How Games And Religion Could Mix

An anonymous reader writes "The Passion of the Christ brought in $370 million at the box office. The Left Behind book series have sold over 63 million copies. And Christian Rock is growing more and more popular. But the video game industry has so far ignored the topic of religion. CNN/Money's Game Over column talked with game developers (including id Software CEO Todd Hollenshead and Diablo co-creator Bill Roper) about the reasons behind this - and asked them what sort of game they would make if they were creating one with a religious theme. The answers ranged from a Moses RPG to a faith-based MMO."

Comments

Games and religion?

[TripMaster Monkey]

Already been done.

Re:Games and religion?

[Arctic Dragon]

Religious video games have been around since the 8bit NES days.

Re:Games and religion?

[Wylfing]

Yeah, here's one of my favorite examples of a game with plenty of religion in it.

What? Oh, my mistake. You're not talking about games with religion. You're talking about games that evangelize American Protestant Christianity. Well, no, I don't want to play a game that is trying to convert me or get me "fired up for Christ!" or any of that. It's nothing to do with the fact that it's religious. PETA likes to produce "activities" that evangelize their viewpoint, and I don't want that junk either.

I will go out on a limb and suggest that the only people who want a game that promotes a moral viewpoint are the ones who are already zealots.

Re:Games and religion?

[RevAaron]

Yeah, there have been religious video games since the 8 bit days. And they pretty much all suck. Oftentimes technically, but they're usually just really, really, really lame.

Imagine my shock as a bright eyed and bushy tailed 8 year old:
friend: "Hey Aaron! You coming over and play Nintendo after school?"
me: "Yup, my mom said I could. Let's play!" ...
friend: "Check out this game! It's called Moses and the Trees of God and it's just like Super Mario Brothers, but it's not evil!"
me: "Mario Brothers is ... evil?"
friend: "Yeah! Nintendo is a tool of Satan, you know, there are angels of God and demons constantly fighting over your soul... AS WE SPEAK! So, every time we choose something godly, we are fighting Satan! Cool, huh?"
** 4 minutes into playing, the game freezes **
me: "hmm... that's no fun!"
friend: "Yeah, but it's christian! SO it's better than Mario!"

I knew that crazy mofo for a longtime after that, and had the same discussion for so many things- "Hey! This sounds just like Green Day... but it's CHRISTIAN!" ... "but Todd, Green Day blows, why would I want to listen to a bad Green Day clone with lame, non-subtle jesus-is-lord lyrics?"

No answer for that.

Man, that kind of childhood whacks a person out. I'll never forget the look on his face as the automatic garage door closed, his 12 year old face staring out as he started taking his clothes off. Standing on the concrete floor at the inside door to the house, his parents surrounding him, looking stern. They caught us listening to another friends copy of some Adam Sandler CD. "Todd! You will strip down into your underwear, and you are going to get a spanking for your sin." I found out at school the next day that the parents made him burn the CD, wanting to rid the world of such vile and evil filth, with no regard to the fact that the CD was owned by some other kid...

OK, sorry about the flashback! The moral? Just say no to poorly done, lame christian video games. Which is to say, there exists some decent so-called christian music, but mostly because it's music made with "christian values" in mind, rather than singing about naught but jesus and god, in the most annoying fashion possible.

Re:Games and religion?

[I(rispee_I(reme]

See also Bible Adventures.

Re:Games and religion?

[gazoombo]

Anyone remember Captain Bible?

Re:Games and religion?

[Anonymous Coward]

My grandma has that game. :D

Re:Games and religion?

[vettemph]

I'd like to see a game where you run down a street trying to dodge the rocks that the christians are throwing at you. If you make the course you get to run around jamming crosses into thier skulls. :)
It's kinda like this flash based game where you try to steer a drunk down the street as he wobbles. Your job is to keep him balanced on his feet. Score is based on distance achieved.

steer the drunk: http://www.wagenschenke.ch/

Re:Games and religion?

[orkysoft]

HOW DARE YOU INSULT XBILL LIKE THAT!?!?!?!

Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

Re:Games and religion?

[Anonymous Coward]

I will go out on a limb a suggest that the only people who promote your point of view are anti-religious zealots.

hypocrite. Look it up.

Re:Games and religion?

[Moraelin]

"I will go out on a limb a suggest that the only people who promote your point of view are anti-religious zealots."

His point of view was that he doesn't want someone preaching at him and trying to convert him, or at least doesn't count that as entertainment. (And I'll wholeheartedly aggree with him there: if I wanted to hear someone preaching, I'd go to church. When I start a game, I expect entertainment, not preaching.)

So your point is... what? That anyone who isn't an "anti-religious zealot" is just dying to hear you preaching? It might come as a surprise to you, but no, most people really aren't just waiting for you to come enlighten them.

"hypocrite. Look it up."

Ah, good. So if presumably you're not a hypocrite, I suppose you actually like someone coming and trying to convert you to _their_ religion.

Great! Well here's mine:

My religion is that it's all a MMO. (Great graphics, huh?) And we're all the creation of the Game Designer. It all started as a university assignment. (Let's be honest, noone but a student waits until the last 7 days to even start.)

So it took Him a bit of messing with the Transform & Lighting code (Let there be light), physics and such, and finally he even had a working map for it: Eden. Not a big one, and definitely no challenge playing that one, since everything respawned in abbundance. But hey, it's a start, and not a bad one.

And then He had two players. And lo did the Game Designer rejoice, and even let them name the NPCs. (Can be an euphoric day for any MUD admin, so I can understand the guy.)

Except those two abused bugs. That's players for you. You tell them "Stay away from that tree 'cause it's unfinished and still does funny and unbalanced things to your stats" and what do they do? Right. Ask any MUD or MMO admin if that's a surprise. (Well, other than the surprise that He didn't ban their cheating asses.)

So, anyway, to cut a long story short, from there it went on with a player wipe (the flood), implementing a buggy language system and watching it run amok (tower of Babel), and various other such mis-haps. All the way to Jesus pulling a Leroy stunt and aggroing two large groups at the same time, namely the romans and the jews. Noob, really. Any experienced player could have told him you need to pull from large groups, not rush in and aggro the lot of them.

Well, there you go, that's _my_ religion. I don't doubt that since, you aren't a hypocrite, you didn't mean only others should listen to _yours_. That would be hypocrisy. You, undoubtedly, are glad to be enlightened to someone else's religion, right? Glad I could be of service ;)

Re:Games and religion?

[elrous0]

And they pretty much all suck. Oftentimes technically, but they're usually just really, really, really lame.

The problem with a Christian video game is that all the parts of the Bible that would make a good video game are the parts that Christians like to ignore.

They pick and choose passages of Jesus going around being a hippy, feel-gooder and ignore the incest, barbarism, anti-semiticism (in the New Testament), brutal phrophecy (unless they're holed in in a compound in Waco), etc. And that is the stuff that might actually make a good video game.

You could actually make a pretty good game called "Conquest of Judea" where you start out with as the Hebrew tribe and must conquer the Caananites, Phillistines, and other tribes to ascend to power in Judea. The battle scenes could be absolutely brutal.

The game could even start out with one of the most disturbing cutscenes in video game history--The God of Israel's angel of death slaughtering every first-born of Egypt (how many times do you see kids and babies slaughtered in a video game?).

-Eric

Re:Games and religion?

[RevAaron]

The problem with a Christian video game is that all the parts of the Bible that would make a good video game are the parts that Christians like to ignore.

No joke! I remember when I read the Book of Revelations- I was like 10 years old. That would make a badass game. Maybe you can play good or bad, but unlike in all the christian games I've seen that allow you to do that, evil needs to be able to win. But have some consequence.

You should talk to someone, get that cutscene put in some game. It'd be pretty badass.

Re:Games and religion?

[Nopal]

"anti-semiticism" in the new testament? Where specifically? (It's anti-semitism BTW).

Re:Games and religion?

[elrous0]

"anti-semiticism" in the new testament? Where specifically? (It's anti-semitism BTW).

Pretty much throughout. The New Testament was written by Paul and his students, and their students. In other words, it was written by Greek-speaking Roman gentiles (with the dubious exception of Paul himself) who had a vested interest in absolving Rome for its role in Jesus's death and no hesitation in blaming the Saducees and Pharisees (who, by the time the Gospels were written, had been wiped out with the destruction of the Temple or dispersed).

Hence the big elaborate play (laugable by anyone who knows anything about the historical Pontius Pilate) where the undeniable reality of Jesus's cruxifiction is explained away by the Sanhedrin "forcing" Pontius Pilate to kill Jesus.

That's just one fairly obvious example, among many.

I would also get into Paul and Jesus/James and the tension between Greek-speaking Jews who had "sold out" to the Empire vs. the Aramaics. But this will be my last post on this particular subject. It's obvious you're a believer. And I DO NOT argue with believers. I have more productive things to do with my time--like arguing with brick walls.

-Eric

Re:Games and religion?

[Some_Llama]

" "anti-semiticism" in the new testament? Where specifically? (It's anti-semitism BTW)."

He is probably just confused by all the FUD spread by anti-jesus groups...

Re:Games and religion?

[Nopal]

Hence the big elaborate play (laugable by anyone who knows anything about the historical Pontius Pilate) where the undeniable reality of Jesus's cruxifiction is explained away by the Sanhedrin "forcing" Pontius Pilate to kill Jesus.

First of all, if you believe that Jesus' crucifixion is "explained away" by the sanhedring forcing anyone to do anything then it's clear that you have no authority to speak on the matter because no sane christian on earth would take that position (funny considering that you seem to fancy yourself an "expert" on the matter, yet you don't show the most basic understanding of Christianity).

Jesus explains in all four gospels that he lays his life willingly for all of us. This was written by the apostles, which were Jewish, and accepted by modern christians, which are as good to the Jews as they are to anyone else. The statements attributed by these Jewish writers to the sanhedrin could possibly have historical significance (blasphemy was the worst of sins to the Jewish authorities). By claiming that such passage is "clearly antisemitic" (i.e.- implying there is absolutely truth to it and was put there merely to incite hate) you don't allow for this posiblity. Such certainty implies that either you know more than the scholars that have dedicated their life to studying the new testament in its historical context (in which case, I want to see your full research notes and supporting information), or you are pulling stuff out of your ass, perhaps motivated by anti-christian hate not unlike the very anti-semitism that you claim to speak against.

Anti-semitism is in essence hate of the Jewish race. Here's a good, balanced writeup which you may want to look at:

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/J/ Je/Jews_in_the_New_Testament.htm

In a nutshell, it speaks of those who wrote the gospels as Christians that were also ethnic Jews who desired to coax religious Jews away from Judaism. Such a move cannot be anti-semitic since by definition, it rests on a difference of opinion about religion, not about race.

Re:Games and religion?

[Nopal]

I know is poor etiquette to answer twice to a post, but you may want to consider the possibility that the accepted notion that Pilate was a ruthless and vicious ruler with absolute power over Judea does not mean that the narration in the gospels did not occur as written.

Consider this. Pilate may have been ruthless, but he, like most Romans, was probably very superstitious and mindful of omens. Pilate, having been warned by his wife not to sentence Jesus to death because of a dream, could have shyed away from his ruthlessness out of a sense of self-preservation.

My point is that the historical, ruthless Pilate and the gospel accounts of a reluctant, look-after-number-one Pilate are not necessarily at odds with each other. If you are intellectually honest about your inquiries you have to see this as a posibility, yet your mind is made up. That does not speak well of the sincerity of your arguments.

I suggest that you do a little bit more in-depth thinking before mindlessly throwing the word anti-semitism around. Otherwise, you cheapen the meaning of the word, and close your mind to honest thought.

BTW, nice ad-homenim at the end. Who is the brick wall, the one that refuses to argue and throws out ad-homenims as excuses, or the one that poses questions?

Passion of the Christ, the videogame

[elrous0]

I'm not even a Christian, but I would BUY that game!

Choose Your side!! Christian or Pagan, the Choice is Yours!!

-Eric

Re:Passion of the Christ, the videogame

[SScorpio]

Blah, I'm still waiting for Billy Graham's Bible Blasters to come out. Quick convert the heathens.

Re:Passion of the Christ, the videogame

[Anonymous Coward]

Aww. You just winged that one and made him a Unitarian.

Re:Passion of the Christ, the videogame

[leland242]

Too bad the game would be rated M and minors couldn't buy it.

Oh wait, it has religious significance, so the level where jesus is getting whipped *is* appropriate for children.

Makes total sense.

[grub]

Both games and religion are make-believe, it only makes sense that they merge. Jesus with a BFG-900 taking on a 50M tall Ganesh with glowing laser-tusks could be fun.

Re:Makes total sense.

[Sebadude]

Now that, I would worship. It also begs the question:

What would Jesus do... with a BFG-9000?

Games haven't ignored it

[vasqzr]

Nobody wants to play a religous game, just like nobody wants to listen to religous music.

Here's an example. And another.

The thing with religion in the US is, people will attend services but are embarassed to say so.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[Pluvius]

How do you explain the sales of Christian rock (as the /. blurb mentioned)?

Do most of these teenagers listen to Christian rock because that's all they're allowed? Probably, but you could say the same thing about video games. No, the reason why Christian video games go nowhere is because they're horrible. Even Christian rock, Left Behind, and so forth are of much higher quality, especially when compared to the mainstream music and books that most people like now-a-days anyway.

Rob

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[pthor1231]

Nice, reference two OLD games, and link reviews, and that suddenly leads to the fact that no one wants to play religious themed games? Also, about people being embarassed about attending services, I don't know where you came up with that idea.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[Gulthek]

Did...did you just say that Christian rock and the Left Behind series are higher quality? Granted, mainstream isn't too high a target but I still have trouble seeing this.

I guess things have come a long way since Carmen and Chicks comics. Or maybe they seem higher quality to those with ears for the faith orientation; but to my impartial eyes and ears the lyrics and books seem trite, the emotions forced and self-serving, and the "faith" monetary based.

But don't just say "Christian" games go nowhere; I challenge you to find any real world religion well represented by fictional book, music, or video game. Where's my video game that simulates the Buddhist wheel of life and my character's struggle to wake up from it and break the chains that bind? Of course the realtime lifelong meditation would be tricky to gamify, but I'm sure it could be done. :-)

The best religious videogame I can think of is Ultima IV and that wasn't even a real religion (nice concepts though).

Give me a Bioware RPG (with the good and evil possibilities that implies) set in Biblical times and I'd be all over that game. How cool would it be to lead the Hebrews out of Egypt...or betray them for a rich reward.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[Pluvius]

Did...did you just say that Christian rock and the Left Behind series are higher quality?

Than Christian video games? I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who's tried all of those who wouldn't agree with me. As corny and weak as that music and those books are, they're still far better than crap like what Wisdom Tree puts out.

Where's my video game that simulates the Buddhist wheel of life and my character's struggle to wake up from it and break the chains that bind?

I think this might be something like what you're looking for.

Rob

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[SocialEngineer]

I listen to and write Christian-influenced music (not Christian rock, or Christian pop, mind you - I have a solo Industrial project, and I also write classical and neo-classical music - almost all of my music is instrumental). Granted, most Christian music in my favorite genres.. well.. suck. If you are into electronic/industrial, check out Juggernautz - they definately rival their secular peers.

I'd play a Christian game if it was good. Thats the point - Love it or hate it because its good or not, to you. People play those stupid deer avenger games, or the Extreme Paintbrawl games, and they are awful by most gamer's standards.

Look at classical music - Handel's "Messiah", Vivaldi's "Gloria", Brahm's German Requiem - all regarded highly among classical music fans. Why? Because they are all good.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[yasth]

I challenge you to find any real world religion well represented by fictional book, music, or video game

Narnia to name the easy example. Books are easy. solid games are hard because of the interactivity ("Open World" systems like Morrowind, or Dues Ex well they almost demand that you rob people blind) I mean the easy thing I can think of would be SimMissionary but it would be hard to make that PC. (Also wooing people over to your side virtually seems like a waste of time outside of a training tool).

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[-kertrats-]

Nobody wants to listen to religious music? Thats why several christian rock bands break 50,000-100,000 sales on every album they sell (Pillar, Skillet, etc)

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[TheWatchfulBabbler]

The thing with religion in the US is, people will attend services but are embarassed to say so.

Quite the opposite -- Americans tend to overreport their observances; actual church attendance tends to run 10-20% lower than self-reported figures.

As for religious music, the last few thousand years suggest you may not be right. More recently, how do you feel about a group like U2, whose music is deeply influenced by Catholicism? The Violent Femmes? Leonard Cohen, whose music feeds upon his Jewish heritage and Buddhist beliefs?

I do agree that music that places ideology before artistry suffers, but the same is true of any medium -- consider the Left Behind series, which manages to be both terrible theology and terrible writing. Those soi disant Christians who use their poorly-conceived theologies to hide from the ethical, moral, and emotional turmoil of being human are all but incapable of making decent art, but don't mistake their crude passion plays for all religiously-infused works.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[tacroy]

No one likes christian music they like that devil music like Switchfoot, P.O.D, Jaci Velasquez, Evanescence, Chevelle. ..irony.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[bofkentucky]

Game designers hit PC limitations all the time. Sid Meier's Pirates should have african slaves (Sugar plantations crews, slave raids, etc) and prostitues (comfort women, disease vectors for enemy crews) if it is going to be a "realistic" sim, but there is no way those would make it past the ESRB.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[jpsowin]

I challenge you to find any real world religion well represented by fictional book, music, or video game.

Fictional books: Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis. Do you consider Paradise Lost by Milton fiction? Then that too. What about Dante's Inferno? Pilgrim's Progress by Bunyan. And that's just off the top of my head--there are others.

Music: Have you ever heard of Bach, Mozart, maybe Handel? Or any of the classic hymn composers? I think simply listing Handel's massive Messiah should prove my point.

So... what do I win since I met your "challenge"?

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[-kertrats-]

If given the choice between a top 40 station and something like RadioU (christian rock radio station, but available streaming online at radiou.com), I can't think of a single music fan (of rock, obviously) that would willingly choose the former. Their may be better music in indie circles that I haven't heard, but compare anything from Thousand Foot Krutch, tobyMac or Falling Up to mainstream 'rock' like Coldplay and there's no competition.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[Danny Rathjens]

"The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music." -- George Carlin

There is some pretty good art and architecture, too. ;)

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[elemental23]

Interesting that they remain almost totally unknown outside of Christian circles. I've never heard of either band.

Christian music really seems to live in its own isolated world. It's pretty rare to see one acheive anything remotely like mainstream popularity. I think Creed was the most recent one to broke out, and that was years ago. I have no idea who the last one before them was.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[Pluvius]

Stryper, maybe?

BTW, Creed was just a "Christian" band (i.e. they tried really hard to act like they weren't, but they so obviously were). Real Christian bands are not only open about their faith, they also make it a very explicit part of their music (yes, even more explicit than Creed did).

Rob

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[Sylver Dragon]

I just have to put in my 2 cents worth. Left Behind was awful. I got about half way through the book before putting it down. The writing is childish at best, the story is so thin you can see right through it to the preaching. For goodness sake, if you're going to talk about christian fiction, at least use C.S. Lewis or Dante, or any one of a number of good writers who did christain based works.
As for christian rock, as long as it isn't too preachy, it's not too bad.
As for why the stuff is selling so well, we've got a lot of chirstians in this country, and they like anything which validates their religion. Take a look at the Left Behind series. The writing is terrible, and preachy beyond belief, but for someone who agrees with the message, they are going to love it because it reaffirms their belief. Christain rock has it even better, much of it isn't bad, and it gets a bonus by reaffirming beliefs.
Back to the subject at hand. A well done christain based game could work, the biggest problem with it is, it's going to have to allow the player to make wrong choices, without that, it will feel forced and no fun. Even still, it may fall into the trap of feeling too much like a sermon, which could suck the fun right out of it.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[GRW]

Here is a Buddhist Game".

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[FLEB]

If given the choice between a top 40 station

Off? Is "off" an option?

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[HanClinto]

I challenge you to find any real world religion well represented by fictional book, music, or video game. Where's my video game that simulates the Buddhist wheel of life and my character's struggle to wake up from it and break the chains that bind? Of course the realtime lifelong meditation would be tricky to gamify, but I'm sure it could be done. :-)

Most of the other answers to this challenge focused on Christianity, so here's a couple others:

The religion of Atheistic Existentialism I feel is well-represented by the book "L'etranger" (The Stranger) by Albert Camus.
For a video game example of this worldview, any atheistic hedonistic game such as GTA will do (not bashing it, I played through it and enjoyed it, I'm just commenting on the worldviews represented).

A classic Buddhist book would be "Siddhartha" by Hermann Hesse -- while it's not perfect doctrine, I'm under the impression that it represents many things well.
I've seen a couple examples of Buddhist video games, but they were usually things to aid in meditation.

I haven't read many writings of followers of Joseph Smith, but the best example I can think of that I've read was some of the literature by Orson Scott Card. "The Lost Boys" did an excellent job of presenting real-life Mormonism to the reader in a way that showed the difference between the psychos that give Mormons a bad name and to the ones who are more moderate, reasonable, and intelligent. Interestingly enough, the protagonist in that story is a former video game programmer. :)
I don't know of any specifically Mormon video games.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the storylines of Final Fantasy heavily influenced by Japanese Shinto religion?

So anyway, there's a taste of religious literature and video games other than the obvious Christian ones.

Cheers!

--clint

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[Pluvius]

I read the first two books; I got that far because of how unintentionally funny the whole thing was. But I suspect (and this is borne out by the sales) that the people who would buy Christian books in the first place would enjoy this series a lot. Not so with Christian video games; those are so bad that I don't think most people would play them even if they had nothing else to play.

Rob

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[rohlfinator]

You haven't heard of Switchfoot, have you?
It may be rare for a Christian band to acheive mainstream popularity, but the odds of any band being a mainstream hit are slim. I would guess that you probably have a favorite band that's not regularly played on the radio.

Browsing the shared iTunes music folder at school, it was rare for me to find someone who didn't have some Christian music on their computer. Between Switchfoot, P.O.D., Jars of Clay, Five Iron Frenzy, Relient K, etc. etc., most every iTunes folder had at least a few songs by Christian bands.

And check out http://www.purevolume.com/. It's not a specifically Christian site by any means, but almost daily a Christian band is featured in the top 10 list, be it Thousand Foot Krutch, Anberlin, Relient K, Emery, and a number of others. Christian music has really grown in the last few years. You'd probably be surprised.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[-kertrats-]

If you insist that I name popular bands, I point to P.O.D., Switchfoot, or Lifehouse as Christian bands that have achieved mainstream success. I listed bands that would be comparable to other obscure genres (I doubt many outside of christian circles know Pillar, Hawk Nelson, Further Seems Forever, or any of a number of successful bands).

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're going to try and say that religiously-influenced music is of a higher quality, just use Rakim as an example. Point proven.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[servognome]

I challenge you to find any real world religion well represented by fictional book, music, or video game.

Books: I would characterize the Bible as a mix of fiction and history relating to religion.
Video game: I thought Darklands did a good job handling the religious aspects of medieval Germany

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[Anonymous Coward]

I challenge you to find any real world religion well represented by fictional book

Does Scientology count?

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[leland242]

You hit the nail on the head here. I barely know the hit bands, nevermind the ones that sold 50,000 copies (which, if your using that as a number to brag about, is pretty weak, imo).

Guess I'm going to hell.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[Anonymous Coward]

U2, whose music is deeply influenced by Catholicism

Bwwaaahhahahaha. Bono, the Dublin 4 suburbanite's music was "deeply influenced by catholicism" alright: like most middle-class dubliners, he would think catholicism is a load of insane vampire-worshipping claptrap that's only useful to keep the idiot rural irish yokels out beyond the pale quiet.

Re:Games haven't ignored it

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody wants to listen to religious music? Thats why several christian rock bands break 50,000-100,000 sales on every album they sell (Pillar, Skillet, etc)

A large portion of these sales probably come from people who only buy Christian-specific music, like my brother. He buys tons of CDs, but he only ever shops at a Christian book/music store.

Also, it's a lot easier to get on the shelves at such a store than a mainstream megastore. They wouldn't be selling nearly as much if they didn't have a fairly captive audience with a lot of disposable income.

Xenosaga

[Neon Spiral Injector]

I thought that the Xenosaga series was covering the topic very well.

Re:Xenosaga

[Pluvius]

By "but the video game industry has so far ignored the topic of religion," the submitter obviously meant "but the video game industry has so far ignored the topic of serious Christianity (as opposed to the silliness found in Xenogears et al.)." And of course that's incorrect too, if you consider such examples as Wisdom Tree (which was actually mentioned in the article).

Rob

Re:Xenosaga

[megli]

That and Final Fantasy Tactics.

Re:Xenosaga

[Dizzle]

Mod parent up! The original poster obviously looked in the store, saw no games dealing explicity with Christianity, and said that there wasn't any. This is a sweeping generalization. Many games have religion in them, even if it's not necessarily retelling a religious story. Xenosaga is one (bad game, but that's beside the point), and I'm positive there's others. Just because they don't deal with the poster's religion doesn't make them non-religious games.

Even GTA has religion. The mission for Jizzy the Pimp that has you trying to save Jizzy's ho from a priest in a limo... well... a priest is religious, right?

Re:Xenosaga

[Qzukk]

Or Final Fantasy Legends 1 on the Gameboy. Nothing like meeting the creator, and then killing him in one hit with the chainsaw.

hmm

[hobotron]

:lvl 53 Judas LFG!
:guyss??
:plx i need grp
:i wont tk guys rly

Re:hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

I was always looking forward to a Christian-based fighting game style.

Peter would have a fishing net and yell something like "get thine body here!!!" His finishing move could be the reverse-crucifixion.

There could be a special move where paper would fall from the sky called "Letters of Paul" (hey, it works for Gambit, right?) or he could do this one move called "Persecution" that does damage against Christians.

Judas could do the "Betrayal Kiss" move and have the opponent taken away by pharisees.

Zachaeus (sp?) could be the midget fighter. Lazarus was already animated from the darkstalkers series. Ezekiel could do that Samuel Jackson line from Pulp Fiction. Job could beat the heck out of everyone but will still lose no matter what. Then Jesus...can send forth the Holy Spirit and decimate everything in sight...but only on the second round if he was killed on the first round. Satan, of course, would be an unlockable cheat code.

As a framework...

[Otter]

Fifield said he would use biblical stories as a framework. "The story of Moses has multiple decade long breaks in the text," he said. "Fill in those blanks and detail his rise to prominence in the Egyptian military, his wanderings and encounters in the wilderness and end the game with God's Judgment of Egypt and deliverance of the Hebrews through the Red Sea."

From a gameplay point of view, this one strikes me as the most promising of the ideas. I don't recall Moses' "prominence in the Egyptian military" in the original text, exactly, (although he obviously was a pretty badass guy) but the overall plan seems sound.

Re:As a framework...

[Dark Paladin]

The writings of Josephus, who was a Jewish scholar, hold that Moses was one of the major generals or some such for Pharaoh, and brought him much glory.

I'm a little off on the details I'm sure, but you can check out more here.

Re:As a framework...

[LocoMan]

Well, he was pharao's adopted son... I doubt that anyone that would deny him a promotion would have a very long military career after that... or a life at all... :)

How Games And Religion Could Mix

[Anonymous Coward]

How Games And Religion Could Mix

1) Suicide bombing RPG
2) Sim Christian Evangalist
3) Buddhist Reincarnation MMOG
4) "Don't Hurt the Cows" Hindi Strategy
5) Druidic Tree Adventure

religious games

[FrontalLobe]

I remember when i was in high school. Our church youth group went on a trip somewhere, and they brought a projector and an NES. They actually had these kind of games with them.

There was one I remember where you were Noah, you had to pick up animals and throw them in the ark, but none of us could figure out what the controls where to actually get them to stay in the ark.

Seriously... It was something right out of the Flanders' household...

Re:religious games

[Pluvius]

Bible Adventures, the game that could be found in every Christian household with a video-gaming child at that point in time. I don't remember having a problem with keeping the animals in the ark, though. I think you were just supposed to press Up to enter it while still carrying the animal.

Rob

Re:religious games

[leland242]

Dude, did you guys get to play Exodus?

My roommates and I picked that up for the NES when we were in college - damn, that was a fun game. Shooting these big 'W' bullets at the enemies and trying to figure out the puzzles.

There were cutscenes between the levels that were hard because they asked you bible questions. I had to dig deep to get some of those answers.

Note: I'm an athiest - I enjoyed it because it was fun. And I was probably really messed up at the time.

Limitations...

[Short Circuit]

One of the problems with doing games based on historical contexts is that, like it or not, events happened a certain way. No retrying until you win. Purists--and there are a lot of outspoken purists when it comes to religion--hate it when the apparent outcome of a historical event can be changed by human interaction.

However, I can see games being written that take religious values into account, and set the player's goals in line with those values. I'd probably even play a few.

Re:Limitations...

[freakmn]

It could be done in a current context, also. Perhaps something like paperboy, with the gideons, or something throwing bibles towards houses. To me, as a Christian, I think a game is a game, and I'll play Christian Games, only if they are good. Same goes for music (Personal favorite Christian band: Five Iron Frenzy).

As a side note, I believe that many Christians (and perhaps other religions, also) take things way too seriously. I wouldn't force people to believe what I believe, because I've had people try to do that to me. I realize that people have differing beliefs and values. A whole lot of problems that are caused by religion could be solved with some understanding. /rant

Re:Limitations...

[msplacid2]

I'm sorry we gotta talk about something.

Imagine a Scientology MMORPG

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine a Scientology MMORPG..

You'd start out with quite little, and have to work your way up through various 'levels', while either having to live in the game or by spending tons and tons of real life money just to get cool stuff in the game. You'd get addicted to the game, and they'd keep adding things to it to make sure you don't leave. The game would be set in a weird sci-fi world where things are totally ridiculous, but you don't realize so at the time.

Oh.. hang on, that describes, um, almost every MMORPG that's out now :)

Re:Imagine a Scientology MMORPG

[Anonymous Coward]

Only I haven't seen an MMORPG game that has aliens infecting people brains and taking over.

Oh wait I hear a knock on my door, one sec.

Source of inspiration

[TuringTest]

Science fiction has a tradition of writing about religious themes. Since SF is a frequent subject in narrative games, it would be a good starting point for asking (and even answering) religious questions.

profit for sure

[czarangelus]

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

Final Fantasy VII

[Digital_Quartz]

...hate it when the apparent outcome of a historical event can be changed by human interaction.

You obviously missed out on FF7. No part of the outcome of that game could be altered by human interaction, and it was one of the bestselling games in the world at the time.

RTS

[theREALMcCoy]

I think a Bible RTS would be pretty cool. Controling the Exodus from Egypt in an RTS fashion would be fun.

Nethack

[atomic-penguin]

Religion is a theme in NetHack. Haven't you ever #pray'ed to the RNG?

Re:Nethack

[dasunt]

Roguelikes often have a fleshed-out diety system.

Nethack's is rather primitive (the gods are more or less identical in their actions).

The roguelike "Dungeon Crawl" has a well-fleshed out deity system. For example, Xom, the god of chaos, doesn't care what the character does -- he just randomly awards/punishes. Trog, the god of berzerkers, hates it when you use magic. Sif Muna rewards magic casters.

Crawl is a fun (although extremely difficult) little game.

Re:Jesus vs the Terminator

[vertinox]

Yeah, I'd think the purists would be rather upset if you prevented Jesus's cruxifition or altered the timeline in which Jesus was never born.

You could however have fictional characters living in that time frame who interact with the main characters in cutscenes and then go off and do their own thing. Like Bob, who hears about Jesus and must make his way to Jeruselem and encouters mini-quests on the way.

However, I will always be highly suspect of any group that sells Religion for money wheather it be music, books, or video games. Most motivation tends to be with money rather than actual salvation.

If someone were to give these games away for free out of a labor of love then you have a bit more moral highground.

UNIX

[chris_mahan]

Someone once said that linux/unix is the ultimate text-based adventure. I suppose Zen would be its religion.

I guess the game could be called: "KISS, the Zen"

I would also say that playing this game will actually increase you intelligence, attention to detail, and ability to earn a respectable income.

Finally, playing "KISS, the Zen" would be frowned upon by parents (from the name alone), making it highly popular among smart rebellious kids.

# /me rolls 4d3.

A couple games worth mention...

[neostorm]

I think what this article really means to say is that there aren't many games based on positive, pro-religious propaganda.
Xenogears and Final Fantasy Tactics were two that had heavy religious overtones, and were done very well. There are a handful of games that use religion to enhance the story, so I don't think this articles talk of the "potential" between games and religion is very accurate.

Re:A couple games worth mention...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there really such a thing as "positive, pro-religious propaganda"?

Re:A couple games worth mention...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I guess that was kind of a redundant phrase, wasn't it...
What I meant to type was "...positive/pro-religious..."

Re:A couple games worth mention...

[mink]

You left out the one that IMO has the strongest treatment of religion Grandia II.

Already Done

[Ridgelift]

asked them what sort of game they would make if they were creating one with a religious theme

They already wrote that sort of game...

TETRIS

Ask anyone who's hooked how religiously they play the darned thing.

Homeworld

[Unordained]

The religion gets stripped out, but if you look at the Homeworld RTS games, they're pulling pretty strongly from middle-eastern religious themes (and music) -- the jewish diaspora, the hebrew/arab relationship, the trinity (christianity thrown in?), the struggle to find a home ... but it's not really approached from a religious perspective. It's much more "the story of the jews, but without god, and in space".

Besides -- you don't 'game' religion. Nothing about religion is predictable from a scientific point of view. If it were, people would be using prayer tactically to their advantage. Coding a game in which no results are ever guaranteed, nor even terribly predictable (don't even want to introduce the concept of probability that your prayer will be answered vs. the cost of praying) ... there's just nothing left. Random background noise, probability-wise? You can't "play" that -- there's no technique, no challenge. If anything, the game would teach you that you can do just fine without religion helping you. Oops.

So it winds up always being story-oriented. And you're not very free to change the story. So you wind up with games like "go find the animals for Noah's ark" ... which really isn't about religion, it's more like slapping a theme pack on top of a game like Tetris -- the artwork can be religious, but the game isn't.

Re:Homeworld

[patio11]

Remember Earthbound? With the completely random prayer effects? The first two times I had Paula Pray, my entire party died instantly to the effect. This was in the bad old days of SNES RPGing where that meant backing up hours and hours through the dungeon to the last save point in town. I concluded that God hated me and that I would never use the Pray ability again, so for the rest of the game I just used her regular, predictable heals and frying pan. I lived in fear of accidentally hitting the pray button in battle -- it happened maybe twice (once in the fight with Poo) and those were my most gut-wrenchingly scary moments in gaming ("My party! Nooooooooo! Oh, wait, heal for 8 damage. Phew, dodged a bullet there."). I wiped three times on the end boss because even though my little brother was telling me "You have to pray to beat him!" I was saying "No way you're going to trick me into praying! I've seen what happens!"

Re:Homeworld

[l3ert]

I once read in PC Gamer that the Homeworld developers where influenced by Battlestar Galactica quest for the thirteenth tribe. Battlestar Galactica itself containing many themes inspired from the Mormon religion.

As long as it's not EA

[sithsasquatch]

B/c I don't think most religous fundamentalists would want to "Challenge Everything".

How about...

[gmezero]

A game where you hunt down all forms of religious zelots/fundamentalists, be they christian, muselum, etc... and pop a cap in their ass. You could hunt down the suicide bomber before he blows, or track down the nut before he starts killing at an abortion clinic.

Heck we could even have it Deathrace 2000 style where you just run down all religious types you see when you're driving, like those "two guys on mountain bikes" types... Bonus, if you get them both in one shot.

Wow... this could be a whole new game "GTA: Down Wit' Religion" (pun intended).</sarcasm>

Sigh...

Am I the only one who thought about Joshua?

[Txiasaeia]

So here's the story: the Jews spend 40 years wandering around in the desert before they reach the promised land. Moses dies shortly before they enter, leaving Joshua in charge. Now, if you've actually read the book, you'd realise that it's all blood and gore: Yahweh commands the Jews to kill everybody and everything. Can we say RTS?

So they enter the promised land, call upon the power of Yahweh to do miraculous stuff (Walls of Jericho, battle at AI where the sun & moon stand still), and take over the land. Traditional RTS elements using real geograhical locations and a Biblical back-story. Age of the Promised Land, anybody?

The Spanish Inquisition

[Anonymous Coward]

The Latest First Person Gaming Experienz!!!

You be the Judge, the Jury, the Executioner!

Separate the Heretics and Infidels From The Believers!!!!

Call Forth Gods True Vengence!

** New Realistic 3D Effects **

Realistic looking "flames of perdition" particle graphics consume your devil worshipping Witches, Warlocks, Natural Philosophers and more!

New online "Bonfire of the Vanities Mode". You race other players to see who can collect the most priceless masterpieces and ancient philosophical manuscripts. Burn them all!

Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!

Whoops, got another one

[Txiasaeia]

I posted too soon, I suppose. An adventure game based on the life of Paul (post-conversion) would be pretty kick-ass too. He's gotta travel around the Mediterranean & spread the gospel.

Last one, I promise: take the episodic system of Eternal Darkness for the Cube and trace the lineage of Christ from Adam. Each "chapter" takes about an hour to complete and has an extremely focused task. I'm not creative enough to figure out what Adam would have to do, but Noah's got a boat, David's got lots of interesting stuff to do, and then you've got Solomon, Esther, Ruth, throw in a couple of prophets, and you've got yourself an interesting game based on the Tanakh. Dunno if you'd want to let the player control Christ, though, so maybe Peter or one of the other disciples?

Re:Whoops, got another one

[PakProtector]

Please, for the love of the Elder Gods, do not drag such a masterpiece of a game as Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem, which obviously borrowed so much from the Cthulhu mythos, down into the realm of 'Christianity.'

You know the truth about the Second Coming?
Jesus has to come back so Cthulhu can devour him along with all that lives.

IA! IA! CTHULHU FTHAGN!

Re:Whoops, got another one

[Txiasaeia]

I'm not talking about the plot, which is absolutely fascinating to me (even as a Christian), but about the form, or the mode, of the game. I don't know any other games that feature a similar episodic element where the player controls successive characters. If you don't like Christianity, that's your problem, but understand that there's nothing wrong with making a game about it, and if you're so adamantly anti-Christian (as your post seems to imply), then perhaps you shouldn't comment on a story about "How games and religion could mix."

Re:Whoops, got another one

[PakProtector]

I see you're as anti-sarcasm as I am anti-christianity. And I am not Anti-Christianity. I have no problem with the religion. Just with many of its adherants.

And I do agree. The game blew me away. An engrossing story and, what for me, atleast, was an entirely new form of play. Not to mention the fact that the game would screw with your head.

Re:Whoops, got another one

[elrous0]

if you're so adamantly anti-Christian (as your post seems to imply), then perhaps you shouldn't comment on a story about "How games and religion could mix."

In case you haven't noticed, Christianity isn't the only religion in the world.

But, you're right, there is nothing wrong with doing a Chrisitian video game. The problem is that when you Christians pick and choose what parts of the Bible to emphasize and which to conveniently ignore, you strip out all the parts that might actually make a compelling video game.

And even the duller passages you do emphasize are treated as a foregone conlusion not as any real moral choice. How can you make a interactive video game about events you absolutely believe DID happen EXACTLY as they were foretold and written?

Imagine a video game where you play Peter, for instance. Peter attempts to confront the Romans and one point with a knife. Jesus warns him not to, and he doesn't. If you were going to make that into a video game, Peter would have to have the option to take that advice (as he did in the Bible) or ignore it and attack them anyway (hence defying the Biblical rendition). Otherwise, it's not a video game, it's just a passive movie.

If you play Jesus and you don't have the option of choosing whether or not to make that sacrifice at the end, then the whole game has just been a lame-ass excercise in mindless tedium leading to a meaningless finale (since it was always a foregone conclusion, a movie where you already know the plot and ending before you even see it).

-Eric

Re:Whoops, got another one

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got a great idea for a single-person RPG with a religious theme:

You're a Roman soldier stationed in Jerusulem (sp?) at around 33 AD. Your assignment is to find and kill a rabble-rouser who has been stirring up trouble by curing blindness, raising the dead, etc. You start with 30 pieces of silver, a wooden cross, a hammer, and a few nails.

Re:Whoops, got another one

[Txiasaeia]

"In case you haven't noticed, Christianity isn't the only religion in the world."

I wasn't aware that Lovecraftianism was a religion, which is what the parent was (humourously) implying. And in case you didn't notice, my first post was about Judaism, *not* Christianity.

"But, you're right, there is nothing wrong with doing a Chrisitian video game. The problem is that when you Christians pick and choose what parts of the Bible to emphasize and which to conveniently ignore, you strip out all the parts that might actually make a compelling video game.

Every game designed picks and chooses what to put in their game and what to leave out. I guess you missed my first idea; you know, the RTS with the blood and gore and magic.

"Imagine a video game where you play Peter, for instance. Peter attempts to confront the Romans and one point with a knife. Jesus warns him not to, and he doesn't. If you were going to make that into a video game, Peter would have to have the option to take that advice (as he did in the Bible) or ignore it and attack them anyway (hence defying the Biblical rendition). Otherwise, it's not a video game, it's just a passive movie."

Why do you assume that this specific episode needs to occur just before Christ was arrested? But of course it's easier to criticise ideas than it is to come up with your own, I suppose.

"If you play Jesus and you don't have the option of choosing whether or not to make that sacrifice at the end, then the whole game has just been a lame-ass excercise in mindless tedium leading to a meaningless finale (since it was always a foregone conclusion, a movie where you already know the plot and ending before you even see it).

Did I mention anywhere that there should be a video game based on the life of Jesus, with the player controlling him?

Now, where exactly are you coming from? Have you played a game based on Christianity and were bored or what? Why do you assume that it's impossible to create an interesting game based on the bible, simply because it hasn't been done before? Since you've only leaped upon my very last idea, am I to assume that you at least found my previous two ideas to be semi-interesting?

Re:Whoops, got another one

[Txiasaeia]

Sorry, I mistook your sarcasm for sincerity. I've actually met people who seem to think that Lovecraft was writing holy writ rather than fiction, so forgive me for assuming that you were one of them...

Re:Whoops, got another one

[PakProtector]

It's quite okay. I am not one of them. I'm a discordian.

Yahweh!

[duncanbojangles]

I would totally play a game where you're the Old Testament God! Imagine all the cool stuff you get to do! You get to wipe out the entire populace of a planet, flood said planet, burn whole cities to the ground, and annoy a bunch of egyptians with plagues! It would be similar to SimCity, Civilization, and Fable :)

Re:Yahweh!

[Rakarra]

Sounds a lot like Populous!

That is easy.

[Zangief]

One based on Paradise Lost, by John Milton.

An all out war between heaven and hell, and the adventures of Satan to tempt humankind.

The main character is Satan, of course!

Religious!

Just start with the right quote

[TopShelf]

"I'm here to preach and chew bubble gum, and I'm all out of gum..."

The first step is not to preach.

[nunchux]

For a Christian game to be successful, the first two thing it should NOT do is preach. The second thing it shouldn't do is educate. Kids will sense both of these coming a mile away and run in the opposite direction.

And that's the biggest problem with most Christian entertainment, a total lack of subtlety. It doesn't have to be about hitting you over the head with the message. IMHO the best Christians live by setting an example, not by brow-beating you into submission.

Re:The first step is not to preach.

[brkello]

For a Christian game to be successful, the first two thing it should NOT do is preach. The second thing it shouldn't do is educate.

Sorry, I am sure this is just a typo...but it appears from this sentence that maybe a little education might be a good thing.

Re:The first step is not to preach.

[Anonymous Coward]

Education and religion? Isn't that a contridiction?

Re:The first step is not to preach.

[FLEB]

But, would it be a successful thing?

Re:The first step is not to preach.

[Anonymous Coward]

Um... wait... are you sure you were awake when you posted that? Ive played these games and I dont like them because they get to much on the preachy teachy thing. You get into that and trust me, NOBODY will like them.

Depends on how it's done.

[Rimbo]

Take Peanuts by Charles M Schulz and BC, for example. Both artists are/were extremely devout Christians. In the former comic, Schulz focused on making the comic funny first, and he uses his beliefs as a springboard towards a joke or a humorous situation, such as one comic where Charlie Brown's baseball teammates are babbling theology while Charlie Brown himself is standing on the mound, physically above them all, mentally below them, and with a "good grief" expression more accurately saying, "Uhm... can we get back to baseball?"

In the latter case, you see the comic used as a podium for lectures, for example a recent comic where Wiley's writing under his tree and writes how Darwin "made monkeys out of you and me."

Now in games, I think we've already seen religion done right: Ultima IV. Being "moral" within the game is not just context, but the end of the game itself, and in that case, it made for a better, more interesting and (most vitally) more fun game than its hack-n-slash predecessors in which the goal was to defeat the murderous villain by being more murderous than him/her. Its religion is not specifically Christian, but the Ultima series shows the general principle that you can make a fun game based on religion. Making a game fun for a different set of beliefs is just applying the Ultima IV-VI design principles to different specific dogmas.

Of course, it's all easier said than done, but that's why good designers make the big bucks.

Re:Depends on how it's done.

[TheWatchfulBabbler]

I'd also argue that Schulz understood, better than most, the human condition, while Wiley seems to only understand humans as caricatures. Peanuts is Bonhoeffer; B.C. is James Dobson.

Re:Depends on how it's done.

[Rimbo]

That's a good point, and it reflects the way they see Christianity as well.

Re:Depends on how it's done.

[Pan Sola]

Technically, Ultima was about ethicality. In various interviews, Richard Garriott has stressed his idea that ethicality can exist separately from morality.

Ethicality is secular, morality is religous.

In Ultima, becoming the Avatar is just becoming the shining example of maxing out each of the 8 virtues, which in turn were picked by the effectively-immortal king of the realm. No God, no religion.

But yeah, the techniques used in Ultima can be successfully transferred to a game about religion.

Re:Depends on how it's done.

[Rimbo]

In Ultima, becoming the Avatar is just becoming the shining example of maxing out each of the 8 virtues, which in turn were picked by the effectively-immortal king of the realm. No God, no religion.

He's right that there's a distinction between ethicality and morality; back to the subject, we're talking about a game where you're supposed to follow certain pre-defined principles, meditate at shrines by focusing on a rune while chanting a mantra and learn how the principles fit together to achieve an ultimate spiritual goal of enlightenment.

Yeah, real secular, that. The fact that there's no God doesn't mean there's no religion. See Buddhism.

Garriott can think what he wants, but what you did in Ultima IV was not about behaving ethically. Garriott was behaving ethically by making it, but your character in the game was following a moral, spiritual, religious path.

Unreal Tournament Mod

[jgoemat]

It's not a full game, but The Landover Baptist Church has already created the "True Christian® mod" for Unreal Tournament 2003 with a religious theme, check it out.

Timothy explained that there was still a bit of tweaking to do in order to put Jesus into a "god-mode" without allowing the other characters to be in "god-mode" as well.

How Games And Religion Could Mix...

[aneroid]

real life and games. one good reason not to do an ALL OUT religious game: people tend to be fanatics about religion more than anything else. and they get irrational about things that obviously don't mean any harm/ill-will.

imho, doom et al don't motivate kids to kill their classmates. but a game with a religious base is just asking for trouble...more than it's worth. in GTA, where u kill everyone: innocent ppl of various backgrounds and ethnicity's, prostitutes, cops, criminals, etc. it's all OK, it's not personal (and even then, it received complaints from various groups). but when u represent some sort of religious-someone killing ppl of other religions, it's very specific. asking for a boatload of trouble.

even if it's a peaceful game (like The Longest Journey which i played recently), religious leaders and followers may take offense to implications of religious unity/mixing and any kind of "religion X is better than religion Y"-attitude (prepend 'ppl of' for added effect).

so (assuming u wanted to avoid aforementioned issues) how interesting could a religious game be? all i can think of is educational games for kids.

Re:Jesus vs the Terminator

[FidelCatsro]

I do believe they would be rather pissed off if we had a "PASSION OF CHRIST" game , with such boss battles as, the "Jesus whip-o-mania " , or a light gun mini game of firing crucifixion nails.
(Or for those into Final fantasy) having a level 90 Jesus cast sodom on Pontious pilot , whilst st peter buffs up the party with his level 40 Fish and bread trick

Already been done...

[ConceptJunkie]

Bart: Whaddya got?... "Billy Graham's Bible Blaster?"
Rod: Keep firing; convert the heathens!
Bart: Got him!
Rod: No, you just winged him and made him a Unitarian.
Todd: Look out, Bart! A gentle Baha'i!
Bart: All right! Full conversion! Thanks guys, this really cheered me up.
Video: Second Coming! Reload, reload!

http://www.snpp.com/episodes/BABF10

Re:Games and religion? (Hey, look, a joke!)

[biryokumaru]

Of course it's been done. I mean, a game about Jesus? We already have tons of games where you kill zombies!

Game Type

[BlueLightSpecial]

I'd definately have to say that it'd be a first person shooter, set in WWII, Jesus- the one man nazi killing machine o wait..... thats medal of honor, minus the Jesus

Re:Game Type

[Chemical]

Well is already a "religious" FPS. Super Noah's Ark 3D was an unlicensed hack of Wolfenstein 3D for the SNES. Instead of killing Nazis though, you have to put rogue animals to "sleep".

There already is

[Anonymous Coward]

it's called counter-strike

Fnord:Makes total sense.

[Anonymous Coward]

What would Eris do... with a Golden Apple Corps?

It's all in the intent

[ashground]

Games as a tool for spreading religion doesn't work. It's exactly why I don't listen to much Christian music -- I hate listening to the 'salvation message' in every track on every CD (I'm saying this as a Christian who has worked at a Christian bookstore for a year -- there really is some good Christian music, but most of it is utter crap lyrically). People don't want to play a game that's trying to convert them.

On the other hand, religious video games can be fantastic. Final Fantasy Tactics, anyone? Love it or hate it, Xenogears?

"Christian" video games can be just fine. The problem is that most "Christian" publishers have the mentality that if it's not 'saving souls' it's not worth publishing. It's all about conversion. And I wish it wasn't so.

Re:It's all in the intent

[Tanmi-Daiow]

i totally agree. I play drums in my praise band at church. That is the only time ill listen to praise music. its all the same. Afterwards i go home to my rock, mostly secular. I was talkin to a guy in a christian rock band, and he said he did the same thing. If you like a band, listen to them. Doesnt matter if they are preachin what you agree with.

Re:It's all in the intent

[hobbesx]

Also agree, play drums and (ex)praise band. I think 'eat the meat and spit out the bones' fits pretty well here. Most of what I listen to is secular, but I have trouble listening to the more overt anti-saviour songs from Alice and Chains and the like. Still, I enjoy a number of 'Christian' artists, although I get a few looks when the playlist cycles from Rage Against the Machine to Warren Barfield to Christafari to Pearl Jam to MC Frontalot.

To paraphrase a South Park quote

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Yeah! Or, we could NOT mix them.

Seriously, no thanks.

Re:To paraphrase a South Park quote

[hobbesx]

Also, I don't like sports games or John Madden. So can we stop mixing these too? I hate being forced to buy them all the time.

</sarcasm> Seriously though, this is no better than the Religious Right protesting games that they don't want to see made. I hope you're not too offended when you see the cover of a game you might not like at the store...

Super 3D Noah's Ark

[tepples]

Super Noah's Ark 3D was an unlicensed hack of Wolfenstein 3D for the SNES.

"Unlicensed" by Nintendo but "licensed" by Id Software. The Super NES version of Super 3D Noah's Ark looked like a Game Genie accessory or a Sonic & Knuckles cartridge because it used a "passthrough" for the Super NES's improved lockout chip that didn't succumb to the -5V trick that Wisdom Tree used in its NES games. The player put any standard game carrying a Nintendo Seal into the top slot and plugged the top into the Super NES. It is known that Id licensed the Wolf3d engine to Wisdom Tree; it is thought that Id did so as a protest against the censorship of Wolfenstein 3D.

Re:Super 3D Noah's Ark

[mink]

So Christians could not make games and obey the law, they had to break the law and engage in piracy and IP violation? Is this still going on?
Either they were not christians and were only in it for the money, or they really need to re-evaluate the whole thing about mans law on earth.

Obvious

[Dissonant]

I challenge you to find any real world religion well represented by fictional book...

Umm...the Bible?

The problem is innate to the medium

[Dissonant]

I can't speak for any religions outside of the "big three", but one of the central themes of Christianity, Judaism and Islam is that the will of God is ultimately unopposable. Humanity is helpless, and everything that happens is absolutely preordained. The stories encoded in the base texts of the religions happened as they did because they absolutely could not have happened any other way. Basically, there is nothing anyone can do to change what's to come, we have no control over what happens to us.

This is not a very good match for a medium whose sole distinuishing feature is its interactivity.

Re:The problem is innate to the medium

[Anonymous Coward]

The will of God is unopposable, indeed, but I think in most cases he tends not to micromanage. In other words, certain things may be ordained, but much is left for us to do with as we wish. According to my Christian beliefs anyway.

Re:The problem is innate to the medium

[hobbesx]

I think you're confusing a lack of control of consequenses(sp!?) for a lack of free will.

Unintentional Treason

[chudgoo]

It's always amusing when they inadvertantly help the enemy...

I could see how this would make pretty good games

[Lothars]

I really could see that depending on the type of games they make, it could really be interesting of course it really depends on the take of the game and the type of it as well I would like to see some religious games, might actually be pretty cool of course though it could be terrible as well We will see if it goes anywhere.

WWJP?

[OpenSourceOfAllEvil]

Most comments here seem to be missing the point. Any group of people that can be categorized is a potential market. If you can name a large demographic then there are advertising campaigns and products that target them.

It's not about whether you would play such a game or even what you think about the people that would play one. It's about who is going to be the first to successfully tackle that market.

Religion + videogames = disservice to both

[syntaxglitch]

Religion in videogames is a terrible idea. Go play a random RPG and watch them babble philosophy that make the Matrix's sophmoric concepts look deep and well-explained in comparison, and spew crappy arm-chair psychology as part of 'character development'. Does anyone REALLY want that level of shoddy, shallow treatment applied to religion?

Re:Religion + videogames = disservice to both

[Pluvius]

It already has been, in those very RPGs you describe. Try playing through the "crucifixion" scene in Xenogears with a straight face.

Rob

Re:Religion + videogames = disservice to both

[syntaxglitch]

Yes, and 90% of the time the "religion" in those games is just a bunch of silly trappings with no meaningful relevance to real religions. Just a lot of symbolism and some weird complex about anything that feels Catholic being evil. Having a lot of crosses and references to weird mystic sects like Gnosticism and Kabbalism does not a religious story make.

Besides, the religions in such games are almost always central to the storyline in a way that involves you meeting the relevant deities, usually as villains. This is rather absurdly irrelevant to real religion, because despite the delusions of fundamentalist extremists, real people don't get that kind of certainty.

Let me know when a game deals with religion in a way that portrays the experience of faith in the real world, then we can talk. Failing that, it's cheesy nonsense.

I want to see...Preist: The FPS!!!

[LazyEmc2]

Can you successfully feed the ENTIRE congregation communion? Can YOU sprinkle the masses in holy water? Incense and alter boys, sore knees and marathon Easter masses. Can you handle the robes? Can you handle the collar? Feel the pressure and don't slur the Latin the sheep are counting on you! Preist: The FPS is the hot new title from EA and Vatican City. Coming Q4 2005!

I know one way...

[Anonymous Coward]

Shoot em all and let God sort em out.

Another good recomendation.

[Zangief]

Breath of Fire 2.

Big three

[owlman17]

The "big three" religions in games/game-programming: Linux, Windows, OS/X.

Surely it is pretty easy

[mike_sucks]

Just create a first-person shooter called "Redemption" or something suitably generic and when you start it up, it prompts you for your religion of choice and presents a different skin depending on which you choose.

Choose "Christian" and you get to go around killing muslims. Choose "Muslim" and you get to go around killing christians. Choose "Scientology" and you get to go around porking teenagers (hi Tom!). Etc.

Who says selling shit in the Temple is bad, anyway?

Easy...and not

[xTown]

I'm assuming, as most of us seem to be (and as the interviewees do), that what they're really talking about is not a religious game, but a Christian game.

On the one hand, it is indeed easy: because so much of the Bible is inherently story-based, it's quite easy to come up with ideas for games. Noah alone provides a lot of gaming fodder, from a "Concentration"-type game where you pair up animals for saving on the Ark all the way to an Ark simulator where you have to lay out the pens for the animals and keep them fed, sort of like "Zoo Tycoon" in a very small space.

On the other hand, it is not at all easy. Designing a game that will appeal to Catholics and Protestants alike would have to be tricky. Also, and this is something that they touch on in TFA, you have the problem that evangelicals will condemn you to hell because a game by its nature will either glorify the individual over God, or will be outright blasphemy by making you play AS God. It's the same problem some Christians have with Christian rock: giving glory to the performer, rather than to God. Books and movies are okay for them because books and movies can directly praise God without too much emphasis on the writers and performers.

Then there's the whole issue of "thought equals deed" that a lot of fundamentalists and evangelicals espouse--the same idea that they use to condemn D&D and other paper-and-pen RPGs, the idea that if you conceive of it, you are just as morally responsible as if you have actually done it. It's philosophically bankrupt, and totally destroys any notion of free will, but there you have it.

I think that ultimately, the reason that there aren't a lot of Christian video games is that there's no need. The target audience doesn't buy video games, and non-evangelicals who do buy video games would buy mainstream games that don't actually suck.

Re:Easy...and not

[rohlfinator]

"I think that ultimately, the reason that there aren't a lot of Christian video games is that there's no need. The target audience doesn't buy video games, and non-evangelicals who do buy video games would buy mainstream games that don't actually suck."
I don't know how common this is, but my youth group (at an evangelical church) was pretty big into video games. My youth pastor was a self-proclaimed Halo fan, and they organized several Halo LAN parties to be held at the church. I just visited my uncle's church, a Southern Baptist church in Arkansas, and they had an entire room in the basement dedicated to gaming, decked out with an Atari, NES, Genesis, and SNES.

A lot of people here seem to think that all Christians are opposed to video games, simply because of the few outspoken people who make the news. From my experience, there's a huge market of Christians that play video games. Whether or not that translates to people who would buy "Christian video games" is a different story. I could see a small segment of games taking off if they were tastefully done, non-offensive, but not too preachy, and they'd have to be relatively high-quality. It would take some time, but I think one good development studio could make something work.

Re:Easy...and not

[xTown]

I'm Episcopalian myself; I probably erroneously conflated "evangelical" and "fundamentalist."

Anyway, I think we're kind of making the same point: Christians who play video games play video games regardless of what they're about. In a sense, it really doesn't make sense to even say "Christian gamer." It's like "Christian skateboarder" or something; religion doesn't really enter into it.

And you're right, well-done Christian-themed games would probably sell. I actually kind of liked my Noah's Ark/Zoo Tycoon idea. But...there's also no point: in your case, you've got Halo LAN parties, for crying out loud--who's going to give up Halo for "Ark Builder"?

Anyway, it seems to me that the people who are REALLY REALLY against it would try to ruin it for the rest of us, just because It's What They Do.

Re:Easy...and not

[rohlfinator]

That's the thing: Christian games so far have always been about Sunday School messages tacked on to an already existing game. And in that case, you're right, people will probably choose the original.

But games like the "Left Behind" based game suggested in the article could be pretty cool if done properly. Not every Biblical theme needs to be Noah's Ark; a game set during the Apocalypse could be appealing to both Christians and non-Christians alike.

I think the best direction for Christian games would be to make solid, fun games without the gratuitous violence and sex that are so common in games today. The games don't necessarily need to preach a message, but they could simply feature characters who act more Christian-like in their adventure. Placing the game in a biblical setting might help, but it wouldn't be necessary. Designing a game like this would be a really risky move for any developer, but if the game had acceptable graphics, gameplay, and polish compared to other games of the time, I think it could work.

Re:Jesus vs the Terminator

[superpulpsicle]

Oh man that game would be a top seller. Can't wait till the sequel. What would the Add-on pack come with? New weapons such as chain whip with a morning star. Bonus stage in hell where you fight mr diablo himself.

difference

[Xionen]

I am not a dev, and/or a programmer, only the player of sorts. Consumer if you will. Understanding the reasons why anyone would ask if religion and games would mix is useless. Every gamer that falls into the MMO life wants options. That is all. An option to everything you do so that you're warrior doesn't have the same axe as the next warrior. Adding religion, real or made up, is only another factor to options. Then again, I am just a dungeon crawler, looking for items and more knowledge, and always will be. if I can add faith, and skills by faith, then so be it I will worship all day if I have to, whatever makes me a better ranger...

Evangelist Tycoon

[Anonymous Coward]

...rake in as many dollars as you can, stealing money from the sick and the poor, using and misrepresenting the Bible, dazzling them with an array of religious words.

You can adjust the AI level if your crowd is gullible or not. You play Benny Hinn.

This will be a good tycoon game!

Christian rock?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't how popular that is, but as far as religious music, I think Rakim is about the only thing that needs to be mentioned to prove that it can be good. Very good.

It's Easier Than You Think

[DarkZero]

I think the main problem with Christian games is that they're all focused on being pseudo-educational, non-violent budget games that won't offend anyone. If they got over this hangup and made the game about fighting vampires, demons, zombies, or something else that rectifies religious pacifism with entertaining gameplay, making a fun game that has a message behind it wouldn't be very hard.

Just look at Metal Gear Solid. Extremely fun game, but it had a definite message that it was trying to get across. It was trying to make the statement that things like "genetic destiny" and "it's nature, not nurture" are absolute crap, and every conflict between Solid Snake and Liquid Snake got that message across perfectly. I don't see why it would be hard for someone to make a game similar in tone to Castlevania that just happened to have a strong Christian message behind it.

But no one will make that game, because they don't want to "spread the word" or even make a fun game. They want to line their pockets with money from devout Christians who believe that if any form of entertainment includes demons and such, even as just the bad guys, it's "the devil's work" and must not be purchased.

Or Darklands

[Moraelin]

I seem to remember an old (and buggy) Microprose game called Darklands. Based in late medieval Germany, and based on the society, equipment and beliefs of that time. E.g., you didn't cast spells, you prayed to some saint, or mixed explosive potions as an alchemist, or such.

Was a bit _too_ much of a Bible lecture for my taste, but still, it made a nice change from the endless stream of me-too D&D clones. I mean, I'm not against RPG's derived (directly or indirectly) from Tolkien's work, but there are lots of those already. I like something original now and then, and the RL mythology of pretty much any nation can be just as diverse and interesting.

I'd like to see more games like that based on other religions too. For example, how about one based in ancient Egypt? Or ancient Greece? Both had _plenty_ of mythology, beliefs in magic, a primitive science, etc. Should be enough to fill a complex RPG and then some.

Try Valkyrie Profile

[Moraelin]

No, seriously, try Enix's "Valkyrie Profile". That's one video game which is thoroughly good and entertaining and it's based on a religion. Norse religion, to be precise. (As the title might suggest, you actually play as a Valkyrie.)

Now it's not really "well represented" in the sense of being a treatise on it or anything. It's a rather liberal interpretation of the sagas. (E.g., their Valkyrie fights and trains the Einherjar, rather than being just a taxi to Valhalla. E.g., their version of Ragnarok and especially the best ending one, is rather unorthodox.) And they did mix some Japanese stuff into it too.

Well, probably that's why it's a good game. They didn't try to preach or convert you. I doubt that the fine Japanese game designers were even believers in Asatro anyway. They were just trying to make a good game, and the Norse mythology just provided an original setup for that.

Re:Jesus vs the Terminator

[Moraelin]

"You could however have fictional characters living in that time frame who interact with the main characters in cutscenes and then go off and do their own thing. Like Bob, who hears about Jesus and must make his way to Jeruselem and encouters mini-quests on the way."

Reminds me of a joke.

So on TV Moskow during Communism they have this show on the aniversary of Lenin's birthday. Including an interview with comrade Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov, a simple man who's talked to Lenin no less than three times.

Reporter: "So tell us, how did you meet comrade Lenin the first time."

Ivan: "Ah, yes, it was right before the revolution, and I was a simple farmer near Moskow. And one night this traveler knocks at my door and asks if he can sleep at my house for the night. I didn't know it was Lenin, noone had heard of him yet. So I'm thinking... hmm... if I say 'no', it's night, it's cold, there are wolves and bandits out there, that's not a nice thing to do. If I say 'yes', how do I know he's not some thief or worse? So I say, 'oh, fuck off!'"

Reporter: "Ahem, yeah, ok, let's skip to the second time you've met comrade Lenin then"

Ivan: "Ah, right, I was in Moskow selling vegetables at the market when all hell breaks loose. There's shooting and screams, and everyone's talking about some revolution, and this group comes running and bumps into me. And this guy, he was comrade Lenin, says, 'Please my good man! The Czar's soldiers are after us! Help us hide and regroup before they catch us!' So I'm thinking... hmm, if I say 'no', I might well have this guy's life on my conscience. If I say 'yes', well, the Czar's soldiers might well take mine. So I say, 'oh, fuck off!'"

Reporter: "Ahem, well, we're running out of time, so why don't you tell us how the third time went?"

Ivan: "Oh, right, right. So it was after the revolution, I had moved into town, and I'm selling newspapers. So this black car stops and comrade Lenin steps out and says, 'Ah, I know you. You don't happen to remember meeting me before, do you?' So I'm thinking... if I say 'no', he'll know I'm lying. If I say 'yes', I might well regret it. So I say, 'oh, fuck off!'"

Yup, I can see how that would work for a "Bob meets Jesus" game too ;)

Game : Jade Empire

[Anonymous Coward]

Goal : save the world - as usual
Mean : Can be good (Open Palm) or evil (Closed Hand) and you'll have some advantages and deficiencys according to your play style.

Not truly Wheel of Life, but not so far....

You're missing the point

[mark_jabroni]

It's similar to when liberals decided they needed a talk radio station to counteract "hugely popular" conservative talk radio.

The reason conservative talk radio was so popular was that there weren't many other news outlets that didn't kowtow to liberals, let alone cater to conservatives. "Air America", last I heard, was struggling.

Similarly, you have to ask yourself ... why was a christian movie like The Passion of the Christ so popular? And why are there christian rock bands? Why is there christian fiction?

It isn't because christians, in general, feel like they need their own specialized forms of entertainment. It's because common elements of popular movies, rock, and fiction are antithetical to christian beliefs, if not downright disrespectful.

Games, however, don't really have the same problem. The developers of WoW might feel that christianity, christians, and christian values suck, but I have no idea one way or the other. It never comes up. Why play a christian version of WoW when the original rocks and it doesn't insult me?

And if something with great gameplay does happen to be pretty raw (GTA), there will be poor-quality tame imitations anyway.

Re:You're missing the point

[Moraelin]

"It isn't because christians, in general, feel like they need their own specialized forms of entertainment. It's because common elements of popular movies, rock, and fiction are antithetical to christian beliefs, if not downright disrespectful."

In other words, "It's not that X wants a different Y, it's that existing Y is unsuited for X". Uh, right. There must be a subtle difference there that completely escapes me.

Re:You're missing the point

[mark_jabroni]

It should be :

It's not that X wants a different Y, it's that existing Z is insulting to X.

Y is the superset of Z.

Re:Jesus vs the Terminator

[metamatic]

You could however have fictional characters living in that time frame who interact with the main characters in cutscenes and then go off and do their own thing.

You mean like Monty Python's Life of Brian? Yes, nothing controversial to Christians there...

There's a lot of sex in the Bible!

[Anonymous Coward]

This could really work in the games market because of the sheer amount of sex in many religious works (especially far eastern) --- perhaps something like a more porn-based version of GTA: Vice City, with everyone begatting everyone else.

Behaviour was a lot less restrained in those days though, so if you wanted to be authentic then the age limits and other taboos on sex would have to disappear. I'm pretty sure that that would cause major problems -- religious people want a cleansed version of reality, not a true depiction of how it really was.

Blatant Error In Summary.

[NewStarRising]

"But the video game industry has so far ignored the topic of religion."

I play:
Pharoah (God-On-Earth, charged with ensuring the God's-In-Heaven get enough worship).
Black'n'White (God-Game).
Populous (God-Game)
Civilisation (Charts progress of religious worship)
Most RPG-type games (especially medieval/Fantasy) have their own religions.
(Pauses before mentioning Star Wars/Jedi...)
and many more.
Even Carmageddon has a "Hell" level ...
Haven't seen SimChurch yet ...

Games have addressed Religion.
It is Religion that has not addressed Video Games.

Why not, instead of trying to get games-writers to include (your choice of) Religion, get your religious people to write games.

Let's clarify the question

[MrRoarkeLovesTattoo]

Is it a question of why there are no Christian games or why there are no religious games? Religions include Hinduism, Pagans, Wiccan, Islam, and hundreds of others! Religion is in dozens of games which have already been mentioned, however if you want a "Devil vs. Jesus fight for your soul" kind of a game it hasn't been developed although it might be kind of cool to play. The Devil could use drugs, sex and rock n roll as his weapons while Jesus fought back with the magic tricks (i.e. "miracles") he made so famous in the Chrisitan Bible.

Final Fantasy VII

[agraupe]

The whole game is pretty much based entirely around mysticism and spirituality. It's just not the kind of religion that Americans like.

Re:Jesus vs the Terminator

[xilet]

They should set it up to use the DDR pad.

Shin Megami Tensei did it

[Turn-X Alphonse]

Shin Megami Tensei puts you in the middle of a war between Heaven and Hell. Japan is ruined in some way (as usual) and you pick what side you take and attempt to survive/escape/whatever.

Most major religions are featured, for example the Christians are sadistic morale high grounders. "You side with us or we kill you" types. Total control freaks.

In the second game if you took the Chaos path God was even the last boss.

Untill recently none of them were translated but they get a lot of hype in Japan. It didn't do too bad so hopefully the rest will come.

I wouldn't mind.

[BaudKarma]

I'd buy a religious-themed game if it was fun. I just have a feeling that if a company sets out to make a Christian game, the fun part will take back seat to the Getting out the Message part.

But wouldn't a MMORPG with a reincarnation theme be cool? You'd have free reign to shoplift, steal, PK whatever. But when you died, your good deeds would be balanced against your sins. If you were good, you come back as a priest or a warrior or something. If you were bad, you come back as a peasant or a slave or a dung beetle.

Doom anyone?

[blueboy31]

I can't believe I read through the whole discussion and didn't find at least one reference to Doom or Doom II. What isn't Christian about walking through a portal into Hell and proceeding to kill every demon and evil spirit in sight?

Am I the only one who noticed this?

[jeblucas]

Game Over column talked with game developers (including id Software CEO Todd Hollenshead and Diablo co-creator Bill Roper) about the reasons behind this

Yeah. Let's ask the guy who made a game WITH THE DEVIL IN IT why there aren't more Christian games. Just because Jesus wasn't walking around doesn't mean the game wasn't steeped in religious themes. Christian ones at that.

Re:Jesus vs the Terminator

[FidelCatsro]

Thank you , now i have an image of richard simmons in my head .
The Richard Simmons Jesus whip-a-thon work out DDR simulation
step one two one two one two , whip those abs . Disco boogie

Re:Jesus vs the Terminator

[xilet]

Gotta get the right soundtrack to that, maybe a remix of some of creed layed over the weather girls.

Religion doesn't mix with most things

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

Not to offend anyone, but religion is one of those things that you should keep to yourself.

Religion and politics, religion in school, religion in conversation are all kind of major don'ts. The problem is that religion is TOO emotionally connected and varied. One person takes it very seriously, while another is more open. Wars are, after all, started over religion

Looking for baby stuff to buy for my future neice or nephew, I came across a plush toy that, when triggerd, would recite a prayer. They are called prayer pals, and it made me cringe. Religion just should never be forced onto someone, especially a young child.

Concepts like using games or toys to promote religion in general is based on a small group of people looking to impose THEIR beliefs on others, and looking to make a buck out of it as well. This is the worst form of biased marketing.

Let people discover religion for themselves, let it be a process of self discovery, and rather then forcing a young child to think like you do, help them to develop their own opinions about life and religion, and if they want to find out more information, use books and talk to people rather then buying a gimmicky game or toy

Religion is personal, eReligion is a horrendous concept!

Limitations of people who don't celebrate religion

[open_minded_2002]

I am sorry die Welte. What else can I say. I ask for forgiveness by the world the kind Jesus gave us. Please give me a clean sheet like he did all of us. This feeling everynight I go with as I build a computer says get another one. Yet when I wake in the morning a rock in my heart says not to let go. I love you programme. I love you. I am begging you. I am begging you. You know world it is true. I am on my knees I beg. Please Lord I kiss your' feet. I am so sorry let the girl you knew in the begining shine her grace. Please don't go.

Re:Jesus vs the Terminator

[mink]

You will need an eye toy for the whip action part.

Martyrdom

[tepples]

So Christians could not make games and obey the law, they had to break the law and engage in piracy and IP violation?

Nintendo of America, which at the time Wisdom Tree was getting started held "market power" over video game consoles in the United States, had a policy of excluding all religious content from titles published on its systems. Even the Castlevania series was expurgated in North America. PCs were still too expensive for most families to afford. What platform would you have suggested?

Either they were not christians and were only in it for the money, or they really need to re-evaluate the whole thing about mans law on earth.

Christians obey man's law except when man's law directly conflicts with God's law. Christianity, especially early Christianity, has a tradition of civil disobedience called "martyrdom". Besides, Wisdom Tree's parent company at the time was Color Dreams, which had successfully defended a lawsuit from Nintendo.