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Got Spyware? Throw out the Computer!
geeber writes "The New York Times (reg. required) has an article about a new response to spyware - throw out the computer and buy a new one. The notion is new computers can be had for $400 so it's a cost effective and 'rational response.'" From the article: "While no figures are available on the ranks of those jettisoning their PC's, the scourge of unwanted software is widely felt. This month the Pew group published a study in which 43 percent of the 2,001 adult Internet users polled said they had been confronted with spyware or adware, collectively known as malware. Forty-eight percent said they had stopped visiting Web sites that might deposit unwanted programs on their PC's.
Moreover, 68 percent said they had had computer trouble in the last year consistent with the problems caused by spyware or adware, though 60 percent of those were unsure of the problems' origins. Twenty percent of those who tried to fix the problem said it had not been solved; among those who spent money seeking a remedy, the average outlay was $129."
Surely you could at least just reformat the harddrive?
Throwing out the whole PC seems a bit excessive..
Curiosity was framed. Ignorance killed the cat.
Yeah... then your $400 new computer is going to get infected, are you going to throw it out and buy yet another? Average Joes don't want to run Linux, because their programs won't run on it (if they even know about Linux in the first place, chances are, they don't). Mac Minis don't count, because they're over $400. Hence, whoever wrote TFA could use an extra helping of logic.
I knew the hardware companies were installing windows for a reason, repeat sales.
...that once you throw out that old PC, remember to replace it with a Macintosh. Problem solved.
Reminder: Apple owns 1/255th of the internet.
Of course, when you throw out the PC, you then have to purchase a new copy of the operating system. In 99% of cases this is Windows. So you reduce the incentive for Microsoft to fix the spyware problem; in fact, you reward them for not fixing it! Quite brilliant! In fairness to Microsoft, Windows now does have a pretty good resistance to spyware, IF you run as user. The problem is that most people don't know what this means, how to do it, or anything of the sort. Education is the only solution. Note that I declined to make a "??? PROFIT!" joke in this post.
apterous.org
Lazy/stupid people driving the IT economy ...
Still crawling to use a computer. Computers will soon look like fucking game consoles or TVs... people juste aren't into customization and advanced features. Sad but true. Technology has advanced to a point where average human intelligence begins to fail to keep up. -- moded -1 for despise ?
\u262D = \u5350
Stop using IE and switch to Firefox.
This is not the sig you are looking for...
Don't tell anybody! I'm counting on this new idea to cause a glut in the market of used PC's. I can pick them up real cheap for extra Linux boxen.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
And frankly, if you're spending $400 on a PC, the GPU is not going to be able to run many cutting-edge games anyway. So it's hard to see what a MacMini couldn't do for the average home user that a $400 POS Wintel box could...
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
Anyway, do brand computers like Dell even come with Windows installation CDs?
The owls are not what they seem
...how many continued their stupid practices, so they were instantly reinfected? I've seen people reinstall the exact same crapware after a clean-up, because that was stuff they "wanted". With that kind of model, your new machine will be infected instantly.
Besides, hardware is only a tiny fraction of it. Transferring all data, installing all programs and configuring everything to the way you are used to, that is what takes time. Even with a pre-installed Windows, people want all their various gadgets (one driver CD each, which they can't find), e-mail, bookmarks etc.
The only upside of that is that your old computer can serve as your back-up until you transfer it to the new one. Helluva expensive way to buy back-up on, though.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
If you don't know how to clean your computer and it's cheaper to throw it away, please find some charity or way to make your computer available to those that can't even afford one.
Probably their new owner will be willing to do the cleaning job or won't have internet connection to make spyware such a 'big' problem.
EOF
throw out the pc and buy a mac maybe but throw out the pc and buy annother cheap POS pc thats just stupidity. if you go out and buy a car and acid rain eats all the paint off and your car falls apart do you go and buy the exact same one? hell no you go buy an acid rain proof car.
Don't throw them out. Donate them to any of the number of PC refurbishment and training charities that you'll find. They can always use good gear.
Average lifespan of a windows computer - 4 minutes
:-)
Average lifespan of a BSD computer 10 years.
So the choice is between a computer that turns into a zombie in 4 minutes, or a one that keeps on dying for 10 years is it?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
The best solution I have ever seen is a tech walks into your office with a CD, Ctrl-Alt-Delete - boot to CD-ROM, enters your user ID and walks away saying keep the CD for next time you infect your machine. It boots from the CD re-installing the entire system.
Users hate it as they store stuff on the local drive but soon learn corporate no-tolerance policy for keeping critical data on the local drive and loading unapproved often unlicensed software. The raw fact still remains, 90% of the corporate spyware issues can be tracked back to the users (mis)behavior.
Tossing out the computer prematurely has several disadvantages, the logistics of disposal, acquisition and software licensing. It is unlikely replacing the system with the same Windows operating system is going to change much. Mind you if the replacement was a locked down system where the user could not load software.... That would have some obvious benefits.
Yeah, when her winxp computer got sogged up with spyware, after weeks of attempts to clean it up, she got rid of it and bought another computer;
A Mac.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
This means more people buying Mac Minis, and more free year-old computers for the Linux community to develop, test, and play on. Bring on the competition for the two best alternatives to Microsoft's hegemony.
Built a new windows box for my mom a couple weeks back (no linux griping, she needs applications that run under windows), and after everything was fully set-up and configured, I used a popular disk imaging program to create my own "emergency restore partition" on the drive.
So if it really tanks after a year or two, it's just a matter of rebooting and pressing a few keys before windows begins to load in order to completely recover the system. Of course if the HD crashes, we're back to square-one, but otherwise I figure it was a smart move...
N.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
Or switch to any other operating system (e.g. Mac or Linux) and not have to deal with any of that to begin with!
Honestly, I can't understand why people think using Windows is okay just because it's possible to "fix" it. It shouldn't be broken in the first place!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Before the subject gets taken out of context, let me explain. Reading the article, almost all the examples given are "my 4 year old Dell" or "my 4 year old HP." Four whole years ago, Windows ME was the most recent hunk of junk to come out of Redmond, so it wouldn't surprise me if all these repeat infections are occuring on Win9x systems. Also, machines of that era generally shipped with 64 or 128mb of RAM.
As long as the computers are running Win9x, they will undoubtedly become reinfected, as Microsoft will not update Internet Explorer with the same security level as it has with WinXP SP2. Thus, the only real way to ensure enough protection is to upgrade the operating system to the more secure XP. The upgrade itself costs on average $109, but it would run too slow to be usable on 64 or 128mb memory. So the memory should be upgraded as well, to a minimum of 256mb. At my shop, the labor to install everything would end up around $100. So you're looking at $300 to secure a 4 year old machine while maintaining usability. At that point, wouldn't it make more sense just to format the old machine, and use it as a dedicated word processor, and not let it touch the internet, while all Internet tasks are done on a new, faster, more secure system?
The article doesn't make it clear, but it seems the focus is those people still running on legacy hardware and software, accessing modern services online. Legacy software is far more easily infected than newer systems protected by an updated anti-virus and service pack 2. The article is not saying to throw out your 6 month old Dell and buy the same thing again, or even a 1 or 2 year old system.
Credentials: I've worked in a computer shop cleaning viruses and spyware for the past 4 years. Since the introduction of XP SP2, I've seen a dramatic decrease in repeat customers with re-infections once a machine is properly cleaned, updated, and patched. (With the exception of those who's kids download Kazaa as soon as they get the machine home, despite numerous warnings).
I'd deck a punk for it.
The script kiddies and the crooks who build zombie networks are morally equivalent to arsonists.
Microsoft is morally equivalent to a contractor who insists on building houses out of balsa wood and flash paper, while telling the lie that the next one won't be flammable at all.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Granted, I expect you to ignore me since you profit from people not knowing about this option...
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
People buy new PCs not necessarily because they have spyware or spam bots - many would not realise it. They just find their PC is slow so they think they need a new, faster one.
Even if they knew they had spyware, they would not have a clue how to remove it anyway. They might "rationalise" a new PC with arguments about the cost of their time, but that is just a comfort factor thrown in. Maybe they fancied a new PC and this is an excuse to the wife.
I once worked in a research lab. One day someone building electronics dropped a resistor on the floor. Four of us, professional engineers, then spent the next hour debating whether or not it was cost effective for one of us to spend 5 seconds picking it up. I argued that it would take just almost as long to reach for a new one from the rack. I don't remember if it was picked up in the end.
Such debates are sterile - in the end you argue yourself into never doing anything.
$129 is the upgrade price for Tiger
Nope. There is no "upgrade" pricing for Tiger. Your $129 gets you the whole OS.
Try installing it on a computer that didn't come with some version of MacOS to begin with.
Umm... Every Macintosh comes with the current version of Mac OS as of the date of its manufacture. Are you trying to install it on some machine that didn't come from Apple?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
While you're at it, if you ever have car problems, just chuck the damn thing and buy a new one! Cars are so cheap nowadays, it's more cost-efficient to buy a new car than to fix your current one, what with car virii and over-priced, shitty mechanics and whatnot.
This works for me. I buy a $500 car about once a year, for cash. Last friday when I thought the transmission went out, I was ready to walk away with no hard feelings. Turned out to be the axle, fixable for $235. If it "crashes" or "burns", or, more likely, gets towed away by the auto pirates, i'm not over a barrel.
Similarly, it makes more sense to buy a new toaster from walmart for $10 than to take the 1950s-era toaster for repair.
The average consumer drives a computer that's at least 2 years old. $400 to replace it, and hand down the old one to cousin timmy or to www.virtualscavengers.com, is reasonable. I'm spending ~ 400/yr on broadband, might as well get a machine that can handle it. This one's a $100 P2. Sometime this year I'll upgrade to a $25 P3.
I run firefox, norton, spybot, adaware, and date a geek who can fixxor it if i catch some malware.
1) Go to the HP site and download the freakin drivers.
2) Go to Fry's or online and buy a freakin NAT router/firewall for like $20. This will block the worms until you can get the updates installed.
This hosts file is updated regularly, and after putting it on a box you will find that adaware needs not be run anymore. And you block lots of ad sites as well. Why this isn't a more common simply solution I'm not sure.
GEEK: Bring out your obsolete boxen!
Bring out your obsolete boxen over here!
[clang] Bring out your obsolete boxen over here!
[clang] Bring out your obsolete boxen over here!
[clang] Bring out your obsolete boxen over here!
[clang] Bring out your obsolete boxen over here!
NETCRAFT: Ah! Good, Good! Here's one for you -- and here's your one gig of porn.
*BSD: I'm not obsolete!
GEEK: What?
NETCRAFT: 'S Nothing -- here's your one gig of porn now.
*BSD: I'm not obsolete, I'm not!
GEEK: Oy, what's this here? He says he's not obsolete!
NETCRAFT: Oh, Yes, Yes, he is.
*BSD: I'm not!
GEEK: He isn't obsolete.
NETCRAFT: Yes, Well, he will be soon, you see. He's dying.
*BSD: No I'm not! I'm gaining market share!
NETCRAFT: Oh no, you're not -- you'll be stone dead and useless in a moment.
GEEK: Oh, I can't take him like that -- it's against regulations y'know.
*BSD: I don't want to go in the dumpster! I don't want to go in the dumpster!
NETCRAFT: Oh, don't be such a baby. It's just like being on Hibernate!
GEEK: I can't take him like that.
*BSD: I feel useful! I feel useful!
NETCRAFT: Oh, do us a favor... c'mon.
GEEK: I can't.
NETCRAFT: Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long. Less market-share than Punch-cards and Paper-tape.
GEEK: Naaah, I really got to go on to IBM's -- they've lost OS/2 this week.
NETCRAFT: Well, when is your next round, then?
GEEK: Oh, I won't be back around here till next Thursday.
*BSD: I think I'll go do a compile, now!
NETCRAFT: You're not fooling anyone y'know. Look, mate, isn't there something you can do here?
*BSD: I feel useful... I feel useful. I'm just gonna do a little compile!
[bzzzzzzzzzzzzttttttt]
NETCRAFT: Ah, thanks very much.
GEEK: Not at all. See you on Thursday.
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
You're wrong. $129 is the full price for Tiger, not the upgrade price. I've installed the retail box Tiger on a blank, unformatted hard drive. No problems. Also worth mentioning is that Tiger has no "activation" requirements, so you can install that $129 OS on all the machines in your household. (Yes, this violates copyright, but that's beside the point -- and Apple does offer a discounted "family pack" as well.) With XP you have to buy multiple copies of the OS for multiple machines, and there is no "family pack" option.
throw out the computer and buy a new one.
A Dutch public prosecutor did exactly this. He bought a new computer after his old one got infested with malware and viruses. He put the old one out on the street as garbage.
That got very nasty. Ultimately it cost him his job, because confidential correspondence was leaked when someone picked it up and examined the disk.
In the end he was lucky not to be prosecuted himself, for having child pornography on the system. However, that set some nice precedence: apparently it is no problem to have something on your system when it has gotten there "unintentionally".
Explain what the source code for the OS being available has to do with spyware. I see no connection.
Hypocrisy is the 8th deadly sin.
Slashdot. News for nerds, stuff that matters, failed car analogies.
Curiosity was framed. Ignorance killed the cat.
Doesn't this kind of aggravate the environmental problem that simply 'throwing out' old PCs poses? Whoever wrote TFA should think a little more before publishing such irresponsible drivel.
Transfering software to the new PC is the biggest headache, not the cost of the machine. Transfering software can result in these problems:
1. Long install times
2. Cannot find disks
3. Incompatabilities with new hardware
4. License forbids CPU change
5. Lost custom configurations/settings
6. Stuff I forgot to list
Table-ized A.I.
Let's see if I have this right.
1. Clueless user gets rid of old Windows PC
2. Clueless user installs or has installed the same old software he had.
3. Still clueless user continues same behaviors he was doing, only on a new computer.
4. New computer becomes infested or otherwise hosed up.
4. Repeat.
One of the definitions of insanity is repeatedly doing the same behavior and expecting different results.
Secondly, WTF is a computer scientist doing with a Dell computer, anyway?
Thirdly, WTF is a computer scientist doing running Windows?
Finally, the title of the article is "Corrupted PC's Find New Home in the Dumpster."
Do you see anything wrong with that? Corrupted is a verb, corrupt is an adjective. Geez! That must have been John Markoff's doing
Not only do new computers strain the environment, but old computers need to be disposed of. It costs a great deal more than $400 to make a new computer, make the old computer, and dispose of the old computer.
But what to you expect from the NY Times? Shortsighted and made up is their motto.
"What about the times when you install a stupid program (Warcraft III comes to mind) that saves games in a dir that only an admin can access (if installed as admin)?"
:)
Just set the NTFS permissions on that file/folder/branch so the file(s) can be written by the "Users" group. Depending on the complexity of the program, who else needs to use it, and such, you can even lock it down against modification of the stuff that shouldn't change (to, e.g., to protect against virus infection of EXE files). I do this all the time, although it's usually to make some CAD program or some such work, and not to play games.
It's programs that do goofy, undocumented things like trying to install DLLs into the C:\WINDOWS directory every time they're run (no, I'm not making that up) that really irritate me.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
I guess it's funny even for who doesn't know Monty Python :)
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F