Meet Web Hypochondriacs

prostoalex writes "When Jerome K. Jerome in 1889 described going to the British Museum to read medical encyclopedia and subsequently finding symptoms of almost all diseases in his body, he didn't realize the problem would exacerbate more than a century later. Web hypochondriacs are calling up doctors with requests for prescriptions for all sorts of diseases, since they discovered some similar symptoms on the Web. Wall Street Journal quotes a doctor: 'My impression is that people believe more of what they read than what I tell them. It seems that traditional Western medicine based on scientific evidence is less and less trusted by the general public. Meanwhile, some dubious theory from the Internet will be swallowed hook, line and sinker nine times out of 10.' "

Comments

OMG!

[Junior J. Junior III]

That sounds EXACTLY like the problem *I* have!!!!

I hope there's a cure...

Re:OMG!

[Gzip Christ]

That sounds EXACTLY like the problem *I* have!!!!
I hope there's a cure...

You're in luck, I have just what you need. It's called Placebo(TM) and it's used far more widely than any "medicine". Coming soon to a spam near you.

The Web

[bodester17]

I think the web is making everyone out to gullable. We all need to remember that there is a lot of FALSE information on the web. I think this applies to other things other than medicine. The web is giving a false sense of knowlege.

Re:The Web

[audiodude]

Unfortunately, this applies to Wikipedia, too. It's a great resource, and mostly accurate. But many things that people post might be hearsay, if only for the fact that they don't cite any sources. Without citations, how can you really trust anything you read there?

Re:The Web

[aussie_a]

I think the web is making everyone out to gullable.

I agree. I doubt very much there really are web hypochondriacs. Only the truly gullible will believe this article.

Re:The Web

[NineNine]

I agree. I doubt very much there really are web hypochondriacs. Only the truly gullible will believe this article.

Or maybe it's your post that only the gullible believe? Hmm... who to believe...?

Re:The Web

[lanswitch]

Without citations, how can you really trust anything you read there?
I'm sorry, but without proper citation, how can I know that your claim is true?

Re:The Web

[bcattwoo]

less than 25% got it right which fit his "1 in 4 people you meet is a moron."

So, are the people who got it right morons or did you put yourself in that category with the above statement?

A brief history of Medicine

[XFilesFMDS1013]

2000 BC: Here, take this root.
1000 AD: That root is for a heathen. Here, say this prayer.
1850 AD: That prayer is superstition. Here, drink this potion.
1940 AD: That potion is snake oil. Here, swallow this pill.
1985 AD: That pill is ineffective. Here take this antibiotic.
2000 AD: That antibiotic is artificial. Here, eat this root.
2005 AD: That root works! Read about it on my blog!

Re:A brief history of Medicine

[Junior J. Junior III]

1970: I don't think it's a good idea to give root access to just anyone.

Re:A brief history of Medicine

[erroneus]

It's true though.

And in my opinion, there are two things that lead to better health:

1. Eat good food. I'm definitely as guilty as the rest (probably more so since I TRULY know better) that having the fresh vegetables, cutting back on starches and excess red meat is just better for you and your body will tell you so every morning you wake up from a single day of eating well. Don't believe me? Just for ONE DAY eat some soup and salad staying away from stuff with dairy and such. Just one day and see how you feel in the morning. If you still feel like crap I'll admit that I'm wrong.

2. Don't be "TOO CLEAN." If you don't exercise, you will become weak and slow. If your immune system isn't kept busy, it will also become weak and slow. I see people go to great lengths to avoid this and that only to be stricken down by the most simple of viruses or bacteria. Quit taking freakin' anti-biotics and let your own immune system handle stuff (when possible). (I'll never forget how a sister-in-law proclaimed my sons needed anti-biotics because the had sniffles. It's insanity.) I still can't remember the last time I've actually been "sick." Had a minor reaction from some KFC recently but that's about it. You don't have to be disgusting about it, but resist doing too much and leave the "anti-bacterial soap" on the store shelves -- you don't need it!

Re:A brief history of Medicine

[rhesuspieces00]

I ate fruit and vegetables and no red meat yesterday and I still feel like crap.

Also, I think it is highly irresponsible on your part to suggest to /. readers that showers are in some way "optional."

Re:A brief history of Medicine

[drsquare]

A good post, probably the only useful one in this entire article, and it'll probably be overshadowed by a torrent of +5 'funny' posts and dead-end flamewars.

1. Definitely eat better food. If you feed your body shit, you'll end up a big bag of shit. Cut out the E-numbers and processed foods. Cut out the endless chocolate and crisps and burgers and sugar. Red meat's good. Full of iron and vitamins. Dairy's a great source of vitamins and protein, but stay away from that UHT shite. Learn to cook. Any excuses about not having time/money are bullshit. You have time you're just lazy.

2. That's another good point. I work in a grimy factory full of dirt, I exercise every day, eat fruit every day and I'm NEVER ill. I get the odd cold every other winter or so, that lasts perhaps a day. Don't use those kitchen/bathroom cleaners that brag about killing bacteria, and ignore all that crap about how filthy kitchens are, it's just scaremongering to sell Mr Muscle. I don't use any of that anti-bacterial crap and I never get food poisoning. I rarely fully-cook my meat. Over-cleaning is more dangerous than under-cleaning.

The only times I'm sick is when I drink a lot. And even then it has to be wine, that's the only way I can get enough alcohol down (beer fills me up, spirits irritate my mouth). And when I eat at McDonald's of course. Although I haven't been there in six years (the 'big mac' lasted in my stomach about half an hour, what the fuck do they put in those things?)

Re:A brief history of Medicine

[Script Cat]

The current medical Establishment is not scientific; At least not from the patient's point of view.
So don't be too surprised when people put there faith, that's right "faith", in other forms of medicine.
In our "faith based" medical system we are given magic pills for our mysterious diseases without knowing how they work or why we have the disease in the first place.
The doctors think we are too stupid to understand or be actively involved to choosing options in diagnosing and treating our problems.

Re:A brief history of Medicine

[zenyu]

2. Don't be "TOO CLEAN."

Just a little appendum, always wash your hands after using the bathroom including between your fingers, and up to your elbows after no. 2. Also, do use the anti-bacterial soap when you ARE sick, it will work better if you didn't use it before you were sick.

It's not because not doing it is gross, nor is it for keeping you healthy, it is for the health of the people you interact with. Hand and bandage washing is what extended lifespan in the 19th and early 20th century. It has had an impact comparable to the discovery of anti-biotics in the mid-20th century.

Oh, a bit offtopic, wash your fruit and veggies with a mild solution of soap, the soap removes waxy anti-fungals and anti-insect poisons. The poisons won't kill you (well they shouldn't), but the fruits will taste better. The poisons have a bitter taste, most noticable on sweets such as apples and strawberries.

Re:A brief history of Medicine

[thiophene]

1) There are antibacterial soaps out there. They started out in places like operating rooms and hospitals, however in recent years have been permeating our homes and society by the ultrahygenic movement.

2) Soap itself does not kill bacteria. It helps you to remove loose, dead cells on the surface of your skin to which the bacteria are clinging. The water washes it away.

Re:A brief history of Medicine

[similar to mh2]

GP wasn't saying using soap excessively breeds bacteria that are resistant to it, but that not exposing the body to bacteria that it will normally encounter as a matter of course means the immune system won't be able to cope with those bacteria when it does encounter them.

Basically, keeping your kid in a clean room and spraying everything he touches with Dettol Antibacterial Spray, or whatever that crap's called, means when he *does* catch something, something that would cause trivial symptoms if any in a health, normal person, it'll kill him.

Leastways, that's what I think he was saying, and if it was, then he's right, in my opinion.

Re:A brief history of Medicine

[thiophene]

Thank you for your condescending attitude. Perhaps it may be of use to you too look at your linked references. Also, you may want to google "triclosan", a common ingredient in antibacterial soaps.

The first hit I received from "mechanism of triclosan" was this:

Mechanism of Triclosan Inhibition of Bacterial Fatty Acid Synthesis (I apologize if you can't see this, I'm at a university and never know if people can see the links to journals I post)

So as you can see, triclosan affects the cell chemically.

Now, when these soaps say they kill 99.9% of all germs, guess which 0.1% they're not killing. I'll also give you another guess as to which ones keep reproducing.

Triclosan isn't the only antibacterial, for example, bleach (sodium hypochlorite) is also commonly used. Here is a reference to bacterial resistance to bleach. (Actually I was quite surprised myself to see this)

Kearns AM, Freeman R, Lightfoot NF (1995). "Nosocomal enterococci: resistance to heat and sodium hypochlorite." J Hosp Infect 30(3): 193-199.

I would love to continue this diatribe, but I have a chemistry Ph.D. to complete.

Re:A brief history of Medicine

[timeOday]

always wash your hands after using the bathroom including between your fingers, and up to your elbows after no. 2.

Up to your ELBOWS? Maybe it's your pooping technique that's flawed...

Too true

[Spacejock]

I'd post a longer comment but my RSI is playing up.

E-mail?

[aussie_a]

Web hypochondriacs are calling up doctors with requests for prescriptions for all sorts of diseases

I've got some e-mails about getting their pills if the doctor won't prescribe it.

Darn

[ToasterofDOOM]

I got all excited when I saw the title and thought ... Wow! People get spyware just by convincing themselves it's there! Oh well. **Returns to Python**

On the flip side

[SCHecklerX]

It's nice to have the information researchable, so that you can get more information than what your doctor tells you. I've recently started suffering from eczema outbreaks, followed by a couple of nasty infections over the past year. I've seen several GPs, a couple of dermatologists, and an infectious disease specialist for the infection that keeps popping up all over my legs. Aside from the antibiotics, the things I've read about eczema on the web have helped me more than the vague advice given by the family doctors and dermatologists.

Re:On the flip side

[hackstraw]

I've seen several GPs, a couple of dermatologists, and an infectious disease specialist for the infection that keeps popping up all over my legs. Aside from the antibiotics, the things I've read about eczema on the web have helped me more than the vague advice given by the family doctors and dermatologists.

That's my experience as well. After 4 years of regular college and 4 years of memorization, doctors are given almost godlike esteem with little to no evidence of them deserving their godlike aura (aside from their pay).

I've often wished there was a service that graded or had some kind of feedback on the quality of a doctor, however, as I understand it, the buddy-buddy system inside of the medical community is so tight that the lack of good information to the general public is not a coincidence. A shady businessman can only go on so far until his reputation catches up with him. The number of doctors that have been found liable for malpractice multiple times keep practicing medicine. Its very rare that a doctor looses his license.

I've said it before and I'll say it again

[BlackCobra43]

WebMD is the worst thing to come along for Hypocondriacs since pneumoconiosis and other sesquipadelian afflictions.

Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again

[AndersOSU]

Agreed, but I feel the need to point out that just because its bad for hypocondriacs, doesn't mean its bad period.

There is a lot of valuable information about all kinds of diseases and medicine that should be available to us, and is with WebMD.

I am tempted to say that if you are stupid enough to diagnose yourself with some obscure disease from WebMD thats your own damn fault, but unfortunately a lot of really intelligent people do the same thing. The methods of problem solving we were taught in school seemingly is a perfect fit for diagnosing medical conditions, but blindly combining symptoms is now substitute for a doctors experience.

Personally, I think that the responsible thing for WebMD and the like to do is to disallow searching by symptom. That way if you know about the disease you can research it, but if your shakrahs are just out of alignment and you need to figure out whats wrong with you its more difficult.

Who listens to doctors?

[Monte]

Wall Street Journal quotes a doctor: 'My impression is that people believe more of what they read than what I tell them...

Of course! Because you're telling them things like "Stop smoking, don't drink so much, cut down the fat, get some excersize, brush your teeth and watch your diet". Who the hell wants to hear that? Websites aren't so much interested in your health as they are in getting ad impresions, so they probably aren't going to preach.

On the internet no one knows you're a fat lazy bastard with bad habits. [but if I were a betting man, that's where I'd put my money]

Re:Who listens to doctors?

[vondo]

Wall Street Journal quotes a doctor: 'My impression is that people believe more of what they read than what I tell them...

And part of the reason for that is that a doctor will talk to you for 2 minutes (or maybe just have his secretary talk to you on the phone, take notes, and call you back) and diagnose you. You, on the other hand, have spend hours looking into what might be wrong with you.

I've had exactly that happen. I was on anti-biotics for 20 days (two treatments) when the real problem was allergies. Going in and seeing someone led to a proper diagnosis. A lot of people are fed up with doctors, and not always for bad reasons.

Re:Who listens to doctors?

[LWATCDR]

Funny but I have had the exact opposite happen. I went to a doctor for a small infection. The doctor looked at it gave me some meds and told me to come back in two days. It was not healing as well as he would have liked so he did a blood test. Turns out I was diabetes and did not know it. He spent a lot of time claiming me down and telling me not to worry that my life was not over and that we would manage it. He found me a good endo and got me on treatment. I am doing well and I am managing it with diet and just some light drugs now.
The strange thing is that doctor was at a walk in insta med clinic!

Re:Who listens to doctors?

[Kafka_Canada]

Canadian?

My wife is like this...

[AccUser]

My wife will get some symptom, and then scour books and the web for indications of possible diagnosis. I found it funny after a while, but the first couple of times she declared that she had cancer or MS was quite worrying.

The funniest thing is that my wife is a doctor.

Re:My wife is like this...

[Wudbaer]

Don't tell me about it. I'm an MD by training, and it was always hell learning for exams. You are going through this really really big book full of crippling and lethal diseases, and not only lethal, but painful-disfiguring-debilitating-disabling-finally -after-some-years-lethal diseases. It's fine at first, but then: Oops. That here, that funny itch I always... oh ok, only women can get that. Whooo. But THIS one ! OMG ! I'm gonna die ! Next page. Repeat. One finally gets used to it and stops dying for several times per chapter, but it shows that not only health Web sites are dangerous.

3rd Leading Cause of Death...

[SirCyn]

Doctors (their mistakes) are the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA.

http://www.healingdaily.com/Doctors-Are-The-Third- Leading-Cause-of-Death-in-the-US.htm

This article is a little extreme. Almost half are due to unforseeable drug effects. But still, a good reason to doubt your doctor.

Re:3rd Leading Cause of Death...

[MyLongNickName]

Doing your own research is good. But what these articles fail to point out is sometimes "Medical Mistakes" are due to your doctor treating something very serious with a very affressive treatment. Imagine a disease that kills 8 out of 10 people within two years, but the treatment kills 3 out of 10 while extending the life of the other 10. Articles like this would lump those three into medical mistakes, but neglect to mention that five folks were spared.

This article also fails to mention that the reason some causes of death dropped in the list is BECAUSE of medical care's improvements.

Now, does this mean we don't try to improve medicine further to reduce the mistakes? Of course not. But articles like these seem to suggest that we don't visit our doctor. That is dangerous and irresponsible.

Re:3rd Leading Cause of Death...

[maiden_taiwan]

Treat with extreme skepticism any so-called "health" web site that also sells products. (Notice all the affiliate links with kickbacks.) healingdaily.com is not a health resource, it's a business, and that's a major conflict of interest.

Because Big Business is Bad

[GuitarNeophyte]

It's probably because almost all of the research is funded by corporations that make themselves sound good. I mean, I'd rather trust someone who I didn't know, but I considered a *regular guy* instead of a paid researcher who told what to find. I mean, word of mouth advertising versus reading magazine advertisements. I'd believe word of mouth more.

Luke
----
Don't let your family be ignorant any more, send them to ChristianNerds.com (The Free Online Computer Encyclopedia)

Re:Because Big Business is Bad

[AKAImBatman]

It's probably because almost all of the research is funded by corporations that make themselves sound good. I mean, I'd rather trust someone who I didn't know, but I considered a *regular guy* instead of a paid researcher who told what to find.

Personally? I don't trust any of them. From the summary:

It seems that traditional Western medicine based on scientific evidence is less and less trusted by the general public.

Is this the same scientific evidence that said "Margarine is good", "Eggs are bad", and "We know about triglyceride problems, but we'll built the Food Pyramid this way because people are too stupid?" I'm sorry, all medical "science" does is stumble around in circles until they land on top of something remotely approaching the truth.

My take on it is, if you're actually sick (i.e. Unable to operate in some way, shape, or form), then go to the doctor. He may not be very precise, but he might just save your life. If you're not outright sick, then eat a wide variety of foods in moderate quantities and excercise. Forget about the doctors and their "fads of the week". Just do what you're going to do and enjoy your life. In the end you'll be far healthier just by being happy than you'll ever be through ravaging your body by fad diets and drugs.

Re:Because Big Business is Bad

[Intron]

MOD parent up! I read this somewhere else on the web, too!!!

Re:Because Big Business is Bad

[B'Trey]

Is this the same scientific evidence that said "Margarine is good", "Eggs are bad", and "We know about triglyceride problems, but we'll built the Food Pyramid this way because people are too stupid?" I'm sorry, all medical "science" does is stumble around in circles until they land on top of something remotely approaching the truth.

You have a valid point to some extent, but much of what you're talking about doesn't come from the scientific medical establishment - it comes from agenda-driven groups, corporate shills, and govenrment administrations who buy their propoganda. For example, actual medical science indicates that obesity isn't particularly unhealthy. Inactivity, which often accomponies obesity, IS quite unhealthy. But if you get a reasonable amount of exercise, your health isn't likely to suffer from carrying extra pounds until you reach extreme limits, well past what is specified as being obese. In fact, you're likely to suffer fewer problems from being overweight than you are from being underweight. So why is there so much talk about the "obesity epedemic" in America? Because there's a multi-billion dollar diet and diet food industry out there that wants to sustain itself, and it pours lots and lots of money into advertising and propoganda. There have been lots of studies which do not control for inactivity. Those studies show a corelation between being overweight and health problems, and assume a cause and effect, when the real cause is the underlying inactivity. But the flawed studies are still being used to support the "obesity will kill you" claim. There are lots of honest, well-meaning, but misinformed people who really believe that obesity will kill you (hell, everybody knows it, right?) and they're interested in helping save your life.

What does the science tell you about your health and your weight? If you're interested in your health, throw out the scale. DON'T go on a diet but do pay a bit of attention to what you eat. Try to get a few vegetables in your system in between the Big Macs and the beer brats. But most importantly, get your ass up off the couch and get a bit of exercise. If it trims you down a bit, great. If not, don't worry about it. It ain't that big a deal. But that's not what the nutritionist and the diet industry tell you, and their voice is much louder than the actual science.

So please don't confuse medical science with the medical establishment or with the various government guides. They aren't the same thing at all.

Re:Because Big Business is Bad

[justanyone]

If you have alot of lower back pain but aren't fat, try drinking water ONLY for a few weeks.

Two meanings for this:
1. Go on a fasting diet where you don't eat food but do drink liquids;
2. Drink more water (several more glasses per day) to your normal diet;

The first concept, fasting, is of dubious value. BUT: According to the CRON diet people, and peer-reviewed research into longevity, the ONLY known way to extend the lifespan of a mouse is to reduce their available caloric intake while maintaining a proper nutritional diet. This forces the metabolism into a maintenance-mode (instead of growth-mode) so all energies are put into repairing cellular damage and decay. This method is proven to work in many animals, but is ... somewhat tedious and uncomfortable for humans, since it involves eating lots of salads (80% of diet by calorie == complex carbs, 10% protein, 10% fat). Plus, it means walking around hungry all the time.
Sure, you'll be healthy and feel great, but you'll also feel really hungry. Not sure I like the option.

The second is a reasonable response to your kidneys complaining; flush them out and keep them flushed for a bit, but don't go overboard, too much water can really put a strain on your kindeys, too, and in extreme cases (several gallons per day for many days straight) can be toxic, since your body loses electrolytes, and (b) cannot eliminate that much water.

If you constantly crave a certain type of food, whatever is in it may be lacking in your body.

Very true, but misleading. Doughnuts do not apply. If you crave carrots or broccoli or salt, this might mean you need these things or the nutrients they contain. If you crave Ho-Ho's, your body is just being gluttenous.

Re:Because Big Business is Bad

[Martin Blank]

As I understand it, extra weight isn't unhealthy (and may actually be healthier on average than "proper" weight), but true obesity (defined as 25% to 30% body fat content, depending on what sources you use) is a health problem that can bring about a number of ailments, including liver and kidney diseases and congestive heart failure. However, true obesity is also less common than many studies would have you think.

Your point on exercise is important, though. The people that I've seen that are generally in shape are those that are willing to put in even a little bit of effort, even if they eat too much. There's no need to do an hour on a treadmill and a dozen laps in the Olympic pool; sometimes it's just as simple as taking the 20 minute walk instead of the ten-minute drive (people in the city know this one) or playing in the pool for a little while a few times a week. If you can learn to fidget, this may also help, as the extreme end of this can actually handle a few hundred calories a day, but if you have touchy coworkers, this may not be the best option. :)

Re:Because Big Business is Bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this the same scientific evidence that said "Margarine is good", "Eggs are bad"

No, they never said anything of the sort. YOU, as the general population, took what they DID say and made 3-word sentences out of it because that's all you're capable of understanding.

Medical science is usually very fair about what they know and don't know, it's what happens when the information gets out into the uneducated masses that it changes into some degenerate version of itself.

Re:Because Big Business is Bad

[AKAImBatman]

You have a valid point to some extent, but much of what you're talking about doesn't come from the scientific medical establishment

It's easy to blame the "corporate shills", but the examples I mentioned (with margarine, perhaps, being the only exception) are really what medical science preached. There didn't use to be any differentiation between "good cholesterol" and "bad cholesterol". Nor was the Food Pyramid built by corporations. (If it was, you can be certain that it would tell you to get your daily intake of Captain Crunch, Coca-Cola, and Ho Hos.)

The key to the seeming "But science knows this yet does this" dicotomy is the fact that quite a few things are winding their way through research long before they ever reach the trenches. For example, there was medical evidence suggesting the two types of cholesterol 20 years ago, but medical science moves so slow that it didn't get fully studied and sent to the trenches until 10+ years later.

Is that a REALLY long time to wait for results? Well, yes. Unfortunately, that's just the nature of the beast. Medical Science is very concerned about not making things worse, so they take their time and try to get it right. The problem is that they spend the time in between trying to make things "better" by using their existing knowledge to mess with and adjust things that shouldn't be adjusted. As a result, it's much better not to bother with Doctors unless you actually have a problem. Live happy, and you'll live healthy. :-)

Re:Because Big Business is Bad

[psylew]

Two meanings for this:
1. Go on a fasting diet where you don't eat food but do drink liquids;
2. Drink more water (several more glasses per day) to your normal diet;

Third meaning: replace your current soda, tea, coffee, etc. intake with plain water. You don't have to add more (though it might be a good idea), just replace all the other stuff you drink anyway.

Re:Because Big Business is Bad

[maxpublic]

Forget about the doctors and their "fads of the week".

You've got to be kidding. You think DOCTORS have fads of the week??? Jesus H., just take a look at all the people who AREN'T doctors and then you'll see real fads in action.

There's a saying (taken from an old SF writer) that 90% of what you read on the internet is crap. When it comes to health care, 99% of what you read on the internet is crap primarily because the people spewing it around in one big technicolor yawn don't have the first fucking clue what they're talking about. Most of this 'health care advice' is on par with astrology or crystal power.

While I'll be the first to admit (from personal experience) that there are doctors out there who should never have been awarded an M.D., I'll definitely give more weight to the advice of a doctor than I'll some internet idiot who's decided that he's qualified to dispense medical advice simply because he thinks his vast intellect outstrips that of every doctor in existence.

Max

Re:Because Big Business is Bad

[loom_weaver]

I like this cron diet. I enacted it immediately by adjusting my /etc/crontab from:

17 * * * * root perl -e 'chomp'

to:

1 1 17 * * root perl -e 'chomp'

Now lets see those pounds fall off.

Re:Because Big Business is Bad

[ChatHuant]

I'm sorry, all medical "science" does is stumble around in circles until they land on top of something remotely approaching the truth.

Are we talking about the same medical science that eradicated smallpox (a sickness that killed up to 40% of the afflicted and caused the death of about 2 million people in only in the year 1967)? The same medicine that reduced the cases of polio in the world from 350000 in 1988 to 759 in 2005 (till now)?

I'm sorry, but your complaints about margarine and/or eggs don't seem very significant when compared to those successes. So, medicine messes up sometimes. What science doesn't? The whole thing about sciences is that established beliefs are challenged again and again, and, when found faulty, they get replaced. Medicine is more exposed to distrust: few care whether fire is caused by an exothermic oxidation reaction or by phlogiston leaving the burning log; but when their health is in the balance, people get very interested. And I agree that many medical practitioners and researchers could do with learning better statistic and experimental methods. But let's not discard the whole thing because it can't give us exact guidance on margarine.

It's from bash.org

[mnemonic_]

The original: http://www.bash.org/?492775

do i have this?

[pintomp3]

we actually have a jumpy user who calls/emails every time she hears about a new virus, gets an error message, sneezes, etc. we haven't heard much from her since upgrading her to xp. either everything is working or she's dead.

paranoid + non-technical = headache.

Remedy

[savagedome]

Meanwhile, some dubious theory from the Internet will be swallowed hook, line and sinker nine times out of 10.

While the statement looks to be true on surface, a friend of mine had a life changing experience after reading a theory.

He played basketball in college and had some knee problems that eventually prohibited him from continuing to play. He was getting physiotherapy done but it was only a temporary relief. The doctors that he went to basically said that he might have to live with that. So, out of all desperation, he turned to Google and started digging up details based on his symptoms. And after a while, he took his research to a few doctors. One of them actually took initiative saying that it was an area that he had not previously explored. So, the doctor did some study and possibly discussed it with experts in the field. My friend had an operation done 3-4 years ago and he is as good as he used to be before the problem.

So, 9 out of 10 might be bogus but still if you have nowhere else to go, that remaining 1 out of 10 might help.

hook, line and sinker

[krgallagher]

"Meanwhile, some dubious theory from the Internet will be swallowed hook, line and sinker nine times out of 10."

I agree. I have many relatives who are online but not really technology savvy. Not a month goes by that I do not get CC'ed on some ridiculous email. I always go look it up on Snopes and do a reply to all with a link the Snopes article discrediting it. The thing that really gets me though, is a couple of times a year I will get one of these from someone who knows better. When I call them on it, I usually get the same response, "Well I figured better safe than sorry." Some how they just do not understand that by forwarding unsubstantiated false information they are perpetuating the problem.

Re:hook, line and sinker

[jasongetsdown]

I would not necessarily trust Snopes in all instances either.

Consider their entry on the nursery rhyme "ring around the rosie." We have probably all heard that it is about the black plague. Although I do not affirm or contest this myself, Snopes contests it but with questionable evidence. In fact the evidence they use to discredit the claims that it is about the plague seems to discredit them. Observe:

Likewise, multiple meanings are claimed for the repetition of "ashes" at the beginning of the last line:
A representation of the sneezing sounds of plague victims.
A reference to the practice of burning the bodies of those who succumbed to the plague.
A reference to the practice of burning the homes of plague sufferers to prevent spread of disease.
A reference to the blackish discoloration of victims' skin from which the term "Black Plague" was derived.

The word "ashes" cannot be "a corruption of the sneezing sounds made by the infected person" and a word used for its literal meaning.
Either "ashes" was a corruption of an earlier form or a deliberate use; it can't be both. Moreover, the "ashes" ending of "Ring Around the Rosie" appears to be a fairly modern addition to the rhyme; earlier versions repeat other words or syllables instead (e.g., "Hush!", "A-tischa!", "Hasher", "Husher", "Hatch-u", "A-tishoo") or, as noted above, have completely different endings.

Is it just me, or do all those sound like sneezing. The sneezing a person afflicted with plague perhaps? They appear to have confirmed this interpretation, which interpretation undermines their whole argument.

So the lession is, just because they are cynical about rumors and urban legends, doesn't mean they are correct.

Feeling in Control

[Shannon Love]

Self-diagnosing makes people feel more in control of their health. People perceive doctors as authority figures who take control away from the patients. People do not perceive sources they find on their own as controlling (even though many of the sources do have their own agendas) so they adopt the source's explanation rather than the doctors.

The desire to feel in control is such a powerful drive that people will trade concrete benefits like money or expert advice for the mere illusion of control.

That....

[jayhawk88]

....and pharmaseutical companies are telling us every commercial break that things like heartburn, insomnia, and arthritis are threats to our very lives.

Doctors

[coflow]

I can't really empathize with doctors on this one. The last 4 or 5 times I've seen a doctor over probably the past 10 years, they have completely kept me in the dark with what's been wrong. I come in with congestion, or a cough, or a sore throat, and the result is always the same, they give me a new antibiotic, an inhaler, and some pseudophedrine.

I end up going to web md or some other website to do research and deduce what my symptoms point to. It seems like doctors no longer take the time to assess symptoms and determine what is actually wrong, they just dispense a few prescriptions, sign some paperwork, and send the patient on their way. It's not wonder that people want to get more info than what the MD profession is offering.

Doctors arent always right you know...

[TooncesTheCat]

I have been suffering with some pretty fucking bad digestion problems all my life. I have the hershey squirts alot and real bad cramps in my stomach. I went to the gastrointestinal doctor here in my home town for a endoscopy and colonoscopy. He diagnosed me with IBS syndrome and sent me on my marry way saying it was just a nervous stomach. After suffering for 4 more years of that crap I decided to try and figure out what the hell was wrong with me. I googled my symptoms and found my symptoms closely related to Celiacs Disease...Almost identical in everyway to the people with Celiacs of what they described. I went to another doctor the week after reading the Celiacs website and was diagnosed after another biopsy as having Celiacs. Only after using the web to help me find out my symptoms was I actually diagnosed properly. Google saved my bowels from a lifelong of shitting and pain :/

The solutions

[WormholeFiend]

to all my medical problems arrive by the hundreds in my inbox every day!

Funny but sadly insightful

[aepervius]

Hyponchondriac is nothing. Alternativ medicine is more dangerous in my eye : people really ill getting alternative treatment and dying. And the web make for an exponential propagation of those despite that they are if not all, mostly junk.

Just have a look at all those totally supersticious claim and alternative medicine : homeopathy, colorotherapy, herbotherapy, crytsllotherapy, fengshui... Indeed we are in a demon haunted world.

I think education is the only answer, but how can you educate people when part of them learn that ID/creationism must be thaught in their class with the same footing than evolutionism, people misappropriate the definition of a theory in science, downright lie or misuse term they do not understand to support their own unscientific pet peeve, or even politic is used to support religious activity, even if there is a separation of church and state, downright disrespect, to not say hate, of science in all its form inclusive medicine.

For all wanting to learn a bit and start fighting against obscurantism I recommend this : James Randi Education Fundation (JREF I think it is called).

I think before solving hyponcondiacism we have to solve the problem of people believing in all sort of crap, and teach the tenet of the scientific method, or even if it is too much, at least teach back respect of science !!!

Frankly in comparison hyponchondriacism is nothing. It does not propagate as much damage...

Re:Funny but sadly insightful

[MightyMartian]

This whole love affair with snake oil really is an effect of the anti-rational, post-modern feel-good crap that at least some sizable minority of people in the West are buying into. These con-men see suckers a mile away, and tell them what they want to hear, that Western medicine is a collusion between drug companies and governments to make people take pills they don't need, that "folk" medicine somehow has some particular virtue that makes it superior to legitimate treatments.

I do have problems with the way drug companies have been allowed to operate, and to essentially bypass the family doctor by directly marketing to the public. But, at the end of the day, science has given us medicines and therapies that actually work, as opposed to superstitious mumbojumbo mixed with some really scientific sounding words. I'm not saying that all "alternative" therapies are bunk, but if they're not put through double-blind studies, then how the hell can anybody actually say?

Re:Funny but sadly insightful

[RCanine]

But, at the end of the day, science has given us medicines and therapies that actually work

Possible side effects of this opinion may include heart burn, loose bowels, indigestion, gas, hair loss, sexual side effects, and death. Do not take this opinion if you have cancer or may be pregnant. Certain other opinions may conflict with this opinion. A blood test may be required to detect possible liver damage. Always consult the web before buying into this opinion. See our add in Lifestyle magazine.

Re:Funny but sadly insightful

[RealProgrammer]

I think you're right about education being important.

I'll stop there. Ok, so I won't.

The ailment is called "hypochondria". A person who has it is called a "hypochondriac".

"Hypochondriacism" would be worship of hypochondriacs.

I'll assume that the other misspellings and such are the product of typographical errors. As for what I can infer is the point of your post, that bad medicine causes hypochondria, you're just wrong.

You can't cure hypochondria through education. A hypochondriac has a specific need to gain sympathy or attention by complaining about ailments. It has nothing to do with how the ailment is treated, except for getting attention from another person. Where that need comes from probably varies with the individual, but that's what the ailment is. "I hurt, help me". Sometimes it's a cry for help out of a real situation that has no other physical symptoms.

When I'm sick, and it's bad, I see a doctor. I don't go to the chiropractor, I don't activate the "prayer chain" at church, and I don't go in for copper bracelets or other such.

Bad medicine is bad for people, but so is a monopoly on medicine. The AMA/FDA/pharmacorp cartel wants their way to be the only way, and as a result senior citizens have to choose between their meds and their mortgage. Oh well, just go into the nursing home - Medicare will cover that at $50/day, but won't pay for someone to mow the yard (which might be the one thing forcing someone out of their home).

I'm not for having the government mow yards. I'm saying that a little competition is ok. The placebo effect is very strong, and you can't create it for someone as well as they can for themselves. If someone decides they'd rather go to a faith healer (i.e, 100% placebo), what's that to you? It's their life, let them live it.

The more advanced our medicine gets, the more like magic it looks, to paraphrase Sir Arthur C. Clarke. Which magic do you trust? Who benefits more by treating you - some bimbo selling candles online or a doctor who doesn't know your name but knows your insurance company?

That doctor who complains that his patients trust a web site more than they do him ought to invest in a pair of blue jeans and an '85 GMC Sierra Classic. Be seen in that, instead of your Armani suit and Lexus.

Anxiety

[quibbs0]

I'm quite a hypochondriac myself. My doctor told me a few years ago that I had General Anxiety Disorder. When I told my girlfriend at the time she asked me "How do you feel about having G.A.D.?"

I responded, "Quite frankly it makes me a little nervous."

Re:Online database

[gwydion04]

Not exactly as you described, but give The Merck Manual a try.

Re:Online database

[pcidevel]

Bad news, someone already beat you to the punch.

Trust is the reason.

[ValentineMSmith]

...quotes a doctor: 'My impression is that people believe more of what they read than what I tell them. It seems that traditional Western medicine based on scientific evidence is less and less trusted by the general public. Meanwhile, some dubious theory from the Internet will be swallowed hook, line and sinker nine times out of 10.' "

Well, the simple reason is that people don't trust their physicians anymore. Back in the Elder Days(tm) of Marcus Welby and so on, doctors took an interest in the health of their patients. A relationship was built over time. Finally, when the doc said, "You know, you need to go in and have surgery for this", a patient would do so without thinking twice because of the relationship and the longstanding trust between them.

Now, due to the way that doctors have to practice medicine (if they don't want to lose their shirts), they don't have a choice. 15 minutes in and out. No time to get to know their patients, no time to listen to the little old lady that just needs someone to talk to, no time to do anything but write a prescription and go on to the next patient. Now, when a doctor says, "That article on the internet is full of crap, you need surgery," people ask, "Why should I trust you? I don't know you."

If that doctor REALLY wants to know why people would believe an apocryphal story on the internet rather than him, he needs to look at the type of medicine he's practicing.

Note: This is not to blame him. Generally, with the reimbursement rates he's getting from the insurance plans with which he is signed, he is very limited in the amount of time he can spend with a patient. But the point remains: Speaking for myself, if someone wants to practice medicine on me, I have to trust them first. They've got lots of patients, but I only have one body. And the piece of paper on the wall saying M.D. only goes so far in building that trust.

Sign in a Doctor's Waiting Room

[Rick.C]

Sign in a Doctor's Waiting Room

"Patients are asked to not discuss or compare symptoms in the waiting room. It confuses the doctors."

my mom's a doctor...

[flabbergast]

and she gets patients constantly doing this. I didn't even know until I was watching the news with her. The reporter said "Always check the internet to make sure you're getting the best care possible" and my mom just got pissed. She started talking about all these patients coming in with self-diagnosis and demanding that she do something about it, which usually means "Give me medicine you damn quack!"

And so she has to go into pacification mode, trying to reason with the patient that he/she doesn't have lymphoma ( chills, swelling of the lymph nodes, fever, night sweats, unexplained weight loss, lack of energy, itching) but the normal, average cold virus.

Wonder why....

[GoMMiX]

My Father, 54, pays almost $400 a month for medical insurance with a $5,000.00 deductable.

My Mother, 50 and a government employee, pays in excess of $500 per month for medical insurance.

While my Mother has had extensive medical problems, my Father hasn't even had a cold in almost 20 years. Let alone been to the doctor for anything other then checkups and physicals.

Please, tell me why I should trust a medical system that costs more then the lease on my fucking BMW?

Insurance companies charge insane premiums because doctors and hospitals charge insane rates. Doctors and hospitals claim they charge insane rates because of malpractice suits, etc etc..

But it all boils down to one simple fact: In the United States medical care is overpriced.

My son was sick, in Rogers, Arkansas, and we waited FOUR HOURS in the emergency room for a TWO YEAR OLD CHILD to be cared for. Why? Because the doctors were all busy. With what? NO ONE ELSE WAS THERE FOR FOUR HOURS! How much did that cost? $800. $800 to sit there waiting for four hours to get 20 minutes with a doctor.

More simply put: People don't trust you because you don't DESERVE to be trusted.

Here's a fancy example of Doctors being the wonderful men that they are: When I was sixteen I was in a car accident. My back was broke in three places. It took me NINE MONTHS to find a doctor who would treat me. Multiple times I was told by doctors that they do not see patients whos injuries are the subject of current litigation. (IE because I was suing the woman who hit me going in excess of 100mph I was going to be refused medical treatment)

I have no respect for Doctors. I think almost all of them are cowards, liars, and theives. It's no wonder why people have a hard time accepting a Doctors word for truth -- as all to often the Doctor is wrong; though no doubt I have yet to meet a Doctor who doesn't have a holier than thou "I can't be wrong I'm better than everyone else" attitude.

In my opinion, Doctors do nothing but steal from the lower classes in a large orchestrated insurance scam. Doctors scam the insurance companies, insurance companies scam the middle and lower classes.

Illegal immigrants all get free medical treatment and we all pay for it with higher taxes.

It's just FUN ALL AROUND!

Medical community also at fault

[QuestorTapes]

The medical community; doctors, drug companies, HMOs, hospitals, researchers, etc., are also at fault here.

Despite the characterisation as "traditional Western medicine based on scientific evidence", a lot of the modern medical community act like spoiled, petty tyrants and opportunists. Many of them are no more 'scientists' than the hippie herbalist in the next building. Western medicine has wasted the currency of trust they had in the 1950 and 1960s.

Bad doctors expect to be treated as gods, refuse to justify their decisions or allow them to be independently reviewed. They expect other doctors to keep their mouths shut when they are caught flagrantly screwing up, and justify stupid decisions resulting in fatalities as "consistent with current medical practice." And most doctors, even the best, -do- protect them.

HMOs treat people like cattle and no longer give the -good- doctors time to talk with their patients. They don't know their patients -names- half the time, let alone the details of their conditions.

Drug companies release inadequately tested drugs only approved for -one- condition, then market it for everything under the sun...until they need to recall the drug because of very public fatalities or debilitating side effects. And doctors collude with them, in return perks. They aren't knowingly recommending a -bad- treatment. They're just recommending it on information they ought to know is inadequate.

Researchers, in the push to "publish or perish", spin their results to indicate much more certainty than is justified...then other studies come out saying, "Oops; we were wrong. This earlier recommendation could actually kill you. Sorry, although we never actually -told- you to do this; we just printed studies showing how amazing it was. We're not culpable."

Sure, people look stuff up on the Internet. But -most- of them do it in order to get medical information that big business has made it almost impossible to get through traditional channels (the family doctor) and absolutely necessary to cope with the systematic -misinformation- of the drug companies and researchers.

It may seem like I don't like the medical community, but that's not true. I just wish the good professionals had found the cojones to take out the trash when they still could have.

Flip side

[Mr_Silver]

It is worth pointing out that there is a flip side which has happened a few times. This is when someone doesn't feel well, is told that they're fine and it's all in their mind, only to look it up on the web and find out that they really do have some rare disease.

Another one (here in the UK) has been where someone is told that there is nothing that can be done for some problem only for them to find out using the web that something can be done about it (usually in another country).

A good example is this story about a baby born with a deformed head who was wrongly told that nothing was wrong and to live with the deformity. Thankfully, in the next four months the baby will be fine.

Not that I'm suggesting that all doctors get it wrong but once in a while the web has been a life-saver.

The Cartel

[zev1983]

Maybe it's because this fact based medical science has lost much of it's luster due to the pharmaceutical industry lying about test results and pushing their pills through psychiatrists and doctors.

I was seeing a psychiatrist a number of years ago when I was a teen, and they recommended I take a certain medication. The drug they wanted me to take was called risperidone, it has been known to cause *permanent* facial ticks and twitches. My mother and I decided that that was a risk that we didn't want to take. So the psychiatrist proceeded to argue with my mother about this for nearly 10 minutes, nearly reaching the level of yelling, insisting that this was the medication I should take. We walked out and never went back.

I've been on drugs that have made me fat, while they were supposed to help with depression. I've been on drugs that have made me flip out when they were supposed to help with anxiety. The general mantra in the field is that you keep trying stuff till you find something that works. It is basically a sham with regard to most of the psychiatric drugs.

Then there are the other, medical drugs. You've got Vioxx, which kills people, Zoloft which makes people kill people... and a whole lot of other I can't remember. Prescription drugs are the fourth leading cause of death in America.

So you think people are going to believe a system set up to reap your money and sedate your soul over some vitamins and herbs? The simple fact of the matter is that HMO, insurace companies, and the pharmaceutical industry have replaced fact based scientific medicine with corporate profits. It's not that I don't trust science, it's that I don't trust 'science' that comes from the pharmaceutical industry. They have a proven track record of lying, and killing people for profit. Once we get back sensible regulations on the industry to prevent this sort of stuff then public trust will be restored in science based medicine over crap they read online.

Munchausen Syndrome

[pipingguy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchausen_syndrome

"Munchausen syndrome is a form of psychological disorder known as a factitious disorder (the term "Munchausen syndrome" is sometimes used, incorrectly, to refer to any form of factitious disorder). Sufferers mimic real diseases, presenting a great problem to themselves and their healthcare professionals. The disorder is named after a literary figure, Baron Munchausen, a real person who was portrayed in fiction as a famous teller of tall tales."

My doctor

[XNormal]

My doctor freely admits that since medical information became accessible to anyone on the web his patients are often better informed about their specific problems than he is. Patients only need to focus on their specifc issues and are often highly motivated. The doctor still has the benefit of wider knowledge and more experience.

I know that some doctors feel threatened by this but he actually likes it. He believes an open an cooperative approach can be beneficial for both doctors and patients.

I knew a woman like that.

[crovira]

She'd watch any show with a doctor on it and she'd develop whatever illness they were describing.

She blew her credibility and any sympathy factor right out of the water when she called her mother in a twist and wailed about having prostate cancer.

Hypochondria is a hoot sometimes. :-)

Re:The multitudes

[pcidevel]

You underestimate humanity. The desire for a quick fix is nothing new and it's not growing, it's been here for centuries and it will be here for centuries to come. It's part of the human condition. It just happens to be manifesting itself in slightly different ways because the world is slightly different today than it was 100 years ago. Today we take anti-virals (which happen to work, I can testify to this, thanks to my recurring bouts of shingles), 100 years ago we lined up for snake oil (which happens to not work).

Technology has advanced, our ability to create cures has advanced, our desire for a quick fix to our ailments (be that illness, or lack of money, or lack of knowledge, or boredom, or whatever else ails us) is the same as it ever was..

The Rise Of Mysticism

[rumblin'rabbit]

Is it my imagination, or is mysticism and belief in half-baked theories on the rise?

Granted, some B.S. seems to be slowly dying out - astrology and belief in space alien visitations, for example. But others seem absolutely rampant. We are awash in homeophathic medicine, claims of psychic powers, and on and on. And, yes, I include religion in this.

I guess rationality and empiricism just aren't cool these days. Perhaps people mistake skepticism with closed mindedness. Or perhaps, deep down, they just don't care whether what they believe is true or not.

Medicine is a business

[Sun Rider]

This is a sign of a much bigger problem, many people in the US cannot afford the cost of official medicine, they're trying to find less costly alternatives.

In other countries with more or less socialized medical care (of widely varying levels of efficiency), doctors and transnational companies are trying to force the governments to have "American style" medicine, that is a carefully controlled supply of doctors, (high) prices set by medical associations, exclusive regions, constant effort to legally marginalize alternative medicine, profit-oriented control of your medical history, legally mandated medical procedures, and the creation of new categories of sicknesses that require new costly, patented medicine.

So, maybe there is some reason in not fully trusting all doctor's advice and look for a second opinion.

So I went to the doctor and...

[vudufixit]

I said, "Doc, I think I have hypochondria"
Doc: "Go on..."
Me: "Well, what are the symptoms?"
Doc: "Anything you want them to be..."

Scientific diagnosis?

[JordanH]

It seems that traditional Western medicine based on scientific evidence is less and less trusted by the general public.

While this may be true, I don't know what's scientific about a typical Doctor's diagnosis. It's just practice of an Art, based on experience. Typically, a Doctor will not setup an experiment and often, they won't even run any kind of instrumented test, they'll just ask you what symptoms you have, make some notes and make a diagnosis.

Re:The multitudes

[pcidevel]

I think this idea of the quick fix is also causing a lack of mental responsiblity... There is no more accountability anymore, just people making more excuses and using unrelated medical information to give their problem a name.

This view of mental health that is invasive in our country, especially invasive in the conservative ditto head culture in our country, is perplexing to me.

My wife had gall stones and had to have her gall bladder removed. Do you doubt the validity of her medical condition?

My mother has hyperthyroidism, and has had to take a pill every day of her life since she was a teenager (and was diagnosed). Do you doubt the validity of her medical condition?

I often get the shingles, a recurrence of the Chicken Pox virus along one nerve bundle that results in a large crusty oozing rash along a thin band around one half of my body. Do you doubt the validity of my medical condition?

My friend had appendicitis and had to be rushed to the hospital to have his appendix removed. Do you doubt the validity of his medical condition?

If all of these conditions are medically valid, why is it so hard to believe that the brain, simply another organ in our body, like our thyroid, our gall bladder, our nerves, our appendix, our heart, or any other organ, is capable of being stricken ill? I doubt you would tell your friend with intense abdominal pain, or your father with shortness of breath and chest pains, that they were just imagining a condition to avoid accountability and that they are just making excuses.

Why do we look down on people with illnesses of the brain and not people with broken arms or heart disease or any other illness? The human organism is not perfect, sometimes the pieces of the puzzle that make us tick don't work the correct way. For some reason we've decided to single out a certain group, those with mental illness, and decide they are weak, while the ones with other ailments are perfectly fine.

Doctor Supply/Demand

[Doc Ruby]

Maybe if the American Medical Association and its industry didn't keep prices artificially inflated by restricting the supply of doctors, while demand explodes, doctors would be seen as respected members of the community, rather than inaccessible luxuries.

I was in the pre-med track for 10 years, starting in junior high school, and the #1 lesson for everyone is that the system is designed to "weed out" most of the people who want to become doctors. The weeding isn't done on the basis of one's compassion, or one's committment to medical science, or even to one's skill at medical practice. In fact, those essential criteria aren't even in the game until college, or even med school. Along the way, it's just pure competition, mostly measuring how much abuse people will stand, from the program and from each other, before they quit. The system lets people study subjects that get relatively easier grades than do sciences, so they are more competitive numerically. In fact, practically everything that aspiring doctors must do to get into med school selects for people who just want to make a lot of money, are indifferent to the suffering of others (or who relish it), who discard curiosity and compassion in favor of absolute focus on the bottom line: protecting their time and money from any threat, including patients.

Sure, doctors have to deal with insurance (patient and malpractice, at each end) and other dehumanizing bureaucracies when they start to practice. But by then they're in the doctor supply, so it's only the prospect of that that inhibits "people people" from staying in the game. Not only does the med school track select for people ill suited to be "caregivers" (rather than mechanics or drug pushers), it just artificially reduces the supply of people trained to help other people's medical conditions. And of course our high-stress, high-pollution, bad-diet lives create ever more medical problems to treat. The combination supply/demand problem means not enough doctors to treat too many patients, driving up prices, and driving a wedge between the people who need some of the utmost intimacy to succeed in their relationship.

Doctors make a lot of money. Pharma and insurance companies make even more. It's practically all profit: the costs of running a doctor's practice are large only when counting their insurance, which is of course driven up by the supply/demand crisis. We should extract enough of those profits, especially from insurance and pharma companies, to double or triple the number of doctors. We should expand medical schools across the country. Require the top 20% of schools, which depend on public subsidies for their research (which they then sell for profit), to double the number of graduates they produce. We have at least that many people who want to be doctors, including foreigners who need retraining/recertification, that could change the supply picture within 5-10 years. And we should require every med student who receives government subsidies to relocate to an underserved community for at least as long as they were paid to go to school - usually at least 7 years. If they're going to cash in on socialist financing of their careers, the people should get what we pay for: more doctors for more people, not more golfers at Boston golf courses.

Re:Doctor Supply/Demand

[Doc Ruby]

Modern medicine wouldn't agree with the "burn them into insensitivity" strategy currently employed. Much more effective would be extra time spent learning more psychology, rather than "gut courses" which serve solely to eliminate candidates. Explicitly the psychology of the kinds of patients mentioned in this story. And conflict resolution. Then doctors could better manage their own stress, as well as that of their patients. The overall med school structure, with residencies etc, will still expose doctors to their "baptism by fire". But with more doctors, the fire will be less hot, and with better education (rather than sink or swim, no matter how hardened it makes your heart) they'll be better doctors. That's the whole point.

As Terry Pratchett said...

[Illix]

"People who would not believe a High Priest if he said the sky was blue, and was able to produce signed affidavits to this effect from his white-haired old mother and three Vestal virgins, would trust just about anything whispered darkly behind their hand by a complete stranger in a pub."

--Maskerade

Personally, I feel like it has something to do with the source of the information. People automatically distrust doctors because they believe doctors have a vested interest in the outcome, whereas information on the Internet is of course provided free out of the goodness of strangers' hearts who have nothing to sell you.

HMO's -You get what you pay for

[spineboy]

Doctors typically get about $7 dollars/month for HMOpatients, weather they use the doctors service. Many people sign up with an HMO and then expect Merceded-Benz medicine when they're paying for Yugo medicine. Would the Doctor like to spend more time with you - of course, but since they are now working for the "man" - i.e. the HMO, they arelimited to seeing patients every 5 minutes just to keep pace.

Will hiring more MDs fix the problem- NO! because DOctors are typically working all the time -getting calls from hypochondriacs, and from people who are actually sick. Familly practice and Pediatricians are about the lowest paid MDs around and they start around $80k in Kalifornia - and that's for working around 70 hours a week.

Lesson is if you want a better service - you need to pay for it.

Hysterical pregnancy!

[Cultural Sublimation]

As some have pointed out, many generations of medical students have experienced a similar problem when they go through the very long list of known illnesses. ("Oh my god, I have hysterical pregnancy! No wait, I'm a man...")

However, medical students are well aware of this phenomenon (at a rational level) and soon get over it. The problem with having so much medical information (even assuming it is all trustworthy) available to the general public is that your average person has no preparation whatsoever to deal with it. Expect to find plenty of aunties with prostate cancer... :-)

Despite all of these pitfalls, I think the advantages of having broader access to information still outweight the disadvantages. If not for anything else, it keeps doctors on their toes: they are not the sole guardians of the "mystical medical knowledge" anymore.

At last, consider that in some cases you may discover on the Internet "second opinions" about some medical treatments which otherwise you would be totally ignorant about. Check this story for a very enlightening example.

Re:Yeah, but doctors don't listen either...

[gosand]

jeez, which country do you live in?

The good ol' USA. Now don't question me again or I'll invade your country or steal your reality TV shows. ;)

Re:The multitudes

[kin_korn_karn]

As someone that has anxiety and depression problems, I agree. People are taking prozac to "cure" themselves of what would have been simple personality quirks 50 years ago.

The other side of the coin is that society is putting people in a position where any deviation from the personality norm will result in a reduction in quality of life, from causing someone to not be considered a "team player" at the office, to being harassed by people in their leisure time because they are different.

Modern education

[QuestorTapes]

> I think education is the only answer

I think the modern education system is -part- of the problem.

They teach the students that 'there are no absolutely right answers' and 'people are entitled to their opinions', so that students don't realize that some things are demonstrably true and others are demonstrably false.

They teach students that there is no fundamental difference between information gathered from a poll of 100 random people on the New York subway system and the results of a laboratory experiment in controlled conditions.

They teach students that even though the subject of the class is english composition/world history/archaeology/moleculary biology, you'll really be graded on how well you agree with the instructor's view that "the real terrorism today is how America treats women/minorities/third world countries."

They teach students that the longer the list of degrees after your name, the more worthwhile the book you wrote.

Re:Modern education

[Mo Bedda]

I think the modern education system is -part- of the problem.

I agree with you. But I disagree with most of your reasons.

I didn't really experience political bigotry at school. There were a few teachers/professors who were politically vocal; but I never felt it my academic success hinged on agreeing with a professor's politics.

My father is a professor of physics and astronomy. And though you would probably consider him a crack-pot liberal, I have never once heard him tell a story of how his lecture diverged into a discussion of terrorism or defense spending. But with increasing regularity he is being challenged to how explain modern astronomy in light of the "fact" that the Universe cannot be more than 6000 years old.

I'm all for keeping politics as far out of education as possible, except where that is the area of study. However, I believe there are already ethics standards and enforcement systems in most places which can be used to control this.

I hear far more about the problem of political bias in education than I ever experienced it. I think most of the political noise around the issue is mainly being used to push for things like ID and young Universe theory, and as a club to beat down voices which do not adhere to the party line.

That's because...

[eno2001]

...a lot of doctors and pharmaceutical corporations are no longer operating with the patient's best interests at heart. They are soley driven by money and they are overprescribing certain profitable meds. Look at the whole Celebrex fiasco. The company knew that Celebrex caused problems, but decided that it was better to make money even if people died.

We also have a massive epidemic of medical prescriptions for supposed A.D.D. kids. Did anyone ever stop and think that the A.D.D. kids might just be... I don't know... normal bored kids? I used to day dream in class a lot because the subject matter sucked. But I wasn't sitting there totally spaced even though it looked it. I was doing circuit design in my head for various projects (robots to kill the school bullies, bombs to blow up teacher's cars that I didn't like, remote display systems so that I could gain access to computer systems remotely during dull history tests, etc...). Or when I was wandering all over the place during basketball games in gym class... that wasn't A.D.D. That was just that I hate sports and find competition to be an abrasive characteristic. Cooperative games, I was all into. (You know. The thing like taking the parachute and throwing it up as a group and huddling underneath it and then throwing it up again and siting outside of it. Now that's my idea of fun sports.)

Then we have the problem of big pharma pushing antibiotics without warning people that they should be replenishing their G.I. tract with probiotics lest other horrific diseases infest your body. I had a very personal experience with this. Horrible sinus infections every year since my teens. So... the cure? Antibiotics. Sure I was happy and I got better, but I didn't realize the damage that was being done. Every year the sinus infections got incrementally worse and I had to take longer and longer course of antibiotics. Finally when I was in my late 20s, I was prescribed a new (and very dangerous) antibiotic in the Quinolone family. It was called Levaquin. After the first few days of taking it, I had unbelievable depression. I told my doctor that I thought it might be caused by the Levaquin even though it makes no scientific sense since antibiotics are not psychoactive. He agreed and said, just keep taking them. I did, and it just got worse and worse. After the 14 days, it took me about two or three months to start feeling normal again.

The next year, I had a really bad infection but didn't want to feel that horrible depression again. I did some searches on the net and discovered that other people were reporting depression caused by Levaquin in various forums. So I realized I wasn't alone. Unfortunately, I still had the sinus infection and still wound up taking antibiotics, but I was able to tell my doctor to skip the Levaquin. (Levaquin is being pushed hard right now because it supposedly has fewer side effects than other antibiotics) This time around, I got a horrible skin rash that was extremely uncomfortable. Again 10-14 days of antibiotics. But this time two weeks after the course ended, the sinus infection came back. So I was on the meds again for another 14 day course. An entire summer ruined.

The next year, same thing... Horrible sinus infection even worse than the previous year. I wound up doing still more reseearch on the net and found some information on systemic yeast infections. The symptoms were identical to mine and the root cause in many cases appears to be antibiotics. Even more research revealed that the company that makes Levaquin finally acknowledged that Levaquin can cause depression and suicidal thoughts in "a small number" of patients. Sorry, but ANY number of people with depression or suicidal thought is too large.

I had experienced the suicidal thoughts myself, but it's not connected to depression. It's actually a lot like a safety mechanism gets switched off in the brain and you forget very basic things you should be aware of to keep safe. I almost took a drill to my head because