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End of an Era For Zelda
Twilight Princess will represent the end of an era for Zelda games, according to Shigeru Miyamoto.From the Eurogamer article: "'This will be, without a doubt, the last Zelda game as you know it in its present form,' Miyamoto is quoted as saying. He declined to reveal any more details as to how the series will be reborn, but did go on to assure fans that Twilight Princess will be absolutely aces: 'Our goal was to make the best Zelda game ever. The most rich, satisfying and [melancholic]. I worked on it personally, moreso than Wind Waker. I haven't invested as much into any game as I have this one,' Miyamoto said."
Zelda Baseball.
Zelda Konga.
Zelda Golf.
Zelda Party!
Zelda Soccer.
Zelda Tennis.
Zelda Kart.
Dr. Zelda.
. . .
No!!! I always had an odd affinity for Luigi. He just as skilled as Mario, but always gets shunted to the side. Like in Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, it's kind of a joke that no one cares about Luigi. I'm gonna miss is little green overalls...
Miyamoto also revealed that Mario is getting a brand new sidekick, but kept firmly schtum on the details.
Now that Link is collecting welfare checks..
Zelda and Link will die.
It's the beginning of the Legend of Ganon.
Maybe now he can get some more time in practicing his musical instruments for Tetris end-scenes!!
Rather than just making a crap spinoff of such a great series, they should retire it with dignity.
In other news, DC Comics has decided to kill Superman. In a grand move by DC, they will a world faced with real loss and grief as their greatest hero falls.
"This isn't a ploy." He will be dead and buried, never to return. Superman has been with DC comics for decades, and his death will be a major turning point.
**Skip a month or 2 later**
Superman is back! Which one is he? Cyborg, young clone, black guy in a power suit, or energy-throwing guy with big glasses?
**Skip another month or 2 later **
FACE! The real superman has revealed himself. He never died, but was in stasis! Now he's fighting against the Cyborg to save the Earth.
I don't doubt that in a few years time we'll see another real Zelda game.
At the end of this game, they're going to reveal that Zelda's really just a disguised hedgehog. Then he'll go on to battle Sonic in later games, at least until they both band together to defeat Master Chief and Crash Bandicoot in a cart race.
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You guys aren't giving him enough credit. This is the man responsible for Mario, DK, and Zelda. Considering the fact that Nintendo already has those two mascots, why would he throw this last one away.
I'm sure he's aware of the fact that hardcore gamers don't like their most famous characters being abused, but he also is experienced enough to balance that with business needs.
He already has his business lapdogs, he doesn't need a third. This is will surely be a creative change.
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However, I don't think we'd outright see any games like that ever, even if there is a Mario Kart and Mario Golf. Instead I think there are a few different angles that Nintendo might be thinking of taking.
First up is the traditional RPG. Nintendo really hasn't had many of these on their console in the last few generations. The GameCube was an improvement over the N64, but considering the massive amounts of RPGs on the SNES and other current generation consoles like the PS2, Nintendo has fallen quite short of the mark in providing a plethora of worthwhile RPGs.
The Legend of Zelda universe would translate pretty well into an RPG. Turn based battles could be considered a real drag after the live action we're used to, but there are always the real time battles as found in the Star Ocean series and Tales of Symphonia. If anyone could make those feel perfect, I think it is Nintendo.
Another possibility is that the series really isn't undergoing a radical gameplay change or redesign but is instead changing other things around. The themes and characters may become more mature and feature voice acting that the other games in the series have lacked. I'm sure there are a lot of gamers out there who would appreciate a more mature based Legend of Zelda game with all the elements that other modern games have in them.
This could be conceived as radical and revolutionary because it's a complete departure from the "kiddy" style that Nintendo is often tagged with. Maybe it's just me but I don't think the main Zelda demographic is young children anymore. I think the game mechanics make it a little too complicated for anyone that young. The top down games of the past were pretty easy, but the 3D worlds of today require slightly more mastery.
Then again this could be a lot of talk to get the community stirred up about Nintendo and Zelda. Drop a line that a game a lot of people have grown up with and loved and the masses will go ballistic. This does seem a lot like a Nintendo PR grab. They tend to come out and talk about how they're going to revolutionize something or how radically different something is going to be instead of tossing out numbers on their console or how it will be the greatest thing since sliced bread.
There're a lot of other possibilities, but my money is that the games will take on a much more mature (or at least a lot less childish) nature, transition into more of an RPG, or that this is just a PR media attention grab from Nintendo while they work out the details of what they're going to do later.
He was really proud and happy about Wind Waker, and you people just couldn't take the style. "Oh, it's too kiddy". "Oh, Celda?". And Miyamoto says "FINE, I will make a realistic zelda, I will make the best Realistic Zelda ever, it will be an epic masterpiece of monumental stature and it will rock, and then I'M NEVER MAKING ANOTHER ONE YOU UNGRATEFUL BASTARDS". Except all that's in Japanese, but you get the idea.
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I'm wondering if the big change he is referring to is an MMORPG version of Zelda. Let me be the first to say KICKASS, and I will probably live in there if they make it.
Somone already did something like this. Back around 1998, some guy made a multiplayer online version of Legend of Zelda-a Link to the Past by reusing all the SNES game sprites and tiles. It was pretty cool. After a while, Nintendo caught on and sent them a cease-and-desist, and they changed the name to GRAAL, and slowly changed all the graphics. I guess that people still play Graal to this day. It was a good idea. I hope Nintendo does this.
Right, that's why people regard Ocarina as one of the worst games of all time. "FPS" model for Zelda? What FPS are you talking about? First Person Shooter? Zelda was a platformer/adventure game, in third person. Frames Per Second? Wind Waker played pretty smooth for me. Or are you insinuating that Zelda should be first person ala metroid prime? If you are then let me be the first to punch you in the face.
He said that Zelda would reborn in some different way. Not back to 2D. MMORPG maybe? Hyrule Online, that would kick ass! I wanna be a Zora motherfucker, and have one of those bitchin' bone guitars!
Anyway, just because you're an old bastard that had to walk 15 miles to school everyday, through snow, uphill bothways, and doesn't like this new fangled "3D" thing, doesn't mean other people don't, and judging by the reviews for the past 3 3d zelda games (OoT, MM and WW) and the amount of hype over this new title, it looks like you're in a very small minority.
You guys are pathetic. I bet most of you read the title and assumed you knew what the article meant. He means Zelda is changing in the same way it changed between A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time, and Mario is changing in same way it did between Super Mario World and Super Mario 64. As new features become available, games can take advantage of new gameplay possibilites not available before. The best example of this was the transition between 2D and 3D. Miyamoto is suggesting the Revolution is opening new doors to expand both the Mario and Zelda series. You guys should actually think about what you're saying.
No offense, but has it occurred to you that you might be just a bit too excitable about Zelda?
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
At the end of this game, they're going to reveal that Zelda's really just a disguised hedgehog. Then he'll go on to battle Sonic in later games, at least until they both band together to defeat Master Chief and Crash Bandicoot in a cart race.
Link.
damn straight.
3d just didn't work for the zelda series.
hell, i couldn't play ocarina of time for more than an hour before throwing it in the trash bin.
2d still has plenty of life in it... even if it's a pseudo-2d like that recent mario game.
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Who considers Ocarina to be one of the worst games of all time? I've played through like 15 times.. I may break out my n64 and play through again now that I'm thinking about it.
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No, I belive that honor goes to Water Closet. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, lucky you.
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If there was ever a man who earned the right to take whatever new directions he sees fit, it's Miyamoto. To put it mildly, the man knows what he's doing.
Anything you might ever need to say about anything has already been said better by Penny Arcade.
Going on the rumors I've heard about the gyro in the controller maybe the next game would have much more indepth combat revolving around dodging and swinging at the same time and all the weapons actually being solid objects that would clash against each other if two swings meet.
I'm also hoping that Mario Kart will be based on leaning into corners as it's next theme.
[20:36] wwwdot/.dotorg
Let me guess... you couldn't beat Ocarina of Time? :p
I'm sure you already know this, but you're in the vast minority. The three 3D Zeldas have each been top-rated and top-selling games on their respective consoles. Nearly every third-person adventure game since 1996 borrows some gameplay elements from OoT (targeting, context-sensitive commands, puzzle design). So whether you enjoyed the games or not, it's foolish to ignore their success and impact on the industry.
And by the way, there have been at least four 2D Zelda games since LttP. Are you implying that those are trash as well, or were you referring to only the 3D games?
I'm going to present a few speculative ideas as to where the series could go after Twilight Princess, but before that, here are the main Zelda games to date, sorted by type and numbered according to release order:
The Legend of Zelda (#1)
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (#2)
A Link to the Past (#3)
Link's Awakening (#4)
Oracle of Ages (#6A)
Oracle of Seasons (#6B)
Ocarina of Time (#5)
Majora's Mask (#7)
Wind Waker (#8)
Twilight Princess (forthcoming)
I don't count Four Swords Adventures in here (which would be #9) as it was more of a multiplayer action game with levels with a Zelda theme than a "real" Zelda.
Notice, the later eight games don't actually have that much in common with the first two. The three primary developments in the series were, undoubtably, the original NES Zelda, Link to the Past, and Ocarina of Time.
But it's kind of amazing, really, how much the series changed between the original NES game (#1) and LttP (#3). In contrast, the differences between LttP and Ocarina had less to do with gameplay and more to do with control and perspective. Those eight games are what Zelda has come to mean to players: a primary exploration gimmick, sequential dungeons with bosses that usually require the dungeon item to beat and caught up a Heart Container and a McGuffin when defeated, the hunt for hidden Pieces of Heart and minor McGuffins, get-this-to-go-there Metroid-style game progression, and a fairly leisurely game world when it comes to monsters and difficulty.
It's easy to forget, however, that much was changed between The Legend of Zelda to Link to the Past, things that cannot be explained away just by moving to the SNES, or the intervening (and even more different) Zelda II.
The biggest of these are:
1. The game was actually hard. The first Zelda is a good workout, and it gets much tougher (some may say too hard) in the Second Quest. Pieces of Heart are almost meaningless in later Zeldas; I eventually completed all of Ocarina of Time quite easily with only the three hearts I began with, and only had trouble during the fight with Ganon (and Nayru's Love took the edge entirely off of that). But in the original Zelda, the first thing you do is get *all* the Hearts you can easily get before even stepping foot into Level One.
A new Zelda could mark a return to the difficulty the series began with, and was also seen in Zelda II and Link's Awakening. (One problem with that, however, is that the current head of the Zelda series has said he doesn't like the original game's difficulty.)
2. The original Zelda had meaningful choices, something not seen a lot of in adventure games these days. Not that anyone really chose the Red Potion over the Heart Container, of course, or ever picked to lose a HC instead of 50 rupees if they could afford it in one of the Second Quest's infamous Money-Or-Life rooms. But the point is, that adventure games with meaningful failure states are quite rare.
My own personal favorite idea for how this could be made done (something I spent a fair bit of time playing around in Zelda Classic trying to figure out) is a system where each dungeon has *two*, mutually-exclusive, items, which allow the player to reach different areas in each game depending on the choices he's made.
3. As said before, starting with Link to the Past, the design began to resemble Metroid in progression. You get an item (usually in Level One) that lets you reach Level Two, the item in Level Two lets you reach Level Three, and so on. There are places where this skips, but most of the items work like this.
In the original game, however, you could explore, if I count right, 126 of the game's 128 overworld screens before going into even the first dungeon. And there's something to be said for this degree of player freedom, even if it's unfashionable in the game industry these days. The thing I loved best about the original game, that's never been duplicated in any of the later installments in the
Boy, I steered clear of Wind Waker because of all the bad things I heard about it. However, I hit a bit of a slow period and a friend of mine loaned it to me. I really regret my decision to pass it up. It's seriously one of the best games I've ever played.
In fact, I think if it hadn't been a Zelda game, the industry would be raving about its innovative gameplay and terrific graphics. Unfortunately it seems like the community really wanted OoT on steroids. Well, that's what it's getting with Twilight Princess. I'm sorry to read that Miyamoto wasn't happy with WW, but I certainly got a lot of fun out of it.
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Early in the series, each game was hugely different from the predecessor. But after Ocarina of Time, each console game has been adhering to the same basic mechanics, and I'm assuming that Twilight Princess will do the same. That would make 4 games following the same model. While that is the norm for most game sequels, the Zelda series used to experience a huge Doctor-Who-like regeneration with every game.
I doubt that the new era that Miyamoto is talking about has anything to do with becoming darker or becoming an RPG, but that it means the end of the scheme that the series has followed since OoT. Transitioning to 3D was an expected step at that time, but I don't know what the next step could be. I'm guessing that it will be dependent on the features of the mysterious Revolution controller.
I'm really looking forward to Twilight Princess, and I love the current era of Zelda, but I'm also hoping that Miyamoto's comments mean a return to Zelda's tradition of constantly changing yet being consistently awesome.
That would rock!
3D Link in 2D prerendered world, with 3D monsters & effects.
Ever since Link to the Past I've wanted Ganon to die and stay dead. What was this stupidity of going even further back in time or forward and Ganon always gets resurrected? It's not like he was an especially charismatic villan. I want him to die so my victory will matter more.
Who considers Ocarina to be one of the worst games of all time?
Me. It ruined Zelda. The effect was twofold:
First, it gave Zelda this fancy 3D crap that wowed everyone for a minute or two. That part, I can forgive. I was wowed along with everyone else. That said, the controls sucked large portions of ass, and that's mostly why I hated the change. Console Controllers Aren't Made For 3D Games(tm).
Second, it brought n00bs into the fanbase. Not just regular newbs that can be taught to be decent people, but n00b fanboys that love their Playstations and don't subscribe to the One True Nintendo Way. Even that I could forgive if it wasn't for the other half of this n00b problem: they're usually ungrateful and arrogant, and outspokenly so. They refuse to play the older Zelda games because "they're old and crusty and who cares?" and they firmly and stubbornly believe that "3D is better than 2D because it has more D's!!111one!!!2twoone!" It's a childish and contemptible mindset that leaves anyone who enjoys the older games with the taste of vomit in their mouth. The types of n00bs I'm speaking of here are the ones that griped about Wind Waker's graphics and used non-words like "Celda" and didn't punctuate their "sentences" properly. I honestly hope Nintendo goes back to 2D Zeldas just to piss these assholes off and to chase them back to their stupid Playstations.
I'd love to be the first one to say: NO "D" FOR YOU!
The three 3D Zeldas have each been top-rated and top-selling games on their respective consoles.
While I've been a Zelda fan since TLoZ on the NES (I still have the shiny gold cartridge! Pretty...) I should point out that this is the same logic used to dismiss complaints about Microsoft software.
A link, for the curious...
http://www.animetric.com/bgames/water.html
If the next game will be the beginning of a new Zelda era, than wouldn't it make sense for it to be because of the new control mechanism that will be part of Revolution?
Think about it, of the non-handheld Zelda games, the last transition was from 2D to 3D and was marked with the series moving to the N64. This wasn't done out of malice, but it did represent a new era for the Zelda series; arguably one that was very beneficial.
The core of the franchise will probably be unchanged; Link will still battle Gannon over golden triangles while Zelda looks on from her cage, but the gameplay will change significantly.
I'm personally hoping that they keep the "sandbox" style intact but make it a bit less linear.
I also disliked Ocarina of Time. Mostly because it didn't really cater to gamers like me who don't like wasting time.
Running across an empty field is not fun. Trying to figure out where my next goal is is not fun. Games are not work.
I just went back to Mario 64 where, if I didn't like a mission I could just go try a different one. Plus, there were less endless fields to cross.
The problem is that such "re-imaginings" can end up losing more than they gain. The original was popular for a reason - there was a logic behind its bubbling to the top of the charts. The "re-imagining" often loses its successful features for new ones that may or may not fly - sort of a "feature russian roulette" - replacing tried-and-tested good gameplay with new, untested ideas that are often inferior.
Consider Doom's unpopular remake. The new gameplay is just dull and repetative. Compare v. Serious Sam and Painkiller, which applied classic Doom gameplay to modern technology.
I may not be who you directed this at, but I still haven't beaten OoT. I can't make it past the Fire Temple, and I was stuck inside Jabu-Jabu's Belly for weeks. The world was beautiful, but I think Nintendo really figured out 3-D LoZ with good controls in Wind Waker.
The challenge I find in Wind Waker is due to game design. The challenge I find in Ocarina of Time is due to the control scheme. It just feels clunky, and I can't convince Link to do what I want him to. I don't have this issue in WW.
It's good, but it's certainly not the be-all and end-all of third-person adventure games. Maybe I'm just nostaligic, but the best third-person adventure game award, I think, ought to go to Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past.
e2 | LJ
God, I hope not. Friends don't let friends succumb to 16 hour gaming sessions without food or water ... or showers for that matter.
the death of Tingle.
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I got so bored with OoT that I did in fact give up. Majora's mask was just so annoying I only played it for a bit. The cell shading in WW (Not that cell shading is bad, just this cell shading made me sick to my stomach, not that it was poor quality, I really got sick playing it) made me sick, so scratch that one. OoT felt way too much like Mario 64, the great faries annoyed me, and I hated the whole shike thing at the end. I wasn't aware they had made more 2d Zelda games. I was only referring to the 3d ones. Basically they took a great game, and a world with so much potential and sat on it, and made a game on par with Banjo and Kazooy.
Enter a young boy by the name of Greg Gannondorf.
You might be GANNON-BANNED (first warning).
It's the beginning of the Legend of Ganon.
Almost. Another source claims that Zelda and Link will become dancers along with Mario in Super Step Bros., the sequel to DDR Mario Mix. This game will continue the Legend of Max.
"Definitely"