BBC Opens TV Listings For Remix

ntoll writes "In a continuation of their free software friendly activities the BBC has announced that they want to open up their TV listings to creative developers. They explain, 'Developers and designers are being encouraged to come up with innovative ways of using TV and radio schedules by taking part in a BBC competition. The competition, announced at the Open Tech conference in London, has been organised by the BBC's backstage developer network. Backstage lets people remix the BBC's content to make new applications. We want people to innovate and come up with prototypes to demonstrate new ways of exploring the BBC's TV schedule.'"

Comments

Remix

[Tyler Eaves]

Could people PLEASE STOP USING THIS. Seriously, shove it up your blogosphere.

Re:Remix

[JaF893]

I much prefer the term mash-up - its what all the 'cool' kids are using.

Re:Remix

[DrEldarion]

You just can't synergize with the remixing paradigm.

Re:Remix

[FleaPlus]

Could people PLEASE STOP USING THIS. Seriously, shove it up your blogosphere.

I wasn't aware that the British Broadcasting Corporation was part of the blogosphere. Anyways, although I'm sure the term sounds kind of crude to us technological elite, I suspect it conveys the general idea perfectly to those who aren't quite so familiar with the jargon.

Re:Remix

[Anonymous Coward]

but i can leverage my foot into your dynamic gateway providing a solution that will increase your expandability

Re:Remix

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

For us un-hip people not in the know: could you tell us what "remix" means in this context? The only definition I know of is what DJs do.

Re:Remix

[Tyler Eaves]

Exactly, that's my point. It seems some subset of slashdot submitters are trying to bend it to mean a hack.

Re:Remix

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Okay thanks. Remix == hack now.

Gotta remember that to look groovy with the kids :-)

Re:Remix

[XAlba]

"Yeah, dude, I just, like, totally remixed my PHP scripts."

Re:Remix

[Doc Ruby]

Please stop using the word "seriously". I know it's as appropriate to your serious proposal as is the word "remix" to the BBC project. But since everyone's using it, it must be bad.

Or maybe you're just afraid of "zeitgeist". A word I will continue to use, even if you don't know what it means.

Re:Remix

[Anonymous Coward]

Also stop using "mash-up", please, thanks.

Additionally please replace "blogging" with "faggotry" and "podcast" with "aural faggotry".

Re:Remix

[klipsch_gmx]

How the fuck is that insightful?

Re:Remix

[Anonymous Coward]

If by "cool kids" you mean "retards posting to their blogs" because they are completely socially inept and don't have a job, then I still disagree. "Mash-up" is the most infuriating word since people started perverting the use of the word "clutch" to mean... I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO MEAN!

Re:Remix

[VertigoAce]

Except that the word "remix" was used by the BBC to describe the competition. The only difference between the Slashdot headline and the BBC one is that Slashdot removed the quotes around "remix".

Re:Remix

[Anonymous Coward]

My thoughts exactly. I am so sick of all of these stupid "blogger" words, to make things worse they are finding their way into usage in less moronic areas. That people seem to use them whenever possible is what really pisses me off, how is using content from the BBC's tv guide a "remix"? Also, we sure didn't need a word to describe /. beyond tech news site or something to that effect for all these years, but if it were created by some self described "hipster" today it would be a "blog".

My least favorite aspect of "blogs", however, is their repetitive and unnecessary use of certain adjectives. On a site like BoingBoing where the editors are professional writers you can almost always find either the word "amazing" or "wonderful" used within the past two days, often more than once. I also don't like the way that they will frequently use a string of annoying adjectives.
For example: Sue Doe Hipster sent me an email about this amazing, wonderful, beautiful Flickr pool mashup.

Interesting note: To confirm this before I posted it I did a page search of BoingBoing and a post came up by the amazing, wonderful, funny, sexy Xeni about how BoingBoing comes up as the top result in google when you search for wonderful.

Re:Remix

[mabinogi]

> Also, we sure didn't need a word to describe /. beyond tech news site or something to that effect for all these years, but if it were created by some self described "hipster" today it would be a "blog".

Actually, the first time I ever heard the term "web log" was describing slashdot (somewhere around 98 or 99), and slashdot fits the early definitions of blog far better than most "online diary with ocasional external links" sites that carry the blog label today.

Re:Remix

[Anonymous Coward]

Erm, did you read the article? The word 'remix' is applied to the concept of using the BBC TV schedule in different contexts. Personally, I can't say I find that to be an appropriate or meaningful use of the word; when I read the headline, I assumed BBC were to encourage 'remixes' of video content based on their usage of trendy, but inaccurate, terminology.

Note #1: I'm not the GP.
Note #2: Yes, I know what 'zeitgeist' means. I'd suspect the majority of slashdot's readership. If you need a word that makes you appear simultaneously arrogant, indecipherable, and intellectually superior, you really should spend some more quality time with your thesaurus. However, both you(given that you just used a word while explicitly stating that you believed your intended audience would not understand it) and the BBC would do well to remember that the primary purpose of human language is communication. If your desire to slavishly obey the zeitgeist's(ha!) every whim seriously impairs your ability to communicate - as in the BBC's case here - it's time to reconsider what you are trying to accomplish.

Re:Remix

[Doc Ruby]

#1: You're an Anonymous Coward. Who cares what you think?
#2: Just because you don't know what "remix" means today doesn't mean that others don't, either. So BBC wants people to remix their schedules, not necessarily the items in it?
#3: So you're not the person I said doesn't know what "zeitgeist" means, and you do know what it means. So what? The rest of your post is gibberish, too. So you can't communicate with the current meaning of the word "remix" - the rest of us are doing just fine.
#4: I am intellectually superior to you. That doesn't make me arrogant, even if I am anyway - superiority to Anonymous gibbering Cowards isn't the grounds for that. If words like "zeitgeist" spook you, you should act your age: and shut up. Let those of us who can form a cogent point do so, and you can just keep watching more TV they spoonfeed you.

Re:Remix

[JaF893]

I was joking.

TV Listings only..., no content?

[RKBA]

I'd be more impressed if they were releasing content instead of simply TV listings (Yes, I'm aware the BBC has released some material into the public domain recently and I applaud them for it).

Re:TV Listings only..., no content?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you release your computer hardware to me?

Re:TV Listings only..., no content?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd be impressed if they ...

a) gave me £100
b) gave me £1000
c) in general, gave me £10^n where n is a non-negative integer.

Of course, I'd always be more impressed if they gave me £10^(n+1), so screw them! ...

Re:TV Listings only..., no content?

[LiquidCoooled]

I would like to be the first person to make good on your request.

I am willing to supply you with £10 ^ n where n is a none negative integer *.

However, as a simple confirmation that you are 18 years and over, I need your credit card and account details.
Additionally, there will be a small surcharge of £2.50 for this service.

*n=0

Re:TV Listings only..., no content?

[Anonymous Coward]

£10 ^ 0 = £1

for all you that don't have school background :)

Think of the children!!!

Re:TV Listings only..., no content?

[LiquidCoooled]

thats ok, I still make a profit :)

TV Anytime eh?

[Komarosu]

All posted in TV Anytime format, even the BBC have wrote a little opensource Java API for it...

Now to hunt down a parser in PHP...

Re:TV Anytime eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Write one, you mongoloid.

Re:TV Anytime eh?

[Komarosu]

Yup, come to that conclusion myself.

Re:TV Anytime eh?

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Write one, you mongoloid.
Yup, come to that conclusion myself.

What conclusion? that you need to write one? :-)

What a challenge!

[riflemann]

Mixing videos and music - ok, that's pretty normal and doesnt take a skilled person to come up with something..

But mixing a TV guide??? A lot more of a challenge.

I guess what they are after is for example something where someone can do better seraching through the guide, or perhaps linking the information within an application.

One such thing could be linking an article or other media where you can refer it to an upcoming show on tv. Eg, you're browsing some website about natural disasters, and have it automatically tell you about an upcoming TV show about floods.

That's about the extent of my creative juices though..

Re:What a challenge!

[g0at]

No kidding. "Here is some information... you are welcome to synthesize it somehow". What is novel about this?

And where the hell does the misappropriated word "remix" come from?!

-b

Re:What a challenge!

[stevey]

Maybe bayesian filtering of upcoming shows based upon their descriptions?

So even if the program name/time isn't like anything you've liked before if the description matches something you've liked it would be recommended?

Re:What a challenge!

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

But mixing a TV guide??? A lot more of a challenge.

Why? Let's see:

Yo dude, Mau-ry-show's at four
Yo yo, Maury's piss poor
He coulda been on Star Trek at six
But he don't wanna suck Picard's dick

Bring it on bring it on, yeah
Bring it on, two thirty, right after Six Feet Under
Yo Yo dude

There. How about a little of that uh? /me waits for a call from the Beeb...

XMLTV

[Anonymous Coward]

For more than just BBC.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmltv

Re:XMLTV

[Linus Torvaalds]

Also: data sources in XML format.

Re:XMLTV

[makomk]

Incidentally, the main source XMLTV uses for UK data is the Radio Times website - which provides listings in a suitable format. Guess who owns the Radio Times? That's right - the BBC (commercial arm thereof).

Re:XMLTV

[Ed Avis]

Yes, although the Radio Times site is part of BBC Worldwide, which is the evil money-grubbing part of the BBC, they've been very enlightened and generous about providing access to listings in XML format. I think they realize it's better this way than having a thousand hacked-up perl scripts trying to fetch web pages and parse them. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Correct me if I am wrong

[bumptehjambox]

In the land of America, I've noticed any sort of free TV listing is not really free.
Any know of a truly free TV listing that can be used on my PVR?
NO filling out forms every week, I mean free.

Re:Correct me if I am wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmltv

Re:Correct me if I am wrong

[surprise_audit]

Idiot. He said, "without having to fill in a form every week".

From the XMLTV grabber for North America:

This scripts downloads listings from Zap2IT's DataDirect service, converts it to XMLTV format, and outputs the results.

You must first register with Data Direct at: Lhttp://labs.zap2it.com/>

You'll need to provide the XMLTV certificate code C (Letter O)

The data is provided free of charge, except for a short periodic web survey.

XMLTV merely fetches and formats the listings, which are provided by someone else.

Re:Correct me if I am wrong

[neoee]

Answering 5 yes/no questions once every 3 months to get tv listings is hardly a reason to complain, IMO.

I demand one thing...

[bogaboga]

...and that is the ogg theora format for all their broadcasts. Guys, we need to build critical mass fast. The BBC is a good place to start. Only God knows what M$ has in plans for Longhorn *cough*,*cough*, sorry, Vista.

Re:I demand one thing...

[ZephyrXero]

The BBC would be more likly to use Dirac, being that they came up with it... It's open source and can be used along with Ogg Vorbis ;) Theora looks great and all, but as long as it's in an open source codec I don't care which...

Re:I demand one thing...

[sean23007]

You know, people always talk about Theora and how great it is and that content producers should make their videos available in Theora. The thing is ... what plays it? Does it work in Windows Media Player, Real Player, or Quicktime? Those are the programs people use to watch movies. It doesn't really matter if mplayer can play it, or even VLC. People don't want to download a new player. Either get Theora supported by at least Real and Apple, or keep working on getting WMV, RM, and QT files to play in your players.

For example, I run OS X and don't even know if there's a player for Theora. Or an encoder. Though for my encoding tasks I use H.264, which is good enough for me.

Re:I demand one thing...

[commodoresloat]

people always talk about Theora and how great it is

Yeah man every time I turn on the TV or radio it's like "ogg theora this and ogg theora that." Get on a bus or train and talk to other passengers, seems like that's all they talk about. Won't everybody just shut up about ogg theora already!

Wait a minute.

What the bloody hell is ogg theora?

Re:I demand one thing...

[ZephyrXero]

Windows Media Player? Yes, with patch.
RealPlayer? Yes, with patch directly from Real ;) Quicktime? I don't think so....

on your "H.264" encoding...do you mean Apple's implementation of it? H.264 is a standard, not a codec. Will those .mov's play on other people's operating systems? Can I watch them in Linux...legally? This is why people make a fuss about it. Media/data should never be contained in a proprietary format. It's one thing to use proprietary software, but all data should be open and standardized.

So you get to be their free worker then?

[plasmacutter]

I think there is a difference between remixing for fun or art's sake, and revamping a tv network's scheduling for free *something networks pay people hundreds of thousands a year to do* (especially when bbc charges brits some 20 pounds a month for the channel)

An example

[hoka]

for others to follow? I mean think about it, you get to appear/seem open which is a huge bonus for the geek community (I'm sure a lot of posts will be about how great it is), while on the other hand you are raking in free innovation. Sort of like an upbeat take on Google Hacks, where a lot of people take an open service (Google Maps quasi-excluded) and do things with it, furthering the use of the service and gaining more notoriety for it.

So while all of us clamor about how great some new hack on the open service is, the BBC will be raking in the publicity and dough. Not that we can really complain.

Re:An example

[Anonymous Coward]

How exactly do you mean "Rake in the dough"?

You do realise that the BBC (Beeb) is paid for exclusively by UK taxpayers specifically to avoid all kinds of advertising?

Rant as much as you like about the content or format, but the beeb does 'make money'.
Its a public service.

Re:An example

[hoka]

What I meant by "raking in the dough" is that the added publicity, the added usage, and the ability to promote products will likely lead to an increase in profits, which even if they are a "public service", still has meaning.

Remix?

[NilObject]

So, like, they want me to cut it up, move pieces around, and combine it in funky-fresh ways with other schedules?

Or maybe a mash-up?

Re:Yes

[XAlba]

I'd've been more impressed with this troll if it was correct...

("Worker bees...", "Even drones...")

Proposed BBC schedule

[SnappingTurtle]

• Beatles
• Monty Python
• Beatles
• Monty Python
• people with British accents whacking each other
• Beatles
• Monty Python

Re:Proposed BBC schedule

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

That's not very nice. One has to think of the elderlies and the mentally challenged. Therefore I propose we add:

- Eastenders
- Coronation street

Very late at night, if possible. Thank you.

Brittania Rules

[Doc Ruby]

Imagine an American media company pursuing this project. That's not even science fiction, it's fantasy.

But what do I expect from my country, whose highest cultural aspirations are inevitably reruns in a British accent? All copyrighted, even patented, of course. While the British have a long enough cultural memory that they've been remixing Shakespeare for a half millennium.

Re:Brittania Rules

[01000011011101000111]

To be fair to your country (as I understand it), you don't have a "tax" (the tv license isn't obligatory, just nearly so... and often enforced with just as many goons in suits...) paid television channel, so all the media companies actually have to pay out of their profits for the programs... The BBC afaik doesn't (as long as it doesn't make a loss) - they're a public service, like pavements. About the only British institution that I'm actually still proud of - and the only one I'm getting more proud of as time goes by :D
Hell, I'd probably still pay my TV license even if we didn't have a tv, just for the web content alone - they deserve it.

Re:Brittania Rules

[Doc Ruby]

We also have "PBS", akin to the BBC - the home of "Sesame Street" (Kermit the Frog, Big Bird, etc). In fact, most BBC content rerun for American audiences was broadcast by PBS. That's where Monty Python's American audience comes from, as well as lesser lights like Masterpiece Theatre (note the spelling) and other British fare, especially televised literary adaptations. PBS is funded by Congress, through the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. So we do pay a tax, into the slush fund, for the most popular channel among the 500 on our "dial". Popular, at least, as measured by polls on trust and importance, if not by ratings. Which makes sense for a noncommercial channel, which doesn't make business and advertising decisions keyed to ratings.

If the BBC can make this project work, I'd love to see PBS do the same. It would make PBS even more popular, freeing it to fill the vacuum of "community content and programming" kept vacant by the commercial networks. PBS is under threat from Republicans who want it to become a government propaganda channel like Fox News (and its corporate competitors). Building an interactive community with its content would help it withstand even the vicious attack it suddenly comes under. By removing much of the editorial control which, even when fair, can still be targeted with loaded "bias" complaints designed to bias it. If the content and messages originate, are selected by, and resonate among the people, it's harder to talk about some fake "media elitism".

Re:Brittania Rules

[isorox]

Imagine an American media company pursuing this project. That's not even science fiction, it's fantasy.

BBC doesn't have to answer to shareholders or advertisers. Just a manicidal boss that bites co-workers.

Re:Brittania Rules

[wizzdude]

Actually they do. There is a public annual general meeting and the government reviews the licence every 10 years.

Re:Brittania Rules

[isorox]

Still no advertisers. The "shareholders" don't have any choice in the matter. The government don't need a review every tten years, just a fake inqury from a corrupt judge.

Mark Thompson ignores them all anyway. He's too busy taking a major bite out of the people that actually do the work, in favour of 16 layers of management.

Re:Brittania Rules

[stefanb]

I believe Douglas Adams quipped:

For Americans, one hundred years is a long time. For Europeans, one hundred miles is a long distance.

Re:Brittania Rules

[gfreeman]

just a fake inqury from a corrupt judge.

I challenge you to name him.

Scam?

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

Exactly. And what this really is, is the BBC wanting people to write their code for them, sort of like free advertising: "here's all the brand names, write some inovative code because we don't want to spend the money to hire programmers..."

Re:Scam?

[Xarius]

What's so bad about that? I assume anyone who does anything with this is going to know they're not getting paid...

Isn't that what OSS is all about, helping each other for an ego boost^W^W^W the greater good?

Re:Scam?

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

Sure, I understand this. But it seems to me like a lop-sided deal.

Re:Scam?

[mr_sas]

Well aren't they saying that they'll adopt any really innovative worthwhile ideas? I presume they'll be paying for that? It strikes me as just like google allowing people to make plug-ins for the google desktop product, so that google don't have to make or support the plug-ins theirselves...

Darn it

[NitsujTPU]

Darn it BBC, you're supposed to be stifling creativity like the American television corporations.

Snap into line!

Re:Darn it

[plasmacutter]

I believe the actual chartered task for american tv is to lull people into mind-numbed complacent apathy. In truth that involves a lot of creativity.. as it's very hard not to at least mildly amuse the average soul.

What I want...

[no_pets]

...may be off topic, but what I want is the ability to select to record a program from a TV commercial on my DVR instead of having to wait until about 2 weeks before it begins to air.

This could be somewhat like the pay-per-view commercials that I've seen that allow you to subscribe or select an event.

FWIW - I currently use a DishPVR. I'm not trying to start a debate though.

To me that would be more useful than any kind of online link, etc.

Re:What I want...

[Larry Lightbulb]

Dunno about the Dish version but with Tivo I'd just enter the name as a wishlist and when the programme appears in the listings it would be scheduled for recording.

Re:What I want...

[timthorn]

That was exactly what the TV-Anytime format was invented for; CRIDs (URLs for TV programmes) will be transmitted along with trailers to allow you to programme your PVR. The format understands repeats of the same programme to assist the PVR scheduler. This is the first time that TV-Anytime has made it into the public, as far as I know, but I hope not the last.

Ideas you could try...

[cmeans]

Here's a few ideas, not sure how good they are:

• Integrate it with your Calendar. For shows you're interested in (or might be). Good even for people who have a TiVo or other PVR.
• An extension of this would be for it to read your calendar/email/web sites to know the kinds of things you're interested in, then it could highlight shows that relate to your interests. Categorize by business and personal interests/events.

Re:Ideas you could try...

[poopdeville]

Oh, you mean an adware app?

Re:Ideas you could try...

[Larry Lightbulb]

Recommendations based on writers and producers/directors would be useful. That would be more accurate than keywords for the descriptions.

My idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if the BBC would like my idea of linking the listings to torrents of the TV shows :)

Now if the published listings were correct....

[whoever57]

My TIVO either misses programs or records the wrong programs because BBC America either changes it's listings at the last moment, or just has incorrect listings (I don't know which).

I've been doing this "remix" for years

[Larry Lightbulb]

So what's new about downloading the radio schedules, building a database, and creating a website from it?

Re:I've been doing this "remix" for years

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing, but when you're a paunchy, over 35 year old and you work at the bbc, this is as close to cutting edge as you're going to get, hence the use of 'down with the kids' jargon, like 'remix'.

Pandering to the blogosophere...

[Anonymous Coward]

On the taxpayers dime. The UK License Fee is a complusory, regressive tax. Which is fine, except when they waste the money on wankathons like this.

At a glance: BBC job cuts!

What I expect...

[sharpestmarble]

I'll wait until the Tiger Widget comes out.

My suggestion

[Anonymous Coward]

Put the new Doctor Who series in a 12:30 am Sunday time slot that only "chav" losers would stay up for.

Re:My suggestion

[wolverine1999]

Mine is to show the new Doctor Who Series on BBC Prime for those of us outside the UK...

Already in use with MythTV

[gilesjuk]

I've been using the BBC listings with MythTV for months now. The XMLTV script used to parse the HTML, but the BBC realised serving all the HTML results in greater server load, so they made XML data available.

Re:Already in use with MythTV

[Larry Lightbulb]

Where are the listings? I've done a quick look but can't find anywhere on the BBC site that presents them as XML.

Re:Already in use with MythTV

[Anonymous Coward]

The ones used by mythtv are not on the bbc site itself, it's part of the Radio Times (the BBC commercial listings magazine).

http://xmltv.radiotimes.com/xmltv/channels.dat
http://xmltv.radiotimes.com/xmltv/(channelnum).dat

The format is tailored for the xmltv project on sourceforge. Oddly, and rather irritatingly, there doesn't seem to be any RADIO times in there.

Re:Already in use with MythTV

[Larry Lightbulb]

Thanks, I'll take a look.

I agree it's annoying that radio details aren't there, that would make my life easier.

Some ideas

[tod_miller]

I think starting from basics you can take this service and then attach flickr tags to the lookups for shows - or look for time based blogs ...or integrate into blogs 'what I watched'...

or allow for people to rate and see related content (and trends) based on other peoples preferences.

That said, every company with a staff count of > -1 has a patent on some form of 'personalisation' based on a simple query technology.

Handheld schdulers that change channel/record using bluetooth commands to your mythTV center.

Link scheduled tv content to your searches, show on google maps where people like certain types of programs (for the express purpose of genocide? no? ok)

Phew I got throug a whole post without saying blog of podcast. Fuck.

My word in image is 'poking' wow that cannot be a coincidink? The guy who made the decision to put this on is a twat.