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Nintendo Revolution Details Emerge
Pyrohazard writes "Nintendo has posted some details on the Revolution to their official site, finally giving us some insight into what the console will be like. From the site: 'It will be about the thickness of three standard DVD cases and only slightly longer.' This makes it the smallest Nintendo console yet! It will also be able to stand up, similar to the PS2, and the Xbox 360. It will be backwards compatible, and it will also play '12cm optical disks in the same self-loading media drive'. It also states that it will have a very quick start-up time, and be very quiet. It finishes by stating 'Get ready for the Nintendo Revolution in 2006!'" C|Net has an article up arguing that Nintendo is making an error in missing the 2005 Holiday season.
It also states that it will have a very quick start-up time, and be very quiet.
Aiming to capture the market for game-playing wabbit hunters.
I guess the big N are counting on this console once again appealing to hardcore gameplayers, especially since you can't watch DVDs on this.
Are they making an error ?, possibly but depsite selling less consoles than sony and about the same as MS, the gamecube was supposedly very profitable. THe margins were supposedly higher and nintendo reckoned that the gamecube was never sold at a loss despite its low price.
In short Nintendo don't neccesarily have to shift more consoles than Sony and MS to stay in the console game.
I'd argue that Nintendo might be better served waiting until *after* the Christmas season. There's been several "OMG I must have!" Christmas toys that nobody can find, everybody's going onto Ebay and bidding hundreds of dollars for.
Then there's the games/items that come out in say, January, and do well. This strategy has served Blizzard very well with their "ship when its done". In some ways, Summer is actually a better launch date (kids getting out of school) and using that as a steady segway into greater sales.
Of course, this is just my opinion - I could be wrong.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
Water cooling doesn't mean the xbox360 is faster. It could be designed crappy, with bad airflow. Hell, if the revolution is that small, it wouldnt need water cooling. Also, the water cooling could've been added to make the xb360 sound that much powerfull, a marketing ploy, which if true, you've fallen for.
Check out this fan made video. It's really well done.
mirror 1
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Article about video
I do agree with the cnet artical that nintendo are going to miss a major sale period here if it is not out till 2006 but they may as of yet pull it forward .
,Which is a very good thing as we don't need another loud large monster console.
.Though let me put my pundit hat on , besides the normal conectivity ala the GBA and the gamecube i suspect the reveloution may have the ability to download the data from the cards and allow you to play GBA or DS games on the big screen using the DS as a wireless controler (with the touch pad screen perhaps still working as normal ) and perhaps multi player DS games can be played with Reveloution controlers for some titles which dont have a touch screen (unless nintendo take a leaf out of the dreamcasts book and include a screen on the controler , albeit with touch pad functionality. ;) so dont cite me on it.
Looks like they are taking a leaf out of the mac minis book with the form factor
Its wonderfull they have confrimed backwards compatability which will be very important in giving them a good start with a cataloug of games though they may be missing out here if they don't include some form of DVD playback.
I have argued a few times that its not the features that sell a console but the games , but all things being equal otherwise the features can make or break the sale.
I am awaiting news of the conectivity with the DS , this is pure idle speculation
That is pure idle speculation though
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I think it could be a smart move. Think of it. The XBox and the PS3 will be going all out to steal each others' thunder, and the consumer market for consoles will be split. If Nintendo can handle staying out of the spotlight for a little while, and then show up the next year with a console superior to the other two and good lineup of games, all the attention will be focused on them. As it is, you could argue it's too early for a second XBox and a third Playstation. Nintendo's timing could be perfect.
It's interesting that all 3 console manufacturers chose IBM PPC processors this time around. It means that game developers programming in assembly language will only have to learn one. Too bad there aren't many left who do. (A fact of life when the bottlenecks move to memory/art/game-logic).
Because the GameCube used PPC, it looks like Nintendo will be the only one with an (relatively) easy backwards compatability story. The PS2 could perhaps be emulated since it was only a 300Mhz MIPS processor, but I pity the person that has to write the emulator for the pipelining stages on the VUs. Microsoft has not said whether they'll be backwards compatible, but I predict the answer is no.
Didn't Nintendo's president say in a press conference just a few months ago that the Revolution will actually have some feature that is "Revolutionary" that no one has seen before and will change console gaming forever? I remember a slashdot article about it but I cannot find a link to the specific "story" I'm thinking about.
:)
Perhaps something about the controller?
Or perhaps some obscure feature that we'll hafta wait longer to see?
I was hoping to see something about that in this article but I guess I will hafta wait longer... If anyone has a link to what I think I'm talking about, I'd appreciate it.
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"(Update 05/13/05) I have had a couple of readers that commented on Microsoft stating that the Xbox 360 was "water cooled." While this might be technically true, it carries a very heavy marketing spin in order to glom onto an enthusiast technology. To be succinct, the Xbox 360 is not water cooled in the way we, meaning just about every computer hardware enthusiast on the planet, tend to think of water cooling. The Xbox 360 motherboard we were shown did have a CPU heatsink in place that utilized a heatpipe. Yes, a heatpipe does have liquid in it and some H2O as well, but is usually primarily ammonia. In a heatpipe, the liquid at the "hot" end vaporizes, and is moved to the "cold" end of the heatpipe by a pressure differential and convection. Once the heat is transferred to the fins in the cold end, the substance condenses and the process repeats. The CPU cooler we saw on the Xbox 360 processor looked very much like this CPU cooler seen at Plycon except the Xbox 360 cooler was taller than wider and only utilized one copper heatpipe tube."
Link -> http://www.hardocp.com/articleprint.html?article_i d=768
Given the size of this beast it may well be that there is practically no air gap inside the box. This would enable Nintendo to use the whole surface area of the box as a heatsink.
If this is designed correctly you could make convection currents work for you and turn the whole room into your air space.
Aside from that it does sound like the big N is going for user experience inplace of raw power. Lets assume that it is a small cute box that will provide maybe twice the performance of the current GameCube (unlike the order of magnitude promised by the xbox 360 and PS3), can be sold at rock bottom prices, say $150, on launch day and acts as a centeral hub for mad multiplayer DS parties.
I'd say thats a winner.
There's not going to be an MTV special since The Revolution won't be televised. (rimshot)
It is good to maintain backward compatibility, Nintendo will have an easier time getting people that own a GameCube to buy their new console - just as Sony had an easier time getting people who owned the Playstation to buy the Playstation 2. This will give them an easier time with launching this new system.
Not only that, but as the new console generation pops up starting this Christmas, people will take into account which system has the most enjoyable games - if Xbox 360 doesn't have a solid number of good games at release time and isn't able to play Xbox games, they may find people holding back to get a Playstation 3s or Revolutions because of the already present game catalog.
I'm rooting for Nintendo, they've had some extremely fun games on the GameCube with a massively higher ratio of good games to bad when put alongside the Xbox or Playstation 2. The Mario sports games have all been excellent and enjoyable, rather than a pretty simulation of the sport like the EA and Sega sports titles carried by the competition.
I'm sick of following my dreams - I'm just going to ask them where they're going and hook up with them later.
if I wanted a big, loud games machine I'd use a PC.
It's too soon for a new console. The games run fine on the old ones. If it's able to offer some mindblowing new content along with the intro, Nintendo is smart to wait for the 'compelling need' to drive it's sales through the roof.
There's also the aesthetic angle. Cultural preferences are rapidly moving toward Nintendos form factor and will be peaking in 18 months, not 6.
You don't have a DVD drive already? Their 40$ you cheap basterd, my dvd player was cheaper than the xbox dvd remote. Everyone has a dvd player, and nobody bought a xbox to play dvd movies. Nobody. I heard japanesse people bought the ps2 as a dvd player because it was cheaper at the time, but it wont be this time. The reason some developers didnt like the cartridge format is because n64 carts were like 8mb, and a cd is 700. Square likes cutscenes, which wouldn't fit on a cart. The Revolution uses 12cm discs, and theyre blu-ray discs if I recall. They will have equal, or near equal (possibly higher?) capacity then the xbox (still uses standard DVD's) and who knows for the PS3. Also, 99.99% of games dont use the full DVD disc anyway, so the gamecubes smaller (2GB?) discs weren't much of an issue. As I said before, the Revolution uses 12cm disks, with a higher capacity. Think before you post.
On the one hand it seems silly not to include it
If your video game console and your movie player are in the same box, and you want to play a game, then you have to sit on your @$$ and wait until an older sibling finishes watching a 12-hour Meg Ryan marathon. There's a reason why Nintendo has consistently priced the GameCube $50 lower than the PS2 or Xbox.
I wonder if the real "innovation" we are going to see with the Revolution has to do with the business side, namely that this box will be better focused in its purpose than Xbox360 or PS3. Perhaps in addition to being small, it will be significantly cheaper than the other boxes. I think if you look at where alot of game systems go (with the exception of Slashdot users and gadget freaks), they are not hooked up to the main TV in a house but to some secondary TV in a kids playroom, den, etc. Some of the media hub features discussed for these boxes are really overkill and not worth paying for if you just want a really good game system. I'll let my DVR evolve into a media hub and let the game system do what it does best, play games.
...is pretty clueless. Microsoft are the only console manufacturer rushing to get a machine out this year, as they see it as the only way to steal any market share from Sony. Sony and Nintendo are quite happy to keep pushing the five systems that they have on the market at present, and have no pressing need to rush out new systems to respond to Microsoft's stopgap.
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I'm unconvinced that 2005 launch will benefit MS as much as they think. This holiday season will already be mighty competive with PSP and Nintendo DS. Both handhelds will have a good selection of decent games by Nov 2005, and it will be the first holiday season for the PSP. Atop that, Sony will likely sell the PSP without the "Value Pack" option, which may bring down the price of the console to $199. Plus Grand Theft Auto and Grand Turismo (amoung others) will be out by then.
The Xbox 360 will also have to compete with people's willingness to wait for the PS3 and Nintendo Revolution. This may or may not be a factor depending on what Sony and Nintendo can deliver next week at E3. Remember, an early lauch didn't help Sega much with the Dreamcast (or the Saturn, which they forcefully lauched a few months early in the US to get a headstart on the PS).
If you also consider that the Xbox's life span was relatively very short compared to other consoles (launch 18 months after the PS2, and lauches ~12 months before the PS3). Many consumers that are not hardcore gamers, esp ones that have bought an XB in the last year or two, may feel perturbed that their recent purchase is already obsolete. To compound that, MS (as well as Sony/Nintendo) have to compete with other hot gadgets like the iPod that weren't around during previous console lauches that may appeal more to their core market(young-male adults) than gaming consoles.
Yes, because the absense of water cooling in the Gamecube meant the XBox was faster, too.
In all actuality, there is every indication to show that the Gamecube is for the most part every bit as powerful as the XBox, with the only real advantage the XBox has over the Gamecube is more memory, and arguably the hard drive (though since it's largely underutilized the fact that it isn't standard in the XBox 360 should speak for itself).
Anyway, when we start talking PowerPC instead of x86, the whole rules on heat and power as well as size totally change. It's entirely possible that the Revolution and Xbox could be more alike than unalike. Though with Revolution having Gamecube compatibility and the Xbox 360 not having much of anything, the XBox 360 could be more powerful and it would still have an uphill battle.
A large backlog of games to play can make or break a system. Anyone who doubts this needs to compare PSP and DS sales figures. (For those who haven't been watching, the DS is killing the PSP globally.)
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
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This information has been floating around the gaming sites for a few days now, but oh well. The really interesting stuff about what makes the Revolution a "revolution" has yet to be revealed however.
There's some interesting, but not ground breaking stuff that has been confirmed, like wireless controllers, DS connectivity, 802.11 internet connection, and free online gameplay, but the really interesting stuff is still just speculation. For what it's worth, my guess is that the "revolution" part of the console will be that the controllers have built in gyros. I've been playing WarioWare: Twisted since it hit the streets in Japan, and let me tell you what anyone who has played that title can tell confirm: twisting is the future. There's a great part of WW:T where you get to play the original Super Mario Brothers game by turning the Game Boy to the side to move forward while the world spins around under your feet. It's how the game was meant to be played!! I suppose the Nintendo critics will call a motion sensor a gimmick, but I really believe it has the ability to put some fire under the industry's feet.
Of course, there's a lot of other speculation that I'm not too sure about. Broken Saints claims that the Revolution will somehow display real 3-D on your TV screen, I guess using special glasses or something. That sounds unlikely to me. I've also heard that the Revolution will have a DS like touch screen controller or one that is somehow reprogrammable by the game, but I don't want to think about the ergonomics of that all. Pressure sensitive buttons does sound like a good idea, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that.
One interesting thing about Nintendo versus Microsoft is the different things that people focus on in their announcements. With the Xbox 360, everyone is talking about the 3.whatever GHz PPC chip. With the Revolution, everyone is talking about possible changes to the way games are traditionally played. It just goes to show the Microsoft is still more interested in the technology side of things, and Nintendo is more interested in the "innovation" (or, if you believe the detractors, "gimmickry") side.
...is that they treat games as art, rather than cheap entertainment. There's a huge amount of overlap, to be sure, but the difference in emphasis makes all the difference. It could be argued -- probably correctly -- that the masses want cheap entertainment and not art, but still, if Nintendo could cultivate a sort of elite Apple-esque image, rather than their current childish Disney-esque one, that'd work well for them, I think...
They've been saying how they realized that the look of the console matters. Hopefully this means they've grasped the larger concept that *image matters*, perhaps as much as everything else put together (they can have the best games out there, but if it's seen as an uncool thing to own, people won't own it*). However, from the rather narrow stuff I've heard from them (only talking about making it look physically better, nothing about the larger picture of *why* it needs to look physically better), I'm sadly doubtful...
* people suck
Work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively.
As I mentioned briefly on the N-Scene mailing group... I'll expand more here.
I really don't think this is video of the "Revolution" system at all, I think this is very likely the special "joystick" that was mentioned briefly a month or so back.
Watch the video closely, the video clearly presents this system as a 3-D proximity controller. They always show it on the floor in the middle of the room, and that it is sensitive to someone approaching it.
Also, I don't think this is specifically a Revolution controller either. Notice that it shows in one segment, output supported for TV and some other type of screened device, then in the next segment it shows that it takes input from the GameCube and a "?" device of about the right dimensions of the Revolution concept art that has been floating around.
Also there have been complaints that I have seen about the Mario art at the end, that it either looks like Luigi, or is bad art. Oddly enough, this is the common design for Mario on most PC and Mac based games. I'm not sure what that means, but there is a precedent for Nintendo to illustrate Mario like that.
No, this video is very much in line with something Nintendo would generate and potentially show at a press event, and the fact that it appeared on the net last week is either a testament that Nintendo is attempting to execute a buzz kill on it's competitors announcements... or a very serious security breach has happened within Nintendo.
Personally, what I would like to see is the end of the video, and I'm hoping we get to see it next week.
I think you will find that despite the smaller form factor with the Nintendo Revolution, it will probably still be on par with the PS3 and Xbox 360 given the extra time they will have in producing it. I will be amazed if even the PS3 is as large as the Xbox 360. Additionally, I beleive that the addition of multiple numbers of CPUs, all running at different Mgz clouds the overall power of the system, and makes a systems speed difference very negligable. I think this holiday season is the least of Nintendo's concerns. Nintendo has already stated that they are going after Sony as the top dog in the race. Stepping onto the market later is actually a good move and I think the Xbox 360 is coming to the market way too early. We have seen this happen with the Sega Saturn and the Sega Dreamcast. I also am strangely getting the notion that Microsoft is aiming its targets at Nintendo, and Nintendo is aiming theirs at Sony. And Sony is just content to be at the top. Why not try to challenge Sony? In the end, it is very possible there will be 2 leaders this time around, Sony and Nintendo.
Nintendo seem to be doing very well for themselves in the 'pathetic' third place. They're certainly turning a profit on the GameCube, unlike Microsoft for example, and have the best first-party games on any system, bar none.
There's no need to have a games library as large as, for example, the PS2's - how many of that system's games are really worth buying? There are plenty of simply excellent games available for the GameCube, and so long as Nintendo keep it up, I'll gladly buy their next system.
And tomorrow the stock exchange will be the human race
Are all these new console companies goin round in circles, one is called 360, the other is revolution, what next?! a console called elipse!
Can I have your sister's telephone number ?
There are quite a few mini-itx cases designed this way, where the case acts as a giant heatsink.
Another unexpected side benefit to this is that, if there's absolutely zero free space inside, and, it has to be exactly zero, there won't be space to put an internal modchip. An external modchip is going to be a pretty big turnoff for some people. Of course, this is more then a little unlikely, but, hey, it's possible, considering the formfactor.
I've been moving my controller to make mario Jump higher since the NES...
Oh you mean now it'll actually do some good? Awesome
This video has been making the rounds, it's a confirmed fake made by a college graphic artists, he hid "HIRE ME" and his email address inside the video on a few frames.
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
I'm alarmed by the prospect of the Revolution using DVD discs. Why this fear? I'm afraid that its limited storage space will limit game designers.
Right now you might be thinking, "Are you insane? DVD-9 discs can store 9 gigs of data! What do you mean, limited?" Well, here's what I mean.
As most people probably know, both the Xbox and the PS2 use DVD discs. They both support DVD-5 and DVD-9. The support for DVD-9 indicates something; some games are too big to fit on one DVD-5 disc. This can be conclusively proven by looking at some recent games, like Xenosaga Episode II (see the bottom of the page, "Lasting Appeal"), which use multiple discs. At smallest size, these games are unable to fit on a single DVD-5 disc. At largest, they're too big to fit on a single DVD-9.
That's a lot of data.
I recently read in an article (probably in Game Informer, though I can't find it at the moment) that many recent games, including Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, only barely miss filling a DVD-9.
That this is on the PS2. A current-gen system.
I think that says something.
What I'm getting at here is that games are getting bigger and bigger. There's no way around it. As our technology improves and our systems become capable of bigger and better graphics, we must supply more and more data in order to make said graphics.
If a PS2, whose capabilities are far eclipsed by the next-gen systems, almost requires multiple discs, how will those next-gen systems fit all their data in the same space? Better graphics require more data: bigger textures, more polygons, more custom shaders, etc. So how will it all fit?
And bear in mind that this isn't even taking into account the data needed for the actual game. A lot of code and other data is needed for the actual game. Furthermore, the Revolution is supposed to be, as Nintendo says, "revolutionary". How much extra code will it take to do cool things with these "revolutionary" features? A lot, I imagine.
This poses a problem. Where will all that data go? It has to go somewhere. Sure, wonders can be worked with compression, and yes, Nintendo has somehow managed to shove DVD-5 games from other systems into the 1.8 gigs offered by its proprietary format, but there is a limit to how small things can get. Furthermore, too much compression will result in decreased performance, which is a bad thing.
This is definitely a big problem. Sony got around it by flinging enormous Blu-Ray discs into its next-gen system, aided somewhat by the fact that it partially owns that standard. For Nintendo or Microsoft to use Blu-Ray would require licensing the technology, and you can be sure Sony would charge them up the wazoo for both the drives and the discs.
That's a problem.
The way I see it, both Microsoft and Nintendo are in trouble if they use normal DVD drives on their next-gen systems. Nintendo possibly more so, depending on the "revolutionary" aspects of their device, but this doesn't change the fact that they're both rather screwed.
For Microsoft, it looks like it's already too late; the Xbox 360 specs declare that it has a "12x dual-layer DVD-ROM". There is still some hope left for Nintendo, though, as they've only announced support for "12cm optical disks", which could be nearly anything.
Here's to hoping that Nintendo chooses something better than DVD-9.
I own itburns.net. What should I put there?
A DVD is 12cm in diameter. The article clearly stated that the Revolution would use a 12cm diameter disc.
... to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if the XBox360 is the Saturn or Dreamcast (hmm, both of those were next generation consoles released around a year earlier than the consoles that eventually killed them in the market), although any gaming HDTV owner will have to get one. At least it doesn't look ugly this time around.
As it is coming out in 2006, I expect that it will either be a Bluray variant, or a HD-DVD variant. I'm hoping it will be a HD-DVD variant. Why? Because I can buy a Revolution for the fun multiplayer games and Nintendo franchise games, and get a free HD-DVD player, and then I can buy a PS3 for the more serious action games, and get a free Bluray player! Either that, or it will be a standard DVD-a-like to cut costs.
The XBox360 is the loser here, everyone has a DVD player already. Maybe if it supported DVD Audio, and the console was silent to boot
"When the N64 came out, companies like Square could not release their games on the N64 due to cartridge format."
As pointed out numerous times already, FFVII used all that space for FMV. They very easily could have made that game for the N64. They chose not to. Back in those days, textures were around 4k. Even 8 - 16 megs is a lot of k's. The music was all midi. The characters were simply polygonal, most using goraud shading instead of textures. Etc. There would probably have been a few comporimises, but FFVII could have made it into an N64 cartridge.
"In reality, their proprietary format drives up cost for developers to use on their system. "
True for the N64, negligible for the GameCube. The reason the proprietary format for the N64 was expensive was because cartridges are just plain expensive. Optical media, nah. Make the disc a little smaller, change the format a bit. That wasn't anything but a minor change to the production facility. If it did cost more for the developers, it's doubtful it was by much. It was CERTAINLY nowhere near the difference between producing a CD and producing a catridge.
"And since Nintendo is continually losing market share to the XBox..."
Ugh. I hate getting into this argument. Are we talking world or USA here? The GameCube might be number 3 in the USA, but it's also killing the XBOX quite soundly in Japan. You may be thinking "so?" but imagine what the executives at Nintendo are thinking. Money's money. Even at 3rd place, Nintendo themselves produce AAA titles. Nintendo is going to react to their profit margins, not their market share. If Nintendo were to turn into Sony, would they really make more money? Sell systems at a loss? Produce cookie cutter games? Do nothing to ensure the market doesn't collapse like it did in Atari's age?
"I think Nintendo should really re-eveluate their stance on media drives."
The media drive isn't going to make the difference. It's the games. If Nintendo wants to give Sony hell, they'll need broader 3rd party support. At this point, the media won't make a difference. (assuming it has reasonable storage, anyway.) They need good hardware. They need good marketing. And they need killer apps at launch to get a few million into people's homes. From there, more developers will come out of the woodwork.
That is: IF they want to do that. The downside here is that store shelves get flooded with games. The problem is that Nintendo makes a killing on its first party titles. Less shelf space means less attention to their own products. Don't get me wrong, either way they make money, but they create a huge mess in their wakes.
"Derp de derp."
I'm not sure if I'm alone in this but I always thought of my GC as something a little bit different. I use my XBox for 'serious' games and PC Ports because I own a Mac, and to be honest £100 for an XBox seemed a lot more attractive than £1500 for a decent games machine.
I bought my GC for party games and genuine original content. I loved Monkey Ball, Doshin, Pikmin and Double Dash. The GC proved without a doubt that there was more to modern gaming than how many polygons you can process per second and how accurate your AI and physics engines are. I think thats what made it better for adults. When I was a kid I wanted more realism and violence, now I want more fun and originality.
This is why I'm excited by the Revolution as there will be something in there that is not obvious by the hardware specs, that will make it a worthwhile purchase - fun games.
Scared of flying, pointy things snce 1979!