New Mad Cow Test on the Horizon?

pin_gween writes "Prions are thought to be responsible for mad cow disease and its human variant, Creutzfeld-Jakob disease. Until now, the only way to positively ID those infected was to dissect the brain. Canada.com has an AP wire reporting that researchers at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston have 'developed a method of multiplying the number prions in a blood sample so a blood test then can detect them.' If perfected, it would make the blood supply safer; transfusions can spread the disease between people. It could also open up more blood donations for the Red Cross: in the U.S., people who have spent more than 3 months total (since 1980) in the UK or 6 months total (since 1980) in Europe are banned from donating."

Comments

Donation

[seti]

In Belgium, I am banned from donating blood because i was born in 1978, and lived in the UK till 1980. I left the UK when I was two years old.

Re:Donation

[A beautiful mind]

Isn't that kind of thing stupid? I don't think there is much difference between one western country and another in terms of average infection rates of most diseases.

Re:Donation

[seti]

I totally agree. It's been twenty-five years since I have lived in the UK, and I'm not expert on VCJD, but if i haven't developed any illness by now, I don't think I ever will. Also, VJCD has occurred a couple of times here, so it's a bit of a stupid rule.

The UK however has had a lot more cases than other European countries. Other countries have been France, Belgium and the Netherlands, but to a lot lesser extent than the UK (probably about 90% of cases).

Re:Donation

[monktus]

The number of cases in the UK is still extrememly low per head of population though.

Re:Donation

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I gave blood during my stay in the states in '98. Everybody knew I was a foreigner and no one complained. So, did I break the law or the red cross did?

Re:Donation

[packeteer]

I don't want to scare you since you are probably fine but you very well could have prions in you. Temember there is no way to test and just becuase you have no symptoms doesn;t mean you dont have it. You can be exposed to the prions that cause VCJD and not get sick for 30-40 years.

I know someone who is not allowed to donate blood in the USA. He has never been to europe. His grandfather died of CJD and contracted it in the United States. Becuase there is a possability he carried it when he has children and his grandchildren COULD have it. There is no way to test them. The only way they will know is when they get older they could get sick.

Re:Donation

[polysylabic psudonym]

Not stupid at all. Many people were infected by eating british beef infected with BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy(mad cow disease)). No one has been infected by eating Australian beef, there have been no reported cases yet in North America (although infected animals have been found there).

Quarantine seems to be working well for BSE, so infection rates are significantly different between different western nations.

Re:Donation

[Hannah E. Davis]

There's a similar law in Canada. From the Canadian Blood Services websites:

Possible Exposure to CJD or vCJD: People are not eligible to donate blood or plasma if they have spent a cumulative total of three months or more in the United Kingdom (U.K.) between January 1980, and December 31, 1996, or if they have spent a cumulative total of three months or more in France between January 1980, and December 31, 1996, or if they have spent a cumulative total of five years or more in Western Europe outside the U.K. or France since 1980. In addition, people will no longer be eligible to donate blood or plasma if they have had a blood transfusion in the U.K., France or Western Europe since 1980. This is owing to the risk of transmission of variant Creutzfeldt Jakob Disease (vCJD) through blood.

I'm a first generation Canadian of British descent, so when I was younger, my parents took me to Britain many times to visit relatives -- I suspect that I've been there for at least 3 months in total, so I guess I'm banned from donating blood too.

Re:Donation

[Graham Clark]

This depends on your definition of "many". Compared to the number who've died from HIV or hepatitis, it's fairly trivial. The reason for the ban, AFAICT, was that a few years ago there was less evidence about how many people were eventually likely to be infected, so it was much more plausible that it was a significant threat. It was an act of caution, which of course is a good thing.

Given the trend since, the British blood supply still looks immensely safe.

Re:Donation

[Mr2cents]

Well, I gave blood during my stay in the states in '98. Everybody knew I was a foreigner and no one complained.

Of course not, it was a great way to get a free dna sample from you, you foureign commu^H^H^H^H^H^H terrorist! We're watching you!!!

Re:Donation

[hattig]

Amazing, the problem only arose in the UK in the mid-80s as well due to the Conservative government allowing their farmer friends to cut costs by feeding animal waste to bovines.

It isn't as if BSE is UK only, there are plenty of cases throughout Europe and the US as well - not on the same scale as the problem *was* over here, then again you didn't have pure evil corruption in government at the time. As an aside, I notice that BSE is occuring more often in the US these days ...

Re:Donation

[Anonymous Coward]

it's nothing to do with health best practices. otherwise all blood in the uk would be filtered for prions.

its the american beef lobby which sought to demonize foreign imports of beef and augment confidence in the domestic product which is jus tas risk.

over the last thirty years many alzheimers cases (which is very common in the US) have been consistently mistakenly diagnosed instead of vCJD.

this is quite widely known yet no one has sought to enquire how widesperad the problem has been.
the coming CJD shock to the beef industry in the USA is easy to predict. when many victims are found ot have never left aermican soil, never recieved blood and only eaten american beef.

sans crystal ball.

no crystal ball needed.

Re:Donation

[FidelCatsro]

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs180/en /
About 132 deaths over a 6 year period(not all are definite) , you have a far greater chance of the beef itself killing you by being stuck in your throat, slipping on a bit you spilled on the floor ,contracting nasty food poisoning or a bowel obstruction

Re:Donation

[ejito]

I'm banned from donating by the FDA (USA) because I was in West Germany when I was 2 years old.
 
I actually donated several times without realizing the dates metioned on the saftey survey. Just last year, I realized I didn't qualify and was denied the ability to donate. Felt pretty embarrassing walking out of a donation bus without donating.

Re:Donation

[Homology]

Amazing, the problem only arose in the UK in the mid-80s as well due to the Conservative government allowing their farmer friends to cut costs by feeding animal waste to bovines.

A good example that the "free market" fundamentalists are wrong in not acknowledging that not everything under the sun works well just because it's a "free market solution".

The Conservative government under Thatcher is perhaps better described as free market radical. Actually, this is a trend seen in most European conservative parties in that they are no longer conservative, but free market radicals (neo-liberal, if you like). They used to have a responsible social agenda, only to replace it with greed and enrichment of the rich under the disguise of "free market solutions".

Re:Donation

[MidnightBrewer]

I'm in the same boat, having lived in Germany for two years. However, you shouldn't feel embarrassed just because you're following the law and refusing to endanger people. Donating blood is supposed to save lives. Not donating harmful blood saves lives, too, right? :)

Re:Donation

[squiggleslash]

I did too. The ban wasn't in force in 1998, it was introduced shortly afterwards.

Re:Donation

[Tim C]

"Probably"? Every time I see that, I read it as "I don't actually know, but my prejudice is that...".

So, here are some actual numbers, courtesy of the World Health Organisation. As it turns out, you underestimated it, at least for the period in the report.

Still, it's worth pointing out that the UK population is in the region of 60million or so, so the number of cases is tiny.

Re:Donation

[dascandy]

Would be identical here in the Netherlands... but, point is, what is the joke about people being in europe for over 6 months constituting a bigger risk for your health than people living in their own waste products having sex with numerous people?

Just an example, but I do think that those interviews based on a few banned groups and mostly your own judgement are fatally flawed.

Re:Donation

[computechnica]

I was stationed in England from 93-97. When I returned I donated monthly until 2000 when the FDA ban went into effect. I wonder how CJD was spread as A result!
MOOooOOOOoooo

Mo!

Re:Donation

[wbtittle]

Sorry, you fail.

Pop quiz buddy. You are about to die. You need blood. You have a choice. DIE, or take the blood of a person who might, maybe, possibly, if 7,000,000,000 things went just right have a stray prion in his system, which might just might transfer to you and then 25 years from now cause you to die of nvCJD.

What do you choose. Death today, or death 25 years from now.

The policy is stupid. It kills people. The blood supply is severely strained as a result.

The definition of a rare blood type is not AB-, it is the type of blood you need when you need it and it is not there.

Less than 200 people have died of nvCJD in the world in the last 30 years.

Anyone worried about catching it and dying may as well shoot themselves right now, cause they are also worried to death about getting every other disease on the planet except for the ones that might actually kill them (like the flu).

GRRRR

Re:Donation

[badmammajamma]

I see where you're coming from. Hell, I was surprised I couldn't donate blood because of the UK restriction. However, maybe the reason only 200 people have died from it is because of the severe restrictions?

Re:Donation

[OpenSourceOfAllEvil]

Testing is really not the issue. It's lack of testing. Although there hasn't been a way to test for "mad cow" in the past that doesn't mean the tests will be done when a test is available.

There are tests for HIV but they are not done on donated blood. The reason is cost. The American Red Cross decide years ago that it was cheaper to deal with lawsuits over infected blood than to test the blood. If tests begin for one disease people will demand tests for all. Considering the odds of each, which would you rather have blood you received tested for, mad cow or HIV?

Currently the American Red Cross relies on self reporting. They know many people are pressured into donating when blood drives are held at offices and organizations. They know people who know they should not donate may do so to prevent drawing attention to themselves and being forced to give the reason. The blood is tagged and numbered, a person may later phone anonymously and give the ID of their blood and ask it be discarded. That is the most they are willing to do for a safe blood supply.

Re:Donation

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, guess what? I don't want to scare you either, but you already have prions in you; they're natural. The problem is that the bad prions can cause good prions to change their shape into bad prions.

Re:Donation

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry, you can still panhandle to get your dope, don't feel like you'll miss out just because you can't sell a pint of blood...

Alternative test

[Boomshanka]

will it determine if the woman I am about to marry will turn into a mad cow down the track.... now that would truely be a useful test.

Re:Alternative test

[ZeroConcept]

"will it determine if the woman I am about to marry will turn into a mad cow down the track.... now that would truely be a useful test."

Look at her mom.

Mad Cow Test on the Horizon?

[Anonymous Coward]

If she stops talking to you and refuses to say what's wrong... that's a pretty good indicator.

Re: Mad Cow Test on the Horizon?

[LightingMonkey]

I think women are great but not talking to you and not telling you whats wrong tends only to indicate she's female.

Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

have 'developed a method of multiplying the number prions in a blood sample so a blood test then can detect them.' If perfected, it would make the blood supply safer;

There must be other, more "eccentric" uses for increasing the number of prions in a blood sample...where exactly did this technology come from?

canadian cows maybe great but ....

[moro_666]

but i dont like the fact that they kill hamsters to find out if the cows are ok ...

is there really no other way to make these tests than to kill innocent animals ? a hamster may be small but its still torturing and i'm ideologically against it. i wont go shout under their window with a sign in my hand but i definetly dont approve it. if we think it's normal to sacrifice one species animals for the sake of cheaper cow meat, what will keep the aliens from testing on us using our own behaviour as the excuse ?

i dont want to be used & deadly infected for finding out that an examination method is 16/18 % correct, do you ?

Re:canadian cows maybe great but ....

[Hannah E. Davis]

I suspect that the scientists wouldn't have used hamsters (or any lab animals) if they didn't have to, at least in part because procuring and maintaining lab animals ain't cheap and requires a fair bit of paper work. We don't really understand much about prions (well, we know what they are and what they can do, but we have no idea -why- they're like that, or how they work), so this makes it very difficult to just model a simulation or fiddle around with some tissue culture. This makes some animal testing necessary, unfortunately, and the best the scientists can do is try to be humane and hope that their research will be used to save human and animal lives.

Incidentally, I'm a former biology major, and one reason why I switched to computer science during second year was that I couldn't handle hurting animals, let alone taking them apart and poking at their squishy bits. I don't like using lab animals any more than you do, but I think it would do more harm than good if we just outlawed the practice.

Re:canadian cows maybe great but ....

[moro_666]

i guess you see my point, but i dont think most people do.

ofcourse most of us dont give much thought about the rats/mice/hamsters used in the tests, and sometimes the sacrificing is just necessary to save the healthy animals/humans that have survived so far.

but i for example have a cat at home, i'd rather infect the biologist that wants to experiment himself than my kitten, no matter the purpose.

i guess most people with pets couldn't even think about giving their cats/dogs/birds for some animal testings now would you.

humans are the product of evolution, the choice of nature. why are we so eager to choose by ourselves who survives next instead of letting the nature evolve new better and more resistant lifeforms ?

i guess we're just scared as hell, that over the last few decades our kind has been weakened so much that we would lose the battle. (here comes the planet of the apes ...)

Re:canadian cows maybe great but ....

[Anonymous Coward]

evolution has given us great big brains, and now we use other animals in order to preserve them. that's evolution.

Re:canadian cows maybe great but ....

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

...and cuisine!

Re:canadian cows maybe great but ....

[Anonymous Coward]

> why are we so eager to choose by ourselves who survives next instead of letting the nature evolve new better and more resistant lifeforms ?

How? With people willingly giving up agriculture, farming, medicine, C-sections, broken bone repairs and so on because that will weed out the weaker and unfit among us, giving "nature" a chance?

If we let the world carry on with no human intervention and doing nothing to ensure our survival, we'd have been extinct long ago.

Re:canadian cows maybe great but ....

[bdcrazy]

The question you really have to ponder is:
Would that animal be alive if it weren't being used for testing? Thats the truth behind the matter. I'm not saying whether i think its good or bad, just the fact of the matter at hand.

Re:canadian cows maybe great but ....

[Anonymous Coward]

but i dont like the fact that they kill hamsters to find out if the cows are ok ...

Well, I guess we could use YOU, instead...

To be fair

[MillionthMonkey]

Prions can also be spread via cannibalism- although cannibals can rest assured that as far as prions are concerned, eating brains is still much, much safer than receiving transfusions.

Re:To be fair

[ookabooka]

I thought that stomach enzymes broke down prions(and other protiens) and also in the small intestine. I suppose one rouge molecule that didnt react would get through to your bloodstream and start replicating?

Re:To be fair

[Agripa]

Usually that is the case but the prion in question is VERY inert which is what led to contamination of surgical instruments and transmission of the disease. Standard autoclaving was not sufficient to destroy it. This is also what leads to the disease since the body can not break it down and it accumulates in the cell bodies eventually poisoning them.

The prion has to come into contact with the normal protien to replicate and it's effectiveness depends on the specific structure of both. Since different spieces have slightly different versions of the gene and protien, cross spieces transmission varies a great deal. Cows can relatively easily catch it from other cows but transmission between species has so far been much more difficult.

Re:To be fair

[Anonymous Coward]

Good thing brains are safer. My zombie buddies in the cemetery across the street will be please to hear that.

Re:To be fair

[quarkscat]

"Prions can also be spread via cannibalism-"

Which, of course, is what started the latest outbreak of mad cow disease to begin with. Domesticated ruminant animals are not, by their nature, cannibals. Human greed overturned common sense when we started putting bovine blood and bone meal in animal foodstock as "suppliments".

Re:To be fair

[juan2074]

And, oddly enough, there is no talk of banning animal parts in feed.

Instead, we will just test for the disease, hoping to eliminate diseased cattle from the food supply.

Why try an ounce of prevention when we can spend more on the pound of cure?

Re:To be fair

[juan2074]

And that reminds me. . .

You do know E. coli gets into our food supply, right?

Why can't we prevent shit from ever getting into our meat?

Blood test since 2003

[polysylabic psudonym]

According to New Scientist magazine there's been a blood test for BSE (Bovive Spongiform Encephalopathy(Mad Cow Disease)) since 2003. The more tests out there the better, of course. Better tests mean quicker testing, means more US cattle tested, means fewer cases hiding, means fewer cases of vCJD in american humans.

Re:Blood test since 2003

[Anonymous Coward]

Well it's /. you know...

Re:Blood test since 2003

[A beautiful mind]

It may seem to be nitpicking, but all humans belong to only one species, therefore i would guess it would benefit the whole human race, not just only the humans living in America.

If it was just an unfortunate phrase, then i'm sorry that i'm still talking about it, i just wanted to make sure it gets corrected.

Re:Blood test since 2003

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what makes me feel so depressed about the current state of science. So the disease is carried in the blood, and no one thought to extract evidence from the blood until recently? We say "given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow". Well it's the same thing for medicine. "Given enough eyeballs, all diagnostics are apparent." Something tells me there's a reason there weren't enough eyeballs looking at this problem.

It's called evolution. American schools don't want to teach real biology, so the medical scientists we have looking at the problem are extremely ill-prepared, and as soon as someone figures out an obvious way of testing for a disease we laud them for their genius. It's like if we taught kids in electronics class that electrons flow because of God's will, and then in 1990 when someone finally figures out how to build a transistor, "wow, what an amazing innovation!"

Believe in all the spooks in the sky you want, just keep it out of science class.

Re:Blood test since 2003

[andphi]

I assume "american humans" was chosen in the interests of parallel structure. To go from "American cattle" to "people everywhere" breaks the parallelism.

Re:Blood test since 2003

[MoralHazard]

Teaching evolution in primary/secondary school has nothing to do with this. High-school kids are not working on prion detection in blood samples. The people who do this kind of research are professionals, all of them doctorates with at least 6 or 7 years of post-secondary education. How many accredited biology programs, even at the undergraduate level, teach creationism? Maybe a handful, Bob Jones U and its ilk, but they graduate maybe .001% of all the biology degrees in the USA. Probably none of these people are actually doing biology work, anyway, so it's not their lack of proper education that's holding back progress.

Sunny point #2: None of the people who are currently old enough to have PhDs would have been exposed to creationism, or ID, in primary/secondary school. The recent push to get scripturally-inspired alternatives to evolution placed in textbooks is less than 10 years old, and its had few actual successes in getting the material taught. The number of schools and districts that are becoming receptive to the ID discussion is growing, but still only represents a TINY fraction of the total number of kids educated in the USA.

For comparison, there are several hundred thousand US children being educated every year at religiously-affilated schools that could be called "evangelical" or "fundamentalist" based on the sponsoring sect's view of biblical literalism. Since the literalist interpretation of scripture is in large part the intellectual parent of the ID movement, it's reasonable to assume that a good portion of these kids are being taught alternatives to evolution, at the very least.

In short, you're looking for a reason to bash religious people who support the teaching of ID in public schools. I suspect you probably have issues with religion in general, probably related to poor experiences with religion, religious people, or a religious upbringing in your formative years. I'm sorry about that, but you should probably try to be a little more open-minded--

Something tells me there's a reason there weren't enough eyeballs looking at this problem.


And the reason we don't have world peace, flying cars, and ponies for everybody is that there aren't enough eyeballs looking at THOSE problems.

It's generally true that, ceteris paribus, spending more man-hours on a given field of research will yield more results in a shorter time, but this is not as useful a principle as you might think. Here's why:

    - Dependencies between disciplines: sometimes, a crucial advance in one field is held back by a lack of progress in another, apparantly unrelated field. Often the dependency isn't recognized until after a cross-applicable discovery is made, pointing the relationship out to everyone. Case in point: using Folding@Home to do genetics research. Who'd've thunk that the Internet would represent a huge bonus to the study of protein functions?

    - The tendency for new discoveries to happen is, at best, a statistical tendency. You cannot know in advance of pursuing a particular avenue of research whether it will pan out or not--take Cold Fusion, or even Hot Fusion, as an example of this. Even if you throw billions of dollars at a problem, you still have to get lucky, and you still have to pick problems that you're reasonably sure will pan out.

Re:Blood test since 2003

[SillySlashdotName]

The article is about a new method of making the current test more accurate and faster, it is not a new test.

You are precisely correct in that vCJD is thought to be caused by injesting BSE contaminated meat whereas CJD is classified as either inherited or 'sporatic' - i.e., no known cause or risk factor.

BSE is thought to be a Transmissable Spongiform Encephalopathy (TSE) where CJD is not known to be transmissable unless the victom is eaten - as the disease Kuru is/was in cannibals who ate the brains of their dead.

Re:Blood test since 2003

[polysylabic psudonym]

I singled out American humans because it is America (both the USA and Canada) which right now is failing to test enough cattle to protect the local people from vCJD (forgot to spell out th acronym before, its variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease). The main reasons for the lack of testing seem to be the cost of the current test and the desire of cattle owners to not have BSE (the "B" in that is, of course, for "Bovine" rather than Bovive as I typoed earlier) identified in their stock.

Re:Blood test since 2003

[A beautiful mind]

Wow talk about late reply ;)

Re:Blood test since 2003

[polysylabic psudonym]

Yeah - been spending my time catching up on a few years of userfriendly.org.

heard this on the TV a while ago...

[IchBinEinPenguin]

cow1: Do you worry about mad cow disease?
cow2: Why should I? I'm a rabbit.

Re:heard this on the TV a while ago...

[game kid]

Apparently cow2 took comedy lessons from Karen Smith.

[dressed in a cat suit with cat ears] "I'm a MOUSE. DUH."

I hope they don't expect a lot more donors

[wizrd_nml]

in the US, people who have spent more than 3 months total (since 1980) in the UK or 6 months total (since 1980) in Europe are banned from donating.

So with over 80% of Americans not even having a passport, is that really a problem?

Re:I hope they don't expect a lot more donors

[Babbster]

In situations like this, it's less a question of getting more donors and more a question of not alienating people who are willing to donate blood. Not only do you lose that person from the donor pool but, if they feel slighted by the criteria, they can discourage others from coming in.

I worked at the Red Cross for a number of years and by far the least pleasant duty I had to perform was explaining to perfectly healthy people, whose blood was also probably perfectly healthy, that they couldn't donate because they happened to be in a group we had to consider "high risk." These reasons could be anything from having certain types of cancer (despite the fact that, AFAIK, nobody has gotten cancer from a blood transfusion) to a relative with CJD to a trip to the "wrong" country (various parasitic infections, high HIV infection rates, etc.). It's tough to tell somebody "no thanks" when they're trying to give of themselves (literally).

Re:I hope they don't expect a lot more donors

[Randseed]

I stopped donating blood a while back. Now I'm in the medical field, so I understand how important it is to donate and all that. The problem with our current blood donation system in terms of "donator service" is twofold. First, they ask an incredibly annoying battery of questions for high risk screening, which turns a lot of people off. (I don't care about that personally.) But second, they reject people for some of the most ridiculous reasons which makes me not even bother. An example of the latter is rejecting someone who took Tylenol for a headache, someone who is on a relatively benign psych drug chronically (e.g., Prozac), etc.

It's pretty random when you get down to the second. Some places have some sense when dealing with it. Some places go off the deep end, like rejecting me because I took Benadryl for alergies.

Re:I hope they don't expect a lot more donors

[Bogtha]

Then why not simply take their blood and throw it away once they leave?

Re:I hope they don't expect a lot more donors

[GoldAnt]

Its too bad were not able to detect more problems so less people would have to be turned away... but really whats the big deal? If they don't want your blood there are plenty of other ways to give of yourself, you could donate to research, you could join a helpful group.... Really I don't think its that personal a thing, so they've been to a certain country, that doesn't mean they're not a good person.

Re:I hope they don't expect a lot more donors

[Mccavity91k]

We do not reject people that have taken Tylenol, unless they're donating platelets (Tylenol, like asprin, is a blood thinner). As far as the drugs go, it is on a case by case basis because some drugs change your blood in many ways. As far as the Benadryl goes, the place I worked at would not have deferred you for that, as long as the allergies were chronic, and not possible a cold or flu.

Remember, this blood will go to sick or injured people that aren't in the right shape to have to worry about what drugs or viruses are in their bloodstreams, and how they'll react with what they're already on.

Re:I hope they don't expect a lot more donors

[Mccavity91k]

There actually is a choice for that. If somebody doesn't want to admit something, or if, say they came in a group and don't want to have to explain why they couldn't donate, we have barcode stickers that we make them choose from. One states they believe their blood is safe for transfusion, one states that for some reason, they don't believe so. We don't even know which ones they choose until we bring the blood back to the lab and scan them. If they say no transfusion, we destroy them, and nobody's the wiser.

Re:I hope they don't expect a lot more donors

[jd0g85]

As a regular donor, I concur with this. It is extremely frustrating to be turned away (temporarily) for some of the most absurd reasons, especially if it's after they've already poked your finger.

My favorite reason was that I went to Nayarita, a state in Mexico with a "malaria risk." The fun part is, I was only 5 miles across the border into the region (from Jalisco, which is "safe") and I stayed on the beach and out of the jungle. As a result, I could not give blood. (This is despite the fact that I had been back in the states for 10 months without any of the symptoms and that the typical incubation period for malaria is 7-30 days. This is also despite the fact that 5 months earlier I had already successfully donated under an earlier set of rules.)

Do mosquitos carrying malaria really follow the geopolitical boundaries imposed by human governments?

cost and time

[silverkniveshotmail.]

i didn't notice the article mention once how long it would take to get results, or how much it would cost.

Re:cost and time

[Anonymous Coward]

It'll take 60 years. And it may cost you your life. But it's pretty accurate!

bummer

[Lil-Bondy]

i didnt know this before... and was planning to spend a year in italy, and well, seeing as i would like to donate blood (or avoid getting mod cow D) it seems i might have to cut my trip short

Re:bummer

[mrchaotica]

One easy way to avoid getting mad cow disease is to not eat beef. Luckily, Italians eat a lot of seafood and whatnot, so it should be easy to do so and still get a lot of good food. Just stay away from the McDonalds (although the one by the Spanish Steps is kind of neat because it's got a salad bar). ; )

Re:bummer

[doktor-hladnjak]

The summary is actually out of date on its listing of restrictions for blood donation concerning international travel, at least for people wanting to donate in the US.

It used to be limited to 6 months in Europe, but now it's actually 5 years (still 3 months for the UK though). I know this because for a while I wasn't allowed to donate blood having lived in Germany for 2 years, but I recently noticed a change in policy on the Red Cross website. The questionaires and everything are even changed and I had no problem donating blood a couple weeks ago.

More info at the Red Cross website on blood donation eligibility.

There is also another test...

[CrackedButter]

It involves taking a swab sample from the tonsils, its been news to me for at least 4 or 5 years. At the time the only other test was to take a cross section of the brain test that, of course, you're only capable of doing that from somebody who had already died of the disease.

Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[Anonymous Coward]

The entire mad cow disiease and Creutzfeld-Jakobs Disease is a political hype created by over-zealous politicians.

Read one of the last chapters in the Matt Ridley book "Genome - the mapping of a species".

The facts are

1) To be able to get CFD, you need to have a genetic defect, making you suspectible to prions. If you don't have that genetic defect, you can eat 100 fresh non-cooked brains of mad cows and never get CFD.

2) The risk of getting struck by the disease, if you have the genetic defect, is something close to 1 in a million, supposing you eat raw brains or marrow from a mad cow. Processed meat has an even less likelyhood.

The fact that mad cow disease (and scrapie in sheep) does affect a lot of animals is due to inbreeding, that has caused most of the European cow and sheep population to have the genetic defect in question.

Given the odds, you can expect perhaps 10-20 cases of CFD in Europe in the next 50 years, unless the victims dies in a car accident beforehand, which is much more likely.

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.promedmail.org/pls/askus/f?p=2400:1202: 307098::NO::F2400_P1202_CHECK_DISPLAY,F2400_P1202_ PUB_MAIL_ID:X,18726

Risk factors for the development of vCJD include age, residence in the UK
and methionine homozygosity at codon 129 of the prion protein gene; 98
cases of vCJD with available genetic analysis have all been methionine
homozygotes. The analyses in this report do not provide conclusive evidence
of an increased risk of vCJD associated with past surgery, previous blood
transfusion, occupation, or a range of dietary factors. However, the power
of the case-control study, from which these results are derived, is limited
by the relatively small number of cases and controls.

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[Hannah E. Davis]

Even assuming this is true, I think there's still reason to worry about the disease. Prions are nasty little buggers, and they scare me all the more because we know so little about them. I mean, these aren't virii, bacteria, parasites or anything that we know how to deal with -- they're just proteins that happen to be shaped in an unusual way. They even exist naturally inside our bodies, but sometimes, for some unknown reason, they start "reproducing" by warping normal proteins into prions... and then bad things happen.

I don't know about you, but even with a low rate of infection, I'd like to see scientists learn more about them and the diseases that they cause and hopefully further drop the chances of me (or anyone else) getting sick. Ok... I'll admit it, I'm just afraid of the unknown, but my solution is to make that unknown known as soon as possible :)

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're really paranoid:

a) don't eat beef
b) don't take creatine or other products derived from beef
c) don't eat animals at all

Of course if you're going to become a vegetarian, make sure you follow a smart diet to get complete nutrition. I choose not to eat meat just from the standpoint that I feel more energetic. The fact that it is also good for me is nice bonus.

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow!, you mean that we all other people can practice cannibalism without worry about vCJD. This news is better than the cure of the AIDS, thanks.

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[FidelCatsro]

I wouldn't worry about contracting CJD from beef. there were 129 cases of CJD in the UK in the period spanning 1996-2002 , the second highest incidence rate was in France with 6 over that period , the remanning 4 countries with cases had 1 a piece .
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs180/en /

So the world incidence rate over the period spanning 1996-2002 was 1 in 35,971,223(assuming the world population of 5,000,000,000)
The risk in the UK was roughly (assuming a population of 60 million) was 1 in 465,116 this is in England remember .. the chances in Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland are far smaller (I'm not sure if there have even been any reported cases there)
if you remove the probable and suspected cases the numbers drop significantly(93 cases) and there is still no evidence to prove that these cases were all caused by infected beef

I would worry more about driving to work , crossing the road , falling down stairs or being murdered by a close friend or relative

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[Anonymous Coward]

So how do you account for the >100 confirmed deaths in the UK?

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[hattig]

Isn't American beef full of growth hormones that is giving preteen girls tig ol' bitties because of the number of burgers they eat each year (I'm sure that there is plenty of more expensive 'organic' beef available as well, just like you can buy tastier free range chicken instead of battery farmed chicken, but how many people /care/ about these aspects?)

I know what I don't want in food, and that is things added deliberately by humans to increase yield without any consideration of the ongoing effects. Genetically Modified crops, growth hormones ... yuck. I think that American beef is banned in many parts of the world (probably in Europe as well) because of this. If British beef is still banned in the US despite being totally safe to eat, then the reasons are probably more political than actual concern about the health of the serfs.

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[Agripa]

Just eating a high fat diet which hamburgers and milk would certainly contribute to can account for the earlier maturation of girls. The digestive system is very good about breaking down what you eat so any effect from the trace amounts of hormones in beef or milk would be very difficult to distinguish from a rich diet.

You can see this effect in reverse with women athletes in reverse where if their body fat level is low enough they cease menstruation.

Specifically, a lot of hormones are derivatives of cholesterol and it's level affects their production.

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[Sancho]

That's known cases.
The symptoms of CJD are close enough to alzheimers that some percentage of alzheimers patients could easily have had CJD and were simply never tested posthumously. Then there are people who may have contracted CJD but died before manifesting any symptoms. The numbers could easily be scarier than are reported.

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[Grym]

"The facts are..."

"+1 interesting" as it may be, from that point on the parent was utterly wrong.

Some definitions: TSE is the general name of the TYPE of disease. Bovine Spongiform Encephalitis (BSE), or "Mad Cow's Disease", is the specific name of the disease as it appears in bovine, or cows. Creutzfeldt-Jakob (CJD) disease is the specific name of the disease at it appears in people.

Some common points of confusion:

• There are multiple forms of CJD, dependent upon how it is contracted
• cCJD, or Classical CJD is a genetic form
• In cCJD, YOUR BODY produces the malfolded protein (prion) which causes the disease. This is rare and ONLY manifests itself in the elderly (>55). It is a rare genetic defect (about 1:1 million) that causes this.
• nCJD (or sometimes nvCJD) is the acquired form of the disease. It can be acquired from contact with any infected bodily fluid and, of course, meat. It can affect anyone of any age.
• A person can get nCJD by contact with a cow with BSE OR a person with cCJD. This is why they aren't allowing blood transfusions of possibly infected people.
• All people are susceptible to the disease. It's simply a matter of contracting the disease. This is difficult to do if you: 1. Don't practice cannibalism (prevent contact to CJD) 2. Slaughter cows without coming into contact with the brain or spine (prevent contact to BSE) and 3. Prevent contact with an infected patient's spinal fluid (this really only applies to healthcare professionals, but it's fundamentally no different from #1)

-Grym

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[insert cool name]

Given the odds, you can expect perhaps 10-20 cases of CFD in Europe in the next 50 years, unless the victims dies in a car accident beforehand, which is much more likely.

I hope this is true, but the figures from the CJD observation unit don't back it up. http://www.cjd.ed.ac.uk/figures.htm

Since 1990 the number of deaths from definite or probable vCJD is 150.

This is for the UK only (not the whole of Europe), is a figure for deaths rather than just cases and for a period of much less than 50 years. The figure does include deaths that are not confirmed to be new variant CJD, but I assume this means they may be from a different CJD varient rather than something else totally unrelated. The number of definitely confirmed deaths is 107.

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[Agripa]

Support what? Ridley's book has an entire chapter aptly named "Politics" discussing the various genes and proteins involved as well as the demographics of susceptible groups and transmission methods. I think the parent post was a gross oversimplification of what Ridley wrote so I suggest reading Ridley's book even if only for this one chapter.

There is an extensive bibliography but he lists three works in particular:

1. Rosalind Ridley and Harry Baker, Fatal Protein (Oxford University Press, 1998)
2. Richard Rhodes, Deadly Feasts (Simon and Schuster, 1997)
3. Robert Klitzman, The Trembling Mountain (Plenum, 1998)

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[Roxton]

I don't consider myself well-informed on this issue, but take a look at this FDA report.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/bse-ra.html

"Because scientific evidence suggests that the presence and infectivity of abnormal prion proteins in vCJD share characteristics with abnormal prion proteins found in cattle with BSE, scientists have concluded that exposure to the BSE agent is the most plausible explanation for the occurrence of vCJD (Refs. 5 - 8). Monkeys (genetically the closest animal model to humans) inoculated with samples of brain from BSE-infected cattle have been found to develop a TSE that is histopathologically similar to vCJD (Ref. 9), as have mice inoculated or fed with BSE-infected tissue (Ref. 10)."

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[ifwm]

Ok so double them. Or triple them. It's still insignifcant.

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[JabberWokky]

As one of the few people who seems to understand what you are saying (most replies focused on the past rates of identified infection just by CJD), I agree wholeheartedly.

It's not BSE and CJD that are scary. It is the concept of chain reaction protein warping. Since most (or all) of my biological processes depend at some point on proteins, I'm rather fond of keeping their configuration exactly the way they are.

Prions are conceivably the nanotech nightmare of grey ooze... a wave of mechanical transformation of our constituent chemicals that wipes out everything it comes in contact with. It is probably unlikely, yes... and well worth studying to find just how likely newly arising prions are, and what methods (if any) can be used to actively combat them.

--
Evan

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[truckaxle]

Just about everything you posted in wrong. For example if contacting CJD requires a genetic defect then how do you explain the cluster of CJD found in southern Idaho recently (please no hillbilly jokes). European cows and sheep where effected in huge numbers because of feeding practices and not inbreeding.

Also Kuru a prion disease found in tribes in New Guinea was found to be caused by a tradition of eating dead relatives as a religious practice.

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[mikesmind]

There are other theories about how Mad Cow disease originates. Could it be we aren't raising cows, the way cows are supposed to be raised?

Mad Cows, Copper, Manganese & Dishonesty by Mark Purdey

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[climb_no_fear]

Cannabalism ?

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[Anonymous Coward]

All people are susceptible to the disease.It's simply a matter of contracting the disease. This is difficult to do if you: 1. Don't practice cannibalism (prevent contact to CJD) 2. Slaughter cows without coming into contact with the brain or spine (prevent contact to BSE) and 3. Prevent contact with an infected patient's spinal fluid (this really only applies to healthcare professionals, but it's fundamentally no different from #1)

There is also sCJD for sporadic sCJD, which occurs at ~1:1,000,000. These are cases in which CJD has been diagnosed and all known forms of transmission have been ruled out.

Another thing, PRPsc has been found in muscle tissue from the thigh of the rat and from the spleens of just about every other animal with prion disease. So, other tissues harbor PRPsc to easily detectable amounts. Also, there are people harboring "mutations" in their PRP sequence that appear to be resistant to PrPsc. It is unclear whether this resistance is 100% as the numbers for just about everything related to CJD are very small.

Currently, there have been 2 cases of blood transfusion transmission of CJD. You can search the journal Lancet for both papers, I believe. The case for 1 of the 2 is much better then the other. So far blood transmission has been shown to be possible, but the probability of transmission is unknown and could be very low. The difficulty in detecting PRPsc in the blood is more circumstantial evidence that blood transmission may be difficult.

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[khallow]

I guess that depends whether your uncle is the same species as you or not.

Re:Mad Cow and CFD is a hype - it is safe.

[khallow]

I have a feeling the other writer wants to add zeros.

So what happens?

[Anonymous Coward]

...if this is actually as common as i think due to fast food?

Tough work

[pedestrian crossing]

I have a friend who worked in a lab that was trying to develop a test for MCD, and my hat goes off to the people who do this kind of work.

Since so little is known about the exact infection process, known infected brain samples have to be handled -very- carefully. Working in a high-level biohazard environment is not easy, and is very stressful.

Already exists

[tod_miller]

I think it is a simple gender test, if she is female then she will. Women.

On a ligher note:

X-Bender: Oh, so, just 'cause a robot wants to kill humans that makes him a radical?

Did anyone else notice the X-* headers that slashdot returns? Funny.

Re:Already exists

[Anonymous Coward]

In fairness, most of us use a web browser to read Slashdot. Props on using telnet slashdot.org 80 though, that's impressive.

Do you hand encode your posts when you post them, out of interest?In fairness, most of us use a web browser to read Slashdot. Props on using telnet slashdot.org 80 though, that's impressive.

Do you hand encode your posts when you post them, out of interest?

Banned

[dcw3]

I'm an American who lived in Europe for six years. From the time I returned to the US, until the ban was enacted, I was able to donate blood on a regular basis. I was surprised, when I was filling out the standard donation questioneer, to find that they had changed the rules, and I was suddenly unable to donate. Does this really make any sense at all? Are Europeans not donating blood? Has there been a single documented case of someone contracting Mad Cow through a blood donation? If so, are the risks of getting it worse than those of not having an adequate blood supply?

Re:Banned

[Spad]

The chance of somebody contracting CJD from a blood transfusion donated by someone who'd visited the UK for 6 months is essentially negligible, but it only takes one case for the media to turn it into a circus and blame the government for not protecting people.

Re:Banned

[hattig]

Some people would rather die than run a risk of 1 in a million of getting some naughty prions in their blood transfusion. Before dying they'd make some lawyers richers however, and the publicity just isn't worth it for the American government.

I wonder how many AIDS infected blood transfusion get past the tests each year? I sure more than 1 in a million Americans have AIDS, it's probably more like 1 in 10,000? (Fake Edit: I've looked it up, there are 1 million Americans with AIDS or HIV, that's 1 in 300, and those are the people that know about it). If 1 in 10,000 HIV enfected blood samples got past the tests, and 1 in 10,000 donations is unknowingly HIV infected, then 1 in 100,000,000 donations is bad. That's probably one every year or two. I expect that is a far more risky issue than this one. Oh well.

Re:Banned

[Renraku]

One person dying from lack of blood is better than 1,000 people dying from a brand-spankin-new epidemic that they were infected with 5 years ago but didn't know it.

Re:Banned

[DrMindWarp]

Has there been a single documented case of someone contracting Mad Cow through a blood donation?

The answer is very probably. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4699349.stm

Re:Banned

[Mccavity91k]

Speaking as both a previous blood donor center technician and as a medical laboratory tech, which includes transfusion services (not to mention the fact that I'm an American currently living in Europe, and can't donate either), the person that made this article is using older limitations. The current limitations (for vCJD) are: lived in Europe for > 6 months between 1980 and 1995, or lived in Europe for greater than 5 years from 1980 until the current year (these are the limitations for the Armed Services Blood Bank, and it may be different from other blood bank associations).

The reason these limitations exist is because of how little is known about vCJD (Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease). The bit about prions is still debated, although it is the widely accepted theory.

There is no case of vCJD that has been caught from a blood transfusion, although there have been cases from cornea or dura mater transplants or the administration of human-derived pituitary growth hormones (this from WHO).

There is also some question about the possibility of transmission from people who have had beef insulin (from before we could grow human insulin in sterile conditions). Any of these items automatically mean an indefinite deferral until there is a test available for vCJD that can be performed easily (i.e. not in a big research lab by post-doctorates), like the EIA or PCR tests that exist for HIV, Hepatitis C virus, or Cytomegalovirus.

The blood donation community as a whole got really burnt, first when HIV came out, then when Hepatitis C virus was discovered (a close family member of mine caught HCV from a blood transfusion years ago). So, the FDA, which governs blood donations, (blood, since it is transfused, is considered to be a drug by the FDA, and is held to all the same standards as any pharmaceutical company) is incredibly jumpy about any disease which exists or can exist in the blood getting transfused, and contributing to an epidemic amongst people that are already unhealthy (you don't get blood transfused unless something's wrong, right?).

You should have seen how quickly they clamped down on SARS. We had to start asking all potential donors if they had SARS or SARS-like symptoms, and if in the last 14 days, they had travelled to any SARS endemic countries, and we still do.

Europeans are donating blood, just not in America. Those countries make their own laws, and, since it's considered endemic, as well as very rare, they ask certain questions to find risky history, but do not defer for vCJD based on location to the best of my knowledge. The FDA has chosen to do so to prevent the spread from Europe to America.

As far as the risks, vCJD is a fatal disease with no cure, no matter how you slice it, just like HIV/AIDS or Hepatitis C. To ask the question like that is to ask if it's worth the risk to have Chronic Hepatitis C in 10 years in exchange for a blood transfusion when you need it. Some people that have caught it from a transfusion say it was worth having their life saved, and some say they would rather have bled to death. Personally, I'd rather err on the side of caution, and use what blood we have, instead of making that decision for another person.

Re:Banned

[Mccavity91k]

I've done the test for HIV on hundreds of blood units myself. The current test we have uses PCR, or Polymerase Chain Reaction, to duplicate the viral DNA billions of times before we test. The only way it gets past us is if the person was infected in the previous 3 days or so before donating, which is why we ask all those personal questions to try to rule them out. If you've had a blood transfusion, used a drug by needle (and we check for track marks), even had sex with a man (if male. If female, had sex with a man that has had sex with a man), we ask, and, depending on the length of time, we can defer you, sometimes for the rest of your life.

This, opposed to a disease we have no test for, much less one so accurate. Besides, that attitude caused Hepatitis C to be even more prevalent than HIV, because we used to think it was worth the risk (until we found out that it lies dormant and comes back in 10 or 15 years).

The key to beating diseases like this are to stop them from spreading BEFORE they become an epidemic. We've learned that the hard way.

Re:Banned

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you know if vCJD can be contracted through cow's milk? After daily workout I consume quite a lot of whey proteins and that worries me...

Re:Banned

[Mccavity91k]

Short answer: No. Not to mention, that stuff is pasteurized.

Of course, we don't know everything about vCJD, so I can't say that with 100% certainty, but it seems pretty certain that it has more to do with the brain than with the milk.

Plus, it's not like this is a common infection amongst cows. Pretty much, just cows that have been fed other cows' brains, just like the human CJV, known as "kuru", is only caught by eating human brains.

Re:Banned

[InvaderXimian]

I think their blood supply is slim in general and not because people are banned from donating due to this. I was in Bosnia recently and my aunt was going to try to get me to donate blood. I haven't been back there in almost 10 years so I'm seeing some family for the first time and she thought it was important enough to get me to donate blood. You can assume that the blood donation rules are a bit more relaxed there on this matter.

Somehow I got out of it and I'm glad. Donating blood in a 3rd world country is not my idea of a good time. Especially after I went to visit one of the 3rd world country hospitals for my illness from drinking 3rd world country well water but that's another story.

I tried donating blood here on April 1st (no joke) and was "indefinitely deferred" due to this issue. I still kept that paper they gave me as a novelty of sorts.

Re:Banned

[jasonditz]

I think it's more a question of mounting nationalism. They're not so much worried about mad cow disease but contracting royalist tendancies or damaging the flag worship gene. European blood is downright unAmerican... and if you've been their long enough your blood might be suspect too.

Re:Banned

[jsebrech]

Short answer: No. Not to mention, that stuff is pasteurized.
Of course, we don't know everything about vCJD, so I can't say that with 100% certainty, but it seems pretty certain that it has more to do with the brain than with the milk.

I thought pasteurization did not affect prions. That you could burn them in an open fire and they weren't destroyed.

Re:Banned

[Mccavity91k]

Could be. I'm not a research scientist, I work on the clinical side of things. I would think that the risk of that is still incredibly low. First, you'd have to have a cow that was infected, but not showing symptoms, then the prions would have to make its way into the milk producing parts (no small feat ), then survive the entire milk production and sterilization process.

All research I've looked at don't say anything about vCJD going through milk though. I'm pretty sure he's safe.

Re:Banned

[Ed Avis]

Milk isn't sterilized, just pasteurized. (Well it depends on where you live, but I think in anglophone countries pasteurization is normal.) That's not enough to even kill all the microorganisms in the milk. At some stage, there was talk of throwing away all surgical instruments rather than sterilizing them since the temperatures used weren't high enough to destroy the bad prion. Milk is pasteurized at a much lower temperature than that.

Re:Banned

[Clod9]

Personally, I'd rather err on the side of caution, and use what blood we have, instead of making that decision for another person.

I agree. People make value judgements about surgery with the assumption that a blood transfusion is safe, or at least as safe as we can make it. Changing that would require a re-appraisal of risk across the board by doctors and patients. I know that the blood supply is perennially low, but I think the current balance is about right (and I do donate blood).

One of my children had a condition for which surgery was the only possible treatment, and there was a good chance that a transfusion would be required. We elected surgery (rather than not treating the condition) partly because I know that the local blood bank goes to great lengths to ensure quality. If I knew there was a pantheon of problems in the blood supply that they chose not to pay attention to, my child would probably not have had surgery and would have had to just live with the condition for the rest of his life. A tough call, and the risks of infection from hospital and blood transfusion were really the most important criteria in the decision.

Re:Banned

[jsebrech]

I've read that due to the various strategies of producing more milk per cow a lot of the milk-producing cows have constant udder infections, and so through their blood stuff could end up in milk.

How's that for a gross thought of the day?

I still drink cow milk though. It's yummy.

Mad MPAA

[icecow]

Prions are infringing upon the intellectual property of bovines.

VCJD in the US

[jcaren]

Of course, we all know that this disease does
not occur within the states, mainly because
it is a federal offence to even mention the
possiblity of it :-)

I ask you what is safer, wipe out the disease
or discussion (and therefore action).

Jacqui

eat steak eat steak

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw this on the news today at the end of their headlines, they then switched to a commercial without flashing a logo or any pause. The commercial started with a little song "eat steak, eat steak..."
Not sure if that was intentional or not but it was a bit disturbing.

80% no passport

[jurt1235]

Maybe the 20% with passport are overly present in de the donorgroup?

Re:80% no passport

[Mccavity91k]

Not to mention military members. The Armed forces has it's own blood donor center, and they've been hit especially hard by this. Now imagine all the people that have served a normal 2 year tour in germany or italy since 1980, remembering that you do not need a passport if you're in that situation, and the numbers suddenly jump.

Was Lance Armstrong mad cow positive in '99?

[faramir_fr]

Well you never know...

Re:Was Lance Armstrong mad cow positive in '99?

[hattig]

Poor frenchy (loving affectionate term for a frog) can't handle the fact that people in other countries can ride bicycles as well? If your riders took the strings of onions and garlic off they'd have a chance of winning.

Lance Armstrong is a cancer survivor that has taken hundreds of drugs tests during the past 6 years, and he passed them all. As he said himself, he'd be retarded to put his health at risk. What he has done should be seen as an inspiration to everyone. What is it with human nature and the need to put successful people down anyway? We British are masters of this insane behaviour :(

Now that our cricket team is on the verge of winning a test match against the Australians for the first time in 18 years or so, it won't be long before they get negative attacking press from The Scum, The Spews Of The World and so on.

btw: What do you call a Frenchman with Mad Cow Disease? Crazy Frog!

Re:Was Lance Armstrong mad cow positive in '99?

[LuSiDe]

What a hate against the French. But, a few days ago (i think it was friday) a friend told me she heard on the radio Armstrong actually was tested positive. Thats not the French media saying it, who said it so many times (esp certain newspapers). I have not seen the actual source but it makes one wonder. Perhaps mr. Armstrong commented on it as well, defending himself. I don't know.

PS: I'm not French nor do i hate Americans so keep that BS before you. Thanks.

Donation Bans: Poster is Wrong

[Kevin Nichols]

The poster is wrong in stating that anyone who has lived 6 months or more in Europe cannot give blood. It's not actually that strict. The full details are here: RC Donor Eligibility.

Re:Donation Bans: Poster is Wrong

[jcorno]

That changed in the last two weeks, I believe. Or at least that's when I found out about the change. The 6 months in Western Europe ban was in effect for at least 4 years.

Re:Donation Bans: Poster is Wrong

[oneiros27]

It used to be. They've relaxed it recently. (I know, because I was trying to figure out why there was the ban, as I'm in the group banned, and freaked me out even more when the relaxed the rules, but I was still in the banned group.)

Here's the notice they've been sending out whenever we have a blood drive at work:

Effective March 1, 2005, the American Red Cross has significantly changed the restrictions for deferral of donors who have traveled to various parts of the world. Previously, the restrictions were 3 months total from 1980 to 1996 in the UK and 6 months total for the UK and Europe.

Now, the criteria is as follows for deferral:

Since January 1, 1980 through December 31, 1996-

• Spent a total time that adds up to 3 months or more in any country in the United Kingdom.
• Were a member of the U.S. military, a civilian military employee, or a dependent of a member of the US Military that spent a total of 6 months on or associated with a military base in any of the following areas during the specified time frames-
  • From 1980 through 1990-Belgium, the Netherlands (Holland), or Germany
  • From 1980 thorough 1996-Spain, Portugal, Turkey, Italy or Greece

Since January 1, 1980 to present-

Spent a total time that adds up to 5 years or more in Europe (includes time spent n the UK from 1980 through 1996 and time associated with the military bases in Europe as outlined above)

The rest of the deferral requirements remain the same.

From the research I did, there were suggestions that military folks were likely to visit the UK -- I couldn't find anything that suggested that have reason to believe that there was tainted meat on the bases.

Re:Donation Bans: Poster is Wrong

[Dacmot]

If you're going to correct the poster please read your own sources. It's 3 months in UK, 6 months if in the military or civilian military employee in certain european countries and 5 years almost everywhere in Europe. Here are the *actual* rules:

In-Depth Discussion of Variant Creutzfeld-Jacob Disease and Blood Donation

In some parts of the world, cattle can get an infectious, fatal brain disease called Mad Cow Disease. In these same locations, humans have started to get a new disease called variant Creutzfeld-Jacob Disease (vCJD) which is also a fatal brain disease. Scientists believe that vCJD is Mad Cow Disease that has somehow transferred to humans, possibly through the food chain.

There is now evidence from a small number of case reports involving patients and laboratory animal studies that vCJD can be transmitted through transfusion. There is no test for vCJD in humans that could be used to screen blood donors and to protect the blood supply. This means that blood programs must take special precautions to keep vCJD out of the blood supply by avoiding collections from those who have been where this disease is found.

At this time, the American Red Cross donor eligibility rules related to vCJD are as follows:

You are not eligible to donate if:
From January 1, 1980, through December 31, 1996, you spent (visited or lived) a cumulative time of 3 months or more, in the United Kingdom (UK), or

From January 1, 1980, to present, you had a blood transfusion in any country(ies) in the (UK). The UK includes any of the countries listed below.

• Channel Islands
• England
• Falkland Islands
• Gibraltar
• Isle of Man
• Northern Ireland
• Scotland
• Wales

You were a member of the of the U.S. military, a civilian military employee, or a dependent of a member of the U.S. military who spent a total time of 6 months on or associated with a military base in any of the following areas during the specified time frames

• From 1980 through 1990 - Belgium, the Netherlands (Holland), or Germany
• From 1980 through 1996 - Spain, Portugal, Turkey, Italy or Greece.

You spent (visited or lived) a cumulative time of 5 years or more from January 1, 1980, to present, in any combination of country(ies) in Europe, including

• in the UK from 1980 through 1996 as listed in above
• on or associated with military bases as described above, and
• in other countries in Europe as listed below:
  • Albania
  • Austria
  • Montenegro (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia)
  • Belgium
  • Bosnia/Herzegovina
  • Bulgaria
  • Croatia
  • Norway
  • Poland
  • Czech Republic
  • Denmark
  • Romania
  • Finland
  • France
  • Slova k Republic (Slovakia)
  • Germany
  • Greece
  • Spain
  • Hungary
  • Irela nd (Republic of)
  • Italy
  • Kosovo (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia)
  • Liechtenstein
  • Luxembourg
  • Macedonia
  • Netherlands (Holland)
  • Portugal
  • Serbia (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia)
  • Slovenia
  • Sweden
  • Switzerland
  • Turkey
  • Yugoslavia (Federal Republic includes Kosovo, Montenegro, and Serbia)

Re:Donation Bans: Poster is Wrong

[Fishsticks]

From the research I did, there were suggestions that military folks were likely to visit the UK -- I couldn't find anything that suggested that have reason to believe that there was tainted meat on the bases.

As a military dependent in the UK in the early 90s, I can tell you that we did not exclusively eat on base (in fact for about a year we didn't even live on the base), so whether or not the base's meat was tainted was irrelevant.

Re:Donation Bans: Poster is Wrong

[Iambic Pentametor]

The crazy part is that they PRESUME you're eating meat. What if you are a vegetarian?

Re:Donation Bans: Poster is Wrong

[khallow]

The more complex the question is, the more likely someone is to answer it wrong. A more accurate question would be whether you had eaten a signficant quantity of beef in these countries. I guess they figure the risk of an infected person getting in outweighed the number of people that would be filtered out by this ban. After all, one person with an undetectable (er, using current tests) bloodborn infectious agent can potentially infect a several recipients (due to blood mixing) each time they donate.

Further those donors could in turn infect others. Hmmm, that leads to an interesting thought. Going back to the RC rules for donating blood, here's what they have to say about transfusions.

Blood Transfusion
Wait for 12 months after receiving a blood transfusion from another person in the United States. You may not donate if you received a blood transfusion since 1980 in the United Kingdom (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Channel Islands, Isle of Man), Gibraltar or Falkland Islands. This requirement is related to concerns about variant CJD, or 'mad cow' disease. Learn more about variant CJD and blood donation.

You may not donate if you received a blood transfusion in certain countries in Africa since 1977. This requirement is related to concerns about rare strains of HIV that are not consistently detected by all current test methods. Learn more about HIV Group O, and the specific African countries where it is found.

I find this disturbing because there seems to be no check on the transmission of undetected infectious agents aside from these two. Ie, if I receive a transfusion in the states from someone with a blood-borne undetected pathogen. Then when I get healthy enough, I can turn around and donate blood myself! If the pathogen takes a while to manifest symptoms (eg, like HIV or prions), then a lot of people could be infected.

Cost effectiveness...

[Savage-Rabbit]

... is certainly an important consideration but the really important question everyone here wants an answer to is:

Will this test work on /. moderators!?!

Re:Cost effectiveness...

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure about that?

Missing Poll Option: vegetarian

[fantomas]

If you were a vegetarian since before Maggie Thatcher and her chums decided to allow farmers to feed cows on recycled other cows, you'd not have eaten meat with the higher level of CJD infection - I think ? At least that's what I'm hoping :-)

Re:Missing Poll Option: vegetarian

[bloo9298]

Perhaps, but cutting it a bit fine.

Oh my, yes

[payndz]

Until now, the only way to positively ID those infected was to dissect the brain.

Am I the only one who imagined Professor Farnsworth saying that, with a degree of relish?

Re:Oh my, yes

[despik]

Oh my, yes, relish, and a dollop of mustard.

Re:Oh my, yes

[Citizen of Earth]

Leela: Is this some sort of brain scanner?

Farnsworth: Some sort yes. In France it's called a "guillotine."

[He pulls a lever. Leela gasps and jumps out of the way, narrowly missing the blade.]

Leela: Professor! Can't you examine my brain without removing it?

Farnsworth: Yes. Easily.

[Futurama 4:12]

Re:Oh my, yes

[Anonymous Coward]

> Am I the only one who imagined Professor Farnsworth saying that, with a degree of relish?

Only to have him follow that up by saying: "Good news, everybody!" ? :)

Mad cow? Not a chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fact 1: There has never been a case of Mad Cow detected in any retail product, anywhere, ever.

Fact 2: The latest theories support that some unfortunate people have a genetic, fast-moving version of Althimerzers disease, and there NO connection with cattle product.

Fact 3: With 6 billion people on the planet, there is a very high chance that a few dozen people will have a fast-moving, genetic disease like that. To pawn it off of health problems on the poor cattle industry is criminal. Those who do so have an immoral agenda.

Actually...

[Torfbolt]

I thought everybody already knew THE Mad Cow Test
http://www.cybersalt.org/cleanlaugh/madcow.htm

Offensive

[Frankie70]

I find the title of this slashdot article rather offensive. I would prefer "New mentally challenged Cow Test on the Horizon?" Editors, take note.

UK in Europe

[dune73]

UK UK [wikipedia.org] is generally considered part of Europe.

Re:UK in Europe

[Anonymous Coward]

That's fascinating, but totally irrelevent. The comment at the end is not "in Europe or the UK", it's just "in Europe".

eg: if you spent 3 months in the UK, you're banned.

if you spent 2 months in the UK, and four months in France, then you're also banned.

'kay?

Prisons?

[rtt]

"Prisons are thought to be responsible for mad cow disease"

Don't tell me i'm the only one...

Start by checking your own "facts"

[Anonymous Coward]

It's vCJD - as in "variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease" - not nCJD. What the hell is nCJD supposed to stand for? Nerd Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease?

Maybe you are getting it confused with nvCJD ... or maybe you're just a moron. Either way, the term nvCJD is deprecated. It used to mean "new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease," but after the disease had been recognized for over a decade, the term "new" was dropped.

You can leave now.

Re:Start by checking your own "facts"

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Either way, the term nvCJD is deprecated. It used to mean "new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease," but after the disease had been recognized for over a decade, the term "new" was dropped.

To me, the deprecation would seem unnecessary. The "new" variant only needs to be newer than the old one, unless an even newer variant has come along since then.

Re:Start by checking your own "facts"

[Grym]

You're right. Serves me right for posting minutes before class.

vCJD, varient CJD is also known as new varient CJD or nvCJD. That's where that n came from.

-Grym

Right

[Safety Cap]

which is why we ask all those personal questions to try to rule them out.

And everyone always tells the truth.

And the tooth fairy leaves money under your pillow in exchange for your teeth.

Re:Right

[Mccavity91k]

And what should we do instead? That's the best way we have, and we make sure we tell them that there is NO way that they can get into trouble for any answer. We even ask them in big blocks so they don't have to saw which question they're answering yes to. Besides, most people are terrible liars, especially to medical people (doctors and medical professionals are amongst the top trusted people in America), and don't think we don't notice when they jump at a certain question. Granted, we can't defer them for THAT, but we can defer for "appearance", meaning because we think there's something they're not telling us.

But, I ask again, do YOU have a better solution? Besides Orwellian monitoring of all people so we can know if they're lying...

Re:Right

[hattig]

Well, I suppose that's why I weighted it to 1 in 10,000 in 10,000 :) A little lie, and a bit of infective sex before the donation :)

But yes, there isn't anything else you can do at the moment. But in a dire shortage of blood, I expect you'll be accepting blood from tourists to Britain before people that had teh gay buttsechs a few days ago. However I'm sure you have books full of manual guidance and discussion about these issues, so I can't possibly recreate them in my head after a pile of alcohol :)

Re:Right

[Mccavity91k]

This is all, of course, the "optimum" method of doing things. Blood transfusions in a combat scenario are a completely different story. There's plenty of "what blood type are you? How sure are you of that? Okay, good enough, lemme see your arm"

No tech needed...

[mrch0mp3rs]

If you tip a cow, and it gets up and charges you.. chances are it's mad.
</dumb joke>

Just wait

[metamatic]

They're going to have to change the rules again. The current rules say nobody from a country that has BSE. Well, America now has BSE. So, either their donations are going to be very slim, or the rules are going to need revising again.

Safer Blood? Not Necessarily So!

[cannuck]

My daughter tripped while playing in a neighbor's backyard and fell against a fence which had 4 inch rusty nails protruding. The nail penetrated several inches into her thigh. I rushed her to the hospital. You need to know that this was in Canada during a time period when tens of thousands of Canadian's were given unsafe blood transfusions - that is, blood loaded with HIV particles. The Red Cross in Canada lied about heat treating the blood to destroy the HIV particles - and a special commission then banned the Red Cross from handling the blood supply in Canada - and just recently the Red Cross fined for lying at that time. While at the hospital - my family doctor and a dozen other doctors began to debate with me - trying to convince me - that I should allow gamma globulin shots - to ward off the possibilty of tetanus. All doctors kept telling me that the gamma globulin injections were completely safe. After several hours of debating - I was finally pressured into allowing the gamma globulin shots. Several months later I found out that in fact the blood used to make gamma globulin has not been heat treated - even though the doctors swore that it was!! So it ain't necessarily so - that because a better test is available - that the blood supply will be any safer. Those people in white coats more often than not make bad decisions - make bad judgements - when it comes to our well being.

Doesn't really affect donations, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a thought for those that think this doesn't have much impact on donations: Here in Maryland, you may know, there is a substantial presence of military and government personnel. The Red Cross relies -heavily- upon this base of people for donations. Relied, anyhow. I'm former military by more than 5 years and the last time I was in England was over 13 years ago. It was something of a shock to go into a local (totally civilian) fitness club to donate, only to read that I was ineligible, due to my time in the military.

I took the required reading to the lady directing that Red Cross event and it turns out she is from the UK and is also ineligible to donate! She explained that it really comes down to a matter of cost - currently there are tests that can reliably detect CJD in humans, but they are so time-consuming and (thus?) expensive that it's not worth it. Once more cost-effective tests are developed and implemented, expect to see this restriction disappear like smoke in the wind.

Armed forces

[jurt1235]

Yep.

With this live subject testing possibility it becomes possible to determine the real impact of BSE/vCJD on the cow and human population. There have been estimates in the past of several 100000 british who will eventually die from this disease. Now they can verify that number (and create relief/cause wide spread panic while they are at it anyway)

Mad Cow Test

[NotFamous]

Sample questions from the "Are you a Mad Cow?" test:

1. Do you often feel your section of the pasture has a higher percentage of weeds
2. Do you have frequent dreams related to tipping? Do you land?
3. Do you often have difficulty "showing affection" in the stall?
4. Do you read Slashcow?

Amazing

[WindBourne]

Back in 1980-81 (yes, 1980), I was working at CDC with Reagan speaking against Herpes as being the big killer. At the time, we were looking at a new something sweeping through the gay community. Of course, CDC went to reagan as soon as he became president to ask for money (prevention, not cure). It was turned down. One of the underlieing assumptions that reagan operated under was that it would spread in the gay community (none from CDC said that, but ppl in the reagan admin did). In addition, it was assumed that it would only strike a very small percentage of the population. What amazed me was the sheer number of people who were certain of that "fact" in 1982 (oh yes, this was long before the public understood). By the time that 1985 came around, it was sheer panic in america as the number of idiots who claimed that AIDs was nothing, were swept away by the sheer number of infections.

I also remember being introduced to the concept of prions. The concept was brand new in 198[12]. Now, I see ppl such as yourself and UPAAntilles who downplayed this, with little to no information. This disease is a large unknown. It is not really known underwhat circumstances you can pick it up. I suspect that by the time we really understand it, we will already have a very high infection rate.

The interesting thing about bugs, is that everybody fears things like ebola. Yet, it moves so fast, that it really is easy to contain. HIV is slow start-up, so was harder to catch and contain (are they infected or not?). Now, we have a bug? that takes years to show an infection. It may be 30 years before we find out that eating that beef from texas (were 3 cases of MCD were from), has infected 10 million americans. Or maybe the elk/deer/antelope from Colorado will infect the cattle in colorado (is there a difference between CWD and MCD? So far, we do not know) which will then infect.

Heartbeat Test for BSE

[handy_vandal]

See also this non-invasive heartbeat-analysis test:

BSE breakthrough as heartbeat test reveals first symptoms

"When an animal is infected with prions, its heart rate becomes more variable. All you have to do is take five minutes' worth of electrocardiograms and feed these into a laptop computer fitted with special software. Within seconds, it can tell you if you are dealing with an infected animal or not.'"

Fried Green Tomatoes

[Anonymous Coward]

When building robots that build robots that build robots you need to stop them from taking parts from existing robot so the population will grow. Insert a prion type software program and the robots will not be able to destroy the others. Did the movie have anything to do with this CJD.I wonder.

a different Mad Cow theory

[nido]

I think Mark Purdey, a British Organic Beef farmer who's never had a mad cow, has a much more plausible & comprehensive theory concerning the development of Mad Cows.

Executive summary:

In the early-80's, there was a warble fly epidemic in the british cow fleet. Warble flys punch holes in cow hides, making them unsuitable for high-quality leather products. In their infinite wisdom, the british government decided that all british cows needed to be treated with a pesticide that kills warble flies.

The pesticide was a synthetic organo-phosphate (an oily concoction), that was applied along the spine of the cow. Not only did it kill warble flies, it also chelated (removed) copper from the cow's system.

Then in 1986, chernobyl went off, blanketing the countryside with radioactive isotopes. Copper-deficient cows picked up some of these radioactive minerals to replace the copper they'd lost to the pesticide.

There's also something about manganese (commonly used in textile manufacturing) substituting for copper.

As an organic farmer, Mark Purdey had no intention of using a synthetic pesticide on his cows. So he sued, and was allowed an exemption to using this pesticide. He's never had a mad cow, not even amoung his cows who are reformed carnivores, so he must be doing something right.

Much more information on his website.

Mad About Cattle

[Doc Ruby]

Mad Cow Disease (CJD), is caused by the accumulation of prions, once a very rare self-replicating type of protein, in a cow. Which developed because cattle are being manufactured in the most economical way possible: feed cattle the unsaleable remains of their processed siblings, like brains. Most economical, that is, in terms only of the immediate bottom line, which is all the cattle industry is responsible for. In the longer run, the costs of CJD in humans, including people fleeing the beef market in terror, make cheaping out on cattleraising worse economics. But the costs get paid by the victims, and the governments, healthcare and insurance companies left holding the bag.

So it's very important that we have accurate, fast, cheap tests for CJD. It would be even better if we enforced laws that prohibit the devastating biofeedback systems that produce and amplify these kinds of diseases in our food industries. But instead of prevention, governments like Blair's, and especially Bush the "Texas rancher (TM)", will ignore the source of the disease, because that would hold their bribers^Wsupporters liable. We're obviously stuck with new threats like Mad Cow Disease - at least we'll know more quickly when the damage has been done.

Re:Mad About Cattle

[Elf-friend]

Firstly, "Mad Cow Disease" is not CJD. "Mad Cow Disease," is Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE), a so-called Transmisable Spongiform Encephalopathy. TSE's occur in several species, including sheep and goats ("scrapie"), deer (Chronic Wasting Disease, or CWD), cattle, and man. CJD is a TSE which occurs in humans, as is Kuru, a disease found in the cannibals of New Guinea. To date, no proof has ever been found that a TSE can jump species, indeed, scrapie, in particular, is known not to be transmisable to man, or even cattle (except, perhaps, under higly-modified labratory conditions). In fact bio-feedback seems unlikely as the culprit, since that practice was common in many countries where BSE has not, or has only lately, occurred.

Bio-feedback is, IMHO, a canard. You say the governments are ignoring the source, but they have significantly curtailed bio-feedback. It is my belief that the blame was put on bio-feedback (a barbaric practice, to be sure, but probably not the cause of BSE) in order to avoid putting it on the real culprits: the chemical industry.

Prions are one possible cause for TSE's, but not the only possibility. While we can be fairly certain that prions are linked to TSE's, there is, as yet, no solid proof of causation. Life-long Vegitarians have contracted CJD, and the most common route seems to be person-to-person, though body fluids (not just blood).

A more probable culprit, according to not a few researchers, veterinarians, and physicians, is that pesticide residues have created chemical, or possibly genetic anomalies, which are the root cause of the TSE. These anomalies are also resonsible for the abnormal proteins (prions) produced in select individuals.

What we really need, more than a test for prions, is solid research that isn't funded by argi-business - research which can honestly examine the potential role of pesticide residues, in search of proof of a cause of TSE's. We also need less public hyteria (mostly the fault of the goverment and media) and more straightforward information. The fact may well be that eating mad-cow beef will not cause CJD. The culprit in any one case may just as likely be pesticide-contaminated vegitables, or a one-night stand - we just don't know yet.

Re:Mad About Cattle

[Doc Ruby]

From vCJD (Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease) page at the CDC:

Evidence for Relationship with BSE (Mad Cow Disease)

Since 1996, evidence has been increasing for a causal relationship between ongoing outbreaks in Europe of a disease in cattle, called bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE, or 'mad cow' disease), and vCJD. there is now strong scientific evidence that the agent responsible for the outbreak of prion disease in cows, BSE, is the same agent responsible for the outbreak of vCJD in humans.

Re:Mad About Cattle

[Elf-friend]

That is the government-enodrsed theory, yes. I personally know researchers and physicians who remain unconvinced. Too much of the research is affected by cauality fallacies, as well as questionable assumptions stemming from the lack of sufficient research on CJD prior to the BSE outbreak.

Re:Mad About Cattle

[Doc Ruby]

Do you believe that HIV causes AIDS?

Re:Mad About Cattle

[Elf-friend]

Honestly? I really have no way to know: I haven't researched the issue for myself. I know there are people who don't believe it, but I don't know any personally. The TSE issue is one I have researched, and am close too, as my family has raised sheep since 1984. I've learned a lot from USDA ispectors and also from my professors when I was an Animal Science student in college. I'm Catholic and un-married, so I'm not sexually active; therefore AIDS has never been a concern of mine. TSE's, on the other hand, are a major concern for anyone raising ruminant livestock right now.

Mad Cow

[johansalk]

If you've never seen a mad cow before this is how they behave http://www.totallytom.com/MadCow.html

Just what we need - more prions

[slickwillie]

They can't be easily destroyed. How do they plan to dispose of them?

Re:Just what we need - more prions

[Hannah E. Davis]

Wouldn't something that destroys regular proteins get the prions as well? To my knowledge, part of the problem with these little guys is that they're pretty much identical to the proteins that we need to live except for one thing -- their shape. If we had a vat of prions (instead of prions intermingled with regular proteins in the human body), I'm pretty sure that a protein digesting enzyme (protease? I forget) or a brief trip to a lysosome would do the trick.

But then again, I could be wrong. I'm not a biology major anymore, and I've only taken one genetics class (I think that was where I learned about prions), so I'm not exactly an expert :)

Re:Just what we need - more prions

[slickwillie]

I recall the guy who discovered prions saying he tried various methods to try to destroy them, including subjecting them to high heat. They survived. They aren't alive so they can't be killed. I don't think he tried any protein-digesting enzyme.

I just hope they don't pour the blood tests down the drain. Even routine medical waste disposal procedures probably aren't adequate.

Isn't it obvious?

[cowgoesmoo2004]

Moo!

Could you explain in more details?

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

If we're nice to hamsters, how will that prevent aliens from experimenting on us?

Another terrorist weapon?

[Anonymous Coward]

> 'developed a method of multiplying
> the number prions in a blood sample

Followed by aerosol spraying?

John....

[Hugonz]

See..? John Titor was right...

method of multiplying the number prions

[Anonymous Coward]

This testing system is dangerous and should not be allowed on the market. The formulas and other records should be destroyed immediately.

How about they stop feeding them each other?

[slashbott]

Maybe once more people figure out that these hellish 'factory farms' are feeding dead cows back to living cows there will be more of an outcry.

These animals are cannibals and this is why they contract this disease.

Makes a case to become vegetarian, imo.

Watch what you eat.

This is a good resource for more information: The Mad Cowboy.

Sure you want to know the answer?

[SeanDuggan]

One of the reasons is that shit's everywhere. No matter how much you disinfect the surfaces of your home, short of wearing a breathing mask at all times or clean-room level filtering, you're breathing in shit every day. Every bit of food has shit in it from exposure to the air. And the water you're drinking? {peers side to side to check to see if anyone's listening, leans in to whisper} Fish have peed in it...