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ESRB Revokes San Andreas Rating
Alex Blonski writes "In a stunning move, the ESRB has advised retailers to stop selling Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. This report follows public pressure over the Hot Coffee debacle. Rockstar, the publishers of the game have given retailers the option of restickering the game with an 18+ rating or exchanging it for a new version with the controversial content removed. ESRB head Patricia Vance says 'After a thorough investigation, we have concluded that sexually explicit material exists in a fully rendered, unmodified form on the final discs of all three platform versions of the game (i.e., PC CD-ROM, Xbox and PS2). However, the material was programmed by Rockstar to be inaccessible to the player and they have stated that it was never intended to be made accessible. The material can only be accessed by downloading a software patch, created by an independent third party without Rockstar's permission, which is now freely available on the internet and through console accessories. Considering the existence of the undisclosed and highly pertinent content on the final discs, compounded by the broad distribution of the third party modification, the credibility and utility of the initial ESRB rating has been seriously undermined.'"
In a move equally stunning to neglegent parents everywhere, Captain Obvious has advised that people stop paying attention to the ESRB and take a more proactive stance in monitoring the content that they're buying for their kids. He also advised that parents pay more attention to other aspects of games, such as violence and racial overtones, and not use sex alone as a deciding factor for whether or not to buy a game, movie, music CD, etc. Experts predict that people will ignore this advice and continue to rely on other people to raise their kids for them.
One can show pixel people gettin blown up by all kinds of pixel weapons, yet when there's one pixel nipple to be seen, the whole country goes up in arms about it?
because of the "nude Sims" patch floating around?
The funniest thing is that all these people that raised a stink over the "Hot Coffee" mod are just bringing free publicity to an already very popular game. They're essentially giving Rockstar free advertising.
In GTA San Andreas, you can mow down innocent pedestrians one one side of the street whilst smashing up your stolen car. That's fine, that's an M rating for you. What? There's sex too?! Dear God man, pull it from the shelves!
Society depresses me.
As a British person (of 15 years of age), I pity you Americans. What the fuck is your problem with the human body? Why an 18+ when the 17+ was appropriate for the game, even with the minigame?
Why revoke the rating on the XBox/PS2. It is impossible to get to that content in these versions. Only way on the PC version is through a software patch. Sure the stuff is in there, but it isn't like Rockstar left this content open for anyone to access. I'm guessing this kind of stuff is more common in computer games than we even know. Just that this is the first one where someone was able to unlock that content.
Clearly in that critical year you become mature enough to be allowed to consume renderings of fully clothed individuals in sexual positions.
Seventeen year-olds just aren't ready for that kind of stuff yet. Their exposure to sexual situations should be limited to what they do with their boyfriends/girlfriends in the back seat of their parent's car when they're "at the movies."
Oh, BTW, to all the parents out there... Your 8 year old probably says 'fuck' all the time when he knows you're not around, so you can get over yourself already.
Starting bid of $100 for this banned game.
It's the land of the brave, and the home of the free
Where the less you know, the better off you'll be.
From TFA:
Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. (NASDAQ: TTWO - News) announced today that the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) has changed the rating of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas on all platforms from "Mature 17+" (M) to "Adults Only 18+"
So basically, they've made the decision that 17 year-olds just shouldn't see this two-bit low-res porn hack, and stick with the carjacking, wanton murder, and other wholesome activites within GTA. 18 year-olds are qualified for the whole ball o' wax, though.
Amazing...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
This whole debacle is bad news. If retailers don't stop selling it, we're all in trouble. If the ESRB loses all credibility, the only thing stopping a full-on onslaught of legislative parenting will be gone. If the video game industry 'can't be trusted' to rule itself, the government will have to step in. Australia-like bans will be coming to a USA and Canada near you.
CC Licensed Serialized Story and Podcast: Ingenioustries
Come to think of it, no. Bring on the guns and bombs.
Stick Men
As a game developer, sometimes you write something and the suits say you can't put it in, so you just comment out the call to activate it. It's a lot easier than pulling all the source and assets out of the game. Time pressures abound and a thirty-second fix impresses the higher-ups a lot more than a two-day hunt to find and remove all of the offending assets.
-- Too lazy to get a lower UID.
This makes absolutely no difference because the content is just as inaccessible to the player.
This could spell out some big problems for coders when they take their easter eggs too far. Of course, what else is on the average programmers mind?
The thing that amuses me the most about this whole episode is that senators and other publicity hounds never noticed the game when it was just violence, madness and mayhem, but shock of shocks, a character "gets a cup of coffee" and skin friction ensues, and the next thing you know, this is the worst thing that could ever possibly have happened to our kids!
Me, I would prefer my kid watch a porn flick any day rather than "Natural Born Killers" or play a video game with tawdry pixels as opposed to trying to see how many crimes can be committed in order to get a high score.
After all, who gets hurt by a good (consensual) boffing?
Well, yeah, I know about sex and responsiblity. So spare me the usual screed. But if you do, pleas explain at the same time a way to "responsibly" carjack or murder someone.
In other news...
Hillary Clinton (who makes ~$162k http://people.howstuffworks.com/question449.htm) has decided that it's in her best interest to waste her time (and our tax dollars). I'm sure that the FTC has better things to do than to investigate RockStar Entertainment... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4682533.stm
i mean really. if a kid can download and apply a patch, he is already in a position to see way more nudity than what is offered in this game.
you may think that's a strawman, bringing up internet porn, but think about it. the point of the ESRB rating is to inform the parents of the content of the game. which, in my opinion, the "M" rating did accurately. the sex scenes aren't in the game. they were disabled.
from a parent's standpoint, what is the difference between downloading a third-party mod that enables disabled content, and applying a third-party mod that adds newly-created content? they are identical in their difficulty/accessibility to a kid, and both insert content into the game that the developer did not intend to appear there!
it is drawing boobies on the title page of "Harry Potter" and then sueing JK Rowling, citing an unfinished but steamy scene she deleted from her hard drive as evidence.
i could live a little longer in this prison
The game allows you to...
- Pull people out of their cars and drive away in them
- Steal military weapons
- Destroy property
- Injure and kill completely innocent bystanders
- Develop a criminal enterprise
- Carry out the orders of corrupt police officers
- Pick up prostitutes
- Burn down a pot farm
and so far it's been pretty smooth sailing, but once you can have vivid consensual sex, but only through extensive third party modification, everyone flips out?![Lameness filter adjustment]
"Holy Crap What The Hell Is Wrong With You PEOPLE!"
A Puritan landed on the shores of New England.
I was not going to buy this game but with the 18+ rating I might be inclined to change my mind.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
Am I the only one completely overwhelmed by the sheer idiocy of this situation?
I mean ignoring the fact that violence is alright while sexual intercourse sparks a massive outrage.
The content is UNPLAYABLE!!! It cannot be played! If you get a copy of the game can you just pop it in and see this naughty content?
No.
Why?
Because it's UNPLAYABLE!!
Wait!! You mean you can download something off the internet that lets you play this naughty content **GASP** What an outrage!! That someone going onto the internet could gain access to pornographic content. It's completely unheard of. Clearly this is a matter of national importance that a game can be made pornographic with things downloaded off the internet!
This whole situation is just a bizarre combination of sexual prudism combined with a complete lack of technical knowledge, I'm ashamed to be on the same continent where stuff this ignorent stupidity occurs.
I stole this Sig
The SIMS has an ESRB rating of E-T (Everyone/Teens). However, there is a patch available for The SIMS that removes the dithering done when they are changing clothes, allowing one to see buck naked SIMS!. Doesn't this mean the ESRB should also revoke The SIMS "Everyone" rating?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Unfortunately, show me a country that doesn't rely on war to keep the peace and I'll show you a country that is ripe for the taking by one that does.
Switzerland?
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
I don't think I've ever seen that in a game, and rarely have I seen in in movies. Screwing and fucking in lust, yes, but never what you described.
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
But where do you draw the line? The physics/mechanics of the game are just as much a part of the games as the models and skins if not more. Changing the the state of a door is more of a change than changing a skin.
i could not think of anything clever.
What would the reason be to put it in there then? Perhaps the publicity that they are getting now?
The game is rated "mature". If you can develop a relationship with a girlfriend, and you can also pick up scantily clad hookers and screw them so well that they squeal with delight, and you can also indiscriminately kill a row of people from afar, and also kill someone in vivid close up detail, work out at the gym and watch your muscles grow, or watch your character get fat at a burger joint to impress a girlfriend, why would having sex with girlfriend be such a departure from the rest of the theme of the game?
The development team was probably entrusted with total creative freedom. As it neared release and was shown to people in the company who understand the American political landscape, they probably told them to nix some features, including the graphic sex with girlfriend one ("but leave in the prostitutes, that never gets old").
I don't understand why the "mature" rating still doesn't apply.
This nonsense is coming from American morons and Shrubby is their moron king.
Actually, this specific non-sense is pouring from the liberal side of the US governemnt. Clinton, Lieberman, etc. They have been itching to go after GTA for years, but could not as Americans love the macho gore as part of the entertainment. Thus they waited until they can make that into a "think of the children" deal.
The funny part is that I have not heard a word from the conservative side, although the religious right I am sure is on the same side. It is currently the moderate republicans and libertarians that have the most sense these days.
Oh, and do not blame the GTA deal on Prez. Shrub. He is not turning those gears in motion. Blame the nanny-state liberals for this one.
badness 10000
The flaw in your analogy is clear: Accidents happen and bottles can break, releasing the illicit substance. There is nothing the player can do short of a direct and intentional modification that causes this code to become active.
Just like in the dark ages: you can have public executions and torture sessions but you cant even _think_ about sex.
history repeats itself...
Switzerland?
I think the more technically correct challenge should have been "show me a country that doesn't rely on it's ability to fight a war to keep the peace". In that case, Switzerland doesn't qualify as practically every dang person in the country has a government-issued assault rifle and attends Schutzenfest regularly, the idea being that the whole country is the army, even the women. This (plus the terrain) is the real reason why the Schweiz have been able to stay "neutral": they're essentially unconquerable.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
They never said the content was inserted, they said the game was modified, which is true.
Oh, come OFF it. That passage is all but incomprehensible gobbledegook for anybody who isn't a programmer. "Altering the game's source code" sounds an awful like inserting the entire thing into the game. This is nothing but atrocious doublespeak which any politician would be proud of.
So no, TECHNICALLY they did not claim the hacker did it, but the message was carefully worded to give that impression to the average person. But in court, they can weasle out of the statement by explaining that setting bits in the binary is what they meant by "altering the source code."
It's WEASEL WORDING.
Fuck off ESRB , the rating is for 18+s , And im sorry if you find sex offensive (even in its highly comical computerised form) ) then you really need your head checked . . ,morals and ethics and carnal-forbearance (thanks marge) are what cause problems. .
Sex is the principle Method of reproduction for our species , its important , it is a lot of fun , it is freely accessible and it is not going to disappear.
anyone over the age of 18 offended by some slight sex in a game filled with violence(which is a lot of fun) is seriously in need of some social education or mental help
I am very glad i do not live over there at this moment
Seriously , Censorship is the job of the parents not the state
ESRB you are officially a bunch of a fascist bastards
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
well how about this, you make a game and it has to be out by christmas 2006.
that gives you little over a year to make a fully working, bugless game.
you work and work and work on it and manage to make it just in time for testing, so testers test it and they find the bugs they get fixed and the game is sent off for Rating.
it comes back with an M rating for something, you only have a week left before this game has to be to the printer for production if it's ment to meet the christmas deadline, only problem is the higher ups want this to be a T rated game and want it out on christmas no matter what.
Will you lose your job over telling them that there ins't enough time to remove the M rated content and they just higher someone else who can do a quick fix? or do you simply write a quick fix to disable it so it meets the deadline?
Oh, and do not blame the GTA deal on Prez. Shrub. He is not turning those gears in motion. Blame the nanny-state liberals for this one.
You're absolutely right, and I'm glad you put in the "nanny-state" qualifier. However, I'd like to point out that most liberals are socially libertarian. The people who danced around naked in the Summer of Love and the folks who brought us the sexual revolution are about as liberal as you can get.
This just shows once again that the Democrats are not REAL liberals. I suspect they would have more success if they were. I'm not really sure what to call soccer-mom puritanism - vote-whoring comes closest, I guess.
I yearn for you tragically. A. T. Tappman, Chaplain, U.S. Army.
Having seen the video for the Hot Coffee Mod and using the no-blur code on The Sims 2 I call bullshit. Sure, you get to see Sims take a shower or bath, but they have no, what's the polite term... "naughty bits" to see. You get half a point because the Hot Coffee mod has no nudity (at least the video I saw didn't have any). But more sex?
Have you even played Sims 2? I'm thinking you haven't. If you had you'd know that the sex all happens hidden under blankets, under water, or behind the dressing room curtains. And what little that is actually animated is more appropriately described as "tickle fight".
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Yeah, cuz "Hot Coffee" is all about the procreative "love". Right there in between the homicide.
Two questions:
First, that's the difference between unlocking "fully rendered, unmodified" content that was never meant to be accessible to the user in the shipped product and a third party just adding in that content themselves?
Second, what's the difference between having content that was never meant to be accessible to the user in the shipped product and that content not existing at all?
Really? Well I'm glad you've settled that debate. Publish your research that prooves this quickly and you'll be a millionaire.
sig
I'm not sure I understand. From TFA: What exactly is so bad about this? It has a different rating. So what? The ESRB is doing their job. From the ESRB website What all of that means is that the ratings assigned by the ESRB are intended to be used as a guide, such that the consumer has a general idea of what to expect. Parents that are using these ratings in place of discretion appropriate for the individual child are taking a general recommendation and treating it like the gospel.
Additionally, the ESRB is not in the business of modifying games. Their job is not to find content that is not accessible through game play. The argument that the content is accessible through game play is nonsense. A patch was required in order to access the scene in question. For the ESRB to apply unofficial patches to a game at any point during testing would be completely unethical. It is doubtful that anyone on the ratings board sees code regularly as part of their job; there is simply no need.
The purpose of the ESRB is to evaluate a game for content and issue a rating to inform parents of what to expect. With what was known at the time, this is exactly what they did. Take careful note: in light of new content discovered in this game, the ESRB has changed its rating. This is not arbitrary; ratings are determined based on the material in a game, and this game now meets the criteria for an AO rating.
Furthermore, the magnitude of this issue the result of little more than Hillary Clinton's political campaign. Were this a truly important concern to the former first lady, this type of video game modification would have been under fire years ago. The patch for The Sims that caused all of the characters to walk around completely naked has long since been forgotten.
This display of political impropriety is clearly an attempt to insert Senator Clinton into the limelight to gain press attention in preparation for a presidential election, at the expense of the public perception of the ESRB's integrity. In spite of Clinton's disingenuous actions and the difficult situation they have created, the ESRB has handled the matter exceptionally well.
Anyone who doesn't think it's obvious is fairly stupid. Murder is rare. There have been a million studies that have failed to find a connection between violence in the media and real life violence. Sex isn't rare. Attitudes about sex are strongly influenced by culture.
Maybe that's because there's nothing wrong with sex.
I think, therefore I doh.
In fairness, Tycho has a point. We let a lot of crap slide. By all rights, GTA as shipped should have had an AO. Halo should have had an AO. The difference between the M rating and the AO rating is *one year* and a bunch of sales - it's stupid. It's exactly the same with movies, too. But as a culture we're hypocrites and every so often we need to sacrifice someone up the "think of the children" gods, and Rockstar certainly has put themselves out there to be the goat.
If you, as parent, approved of GTA for your child last week, and now don't because a patch downloaded from the internet can show you non-explicit sex, then you're a shitty excuse for a parent and a worse one for a human, and regardless what Rockstar did or didn't do, and regardless of they hypocritical bullshit pandering that the ESRB and our politicians do, you shouldn't have any say in what *any* child does. To anyone with half a brain, this is a non-issue.
I've heard this is an excelent form of birth control. And we all know that birth control ws brought to this earth by satan (quoth the fundies). This is the underlying issue here. Think of the rating change as an attack on satan and a reaffirmation of wholesome American values.
Look, including the content and making it inaccessible without a minor hack is no accident. It's a brilliant move. But it's disingenous to think that they "didn't mean" for anyone to access it.
Think about it: all the people with the PS/2 or Xbox version of the game who ran out and actually bought the PC version of the game just so they could use the Hot Coffee mod. The fact that it's going to be rated "AO" now is irrelevant - sales are going to soar for the title no matter what.
The ESRB is doing exactly what it should, and, to be honest, Rockstar is still going to benefit from it. Penny Arcade was right about just how disingenous the cries of innocence on the part of Rockstar really are. If ESRB didn't act, it would become irrelevant - and less voluntary measures would come into force.
I can't believe that no one realizes how Rockstar has had a win-win situation in all this all along.
If it's getting passed around the school yard, that means way too many young children are playing a game intended for people 17+ that they shouldn't have had in the first place.
Sexually transmitted disease.
Unwanted pregnancy.
Life-threatening STDs (HIV, Syphilis, etc)
The psychological effects
All these are things "wrong" with sex, no matter what your political/social/religous views. Depending on those views, there may or may not be MANY other things "wrong" with sex.
"there's nothing wrong with sex" is a pretty glib, and incorrect.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
The people are still having sex. But, it is apparent, that if the intent to have a baby were the basis for nude acts of lovemaking, no orgasm would be necessary. The existence of the pleasure from the act rather than the result demonstrates the true purpose of sex: pleasure. The intent is pleasure. Much like we don't eat to live but rather live to eat. The act is to derive pleasure from the substance so as to dampen the chemical need created inside the body for the substance. So, enjoy your sex. Those who tell you that sex is for making children are very much lying to you as to the meaning of sex. Reproduction is ancillary to the motive. As it should and ever shall be. At least in those who survive.
Accidents
Pollution
Noise
Oil
All these things are wrong with cars, therefore cars are bad and wrong, and any game containing them should be banned.
Jeremy
The difference between the M rating and the AO rating is *one year* and a bunch of sales - it's stupid. It's exactly the same with movies, too.
No, even with movies the difference between R and NC-17 is a lot larger. For those that may not know, any parent can take their 6 year old kid into an R-rated movie at the theater. But if a movie is rated NC-17, children CANNOT attend, even with parents present. This is the reason that most theaters will not take up screenspace with NC-17 movies...the market is a lot smaller, because parents are unable to make the decision for themselves.
A parent can, however, choose to buy an AO rated game for their kids.
If you, as parent, approved of GTA for your child last week, and now don't because a patch downloaded from the internet can show you non-explicit sex, then you're a shitty excuse for a parent and a worse one for a human, and regardless what Rockstar did or didn't do, and regardless of they hypocritical bullshit pandering that the ESRB and our politicians do, you shouldn't have any say in what *any* child does. To anyone with half a brain, this is a non-issue.
Especially because last week the game was already rated M, and recommended only for age 17 and up. Unless I'm mistaken, a large portion of American teenagers age 17 and up have already had sex. It's the stupid-ass parents who didn't understand what an M rating meant and bought it for their 12 year olds that are getting so upset. And I say screw those idiots.
maybe they just forgot to remove it? I have seen a couple of games that do that - on the FarCry disks there is a random text/ini file of some description that only contains "remove this file before production" within it. Likewise, the PC release of Deus Ex: Invisible War contains a file showing the control mappings for the X-Box controller.
just because it is a commercial release product doesn't mean the company isn't too lazy to check it for faults. Maybe the Hot Coffee project was abandoned, then forgotten about, so no-one thought about taking the code out before release. Its all possible.