disagree with it (strongly) because it's really no different to the system we have now - effectively all you're arguing for is the same system with reduced punishments. The problem isn't the punishments, the problem is the system itself. Copyright has been obseleted.

  36. Complain more, but follow the rules or be ignored by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm going to make a submission, but I'm going to write about 3 or 4 of them and just send the last one.

    The first one will be hateful and vitriolic and definitely not suitable for family viewing.

    The second one will be completely off topic, but will point out in no uncertain terms what utter jerks they all are.

    The third one will argue the case but in emotive language and will probably contain swearing.

    The last one will (hopefully) be fully on-topic, reasoned, restrained, and may even get read one day.

    In short, once I get it toned down to the point where I'd be happy to read it aloud to my Mum and maybe the Pope, then I'll send it.

  37. Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme by darkitecture · · Score: 1

    The Prescription Benefits Scheme (PBS) is a part of the larger Medicare scheme that all Australians contribute to via their taxes.

    Sorry to rain on your rant, but it's not the Prescription Benefits Scheme, it's the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.
    http://www.aph.gov.au/library/intguide/SP/pbs.htm

    Rants have far more sway if they're accurate.

    1. Re:Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      omfg he missed one word when he spelled out his TLA.

      obviously the rest of his argument has no merit at all.

  38. Sort of obigitory... by stimpleton · · Score: 1


    ...but in this case its not said as tonque in cheek joke but more of a statement of fact:

    Australia has welcomed their new American overlords.

    --

    In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
  39. Priorities by t_allardyce · · Score: 1

    Why is it that in America you have the right to shoot anyone on sight if they're trespassing, but in your own home you don't have the right to take out a screw-driver, open up your DVD player and tinker around?

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
    1. Re:Priorities by failure-man · · Score: 1

      Because, in America, the gun lobby has as much bribe money to throw around as the entertainment industry.

    2. Re:Priorities by t_allardyce · · Score: 1

      Ah, so if the pedophile lobby had enough money...

      The rules need to make sure a senator cant so much as take a shit without it being logged: where, when and who paid for the toilet.

      --
      This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  40. USA-style copyright is better because... by indaba · · Score: 5, Interesting
    From point 7.12 of the paper..

    1. The open-ended fair use exception is broader in scope than the Australian fair dealing exceptions, which are restricted to specific purposes.

    2. The fair use exception is technologically neutral and does not require revision through legislation.

    (I would think that the benefits of both these facts is obvious to all.) From me:

    1. Greater harmony with USA laws is appropriate because of the FTA

    2. '('time-shifting') is a fair use (Sony Corporation v Universal City Studios 464 USC 417 (1984, S.C ('Betamax decision'). ' this is NOT the case in Australia.
    IMHO it should be.

    3. a more harmonised legal environment will allow the better funded USA EFF to fight the good fight in the USA, and we can then reap the downstream benefits in Australia. (sorry about the self interest)

    4. Law should be a reflection of how people think society should be ordered. The vast majority of Australians think that they can :
    - record TV on their VCR's
    - move music from CD to MP3

    the current Australian law is not in harmony with these views, and as such Australians are commiting technical breaches of the law every day, mostly unwittingly. And the AG says so in the intro page.

    This is wrong, as law should serve the people, not the corporations.
    Now I need to go and read that paper in depth, but that's my first thoughts. :-)

    1. Re:USA-style copyright is better because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Above deserves to be modded up.
      Question: How many Australian Politicians own video recorders and MP3 players and the like? Does the AG have his family 'prosecuted'?. If the above claims are true, and these acts are now 'criminal', the pollies and dept. sheads can be booted out if so convicted.

      Better make copyright infringement non-criminal if no 'profit' is gained, lest their own families get nailed. Beats me how drink driving or 'joyriding' can get a caution, yet taping a CD is a whole lot worse.

  41. I think you're being "whimsical" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Joe User is receiving a perfectly legal copy from someone who is sharing it with him"

    I buy almost everything else in your post, but however you spin it, the copy is _not_ "perfectly legal". You (and I) might wish that the laws allowed Napster-type redistribution, but they most certainly do not.

    It isn't stealing.
    It isn't "piracy" (or at least the term "piracy" should not be used for this type of activity).
    It most definitely _is_ activity that is prohibited by the terms of purchase of the original CD. Don't pretend that the laws allow sharing of "perfectly legal" copies, because they do not.

  42. What about backup copies? by demon_2k · · Score: 1

    We should be able to have backup copies of content or be able to convert it to other formats that are playable by the hardware and/or software the consumer owns.
    It really pisses me of that i am in region 4 and i happen to like some content that just happens to be reguin 1, 2 or 6 that are not available in Australia.

  43. Problems with fair use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem with fair use is that it's inherently limited. Fair use is a poor solution to the problem from our perspective (where we are aware consumers) because it allows huge encroachment against rights that we've had in previous times just by default. I hope all those of the Australians who whine on this thread will go and join a political party immediately after hitting submit if they're not already a member of one. EFA's(www.efa.org.au) probably a good idea too.

  44. Translation: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Someone high-up in Attourney Generals got an iPod for Christmas - and started asking questions when they went back to work.

  45. trespassing v. burglary v. breaking and entering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    christ almighty, the harvard law graduates are out tonight. no, you cannot shoot trespassers in america. the standard for shooting BURGLARS varies from state to state, but the idea is that someone in your home committing a FELONY (which is what burglary is) is likely to present a threat to your life, particularly when it happens at night in the dark as burglaries often do.
    It's possible that someone shooting a trespasser would be acquitted if you find enough rednecks to fill a jury. Hence the huge controversy about 5-10 years ago about the wayward Japanese chap who was shot by the hick in Louisiana. The jerk was acquitted, which happens to Exhibit A for showing the downside of jury nullification to people who think that acquitting racist murderers stopped happening decades ago..

  46. DCMA et al. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The thing about all this 'patent' harmonisation attempts by the united states through dubious free trade agreements is all to do with intellectual capital, or more accurately, the monopolisation of capital to suit those who matter. As everyone is aware, Australia, like with most of the world (the exception perhaps being the EU and Japan) are net IP importers. That means Australia will continue to rack deficits with the US through trade practices (and laws to suit) that favours businesses with huge amounts of intellectual capital. While this may not be such a problem for a developed country such as Australia - how about latin american nations and africa who will most likely be perpetually screwed with such a scenario.

  47. Re:Complain more, but follow the rules or be ignor by EvilCabbage · · Score: 1

    You make an excellent point.

    I was rather venemous about the proposals in various areas, but in my 'official' correspondance I couldn't have sounded sweeter and I encouraged others to do the same.

    Swearing and moaning about an issue might impress your buddys, but when you're dealing with people that consider themselves the 'upper crust' of civilisation, you need to use some longer words and occasionally even a thesaurus. Important not to talk down to them either.

    I'd hope that would all go unsaid, but I guess you can never be too careful ;)

  48. They are currently in America. by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

    They are filming "The Memphis Trousers". Pretty amusing :-)

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    1. Re:They are currently in America. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they are not filming that in the staes mate, they are filming it in the Ultimo studios in Sydney - thats why every person in the audience is an Aussie... Its all toungue in cheek.

  49. Hey. by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

    Welcome to the world of Australian taxi drivers.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  50. Can't own a gun huh? by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

    No, we just can't own semi-automatic and automatic rifles, you drongo.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  51. Free trade agreements by ChaosCube · · Score: 2, Insightful
    "As we're getting our own version of the DMCA thanks to the Australia-US Free Trade Agreement..."

    The more I read about these so-called "free trade" agreements, the more I have to laugh. Take this quote for example. What about a DMCA-like provision is considered free? It seems to me that these contractual clauses are just a world wide extention of US policy. Adopt our laws, or we close down trade channels, etc, etc. What a silly way to do business...

    --
    BDR Gear
    Outdoor gear, MREs, and more!
  52. Actually... by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    ... I always laugh when I hear this. The US was founded by a bunch of people fleeing persecution from the British, who were quite willing to do horrible things to them in their thousands. They lived their lives to a strict moral code, true, but I doubt you'd be looking into the causes of that because for that you'd need half a brain.

    Perhaps if more people studied church history we wouldn't hear these particularly stupid comments everytime we get to the old "Australia the land of convicts", "Oh yeah? You guys were founded by uptight Puritans!" retorts.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    1. Re:Actually... by AmericanInKiev · · Score: 2, Insightful

      nobody's arguing the puritans left england as the persecuted - what it objectionable is the way they so quickly became the persecutors.

      Having Killed the Indians, they used the Bible to justify slavery, and continue in that vien to seek out and destroy weak and underrepresented populations.

      The Baptist are now telling people how to vote - or be ex-communicated.

      so their point in coming here wasn't to "Avoid" persecution. It was to re-establish persecution on their own terms - and this is what is objectionable.

      AIK

    2. Re:Actually... by dbIII · · Score: 1
      The US was founded by a bunch of people fleeing persecution from the British
      and a lot of others - including a lot of transported convicts. Read your own history. Australia was founded because convicts could no longer be transported to America.
  53. They are currently in America. by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

    They are filming "The Memphis Trousers Half Hour". Very amusing :-)

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  54. Re: Complain more. by EvilCabbage · · Score: 1

    Nice link, but almost three years old.

    This was far more recent, about six months ago it raised its head again.

    It got smacked down harder than Ike on Tina.

  55. Well, just remember... by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

    ... he hates you because you're free.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  56. You're kidding. by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No way is option 3 or 4 any good! The fair dealing legislation is a joke. In this regard, the U.S. is in a FAR better position that Australians are. You are aware that the fair dealing legislation is VERY narrow and only covers those who are doing:

    1. Research and study
    2. Review and criticism
    3. "Reporting the news", or
    4. Legal advice (although the Crown is deemed to own copyright in federal statutes, and each State in state statutes).

    You'd think that research and study would be pretty good, but noooo. You MUST demostrate that you are doing some particular course to even get close to this. You cannot be doing private research and reproduce any of the material on a medium such as a blog, etc.

    Only number 1 (consolidate the fair dealing exceptions in a single open-ended provision) seems reasonable to me. And that is only good if clear legislation is formed.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    1. Re:You're kidding. by Skrybe · · Score: 1

      I think you missed the point of what this process is about (either that or I've misread something). Sure the *Current* fair dealing provisions are lousy. But they're talking about reviewing and extending those fair dealing provisions to cover other areas of fair use that benefits private individuals such as time shifting and format converson (and possibly other things too).

      At that point the legislation will cover those fair use areas that it's missing so we will gain new protection that we currently lack.

  57. Draconian Freedom (TM) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another fine product from the USA... ;)

  58. Digital imprimatur by tepples · · Score: 1

    Once Bob the indie down the street can't sell his stuff non-DRM'd and you can't play it, come back and talk about this.

    If you're talking about a digital imprimatur, then what you suggest is already true in the case of computer programs for video game consoles.

  59. NZ copyrights by mdew · · Score: 1

    Infact New Zealand has been reviewing the copyright law too, I'm still waiting for these new rivisions to make it legal to format-shift music.

    The strange thing is, it only applies to music, dvd's and other video medium, you're bound by law not copy or "format-shift".

    --
    http://www.fanboy.co.nz/adblock/
  60. A $0.00 charge to your credit card by tepples · · Score: 1

    Or, you could just order some iTunes gift cards from Amazon. They ship to Australia.

    But as I understand it, you still need a credit card or debit card so that Apple can make a 0.00 USD charge to verify that the buyer is in a territory serviced by Apple's licensors. Yes, these licensors and their policies differ from territory to territory.

    1. Re:A $0.00 charge to your credit card by Frodo+Crockett · · Score: 1

      In that case, combine Plan A with Plan B and you're good to go.

      --
      "The newly born animals are then whisked off for a quick run through a giant baking oven." --heard on Food Network
  61. That was the family first party by arduous · · Score: 1

    That was the Family First party:

    http://www.familyfirst.org.au/policy/internetfilte ring100904.pdf

    Here's a snippet:
    "A Newspoll study found that 93% of parents of teenagers would support automatic filtering of
    Internet pornography going into homes"

    Well duh!

    There is normally one of the minor parties that waves the "internet porn" flag at each election, and nothing ever happens, because in the end, its:
    1) Very expensive and time consuming to implement
    2) Easily bypassed.

    --
    "It's the smell! If there is such a thing." Agent Smith - The Matrix
    1. Re:That was the family first party by EvilCabbage · · Score: 1

      Family First weren't the only ones pushing it, but they were the most vocal about it.

      Oddly though, they did not respond to any of my emails or my phone calls. Clearly not in any great hurry to stand by their ideals.

    2. Re:That was the family first party by mitsuhama · · Score: 1

      they can filter it all they want. on the client end, not the server end. leave my traffic alone

  62. Region switchable players by tepples · · Score: 1

    It really pisses me of that i am in region 4 and i happen to like some content that just happens to be reguin 1, 2 or 6 that are not available in Australia.

    Didn't the ACCC, Australia's antitrust agency, make a ruling that region lockout is an anticompetitive practice and thus all DVD Video players sold in Australia have to be region switchable?

    1. Re:Region switchable players by riprjak · · Score: 1

      No, the ACCC successfully argued that you cannot prevent a person or organisation bypassing CSS OR selling region free players. This doesnt force people to sell region free players but does protect from prosecution those who do.

      The waters got muddied with a PS2 pirate who was also selling mod chips; but the basic tone of the judges response to sony was, paraphrased "Its a bloody movie and I dont care how it is turned into moving pictures, I just expect to be able to watch those pictures".

      err!
      jak.

    2. Re:Region switchable players by What+me+a+Coward · · Score: 1

      Sounds like the kind of judge that we need more of here in the states LOL. :D

      --
      Coward? Coward! Thems fighten words!!
  63. Care to state the legal basis for your argument? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought not, since there isn't one. It's just a bunch of hot air since it wouldn't stand a chance in the real world of corporations, courts, etc.

  64. Americanization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then all you'll need will be a theocratic science-hating moron as a leader, to bankrupt you in failed wars :)

  65. Whaaa? by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    Quotes from the article:

    "it's technically illegal here to convert songs from CD to MP3, or to record a TV show unless it's a live broadcast"

    followed by:

    "or adopt an open-ended 'fair use' policy similar to that used in the US" (seems like they're saying this is better than what they have now)

    followed by:

    "if something isn't done to broaden copyright exceptions we'll end up with even more draconian copyright restrictions than the US." (except that it isn't better)

    Wierd...

    1. Re:Whaaa? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That makes perfect sense, if you know a bit about the current situation.

      Currently, Australia doesn't have broad enough definitions of fair use (things that you're allowed to do despite copyright), e.g. you're not allowed to convert music you've legally purchased to another format.

      Additionally, Australia has signed a treaty with the US which requires them to pass laws that further strengthen the protections of copyrighted works.

      Currently they are also considering broadening fair use rights, making them more similar to those that the US has.

      So basically the previous situation was that the US had more draconian copyright laws but more broad definitions of fair use, and Australia had less draconian copyright laws but extremely limited exceptions for fair use. Australia considering broadening their fair use would avoid them ending up with the "worst of both worlds".

  66. Yeah, I know. by Grendel+Drago · · Score: 1

    We Americans get all shocked and "send him to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison!" at the sight of sixteen year old pornstars, but you Aussies are quite copacetic with the idea.

    (No, seriously. Go to Hush-Hush.com and read their terms of service. I can't paste it in here, 'cause I'm at work and we have a proxy filter.)

    --grendel drago

    --
    Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
  67. Illegal Inaliens by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Copyright law itself is the exception: a temporary, artificial monopoly created by the government to allow intellectual property to act like real property in an otherwise free society. Exceptions to that exception are liberty peeking through. Because otherwise, free people will just violate the copyright law, undermining both intellectual property and the government that created it. That's what the first American nationalists meant by "inalienable rights": take them away, and the people will take them back. Copyrights have to be fair to the people, or the people will violate them. The copyright balance is a fundamental dissonance between liberty and capitalism, "free" and "priced"; getting it wrong threatens to destroy not only the property, but also to ripple through the basic moral respect government requires to govern.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Illegal Inaliens by GrassyNoel · · Score: 0

      Under the law, 'real property' has a special meaning. When you wrote that, you actually meant 'personal property', which is quite different. 'Real property' is land, which belongs to the Crown no matter who holds the title to it. This is why we have 'title deeds' to land, but not to things like CD players. But I digress.

      Under the 1968 Copyright Act, it is legal to copy one chapter of a book for personal use, e.g. as study notes. I wonder, is it also legal to copy one track of a CD for personal use? And if so, why not the whole album, one track at a time?

      --
      Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
  68. "Copying" should not be an issue by thisissilly · · Score: 1

    Copyright law should be focused on unauthorized distribution of copies, not with the act of copying. Let people copy, time shift, format shift, etc to their heart's content, as long as they are not distributing their copies to other people, the law should not be concerned!

  69. Licensing vs. DRM by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The big clash that was always going to happen is between DRM and anti-circumvention laws (an absolute requirement for the distributors to be able to prevent copying) and fair use rights (an absolute requirement that the distributors cannot prevent copying in certain cases). Note that the latter is very different to fair use exemptions (which is all you currently have in most jurisdictions, if you have anything at all) because the exemption says "If you can copy it, then the act is not illegal", while the right says "The distributor must not prevent you from copying it".

    There isn't really much scope for compromise here. The distributor can never have rock solid controls on copying anyway (it's technologically implausible) and even if they did, they'd then have to undertake to provide copies as the law requires, such as on any new media format, or for backup (which is financially implausible and not future-proof), so that idea isn't really worth pursuing, legally or technologically.

    Immovable object, meet irresistable force.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:Licensing vs. DRM by Skrybe · · Score: 1

      I think you're right on the money there. And to take that further I think ultimately the decision over whether we get an exemption of a right is how much money certain "interested parties" throw the way of Govt. We'll see a similar situation to Harradine controlling issues from a few years back.

  70. Interesting idea, but does it go deeper? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1
    If an infringment of copyright doesn't result in a loss of money for the copyright holder (based on previous tangible experiences) then its not a problem and is legal fair use.

    What if someone's motivation for distributing their work isn't financial? The GPL is a somewhat poor example here, since Stallman's usual argument is that without copyright you wouldn't need the GPL, but in that case the key thing is that if you redistribute the material, you may only do so together with offering certain rights along with it. Here copyright provides protection for a moral position, not a financial one.

    I think the proposal in question has merit as a practical measure, but it's slightly missing the deeper issue: the point of copyright is to encourage the creation and distribution of new works, by encouraging those who create such works to distribute them in exchange for some sort of "return on investment". There's nothing in that argument, either legally or morally, that requires such a return to be financial.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:Interesting idea, but does it go deeper? by NigelJohnstone · · Score: 1

      Surely its not copying that causes the GPL violation, its distributing a modified version of the result as part of your own product. So I don't see how that definition of fair use would break the GPL.

      The idea of non-monetary gain is worth considering, what would you consider as valid in place of money? e.g. You can use this code, but have to let me have enhancements -> reward in kind.

      I'm pushed to see why it should be an offence to make copies without some sort of monetary gain. In GPL case it would be fair use to copy, but breach of contract to modify without disclosure.

    2. Re:Interesting idea, but does it go deeper? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1
      Surely its not copying that causes the GPL violation, its distributing a modified version of the result as part of your own product.

      Agreed.

      So I don't see how that definition of fair use would break the GPL.

      If the definition of infringement is tied to whether or not anyone lost any money, and that person had given the software away for free (but with other strings attached, as with the GPL), then there's no case that financial damage was done. However, distribution without the accompanying usual format source code (say) would clearly violate the permission given by the original creator of the work.

      In this case, at present, copyright law might provide for an injunction requiring those breaking the distribution rules to comply and/or to stop distributing the work, regardless of the absence of financial damage. Under the proposal here, I don't see how that would be the case. There is nothing to require anyone receiving code that's given away at no financial cost to honour the requirements of the creator, and thus no incentive for the creator to release the work in the first place.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    3. Re:Interesting idea, but does it go deeper? by NigelJohnstone · · Score: 1

      "There is nothing to require anyone receiving code that's given away at no financial cost to honour the requirements of the creator, and thus no incentive for the creator to release the work in the first place."

      I'd prefer to keep the 'financial' aspect in place since it makes it clear what is and is not fair use. As far as I can see all thats needed to enforce GPL is a click-through license to be able to use basic contract law.

  71. Great fun with this copyright stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you roll out a DMCA or similar you can sit back and enjoy the complete "truth is stranger than fiction" thing, as your printer refuses cheaper equivalent cartridges, that don't have a chip in? Why having the ink in a holder is copy protection I don't know.
    Next your toaster will refuse some non rfid tagged slices of bread :)

    1. Re:Great fun with this copyright stuff by riprjak · · Score: 1

      :) Fortunately such activities would most likely be viewed as an unfair barrier to trade by the ACCC.

      You see, in Australia we have a statuatory body with the power to enforce consumer protection.

      As the DMCA only relates to copyright, then they would be unable to enforce it against a physical product anyway. They would need to patent the specific method of operation for the printer cartridge in order to legally prevent people manufacturing copies.

      Whilst we have to add a DMCA for the FTA, it doesnt impact on existing consumer laws or legal precedent. Our courts have been quite hard on the symmantics of "its got some software in there so we can get copyright protection" since they tend to see the intended and expected function as more binding under law.

      Thats just my take anyway.

      err!
      jak.

  72. This is great but also vaguely unnescessary by riprjak · · Score: 1

    Firstly, modernising our copyright laws is a great thing! Australians should act to provide input to the deliberations.

    However, "Fair Use" enshrined in copyright is not specifically nescessary in Australia. The copyright laws here are more to do with "Users" and "Owners" of copyright. Consumers dont fall into either category (unless they start selling illegal copies, when they become "Users" of copyright, illegal users at that). However, if I buy a CD in Australia, as a consumer, I am entiteled to certain protections. I am entitled to use it as I see fit and it must function as advertised (a CD must play in any device I could reasonably expect it to play in). This allows Australians the right to claim their money back for copy protected CDs that dont play in a CD player or to bypass said copy protection to allow them to play said CD.

    Like DVD region zoning; in Australia a consumer can freely bypass CSS to allow them to watch a DVD as this is what they reasonably expect when they purchase it.

    The reason we need Fair Use is to allow media shifting; as this is not as clear cut a case of reasonable expectations protected under consumer laws.

    Essentially, rather than our CD being considered a product, we need the law to recognise that it is both a physical product that must work (see comments above) AND a virtual product. IE, we actaully buy music to listen to; we should be able to listen to that music via any medium we see fit.

    Let me be clear, I personally DO NOT agree with wholesale sharing of music files. In my opinion this is offside. However, I see nothing wrong with sending a friend track 6 off my new album to show them how cool it is or ripping the entire thing to my iPod and the hard drive of my car stereo. I would like this not to be technically illegal. Im also not certain we need to water down copyright to add this protection to consumers; this could easily be covered in statuatory consumer protection and policed by the ACCC.

    Anyway, my rambling $0.02...
    err!
    jak

  73. Yep, I know that. by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

    I was more addressing those who attack America for being founded by Puritans. The way they talk, you'd think that they were the only ones to found your country!

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.