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Linux on Nintendo DS, Update
fdevliegher writes "Trying to port Linux to various portable devices is hot nowadays. One project is porting Linux to the Nintendo DS, and is making big progress lately. Right after the DSLinux guys had a working bootable 2.6 kernel, they have put lots of effort in making the sash shell work, in which they also succeeded. The latest feature added is the touchscreen keyboard. It allows users to tap in the commands, providing a much easier input method than before (when only the buttons could be used to input text). Only the basics are being worked on for now, but the future uses of Linux on the Nintendo DS are practically unlimited. In other words, it might become a cheap alternative for a PDA, an emulator, movie viewer, maybe even internet browser, who knows."
Linux for NES
...thus spoke the waffle. and thus it was so.
Trying to port Linux to various portable devices is hot nowadays.
So hot. You should see the look on my girlfriend's face when I tell her, "Time to compile the kernel on this bad boy."
Gets 'em every time, baby.
Because it can't even run right on a regular PC? Because the kernel is about as stable as a ladder made of lincoln logs? Because it's large, unwieldy, difficult to maintain, and spreads itself across hard drives like a plague?
Now, if you had been talking about putting an actual production system like NetBSD onto the DS....
Speaking of Linux.... slashdot must be running it...
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Hi, Theo! You almost fooled us there with the "NetBSD" talk.
</sarcasm>
So you could emulate linux on a little handheld gaming system?
Pretty Pictures!
Fully usable Linux distro with Opie/GPE on the Dell Axim or on the DS? Either way, everyone wins. Finally, functional mobile Linux computers, cheaper and more easily obtained than any of the Sharp Zaurus PDA's. The biggest problem right now is third party support compared to Palms/Pocket PC's, but more Linux-enabled devices should hopefully pull in more developers and ports of desktop apps.
Let me be one of the many to explain to you that Slashdot is a place for people to share the interesting thing they've found on the net with the like minded geeks who would also enjoy them. That why stories from the NY Times, CNN, MSNBC, and yes, Hackaday get posted regularly. It's not a scam, it's not laziness, it's the fucking purpose of the site...
How about text recognition as an input method? I can do Palm Graffiti fine with my finger, so it should be eminently doable on a DS. Are there any similar open source projects out there?
Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
-kfg
This post mentioned several possible uses for linux on the DS, but what real uses are there? This is a neat trick, but only demonstrates what everyone already knows, the linux kernel is small. I would like to see one of these projects produce something that is actually usefull as something other than an academic exercise.
I've personally grown tired of hearing about how an electronic device, based on the same basic computing laws as any PC, can run Linux. It was cool when Dreamcast ran Linux and then it basically stopped there. Here's a spoiler: if it computes, it runs Linux :)
"...if people respected copyright more, like you guys do with the GPL so religiously, [the DMCA] wouldn't be necessary."
A PDA I think would be great - the hard part would be letting me sync it to iCal or something, but that would be excellent for me.
The other would be a Game Boy Color emulator. Yes, I know that the DS can play Game Boy Advance games, but there's still 4 Game Boy games I haven't finished yet (two Zelda games, "Dragon Warrior III" (almost done), and "Metal Gear Solid GBC"). I just want to have the ability to play them all on one device, and then I won't have to keep the GBA SP around all the time.
Not sure if it can do the latter - the processor might not be powerful enough for emulating the GBC, but the datebook might be good.
It makes me wonder why Palm hasn't tried to sell a Palm OS cartridge - I know I'd buy one, and even if it was Palm Light (let you sync up, maybe enter some things, but no major app support) it would almost be worth $50 - $60.
Just my opinion, of course. Congrats to the Linux on DS team, either way!
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
Having a stable linux distribution running on portable handheld console could very well mean the difference between high sales or a a total failure.
with the psp linux project, the gadget has had a huge amount of added features aincluding the ability to emulate other platforms (famicon/snes/gameboy).
The nintendo ds isnt very exciting or sexy as a handheld. The added feature of various linux hacks (eg a media player) could very well make the ds a more attractive toy.
perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
Whats the point of keeping the keys in the same layout as a keyboard? You cant type with it, by its very nature its a search and peck typing, so why not place the keys in ABC order. I think a much more logical layout would be:
[ esc ][ FKEYS ]
[ tab ][ NUMBERS ]
[ ctl ][ LETTERS ]
[ alt ][ LETTERS ]
[ sft ][ LETTERS ]
[ *** ][ NONLETTERS ]
[ SPACE ][enter]
The *** key, would be whatever that penguin one did. The row of special keys on the left would be twice the size of a letter/number/non. Space would take up almost a whole row on its own, minus the space the enter key takes up, which would be the size of one of the special keys. All the other keys would be the same size. Double taping shift would turn on caps lock. I just think it would make more sense to reorder the keys to make finding specific ones easier. There is no good reason to make the key layout match a standard keyboard.
who cares. We all know you can put linux on anything and do nothing with it. YAY!
Well, I think it's more of an excersize in prooving how easy it is to run linux on just about anything you can think of.
Sort of a "See, look what we can do!"
Pretty Pictures!
Actually, since it has two screens, it has 28% more pixels than a 320x240 screen.
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
actually, there is a company planning a cart that will act like a PDA and sync with Palm desktop (and theoretically isync) so to think its naive is a little short sighted.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
As soon as the DS is running an X server, DHCP and the touchscreen works then the DS can be used in any restaurant, in any bar, in any drive-thru, in any parking lot, as a point of sale or ordering device. The app runs on a $200 mini-itx computer that boots from compact flash and is connected to a wireless access point serving up DHCP.
Big Blue has spent R&D money thinking about this for us :)
http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/atomik is a layout for tapping. I used it on my m105, and it's pretty good. Definitely better than graffiti if you're standing still and don,t haveto pay attention to your surroundings, and somewhat better than qwerty or alphabetic (I used paper overlays on the graffiti area).
http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/sharktext uses the same layout in an ingenious way, where you trace a line between the letters of the word. You quickly remember the shape of frequent words, and it works surprisingly well (I'm using the java demo almost as often as the built-in TIP on my tablet PC).
Try Corewar @ www.koth.org - rec.games.corewar
You can get more functionality out of it. A media player has been mentioned in some posts.
Cheers,
RoadkillBunny
This might be one of the things Nintendo might have been referring to when they said "innovation." XD
Trying to port Linux to various portable devices is hot nowadays.
You're new here, aren't you?
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Let's hope it doesn't have "colour clash."
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Don't take it seriously, unless you don't mind having a busted DS.
:^)
I wanted to believe it too. But no, the DS hasn't got GBC-compatible hardware. Emulation is probaby on the way though. Hell, if the Linux development gets far along enough that SDL can be ported, GnuBoy would run! (Who knows at what speed, but still...
The Nintendo DS is a device which lots of people already own. I have one.
It happens, incidentally, to have an 802.11 chip built in, as well as enough power to potentially be turned to non-game uses.
Can you really not see why some people might consider it potentially useful to have the ability to run general applications, such as a web browser, ssh client, IM client, etc, on a device which you might frequently have in your pocket anyhow?
If not, well, I do, and I intend to do exactly this once the flash card situation gets a bit better, so fuck off, it isn't your problem and it isn't hurting you.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
The site has not gone down yet. :)
X is going to be tough, only 4mb of RAM for the whole system.
If they can just get the wifi to work, then this would be worth having on slashdot.
How about a port of Linux for the Commodore 64?
Someone here said, "if it computes, it can run Linux". OK, the gauntlet has been thrown down... anyone wanna pick it up? Can it be done in just 64K?
Willie...
These little personal devices are great multimedia servers, too. They're cheap, battery-backed up, no moving parts. Their tiny UI is too limited for anything but selecting modes, for everyone but dedicated enthusiasts (gamers and geeks). But telnet into them, plug in speakers/mic, and they're already great for audio multimedia (music, voice, alarms). And some can actually output video, either builtin or in a cartridge. They are the stinging suckers on Linux's tentacles, slowly wrapping around every multimedia niche in the sea.
--
make install -not war
I have not looked at the site yet...but im wondering. Will this effect normal DS gaming on the unit. Pardon me for my stupidity :)
How long have you been sarcasmic? It must have been amusing to be around you.
"WTF to people bother with this."
In this particular case, it'd be handy if the DS had SSH running on it. Maybe even a mail client. Since it has a touch screen, an OSK would work fairly well on it. It'd be a great little $150 doohickey for Linux admins.
Other than that, I agree with you. The DS is a good match for this sort of thing, but the PSP isn't. What a difference a touch screen makes.
"Derp de derp."
The Nintendo DS is the perfect platform for playing Nethack. It's dual screen means that all of the various nethack commands and options can be put on the bottom touch screen (perhaps even stats), while the top can be left exclusivly for the game display. That it is a portable platform means that you can play Nethack anywhere (important to the millions additcted to the game...)
I understand that simply having Linux on the DS doesn't mean Nethack would be trivial to port, but it is a step in the right direction IMHO. I'm holding my breath.
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
Shut up.
...and what a difference an extremely long battery life makes too. Even with fairly heavy use I charge my DS about 1 time a week.
Against the grain
I've heard that the handhelds guys are trying to port Linux to the Nokia 770.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
With how powerful the Nintendo DS hardware is compared to the original (and still useful) old Palm pilots I am not surprised it could be a PDA, but it seems Nintendo already thought of that.
Nintendo had recently licensed Palm OS based PDA software without any details on why they had done it. Nintendo sources have now revealed that the V-Pocket patent filed by Nintendo a few days ago concerns this licensing. E3 2005 will be the first witness of the Nintendo V-Pocket suite: a complete line of personal organizer tools for the Nintendo DS. Nintendo believes PDA software coupled with the already existing touch screen of the DS will put it above its high profiled rival, the PSP.
my other line was voulanteering to lend a boot up there!
I think Linux on the DS is cool. I can think of a few neat applications and I'm sure the creative hackers out there can think up some fun projects for LinuxDS.
:-(
There is a company called Charmed Labs that makes a programmable robot cartridge for the old GBA. They're probably working on a similar add on for the DS right now. But with Linux on the DS you don't even need to robot cartridge to have fun, or you could probably by the cartridge for extras like easily accessible ADC/DAC lines. You could make a little hand-held oscilliscope or something.
GBA's were being used as information accessories for some car races. The cartridges that you could rent had wireless units that would get realtime info from the race.
Someone else was using GBA's as little hand-held real-time engine information units. You could tap into your car's microprocessor and get some info out.
Stuff like that would just be easier to do with Linux on the DS. It's all good.
I'd buy a DS just to get Linux running on it. Now if I could only find the time to play with a project like that -- I already work too hard
Religion is poison to rationality, and we lose sight of that at our own peril. -- Lurker2288
...does it run Windows?
Circumcision is child abuse.
It won't have even a tiny effect on sales. Look how few people use linux on the desktop, and you can quite easily install that without any hacking.
Because sometimes, when you work on getting an OS such as Linux to work on obsecure or unusual hardware, it can help iron out bugs and make the overall OS more portable.
Look at the work being done to get Linux to work on the latest iPod generation - Linux on the iPod could be very useful to some people, especially because of the amount of people who have an iPod who happen to be geeks or similar.
The benefits may not be seen right away, but sometimes, its the small achievements that make a difference in the long run.
Brielle
I guess this story proves linux truely is portable, unlike the flux of bsd users deny.
Uh, you know there's a difference between a port and emulation, right?
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
- IT: Is There a Place for a $500 Ethernet Card?
- OpenUsability and KDE: Cooperating on KPDF
- "Here is an interesting link that shows how to convert your laptop into something called as walltop"
- Book Reviews: Data Crunching
- "Ever wondered how they put a mainboard together? HEXUS.net has taken a tour of ECS's production facilities, following a mainboard from PCB creation, right through to burn-in testing"
- Firefox Extension for Applied Social Networking
- Kazaa and Skype Co-founder Interviewed
- "Open Source Molecules"
- Kodak To Stop Making Black and White Paper
- An article about a country about twice the size of Kansas City
...did you only just start reading this site today or something? This is like writing in to the Dairy Farming Industry Bulletin expressing concern they have too many articles about dairy farming.Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Now let the community do the rest of the process:
* porting Nessus
* porting AirSnort
* porting tcpdump
http://www.michel.eti.br
Well the rumor as of a few months ago http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=76 01/ was that Nintendo either licensing the Palm OS or some apps and/or technology.
Personally I think this would be a wonderful move on Nintendo's part. With the competition between NDS and the PSP so close why not take full advantage of the DS's trump card: input! The DS may never be the pr0n machine that Sony has turned out but surely it would be trivial to throw on a few hundred dollars worth of functionality with a cartridge (or even firmware in the next revision).
Honestly, of all the fucked up unfounded speculation to me this just makes plain sense. If you take Nintendo at theor word this is supposedly a machine for adults - so lets see some adult software.
---- The real Slashdot is still here. You just have to browse at -1 to read the comments.
XP on DS then???
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
If someone put the time and effort in, the touch screen and portability of this would make it a wonderful electronic instrument to perform with. How about wifi control of midi devices (with an external box converting info to midi) with a step sequencer controlled by the touch screen? or a DS based LSDJ like tracker? sample editing on the bottom screen, tracker on the top...
Oh the Hackadot Door, The Hackadot Door. Let's peek through the Hackadot Door. With Songs and Stories and So Much More! Doo doo dee doo doo! At the Hackadot Door.
I had to.
does anyone know if there are any legal issues when developing applications for the nintendo ds without nintendos licensed sdk? are there any statements by nintendo? i think the user interface is great. it should be used for serious application, too.
I love the idea of people cross compiling linux on all kinds of nifty and exotic devices. I believe this is a great way of learning (and teaching) about computer hardware and operating systems in general (not to mention flaunting linux portability). But seriously. Using your DS as a PDA or whatever is like using your Xbox as a Word Processor. I'd rather play games on it thanks. I'll get a PDA if I need a PDA. I'm sure this whole thing started as 'I ported it cause I can'. Why promote it as something it's not?
...is to be able to run Linux on my Roomba.
-----
Sorry, I'm only a 1336 h4x0r.
I wonder if a DS has enough CPU power to decode an MPEG-2 stream. If it has, then it could well be feasible to stream a IPTV (e.g. from VideoLan Server) over the wireless networking. Which would make a DS a pretty cool handheld media client!
Why is this hot? Is there really a demand for installing an OS with no games on a hand held game-console?
Instead of wasting all those brain cycles porting Linux to a DX, how about the Linux boys spend some time making a consistent user interface or fixing sound.
I thought the battle cry was "Linux on the desktop" not "Linux on the handheld game console."
They should look into the maemo project that Nokia has for their Nokia 770: http://www.maemo.org/
Yes, but why? Assuming you could get Apache to run, you networking capabilities are severely limited. Actually, based on the specs, it doesn't look like there is much you could actually do with a ds.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
The DS has WiFi, a headphone jack and a mic. Where's the Skype cartridge?
Hey, I bey Skype could make some money by making a really small libSkype and licensing it to DS developers to provide voice chat in game. "You don't have to run a server like with TeamSpeak - our network does all of the work for you!"
The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
Let's see, you get a 67 Mhz ARM and a 33 MHz ARM and 4M RAM and a couple of low resolution displays for $150. This doesn't seem particularly inexpensive to me, not when you can get a 206 MHz StrongARM or 300-400 MHz XScale, along with 32-64M RAM and a high resolution touch-screen for less than that with a remaindered Pocket PC. And there's already a variety of Linux-on-Pocket-PC-hardware projects to choose from.
No, this one is purely a matter of the hack value... the DS hardware is no bargain.
Much of the utility of Linux on a DS would come from its network connection ability. Given that that is currently not well understood, it may be helpful to donate to the DS Wi-Fi Bounty. (Disclaimer: I am running that bounty.)
StoneCypher is Full of BS