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Intel Cutting Linux Out of Content Market
An Anonymous Reader wrote in to mention an Inquirer story suggesting that Intel is planning on cutting Linux out of the content market. From the article: "The vehicle to do this is called East Fork, the upcoming and regrettable Intel digital media 'platform'. The funny part is that the scheme is already a failure, but it will hurt you as it thrashes before it dies. Be afraid, be very afraid."
Yes DRM is evil. I choose not to buy this machine. I am saved. End of story... This guy sounds like a doomsday fanatic to me.
Don't buy it. Don't very buy it.
Or something. Look, if you want to use your media the way you want and not be locked into DRM, don't buy this. Also don't buy RIAA CDs or download from sources you think are too restrictive. If enough people do it, they'll have to change their DRM. If (as I suspect will happen) everybody else in the world is fine with the DRM, then they won't have to change and that will suck. But you don't have to use it, so it shouldn't matter to you.
Pulp Audio Weekly - Geek News and Reviews
Time to buy stock in AMD. I imagine they'll be happy to support the market share that Intel doesn't want to.
-TLAY
Wow, I haven't seen an article this biased in a long time. This is not journalism, this is flaming.
-- Cheers!
People are inherently averse to getting screwed, in the way that Intel is doing mind you, and if you try to screw people, they will avoid you.
I thought people on slashdot were inherently incapable of being screwed... Please see previous articles on roleplaying.
the server domain, i find it very hard to ever imagine Intel doing anything with purpose to hurt linux. Intel makes hardware, I doubt they really care what OS the hardware runs, as long as they sell chips. Intel may hate AMD and program there compilers to hate AMD, but I seriously doubt they would maim there own hardware to knock down a OS that doesnt support DRM. Besides, who's to say they cant code linux to adapt to it?
Sunday is a slow news day, but geez. This is news? So Intel (or Microsoft/Toshiba/Sony/Phillips/Haliburton) is making a media PC? Um, who cares?
My CDs play well on my $29 stereo, and in my car. FM radio, where it isn't ClearChannel, sounds just fine. Perhaps the drones who are EMPOWERING Intel to make this move are going to suffer. Why must your PC converge with your TV?
Why must you have 55" plasma, Dolby 11.1 surround, with Foomatic DSP and Orgasmatron effects? Christ, step outside and go for a walk, see a local band, read a book, play with your dog, have sex with your wife. This is your life, man, and its ending 1 minute at a time.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
I'd love to use something like iTunes. Unfortunately, because of the DRM, the fact that the files aren't compatible with Linux, my Palm, and whatever else I want it to be with, I'd rather just pirate the damned thing. Then I get it in a format I know works.
Computer software. If the first damned thing that I'm going to do is scour the net for a "nocd" patch to get rid of the ridiculous SecureROM crap, then I'm more likely to grab the entire package. Add to that a point-of-sale variation on DRM, the no-return policies, and the fact that so much of the software out there sucks, doesn't perform as advertised, crashes, or is incompatible with hardware it should work with, and people are more likely to pirate the software.
The content companies can keep shooting themselves in the foot. Hopefully, the U.S. government will eventually come in and slap all these companies down with anti-trust violations and the like, but I'm not holding my breath. Microsoft, the RIAA, et al. donate a lot of money, you know.
What happens once all cable/sat/OTA decoder boxes start to come with Windows Media Center features powered by the East Fork platform? Then how will you get your TV?
You won't? Can you live with out TV? I can. I mostly do now and losing the little I do watch doesn't scare me.
Pulp Audio Weekly - Geek News and Reviews
I have been forced to circumvent content "protection" for years now as a linux user. I have to commit the Heinous crime of using decss to watch DVD's on my linux laptop as well as the frighteningly horribly act of circumventing the DRM on some CD's in order to perform the equally horrible crim of listening to the CD's that I own on my music gear.
Yes, I am worse than all the serial killers on death row, I am a linux user.
and to top it off, I am evil enough to share with friends and relatives on how to do the same thing. I distribute the weapons of mass destruction such as DVDDecryptor, DVDShrink, and yes, even a CD ripping tool that uses Lame and cdparanoia for windows (Oh why doesn't someone stop me!) sothey too can commit the terrorist acts of ripping CD's, DVD's and other horrible crimes that threaten freedom and our way of life.
Yes, I am a linux user, and no one can stop me.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Then how will you get your TV?
/.ers do now.
Over the internet, from people in countries with sane copyright law, same as a lot of
0 1 - just my two bits
Intel has beginning making a number of bad choices like this lately. They need to focus what got them where they are - providing quality processors. Too much attention is being put into small niche additions like this.
Voice your opinion!
I've often said that you can always tell where the most objectionable regimes are, their names start off with "The Democratic Republic of .....". We now hear "Freedom" and "Democracy" dripping from the lips of politicians like the sweetest sauce. May be no one owns these politicians, but like whores, they are paid. Freedom is a straight-jacket and Democracy is more of a Shamocracry. Perhaps we are moving into a world where the unauthorised writing of software will be a criminal offence.
...or does fair use still exist? If they haven't, then ANY CD or DVD I buy I reserve the right to rip to another format for more easy use, keeping the original copy safe and secure. That simple. If they don't like it, petition the SCotUS to reverse itself. Otherwise, they can fark off.
No way, no how, will I use WMV or any other format w/DRM. Not now, not ever.
Am I surprised by any of this? Nope. They fought the VCR, the cassette tape, the eight-track, private ownership of film cameras, etc. Even after repeated court rulings setting down that the people had the right to make archival back-ups of media such as floppies, the software companies still tried to use copy protection that made it impossible to make such an archival or fair-use copy.
Here's fair-use compatible DRM: I get a file of information as usual such as name, address, phone, e-mail, secret questions I know the answer to, etc. I also pay them X$ for whatever. Public key encryption is used to ensure only the key holder can access it. I can copy the encrypted file to whatever device I like that can read and act on my key. Without my key, it won't work.
Want more security? A simple USB device with a unique hardware key adds an extra layer insuring that only the person with that dongle and password for both hardware and stored software keys can play it. If I lose it for good, I revoke my software key on the server and inform them and prove who I am and get a new copy issued when I get a new USB key. They don't give a new copy until I permanently revoke my software key and prove my identity and that I bought a copy previously attached to that key.
If I gave my USB dongle away with the previous copy, then when the system connects in and asks the server about my software key it finds it revoked, it won't play the file and suspends the old key on the USB fob.
An open community such as that operating the various PGP/GPG key servers would handle the software key side, the hardware keys would be made to adhere to an open standard using well documented public key encryption standards and algorithms, and the IP owners handing out encrypted copies would have no control over either. They'd not be able to unilaterally revoke your right to usage of the copy you paid for and you'd not get that encrypted copy until you paid.
Go ahead and P2P the encrypted files all you want. Unless you can break PGP encrypted files trivially, it won't help. They'd be useless without both the hardware and software keys that matched the file.
If they used this, and the content was what I wanted, I'd pay and get my personal copy.
Yeah, I know. I can dream though...
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
This sounds a lot like the DRM built into the XBox/PS2, which both have copy control protection built into the hardware. What will end up happening is that the hardware will have the DRM built in and people will make mod chips to bypass it. Software DRM doesn't work because cracking software is a simple thing to do. Hardware DRM will stop more people from copying and using the content in manners which the provider doesn't want but the more technically proficient people will buy and install modchips and do as they please.
I've solved the drm problem for myself. When in less than a year, the denve stations all swtich to hdtv streams, I suspect that will be the last of broadcast TV in my house. My family doesn't pay for cable or satelite, we just get what we get. I don't even watch tv anymore, except in hotel rooms, So I don't care. I read papre newpapers and online journals, TV has eliminated my need for it. THere's never anything on, and I can do more interesting things without it. I congratulate the folks at RIAA who have removed my need to purchase anything at all, really. I can listen to broadcast radio if I'm REALLY bored, or I can continue to break the law by putting copies of the few remaning copyable cds on my music server. I hope they DRM even more, so I have even less motivation to pick up their crap. I go to theaters to watch movies and friends to watch DVD's but I won't be a consumer for much longer, there's just no point. If I break it it's gone. I'd still buy ut2k4, a great game becuase 6-months or so after release, I don't need a no-cd crack, it just doesn't require one, it runs on linux, and is just great. I say DRM it up make me buy it 3 or 4 times, You can keep it. I don't need it that bad.
Can I be a Luddite too?
You may not be able to buy a "general purpose computer" anymore. They will all have this specialized DRM crap and who knows what else. All built into the chips, so it will be difficult if not impossible to avoid it.
It's not as evil as it may seem. Surely the intent can be viewed as outrageous to those of us who know and love linux and all the free stuff that comes with it. But this will be good for linux and open source in the end.
There will spring all sorts of new inventions from this. Who knows, maybe we'll see a whole new industry spring up to fill the void that was once completely covered by the current industry giants.
I can imagine though this is going to create many problems. Major ISPs may not allow you on their networks if you're not "secure". You will undoubtedly have to use MicroTel hardware at work, therefore if you try to work at home, you'll have to have at least one "secure" computer just to be able to edit your Word document.
I can see Apple gaining a wider audience on the other hand. They're moving TOWARDS open source, not away from it. They seems to have their finger on the pulse of the people.
I'm a bit nervous.. change is always tough.. especially when you've grown up with this industry. But in the end the great spirit of the geeks will emerge. It's too strong.
You're nothing; like me.
For all of you thinking AMD may play the good guy in this DRM nightmare, let me remind you that they, along with Intel, are a promoter of the Trusted Computing Group - link [windowsfordevices.com]
Is it just me, or is this written very very strangely? Instead of explaining anything, the article sounds like the inane ramblings of a crazed lunatic. That said, it is difficult to take its contents at face value. Could we get a somewhat more reasonable explaination of this technology, and what it really means for Linux?
Not everybody can afford to take care of yet another child.
Go buy some condoms, ya cheap bastard.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
But is AMD's Linux audience bigger than AMD's Windows audience?
Personally, I'm an AMD-Linux user.
The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
Condoms are roughly $1 a piece where I live, that's nothing close to cheap.
Not to mention that you have to actually talk to the woman sometimes. I mean, I've got UT to play and
Pulp Audio Weekly - Geek News and Reviews
The mafia is always ready to feed the people when the law goes too far. Like prohibition, prostitution, gambling. The problem is that the mafia shoots people to protect their access to the market. And their product liability amounts to "tell it to the fishes". When our government and its corporate sponsors drive us into the arms of the mafia, we're screwed, not saved.
--
make install -not war
I work at Intel in an unrelated group as a Validation Engineer although I have knowledge of this project. There is a plan for Linux support of this content distribution service, although the team responsible has found it much harder to develop for Linux than Microsoft. They have good relationship with Microsoft and Microsoft may make enhancements requested by the team. For Linux there are tons of different options out there which makes their job much more time consuming. Linux support will follow windows support by ruffly 6 months.
If you have any questions, mail me, or post em here and I will try to get them all.
-Charlie
This is actually the very doomsday scenario that caused the British Government in the 1940s to ban the use of cable for broadcasting. Dissent will be impossible, you WILL see the content that is proscribed and no other, for no other content will exist.
In the same way pirate radio simply doesn't exist in the US, pirate TV will not do so either. If more people had access to multicast streams, it would be very easy to set up dissenting sources of media, but that isn't going to happen.
Sure, there are technologies like DeCSS around. They are banned in the US, under the DMCA, but they are around. Eventually, though, they are bound to fail. The penalties will become too severe, there won't be any safe havens left for developers to operate in. (DeCSS only exists because other countries haven't gone DRM-crazy yet.)
There is also the fact that Intel is a near-monopoly. In the same way Microsoft killed off Netscape, Intel CAN kill off all non-DRMed media by simply refusing to play it - or, worse, creating a log of un-DRMed content and sending the list to "interested parties". The technology for this exists and would certainly be in the spirit of the DMCA.
Does this mean Intel are evil? Not necessarily. "Can" is a long way from "will". There is no proof of intent to cause harm. Harm is inevitable, when you go down this kind of road, but there is no proof that that is why Intel is going there.
Personally, I believe Intel see this as a way to make money off the RIAA and MPAA - sponge off of their paranoia - and therefore solidify control over their corner of the market. I don't see this as Intel trying to censor or trying to "cut Linux out".
Nonetheless, once the technology is out and branded with the Intel logo, it will be used to censor (by the RIAA and MPAA) and will be used to cut Linux out (by Microsoft and possibly SCO). The long-term consequences are inevitable, even though I don't believe Intel are doing this for those reasons.
Intel is out to make money, and the most money comes from having the most power. The same is true of all the other companies. Power is not an end in itself, it is a means of becoming filthy rich and staying that way. It is necessary in order to attain and maintain that state. Without power, alternatives can thrive and that will reduce profit.
Intel are no more evil than Star Trek's Ferrengi and are driven by much the same belief system. Their "crime", if it can be called that, is to ignore the consequences of that belief system. It doesn't affect their profit margin, so is of no consequence to them, regardless of how it impacts others.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Seriously, this sort of thing does encourage a counter culture and an escalation in the evolution of measure/counter measure. Mod Lumpy 'insightful' ('funny' doesn't net any karma, unless they've fixed that).
Loose lips lose spit.
Same article was posted last week, was it not?
c -usat_x.htm t rategy_in_tatters/
l eID/15996/15996.html
And anyways; big whooping deal!
1. It will *fail*. The cable companies, and alternate provides (like TiVO) will crush Intel, Microsoft, and anyone elses who attempts to develop a media pc. Why? Because the average consumer is much more willing to have an instant-on appliance managed by an outside operator which looks to cost very little (only $5 more on your monthly bill!) than an expensive looking ($500-$1000 at your local electronics store) box with a moderately arcane setup (all you have to do is use this IR transceiver to transmit codes to your cable box, and then program it for the right codes!, or something to do with this new 'cablecard' deal, which few people (especially the cable companies) seem to know much about)).
Also, I suspect the Windows-based media boxen will be notoriously unreliable and buggy. Also late. Look at Microsoft's IPTV initiative. It's running *way* late. Even for the providers that are already signed up! SBC's techs are sweating bullets right now:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2005-06-07-sb
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/01/ms_iptv_s
While it *looks* like Microsoft is on-track with Comcast, Comcast excutives have repeatedly said they are evalutating both iGuide (their current supplier) as well as Microsoft for their boxes. And historically, Microsoft has a terrible record when dealing with cable companies:
http://www.windowsitpro.com/Windows/Article/Artic
Do you *really* expect to have any of these companies roll out a full MS solution on-time without siginificant bugs? I don't, and as soon as one supplies switches, or has a miserable failure (ready Comcast's Oregon MS set-top system freezes for a week) the whole market will break loose.
Which, incidentially, is how Microsoft lost the *rest* of the world regarding IPTV and set-top boxes, which is especially ironic given their size (4737489372 pound gorrilla), and that most content providers started out by saying that the MS solution was their future.
2. Intel's DRM will be cracked. Anyone play a DVD on linux? Did you do it using your licensed player, or your technically illegal libdvdcss? (Except, of course, in a few countries in the world. U.S. is *not* including). This is the primary way that people play DVDs on linux; this is not a niche solution.
3. Most likely, Intel will provide a closed-source kernel module that will provide an API to interact with a closed-source graphics driver. Nvidia and ATI will do the same thing, as well. So you'll be able to get gimped, DRM TV on your linux box, as well.
People have been crying that the sky has been falling for a long time. The problem is, Intel/Micosoft have never been able to deliever the 'killer' solution that ends all competition. They are always a day late and a dollar short. I really just don't consider them a serious threat.
A *far* more serious threat to home linux theatre PCs is the arcane setup required for most linux DVR projects. Fix that mess, and you'll see cheap linux home theatre pc's avaliable at walmart.
Not that I'm blaming the MythTV developers, or the Freevo developers. But it is hard to get those projects up and running correctly at home, and I imagine that from a developer perspective it looks easier to build an MS solution than a Linux solution, which is why the big media distribution companies are looking at MS first.
Once they get their hands wet (as the European firms did), they give up on the MS bugs. I expect an annoucement from Bellsouth to that effect shortly.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
There's some uber-paranoia going on in that article, but it was an interesting read.
Fortunately, due to human nature being so wonderfully inept at controlling anything successfully for lengthy periods of time, I don't think we need worry about "Intel Cutting Linux Out of Content Market" or your more wild theories about lack of choice in terms of your media.
Other markets always open up which counter DRM.
Case in point is DVD-R, worth billions for the companies that sell the units and the media.
Before that CD-R, before that VHS, Betamax, Cassette tape.
These companies can afford to own Congressmen and can also afford to make DRM meaningless.
If DRM means that people won't be able to copy their media, or record TV, then a MASSIVE segment of the entire home entertainment industry will go bust.
Obviously that isn't going to happen.
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
Why did the author make a big deal about it cutting Linux out of the content market? What about, say, Apple Computer, which has it's own eye on that market? What this is really all about is Microsoft trying to sew up the home desktop market as completely as has already done with the corporate world. Want to watch a movie? You'll have to boot up Windows, and don't even think about using one of those "alternative OSes" because it is effectively illegal under U.S. Federal law to play any commercial content on those platforms. Geez, how do convicted monopolists keep getting away with this stuff?
... Congress. It was a rhetorical question anyways.
I know, I know
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Netscape, Real and others have all fallen victim to the Microsoft bundling machine Netscape I can sympathize with, but Real was going to hell long before MS got involved.
Normality is now: overrated.
DRM is only a problem if the content is being distributed with it attached. When the artists are in charge of their own distribution, they are free to not do this. As technology drives the cost of distribution towards zero, distribution will become commoditized. Artistic effort, by its very nature, can't be commoditized. The end result will be that the artists will be in control, as customers and clients. Some will choose to use DRM, some will not. The market will take this into account when deciding who is most convenient to pay attention to, and any DRM that inconveniences consumers substantially will not be economically viable.
The only problem is that this will take a while.
There's no failure quite as dissatisfying as a complete and total solution to the wrong problem.
You mean I won't be able to watch a ton of crappy tv shows on my AMD machine running Linux? Damn.
I'll just buy a $400 windows machine with Intel for the occasions I want to watch tv or a movie or listen to a new CD. When I'm done, I'll throw it away, since that's what everyone else is doing anyway.
Maybe not
Isn't the new Xbox coming from Microsoft going to be PowerPC-based? I had always thought the Xbox was an important factor in the "invade-your-living-room" strategy of Microsoft. So is IBM putting similar technology in these custom PowerPC chips, too?
But ultimately, I think the PC will never topple the TV. While technically they could be blended into a single machine, people have been enculturated deeply to keep them separate entities.
Seriously, what value does a Media Center PC have over a convential media center? If anything, "convential" media centers are going to increasingly get PC-like functionality and displace the computer in people's homes, not visa-versa; they're the ones coming from a point of strength.
random underscore blankspace at ya know hoo dot comedy.
They let you preview all of the songs on every album for sale, and though they may not have RIAA-signed artists, they've got a pretty good selection, and I try to shamelessly plug them every chance I get. Best of all, all you need is an mp3 player of some sort to listen to the 128kbps song previews (which are the full songs, not 30 second snippets). The prices are very reasonable, and 50% of the sale price of the album goes straight to the artist; so you can buy more music than you would on amazon, and the people who made it will get fairly compensated for their work and talent. You should check it out, you might like it.
The problem is there is nothing that stops software providers from forcing you to have an upgrade which is a downgrade. Or worse ..
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
If I'm the type of guy who reads The Wire magazine, buys electronica albums, and makes excuses for lazy music, then this sort of stuff should be right up my street, but with the exception of an album by a guy called "Izmar", the stuff on Legal Torrents was sub-ambient claptrap.
All that said, this complaint holds no water because, bandwidth or internet connection aside, I got it for free under an open license. Which is cool and groovy. And while I'm a proponent of such distribution methods for music that would never sell off its own bat, people should have a little knowledge that if you get stuff for free, it's likely to suck.
Notable exception, the BBC's recent 9 Beethoven Symphonies. But then again, that does exactly what it says on the tin. Most legal free music downloads don't even have a tin for a description to be plastered on. (Concerning the write up on Legaltorrents.com a paragraph for as much as 20+ albums isn't going to give you much to go on. And if it's zipped, you may not be able to pick or choose the albums you get.)
Final note: legaltorrents has an excellent openly distributable movie (independent) called Blue. Simple stuff, nothing memorable, but it was done really well in Maya and Photoshop with good production values. Using Legal Torrents to reach an audience is smart, and great for those that would risk downloading a big file to see and indie animated movie. Link goes straight to download of torrent, beware Opera 8.02 users: Blue: A Short Film (DivX).
In the same way pirate radio simply doesn't exist in the US, pirate TV will not do so either.
Pirate FM radio does exist in the USA but only a few channels in hyper-dense markets like Los Angeles, San Francisco, and New York. Individual channels come and go depending upon how necessary that the FCC feels that the station needs to be shut down.
I suspect that pirate TV will happen when NTSC broadcasting goes off the air, which is scheduled for Dec 31, 2006. Suddenly there will be millions of TVs that will be receiving nothing but static and millions of people ready to watch anything. If you want to get a message out but couldn't afford expensive television advertizing rates before, that time will be your chance. Just have your own transmitter (a small neighborhood one to start) ready to go as soon as the major commercial stations switches off.
Since this big shut-down is tentatively scheduled to occur in 17 months, now would be the time to get the equipment ready for broadcasting whatever you want when the majors go off the air.
Uncensored footage of the endless war, antiwar documentaries, conspiracy research, 'truth about UFOs', corporate coverups, home porn, whatever. When the television airwaves go off, there is going to be once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to fill the vacuum with your stuff. Pirate and Guerrilla television will be actually exciting for the first time.
I don't really disagree is some ways but delivering content is NOT information. Europe, America, and China work because there is information. Countries without collapse and are poor. Content is the product of someone(s) and their hard work. They have the ownership right to it. The other thing is employment. A society must create jobs and compete, if something is too low cost all the inputs (labor, land etc) have to be found even cheaper. It is the race to the bottom. By the way my small consulting company runs Linux server so I don't have to pay license fees. This is the most capitalistic thing to do. It saves me money there for I could expand the business and buy a second home. Find the lowest cost solution to the problem IS capitalism (why do you think mega corps like low cost labor). I agree free is good for services like delivery vs. creator....Kind of like not tipping a waiter, why do it, they don't make the food just deliver it???? Linux to me means more profit and less control by others in services.
Do you have a URL to back this up?
Typical description of Trusted Network Connect
You can't afford $5 per year?
--
Runnin' around, robbin' banks all whacked on the Scooby Snacks...
"Well we have a fundamentally difference of opinion about DRM. I think DRM is good and you think it is bad. With DRM I have the choice to watch movies like the Matrix, Batman reborn, and revenge of the studs (that was humor). With DRM I don't have that choice. I don't see the evil in DRM that you do"
This is a false set of choice. That's because DRM != Watching A Movie.
If Congress passed a law tomorrow outlawing DRM, do you think the studios would say "oh, no more content for people, we'll sit on it and not let anybody see it!" Or is DRM simply a way to ensure 5% better margins and incidentally screw everybody out of fair use?
The answer is, without DRM, high-def (note, I didn't say high quality) video would be available, and you'd be better off as would the rest of the world. The content will be sold. I'd rather it be on my terms rather than the MPAA's terms. And I'd rather my PC not fall victim of Intel/MS's desire to increase margins just so I won't make a copy of that marvelous "Batman Begins" movie.
I'm okay with you giving up any and all your rights just for 1080i. Don't ask me to do the same all in the name of entertainment.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
After reading the article, why would Intel create any DRM solution tied to MSFT when apple has pledged support for Intel? I think that more research with actual facts would provide a better view into the problem.
Also, maybe I don't fully understand DRM, but how would dropping the DRM into hardware help? Other than offloading a CPU during playback / record, I can't figure out the advantages. Having the DRM in hardware would require constant firmware updates to enhance the DRM / stay ahead of the pirates. If they are hoping to get a "lock" on the media PC, this is really a bad way to start.
I'm sure this will all work out once the **AA gets involved and protects our rights to listen to their products.
--WooooHoooo--
Not to mention that you have to actually talk to the woman sometimes. I mean, I've got UT to play
/. to post on!
/. (I mean, this is a pretty scary den of idiots and trolls, see the LA Times Wiki debacle).
I play Quake with my fiance. She doesn't like deathmatch, but coop is much more fun than single player (I'm hoping Quake4 has a good coop mode).
and
You probably can't talk her into
And to top it off, I gotta pay a whole dollar to have sex?
You don't need to pay a buck to have sex with her, it's more of an insurance plan against a possible liability of tens of thousands of dollars per year for the next 18-24 years.
Man, I'm glad I have a right hand!
Try your left hand sometime. And no, it isn't cheating.
Jeff