Indian Government Keen on Open Source

manugarg writes "The Indian government is distributing free CDs of localized open sorce softwares like Firefox, OpenOffice.org etc. to encourage the use of computers across the country. ZDNet reports, 'The Indian government's decision to ship free software in this way likely will be a blow to Microsoft, which plans to release a low-cost version of Windows in India soon. Microsoft originally hoped to release its Windows XP Starter Edition--a low-cost, feature-restricted version of Windows XP--by the end of March, but it's now aiming for a June release.'"

Comments

open sorce softwares

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess spelling checkers isn't something they do

Re:open sorce softwares

[Felinoid]

Not sure what your trying to get at so I'll cover a wide range of possabilitys.

iSpell vs MsWord: Ms Word has some very bad habbits when it comes to spellchecking. There is some major defect that once triggered Ms Word will produce incorrect results.
One might accuse the Slashdot team of using Ms Word to find spelling errors.

Slashdot: Yeah they are kinda in a hurry. A normal newspaper will have profesional proff readers. Slashdot has nothing, nada, zip and nada III.

Lastly merging points 1 and 2.
Microsoft has a history of screwing up forgen languages.
If Slashdot was using a version of Linux localised for India they probably wouldn't have access to an ENGLISH spell checker.

Why Linux Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux is *not* user friendly, and until it is linux will stay with >1% marketshare.

Take installation. Linux zealots are now saying "oh installing is so easy, just do apt-get install package or emerge package": Yes, because typing in "apt-get" or "emerge" makes so much more sense to new users than double-clicking an icon that says "setup".

Linux zealots are far too forgiving when judging the difficultly of Linux configuration issues and far too harsh when judging the difficulty of Windows configuration issues. Example comments:

User: "How do I get Quake 3 to run in Linux?"
Zealot: "Oh that's easy! If you have Redhat, you have to download quake_3_rh_8_i686_010203_glibc.bin, then do chmod +x on the file. Then you have to su to root, make sure you type export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 but ONLY if you have that latest libc6 installed. If you don't, don't set that environment variable or the installer will dump core. Before you run the installer, make sure you have the GL drivers for X installed. Get them at [some obscure web address], chmod +x the binary, then run it, but make sure you have at least 10MB free in /tmp or the installer will dump core. After the installer is done, edit /etc/X11/XF86Config and add a section called "GL" and put "driver nv" in it. Make sure you have the latest version of X and Linux kernel 2.6 or else X will segfault when you start. OK, run the Quake 3 installer and make sure you set the proper group and setuid permissions on quake3.bin. If you want sound, look here [link to another obscure web site], which is a short HOWTO on how to get sound in Quake 3. That's all there is to it!"

User: "How do I get Quake 3 to run in Windows?"
Zealot: "Oh God, I had to install Quake 3 in Windoze for some lamer friend of mine! God, what a fucking mess! I put in the CD and it took about 3 minutes to copy everything, and then I had to reboot the fucking computer! Jesus Christ! What a retarded operating system!"

So, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that what seems easy and natural to Linux geeks is definitely not what regular people consider easy and natural. Hence, the preference towards Windows.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[X1011]

Linux is *not* user friendly, and until it is linux will stay with >1% marketshare.

Aww, you mean that linux will always have more than 1% marketshare and never go below 1%? I'm disapointed.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[ScrewMaster]

Well. And then there's Linspire.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[suitepotato]

This is absolutely true and though I've been a geekoid sort for years, I don't have the genes for arrogant assumption of superiority based on my interests and likes versus the common world. Therefore, I get called a troll by Linux kids who weren't even alive when I was selling code I'd written.

I remember before Linux was widely accepted and only the province of masochistic Unix veterans who fervently believed there had to be some way to salvage some of their investment in skill building in that area lest their suffering have truly been for no better reason than to test their endurance come the day when it died. In that time, the biggest cry of the junior geek brigade against Microsoft was that Windows 3.11 for Workgroups wasn't integrated enough, and configuring DOS .ini files was too hard and too often.

I have not failed to notice that many of the same people are now whining about the totally integrated Windows XP is "teh suxx0r" compared to Linux because Linux has all these powerful command prompt things and all these configuration files and...

The justification for hating Microsoft is just that, a justification for hating Microsoft. And usually by people doing it because it is in and cool in their minds. If you went by most of the Linux crowd's anti-MS rhetoric, you'd swear that Windows XP was harder to use than DOS and less stable than Gary Busey with a .10 and a wobbly axle cycle. Of course, it isn't. And the ease of use and learning curve are only slightly greater than that of the AOL interface software.

Just because we geeks can do technical things, and do them well, and maybe even love them, does not mean that people who are not like us are losers and unworthy of life. Granted there's plenty of people who fit that bill, but in general our ability to twiddle bits, rewrite build scripts, and so on, does not make us super superior and the fact that it is fashionable to hate on Microsoft doesn't make it right and justified by sheer numbers.

I am angry with them from the point of view of the honor of coders and their tendency to lie regarding the quality of their code and its completion status. (MS: it's finished. Me: no, it's still barely beta as far as stability is concerned. MS: it's finished. Me: hello, is this a recording?)

With respect to India doing this, they're falling for the idea that free beats paid and that the fine points of useability and logical sense and stability will sort themselves out on the backs of the adopters. This is like assuming an endless supply of free hatchets is superior to a well built and maintained chainsaw from the heavy equipment shop. Not if you're taking down fifty trees it isn't, not even if you have five thousand peons to wield the hatchets. The problems are not irrellevant and they won't take care of themselves.

All this assumes of course that FOSS is the only solution. Hello? Megacorporation IBM failed miserably with OS/2 and we all know SCO's history and that Apple is only alive in its current state of health today because they took a monetary injection from Microsoft. Having lots of money is not a guarantee of anything any more than software being free making it inherently more pure and righteous. For fark's sake people, viruses, trojans, and adware are free.

Nevertheless, I am not holding my breath that enough people will read this with a sober mind and clear head without knee-jerk thinking "troll". Just you think that. I'll be building dual-boot Windows/Linux systems for the technically inclined while you try to scream at some more Joe Sixpacks that Linux is superior and they're stupid for using AOL and Windows' point-click simplicity over your OS choice that takes someone whose vocation technology is to install, configure, and use at the same level as their Win boxes.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[sirReal.83.]

So you're complaining that id can't be bothered to actually package their software for Linux, when they do it for Windows?

They could provide one RPM package, and let that be all. If they wanted to be nice they could provide a Debian package as well. But they don't. I just don't see how that means that 'Linux Sucks'.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[theconartist]

Try that same argument, but this time include autopackage and lets which side it supports.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[gvc]

The parent makes 3 assertions:

1. Linux is hard[er than Windows] to install.
2. Linux doesn't run Windows games well.
3. Linux is hard[er than Windows] for ordinary people to understand.

I have recently installed Windows XP and MEPIS Linux. The latter was much easier. Didn't ask me about domain controllers, or make me hit single keys like "1" and "8" and "y" and choose between NTFS and FAT and choose between quick format and real format ... Not only that, MEPIS booted to a desktop in the time it took the XP disk to ask me the first text-mode question.

Windows games don't run on Linux. So what? Lots of people use computers for communication, computation, and composition. If you want to play games, fine. Buy Windows or a PS2 ...

You said, "what seems easy and natural to Linux geeks is definitely not what regular people consider easy."

I suggest that the fact that Windows geekdom has somewhat more members than Linux geekdom makes Windows neither easy nor natural for "regular people."

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[pallmall1]

Actually, you've got a point. Installing apps on linux can be really overwhelming to new users. But, to moderately experienced users, installing apps does become a smooth process, and when the apps are installed on linux, they are better fit to the system's configuration than corresponding Windows apps. Consequently, they are more stable. They are also (mostly) free and don't have to be replaced or repurchased every couple of years.

What will eventually lead to greater adoption of Linux is the growing number of experienced users available to assist the newcomers. While Windows seems easier to work with, the reality is that it's just user-familiar, not user-friendly.

Now, maybe you can tell me how to install my original version of Quake on Windows XP Pro?

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[EEPS]

Wow, TFA didn't mention Linux once, and the first post I see is flaming linux. You say linux Zealot this and linux Zealot that, well I say you are a Winodows Zealot. TFA is about open source software in general, most likely on the Windows platform. If you have a problem with Open source in general... then thats a whole different thing.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[petermgreen]

maybe its just because i'm used to windows but i find that when linux works out of the box it does so butifully.

when your hardware is for whatever reason not properly supported out of the box you can't just grab a makers driver cd and install the driver you need like you can on windows. If there is a linux driver at all it will most likely require figuring out where to get headers for your kernel and then hoping that the module will build ok against your kernel version.

on the other hand linux does support a lot more hardware than windows out of the box. Installing windows on a system without the original driver cds for all the parts is a nightmare.

also there are specific classes of hardware with which linux really sucks. For example wireless network cards and usb adsl modems (i know you can use a home router with built in adsl modem but then you are stuck behind a cheap and nasty nat) you can get a few home routers that can terminate the pppoa whilst still providing the real ip to the box connected by ethernet but theese are rare and some of them also seem to not get on very well with the way linux handles dhcp.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

[climbing on soap box]
Ya know what - I really don't care whether Linux is user friendly. I also don't give a shit about running Quake 3 (or 4 or 5 or 28). I'm sick of reading crap from people about how they've been doing this since "before Windows 3.1" - woo hoo! I've been doing this since we had to key in the fucking code with the front panel switches in binary. Anybody remember paper tape? IBM punch cards were the new thing when I started. I could give a shit whether every mom and pop in the world runs Microsoft. What I'm really fed up with is managers coming in to tell me how I should run my systems with Microsoft instead of Linux/UNIX because that's what they have on their desktop and it works great for them. That's like having an aquarium on your desk and saying you're an oceanographer. Buy a fucking vowel people! You want to do real computer work, don't use Windows. You wanna play games, go ahead but you'd be better off buying an Xbox 360 or PS3. I hope that those people in India who have to do real processing get it right. Those wanting to play games, surf the net, and do email can use Windows - 'cause I don't have to listen to them whine when their system goes to shit.
[descending from soap box]

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[luwain]

Actually, Linux market share may increase not because it grabs more "home" desktops, but because it will gain more "business" desktops. Linux flavors like Sun's Java Desktop and Novell/SUSE offerings are geared towards the business desktop. Most business applications (like Open Office) install just as easily as their Windows' counterparts, or will come pre-configured and installed with the OS. The crap one has to go through to install something like Quake 3 actually works in Linux's favor for the business desktop. EMployers don't want their employees installing Quake 3 on their computers! I recently had a client of mine ask me if there was a way I could prevent his employees from installing programs on their computers (running Windows 2000). Having Linux boxes is ideal for businesses,because, while the business applications are similar enough to their Windows counterparts in ease of use, the unfamiliarity of installation procedures to most employees will prevent them from messing with the companiy's "default" configured computers. Also, since linux doesn't have the market share, it is not attacked as vociferously by virus writers. So right now, Linux should become wildly popular on business desktops. Already in Asia, I believe governments have made Linux their official Operating System. Linux may become popular at home in Asia then, for the same reason many people buy Windows machines here -- because it's what they use at work...

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, if you want to pay $$$ for software that is already free and easy to install (via various GUI or CLI package managers) in other distros.

Hey, let's run everything as root! It's okay, because Lindows will sell me a virus scanner*!

* which detects Windows viruses

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[64nDh1]

That is a great point and well made. If I had a cap I would be dothing it to you sir (or madam?).

I see it similarly I think. Complaining about users using Windows because you're a Linux praising coder who wouldn't stoop to using Gates' platform is akin to someone harrassing another person for eating at McDonalds. Sure you could get better food, you could get cheaper food, or you could get really high quality food, and you might be opposed to some practices by the corporation which are outside of ethical standards. So why in the hell do so many people eat at McDonalds? Because it's convenient. You've got the price or a reasonable meal and you don't want to wait.

Why do people use Windows? It's a reasonable price, and it's preinstalled more often than not. There are less hurdles to overcome and it isn't even close to being a requirement for the user to be able to pick his way through the kernel, or construct hacks from a limited knowledge of C++. It's a commodity first, investment of time and resources second (or am I wrong on this and do professional PC sales account for greater takings than home PCs?).

That said, Gentoo does have Portage which is as handy for installation of software as the "point-click simplicity" of Windows .

I also like the use of the word Fark. But as a former Farker, I would.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Most linux people are smart enough to figure out the installation process you mentioned. Also smart enough to figure out that windows is deathware.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Vicissidude]

You forget that the average person doesn't install Windows. It just magically comes with the computer.

The average person wants to use their PC for running what PCs run, which include games. Tell an average person that Linux can't do something they want to do that Windows CAN do, and they'll choose Windows EVERY time. Being able to run games is a core function in many people's minds. My mom, for example, runs Solitaire and Oregon Trail 1. Tell her she couldn't run Oregon Trail 1 on Linux and she would never switch from Windows.

And yes, the fact that Windows has more users than Linux DOES make it easier. When grandma has a question about Windows, she can ask the 12 year old neighbor boy. If grandma had a question about Linux, the 12 year old neighbor boy would go "WTF is this?" Then grandma would be SOL until I take the time to go to grandma's.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[grcumb]

"I have not failed to notice that many of the same people are now whining about the totally integrated Windows XP is "teh suxx0r" compared to Linux because Linux has all these powerful command prompt things and all these configuration files and..."

I'm not going to argue with the fact that you can find a troll for any position, but please consider that many (if not most) people who tout Linux over Windows do so based on their professional judgement. I don't think the folks guiding IBM and Novell's Linux policy use the word 'suxx0r' very often, for example.

The problem with the 'totally integrated Windows XP' as you call it has been hashed over so many times, I'm surprised that a silverback like you would have missed why the kind of integration that Microsoft does is a Bad Thing. Read yesterday's thread on browser security for enlightenment if you're still puzzled.

As for command lines and config files, the thing I like best about them is that they allow you to automate just about any process. But most desktop distros these days have GUIs too, so stating that command line and scripting are available for admins does not imply that we expect users to use them as well.

I have a useful little one-line script that allows a new user to reset their desktop environment to the default. So if in the course of exploring their desktop environment things get messed up and they just want to go back to what they had at the start, they can run this script. Rather than force them to understand the CLI, I simply place an icon on their desktop that says, 'Cleanup'.

Now that is the kind of integration that Linux admins love. It's called the 'toolkit approach', and it weaves together the capabilities of thousands of single purpose tools to achieve exactly the desired effect. To the computer user, it's just a 'magic happens' box.

I'm not arguing that you can't do the same thing in Windows, by the way, only that *nix systems are designed to be open and flexible from the ground up, and Linux lovers tend to think that design is superior to Windows' monolithic approach.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

>I'm surprised that a silverback like you would have missed why the kind of integration that Microsoft does is a Bad Thing.

Apropos of nothing, how do you like your outhouse?

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[smash]

Or, you could run Ubuntu.

Running quake is as easy as installing Ubuntu (answer a couple of questions like "name", "date", and "is it ok for me to wipe your hard-drive to install", then run the package manager, and install the nvidia driver, and then download and run the quake installer.

No, the installer isn't on CD, but that will change in time.

You still need to download quake updates with windows to play on most of the online servers in any case.

smash.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[terrox]

you have not used linux for a while. try using any new linux versions and see if you just wasted your time or not.

PC Linux bootcd, rocks. And I do not know how to apt-get, emerge and rpm at all!

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Mycroft_VIII]

As for command lines and config files, the thing I like best about them is that they allow you to automate just about any process. But most desktop distros these days have GUIs too, so stating that command line and scripting are available for admins does not imply that we expect users to use them as well.

Except that's to often the exact situation. If you don't know how to edit the right files by hand (and what files they are and where they are) you are likely not going to be able to do anything other than the distro makers best guess, which is only a guess.
Heck the last distro I tried (Ubuntu 64bit) you couldn't even do what the distro makers implied you could do because it made guesses about file types you could change, random guesses at that with no consistancy (some .iso files where audio/mp3 some where indeed cd images, no pattern to it I could discern) and there was NO way to change that within the gui and after an hour or two of digging around I gave trying to find the right file to edit or how.
IF they were only extra and not a necessary knowledge to simple use I'd agree with this paragraph, but it's simply not the case.
There are a lot of good things about linux, but config file hell is still an issue.

Mycroft

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Mycroft_VIII]

oops forgott about slashdot's confusion over extrans/plain-text. Sorry about that.

Mycroft

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Mycroft_VIII]

Actually that's only true when the app your installing is for the specific version of the specific distro. Sometimes you get a bit of leeway in version minor number, and with luck a closely related distro might be bent into running your app, especially if it's a simple app. Elsewise dependancies and settings and such will occupy quite a bit of time before you find out it won't work without a recompile and then maybe it will.
Where linux usually shines is in the install of the distro (if you don't have one the diminishingly small number of unsuported hardware items) not add on software.
The one thing about linux distro's I tend to like the most is boot cd, make the choices you want and leave the rest at default, wait a few minutes, use. Also distro's tend to come with lots of software AND usually the tools to make your own if your so inclined.
The thing I like the least is adding any software NOT on the original disks, or configuring things after the install process.
Beyond wallpapers and themes it's pot-luck whether you'll be able to configure anything in particular if you don't know which set of arcane cli commands to use or where a config file is and what it's called and what arcane gobledy gook it requires to do what you want.

Mycroft

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Aldric]

I think it will work in India, for the following reasons:

1. XP Starter Edition is crippled. Hell, Windows 95 had more functionality.
2. Microsoft are still going to be selling it at a price that's a months wages for most Indian people.

Either they will use the open source stuff being given out free, or they will pirate XP Pro. Microsoft have got to be worried about the government of the country pushing open source though - you can bet there will be no government contracts coming to MS again from India.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Bongo]

Apple is only alive in its current state of health today because they took a monetary injection from Microsoft

Really? Well, you probably didn't dwell on the point for brevity but I'd just like to expand that a little lest it become misleading.

According to this article the deal helped to deflect anti trust charges from Microsoft, as the deal included continuation of Office for Mac, and it was also a settlement over disputes with Apple, after MS stole Quicktime code.

The justification for hating Microsoft is just that, a justification for hating Microsoft.

Some people 'hate' Microsoft simply because they dominate using unethical methods and that dominance with their mediocre products threatens the existence of more ethical companies with better products. It's better to deal with an ethical company because then you're less likely to get burnt.

With respect to India doing this, they're falling for the idea that free beats paid and that the fine points of useability and logical sense and stability will sort themselves out on the backs of the adopters.

I agree that there are plenty of people who champion Linux to such a degree that they pretend it's always easier and better. However, I wouldn't be too unkind about that because that 'faith' serves a function; it helps keep the focus and momentum. Linux has great potential to go much much further.

But if we simply sit back and 'rationally' dismiss Linux because sound doesn't work properly, that would be a poor analysis for it ignores the vast potential.

You've criticised the making of assumptions, but making assumptions is sometimes the smart thing to do when creating something new. If we'd all taken your 'sober' attitude, Linux would have died out years ago.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[someone1234]

The part about /tmp should have 10MB is quite lame. If your windows has no space on the HD, quake will crash there as well. Don't forget about DirectX versions either. You might say WinXP has the right DX version, but then, a sufficiently recent Linux distro can run Quake3 just as easily. It is even possible you can find Quake3 on the distro's DVD. Generally, you are right, however. Windows is generally better for running games. Most likely because gamers are usually not programmers.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[solferino]

Your argument is based on purely technical usability grounds. Whatever side you take it is only relevant as an argument against the inherent superiority/inferiority of Open Source software production. For those of us who don't want to be enslaved by the software we use yr argument is completely irrelevant.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Bert64]

Well the installation of the base os is easier on many linux distributions than windows, especially if your using modern hardware like SATA.. try installing windows and you'l need a floppy drive to load the sata drivers from, and if you blink when it says "press F6 to load a third party driver" you'l miss it and the install will fail.

There's also the issue installs on windows all work differently, you get executeable installers that all look and behave differently, and then you get msi files and who knows what else.. Also uninstallation procedures are all different, if theres an uninstall atall, and often don't fully remove the program correctly, leaving stray files and registry keys sitting around..

Contrast this with the linux approach, where apps are packaged up into a standard format (debs, rpms, ebuilds) which are installable and uninstallable with a single command or the use of a graphical tool. The installation and uninstallation is consistent and fully removes the apps..

As for installing quake3, i would open up the package management tool, same as if i was installing anything else, select quake3 and hit install, and go do something else while it was working.. no need to sit by the machine to keep clicking on "next"

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[spinel]

AC said "Take installation. Linux zealots are now saying "oh installing is so easy, just do apt-get install package or emerge package": Yes, because typing in "apt-get" or "emerge" makes so much more sense to new users than double-clicking an icon that says "setup"."

Have you ever tried Linux? In the last five years and maybe one of the "LiveCD" distros? Really this is like someone complaining that they don't like MS because they can't understand EDLIN. Don't get me started on how intuitive editing the registry is to all those grannies aout there. I used to work with some DOS dinks who were always throwing out anti-Unix idiocies which anyone who used a Sun system within the last few years knew there was an element of truth at one time in the past but not recently. MS fudders are now using the same sort of arguments against Linux. If you can not get Mandrake, now Mandriva or one of the LiveCD distros to work for you easily you need to box up your computer, return it to the store and tell them you need a refund because you are too stupid to use a computer.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[smileplzz]

That was really cool .I am a lover of linux but i agree with you completely. but but but ..... If you know and understand linux properly then those things will be really easy to you.Its just that you need to learn those things. Linux users are not dumb to tell u "Oh that's easy!" Its because it is easy for them.And you people should at least learn linux to understand it. Any ways its what people think individually. its not that every linux user says it good or easy ---- it is a step towards making a operating system better than ever. Sorry to say but LINUX ROCKS .

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[cosmol]

Not that this really hurts your argument (as setting up wine is not a newb-friendly task), but windows solitaire and oregon trail both run on linux under wine. I play lots of classic games with wine, check it out.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh huh. Sure. Thats why you are using Windows while there are Graphical User Interfaces developed to install any sort of Game. It is NOT Linux's fault that Quake has a installer "Setup.exe" for Windows and a *.bin for linux. Ask them to make a nice GUI installer. Its NOT hard. Stop complaining when you don't have any facts.

Thanks.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

People in India who can't afford Windows won't be able to afford a computer in the first place. The people who can afford computers can easily afford windows. So it won't work in India. Besides why bother buying Window when you can buy a CD with pirated movies, software, music, porn or whatever off the street in India for a few rupees. Everything in India is pirated and Windows is easy to get for free.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with the parent. Go ahead mod me down.

But there is a lot a truth there. Linux even with all its advantages still has to work on its Pre-OBE (out of the box experience).

Most people want to have an OS that works, and linux does. Its just that like in everything someone has to start off something easy and make a transition to something better. ONCE they have mastered the easy part(windows).

Oh and saying LINUX ROCKS just does not make it so.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, come on, he's taking the 2 worst examples of linux usability - games and installing proprietary graphics cards drivers, the third being laptops -, merged into one sucky post. Only thing that proves is that you WILL find help if you got a problem will Linux, but it won't necessarily be intelligible :-(

Now there is some bias (okay, a lot) regarding Linux and windows respective usability. One thing that always make me feel sorry is people bragging how Linux is sooo much easier to install than Windows. Okay, cool. That's been a fact for years. It's also completely irrelevant. Because most people won't ever install windows anyway.

About the unix geeks fighting for their jobs, you seem to have quickly forgotten that until NT4SP6a (for work) or XP (for everybody else), Windows was a dodgy piece of crap that would regularly die and take your work or game with it in the grave. That's the reason some people can't stand Windows. I never heard the non-integrated this, .ini that arguments.

And it's not like it's a well and good now. Twice this year I had to pull a Knoppix CD to save my flatmate's hard drive content after XP had hosed itself. Of course the restore CD puts XP back into pristine state, clean of her pictures of the last 3 years, and completely open to all the security holes that have been plugged since then. And yes, I tried to install Linux, but, well, "Linux on laptop"... :-(
And don't get me started on viruses, spyware, adware and all that crap.

Nowadays when people ask me what they should get, it goes like this... Do you want to play games? If yes, get windows. Can you get good technical support from work? If no, get a mac. If yes, unless you got a good reason, do yourself a favor and get a mac. If the hardware is already there, then we can start thinking Linux.

Regardless, the first thing I do afterward is install OpenOffice and - if not mac - Firefox and Thunderbird and make sure they use that. It's really good software, not a "hatchet", waayyy good enough for 95% of users (that would be 99% were it not for corps' investment in templates and spreadsheets), and I don't want anyone to use a warezed Office. Free does not necessarily beats paid, but it sure as hell is *cheaper* and/or *legal*. So congrats to India.

Finally, you forget to mention "Free"...
In my experience, there's 4 stereotypes of people who "like" Windows or Office:

• those whose jobs depend on it;
• those who don't know anything else;
• those who admire Microsoft;
• those who remember the hell of word processor and spreadsheet file formats incompatibilities pre Office domination.

I see Free software as a vaccine against those dark ages. Because if you got the source, you can access your data. Because if the format is available, competition can at least import it.

Cheers,

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[rtb61]

Another big reason for the likely failure is marketing i.e. 3rd world Microsoft Windows for 3rd world countries. The whole marketing concept is pretty insulating to the intended customer base, it is akin to saying they are not good enough for the full western edition of Microsoft Windows. I would not be suprised if they also dumbed it down, those microsft marketdroids really do believe their own prejudices.

Re:Why Linux Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

true....very true. But the reason the Indian government is trying to even distribute Linux in the first place is to spread the movement of developing free-software. This move is not aimed at the regular home-user but at companies and even to the local geek who would like to know more about Linux and free software. Yes, it is a pain in the ass to install almost any software on Linux, but it is a good thing that people know first what a pain in the ass it is to create a great user-interface where a setup is merely represented by a button. Windows has accomplished this and probably Fedora as well(at least Core 3), but the regular user does not know how it was created. Being an Indian myself, 70% of the Indian youth are computer literate, not as in just starting up MS Word and writing a line or so, but programming, creating user-interfaces and even making state-of-the-art software for companies like Boeing. Inviting these group of people to such a community as Free software is fun because (1) They ought to know what the inside-story about Linux is and (2) who knows, the possibilities could even broaden in terms of software development. The movement is not a direct threat as in capturing more and more people to use Linux and abandon Windows, but to promote the cause of developing free software. Its like a giant project all over the globe. The objective is not to make non-Linux users feel threatened by using Linux but just an insight to what it actually feels like to be working and at the same time contributing to free software. As far as Windows is concerned, I dont think they have any reason to be panicky and feel threatened. Linux is not here to replace, it is here to promote. I dont know why people look at these 2 as an epic fight between giants or something like that.

Nice planning.

[get out of debt]

Great woo hoo I got a CD. Now all i need is a pc, monitor and keyboards.

Re:Nice planning.

[get out of debt]

Oops i totally forgot about a steady source of power.

Re:Nice planning.

[cyber_rigger]

Great woo hoo I got a CD. Now all i need is a pc, monitor and keyboards.

If you're building a Windows machine
then the hardware us the cheap part.

Re:In a nutshell

[Anonymous Coward]

What?

MANY people HERE use those free products. What does this have to do with "us not being good enough for products"?

India likes OS software

[Timesprout]

Tell us something we didnt know. What was interesting to me though was

Eventually, the government plans to release CDs in all of the 22 official languages of India.

Holy crap, just how many languages exactly does a country need! I know its a big place but 22! It must require 95% of all IT resources just to localise software. How do they manage to find time for offshore work?

Re:India likes OS software

[jpu8086]

Those 22 languages (AFAIK, there are only 18 official languages, but maybe this has changed recently) are the ones spoken by at least one million people.

There are many other "minor" languages spoken by other people.

Mind you, these are not dialects. These are full-blown unique languages with unique written scripts (however, many of them do share common traits).

It is amazing how we are able to maintain a democracy, let alone a country.

Re:India likes OS software

[jxyama]

>Holy crap, just how many languages exactly does a country need!

I know you weren't passing a judgment, but the number of languages in a country is not about a "need." It's more about the diversity of cultural/ethnical heritage. Also, I imagine the recognition of different languages as "official" probably contribute quite a bit to the preservation of different culture/ethnicity and improve political relations between them.

Re:India likes OS software

[Timesprout]

I'm all for cultural diversity but what struck me about it was that if India is anything like Ireland, there will always be someone demanding the govt provide this service ot that in Gailge. For 2 languages its a pain but doable, 22 languages though I would have though would lead to an administrative nighmare.

I assume Hindi is accepted as standard language so people can actually communicate with each other.

Re:India likes OS software

[Anonymous Coward]

btw, i think you probably meant a billion

No, he means there are specific dialects that have at least one million speakers per dialect.

Re:India likes OS software

[Rocketship Underpant]

People who think of India as just another country don't realize how vast and diverse it is. It's really its own continent, with over twice the population of Europe and probably twice the cultural diversity in language, custom, and religion.

If you thought about India as a federation of many different nations with their own markets, languages, and so on, you'd be closer to the mark.

It's a fascinating place and I'd like to visit it someday. India is an enormous and invaluable repository of human culture and history.

Re:India likes OS software

[millette]

Coneasfast, just how many billion people do you think there are in India ?

Re:India likes OS software

[jpu8086]

ROFL. 22 billion+?

btw, yeah, i meant what i wrote! =)

Re:India likes OS software

[anand78]

A little education for you, India was made on the same grounds as US. Before British invasion India was multiple Kingdoms with their own language culture. British rule was able to bring all of these small states as one. This however changed nothing in the language people spoke. When we got our independence we started annexing these states. The last state annexed was in the 60's was GOA from Portugal. Now for a interesting fact even though the Govt tries to push Hindi as the National language but South India refuses to speak that language. So we have a big country where if you cross a state border you land somewhere where even the street signs are unreadable because it is in a local language. Now we have technically more than 22 languages but the process of making a Dialect into a language is retarded at best. For example Bhojpuri is a language that is spoken in Surinam, Maurititius and other carribean countries. When it comes to India Bhojpuri is a dialect. To answer the retard who thought Indian spell wrongly get your facts right, TOEFL and GRE English India scores the highest every time. Besides British English is not always thought as gramatically correct in US.

Re:India likes OS software

[(H)elix1]

I assume Hindi is accepted as standard language so people can actually communicate with each other.

Actually, they use English. Ended up spending a month or so over there and found I could communicate better with the taxi drivers in New Delhi than NYC.

Re:India likes OS software

[64nDh1]

Damnit I know this is irretrievably off topic. But I want to post the link so why the hell not.

Why reply to this comment? You mentioned Ireland and I'm Irish.

Why in this thread? Because my login is 64nDh1. Yes, I'm stuck with it now, but a 1337 version of the common name for Indian pacifist and political leader Mohandas Karamchai Gandhi.

What does this have to do with OSS in India? Nothing, but http://fsf.org.inlogo.html64ndh1hlenclientsafari/" target="_blank">Google seems to associate the only other instance of 64nDh1 usage it can find on the web on a page that I haven't contributed to.

It's a reference to the Free Software Foundation of India. I haven't checked it out, I'm not interested in whether this is piracy or OSS in the link. I just wanted to blurt out something about what I found to be an odd coincidence.

Feel free to mod this down, and resume your lives as you were.

Re:India likes OS software

[The Original Yama]

Off the top of my head, India has about 1,600 (yes, that's ONE THOUSAND SIX HUNDRED) recognised languages and dialects, and probably many more.

From the CIA World Factbook:

English enjoys associate status but is the most important language for national, political, and commercial communication; Hindi is the national language and primary tongue of 30% of the people; there are 14 other official languages: Bengali, Telugu, Marathi, Tamil, Urdu, Gujarati, Malayalam, Kannada, Oriya, Punjabi, Assamese, Kashmiri, Sindhi, and Sanskrit; Hindustani is a popular variant of Hindi/Urdu spoken widely throughout northern India but is not an official language

Re:India likes OS software

[DadEsIphReAk]

That is so PIMP. Awesome Gautam

Re:India likes OS software

[Big Jason]

I just got back from Bangalore. My driver could speak english, arabic, hindi, kannada, tamil, and 5 other Indian languages. I found it peculiar that the only language he could write in was english.

Re:India likes OS software

[Anonymous Coward]

Liked that? Ponder this - India has well over 200 dialiects!

Re:India likes OS software

[a3217055]

My friend Indians are a friendly sort of people. But they love there own culture and own languages. So just like in America people have different license plates from state to state in India they just have different languages. It is not that bad, and most of them all atleast understand and speak hindi. Unless you goto South India where one may need to speak english.

Re:India likes OS software

[Anonymous Coward]

Psst, he meant a million speak each language for them to be official. Of course there are over a million people if you add them all together, that wasn't his point.

Re:India likes OS software

[Anonymous Coward]

22 isn't a lot. I grew up in the Phillipines where there are about 60+ different languages, and that's not counting dialects.

Re:India likes OS software

[Coneasfast]

yeah i get it now
i thought you meant 1 billion in total and made a typo :)
sorry

Re:India likes OS software

[bfree]

I've a friend who's English and has lived in Ireland for a long time and he's now an Irish Civil Servant. I keep trying to get him to refuse to work until he can have his work software in Irish. If you know any Irish Civil servants who need some time off please pass on the idea as I think my friends complete lack of any Irish vocabulary whatsoever is discouraging him :-)

Re:India likes OS software

[riteshsarraf]

This is what we call Pure Multitasking

Re:India likes OS software

[MikeBabcock]

There's nothing wrong with diversity.

Having common "official" languages is useful, Canada even has two at only 35 million people.

That said, I prefer diversity -- being able to communicate with each other should be on the basis of learning each others' language, not submitting to a state-sponsored one.

Re:In a nutshell

[mbrewthx]

My Indian Dr. thinks so. And he uses WIndows..

That's great

[TheWingThing]

As an Indian myself, one of the things that really plague users of Indian language versions of software is the non-standardized fonts and encodings. Most of them do not use UTF-8, and non-standard fonts are all over the place. This effort I think will promote the creators of software and content publishers to adhere to a standard, if the Govt initiatives gain a big userbase. Try visiting some Indian language websites, and you'll see what I mean. You need a custom font for every single website, it drives you crazy. I think the Govt efforts will encourage Indian language publishers (all 20+ languages) to adhere to standards like UTF-8.

Re:That's great

[ScrewMaster]

I think you're probably right, but I still find it interesting that you're talking about linguistic standards in this way. Language (spoken and written) were, after all, among the first "standards" ever employed by the human race.

Re:That's great

[petermgreen]

sure you could distribute text online in the form of images but that would be horriblly inefficiant

so we need standard ways of giving each charactor a reference computers can deal with and unicode (usually encoded into a utf-8 bytestream) has become the standard means of doing this.

India choking its own economy?

[Anonymous Coward]

PC-ness aside, wouldn't they be choking their own economy in the long run? Wouldn't the volume of outsourced tech jobs take a hit if India as a country deploy free software?

Re:India choking its own economy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? All the out-sourced jobs are from companies foreign to India.

I suppose all the jobs will be out-outsourced from India to Indonesia and the Phillipines for even cheaper labor?

Re:India choking its own economy?

[Truth_Quark]

I doubt that very much.

More exposure to tech creates better techies.
Exposure to OSS includes the ability for the exposee to peep under the hood, and have a tweak, if one is that way inclined. And in a country of 1.4 thousand million, (or "billion" as americans insist on calling "thousand million"), more that one person is going to be that way inclined - Increasing the IT savvy of the people can only be good for the economy in the future.

Furthermore, extending the interface to all 22 official languages in India is going to be very useful and poplular, and expensive for closed source software companies to duplicate.

I wouldn't be suprised if there is also a lot of interest in these applications by expatriot Indians interested in bringing up multi-lingual children. (And Sri-Lankans, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis for that matter).

Coincidence?

[lecithin]

Current Slashdot Submission - Linux: Indian Government Keen on Open Source

Last Slashdot Submission - Ask Slashdot: Using Computer Stores to Spread Open Source?

Lemmie think here...

Future Submission? Apu: Thank You, Come Again!

Re:Coincidence?

[puiahappy]

And what is so bad about the OSS news ? I like very much to hear about such things. I also live in a poor country and use OSS. And YES for us who didn`t have money it`s very important that we have an alternative choise and love to hear about it improved, promoted and distributed.

Re:Coincidence?

[Felinoid]

I think he was making a joke from the populare american TV show "The Simpsons"

Apu is an Indian convence store clerk in the show.
He is suggesting the next step is to find Linux distro CDs at convence stores for like $5 a disk.

That would turely rock.
However my dream is to see Linux distributed like AoL disks.
Linux distro CDs dropping out of mags. In everyones mail boxes.

"I'm sick of Windows. Give me one of those coasters zeek I'm going to install it."

Insert evil laugh.

Yeah it'd need to have some service attached or you couldn't fund it.
Earthlink Linux, AoL Linux, Compuserve Linux, (Insert ISP) Linux.
Also folowing in the steps of Lindows would be Linux destros with automated update services that you pay monthly or yearly to keep your system up to date.

Re:Coincidence?

[l3v1]

He is suggesting the next step is to find Linux distro CDs at convence stores for like $5 a disk.

A beginning is what many people do: distribute freely. E,g, I ordered Ubuntu Hoary disks both i386&amd64, gave some of them to a friend, keep one and I'll leave the rest for the public at my former university. Good thing is, that generally there have always been a significant number of linux people.

Holy Shit

[Anonymous Coward]

I was going to comment on the story, but something else came up:
These new captchas are getting harder and harder to read. WHAT THE HELL FOR? Stop dicking around, Malda, why don't you do something constructive like making this site XHTML 1.1 compliant?

Took me 3 tries to post... fuck you
You failed to confirm you are a human. Please double-check the 7-letter image and make sure you typed in what it says.

umm

[TheKidWho]

Windows XP Starter Edition is the stupidest idea ever...

Re:umm

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know.

I think filling tubes with a flammable liquid and lighting them on fire to simulate light sabers is a little stupider than Windows XP Started Edition :)

Re:umm

[whiteranger99x]

I think filling tubes with a flammable liquid and lighting them on fire to simulate light sabers is a little stupider than Windows XP Started Edition :)

Yeah, but it's not like there's anyone stupid enough to actually do that...oh wait...nevermind. Forget I posted :P

Re:umm

[St. Arbirix]

It's pretty well named though.

It's like calling a pack of Marlboro 60s a "Marlboro Starter Pack"

Re:umm

[karthik_r085]

Just Windows XP Starter Edition?

Re:umm

[Znork]

It's also a perfect example of the damage that the intellectual monopoly exceptions cause to the free market.

Here we have people getting paid for spending time with making a product less useful, directly damaging a small part of the total wealth of society, in the attempt to keep prices up. Market vandalism.

That could not happen in a competetive free market without monopoly protections.

Re:umm

[Anonymous Coward]

...especially if it does not support all those 20+ langages...

Re:In a nutshell

[Anonymous Coward]

More like India doesn't want the CIA to use Windows' backdoor into the Military Info structure they are building up now.

Oh and *nix/BSD are products of decades of western work. Just really cheap products....oh that's right it's only fair that we get the cheap products and services from China/India and not the other way around. Talk about double standards.

Great

[Anonymous Coward]

Next they'll outsource the users...

Downloadable version

[TheWingThing]

The Indian language CD (currently, Tamil only) can be downloaded from http://www.ildc.in/ - the website maintained by the government. But it's already slowed down, try after a few days. Most SW is available for both Linux and Windows.

Re:Downloadable version

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you actually used this download that you link to? There are THOUSANDS for localization bugs. You cannot use the command line unless you know English. Way to go, Open-Sourcers, declaring victory when you have pre-alpha mix of sloppy bits.

empahsis

[sound vision]

Shouldn't India be worrying about more important things like reducing the population, and feeding it? Computers, and even moreso such specific things like what development model is used for software, are so trivial when compared with war and starvation.

Re:empahsis

[Anonymous Coward]

Creating more geeks should reduce the population nicely.

Re:empahsis

[Anonymous Coward]

If that is what you think India is ... you dont have any 'sound+vision'..

Re:empahsis

[be-fan]

Um, what war plagues India? Border skirmishes with Pakistan? War plagues the American heartland more than it plagues India...

Anyway, hippies amuse me. What is the only way to deal with starvation? Money! How do you make money? By spending less, and making more. Linux should help the Indian government do both.

Re:empahsis

[KingSkippus]

Not that I'm a big fan of outsourcing because it totally sucks for those of us left in the tech industry in the U.S., but...

By worrying about things such as computers and development models, India is vastly improving its economic situation, raising the standard of living for its citizens and enabling itself to provide basic necessities of which you speak.

If I were Inidan, I would see their (our, I guess, if I were Indian) progress over the past decade as an extremely hopeful sign of economic power that the country has never known before; perhaps even strong enough someday soon to compete with the big bad U.S. We (I'm not Indian any more, I'm referring to the U.S.) may not be the "land of opportunity" much longer, and I'll bet that India is one a lot of places that would be more than willing to take our place.

Remember how Japan dominated our auto industry over the course of less than a decade? It's very possible that we won't hold on to our software development leadership role for much longer precisely because places like India are setting their goals higher than merely managing war and poverty.

Re:empahsis

[Frodo Crockett]

Shouldn't India be worrying about more important things like reducing the population, and feeding it?

If you leave those two problems alone long enough, they'll solve each other.

(Note to humorless mods: this is a joke!)

Re:empahsis

[Phil06]

What about the growth of the programing trade in India? Hasn't this been raising their standard of living? The Indian government is and should be interested in training and enabling programmers so they can take advantage of this national resource, trading this resource for better living conditions for their people. Should the Indian government promote giving away this resource as in FOSS?
Free as in some other sucker pays.

Re:empahsis

[anand78]

Watch what you say "reduce" what do you mean Kill the polulation or something.

Re:empahsis

[Anonymous Coward]

More computerization should help make life a little easier for everyone. Imagine if America had computers fifty or a hundred years earlier than it did. Wouldn't it have developed much faster?

What I'm wondering is, why doesn't Microsoft just give away XP home instead of wasting time and money developing something heavily crippled that can't possibly compete with free?

Re:empahsis

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, our government does spend money on unnecessary things (although I dont know if this is unnecessary, as it definetly improves education). And, people like me do protest (I do at the state level) against wastefull spending on useless projects like removing a statue from my city because some 'astrologer' said so.

But, I should also point out that your government also does the same.

Shoudn't you be asking your governmet to spend on healthcare instead of war before you complain about India ?

Re:empahsis

[Anonymous Coward]

You can do your own research for this, but India produces more than enough food to feed its billion people. The problem is that people dont have money to buy the food, and a lot of the food rots in storage.

Re:empahsis

[hopethisnickisnottak]

Shouldn't India be worrying about more important things like reducing the population, and feeding it?

How exactly do you reduce a country's population? Extermination? Emigration?

Re:empahsis

[l3v1]

Not that I'm a big fan of outsourcing because it totally sucks for those of us left in the tech industry in the U.S., but...

You know, first, you're not the only country where companies do outsourcing, so forgive me if I'm not sorry for you guys. Second, judging outsourcing is always relative, and it's always better for those who get work because some companies bring them work. Poorer countries also need to raise from poverty, and foreign companies investing in this form or the other, is a help, even if it is only for a given time [till it's worth being there]. And, always, they take most of their money out of the country to which they outsorce the jobs, very little money they leave there: mostly they get a tax discounts for longish times and their profit leaves the country. And, after a few years they mostly leave for another.

Re:empahsis

[valentyn]

Economists amuse me as well. The only way to deal with starvation is food.

Re:empahsis

[l3v1]

Shouldn't India be worrying about more important things like reducing the population, and feeding it? Computers, and even moreso such specific things like what development model is used for software, are so trivial when compared with war and starvation.

Yup, one more american who "knows" how the world looks like outside the US, and giving "advice". No wonder, really. And not even exasperating anymore.

Re:empahsis

[Krimszon]

That border skirmish has the potential to become a nuclear war. Which by the way could solve the problem of overpopulation...

Re:empahsis

[codecracker007]

hmm reducing population???like do what???outsource population reduction to the Tiananmen Movers Corportion?????or to Osama Fliers-and-cleaners??? Do all articles referring to India need to have an obligatory flamebait by an ignorant IQ(x)IQ(potato) 'person' ????? I tell you what, your thinking is no better than Pol Pot, who killed over a million teachers, academicians and technicians, when he was ruling the present day Cambodia, in the pretext of setting up a 'self-sufficient agrarian socienty'.

Re:empahsis

[genus babbage]

Given the quantity of food destroyed by the western world in the past, it would seem as though you need more than just food to deal with starvation.

Hippies, economists, politicians, charities, rebels, lowlives looking for a fast buck (to name just a few) - they all have a part to play. Focussing on any one over the others is as sure a way of failing as ignoring the problem altogether.

You only have to look at the result of the huge influx of material foreign aid after the tsunami this year to know that you can't solve everything by pilling produce on people's heads.

Re:empahsis

[Anonymous Coward]

And I bet anything that both India and Pakistan are using Beowolf clusters running linux to do their nuclear explosion simulations.

Re:empahsis

[be-fan]

That's a very naive way of thinking, but unfortunately all too common. In the third world, a lot of the time it's not the resource that's the problem, but distribution. Food is easy to get. There is a huge surplus of it in the world. It's getting the food to where it needs to go that's the problem. The same is often true for healthcare. When told that 60% of people in a country lack access to health services, the "obvious" solution is "build more hospitals!" However, in many countries, the hospitals are underutilized as it is! No, the real solution is harder, more complex, and more subtle. It involves getting people educated to go to clinics instead of local healers, figuring out transportation networks to get people too those clinics, and figuring out sustainable funding mechanisms to keep the clinics operating. Even then, it's often not enough, and you've got to use "clever" solutions to get people to the hospitals.

Saying "the only way to deal with starvation is food" is also very short-sighted. Nothing is free. Governments either pay for food with money, or by mortgaging their independence (in the form of accepting external controls in order to accept foreign aid). Either way, buying food isn't sustainable. It'll work temporarily, but the problem will just come back the next day (and probably worse because the population will have grown), and if the world economy hits a downturn (which reduces foreign aid), your people will starve anyway. The only way to get your population fed is to ensure that they have the resources to feed themselves.

Re:empahsis

[Stepping Razor]

birth control.

piracy

[I_bet_this_is_not_al]

Well this is good to hear, but the biggest problem in India is software piracy--as long as people continue to get WinXP and MSOffice cdroms for less than a dollar, I don't see how their (our) ignorant minds will agree to trash Microsoft and go open source...

Re:piracy

[kfg]

I don't see how their (our) ignorant minds will agree to trash Microsoft and go open source...

Dude, all three apps listed in the article are Open Source Windows programs.

KFG

Re:piracy

[I_bet_this_is_not_al]

yea Dude, and they are apparently _not_ microsoft programs. Think before you write crap. The point is that I really don't see people switching, free cds or not. I spent years trying to persuade highschool teachers, friends, relatives, whatever without success. People have IE so they don't want Firefox, they have their one dollar msoffice so they don't want ooffice, they have outlook so they don't want some crappy mail client. So much for the native languages, the fact of the matter is that nobody even cares about writing in Tamil or Hindi on his computer since it is simply not practical, given the english keyboards. English is one of the official languages of India, and when it comes to documents, the language of choice. I don't see where all this is going. I think the anti-piracy steps taken by micrsoft is the one thing that'll make people switch. I think its a blessing in disguise.

Re:piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

open source is more reliable than pirated windows. pirated copies could have spyware or viruses on it. oss would be pretty stable on almost any machine and probably comes in an indian language pack too.

Re:piracy

[kfg]

Forgive me. The context of the story is that these CDs will somehow hurt the adoption of Microsoft Windows XP, when they all run on Windows XP.

The real story is simply about localization, which happens to be possible on Open Source apps as a roll your own sort of deal. That is one of the powers of Open Source, but in this case has nothing to do with displacing Microsoft operating systems.

Here you are certainly correct that the "incumbent" and the lingua franca have certain innate advantages. Now, I've never been to India, but I do know that when I lived in Mexico I often ran into language problems because I spoke Spanish. It turns out that a lot of people there don't, and Mexico is far more linguistically homogenous than India. We shall see how it goes, but yes, I would say that you are also correct in your judgement that what will drive people away from Microsoft products is Microsoft's own behavior. They're very good at that sort of thing.

KFG

not any more

[AussieVamp2]

Newspapers USED to pay proof readers, fact checkers, etc.

Fairly clear that nowhere near as much of this happens now.

"plans to release a low-cost version of Windows"b

[Senor_Programmer]

One thing that has always puzzled me is why Microsoft has not verticall segmented windows. It'a a common practice with hardware. Remember all the different model typewriters IBM used to market, or HP and the range of printers.

I used to sell computers back in the 80's. I'd ask the cstomer. What do you want to do with your computer? The usual answer was, "Oh, just some basic word processing". So I'd sell the adequate hardware and software to do that.

These days I bet the most common answer is.
Word processing, internet, photography, and taxes.
Entry level windows, if it did all these things, economically, would sell like hotcakes. Wordpad and notepad are not quite enough and office is way too much for most people. Why doesn't Microsoft have a cokkection of office products. Home office, law office, accountants office, presenters office, Super office(does it all).

They should also split by processor. 32 bit vs 64 bit and not one product for all.

The models for splitting products by functionality and performance to maximize overall profit are well known, yet MS seems to have ignored to opportunity to apply this to software.

IMO they are a decade late and billions short with their entry level windows...

Easy to install...

[KingSkippus]

Linux zealots are now saying "oh installing is so easy, just do apt-get install package or emerge package"

Bah, using Linux is much easier than this; all I have to do is turn my computer on with the Knoppix disc in the drive, and I'm good to go; no fuss, no muss.

Seriously, this is a wonderful thing. If Linux can get out there on the desktops in widespread use before Microsoft gets its crippleware in front of everyone, it will set a standard that will be hard for Microsoft to overcome. Somebody (preferably some non-me person) should set up a fund that presses CDs with the goal of getting one in the hands of every country's citizens for free, especially countries where Microsoft doesn't have a firm grasp on the market yet. Hey, it worked for AOL. Before long, maybe zealots will be answering lame questions about how to get Tux Racer to run on Windows for those weird people that are using it instead of the free operating system everyone else is using...

Re:Easy to install...

[Anonymous Coward]

This reply is garbage. "If everyone used it then they'd be used to it" sure is a revelation, but it's in no way a solution to the difficulties the OP illuminated.

I wonder if the article author...

[Osrin]

... has actually worked with the Government of India. Suggesting that they have a single preference to something is like suggesting that all beer tastes good. (have you tried that stuff from the UK?).

The GoI is many millions of people scattered through hundreds of local, regional and national departments. The likelihood of seeing a common policy position through all those independent individuals is slim.

The GoI will continue to grow its IT capability through as many channels as possible, promoting many different technologies, of which Linux will be one and Windows will be another. Market forces pretty much make the selection from there forwards.

The OSS community has been all to quick to jump up and down heralding the wonders of other government decisions in the past... there is a lesson that needs to be learned though, things like this are just one small step on a much longer and much more complex journey.

There is still a lot of work to be done...

Re:I wonder if the article author...

[cygnusx]

Agree. I'm going to wonder what impression 'government distribution' of Linux is going to create on the common man. Especially since anything else the government does or distributes -- being it statefunded education or condoms -- is perceived as being low-quality and inferior by the masses and tolerated simply because it's free.

Re:I wonder if the article author...

[Atomic Playboy]

Suggesting that they have a single preference to something is like suggesting that all beer tastes good. (have you tried that stuff from the UK?).

Sorry but i can't let that one go ;) What you call beer we call lager (piss-coloured, 5+%abv and only drinkable if served freezing cold). Here in the uk, lager is generally drunk by people what want to get arseholed as efficiently as possible, while bitter (the decent stuff, anyway) is to be drunk slowly and appreciated. I'd suggest you spend some time aquiring the taste for it (you hated coffee at first but now you appriciate the good stuff, right?) - you'll be glad you did :)

Re:I wonder if the article author...

[Osrin]

I come from Blackburn in Lancashire... just trying to make the point in a form that our bretheren from the other side of the Atlantic will understand. ;)

Re:I wonder if the article author...

[Atomic Playboy]

Lol i'm just up the road from you in Burnley. *g* sorry i insulted your appreciation of the best drink in the world... "You can't seriously want to make ban alcohol, it tastes great, makes woman appear more attractive, and makes a person virtually invulnerable to criticism." "Diamond" Joe Quimby.

Free vs Free.

[Duncan3]

Linux is free as in chai in India, but so is Windows Server 2003 Enterprise edition.

The localization is the key feature here, and has nothing to do with price. But watch for the 100's of posts about cost anyway ;)

Re:Free vs Free.

[kokoko1]

lol, same case here in .pk , btw I love chai ;)

An expensive set of brakes

[ehack]

An expensive set of brakes will be needed to stop this. Hmmm, a visit by the US trade secretary ? Buying up all the CDs ? I think this is more of a ploy by the policticans to squeeze money out of MS than a real attempt to push the software out there.

Re:An expensive set of brakes

[timmyf2371]

What makes you think that, other than what I suspect to be mere unfounded cynicism?

From what the article says it seems to be more about the localisation of the software than anything else, in an attempt to encourage computer use.

Re:An expensive set of brakes

[Aldric]

Because the world would come to a crashing halt if something was done that didn't involve the US in some way, obviously.

Ah man

[be-fan]

I can just imagine the cognative dissonance in a Slashdot-browsing IT worker:

Hmm. I love Linux, but I hate India. Ah! What to do!

Re:Ah man

[iggymanz]

Don't hate India, hate your By-the-Big-Corporation-for-the-Big-Corporation government that would rather take advantage of the cheap resources/labor that a caste (India) or communist (china) or oppressed (insert favorite 3rd world shithole here) society provides, than invest in its own people's economy.

Re:Ah man

[be-fan]

I don't hate India. Silly people on Slashdot hate India. Either that, or blame our "By-the-Big-Corporation-for-the-Big-Corporation government". What does the government have to do with outsourcing (companies do it, not the government)? What does India's caste system (which is no longer enforced) have to do with things anyway? And how does the caste system help provide cheap programmers?

Geez, the lack of logic and knowledge is frightening.

Re:Ah man

[Anonymous Coward]

"Cast system no longer enforced". Hahaha, yeah good one. That's right they just switched it off one day. LOL

Re:Ah man

[be-fan]

Basically, yes. There was a time when the caste system was enforced by law. One day, the anulled that law, and poof, it's no longer enforced. I didn't say it didn't still have an impact on society, I said it was no longer enforced.

Re:Ah man

[evilviper]

What does the government have to do with outsourcing (companies do it, not the government)?

The government i the one that sets tarrifs, trade restrictions, immigration restrictions, etc.

The government is responsible for outsourcing in the same way the Bush administration is responsible for the sky-high gas prices... They've done nothing to prevent it, even though accepted economic theory is that it is their job to take care of it in one way or another.

Re:Ah man

[be-fan]

The government i the one that sets tarrifs, trade restrictions, immigration restrictions, etc.

All of which are anathema to a modern economy.

They've done nothing to prevent it

By that logic, the government is responsible for everything. That's a horrible way to define the role of government in a free society. I don't remember anything in the Constitution that says our government is responsible for ensuring that obsolete workers keep their jobs anyway.

even though accepted economic theory is that it is their job to take care of it in one way or another.

Wrong! Accepted economic theory holds that the government must take care of a specific set of things (namely, any public goods, like defense, the environment, etc). It points out while it is less efficient for government to do these things than for the free market to do them, the free market solutions don't work, so it doesn't matter if they're more efficient.

Jobs, on the other hand, are not a public good (according to the economic definition of public good). Therefore, the government does not need to regulate it, because the free market can do a fine job of it. Accepted economic theory says nothing about tarrifs and trade restrictions other than that they are inefficient and shouldn't be avoided at all costs.

Re:Ah man

[evilviper]

All of which are anathema to a modern economy.

Only in the (made-up) opinions of the richest 1% of the population, and the empty suits they employ to spread their message.

By that logic, the government is responsible for everything.

No, you've simply taken this completely out of context. It was a SINGLE SENTENCE for a reason, yet you split it up to make a strawman.

the free market can do a fine job of it. Accepted economic theory says nothing about tarrifs and trade restrictions other than that they are inefficient and shouldn't be avoided at all costs.

Complete and utter bullshit. Accepted economic theory is that workers are NOT nearly as mobile as corporations, which puts them at a significant disadvantage if they are not protected. Tarrifs and trade restrictions are the accepted way to do this.

Re:Ah man

[be-fan]

Complete and utter bullshit. Accepted economic theory is that workers are NOT nearly as mobile as corporations, which puts them at a significant disadvantage if they are not protected. Tarrifs and trade restrictions are the accepted way to do this

I don't know what economic theory you're reading, but there are few things economists agree upon, and a mutual hatred of taxes, tarrifs, and trade restrictions is one of them. This has been true ever since "The Wealth of Nations" was written.

Now all i need is a pc

[falconwolf]

Simputer

New ! PicoPeta Simputers Pvt Ltd unveils Amida Simputer for the retail market

The Simputer is a low cost portable alternative to PCs, by which the benefits of IT can reach the common man.

It has a special role in the third world because it ensures that illiteracy is no longer a barrier to handling a computer.

The key to bridging the digital divide is to have shared devices that permit truly simple and natural user interfaces based on sight, touch and audio.

The Simputer meets these demands through a browser for the Information Markup Language (IML). IML has been created to provide a uniform experience to users and to allow rapid development of solutions on any platform.

Falcon

Re:Now all i need is a pc

[Anonymous Coward]

I say we train Simps to use Simputers and do all our work for us. They have an IQ of what, 60?

Open Sorce?

[Anonymous Coward]

Open Sorce? Like wizards sharing with the community? Magic wants to be free!

Re:Open Sorce?

[Anonymous Coward]

" Like wizards sharing with the community?"

Wizards never share!

Trade balance

[Anonymous Coward]

and this is great ! for the trade balance ! oh wait its not...
1 1 billion indians get free linux
2 1 billion indians do not buy windows
3 profit ?????
4 um no.

Re:Another potentially missed deadline...

[Quirk]

Your sig: "If you find this post offensive, don't read it!"

Do you suffer from some weird kind of epistemological dyslexia? Do you, unlike the rest of us, have some grok like, gestalten faculity that allows you to sense whether a post is offensive before you read it? Ah, you are a l337 jedi, able to sense the dark side.

What am I missing?

[Anonymous Coward]

I RTFA, but I still don't understand: is this a live disk that will run this stuff, or installs for these programs?

All of the programs mentioned run on a variety of platforms, how is this a blow to M$?

BTW, what the fuck kind of word is "VZBIRYT", and why do I have to fucking type it in?

apparently the word is "VZBIRVT" or I am not a fucking human...

Apparently the fucking thing is broken....

It is fucking broken, here's the test picture...

Tell me what the fuck it is....

Sorce!

[Anonymous Coward]

Word's 4th favour non-dictionary word!

Get it right ZONK!

Re:Another potentially missed deadline...

[solios]

Said .sig makes just as much sense as software EULAs printed on the back of the manual in the box... which you explicitly agreed to implicitly in full by opening the shrinkwrap on the box.

curry

[Anonymous Coward]

Indians only are going for it because its free.

Cheap ass stinky bastards.

Re:Another potentially missed deadline...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you have even more free time to waste than I do...

Re:Another potentially missed deadline...

[Anonymous Coward]

Never having read an EULA I can't comment.

/me bites troll

[Anonymous Coward]

Release update: minor delay; no non-RC fixes; upgrade reports

• To: debian-devel-announce@lists.debian.org
• Subject: Release update: minor delay; no non-RC fixes; upgrade reports
• From: Andreas Barth <aba@not.so.argh.org>
• Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 23:57:52 +0200
• Mail-followup-to: Andreas Barth <aba@not.so.argh.org>,debian-devel-announce@lists. debian.org
• Message-id: <20050527215752.GS1493@mails.so.argh.org>
• Old-return-path: <aba@not.so.argh.org>
• User-agent: Mutt/1.5.6i

Hi,

Well, just in case it wasn't obvious to everyone from looking at the
release-critical bug stats, we should probably come out and say it: the
the count of release critical issues affecting sarge is still going
down, but it's not yet down to zero, which means no release this
weekend.

But we are *very* close, so we're only pushing the schedule back a week
and aiming for a release next weekend.

The only real blocker as of today are the release critical bugs. If you
have any of them in your own package, take care of them now. You
wouldn't want to be known as The Maintainer Who Held Up The Release, and
you probably don't want your package removed from sarge, either. :)
Otherwise, if you want to help us, please continue to squash RC bugs and
help with the preparation of the release notes and processing of upgrade
reports. We're at a point now where more hands are not going to speed
up the release, though, so if you aren't already involved in these
tasks, you might want to just relax for a bit and start your Release
Party preparations.

There has been a great deal of interest from maintainers wanting
to get fixes into sarge. Thank you for helping to make your packages the
best possible for sarge! However, since we are in a freeze, each fix
requires time from a member of the release team to check the package for
regressions. Given the pure number of requests, this is a major time sink,
so please make sure that your request matches our criterias before sending
it in.

This means that, for all packages that still need to be updated for
sarge, the rules are (still) as follows:

- Updates are only possible for RC-bug fixes and translation and
documentation improvements.

- If your package needs to be updated for sarge, and the version in
unstable doesn't contain extraneous changes (e.g, the version is the
same between testing and unstable), please upload your fix to
unstable and contact debian-release@lists.debian.org.

- If the version in unstable already includes significant changes not
related to the bug to be fixed, contact debian-release about
uploading to testing-proposed-updates. Changed dependencies, new
upstream versions, changed library names, and completely rewriting
the packaging are "significant changes". So are lots of other
things.

- If the version in unstable won't reach testing because of new
library dependencies, contact debian-release about uploading to
testing-proposed-updates.

- If in doubt, contact debian-release first.

- In all cases, when preparing an upload please do not make changes to
the package that are not related to fixing the bugs in question.
Doing so makes it more time consuming for the release team to review
and approve such requests, delaying the release. It also delays the
fix for your package, because you will be asked to reupload.

- When contacting the release team, please e

Not true anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't true anymore. No one needs to use apt-get or emerge from the commandline anymore, there are GUI tools for these tasks that are installed by default on the distributions that use each relevant packaging system.

And regarding Quake 3: This is pure nonsense. If you use a distribution from 3 years ago, for example RH 7.1, then your installation description might hold true. But with any decent distro it's a point and click installer just like on MSWindows.

Re:Why Linux Sucks - Quake 3 outsourcing.

[Daverz]

Oh, my god, you're right! if the Indian Government goes through with this, Western companies will move their offshore video game playing from Bangalore to Shanghai.

Re:"plans to release a low-cost version of Windows

[rokzy]

because they don't want you to be happy with a suitable product. they're trying to make money, not make good software.

the way they've handled office document compatibility is so appalling they must either be completely retarded, or they must intentionally make things difficult so you always need the latest, high-price office suite.

XP Starter is almost completely unusable for modern computing. that's how it's supposed to be. to get you hooked a little, and then pay for the expensive full version.

more stupid ideas...

[mbaudis]

you have some strong contenders to Windows XP Starter Edition:

• windows 1.0
• windows 3.0
• windows 3.1
• windows 95
• windows 98
• windows ME (very strong, this one)
• windows 2000
• windows XP
• windows XP service pack 2
• windows "longhorn" (or, as some cartoon caracter would say, "fuuuuutuuuure!!!!"

maybe time for another /. poll?

Why Computers Suck

[soloport]

You're using a made-for-Windows game as an illustration? Ok.

How do I get regular, made-for-Linux apps to install on Linux? Simple: I fire up Synaptic (a GUI based installer). It prompts me for my root password (same as "Administrator" on a well-managed Windows box). It loads the hundreds and hundreds of packages available to me (which are free). I search for and select a package (or several at once) and click the "Proceed" button.

Is that so tough? Well, perhaps is is if you've NEVER done it before.

And no more difficult than what my clients do, every day: Click Start->Run...->Browse... -- look for setup.exe (but only see 'Setup' and wonder). Then they call me to stop by and install the application for them. No kidding.

Linux install was a no-brainer 12 years ago ...

[AHumbleOpinion]

I remember before Linux was widely accepted and only the province of masochistic Unix veterans who fervently believed there had to be some way to salvage some of their investment in skill building in that area lest their suffering have truly been for no better reason than to test their endurance come the day when it died.

I remember 12 years ago when my first Linux was trivial to install, with sound and video. Yggdrasil plug and play Linux. I had used BSD at the University so one day I picked up a FreeBSD CD and a Yggdrasil CD at a local computer show, about US$20 all together. I tried FreeBSD first given my background, it crashed while installing on my 486DX2-66. I tried Yggdrasil, it installed, it recognized my ATI Mach32 (I don't think I had a 64 yet but I could be mistaken) and SoundBlaster 16 and configured automatically. How many old timers would have been turned off of Linux if it had not been so simple back then, that first generation of Linux advocates might not gotten the ball rolling.

Re:Linux install was a no-brainer 12 years ago ...

[pboulang]

12 years ago, I couldn't afford a CD-ROM that would work (had one hooked off the sound card. I had to download 32 floppies to get slackware installed. It was a pain in the ass getting sound working (I had the jumpers wrong initially) and modem -- which I gladly paid $150 to upgrade to 19.9. Heck, I had to learn all about SLIP just to do anything useful (which specifically was to use elm and archie and read newsgroups)

You got lucky with Yggdrasil, I had to go BUY a mach32 to get X working (more floppies..)

Re:Linux install was a no-brainer 12 years ago ...

[AHumbleOpinion]

I think my CD-ROM may have been off of my sound card also, but I had a SoundBlaster 16 with SCSI. Yeah, I have always felt fortunate that Yggdrasil was my first impression of Linux, Linux would have been much less impressive otherwise. Much like I feel fortunate my initial experience with assembly language was 6502 not 8086. ;-)

Re:Linux install was a no-brainer 12 years ago ...

[Anonymous Coward]

...and then you had to get out the manual for your Mach 32 and monitor and calculate your modelines after
reading the howto, cross your fingers and hope your monitor didn't go up in smoke...

Yeah but....

[interstellar_donkey]

I hear that the version of these open source packages being distributed in India check the CPU ID and won't work on P-4s and Athalons.

Re:Yeah but....

[l3v1]

Yes, and they self-destruct if one puts them in an optical drive.

Re:Yeah but....

[Bad to the Ben]

No, that's what Windows XP Starter Edition does.

And even if the open source packages did do that, the source is available for someone to remove that restriction and distribute the fixed version. The entire point of open source software is that it's "free" (as in freedom) software, you don't get corporations deciding what you'll do with it.

Where Zealots Want to Go Today

[Doc Ruby]

I guess that's why Linux is so suitable in India, long a home to every kind of zealot ever found on Earth.

Re:Where Zealots Want to Go Today

[Anonymous Coward]

As an Indian Athiest, for once I agree with some one on slashdot. Why the fu*k does evry asshole need be ove-zealous about thier religion and kill people on the streets ?

But I have hope. I envision a world where humanity has evolved beyond religion. I am working towards that goal, in a country with the billion people.

Re:Where Zealots Want to Go Today

[hopethisnickisnottak]

Compare the past records of the US, Great Britain, Germany, France (in Africa and East Asia), China, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq and then try saying "I guess that's why Linux is so suitable in India, long a home to every kind of zealot ever found on Earth" with a straight face.

Re:Where Zealots Want to Go Today

[Doc Ruby]

We'll be changed beyond recognition before we, as a species, give up religion. But we can recognize that the modern religion, science, is itself based on faith. Science calls for faith in only two principles, testability for validity and consistency, but both are as metaphysical as any of the other unproveable beliefs which compose much more complex religions. Science is more liberating, empowering everyone equally to experience it directly, without mediation if we wish, than most religions. And it delivers daily the kinds of miracles most religions rely on for most of their power. The only question is whether humans will destroy science by treating it like its less informed predecessors. If we insist on creating churches, as dogmatic versions of Buddhism seems to suggest, maybe we should keep our imaginary monster lords of creation, just to absorb the damage we might otherwise do to science. I suppose we'll just have to see how it goes.

Re:Where Zealots Want to Go Today

[Doc Ruby]

Why would you think India, which I mentioned apropos of the subject of the thread we're discussing, has a monopoly on zealotry? *You* are defensive, and projecting your own insecurity on my post.

Re:Where Zealots Want to Go Today

[professionalfurryele]

I should point out that you are not describing scientific method. Science is a process for arriving at a defined construct, fact. It says nothing about the 'value' or 'truth' of that construct.
You are describing reductionist fundamentalism, which is in effect a religion of sorts. If you hold scientific fact as necessarily true then you are some brand of reductionist fundamentalist.
Scientific method does not require it's assumptions to be prooved, because it makes no statement about the truth of those statements.
So if humanity evolved beyound religious belief systems then reductionist fundamentalism would disappear, but scientific method would not and would almost certainly still be used to arrive at scientific fact.
As a scientist I don't believe any of our models for the universe are 'true'. I do however see the inherent utility in thier predictive power and capacity to explain prior phenomina. This inherent utility of science is what threatens religions because even a devout religious individuals will question thier version of truth when it collides with scientific fact.

Re:Where Zealots Want to Go Today

[Doc Ruby]

In fact I *am* describing the philosophy of science: logical positivism. Science applies LP with all kinds of techniques. But the principle of LP, that only statements that could fail a proposed test are scientific, is the single defining principle of science. That principle, itself a statement, is not itself "falsifiable", therefore not scientific, but metaphysical. That is the element of faith on which science is based. Science is further based on the principle of consistency, that valid statements in one spacetime context are also valid in every other spacetime context. Which itself is not falsifiable. But those are the only statements necessarily taken on faith that science requires. But even when people don't explicitly refer to these principles, they can always be found in any scientific endeavor. And any other principles are not science, but rather physical contingencies of scientific technique, or derivations of those principles.

Your point regards some definition of "truth". I didn't mention it, but strictly speaking, we can know only "accuracy". The more accurate, the more true. Some science, like Godel's theorem, suggests that absolute accuracy of statements is impossible, the way we make statements. The statement "there is no absolute truth" is not falsifiable - it's metaphysics, and science is not equipped to evaluate it. That's not to say that metaphysics has no place in making statements. But there is no reason to believe those statements. Metaphysics can suggest questions about existence that science can investigage,but science trumps metaphysics when the two conflict in statements about existence. Because we have so little technique for distinguishing accuracy, or truth, of metaphysical statements, they're sometimes interesting, but never compelling.

Re:Where Zealots Want to Go Today

[professionalfurryele]

Your response has a number of technical errors I should make you aware of.
Logical Positivism (aka Popper and his buddies) is not science, it is a guiding hand to scientific theory, but falsifiability is not a requirement for a scientific theory. In fact you point out yourself it leads to a logical inconsistency if we insist all axiomatic forms in science must adhere strictly to this requirement, because it cannot itself be falsified.
Falsifiability is therefore an indication of the quality of a theory. Science therefore requires no faith unless you include the requirement for logical positivism, which pure reductionism does not.
You next statement makes it clear you are aware of this because you play a semantic game by suggesting that science is reductionist fundamentalism (now coupled with logical positivism for good measure). If you choose to define science that way then you would be running contrary to the general perception and accepted definition of science. Science is a method, not a religion.
As for accuracy and truth. Truth is irrelevant to science. You made truth an issue by essentially defining Science as a essentially dogmatic religion ascribing to it's axiomatic structure truth. If you consider science a method, then truth does not enter into the equation. Accuracy does not contribute to truth. Accuracy is a measure of the quality of fact.
Godel's (Incompleteness) theorem is not science, it is mathematics. I can make Godel's Incompleteness Theorem false from a deductive logical perspective if I wish to by adjusting the axiomatic structure of Set Theory if I wish to.
Science is not equipt to answer any questions of truth if you view it as a method, it can only address fact, unless you extend science beyound fact into truth and then make it on a par with a religion.
Your last statement about science vs. metaphysics made no sense so I wont comment on it.
In conclusion logical positivism coupled with reductionist fundamentalism is (thankfully) not science. Science is a method, and it is free from logical positivism, and the fundamentalist aspect of fundamentalist reductionism. Your presumption otherwise is what leads you to the conclusion science is on a par with religion.

Re:"plans to release a low-cost version of Windows

[westlake]

The models for splitting products by functionality and performance to maximize overall profit are well known, yet MS seems to have ignored to opportunity to apply this to software.

There were versions of Word Perfect for medical and law offices, at a premium price.

Microsoft sold Office components you could mix and match and customize as needed throughout your organization, if your needs were simpler, there was always Microsoft Works or a Works suite with Microsoft Word. Currently, Student-Teacher Office, which might as well be called Office Home Edition, lists for $150 and installs on three PCs.

Make it mandatory in Govt. offices

[IndianGuru]

The Indian Govt. should make it mandatory for all Govt. organisations to use only Open Source software. Will they do that? I doubt.

Re:Make it mandatory in Govt. offices

[fbform]

The Indian Govt. should make it mandatory for all Govt. organisations to use only Open Source software. Will they do that? I doubt.

I hope they do, because every time I want to read something on an Indian Government website, I'm horrified in new ways. I thought I'd grown immune to the IE-only sites that the Indian Government seems to have a fetish for, but databases of election results in Access is an assault on good taste.

This is SO 2001.

[supabeast!]

Handing out free Linux CDs? Damn those Indian nerds are behind! They need to get with the picture and start handing out Powerbooks running OS X.

Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

"The source is strong with this one"

Windows vs Linux, my experience so far

[ghostunit]

I hate Windows and I'm actively trying to get my Linux desktop working. To achieve this, I need it to run all my current programs or equivalent (audio, video, file sharing and programming languages).

My current experience has shown that this task may require the following:

* search for obscure drivers hosted on sites shut-down years ago. * delve into myriads of configuration files (and or GUIs) each with its own (sometimes arbitrary) syntax, even for the most trivial app. * risk messing your OS with a recompile. * read dozens of pages worth of howto webpages that may or may not apply to your machine, man pages and non-sensical error logs among other things, none of which are sure to be worth your time (either because you are looking in the wrong place or because it's something completely arbitrary).

In other words, stuff no normal user is going to bother with (or be able to achieve).

So far it's been 2 weeks and have only been succesful in the audio and programming language categories and it has not been easy. I have run into all sorts of problems since the installation process that have forced me to look into stuff no regular user would bother dealing with. And some things don't even have a solution or workaround such as not being able to write to NTFS partitions due to the current state of the NTFS driver.

To some point I enjoyed working with those problems, but it got ridiculous at times. Part of this is not Linux's fault, for example, many 3rd parties are only interested in Windows, forcing Linux developers to reverse engineer stuff on their own, the results sometimes being stuff that works, but only as a complete hack (in the ugly sense of the word).

Meanwhile, Windows (for the desktop, most of the time) just works. Sorry but it's true. Perhaps I have run into so many problems because I'm not yet a good hacker, but I got the impression that there is a lot of ugly patchwork in Linux, maintained by a few people who stop working on the project when "it's no longer the best use of their time". Sorry, but Linux has a LONG way to go.

Maybe once it becomes more popular with events such as the one described in this article there will be a greater development effort into it.

Re:Windows vs Linux, my experience so far

[smash]

* search for obscure drivers hosted on sites shut-down years ago. * delve into myriads of configuration files (and or GUIs) each with its own (sometimes arbitrary) syntax, even for the most trivial app. * risk messing your OS with a recompile. * read dozens of pages worth of howto webpages that may or may not apply to your machine, man pages and non-sensical error logs among other things, none of which are sure to be worth your time (either because you are looking in the wrong place or because it's something completely arbitrary).

Please... my experience (9 years) is that Linux supports old obscure hardware *better*, in the standard kernel. The vast majority of the kernel these days is modular too, so there's no need to recompile - just load the module.

And as to hosing your machine with a bad compile - well... its far easier for your machine to be hosed by windows update.

I've had more random "not work" issues through windows update (media player in particular, that I could only fix with a complete o/s reinstall - go MS for making it not uninstallable), than i've had problems with Linux that way.

Hose the kernel? Boot from your distribution CD and copy it back over.

MOST bad compiles won't produce a kernel at all, so if the compile fails your boot kernel is unaffected.

Go download Ubuntu or Knoppix, and see what the current state of Linux is, rather than basing your assumptions on distributions from 5-6 years ago.

smash.

Re:Windows vs Linux, my experience so far

[fohat]

I had similar experiences recently. I decided to switch my G*teway PC from windows to linux. Nothing worked "out of the box" except Ubuntu. So far I have succeeded copying 250+ CD's into FLAC, but that's about all I have bothered with so far. I want to completely switch away from Windows at some point, but as far as ease of use goes I will probably find myself in a Mac store sooner or later, unless Linux can progress to a point that avoids the negatives you speak of.

Re:Windows vs Linux, my experience so far

[l3v1]

Thing is, I am less and less interested to read such "unsuccess-stories" recently. Why ? Because they are almost all from newbies, frequently not just linux newbies, but in everything [as judged from their writing, use of words and concepts and tools]. In other cases I frequently feel some sort of - maybe wrong word - superiority, meaning that they try something and if they fail then that's it, don't try, don't touch, don't ask, but start complaining and bashing, and drawing mostly [if not always] wrong conclusions.

I never say, to nobody, that learning linux is easy. It's not, for multiple reasons: learning and coming in contact just with the MS ways from the beginning; easily being accostumed to Windows' ways that suggest that every joe5pack can click together anything; very many of them never ever have built a computer in their life, and very few have ever seen one's insides - that's not necvessarily a bad thing, I'm just trying to point out a pattern in their ways of thinking; most of them never have installed even a Windows version, they just buy them preinstalled and if something doesn't work they take it back to the "shop" to get it fixed. I could continue, but it's somewhat pointless.

When I first came in contact with linux was a very early version of slackware which I installed on a 386dx40 with 4 megs of ram. It was a pain, and because I didn't know much of it, it took my quite a few trials and about a week to get it running. But it worked in the end and I was happy. I was thrilled I could do it, and I learned _very _very_ much about the internals of linux during that period. That was very many years back. Compared to those times - and even my ater redhat times - linux today is very easy and very nice. And, seeing all the work that has been done, I can really greatly value and appreciate the work of the hundreds of people who code FOSS software.

Sometimes, when I get really mad about this whole topic - not that frequent, but it happens -, I tend to just wave the whole things of by saying those windows folks that they are just ignorant and lazy and basically computer illiterate and I stop the conversation. But - obviously - such words don't help. Not me, not them, not anyone.

What can help is spreading the word, spreading the knowledge, spreading the most userfriendly distros, lifting somewhat the cloud that has been dropped on most everyday people by MS's PR and marketing divisions. Letting people know that free software is not just good because it costs less money (I'm talking about everyday people here, not enterprises !), hell, that can't be much of an argument in the states or western europe anymore, but because linux is far superior to Windows in so many aspects one could spend long hours to explain them to people who live in the dark.

Sorry, but Linux has a LONG way to go.

Maybe, mostly for reasons you and many people think "for the desktop" means. And many of you think wrong. If "for the desktop" means dumbed down the point that Mr. 6pack can clickety click his life away, then yes, there is some work to be done. For some of us linux distros are quite usable for home, work, entertainment and "Desktop" for quite a long time now.

Re:Windows vs Linux, my experience so far

[Anonymous Coward]

And some things don't even have a solution or workaround such as not being able to write to NTFS partitions due to the current state of the NTFS driver

Yes.. It's shocking that linux can't read Windows partitions, because Windows reads/writes ext2/ext3/xfs/jfs/reiserfs/reiser4 so well...

Favorate joke about Indians.

[interstellar_donkey]

In India, there are 1.1 billion people.

So when somebody in India says "You're one in a million", there are 1,100 people out there just like you.

Not Cheap Enough

[PingPongBoy]

As software outsourcing to India has been deemed too costly, the Indian government has legislated that it be given away.

Re:"plans to release a low-cost version of Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

While it sounds like a good idea, I wonder what the DoJ would have to say about Windows doing all that?

Re:Why Linux requires intelligence

[sta]

The more I think about this the more I like it. A computer is _not_ an appliance. It's a tool (that also happens to be able to run games software) - if you can't use it then just buy a PS2 or xbox.

Public domain fonts... yummy!

[Sivaraj]

Most significant achievement of this effort is not just releasing free software in a CD. Much of this software is already downloadable from elsewhere. But the government was able to buy a large number of quality Unicode fonts (more than 100) from the publishers and released them in public domain.

Quality and free fonts had long been a problem in the free software development in Tamil language. The OCR software released also would be useful in releasing etexts of the vast literature available in Tamil as part of Project Madurai (like Project Gutenbug). But I believe the OCR software is not released as open souce. It is just free as in beer.

Re:Public domain fonts... yummy!

[Anonymous Coward]

Tamil... the language of rasam-swilling smelly towelheads everywhere. Yum. I've always wondered: with all that curry in your systems, does it smell as bad when you're licking some Tamil pussy?

Re: Agnula Demudi?

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the good things about linux is that anyone can package it.

For example, I work in a Sound production environment and we use Agnula Demudi linux in our studio.

This is a linux distribution which is geared towards sound production and has all the required software already configured and running.

Take a look at:
http://www.agnula.org/

You may find it easier then setting it all up from a 'generic' distribution.

And searching for drivers on outdated unsupported websites? its been ages since I did that (but I admit I only buy hardware which has good linux support nowadays)

This move is a good sign for open source

[ravee]

I think that there is a lot going on in the technology front in India - an example being the just released $200 laptop in India. But all this technology is really used by people living in the cities (who have studied in English medium schools) which is a minority. The majority of people who live in the villages of India do not understand English and so will not be able to use the computer. The government's move to release the open-source software in regional languages is a move to bridge this divide. So that even the people in villages will be able to harness the power of a PC - for example to check the latest price of seeds, check what is the best price they could get for their farm produce, gain knowledge about the best farming practices to increase the crop yield, give better education to their children, get up-to-date weather information (remember, India has a good weather satellite and is one of the few countries capable of launching their own satellites in outer space), send and receive email in their own language - these being only some of the uses that come to my mind that the average Indian living in villages could accomplish by using a computer.

The shift to open-source should not be taken as anti-Microsoft or anti-proprietary. I believe the government took this move because of the ready availability of source code, no license restrictions and freedom to distribute the modified software to the masses free of cost.

But the question is will this trend by the Indian government reverse the tide towards the open-source softwares ?
I believe it could significantly increase the use of open source softwares by the people. But for the real movement towards the free software to take place, there should be a significant reduction in the level of piracy of proprietary software happening here.
For example, I could just walk into a shop selling PCs and request them for a copy of windows OS (any version),and if there is enough space remaining on the CD maybe put a copy of latest photoshop and Adobe acrobat and they will gladly give it for around Rupees 50 (just over 1 US dollar), with the hope that in the future if I decide to buy any piece of hardware, I will buy it from them - it is the human psychology working here.

This is about localization not being free

[manugarg]

This is more about localization guys not just being free. Availability of code with Open Source softwares allows easy customization for various Indian languages. And mind you, India has more software developers than any other country.