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From Alien to The Matrix

Spencerian writes "Roz Kaveney's From Alien to the Matrix is definitely a love-to-hate book for me, and probably for most fanboys who've forgotten more than the author knows about the meanings, philosophy, and humor found in many popular SF films of the last 35 years. If you love to argue and curse when you read something that's so way off base in interpretation or appears to lack any research in even the basic meanings that most Americans found in a SF film, then this is your book. But if you hate arguing with your non-fannish significant other on why you really liked a particular movie, save your money by not buying this book. Oh, and dump your boy/girlfriend, too." Read on for the rest of Spencerian's review. From Alien to The Matrix: Reading Science Fiction Film author Roz Kaveney pages 208 publisher I.B.Tauris rating 4 reviewer Kevin H. Spencer ISBN 1850438056 summary For kooky, way-off-base interpretations of several Sci-Fi films, this is your book.

The book seemed interesting enough from the cover, given a pleasant upsurge in the number of meaning and philosophy books on many SF films. I was expecting another take on my current joy, The Matrix universe, as well as some tidbits from other movies to get me delving for the hidden jokes and thoughts of a classic or two, like the Alien movies. Despite the title, the book is not all inclusive on film SF and does not discuss with any significance any of the latest Marvel superhero movies, and definitely skips discussion on the the Lord of the Rings trilogy--a tragic omission in light of its popular and Oscar-winning performance that brought SF/Fantasy to Hollywood legitimacy. Specifically, the writer discusses and contrasts elements from a handful of interesting SF movies of the last quarter-century, including

* The Matrix trilogy, including elements from "The Animatrix" and the "Enter the Matrix" game
* The Alien movie saga
* Galaxy Quest
* Dark City
* The Star Wars saga
* The Terminator saga
* Strange Days
* Small Soldiers

Small Soldiers? That was science-fiction? That was worthy of discussion in a book on SF film meanings? Surely there were other films of the last 25 years related to the chapter's subject on robots and AI that were more germane, such as "Bicentennial Man," "I, Robot," "Star Trek: Nemesis," and even the writer's home favorite of Marvin from "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" (not the 2005 release, but the 1980's TV depiction from the BBC, since this book was apparently printed in the early months of this year).

This book was written by someone that doesn't appear to read or watch much in the way of SF beyond what they see at the movies. Realizing that the writer was British, I tried (and failed) to give her allowance for her non-American point-of-view on the topic, hoping for some enlightenment over my decadent Cowboy Way of watching SF here in America. There are many areas in the book where her interpretation simply is misinformed. The writer apparently had chosen to write her book as a self-interpretation of the movies in question, failing almost completely to read other interpretations or discussions from the movie's directors or screenwriters.

The book as a whole, particularly with its monotonous small text and a complete lack of the simplest illustrations or even eye-catching chapter header graphics, feels like a dry collegiate dissertation written by someone who could give a damn about the subject matter and just needs a passing grade.

One example of the author's lack of research or understanding was confirmed by my own mother, a woman of 64 years that enjoys the Matrix movies as much as her son but has developed her understanding of the movies on her own, without my coaching. In one example in the book, the writer says that Neo, in "The Matrix," was told by the Oracle that he was not the One. In fact, the Oracle said no such thing--it was Neo who told himself that he was not the One. The Oracle, after toying with Neo to a degree by examining his hands and face, said, "...but you already know what I am going to say, don't you?" with Neo completing his own assumption, "I'm not the One." The Oracle implied that Neo was indeed in possession of the ability, but that his mind was not ready--a point confirmed by Neo's self-doubt (Neo's pod-name, "Thomas" is a Gnostic Christianity reference to that apostle's doubt of the resurrection of Christ). My mom, of all people, got this, but it was lost completely by the writer.

Other points in the book are just outright wrong and filled with error. Quoting a description about the climatic moments near the end of "The Matrix Revolutions": "Neo sets off to interview the Machines--along the way he is blinded and Trinity killed by a human who has been absorbed by Smith." In fact, Trinity was attacked, but not killed by Bane/Smith -- she would die moments after their hovercraft crash lands near the center of the Machine City.

Bad fact checking is a hallmark of this book. One glaring example was in finding the name of actress Nichelle Nichols of "Star Trek" badly warped to 'Michelle Nichols' in a discussion of the movie "Galaxy Quest." A sentence discussing the kiss between Persephone and Niobe in the cut-scenes of the game "Enter the Matrix" wrongly named Jada Pinkett-Smith's character as "Phoebe." Oh, no. What would Ross and Chandler say?

That's not to say the the whole book is totally tainted. At worse, this book is no less informed than your non-fannish significant other, a person that most of us will still take some time to listen to for wisdom or enjoyment, even if their views seem stupid initially. One quote I will leave to your enjoyment or disdain regarding a take on Darth Sidious from the Star Wars trilogy: "Palpatine is not just a machine politician, but a Dark Lord in the manner of Tolkien, and his corruption of Anakin Skywalker to the point where he becomes Darth Vader parallels the seduction of the human kings who became the Nazgul."

Her discussion on the Alien movies, particularly "Aliens," showed some insight, indicating the writer was more familiar with this material, or just more attentive. I'd guess she was most comfortable with the Alien saga--more than one-third of the book was devoted completely to the Alien movies. The book's title would be more appropriate as From Alien to Alien and More about Alien: And Some Meaningless Discussion About Some Lesser Science Fiction.

The writer name-drops Philip C. Dick, William Gibson, and Heinlein in an attempt to sound knowledgeable. "Big whoop," you might say,"as fanboys to various interests, we ALL do that kind of thing." But like the most decrepit and ill-informed of us non-mundanes, the writer seems to do this more to impress and less to inform, compare or contrast. The names just stick out like they're supposed to have meaning just because they are in the book.

Maybe this is a British thing. Maybe I'm wrong or not as enlightened while scanning this book (which is, unfortunately, the best I could do while trying to read it before I began stammering uncontrollably to myself moments later about some bad interpretation). Maybe I need a book on interpreting this book. I'd like to keep my mind open to the possibility (however unlikely) that this was really not such a bad book for most of us. Buy the book if you like Alien saga interpretations or if you like to invoke apoplexy in yourself or others. Otherwise, look for my copy of this book at your local discount used book store--and don't mind the drink stains and coffee cup rings. The book also doubles as an excellent coaster.

You can purchase From Alien to The Matrix: Reading Science Fiction Film from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

249 comments

  1. Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by lecithin · · Score: 5, Funny

    "If you love to argue and curse when you read something that's so way off base in interpretation or appears to lack any research in even the basic meanings that most Americans found in a SF film, then this is your book"

    And this is our website!!!

    --
    It could be worse, it could be Monday.
    1. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by ZephyrXero · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Does the book mention that Matrix 1 was a rip-off of an old script from 1981 called "The Third Eye"? ...this also explains why 2 & 3's plot was so different and poor.

      --
      "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
    2. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by dancpsu · · Score: 2

      Uninformative as slashdot threads may be, it looks like this book may be worse. There doesn't seem to be many movies between the "Alien" and "Matrix" series. Not to mention the author's short-list contains "Small Soldiers" and "Galaxy Quest". The most thoughtful sci-fi films aren't included. I think we at least need to include the Philip K Dick inspired movies:

      Blade Runner
      Total Recall
      A.I.
      Minority Report
      Paycheck

      --
      "Scientists don't change their minds, they just die." -- Max Planck
    3. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by SilentChris · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes, and on Slashdot, it's apparently not uncommon to read book reviews that sound like they were done by the Comic Book Guy. "The author refers to Neo's tool as a 'spoon' instead of a 1954 New Age stainless-steel piece of cutlery? Unthinkable!"

    4. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was with you there, until the last one.

    5. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by lawpoop · · Score: 1
      I don't think AI was based on Dick's work. This website says " It would've been better to leave as is the title of the book the film is based on: Supertoys Last All Summer Long by Brian Aldiss. "

      But maybe Aldiss was influenced or inspired by Dick? I don't know.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    6. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by pizen · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Thank you for putting the Comic Book Guy image in my head. I re-read the review and it was much more enjoyable with the Comic Book Guy voice in my head.

    7. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by h4rm0ny · · Score: 1


      If you want a good book on Aliens, you could do worse than look Google for Screening the Sacred which isn't specifically focused on Sci-Fi but does contain a brilliant chapter on Alien / Aliens by Janice Hocker Rushing.

      She also has another book called Projecting the Shadow: The Cyborg Hero in American Film. which is specifically sci-fi but predates the Matrix.

      I definitely recommend anything by this woman for those who want genuine depth and insight.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    8. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by gowen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sod Paycheck. Stick Robocop in as the best Dick novel Dick never wrote.

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    9. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by nokilli · · Score: 1

      I subscribed to this theory myself, but am willing to see how V turns out.

      If it ends up being good, I'm going to go with another theory... that the W's had totally different stories planned for Reloaded and Revolutions, but the studio shitcanned them.

      Obviously, these movies should have focused on the fight within the Matrix, that is, Neo's efforts to rally the citizenry to rise up in revolt and overthrow the machine regime controlling it all.

      But of course Hollywood isn't interested in giving anybody any ideas. We're already one spark away from mass revolt as it is.

      So the studio said no, and the brothers, utterly dejected, just went after the paycheck with the hope of one day being able to have final cut... maybe even remaking the sequels.

      I don't know how else to explain how the first movie could be so fantastic, and the 2nd & 3rd so shitty.

    10. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      this also explains why 2 & 3's plot was so different and poor.

      That's probably only part of it. The other part of it was that the Wachowski Brothers originally wanted to make only one movie. When they couldn't fit all the material into a single movie, they decided to stretch it out into three. The results are quite obvious as the first one got the bulk of the intrigue, while the remaining movies were required to be less story dense and packed with more filler.

      A similar situation can be seen with the new Star Wars Trilogy. Lucas obviously tried to plan things a bit on the fly, and ended up with 60-70% of the story packed into the last movie. Some estimate that as much as 15-20% of the material intended for the trilogy got cut from the movies. That's what left such a large gap for the "Clone Wars" animated series, and the new up-coming television show.

    11. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by infochuck · · Score: 1

      She's good about bitching and moaning, and using "trilogeez" and "motionz" and other 31337 spelling variants, but I see no real substance here. Just a bunch of press releases.

      Why won't she let us READ her original scripts, and decide for OURSELVES if she was ripped off. What, is she afraid somebody will steal 'em? Again?

    12. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by m50d · · Score: 1

      Dark City is an awesome proper science fiction movie. (IMO of course). I think Minority Report was more an action film, if you're going to include that then I want Equilibrium (awesome action film with the plot lifted from Fahrenheit 451), I, Robot, and Demolition Man.

      --
      I am trolling
    13. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does the book mention that Matrix 1 was a rip-off of an old script from 1981 called "The Third Eye"? ...this also explains why 2 & 3's plot was so different and poor.

      Hoax! Have you actually read any of "The Third Eye"? For one, it's a book, not a script. Secondly, it only resembles The Matrix in that there is a hero that saves the world from evil forces. Kind of like most stories that have ever been written or spoken since the dawn of man. It takes place in the desert for christ sakes.

      The woman making the accusations also claims to have magic powers and the ability to prophesy. Basically, she thinks she's The Oracle.

      If you read the page you link to, you'll read crap like : Respect and honor goes out to the vybration manifested as Sophia Stewart. As prophesized by Sophia, she and anyone who standz beside her will come under fire and close scrutiny regarding their interests in Sophia Stewart.

      I mean, come on...you've got to be a real sucker.

      Conveniently, she's selling CDs, and takes donations: Although Sophia will eventually become one of the richest people on the planet, she isn't just yet. With Sophia's permission, I call upon the people to consider makeing a donation to help Sophia with her legal expenses. There are millionz of fanz world-wide so she's not asking for large sumz. Any amount will help. Even donationz of $1 can go a long way if you do the math.

    14. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by overbom · · Score: 1

      You can always pretend that it's Vezzini from Princess Bride.

      "There was a typo where an 'N' was supposed to be but there was an "M" instead. Inconceivable!"

      I also like the fact that this Spencerian fellow advises me to dump my girlfriend if she doesn't like the same movies I do. Excellent love advice from slashdot.

    15. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by glsunder · · Score: 1

      Does the book mention that Matrix 1 was a rip-off of an old script from 1981 called "The Third Eye"?

      I'd never heard this before. It appears that she won, and won big: $2.5B for matrix and terminator. I'm guessing the axe that killed them was that she submitted it to "to an ad placed by the Wachowski Brothers" in the mid 80s. Wow.

      I did some looking on the net and came up with a few links, but one will cover it for most who only want confirmation of the win:
      http://www.femmixx.com/matrixlawsuit.html

    16. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by geekoid · · Score: 1

      well, there where many plot threads left dangling that just kept dangling. The had things out there that could have lead to some interesting story telling.

      Traditionally, Hollywood doesn't mind movies with revolutionary overtones.

      I alomst said:
      Traditionally, Hollywood doesn't mind revolting movies.
      Also true, but a different thing all together.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    17. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by tmhsiao · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not to mention the author's short-list contains "Small Soldiers" and "Galaxy Quest".

      Granted, the reviewer neglects to mention that the two chapters on the aforementioned movies are labelled "Comedy 1" and "Comedy 2." His omission seems a bit disingenuous, as if his primary goal is to condemn the book and any information that does not support his thesis can be ignored.

      Indeed, complaining that a book with the subtitle "Reading Science Fiction Film" does not include anything about the Lord of the Rings trilogy is not unlike bitching that your fruit salad has no bacon.

      From what I gather from the description I've read, the book is less an examination of the philosophical underpinnings of individual science fiction stories, and more about the affect that science fiction films have had on both filmmaking and science fiction storytelling.

      --
      "My God...It's full of ads!" -Fry, about the Internet, Futurama
    18. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Watts+Martin · · Score: 1

      That web site is really wince-inducing, I'm sorry. Maybe Ms. Stewart has something to her claims, but the fact that she also is apparently claiming that the "Terminator" stories were ripped off from her seriously undercuts her credibility. We've already been through this once, folks: Harlan Ellison sued Cameron for taking the idea of "Terminator" from two of his Outer Limits episodes, and Cameron settled out of court. Perhaps Ms. Stewart should be suing Mr. Ellison for obviously stealing her stories for his TV scripts.

      Or, perhaps "a Christ-like figure fighting against the dark side of humanity's own creations" is not such a strikingly original concept in fiction. Hmm.

    19. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by dancpsu · · Score: 1

      here the site claims that: It is also rumored that Stanley Kubrick's in-production film, A.I., is based on Dick's Martian Time Slip

      But I'm not sure as I haven't read the story.

      --
      "Scientists don't change their minds, they just die." -- Max Planck
    20. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by dr.badass · · Score: 1

      I'd never heard this before. It appears that she won, and won big: $2.5B for matrix and terminator. I'm guessing the axe that killed them was that she submitted it to "to an ad placed by the Wachowski Brothers" in the mid 80s. Wow.

      $2.5B is the total gross from all of the Matrix and Terminator films. She did not win this, nor would she. Furthermore, the "official" site (linked by the parent) says that the "big" court date is set for July 2005.

      Don't believe everything you read.

      --
      Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
    21. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You didn't read closely enough. That's not her website, it's just someone who "supports" her.

    22. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by zebez · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wikipedia to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_Stewart She won the permission to continue with the case. Nothing else.

    23. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by dr.badass · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Obviously, these movies should have focused on the fight within the Matrix, that is, Neo's efforts to rally the citizenry to rise up in revolt and overthrow the machine regime controlling it all.

      This would run counter to the basic mythological premise of the hero. He is the object of the story, and he must redeem and save humanity, because it cannot do it on it's own.

      IMHO, the sequels were bad enough because they diverged from this. They'd have been worse if they demoted Neo to "just a leader".

      But of course Hollywood isn't interested in giving anybody any ideas. We're already one spark away from mass revolt as it is. So the studio said no, and the brothers, utterly dejected, just went after the paycheck with the hope of one day being able to have final cut... maybe even remaking the sequels.

      I don't know how else to explain how the first movie could be so fantastic, and the 2nd & 3rd so shitty.


      I think that's a lot of conspiracy theory to cover up the possibility that the brothers are basically hacks when not following a highly traditional mythological structure. (Hey, most screenwriters are hacks, so they at lest get points for trying.)

      They had a good idea (traditional heroic monomyth with a modern action-flick theme), and then pushed it way too far into pretentious pseudo-intellectual garbage without backing it up. In other words: it was obvious they had read a lot of books, it wasn't obvious that they had learned anything from them.

      I personally think they got too wrapped up in making the story refer outside of itself, instead of making it's internal symbology consistent. Compare Star Wars, which is another straight up hero myth, but without all of the allusory smokescreen.

      --
      Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
    24. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by niktemadur · · Score: 1

      V, like the original Matrix, is a story written by another author (or authors, David Lloyd and Alan Moore), so that is firm basis for you to be optimistic about the upcoming Wachowski film.

      However, I have to say I liked Reloaded better than the original Matrix, no point getting into individual plot elements about it, or to get into Revolutions either, but here are a few reasons:

      - The Wachowskis are incredible visual directors, case in point being the highway chase sequence, which not only managed to avoid all the trappings that have made this type of scene a dreaded cliché, but actually reinvented the "visual language" of the chase, much like, in their own day, Bullit, The French Connection, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and Terminator 2. Also keep in mind the fight with a thousand Smiths, which reinvented the fight sequence.

      - The story of the original Matrix was nothing new to most fans of sci-fi, as the concept of the Matrix goes back to the nightmare fiction of Harlan Ellison, think along the lines of "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" (BTW, the original Terminator is dedicated "to Harlan Ellison"), with elements of Philip K Dick and anime, among many others. All this is excellent, but the movie dipped sharply for me when they turned Schwartzenegger in the cop-filled lobby. Matrix Reloaded avoided the Schwartzenegger Cliché altogether.

      - Did the obtuse plot points of Reloaded confound your expectations? Well then, you were feeling the exact same thing that Neo was, so the Wachowskis effectively put the public in Neo's shoes. The Matrix was NOT what you expected or hoped it would be. Neo himself was NOT what you expected or hoped he would be. These plot twists were decidedly dark and uncommercial. And extremely fresh to boot, as most of them I had never come across before, and I bet most people, even avid sci-fi fans, also hadn't.

      I do have to say that I disliked the cliffhanger ending of Reloaded, felt it was gimmicky, but that's about it.

      I'm not saying I loved one and hated the rest or anything like that, as I greatly appreciated all three films, which are cerebral blockbusters, a rare creature indeed.

      --
      Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
    25. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by FoXDie · · Score: 1

      How can you possibly think this is a reliable source with so many extra Z's? Quote: "The Terminator & The Matrix Series, both creationz of Sophia Stewart have amassed more than $2.6BILLION! To date, she hasn't received a dime!"

    26. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Milikki · · Score: 1

      Wow, what an incredibly annoying website. It loaded up some crap, distorted rap thing in the background with no (obvious) way to turn it off. I'll give it ten seconds then add it to hosts as a 127 url.

      Kevin

    27. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by XO · · Score: 1

      I loved the first movie, taken on it's own, and i love the trilogy, taken as a whole.

      Apparently they are still telling the story, using Matrix Online. I have no idea wtf is going on in there, but they can have fun with that.

      I almost wish that they could've made a lot more out of the series. They could've made a dozen Matrix movies, all fit in between 1 and 2. Even at the end of 1, Neo was just figuring out what a badass he was... they could've run that out for a bunch more. And should've!

      --
      "Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
    28. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Moofie · · Score: 1

      I was disappointed with Reloaded, and particularly with Revolutions, because they took the easy way out.

      Why could Neo kill Sentinels in real life? Because he, uh, could. All of a sudden. Yeah.

      Lame answer.

      I didn't care for either the 1000 Smiths fight, nor for the Smith-Neo fight at the end of Revolutions. Neither was as tight or beautiful to watch as the fight between Morpheus and Neo in the dojo. Yeah, they were all special-effecty, but not as beautifully choreographed. Even the Neo-Seraph fight (which I'd been looking forward to) was only mediocre.

      The big brawl at the Merovingian's house was great. The upside down fight in Revolutions was lame. The chase scene in Reloaded was great.

      They had some opportunities for really, REALLY good storytelling, and really, REALLY good action scenes, and I think they just wimped out.

      Disappointing.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    29. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "That's probably only part of it. The other part of it was that the Wachowski Brothers originally wanted to make only one movie."

      Also consider that their motivation here was to do a live-action 'anime', not a mind-bending sci-fi intrigue-a-thon. It was a loose plot intended to tie together some strange kung-fu scenes. They said almost as much in the Matrix Revisited DVD.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    30. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by kfg · · Score: 1

      The irony is that this review contains so many errors and apoplexy inducing comments, in this particular Science Fiction fan's opinion, that I'm likely going to have to read a book I'm not really otherwise interested in, just to see how off base the review was or was not.

      "I knew Foundation was going to suck when I opened the book and discovered that the first chapter was labeled "l." So I didn't really read it, just skimmed it, and discoverd I was right, it didn't have pictures in it, just a bunch of words. Avoid it."

      Forgive me, but. . .WTF?

      KFG

    31. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by ZephyrXero · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the sentinel thing bothered me alot too. I figured they were gonna try to say that the "real" world was just another matrix, so the green one was really a matrix within a matrix....or something.

      Another thing to add to the complaint list on fights...the final battle between Smith and Neo. 1. Too much CG. 2. It felt like a live action Dragon Ball Z fight (read lame) and 3. Why would Smith fight Neo with a hundred copies earlier, but in this fight the millions of smiths all just sit and watch?

      --
      "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
    32. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by ZephyrXero · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      That wasn't her own person site idiot, she doesnt' have one. And yes, I have seen portions of the script on another site...and it was damn near word for word.

      --
      "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
    33. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by ZephyrXero · · Score: 1

      I don't know so much about the Terminator part...my theory on that is she decided to let it go orginally but when the Matrix came out with an almost identical story she decided to go ahead and sue the Terminator guys while she was at it.

      --
      "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
    34. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by ZephyrXero · · Score: 1

      It's not really that great a site, but it's extensive. You can google for hundreds of other snippets here and there from more reputable sites if you'd like ;)

      --
      "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
    35. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by ZephyrXero · · Score: 1

      Sorry...lol. Didn't realize it was there...good ol' Flashblock took care of it for me ;)

      --
      "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
    36. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      I'd actually read this potentially interesting material if whoever made the site didn't have some kind of OCD thing going on with the letter Z. Wotta chump.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    37. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by JeTmAn81 · · Score: 1

      The abundance of posts like this indicate that a lot of the criticisms of the sequels are generated by people who didn't really bother digging into the story and really paying attention to what happened. The explanation for Neo's real world control of the sentinels rests in the Architect's explanation of the function of the One. Basically, the One gets his power from the machines themselves, the machine "mainframe". This is the thing that also controls all the sentinels. Therefore the One has the power to act against sentinels using the machine mainframe as a conduit. Admittedly, there are a couple of small leaps you have to make along with this, namely that Neo's control is localized (he could zap the nearby sentinels but not every sentinel in existence) and that his brain can be connected to the network of the machines without being wired directly in to a computer (a wireless connection, in other words). But I think there were certainly explanations for this as well as for just about every other question raised by the skeptics of this trilogy, found right in the film. Definitely more than "well, just because." I wish people would really take the time to explore what this trilogy was really about (the excellent DVD boxset contains a fountain of insight), and criticize the sequels for the things which truly deserve criticism; poor acting and dialogue, and an overemphasis on CGI special effects.

      --
      "Me? Lady, I'm your worst nightmare -- a pumpkin with a gun."
    38. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by JeTmAn81 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Whoops, since I don't post much I still wasn't quite sure if html formatting was necessary to preserve line breaks...I'm resubmitting my previous post in a readable form, feel free to mod down the original one. And now, on with the post:

      The abundance of posts like this indicate that a lot of the criticisms of the sequels are generated by people who didn't really bother digging into the story and really paying attention to what happened.

      The explanation for Neo's real world control of the sentinels rests in the Architect's explanation of the function of the One. Basically, the One gets his power from the machines themselves, the machine "mainframe". This is the thing that also controls all the sentinels. Therefore the One has the power to act against sentinels using the machine mainframe as a conduit.

      Admittedly, there are a couple of small leaps you have to make along with this, namely that Neo's control is localized (he could zap the nearby sentinels but not every sentinel in existence) and that his brain can be connected to the network of the machines without being wired directly in to a computer (a wireless connection, in other words). But I think there were certainly explanations for this as well as for just about every other question raised by the skeptics of this trilogy, found right in the film. Definitely more than "well, just because."

      I wish people would really take the time to explore what this trilogy was really about (the excellent DVD boxset contains a fountain of insight), and criticize the sequels for the things which truly deserve criticism; poor acting and dialogue, and an overemphasis on CGI special effects.

      --
      "Me? Lady, I'm your worst nightmare -- a pumpkin with a gun."
    39. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Moiche · · Score: 1
      If memory serves, and it will have to since I don't feel like finding a script, Agent Smith/Oracle indicates that he foresaw Neo's loss, and that his duplicates would therefore stay out because they weren't needed. Thing is -- Smith does win the fight, and only after converting Neo does he explode. Presumably, the Oracle anticipated all of this, and this was her motivation for allowing Agent Smith to infect her in the first place.

      That being said, the whole premise of the final movie was internally incoherent. If Neo represented the error factor in the Machine's attempt to create a perfectly captivating cyber-world to enslave humanity, why would he be the key to defeating a rogue agent that was never fighting on the Machine's behalf in the first place? The implication is that the Machines and Neo brokered a peace based on Neo's ability to defeat Agent Smith, but there is never any explanation about how an X factor like Smith fits in with the supposed cyles of defeat/rebirth of the exiled humans. Any attempt at profound analysis of this material beyond the first movie is probably a non-starter.

      Moiche

    40. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Moiche · · Score: 1
      Agreed. But occasionaly even the professionals write a review that starts with: "I'll admit that I loathed this book so profoundly, I could not coax myself into finishing it." Presumably to act as an advisory more than anything else.

      To be perfectly honest, what I found most jarring about the review, was the reviewers indication that he had purchased the book in part because it had a promising cover. Gee -- isn't there an aphorism about that?

      Moiche

    41. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Ah, so I'm not smart enough to appreciate the subtleties of the storytelling?

      Bullshit.

      I heard how the Architect explained the relationship between Neo and the machines. I heard the Oracle say that Neo had the same powers in the real world and the machine world. That was not sufficient for me to suspend disbelief. It just happened, and they said "Oh yeah, he can do that." To my mind, it broke the rules of the universe they'd set up. It was straight up unvarnished deus ex machina, and that is not good storytelling.

      I shouldn't have to watch the DVD box set to explain the holes in the plot. I like watching DVD box sets (LotR, anyone?) to enhance and enrich my enjoyment of movies, not to patch over shoddy storytelling.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    42. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by JeTmAn81 · · Score: 1

      I never said anything about anybody not being "smart enough". I don't consider myself an idiot, and I didn't perceive even half of the things going on in the trilogy before I watched the extras on the box set.

      I already gave you evidence that Neo controlling the sentinels was explained in the film, but what you seem to want is an immediate explanation right then. Well, that's just not the way good storytelling works. In fact, in many great films some things are never explained at all and just taken for granted.

      Take Superman, for instance. How can he fly? Was that ever explained? And yet Superman was an excellent film. People just take it for granted that Superman can fly, because that's part of his character and it's a lot of fun.

      So I guess the point is, if you're expecting every minute turn of the plot of every film to come packaged with instant explanations, get used to disappointment.

      --
      "Me? Lady, I'm your worst nightmare -- a pumpkin with a gun."
    43. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by kfg · · Score: 1

      My criticism of his criticism isn't based so much on his admission that he didn't really read the book (I've not a read a book a few times myself), but rather on his admission of what he was looking for while not reading it.

      KFG

    44. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Moofie · · Score: 1

      You don't understand.

      "generated by people who didn't really bother digging into the story and really paying attention to what happened."

      That was your opener. I DID pay attention. I WAS looking for explanations of why stuff happened, and those explanations were not sufficient for my satisfaction.

      A good storyteller sets up the universe, and that universe is self-consistent. Superman can fly. That's fine...I didn't have any issue whatsoever when Neo started flying around. That was great. However, when Superman flys around the world backwards fast enough to stop time, my suspension of disbelief goes away. When the storyteller's universe does something NOT self-consistent, when he says "Oh, well, Neo has to stop these Sentinels here so, um, he...does. He's got 802.11 in his brain." that's called deus ex machina, and it's bad storytelling.

      I don't want everything on a silver platter. I want them to not break my suspension of disbelief because they needed to manufacture a cliffhanger.

      I would have put up with the over-reliance on cheesy effects (that was conspicuously absent in the first movie...I thought the effects were VERY well done) had they given me a meaty story to sink my teeth into. They simply dropped the ball.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    45. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but what if all of a sudden Superman couldn't fly anymore? Don't you think that would require some explanation?

    46. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
      Thank you for putting the Comic Book Guy image in my head. I re-read the review and it was much more enjoyable with the Comic Book Guy voice in my head.

      Heh. You mean you don't read all posts on /. as if they're by the Comic Book Guy, like I do? You'd be amazed at how rarely the voice is not appropriate!

      Now if you'll excuse me, I have to change the mylar bags on my "X-Men" collection

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    47. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by flosofl · · Score: 1

      No, I think AI was Aldiss.

      And you forgot two:

      *Imposter based on the story Imposter (I love one of the user comments in IMDB "Phillip K. Dick would've loved this movie" - duh!)
      *Screamers based on the story Second Variety

      When you look at it, a LOT of Philip K. Dick stories have been adapted to movies (usually losing the tone or even the plot of the original)

      --
      "This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" - Vyvyan "The Young Ones"
    48. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Spencerian · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      Yes, there is. Guilty as charged.

      --
      Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
    49. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know its kind of funny that you seem to have a problem with him being able to stop the sentinels but yet have no problem with him being able to connect to the matrix without jacking in.

      What is so different from those 2 abilities? When you think about it both require that he have the ability to remotely connect with the machines.

      I understand you didn't like the story line but a lot of it was good and a lot of it was well explained. You can't really ask for a better explanation. In fact many heroes in Sci-Fi find they have powers only when they are needed. How else would Neo find out about these powers? Unless a situation came up when he needed to stop sentinels it would be impossible for him to figure it out.

      Another example, how did he know he could jump into Smith? That just happened. No explanation, no nothing. But you believed because he was the one. You understood it was part of his abilities of realizing that he was the one. So what is the difference with him realizing he could stop sentinels? Is it cause he didn't die and come back to life before he figured it out? There is a lot that you have to just believe. You seemed to just believe in the first movie.

    50. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by FoXDie · · Score: 1

      A simple google search for "Sophia Stewart" turns up no reputable sources. A bunch of Black man against the White man sites, yes, but no reputable news sources. I'm calling BS on this whole thing.

    51. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I was waiting for what i thought would be the great twist-That there wasn't anyone outside the matrix at all.That neo and the rest of zion were merely in a sub program designed to deal with problem elements and that to save zion neo would have to figure this out and keep the machine from "formatting" zion when they became more trouble than they were worth due to their meddling around in the main program. I even thought that was what they were trying to set up when neo killed the setinals in the "real" world.Too bad they were just getting a lame ending ready.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    52. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cannot do it on it's own
      making it's internal symbology

      "its".

      it was obvious they had read a lot of books, it wasn't obvious that they had learned anything from them

      "books; it".

    53. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Post using the misnamed "Plain Old Text" option. It preserves line breaks, and you can still use HTML.

    54. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Deliri...uhmmm · · Score: 1

      The story of the original Matrix was nothing new to most fans of sci-fi, as the concept of the Matrix goes back to the nightmare fiction of Harlan Ellison, The problem is that your average "sci-fi" fan these days doesn't read at all. They watch movies, play video games and bitch at each other on message boards. The only books they ever read are novelizations of movies and horrible Star Trek books. The only thing they know about Ellison is that he wrote "The City on the Edge of Forever" episode of Star Trek. So the philosophy of The Matrix came as a surprise to them. The first Matrix wasn't bad, but it could have been a lot better if Keanu hadn't been handed lines like "What's an EMP?" to explain to the members of the audience what it is. I mean, come on, any "hacker god" like Neo was supposed to be would know what an EMP was. A real hacker god could have built one in his basement.

    55. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by hilaryduff · · Score: 1

      why go to the time and trouble of adding some more bytes to your hosts file? just dont go there again!

    56. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Milikki · · Score: 1

      'cause years of working around chemicals has done some permanent damage to both short and long term memory. Chances are good in a week I wont remember that site.

      But if something annoys me enough, I add it as a 127 to hosts, then when I click the link it fails and thats usually enough to remind me that it was a site I didnt want to go to.

      I do the same thing with "flash only" sites. First I send an email to the webmaster telling them its a bad idea to alienate their customer base that only has dialup, then I block it out.

      Kevin

    57. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      No, I think your idea is a lame ending. Zion doesn't have to be a literal computer program in order for it to be a system of control, I think it was subtle and made sense the way it was.

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
    58. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      Why could Neo kill Sentinels in real life?

      Watch Revolutions. He asks the Oracle, and the Oracle tells him that essentially Neo has root access to the machine mainframe thanks to his encounter with the Architect.

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
    59. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      He doesn't. Smith was a rogue agent created by the Oracle in order to force this very situation. And the Oracle doesn't always "foresee" the future, she just manipulates others by claiming that she can.

      (In Revolutions, Smith addresses the Oracle as "mom" when she calls him a bastard, and the Architect tells the Oracle that she plays a "dangerous game".)

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
    60. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      Yes, obviously being able to write code and bring down remote servers requires a complete knowledge of physics, especially EM phenomenon.

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
    61. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Moofie · · Score: 1

      I heard what the Oracle said, and it was mystical gibberish. I know that this isn't hard sci fi, but I needed more to not kill my supension of disbelief.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    62. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by Moiche · · Score: 1
      That's a fascinating interpretation. Only problem I see with it is that it doesn't explain how the Oracle created Agent Smith, when the series pretty strongly indicates that the "rogue" agent was a consquence of Neo's absorption of Smith in the first movie.

      An alternative interpretation: Smith addressed the oracle as mom for reasons that the Architect made clear in the second movie -- that if he is the Matrix's father, than she is its mother. He created the technical framework, whereas she donated some human element that allowed it convincingly enrapture humanity, after the failure of the original Matrix. The "dangerous game" comment could have referred either to the Oracle's willingness to allow herself to be absorbed by Agent Smith, or to her manipulation and aid of Neo and the exiles in the first place.

      When you said "he does'nt", what did you mean? --Moiche

    63. Re:Yep, that is the slashdot folks!!! by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      Only problem I see with it is that it doesn't explain how the Oracle created Agent Smith, when the series pretty strongly indicates that the "rogue" agent was a consquence of Neo's absorption of Smith in the first movie.

      Yeah, but before that happened, Neo ate one of the Oracle's cookies, and Matrix food can contain code.

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
  2. first negative review I've seen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think this is one of the few times I've seen a negative review on slashdot.

    Maybe not.

  3. Hmmm. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Funny

    If you want to get pissed off about something, buy it. Otherwise don't.

    Is it published by Microsoft?

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    1. Re:Hmmm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking of Microsoft and its imitators, why not
      take a look at what sort of mischief they've
      been up to lately?

      http://malfeasance.50megs.com/

    2. Re:Hmmm. by Prothonotar · · Score: 1

      Well... it is a book review... aren't people supposed to offer their opinions in a book review?

      --
      "Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
    3. Re:Hmmm. by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1

      Is it published by Microsoft?

      No, wait... the case is different. A Microsoft product WILL be pissing you off REGARDLESS of whether you bought it or not.

    4. Re:Hmmm. by rbarreira · · Score: 1

      Geez, some really creepy stuff there. Kinda opens our eyes to the real world that we have:

      - Companies bribing politicians in order not to pay taxes (hurts everyone, obviously)
      - lots of companies gaining advantage of Iraq's war by rebuilding the country

      And much more. Sad!!

      --

      The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
  4. YAAAAWNNNNNNNNNN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know it's Friday but cmon, this is the keynote speaker at the Boring Expo.

  5. Reccomendation? Or no... by dancpsu · · Score: 1

    If you love to argue and curse when you read something that's so way off base in interpretation or appears to lack any research in even the basic meanings that most Americans found in a SF film, then this is your book.

    Not exactly a stellar promotion for the book. I think this thread may be more informative.

    --
    "Scientists don't change their minds, they just die." -- Max Planck
  6. Fact Checking by drewzhrodague · · Score: 2, Funny

    Note to self. Check facts before submitting anything I write. Gotcha.

    --
    Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
    1. Re:Fact Checking by StinkiePhish · · Score: 1

      Writer for the New York Times: Note to self. Check facts before submitting anything I write. Gotcha.

  7. Contradiction by someguy456 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ok, so what you're trying to say is that somehow, there exists a hypothetical slashdotter who in addition to being geeky and liking geeky movies, has enough time/motivation to read geeky books about aforementioned movies, yet was somehow able to gain a significant other?

    Blasphemy!

    1. Re:Contradiction by winkydink · · Score: 2, Funny

      The author only mentions his mother in the review.

      --

      "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    2. Re:Contradiction by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Me.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Contradiction by Spencerian · · Score: 1

      The cool part is that my girlfriend (yep! I do have one!) bears a really uncanny resemblance to Carrie-Anne Moss.

      I have time to read SF, I have loads of computers to play with, a cool mom, AND a hot fangirl girlfriend. I am living a fucking dream, man. :)

      --
      Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
  8. Sounds like Slashdot by orionware · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    'If you love to argue and curse when you read something that's so way off base in interpretation or appears to lack any research in even the basic meanings..."

    I can get that right here from the lefties that hang out at Slashdot!

    --


    Karma means nothing to me, so suck it...
    1. Re:Sounds like Slashdot by Valiss · · Score: 1

      Wait, is that to imply that 'righties' hang out here too?

      --

      -Valiss
    2. Re:Sounds like Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only when the nurse lets them use the computer.

    3. Re:Sounds like Slashdot by dreamchaser · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes. All three of us meet for coffee every Tuesday.

    4. Re:Sounds like Slashdot by PriceIke · · Score: 1

      Best response I've read all day. You, my friend, just made my "friends" list.

      Mind if I join you for coffee?

      --
      It's not a lie. It's the truth with lossy compression.
    5. Re:Sounds like Slashdot by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      Heh...anytime.

    6. Re:Sounds like Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Four. No wonder you guys aren't showing up, the ad on fox news said Thursdays!

    7. Re:Sounds like Slashdot by JonKatzIsAnIdiot · · Score: 1

      Tuesday?!?!? You told me Wednesday!

    8. Re:Sounds like Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did it just get gay in here?

  9. Realistically... by Otter · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Has there ever been a "Profound Lessons From Popular Movie / TV Show Book Series" that hasn't been completely stupid? The Tao of Pooh is probably the best of the lot, which isn't saying much.

    When authors need to appropriate someone else's creation instead of coming up with their own, you can't expect much.

    1. Re:Realistically... by Reducer2001 · · Score: 1
      I've only read The Matrix book in this series, but it was really good. I had to read it for a philosophy class.

      Philosophy of the Matrix

      The D'oh of Homer

      Seinfeld and Philosophy

      --
      When you get to hell -- tell 'em Itchy sent ya!
    2. Re:Realistically... by Spencerian · · Score: 1

      There are other great books on Matrix philosophy that you can inbibe, too. Start with

      "Like a Splinter in Your Mind"

      available from Amazon. There is a successor book to the first link you note, which I also highly recommend.

      --
      Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
    3. Re:Realistically... by FidelCatsro · · Score: 1

      As someone who would consider himself a bit in the know about Tao . Having studied it for around 13 years ,I can honestly say that "The Tao of Pooh" is actually a rather good light introduction to The Tao for younger readers.
      I totally agree with your comparison though

      --
      The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    4. Re:Realistically... by ky11x · · Score: 1

      And realistically, you don't understand how creation works. By this measure, Shakespeare should not be read, since he couldn't come up with an original plot.

      There is no one who comes up with anything truly original. What is great is how the creator riffs upon existing material. That is how culture is created.

    5. Re:Realistically... by Otter · · Score: 1
      Heh, I knew someone was going to bring up Shakespeare...

      There's a rather large difference between drawing on someone else's ideas and simply trading on the recognition of their works and characters. Shakespeare wrote The Two Gentleman of Verona, not Management Secrets From The Seven Books of the Diana.

  10. umm... by pdo400 · · Score: 1

    Is this story some kind of weird dig at the kind of people who get their 'philosophy' from The Matrix? Or are you actually being serious. I can't tell if I'm supposed to be laughing or crying right now...

    --
    --
  11. Trans atlantic by EvilMagnus · · Score: 4, Funny

    Maybe this is a British thing.

    No - this book just confirms what some people suspected for many years : that bad writers are not the exclusive domain of the United States.

    --
    -EvilMagnus
    1. Re:Trans atlantic by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      Then the terrorists have already won! We cannot allow a mineshaft^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H bad writer gap!

  12. Philip C. Dick? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Never 'eard of 'im, guv.

    I have just finished reading 'The World Jones Made' by Philip K. Dick, if he's any relation?

    1. Re:Philip C. Dick? by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Funny
      > Never 'eard of 'im, guv.
      >
      >I have just finished reading 'The World Jones Made' by Philip K. Dick, if he's any relation?

      "No, we don't have Philip C. Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Elektrik Sh33p" with two "K"s and l33t-speak "3"s! Why doesn't the author try W. H. Smith's?"

      "He did, the article submitter sent him here!"

    2. Re:Philip C. Dick? by Drey · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry that I have no mod points to give. Thank you for giving me a much needed laugh this afternoon.

    3. Re:Philip C. Dick? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Well done.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:Philip C. Dick? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No relation, but you surely should have heard of him? He was a big name in sci-fi around the same time Arthur K. Clarke was.

  13. Sage advice from the reviewer by Tank · · Score: 1

    Oh, and dump your boy/girlfriend, too.

    And where exactly are we supposed to get one of those?

    +5 Funny.

    1. Re:Sage advice from the reviewer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can see the possibility of finding a boyfriend here (if you're into that kind of thing *wink*), but God knows where one of us can get a girlfriend.

    2. Re:Sage advice from the reviewer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been thinking about dumping my boy/girl friend anyway, since he/she can't make up his/her mind about which he/she is... although he/she does have twice the chances most of us have at scoring at the singles bar.

    3. Re:Sage advice from the reviewer by genix · · Score: 1

      from the dumpster? go dive

  14. Have fun by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

    SF films must be taken with a heavy grain of salt.

    Don't try to interpret them, unless of course there is a major character in a trio of epic films who is supposed to be the "chosen one" and is chock full of consciousness lifting life forms, but he acts like one of your kid brothers crack/meth smokin sk8ter buddies whose 14 yr. old girlfriend just told him she has to break up because he won't use a condom.

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    1. Re:Have fun by Yath · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You do that. I'll continue to spend more time on movies that are good. You know, the ones that provide insight into the sort of internal struggles that humans face daily. Such as whether to be selfish, or to take a risk for the greater good (Han Solo, before Lucas decided that personal growth was too difficult for general audiences to comprenehd). Or whether to help people you love, when doing so may sacrifice the greater good (Luke). Try to find similar lessons in Star Wars episodes I, II, III, or VI and you'll be disappointed.

      Your suggestion is ok if modified: "Some
      Effects-laden and mindless SF films may still be enjoyed if taken with a heavy grain of salt." By applying this principle, I was able to enjoy all of the Star Wars and Matrix films. But three of those movies are profoundly better than the rest and should not be discounted because of the shallow ones.

      --
      I always mod up spelling trolls.
  15. The Matrix universe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I find the Matrix universe to be an arbitrary collection of rules that serve as a framework for beautifully-realized gunfights, virtual fruit cart tipping and last-minute escapes. I just don't find it deep or awe inspiring. Once the ridiculous Rube Goldberg secret was revealed, it lost it for me. More of the trend of action films masquerading as sci-fi. I don't mean this as a flame, but I just can't understand why The Matrix is so influential, but I not am not a huge fan of the graphic novel, so I guess I'm not the target audience.

    1. Re:The Matrix universe by anagama · · Score: 1

      Matrix ... More of the trend of action films masquerading as sci-fi.

      Mr. AC -- quite likely one of the best observations to be made in this thread.
      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    2. Re:The Matrix universe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even the thought of interpreting movies seems a complete waste of time to me. Shit, what film these days isn't "an arbitrary collection of rules that serve as a framework for ..."? You don't go into movies to watch something "deep or awe inspiring", that's what frigging books are for! Movies are mindless dribble that seek to arouse the base passions of mankind, an appeal purely to the pathos. Movies are a modern Colosseum of sorts, where the ignorant masses can be entertained. What do they say about movies? They make us laugh, cry, etc; but nobody ever mentions thinking. Any "meaning" in a movie today is most likely purely by accident.

    3. Re:The Matrix universe by geekoid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sci-fi is a setting.
      Alien wsa a horror flick, in a sci-fi setting.
      Aliens was a action flick, in a sci-fi setting.
      Terminator was a horror film. in a sci-fi setting.

      Give Mel Gidson a flying car instead of a truck in Lethal weapon, and you would have a buddy cop movie, in a sci-fi setting.

      I would like to hear of 1 sci-fi movie that tells a story that couldnt be told in a different setting?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:The Matrix universe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Not sure I agree. The first movie introduced the concept that what we percieve as reality might be a simulation to many, many people - I had philosophical discussions with people who would normally run screaming from any kind of deep concept like that. And I think that questioning reality is one of the central themes of real science fiction. So whilst The Matrix was utterly tame stuff to us PKD-readers it certainly raised Hollywood's game hugely as far as real sci-fi goes. Certainly more than any other film on the list - the only other one on there that actually has any sci-fi content is Strange Days.

      The last two were almost entirely free of real sci-fi, though I actually still enjoyed all three at the brainless fun level.

      DISCLAIMER: DEFINITIONS OF SCIENCE FICTION VARY FROM PERSON TO PERSON

    5. Re:The Matrix universe by drxray · · Score: 1

      Cronenburg's The Fly - it's about meddling with forces you don't understand. It could only work as science fiction or with magic (sufficently advanced technology = magic...).

      There's more to science fiction than robots and spaceships, but most films are very shallow. However, that makes the argument into one about definitions, i.e. pointless.

      --
      Slashdot - Mutual Assured Discussion
    6. Re:The Matrix universe by coopaq · · Score: 0
      I don't mean this as a flame, but I just can't understand why The Matrix is so influential, but I not am not a huge fan of the graphic novel, so I guess I'm not the target audience.

      Not is that not a not sentence, but not?

    7. Re:The Matrix universe by Babbster · · Score: 3, Interesting
      It sounds like you're doing some contorting here, particularly in terms of defining "setting." While Terminator is indeed occupied with a robot chasing people around and killing, or trying to kill, them (like Jason in a Friday the 13th flick), it is still a sci-fi movie. Think about how much it loses if it drops the time-travel element and Sarah Conner isn't destined to give birth to the future leader of the human resistance. This movie is particularly damaging to your point in that the movie is "set" in "the present" (at least it was in 1984).

      Now, if you view movies as simply a collection of scenes then, sure, Alien could be set on earth and the Alien could be a vampire or just a very big guy with a knife. However, taken as a whole, Terminator doesn't work without time travel (firmly entrenching it in science fiction) and Alien doesn't work without a manned spaceship visiting another planet. Science fiction is very much its own genre of movie, just as much as action, comedy or horror. That one can make a science fiction movie with action, comedy or horror in it doesn't detract from that in the least.

    8. Re:The Matrix universe by drsquare · · Score: 1

      It's influential because it's interesting and enjoyable to watch. If you want something 'deep' and 'awe-inspiring', then go and read one of those awful bone-dry sci-fi books written by authors who can't really write, but their books are gobbled up by geeks because they have space-ships and time-travel in them.

      Sci-fi films are more than about science, they're films as well. The Matrix worked incredibly well as a film. It had a decent pace, good editing, great soundtrack, a couple of decent actors (Fishborn and Weaving), an interested concept and all sorts of cool scenes. Perhaps you've not understood that cinema is a visual medium. The whole point in having it on film rather than on the radio or in a book is that it looks good, it's pleasing to the eye. It's entertaining. The lobby scene might not have any science-fiction value, nor any philosophical significance, but it was a fucking cool thing to watch, which is the whole fucking point.

      Perhaps you're one of those emotionless, quasi-autistic geeks who see everything in terms of numbers and logic, unable to appreciate anything for its artistic value.

    9. Re:The Matrix universe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Defining Science Fiction, are we? I seem to remember Heinlein discussing this somewhere. Science Fiction is when you take some advancement of science or technology and explore one or more of the implications that come out of it.

      Hopefully they also tell a good story, and can be plotted as horror, or murder mystery, or whatever.

      Or you can expand it to Speculative Fiction and include Lord of the Rings, and a lot of other stuff set in fantasy worlds.

    10. Re:The Matrix universe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Contact?

      2001: A Space Odyssey?

      Oh, sorry, you just asked for 1 :)

    11. Re:The Matrix universe by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      Bladerunner.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    12. Re:The Matrix universe by netsphinx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You have a point.

      The point is all the more interesting in light of the quite deep sci-fi content of the original stories I've read:

      Alien was loosely based on one of the four short stories comprising the novel "The Voyage of the Space Beagle" by A. E. van Vogt. The main point of the novel wasn't a crew's rather helpless fight for survival against a nearly invulnerable enemy; it was the struggle for acceptance by specialists by an "holistic scientist," and it falls somewhere between the gritty-utopian and future-optimism schools of pulp-era classics. (I say "utopian" here because of the social-science aspect in the hero's profession; cf. the "encyclopedic synthesist" in Heinlein. I might add that I have always wanted to be an ES when I grew up.) The movie drops the scientists and top-of-the-line flight crew of the Beagle, and replaces them with the technically skilled, mining-competent, but not-quite-Ph.D.-toting crew of the Nostromo. Holistic science never gets a look-in.

      Aliens, while keeping the acid-blooded creature from Vogt, is a frank (and honest) borrowing of Starship Troopers tech and esprit de corps. I'll skip the analysis, since I expect more Slashdotters have read the book than have bathed today, and simply note that, again, only a tiny aspect of the novel makes it to the screen. These "space marines" are troopers, but they're no citizen soldiers. (Funny, the troopers here don't bother me nearly as much as the troopers in the actual movie "Starship Troopers." Eh.)

      I don't know of my own reading whether The Terminator is based on a specific prior work or not; I've seen other posts here today which attribute it to Philip K. Dick, and that seems about right.

      It strikes me that the utopian aspects of the first two sources are completely stripped from the movies, while dystopian aspects (PKD influences?) are added. Does the philosophic core of hard sci-fi -always- burn up (to be replaced, if at all, with dime-store Zen) on entry to Los Angeles? *

    13. Re:The Matrix universe by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "Terminator was a horror film. in a sci-fi setting."

      I'm kind of curious how you'd re-tell Terminator or Short Circuit in a non sci-fi setting.

      I don't really mean this as a bitterly sarcastic jab, I am genuinely curious.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    14. Re:The Matrix universe by Gulthek · · Score: 1

      How was Terminator in a scifi setting? Or is the present day so science-fictiony to you? Bit of a stretch, eh?

      Where do you place Gattaca?

    15. Re:The Matrix universe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and the Alien could be a vampire or just a very big guy with a knife.

      Except that big guys with knives usually don't burst from your chest.

    16. Re:The Matrix universe by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      Gattaca was a story about race and prejudice, in a scifi setting. The Terminator is a bit tricker to characterize in such terms since time travel is a major plot point. But then again, the essential theme is that of an unstoppable killer, a hero who just might stop him, and a damsel in distress. There's no need to use robots or time travel to frame such a story.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
  16. Nitipicks . . . by npsimons · · Score: 4, Funny
    Great, scathing review, which will justify all of us not buying this book. However, when one reads a review nitpicking all the details the author got wrong, then says . . .

    The writer name-drops Philip C. Dick

    (emphasis mine)


    . . . you have to wonder if all the mistakes he was complaining about were due to his own innattention to detail. Pot calling the kettle black, and all that.

    1. Re:Nitipicks . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe I'm wrong or not as enlightened while scanning this book (which is, unfortunately, the best I could do while trying to read it before I began stammering uncontrollably to myself moments later about some bad interpretation).

      Seems logical... why stammer uncontrollably to yourself when you can stammer uncontrollably on Slashdot?

      All errors in the review aside, how much can we trust a review from a reviewer who admits he didn't RTFB before posting? :)

      At least he admits it, which seems very honest, forthright and generally un-Slashdotlike.

      -1, Honest.

  17. Who is Roz Kaveney? by JChung2006 · · Score: 1

    And, more importantly, why should I care?

  18. Fanboys? by rsadelle · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm a fangirl, you insensitive clod!

    1. Re:Fanboys? by rbarreira · · Score: 1, Funny

      Good thing that you don't have your email address displayed... You wouldn't want dozens of overweight geeks hitting on you constantly for the next few days :)

      --

      The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
    2. Re:Fanboys? by dedeman · · Score: 1

      Do you happen to be part of a beowulf cluster?

    3. Re:Fanboys? by rsadelle · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't do them much good anyway--I'm a lesbian.

    4. Re:Fanboys? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shouldn't that be 'fangrrl' then?

    5. Re:Fanboys? by lotsotech · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah...that's not really a deterrent.

    6. Re:Fanboys? by amanuensis · · Score: 1

      If anything, it'll get even more of them.

      --
      I'm an intern... hense the name....
    7. Re:Fanboys? by Thomas+A.+Anderson · · Score: 2, Funny

      You're just *trying* to drive us mad, aren't you? :)

      Mmmmm, Geek lesbians.....

      --
      Personally its not God I dislike, its his fan club I cant stand (bash.org)
    8. Re:Fanboys? by radish · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't want dozens of overweight geeks hitting on you constantly for the next few days :)

      Who said being an overweight geek was limited to the male of the species? Obviously someone who's never been to GenCon!

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    9. Re:Fanboys? by rbarreira · · Score: 1

      I didn't limit it to males, or did I?

      --

      The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
  19. A Mature Review? by ndansmith · · Score: 1
    The book as a whole, particularly with its monotonous small text and a complete lack of the simplest illustrations or even eye-catching chapter header graphics, feels like a dry collegiate dissertation written by someone who could give a damn about the subject matter and just needs a passing grade.

    Don't judge a book by its cover. Or in this case, dont' judge a book by the layout/appearance of its contents. This hardly useful in a book review. When I read, I like to read the author's words; I do not care about the formatting and silly illustrations added by the editor and publisher.

    1. Re:A Mature Review? by parmadil · · Score: 1

      Presentation counts. No, I'm not saying books should be judged by how flashy their illustrations are, or how highbrow the font choice is. But a well designed, well-laid-out book can be a pleasure for the eyes as much as the words are for the mind. A good design complements the text, in some cases even subtly contributes to the "feel" or tone of the book.

      I have not read the reviewed book, so I can't say "the reviewer is right to criticize this" or "the reviewer is splitting hairs", but I think he is quite justified in bringing the book's design/layout into his review. You may not care, but I certainly would want to know if the book I'm considering buying is drab or ugly or if it is a beautiful object as well as a good read.

    2. Re:A Mature Review? by tverbeek · · Score: 1
      Don't judge a book by its cover. Or in this case, dont' judge a book by the layout/appearance of its contents. This hardly useful in a book review. When I read, I like to read the author's words; I do not care about the formatting and silly illustrations added by the editor and publisher.

      If all you care about are the author's words, and not how they're presented, get the book-on-tape version. Read by Stephen Hawking.

      Casting, cinematography, costuming, delivery of lines, etc. all matter in a movie... not just the script. Page layout, anatomy, and backgrounds matter in a graphic novel... not just the word balloons. And typesetting, package design, etc. matter in a book... not just the ms. It may not be the most important factor, but it's certainly a valid point.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    3. Re:A Mature Review? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
      Don't judge a book by its cover. Or in this case, dont' judge a book by the layout/appearance of its contents. This hardly useful in a book review.

      You're wasting your breath. The day I decided humanity was a lost cause in this regard was the day I read a book review on Amazon that basically said:
      "This book wasn't long enough. For what I paid, I expected more pages. - 1 star"

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  20. Is this a review? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or the reviewer trying to prove they know more than the author (who is *gasp* a GIRL!). What next, is he going to push her down on the blacktop to prove his affection for her? Reading further his analysis of the same movies is no more informed than the author's (though he definitely seems to think they are)... although we'd never know. The author's opinions on Aliens are given no summary save the backhanded compliment the reviewer gives them. The haughty "Oh, and dump your boy/girlfriend, too" just makes me think he needs to get out more and talk to the opposite sex.

    1. Re:Is this a review? by snuf23 · · Score: 1

      "What next, is he going to push her down on the blacktop to prove his affection for her?"

      If the woman in question was Ayn Rand, that's exactly what she'd enjoy.

      --
      Sometimes my arms bend back.
  21. I'm confused here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The reviewer mentions the LOTR trilogy and then following question appears further down:

    Small Soldiers? That was science-fiction?

    Good question. But LOTR wasn't. It was all fantasy, so why act surprised that it wasn't mentioned in the book. Because Small Soldiers was?

  22. Note to the reviewer by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Science-fiction fans make a slight distinction between the terms "SF" and "Sci-fi" which you don't seem to be aware of.

    - Sci-fi is easy-to-get-into science fiction, like Star Trek, Matrix and I, robot. In short, sci-fi is more like a regular story, or show, set in some futuristic universe

    - SF is hard-core, or "serious" science fiction. That includes, for example, books from Iain M. Banks, and movies like 2001: A Space Odyssey. SF works are usually space operas, well researched on the (possible) technical plan, and can plunge the reader/viewer right down the weird and absolutely alien, which not all may like.

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:Note to the reviewer by onkelonkel · · Score: 1

      No, we don't!

      It sounds like one of those trekkie vs trekker things that only someone even yet more lame than I would care about.

      --
      None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
    2. Re:Note to the reviewer by RedWizzard · · Score: 1

      The reviewer thought that leaving out discussion on the Lord of the Rings trilogy was "a tragic omission" and questioned if Small Soldiers was science fiction at all so it's pretty clear that he doesn't use any standard definition of what "science fiction" is. I think perhaps he equates science fiction with geek chic.

    3. Re:Note to the reviewer by swoogan · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the distinction is a little bit more specific than that.


      Sci-fi is as you say. A regular story set in the future or focusing on technology (i.e.: Star Trek--although, not all episodes)


      Science Fiction (SF) specifically refers to any fiction that put humans in a futuristic environment to illuminate and reflect on the human condition, culture and society. The classic example is showing tension between alien species that is derived essentially from their physical differences to demonstrate the ignorance inherent in racism found in our own society. Technology might be used to enable the story telling, but isn't the focus.


      A good comparison is Star Trek vs Firefly.

      --

      Swoogan
      sigs are for losers...and ppl who can think of one.

    4. Re:Note to the reviewer by dasunt · · Score: 1
      - SF is hard-core, or "serious" science fiction. That includes, for example, books from Iain M. Banks, and movies like 2001: A Space Odyssey. SF works are usually space operas, well researched on the (possible) technical plan, and can plunge the reader/viewer right down the weird and absolutely alien, which not all may like.

      Er, SF (or what most people term as "hard SF") works are usually space operas?

      There are many definitions of "Space Opera", but Wikipedia's definition is probably close enough for most people: "Space opera is a subgenre of speculative fiction or science fiction that emphasizes romantic adventure, interstellar travel, and space battles where the main storyline is centred around interstellar conflict and character drama."

      From further reading of the wikipedia article, there seems to be a "New Space Opera" genre that is hard SF. For an old Science Fiction geek like myself, when I think of space operas, I tend to think of Star Wars. Most of the old space operas aren't usually considered hard SF, and I wouldn't consider some of the newer space operas to be hard SF as well (for example, Bujold's works).

    5. Re:Note to the reviewer by drsquare · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid that SF and sci-fi are just abbreviations for the same thing. The term 'sci fi' was invented because it's more convenient than saying science fiction, it's not a new term altogether. You may as well argue the difference between 'hacker' and 'cracker'.

    6. Re:Note to the reviewer by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      Science-fiction fans make a slight distinction between the terms "SF" and "Sci-fi" which you don't seem to be aware of.
      Science-fiction fans make that distinction, science-fiction fanboys don't. The latter (who seem to make up the bulk of modern fans) are mostly unware of any science fiction that a) hasn't been made into a movie or b) was published before the cyperpunk revolution. I.E. the vast bulk of the classics of the genre. They are astonished to learn the SF predates Star Trek (TOS) let alone William Gibson, and the the bulk of the genre never was on a best seller list, let alone on the screen (small or silver). They've read the stuff pushed on them by Barnes & Nobel, but they've never really read science fiction.
    7. Re:Note to the reviewer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With apologies - bullshit.

      I'm aware that some "fans" love to make a distinction, but it's sad and embarrassing.

      I grew up on science fiction, reading all the classics and the new genres that were emerging (Cyberpunk etc. from Sterling onwards). I also read fantasy.

      I have never seen a need to call some things SF, and some Sci-fi. I DON'T pronounce Sci-fi as "skiffy". Sci-fi and SF are functionally equivalent. Anyone who feels a need to distinguish between them, in some misguided attempt at elitism because their chosen form of entertainment is becoming mainstream, is a sad and pitiful bastard that I would prefer not to know.

      It's as bad as the losers who only enjoy a band when nobody else knows who they are. They get so wrapped up in being part of a small "put-upon" set that they forget that the point of entertainment is to be entertained and enriched. Not to score points with other obsessives in some lit. style dick waving match.

    8. Re:Note to the reviewer by Spencerian · · Score: 1

      You say tomato, I say thermonuclear. And don't get too prissy about the term. I have likely been reading SF since you were a sperm cell.

      SF = science fiction = Sci-Fi. I just hate the "sci-fi" term. Doesn't make it any less a word. It still grates me to hear the "Sci-Fi" in the "Sci-Fi Channel." Demeaning. But then, so's the USA Network.

      There is bad SF, fake SF, and great SF. There's also fantasy, which LotR is, but not being SF doesn't make it any less fiction. Fantasy's just highly improbable, while SF is more probable.

      No need to be snobby, except for what you like (which we all are). The Matrix is average in SF quotient (doesn't explain the tech), like Star Wars. High in action. I agree that 2001 is a good example of high quality SF. Still, based on your thoughts, there's not a lot of good true SF films...probably because it's boring to hear someone explain how they transport or why their gun works in a film. The best SF will likely be the written kind since it can say so much more. I'm fond of "Snow Crash" as a good example of SF (cyberpunk) stuff. For my fondness of the Matrix stuff, I can't see it as a book (though some comics that are out are doable).

      --
      Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
    9. Re:Note to the reviewer by rk · · Score: 1

      Oh, shit. You did not open this door.

      Wait, it's slashdot. Of course you did. While we're at it, let's discuss vi vs. emacs, abortion, gun control, and Windows vs. Mac, too.

    10. Re:Note to the reviewer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just a note. There is a difference between the terms 'hacker' and 'cracker'. A 'hacker' is one who has the skills to break into a computer system, but does so legally, such as penetration testing. A 'cracker' is a 'hacker' who uses his skills maliciously and illegally.

  23. Don't forget about Sophia Stewart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.daghettotymz.com/matrix/matrix.html

    I don't know why, but that link just popped into my head for some reason..

  24. name dropping joseph k by faderanger · · Score: 1

    Philip C. Dick?

  25. dump by sewagemaster · · Score: 2, Funny

    Oh, and dump your boy/girlfriend, too

    um, why would anyone want to cut off their own hands?

  26. Quick Correction by ndansmith · · Score: 4, Informative
    Neo's pod-name, "Thomas" is a Gnostic Christianity reference to that apostle's doubt of the resurrection of Christ.

    It is fair to say that Thomas is a reference that can be understood as generically Christian, not just "gnostic," since the account of Doubting Thomas is in the orthodox canon. The author is probably asymilating the apostle Thomas with the author of the pseudopigraphal "Gospel of Thomas," which was a gnostic document.

    1. Re:Quick Correction by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 1

      It is fair to say that Thomas is a reference that can be understood as generically Christian, not just "gnostic," since the account of Doubting Thomas is in the orthodox canon. The author is probably asymilating the apostle Thomas with the author of the pseudopigraphal "Gospel of Thomas," which was a gnostic document.

      Man, posting that on /. takes balls. And it's one of the truly informative and interesting comments I've seen here for a long time. thanks.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:Quick Correction by Yath · · Score: 1
      Man, posting that on /. takes balls.

      Can you explain why? It looks like a pretty straightforward criticism to me.

      --
      I always mod up spelling trolls.
    3. Re:Quick Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No no, it's not criticising that took him balls, it's posting a comment with that many complex words and interesting concepts to people whose epitome of witticism usually consists in posting references to the Simpsons and South Park :-)

    4. Re:Quick Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, though there are certainly Gnostic elements in the Matrix (the Architect being wrong about his - the Architect's - place in the Matrix, and a female "god" hiding inside the creation trying to fix things are certainly gnostic), the name "Thomas" is obvious enough without reference to Gnosticism.

    5. Re:Quick Correction by porcupine8 · · Score: 1

      I thought it was the "admitting you have a passing knowledge of Christianity rather than just posting flames about how stupid people are for believing in invisible men in the sky" part.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    6. Re:Quick Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure I read a book recently that theorized that the stories of "Doubting Thomas" that got into the Gospel of John were a reaction to a Thomasine sect that used the Gospel of Thomas as scripture.

      The whole history of the early church is likely more complex than we know.

      We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

    7. Re:Quick Correction by ndansmith · · Score: 1

      I would be interested to know which book that was. If you can remember, post it here. Thanks.

    8. Re:Quick Correction by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      Anyone has studied canonicity enough to use the term "pseudopigraphal" gets a highfive.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    9. Re:Quick Correction by chromatic · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but minus a style point for misspelling it. (A false pig?)

    10. Re:Quick Correction by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      Yeah, there is that.

      I guess if you break it down into the basic parts "pseud" and "epigraph" it makes it a bit easier to remember the proper spelling. However, it does make you wonder how they arrived at the pronunciation.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    11. Re:Quick Correction by tverbeek · · Score: 1

      For what it's worth, the Gospel of John was the last of the four canonical gospels written, and wasn't finished until ~100 years after the events it describes. Plenty of time for the theopolitics of the 1st Century to influence its composition. (Much as that obviously influenced the Epistles, which were largely attempts by their authors to "correct" theological unorthodoxies and heresies that were appearing among the various Christian sects.)

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  27. Anakin vs Nazgul by PintoPiman · · Score: 1
    While this might be an interesting comparison, it serves more to demonstrate the weakness of Lucas as a writer than the strength of his creation.

    Faromir and Baromir's temptations (apt analogues to the historical fall of the Nazgul kings) are the possibility of using the Ring to save his kingdom; Anakin's is the possibility of using the dark side of the force to save his wife.

    Both treat the seductive temptation of evil. MHO: Lucas thrashes about for a whole movie in a failed attempt to present what Tolkien elegantly manages in two chapters of his epic.

    1. Re:Anakin vs Nazgul by elhaf · · Score: 1

      Yes, and Lucas got it wrong after all. It doesn't fit his universe nearly as well as the "seduced by the dark side in order to learn more about how to destroy it" plotline that he should have used. Much more epic and elegant in the SW universe/character set. The idea that someone as well-trained as a Jedi, somewhat paralleling martial artist monks, would "turn evil" simply for selfish reasons is absurd. Trying to save your country is one thing (Boromir), sacrificing your country to save your wife is a whole other.

      --
      Six score characters.
      Brevity being wit's soul
      I have enough space.
    2. Re:Anakin vs Nazgul by Blacken00100 · · Score: 1

      OK, call me thick if you must, but I didn't consider Tolkien's presentation of the same thing all that good. Hell, it took me two or three tries to read through it and understand it.

      But I was twelve at the time.

  28. The Matrix by ndansmith · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The author of this review seems to hold a great opinion of the Matrix Trilogy's "deeper" meaning. I have always been inclined to have a negative opinion. When the first film came out, people were raving about it integrated so many themes and references and what-not. Christianity, Buddhism, etc. They were all in there. I perceived that it was a rather sloppy hodge-podge rather than a graceful synthesis. No doubt many /.ers will disagree with me on this point.

    I think that so many people thought that the Matrix was a literary masterwork because not many people have read many actual literary masterworks.

    1. Re:The Matrix by FoXDie · · Score: 1

      I've read many literary masterworks. Most that don't even have to do with the future (gasp and awe :O). Partly because of this I find the Matrix trilogy and the universe absolutely beautiful. So many people expect a movie to give them answers, these movies present questions. It's an intricate kung fu, sci-fi Socratic method movie. Also, if you pay attention, though these movies mix in many various myths and legends and religions, the main allegory running throughout the story is a Gnostic allegory.

    2. Re:The Matrix by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't be an elitist prick.

      The thing that makes the Matrix better than 90% of movies is that two weeks after you've seen the movie, you're still discussing things with your buddies. That doesn't happen very often in Hollywood... in fact, it's rare now for me to remember anything about a movie even a couple days after I've seen it. (Of course, that might say more about my memory than anything...)

      Now I'm not saying that the Matrix were excellent movies, or that they're at the level of, say, 2001: A Space Odyssey or Citizen Kane, but compared to most popular films they were a work of genius. How many people were talking about Independence Day a week after they'd seen it? Or Hellboy? Or even Titanic?

      Yes, I'm sure you're a awesome supergenius who's read everything in the Classics section of Barnes and Noble as you sit in your parlour with your robe and pipe. But for us in the real world, what the Matrix did is a pretty good accomplishment.

    3. Re:The Matrix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing that makes the Matrix better than 90% of movies is that two weeks after you've seen the movie, you're still discussing things with your buddies.

      We Elitist Pricks just think that it's sad that it takes a movie with a lot of guns, chicks in skintight leather, and Keanu Fucking Reeves to make this happen.

    4. Re:The Matrix by Moiche · · Score: 1
      Anyone who thought that the Matrix was a literary masterwork must have been deeply confused. It was, however, a cinematic masterwork.

      Movies are pretty fundamentally different from books, especially in the way that they get profound. A profound book can delve as deeply and densely into a given subject as the author desires, since the reader -- if properly motivated -- can read, and re-read, and re-re-read, until they feel that they have some insight into the author's intent. Whereas with a movie, at least when seen in a theater (and most movies are crafted with the audience in mind being a theater audience, and not a DVD audience -- although this may change) the audience is given only one try to absorb the work that the screenwriter/director/cast has created, and absorb it through 3 times as many senses as you would a book (4 if you are in an especially fragrant theater). If you take a moment to think about what are generally considered, among many cinephiles, to be the finest works of film, you will see that they are not nearly as thematically complex or challenging as works of literature held in similar esteem. Fellini's 8 1/2, Kubrik's Clockwork Orange, Bergman's The Seventh Seal, from a thematical point of view all pale in contrast with Joyce's Ullyses, and Tolstoy's War and Peace.

      The Matrix was a great film, even from a critical perspective (as opposed to a visceral perspective) because it introduced new language in film's visual vocabulary, and because it did implicate interesting themes -- even if it wasn't as revelatory as some of the fanboys suggest, and even if it wasn't as profound as Nietzsche's "Thus Spoke Zarathustra". I think your standards may be a tinch high.

      Moiche

    5. Re:The Matrix by Spencerian · · Score: 1

      You are my hero. And you're absolutely right.

      The paradox is that, to be a big fan usually leaves you in a minority position where most people don't agree, but a few do. When everybody loves something or there's too much of it, I seem to lose a little of what made me like it in the first place, like Star Trek. The creators of the Matrix don't explain JACK SHIT, leaving us fans to have fun talking it up. Thanks, guys.

      And it's those I'm happy to talk to at a Matrix panel I'm holding at a local con in Indy on July 4 weekend.

      Sure, the Matrix ain't Shakespeare. But it beats the hell out of "Battlefield Earth." (Well, OK, "Winnie the Pooh" beats the snot out of "B:E", but you get the drift.)

      --
      Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
    6. Re:The Matrix by FoXDie · · Score: 1

      "Literature" isn't mutually exclusive to just books. Movies are literature as well. [url]http://www.galegroup.com/free_resources/gloss ary/glossary_im.htm%5B/url%5D

  29. Note to poster by geekoid · · Score: 1

    Who the hell does that?

    I have seen the term 'Hard' sci-fi to mean a more grounding to reality. That may or may not be an space opera.

    Star wars is a space opera, and it is not hard sci-fi.

    The ease to get into it depends on the presentation of the story. Nothing more.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Note to poster by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 1

      The ease to get into it depends on the presentation of the story. Nothing more.

      There's more to it than that: if you tackle a SF work featuring many alien races, with different levels of technology, and complex interactions between then, and/or with a convoluted storyline, then it can get quite hard to get into it, simply because it's too departed from normal reality. But otherwise you're right.

      I guess the real difference between sci-fi and SF is how consistent and plausible the futuristic environment is. For example, in Star Trek, when the characters are stuck in a plot, they just throw in a new laser-photon-superduper-something, without any explanation, asking the viewer to believe it just works, and that's it. In 2001, nothing the protagonists do go against the laws of nature (or as close to what Kubrick knew of them in space at the time).

      Also, in Star Trek, you hear things in the void of space, the ship is always presented upright, all aliens breathe oxygen/nitrogen like we do, at 1 atmosphere, and seem to live at 1G. In 2001, no sound during spacewalks, save for Dave's breathing, and views are free.

      That's the sort of thing that make sci-fi light and fun to watch, as it's the plot that counts, and SF more complex and interesting. In that light, Star Wars is sci-fi, since it doesn't require the viewer to concentrate on anything but the plot.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:Note to poster by espressojim · · Score: 1

      Funny. What you call sci-fi, I'd call fantasy. Sure, there are spaceships, lasers, and lightsabers. Ultimately, it's not about the technology - that just 'works' (see: magic).

      Sci Fi and speculative fiction seem to have a much stronger grounding in reality. SF doesn't need the obvious cues of laser/robot/AI/nanotech/etc to hit the reader off that something is altered away from the universe we know (which we'd just call fiction.) SF could be about an alternate timeline with the exact same technology. It's still internally consistent, and there are reasons why things are the way they are. I'd even hesitantly call science fiction a subset of SF.

      Star trek and star wars are both fantasy. ST is a fantasy/western, actually. Please don't sully SF by attributing either of those stories.

    3. Re:Note to poster by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "
      Also, in Star Trek, you hear things in the void of space, "

      with the exception of ships and music from the sound track, when has sound every been in space in the star trek universe.
      I'm no ST fan boy, but I honestly can't think of a time it is incorrect.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:Note to poster by the+phantom · · Score: 1

      phasers
      explosions
      ships moving about
      the magnetic boots in First Contact


      And I seem to recall an episode of Classic Trek where an enemy ship was destroyed using a giant directional speaker, blasting out sound waves through space.

      (Just to name a few)

  30. Obligatory piss-taking of the piss-taker... by ahem · · Score: 0, Redundant
    The writer name-drops Philip C. Dick, William Gibson, and Heinlein

    Err, shouldn't that be Philip K. Dick?

    --
    Not A Sig
    1. Re:Obligatory piss-taking of the piss-taker... by Carbonated+Milk · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Phillip C. Dick" was his porn name.

    2. Re:Obligatory piss-taking of the piss-taker... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I cant say J.
      you mean 'K'?
      that's right, J.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Obligatory piss-taking of the piss-taker... by joeldg · · Score: 1

      I was about ready to post about this.. heh
      again namedropping "Philip C. Dick" could have been pointed had he meant it be a point about the erroneous fact checking of the material..but sadly I think the reviewer has made an error there.. and saying that 'C' is nowhere near 'K' on the keyboard I cannot rightly call it a typo..
      so...
      umm.. well, we now have a review of a SF book by a guy who doesn't even know the important authors.

      doubly sad...

  31. Boy/Girl friend by ehiggins · · Score: 1

    If I found out my s.o. was actually a boy/girlfriend, yes I'd definitely dump her. But thanks for the advice!

  32. OMG No Pictures? What use is this book? by SJS · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It's refreshing to see an honest review when a reviewer doesn't like a book. However, when I got to:
    The book as a whole, particularly with its monotonous small text and a complete lack of the simplest illustrations or even eye-catching chapter header graphics, feels like a dry collegiate dissertation written by someone who could give a damn about the subject matter and just needs a passing grade.
    ...my perception of the whole review underwent a phase-change. It's not a rant, it's a whine.

    Of all the things to object to, this one shouldn't even have made the list. It's a book. It mean for those who can read. And this particular complaint puts me in mind of a child complaining about how "real books" are "too hard".

    Most of my library is full of great books that lack the simplest illustrations (even though I have more than a shelf's worth of Hellboy, Sandman, Far Side, Calvin & Hobbes, and suchlike; lest you get the wrong idea, be assured that I'm not opposed to illustrations) or eye-catching chapter-header graphics. I like books where the type is monotonous; anything eye-catching catches my eye, disturbs my reading, and derails my concentration.

    Some of the worst books I've encountered rely on ever-changing fonts, plentiful illustrations, eye-catching graphics, all to hide the fact that the author isn't saying much, or even saying it well.

    If the reviewer has come to rely on that sort of reading experience, perhaps it's because they've not been reading the right sort of books. Put down those technical manuals and pick up a volume of Wodehouse. Set aside that Learn-in-21-days tome and grab some Kipling. Whatever you do, go read something by someone who can entrance you with words, where the illustrations are created by your own imagination, where what catches your eye is the next sentence, and the next, and the next...

    This isn't to say that the book may be any good. I don't know, I haven't read it. I can imagine that it's a hard thing to do, to identify and discuss the themes of SF movies, much less more than one or two, in a single book. To cover the genre would likely result in a three-inch coffee-table book, four columns of tiny (monotonic!) type on every family-bible-thin page.

    Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

    --
    Pick One: http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~stremler/sigs/sigs.html (Note - disable Javascript first!)
    1. Re:OMG No Pictures? What use is this book? by porcupine8 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I notice that all of the examples you give of good books with little formatting are fiction.

      Do you have any examples that are not narratives?

      I find that for narratives (either fiction or non), a lack of formatting works very well because your imagination is carried smoothly through the text. In a non-narrative, though, some formatting can aid greatly in the readability. It can help your eye flow down the page, it can break up the monotony (even if it's well-written and interesting, reading it in unbroken paragraph form can get rough on the eyes).

      You're right that it can certainly be overdone, and used to mask deficiencies in the text. But in non-narrative non-fiction, a little formatting can be a very, very good thing, and I think the lack of it when it would be helpful is a valid complaint. Maybe not the author's fault, but it does affect the readability and enjoyability of the book.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    2. Re:OMG No Pictures? What use is this book? by derPlau · · Score: 1

      And as a college professor, I can say beyond a shadow of doubt that the existence of "illustrations and eye-catching chapter header graphics" in a "collegiate thesis" is a guarantee that the writer doesn't give a damn about the subject matter, and is in fact trying to distract the teacher into giving him a better grade.

      At least in the world of "collegiate theses," fancy fonts + unnecessary illustrations == crappy writing and worse research.

  33. Hold me back... by fermion · · Score: 1
    First, anyone who would mistake then name of Nichelle Nichols, or not care enough to check the proper spelling, has no right to be writing a book on scifi. She is the most beautiful and undisputed goddess of the cult sci fi universe, with the possible exception of Sigourney Weaver. All of these anorexic newcomers, little more than screen filler, should just pray to have the her presence.

    But seriously, I can't understand why this book is of any interest. It appears to be full of stupid errors, and seems to add nothing to the existing canon. I was expected the reviewer to say that it was mostly intolerable, but had a few gems that made it worthwhile. This is after all why we have book reviews. Not to tell what not to read, but what we might not ordinarily read, but might nevertheless enjoy. Of course, in an era where the only popular books are movie rewrites(thank you so much start wars), insightful reviews are too much to ask for.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  34. They seemingly feature one VERY popular plot... by jeblucas · · Score: 1
    ...The reluctant messiah.

    This is a plot that SF cannot seem to transcend. Neo of The Matrix has to save the human race? Oh wait, no, Sarah Conner from The Terminator is supposed to do that. Or is it young Master Skywalker? Or Paul Atreides from Dune? (He's only saving one planet's worth, really, I guess). The guy from Dark City also only saves a city's worth, but the story's the same. Even the best Superman movie (TWO, DERF) featured the Kryptonian as reluctant to save the whole frigging planet. Not really topical, but Frodo doesn't seem really that into it either.

    --
    blarg.
    1. Re:They seemingly feature one VERY popular plot... by tmhsiao · · Score: 1

      It's more popular than you know.

      There's no affiliate shit on that link, btw. I don't give a shit if you don't buy the book.

      --
      "My God...It's full of ads!" -Fry, about the Internet, Futurama
    2. Re:They seemingly feature one VERY popular plot... by drsquare · · Score: 1

      I'd say the opposite: Frodo started out incredibly eager, but slowly lost interest as the ring corrupted him. Although I'm talking about the subtle Tolkien version rather than Peter Jackon's unnecessary special effects and ham.

  35. Name drops Philip C. Dick??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That would be Philip _K_ Dick.

    Yikes. Thanks for the heads up on a worthless book.

    Joel

    1. Re:Name drops Philip C. Dick??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why submit as Anonymous Coward and then give your name at the end?

      Doesn't that defeat the object?

      Yours,
      Anonymous

  36. I have to admit... by Jack+Johnson · · Score: 1

    Reading "something that's so way off base in interpretation" doesn't seem quite so bad after reading through several paragraphs of "stammering" fanboy nitpicking about it.

  37. Bottom line by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    many young people showed interest in discussing things on a philisophical basis. How many movies have done that? I listend to a friends kid talk to his buddies, and they made some pretty could philisophical observation, and made some statements that held a lot of similaritiy to classic philosphies. I even recommended some books.

    They were thinking about something other then 'cool explosion' and chicks in leather. I eman, that came up, but it wasn't the ONLY thing they talked about.

    I consider that good.

    Persoanlly, I found that it pointed out central themes in religeon and rather nicely brought them together. Plus, hot chicks in leather.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Bottom line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "many young people showed interest in discussing things on a philisophical basis."
      They did?
      All I heard was some useless pseudophilosophical dribble.

      "I listend to a friends kid talk to his buddies, and they made some pretty could philisophical observation, and made some statements that held a lot of similaritiy to classic philosphies."
      Now you got me interested.
      Care to share them with us?

      "Persoanlly, I found that it pointed out central themes in religeon and rather nicely brought them together."
      It did?
      For example?

    2. Re:Bottom line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Leather, plus Vinyl and Latex. I prefer the latter.

  38. Luke vs Frodo by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

    Points to ya man. Never was the truth spoken more clearly. Lucas' obviously had no idea how to induce Anakins 'switch', except for lame-ass 'dreams' and mumblings from Palp about powers... You can't even compare LOTR and SW in the same breath...

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  39. Don't suppose that it mentions... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

    That Alien #3 was supposed to have been a much superior movie? I even read the script to it, someone once posted a link to it here on slashdot. Alan Dean Foster, of all people, wrote it. It was pretty good, I could see what it would have been...

    Oh, and the setup it would have left for #4 would have been awe-inspiring. Leave it to hollywood to fuck up unfuckupable trilogies...

    1. Re:Don't suppose that it mentions... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      Bah, William Gibson actually. Was thinking of the novelizations...

    2. Re:Don't suppose that it mentions... by Jezzerr · · Score: 1

      Most people don't like Alien 3, for many different reasons. I agree on some points but i have to say that David Fincher did a decent job with the stuff he was given.

      Watching the extras DVD on the quadrilogy (and reading on the net) about the corporate interference, the many re-writes, the chopping and changing of script writers (there were 11 different re-writes) im suprised the film actually got made.

      I agree that the Gibson script was cool, but at the end of the day it was just Aliens with bigger guns. The Alien 3 that was released wasn't what fans wanted, but it did have it's moments. Watch the directors edition from the quadrilogy, it's closer to what Fincher actually wanted the film to be.

      --
      The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity.
    3. Re:Don't suppose that it mentions... by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      That's pretty stupid. Every movie is supposed to be a "much superior" movie to what it ends up being... do you think the Director comes to work every day and says, "let's make us a mediocre piece of crap movie!" (Well, maybe From Justin to Kelly...)

    4. Re:Don't suppose that it mentions... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      The Gibson script would have been awesome because it was Aliens with more/bigger guns. But that it set it up for #4 to be what it would be, that's what put it over the top.

      Ripley arrives home to earth, wakes up to find the planet one giant hive of them? And Newt's still alive to rescue. I'm not sure how it would even end up, but it would have been the best of them all (which is saying something, considering how good both #1 and #2 ended up being, and how likely a Gibson #3 would have been).

      In 20 years, I can tell my personal AI to re-render it complete with authentic 1986 Michael Biehn/Sigourney Weaver/Lance Henriksen...

      Shit, I'll be able to do a proper Keaton Batman sequel too. God, but the future looks bright for movies...

  40. Re:Note to the reviewer(you're a moron) by gordo3000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    actually, reviewer needs to learn that in a book about sci-fi or SF, things about LOTR is completely off basis. Just because people who like sci-fi also like fantasy, they are not the same. Also, the reviewer probably needs to realize that comic book heroes are NOT sci-fi by the measures of almost all people. Comic books are mostly their own domain(at least the classic comic books which have been the ones to be turned into movies).

    If the reviewer is going to bash someone for including Small Soldiers, he should probably figure out that what he wanted to read about had nothing at all to do with the book title as well.

  41. 6 Campbellian faces down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    994 to go!

  42. As a failed author by LowbrowDeluxe · · Score: 1

    While I can appreciate the innate fanboy urge to persecute anyone who fails to properly respect the Truth of his or her personal religion-replacement, I'd usually rather hear about what could have been done to make a work better rather than why a particular work is bad. Getting published isn't easy, and between editors, fact checks, and other people involved in the process, the final product may not always bear a lot of relation to what you originally meant. The original story of A Clockwork Oarnge versus the American version of the story used for the movie is a good example of that. While I personally don't care for the original version (feeling that it's a bit excessively...British, I suppose) I was interested in how the last chapters radically alter the meaning of the story.

    And speaking of which, I feel that the book being reviewed that started all of this could have done with a bit more representation of Kubrick's work if it wanted to talk about philosophy in sci-fi.

    Just in case anyone thought I wasn't the kettle when I made fun of people's personal hobby horses earlier.

  43. That proves it... by geekoid · · Score: 1

    Let's see.
    Goes out of there way to point out they are a girl.
    Then goes out of there way to point out that they are an Lesbian.

    Yep, your a guy....or a neo pagan.
    Thank you, I'll be here all week!

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:That proves it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Neo pagan chicks are easy + always bi + always take it up the ass.

      Pity they don't shave the bush, tho.

  44. LOTR? by mindstormpt · · Score: 1

    I'm sorry but what exactly has LOTR to do with SF?

    1. Re:LOTR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha!

      You obiviously haven't seen the director's cut where Frodo is given a laser blaster and spends a good part of the time in a spaceship in conflict with aliens.

      Also, in the second LOTR movie, if you watch the expanded DVD version, you find out that Golum is really Frodo's father.

    2. Re:LOTR? by jakbutler · · Score: 1
      Perhaps a better question is, "What exactly has Star Wars to do with SF?"

      Now that's a can of worms to open; Is Star Wars more in the SF or Fantasy category?

    3. Re:LOTR? by mindstormpt · · Score: 1

      But you see, Star Wars at least has some pseudo-scientific stuff going on. In LOTR there are only trees and magic...

  45. Re:Quick Correction to the Correction by dr.badass · · Score: 1

    The author is probably asymilating the apostle Thomas with the author of the pseudopigraphal "Gospel of Thomas," which was a gnostic document.

    They are assumed to be the same. That is, whether you accept it as authentic or not, the supposed author of the text (if not the document) is the same as the doubting Thomas.

    --
    Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
  46. Oh my! by ytm · · Score: 1
    The book as a whole, particularly with its monotonous small text and a complete lack of the simplest illustrations or even eye-catching chapter header graphics
    No pictures, no fun!
  47. Exactly by spun · · Score: 1

    I'm a true SF geek, having read literally thousands of SF books and stories in my lifetime. I think anyone who has more than a cursory interest in the topic knows that there are very few science fiction movies at all. Most of them are science fantasy. To be frank, bad science fantasy.

    Most anything that is mass marketed is dumbed down as the suits think that most audiences are stupid hicks. I'm kinda sorry for the author of this review. It's obvious he hasn't experienced any really good SF, and so has nothing to compare things to. I mean, sure, I enjoyed a lot of these movies as the escapist fluff they are, but I wouldn't try to defend any of them from serious criticism.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  48. Review of the review by kronocide · · Score: 1

    Galaxy Quest is a true personal favorite, although it's about science fiction fandom, and not really a science fiction story.

    I was pleasantly surprised to see that Dark City and Strange Days were included, both underrated masterpieces and in my mind a lot more interesting than the contrived puzzles in any of the Matrix movies. The Alien movies deserve all the attention they can get.

    Lord of the Rings was rightly excluded, it's not science fiction--and fantasy is just a totally different bag, as any fan knows. (LOTR is a reactionary myth, SF is generally progressive in its world views and morals.)

    The first half of the review is just opinions repeated and stacked. The reviewer complains about poor interpretations and analyses, but once he gets to the examples they are all of typos, misspelled names, and misattributed quotes. None of the mistakes quoted are crucial to interpretation of the stories. In addition, the numerous references to the author's origin is a clear and unwarranted ad hominem. The reviewer even manages to make a joke at his own expense at one time:

    "The book as a whole, particularly with its monotonous small text and a complete lack of the simplest illustrations or even eye-catching chapter header graphics..."

    Well yes, in the UK they are known to read books without pictures from time to time.

    Moreover, I suspect that the giving Dick's name as "Philip C. Dick" was actually the reviewer's mistake. Very few fans are likely to make it, and I doubt it would pass a very cursory proofing of a book on science fiction. If it occurs repeatedly in the book then that would be a sign that there is something very seriously wrong with it.

    There are generally too many books on science fiction movies and hard to find one with some memorable content. But I'm not ready to dismiss this one after the review I've just read.

    1. Re:Review of the review by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moreover, I suspect that the giving Dick's name as "Philip C. Dick" was actually the reviewer's mistake. Very few fans are likely to make it, and I doubt it would pass a very cursory proofing of a book on science fiction. If it occurs repeatedly in the book then that would be a sign that there is something very seriously wrong with it.

      I think this answers any uncertainty you may still have had.
      http://glamourousrags.dymphna.net/philipkdick.html

    2. Re:Review of the review by kronocide · · Score: 1

      What uncertainties? I know Dick quite well, he's one of my absolute favorite authors.

  49. The Matrix: Reformatted by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 1

    If the reviewer has come to rely on that sort of reading experience, perhaps it's because they've not been reading the right sort of books. Put down those technical manuals...

    I was thinking this is probably the first book he's read since mgrade school. All his reading since has been on the web. That explains the whole review, not just the one point. 8^)

  50. Re: Interesting book was: Quick Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Got it:

    Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas by Elaine Pagels.

  51. Re: Interesting book was: Quick Correction by ndansmith · · Score: 1

    Thanks. I would like to note something about Thomas and the gospel of John. The major thematic structure of John has to do with the motif of "belief." Therefore the story of Doubting Thomas is of great importance to that theme. Even one of Jesus' closest disciples lacked belief, but then came to. And the thrust of that section is that belief must come without any physical proof for most Christians. Anyway, that is why I think that Doubting Thomas is an integral part of the literary structure of John, and not an addition/reaction to the gnostic sect.

  52. Not Suprised. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not suprising that a place where intelligent people come to engage in discourse isn't frequented by many right wingers. They are far too righteous to deal with such petty things as "facts" and "proof".

    1. Re:Not Suprised. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you have them mistaken with left wingers...you know...the ones who claim Bush was behind 9/11 and there was never a plane that hit the Pentagon.

  53. Sadly, the reviewer is off base as well. by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
    [The book being reviewd] definitely skips discussion on the the Lord of the Rings trilogy--a tragic omission in light of its popular and Oscar-winning performance that brought SF/Fantasy to Hollywood legitimacy.
    Sadly, the LOTR trilogy did no such thing - it rode on the legitimacy built by the Star Wars series, the Terminator series, and others. It came to be not just because SF was seen to be legitimate, but because it had legions of fanboys who would drool over it's presence on the screen and tons of possibilities for marketing tie-ins.
    This book was written by someone that doesn't appear to read or watch much in the way of SF beyond what they see at the movies.
    Which is unsurprising given that the book is about SF movies after all.
    The book as a whole, particularly with its monotonous small text and a complete lack of the simplest illustrations or even eye-catching chapter header graphics, feels like a dry collegiate dissertation written by someone who could give a damn about the subject matter and just needs a passing grade.
    Out here in the real world very, very, few books have either illustrations or eye-catching chapter graphics.
    Maybe I'm wrong or not as enlightened
    I think you are both - as main thrust of your criticism of the book seems to be that the author does not agree with your interpretation and does not seem to be a gushing fanboy. The bulk of your presentation isn't about the book, but about establishing your opinion and your fannish 'cred' to the readers of your review.
  54. What's Next? by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Funny

    Will the next volume be: From Matrix II to Zardoz?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:What's Next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and we shall all frolic in our garden of eden while the rest of the world rots. Except for those disturbed people who want to bring progress to the proles... using The Wizard of Oz.

      You teach a barbarian with a book that explains exactly how you have been raping and pillaging his people and don't expect him to kill you? STUPID! YOU SO STUPID!

  55. Entirely agreed. by Blacken00100 · · Score: 1

    After reading the book, I can't say I disagree with the reviewer in the slightest. Name-dropping is bad, people--but namedropping Heinlein, for God's sake, is a lot worse.

  56. No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's just one thing they could've fact-checked:

    "(Neo's pod-name, "Thomas" is a Gnostic Christianity reference to that apostle's doubt of the resurrection of Christ). My mom, of all people, got this, but it was lost completely by the writer."

    The story of "doubting Thomas" is in the *canonical* Gospels, not the gnostic ones. Now, there is the gnositc "Gospel of Thomas" which is something entirely different (it's mostly sayings), the influence of which basically died out when Gnosticism did, back in ancient times. I think its authorship was also in doubt, but I don't recall offhand. It's a favorite source of the "Jesus Seminar," but considered a lot less important by the bulk of mainstream scholars, even if some think it contains a pre-Markan sayings source. I believe they discuss a lot of it in "The Five Gospels" but I cannot seriously reccomend reading that piece of crap.

    So calling it a "gnostic" reference is misleading, at best. That particular story is certainly cannon, even if the gospel of the same name is most certainly not.

  57. Philip C. Dick, uh? *cough* by pkhuong · · Score: 1

    I believe you meant to write K.

    --
    Try Corewar @ www.koth.org - rec.games.corewar
  58. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  59. Roz Kaveney by Ray+Radlein · · Score: 2, Informative
    This book was written by someone that doesn't appear to read or watch much in the way of SF beyond what they see at the movies.
    Would this be a good place to point out that Roz Kaveney has been a major figure in British SF Fandom for roughly three decades now?

    She has co-written stories with Neil Gaiman, and was a Contributing Editor to John Clute and John Grant's Encyclopedia of Fantasy .

    She's no stranger to Media Fandom, either, being one of the major figures in UK Buffy Fandom (possibly in part because, if they were real, she would have likely been an Oxford classmate and fellow inhabitant of low dives with Rupert Giles and Ethan Rayne).

    In addition to knowing more or less everyone who is the least bit connected with SF in the UK, she has lead a life which can, perhaps, best be understood as science fiction, of the Late Heinlein or John Varley variety, in that, like all good posthumans, she has actually changed genders and sexual orientations during her lifetime.

    If that isn't demonstrative of a true dedication to science fiction, I don't know what is.
  60. SF TV & movies suck, Re:umm... by Finkbug · · Score: 1

    "Is this story some kind of weird dig at the kind of people who get their 'philosophy' from The Matrix? Or are you actually being serious."

    We can only hope the review is a joke. The book sounds equally lousy but more easily dismissed: am I the only Slashdot reading, SF loving person who finds the vast majority sci-fi movies and TV shows useless or worse? (Yes, I'm including Star Wars and Star Trek.)

    The reviewer complains about the movies chosen but doesn't suggest the clever and deep SF treatments that have appeared. Red Dwarf. Gattaca. Solaris (Tarkovsky, not Hollywood). There are many more though not as many as there should be. The Matrix is as profound as a stoned college bull session. Fun but boiled off by morning's sober light. Might I suggest Thomas M. Disch's THE DREAMS OUR STUFF IS MADE OF: How Science Fiction Conquered the World? One third pungent SF criticism, two-thirds examination of SF's influence on society and culture. UFO cultism, wet-noodle brained sci-fi TV, Heinlein's going solipsistic bonkers. All there. Couple it with Barry Malzberg's scarifying, funny Engines of the Night.

    --
    Feeling so good natured I could drool
    1. Re:SF TV & movies suck, Re:umm... by JimmehAH · · Score: 1

      The reviewer complains about the movies chosen but doesn't suggest the clever and deep SF treatments that have appeared. Red Dwarf.

      Red Dwarf? I mean I love the show and I've read all the authors' books but I'm not so sure about it being clever and deep. Well, maybe the Confidence and Paranoia episode.

    2. Re:SF TV & movies suck, Re:umm... by Finkbug · · Score: 1

      Red Dwarf ably riffed every SF cliche and was funny doing it. IMO tremendously smart show both in its SF knowledge and its control of sitcom conventions. Compare it to the leaden treatment the various Star Trek series gave the same chestnuts. Dwarf acknowledged why we love the content same time it was jabbing our frozen adolescent adorating with point-ed sticks. Can't ask for more than that.

      (Ya, I should have written clever and/or deep.)

      --
      Feeling so good natured I could drool
    3. Re:SF TV & movies suck, Re:umm... by JimmehAH · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I guess that's why I'm so looking forward to my flatmate bringing back my Red Dwarf DVD box set. First 4 series baby!

      The best comedy they have showing where I'm living is Friends. Yes, it is that bad.

  61. piss-taking of the piss-taking ofthe piss-taker... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This has been mentioned 50 times.

  62. The book sounds terrible... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the review I get the impression the only flaw it doesn't suffer from is a chip on its shoulder as regards nationality.

  63. SF is not Sci-Fi by jakbutler · · Score: 1
    I'm sorry, but equating SF to Sci-Fi is a gross error. Academically speaking (yes, people study SF!), SF is a larger category than Sci-Fi.

    Sci-Fi is (obviously) short for Science Fiction, and is predominantly used in reference to "The Golden Age of Sci-Fi" (read Arthur C. Clarke, Philip K. Dick, Isaac Asimov, etc). This is "hard" science fiction, where special attention is giving in the story to make it scientifically believable. In fact, Sci-Fi / Science Fiction was originally coined "Scientifiction," but that didn't quite catch on.

    SF is much more general, and is a concept championed by such authors Harlan Ellison and Ursala LeGuin. It stands for "Speculative Fiction." The idea behind it is that there is less focus on the scientific reality behind the story, and more behind the extrapolated ideas. The Left Hand of Darkness did not simply focus on the genetics behind a genderless society, it focused on the possible social affects. The science is assumed.

    This may all seem like nitpicking, but I had the pleasure to attend the 2004 Nebula awards. Neil Gaiman's acceptance speech was read by Harlan Ellison. Neil made him agree to read it verbatim. And Harlan looked more upset when Neil made him say he was a "Sci-Fi" author than when he was made to say he was a Republican. So the gist of the story? Sci-Fi is what is known as "Hard SF" and SF in general is not to be confused with "Sci-Fi." It does not...compute.

  64. A parody of eruditation by coopex · · Score: 1

    The abundance of posts such as the aformentioned indicate that inexorably the criticisms of the sequals are generated by those who did not focus assidously on understanding the precise nature of the Matrix.

    Ergo some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not.

    The clarification for the mansifestion for Neo's power outside of the matrix is dependent on the Architect's commentary on the function of "The One". Fundamentally Neo's power derives from the machines themselves, "The Source" as it were, whose raison d'etre is to also administer the sentinals, harvesters, etc... Thus, Neo has the qualifications to dispatch the sentinals, ironically using his conduit though "The Source" against the machines themselves.

    Admittedly, minor anomalities exist that inevitabily must be elucidated, particularly, the localization of Neo's ascendancy, thus the adjacent sentials could be extirpated yet remote sentinals were not correspondingly affected, and his brain possessing the capability of connecting to the Matrix without "jacking-in". I assert the film contains within itself explications for these as well as the various other inquiries proposed by those skeptical of the profound nature of this trilogy.

    My aspiration is that people will allot a moderate interval of time to analyze the implications and connotations though their interpretations, and castigate the sequals concerning the subpar elements: inadequate acting and confabulation and an overemphasis on CGI paraphernalia, which diminishes the quality of the film and must ergo, be denunciated. Apropos the transcendent DVD boxset, it contains penetrating divinations regarding the aformentioned questions.

    That aside, my criticism of the matrix is not that, like me, the Wachowski brothers used a thesaurus like it was going out of style, the vague pseudo mysticism (as opposed to nonvague nonpseudo mystacism), or any of the other minor botched details. The major problem is that the trilogy is incoherent. The first film is complete, the second and third are just a poor excuse to draw out the series. It's parallel to Star Wars, except Lucas got someone good to write ESB.

    As a side note, I'm pretty sure I misspelled a few words. Show how "1337" you are by finding them!

    --
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
  65. No Doctor Who? by wolverine1999 · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised she doesn't mention Doctor Who since she's British and the Doctor is really a british institution....

    There were two good movies based on Doctor Who (the ones with the Daleks in them) starring Peter Cushing and the tv-movie with Paul McGann...

  66. Don't you mean K? by Tiggs23 · · Score: 1
    "The writer name-drops Philip C. Dick..."

    Was this the author's error, or the reviewer's?

    --
    "The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." --Ayn Rand