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Dell Releases First Consumer Product with Mandriva
WindozeSux writes "Dell Laptops(Latitude 110L) are now shipping with Mandriva Linux pre-installed. Mandriva says this represents a milestone to make Linux more available to consumers. From the article:"This product shows the world that Mandriva is today ready for the consumer market. We've been developing products for the corporate and enthusiast markets for years. Addressing the needs of the consumer market is a different challenge, because it is all the more difficult, as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home", said François Bancilhon, Mandriva CEO"
First consumer angrily sends back 'discount' Dell computer for not having Windows.
Fly a plane over Sun with the banner "YEAH, WELL WE HAVE MANDRIVA!"
Somebody want to tell my parents this and, while you're at it, tell them I'm not available on loan.
I say bring them on Dell, HP. You might have found a way to make me (and many other geeks) customers again.
Open Source Sushi
Can the machines be purchased in the USA?
The Dell Latitude line is geared toward business users. The Inspiron line is for home users. According to Dell's Linux page:
Dell does not officially support running Linux on Dell laptops."
So where can I order one of these things?
then the average consumer... of course "line-ux?"
Slash-for-Thought
as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home.
Or you do have one at home, but he gets grumpy if you ask him questions without rtfm.
xao
http://TheHillforum.hopto.org
you don't have a system admin or professional technician
This, and the article says it's being sold direct to students. I went back to school for another degree last year and the specs for the required notebook said Windows XP Pro or 2000 ONLY. The networking people won't let you connect to the school LAN with anything else. I suspect other schools have similar policies. Linux preinstalled systems should be the high end models for hard core technical users, not the nearly bare bones Celeron student models, IMNSHO.
Whatever you think of Dell, this is good for Linux.
and did some nice AMD stuff with Linux preloaded on the server line I would be a happy bunny
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
Get to know Mandriva before flaming it ...
First, Mandriva is TOTALLY open source. In fact, of the major commercial distributions Mandriva was the first to do so. Go read section 4-6 of Mandrakesoft's 8 Golden Rules
Not only is it fully OSS, but they give you all the instructions and such to fork your own Mandriva based distro easily (look at the popular PCLinuxOS as an example) Google for "mandrivasoft wiki" and have ball forking your own.
Secondly, if you've actually engaged with the Mandriva community, you'll notice that it is comprised of both employees and non-employees. The non-employees deal with real packages and stuff, and not bull-shit non-important packages.
Sunny Dubey
This is how I would make a profit off of Linux, if I were of the mindset to do so.
Linux of any sort is pretty much free (as in GPL'd), so it's hard if not impossible for me to sell you the uncompiled version. This is a given.
But I can sell service instead. I could sell you the hard work I did to compile everything and make sure it works fine together. That saves a lot of people time, and in business time means money. To compile it for the 64bit systems, I could assert that it's twice as difficult, ergo twice as expensive.
But then that pricing model is endangered the moment someone hand compiles their own version of the source code, puts it out in the wild, and has it polished by a million other contributors into a fork distribution that can be passed around via bittorrent for free.
Countering that, I can imply my version is more stable than those "garage hack" distros, and the phb's and store managers might be dum^H^H^Hconvinced enough to believe me and purchase my boxed laminated product.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
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http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html
I don't see, why should it be called "a milestone". In my country (Czech Republic) almost all PC vendors let user choose whick OS he/she wants. Besides Windows and Linux they also provide FreeDOS. I think there is a law forbidding selling computer set without operating system, so this is a way to go for people who want to install they own system and dont't want to pay for Windows. I don't know what is usual in USA but I would expect the same. Can someone explain it to me, please?
Having seen dell in action "considering" AMD in hopes of squeezing more discounts out of Intel, and seeing as Microsoft has a new version of Windows coming along, my guess is that this is just posturing to squeeze better discounts out of Microsoft on Vista OEM pricing.
It's a nice thought, but probably just a ploy.
But not that big. Sure, you could get Dell's with dedhat before.
I may get one actually, since I need a good laptop with linux running on it. I've had a lot of luck buying a winblows machine and then rolling my linux install, but sometimes vendors play too shifty with components.
Which is why I'd stillbe concerned about this one. The vendor I've had the most issues with *shifty* components lately is dell.
And I like AMD/s.
-=fshalor
Because I'm a Mandriva.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
Actually, no, there is no goal in Linux that says that all providers have to provide their products for free. Perhaps you should retake GPL 101. Actually, since you are cheap, just skip the course (doesn't really exist btw) and read the GPL.
If this really was the goal of Linux, perhaps releasing it under a license that specifically allows you to charge money for the software wasn't such a good idea, no?
Oh, and just to let you know, Red Hat and Mandriva do in-fact provide full source code for every open source component in their products, as they are required to by copyright law (they cannot distribute others code unless adhering to the attached license).
It really disgusts me some people around here. Half of you that bitch about Red Hat are sitting there running kernels and other Open Source packages that contain code that Red Hat paid to have contributed to these projects so you could use them FOR FREE, yet you get in a huff when these companies try to make some money. Quit being so fucking selfish I say. Don't want to pay for something...great I say...Red Hat could care less. Let all of the companies and enterprises that do value Red Hat's value-add pay for their services. If I were you, I'd be happy Red Hat is doing this. It lets them continue to pay people to improve code you are using.
Oh, and one last thing. You can download Mandriva x86_64 edition for free.
PS I'm not saying you HAVE to pay for Linux....I am running a free distro myself, one that is based extremely heavily on Red Hat's products (CentOS). But to use their code and complain when they try to make money is really low.
``Addressing the needs of the consumer market is a different challenge, because it is all the more difficult, as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home''
With a good Linux distro, there's less of a need to. Less computer expertise is needed to keep the system free of malware, and if it works now, it will still work years down the road (barring hardware failures). Also, desktop distros can and do include lots of drivers for various pieces of hardware, so that you can just plug in your device and start using it. YMMV, but I've had more success with this on Linux than what I see in the Windows world.
Now for the question: how good is Mandriva Linux these days? My experience with Mandrake wasn't particularly good, and I'd hate to see Linux get more bad rap because Dell chose to ship with an inferior distro. I assume polish won't be a problem, but what about package management? Does dependency resolution work? Do all packages work? Is the collection of available packages large enough? What about the software that comes pre-installed? Does it cover most users' needs, or would most people have to install extra software first thing when they get the machine? To what extent are Linux skills transferable to and from other distros (proprietary configuration tools, heavily customized desktops, etc)?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
I work for a large multinational company. I am currently studying source control systems for an eventual move away from cvs.
Chances are it will come down to a choice between commercial and open source systems, and that the commercial system will win for exactly the reason you have stated.
When you think about it this is a good thing. The open source project could sell a premium package (or something), and actually make some money for a change.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Fallacious logic. If new people are never allowed to use things which they are new to, then no one is ever allowed to use anything that they're not currently using. You could never have a new Linux user, which means Linux could do nothing but die out as the population of Linux users eventually succumbs to mortality.
By your own logic, you should never go anywhere you don't currently go. Don't switch grocery stores, don't switch clubs... don't even switch TV channels because you'll just be a newbie to it, a realm in which you don't belong.
Maybe you should start your own business, and from the day you open hang a sign on the door that reads: "If you're not an existing customer, go away."
Normal people are always asking their geek friends and relatives which computer to buy. Geeks never want to tell them to get Linux, even if it will be better and easier, because even that lower "Total Cost of Ownership" will then partly be paid by the geek who recommended it. Unless they recommend Dell, HP or some other vendor with a helpline, which will field (at least much first-level) support requests. Of course, the normals will buy a Dell or HP anyway, with Windows, no matter what the geek recommends, and then ask the geek for Windows support. Which the geek will be even less interested in giving.
Now that we can recommend Dell or HP with Linux, we'll do it much more often. When they get the Windows machine and ask us for support, we'll be able to say "send it back and get the right one this time". That kind of "word of mouth" is the best advertising Dell and HP could ask for. Way more valuable than a primetime season of "Dudes".
--
make install -not war
That statement might be a bit of misinformation. You can say that notebooks out-sold desktops, yes... but how many people upgraded their notebooks last year? Now tell me how many people upgraded their desktops. The desktop isn't going anywhere, least of all is it giving ground to the cumbersome beasts we call "portable". People being more and more comfortable with upgrades is one of the bigger reasons why not as many new systems are sold outright.
The Chronic *WHAT* les of Narnia!
What is this obsession of the Slashdot community towards calling everything a degrading name. Examples: Deadhat Winblows M$ LinSux etc. Can't you people get out of your mom's basement and grow up? Try getting a job in IT and then explaining to your CIO why you shouldn't use deadhat or winblows and see how long it takes for them to laugh in your face. Sorry, just a small gripe of mine.
Yes, but does it run Li--Oh, wait...
Red Hat? You mean that company that provides you with glib? That company that maintains GCC? Or wait do you mean that money grabbing corporation that has devoted hordes of developers to everything from Apache and Gnome to integrating SELinux into the kernel. That price tag on cygwin is way too high for me. And Fedora or CentOS (which red hat engineers have helped work on), they are both above my budget. I hope Red Hat stops giving away their directory server or GFS too because noone would ever need those.
The truth is, Red Hat open sources everything they do, if you want the source to their enterprise line, go and download it or go to CentOS which already did the work for you. Red Hat is at the core of OSS and without them, we'd all be much further back then where we are now. The only thing Red Hat charges for is enterprise support so please don't go around spreading FUD. They are the biggest single contributor to the kernel and pay for some of the best kernel hackers alive. We may all have this dream of everything OSS and being free... the truth is that at scales this large it'd all fall to hell without serious money behind it. This is why we need big companies with billions of dollars like Red Hat, IBM and Sun to aid in OSS. Out of those companies though, Red Hat is the most critical because even though they aren't the largest, they have the most motivation to make linux successful. If linux fails, Sun and IBM shift to other markets, no big deal, but Red Hat's whole business is linux so they have every reason to ensure its success.
Regards,
Steve
MIT is heavy on the Linux usage, I hear. And here at Cornell, they've got no problems with non-Windows OSes like Linux or Mac. We even have a lab full of Linux computers.
I've got two of my own Linux machines on the network right now. In fact, one of them IS running Linux on a Celeron, the other on a Sempron.
I'm sure there are plenty of schools who are Linux- as well as Mac-friendly.
Because if you don't pay them..they don't have to give it to you. Nothing in any open source license _requires_ that anyone give you their work product for ZERO dollars. Do some do so for all or a subset of their products..yep. Are they required to do so? No.
This sounds excellent news. Yes it might be a ploy to give Dell more traction with Microsoft, but there again it might be sincere. It also goes to show that you don't have to be SuSE or Red Hat to score well, either. Mandriva has very firm markets in France and Brazil and in fact could make a very good living if it never went all that far outside them. This too shows that you don't have to take on the world to succeed in Linux, just do what you know as well as you can. By trying to span the world and appeal to everyone, SuSE and Red Hat might end up by appealing to no one.
Las qué passoun
tournoun pas maï
Okay, I took the bait. Nasty hook marks in my mouth now.
If they're serious about this, how come when doing a search for linux in their "search all dell" option on their home page, I get no results around this new offering? If they were really proud of this and really intended to sell it it'd be nice if they made a bit more noise about it. This feels like PR.
I've been using the OpenOffice.org 2.0 beta for a while, and it's gotten a lot better at opening MS Office files. If you install the MS fonts, it's hard to even see a difference in most files. I regularly use it on MS Office files people send me, and it hasn't failed yet. The beta is just about perfect. But there are some problems still, admittedly.
.odt documents to .rtf usually works, but there are some distinct formatting problems that have given me grief. I regularly generate files in manuscript format (in other words, double spaced, 1-inch margins, Courier-style monospace font, with headers in a "Author / Title / Page" format). If the document includes a single-spaced introduction at the top of the first page, then converting it to .rtf seems to drop all other text.
.doc format works fine.
Converting
That's a serious bug. Of course, converting to MS
I don't mean this to troll, but why does Linux have to dethrone desktop Windows to be considered successful as an operating system? Why can't it just live happily as a rock-solid server OS with a desktop component that some advanced users use?
The ______ Agenda
Saw this in my live bookmarks with the "driva" of mandriva cut off. First thought was they were taking a new (and expensive!) approach to tech support. Needless to say I was sorely disappointed.
I will be impressed when gnu/linux comes preinstalled on computers in the US.
But you can get Mandriva free, though. I used it for quite a while and it's still quite good that way. They do have an along-side free distro.
Insert Clever Sig Here.
I would agree. Upgrading desktops is now mainstream, blue collar. I see it roughly analogous to earlier hotrodding by young dudes. You go in whitebox shops, mobos and drives, etc on the shelves. Empty fancy cases for sale, etc. It has become quite commonplace for people to be doing this in joe and josephine bubba land, and that's because it has gotten loads easier to do. Blue collar guys have no problems with tools in their hands, none whatsoever. There's little reason to drop several hundred on a new machine when one hundred fifty worth of mobo and chip and some new RAM does the trick more than adequately.
Does anyone have a link to a page that actually displays this product. I don't know but ususally they announce things like this then hide them like its a treasure hunt. It took me a while to find the servers with linux pre-installed.
As a long time Mandrake user *and* a fulltime sys admin I'd say for users-space Mandrake's offering is one of the best. But I'd also suggest that thats no-where near where it needs to be if they are planning Windows/Mac area market penetration.
:)
Its hardware detection has been some of the best for some time now, driver support, clean interface, all good things. Their configuration utilities knock Yast and FC.X off the butts, but they are a LONG way from providing either complete or reliable management solutions. Their package management solution is RPM based, but it excels well beyond YUM and its probably fair to say its on par with Debian's apt-get system, but you also have rpmdrake which wraps a comfy clear, easy-to-use GUI around it.
As far as commercial distros its the bee's-knees (although I haven't installed that free Linspire disk yet) and has the added bonus of being one of the few commercial companies going after the user desktop that still shows a commitment to the GPL.
That said, development hasn't shown any remarkable leaps in usability. Its a Linux distro and for the most part its about as good as any other favorite might be. It requires a hobbiest or enthusiast to use still, unless they've got something big they've been keeping under wraps, but 2005 (aka Mandriva) isn't remarkably better or worse then previous releases and they, along with most every other distro seem to be sticking pretty closely to the status quo, which isn't as innovative as I expect would be required to penetrate that particular consumer space, but I'm a sys admin, what do I know.
Quack, quack.
What are you talking about? Granted I'm running Mandrake 10 and not the absolute latest Mandriva, but I find it hard to believe that they spontaneously dropped support for something they've had since the earliest version I used, 7.something.
Nope, just checked, they haven't. It looks like 2006 beta 1 will use gcc4.
By George, you've called it spot on.
I've always been alarmed and disturbed at the mad rush to make Linux into a Windows look-a-like system.
I'm sorry but I didn't leave Windows to switch over to Windows. I left Windows because I despise it deeply and want nothing at all to do with it.
I could give a damn about drawing the Windows people over. I don't want the Windows problems that are sure to follow when Linux becomes so much like Windows that you can't tell one from the other.
And when all the deviant, malicious little script kiddies decide to jump on the band wagon, oh boy.
I really, really enjoy the isolation and separation from the M$ world and the M$ problems. Why people are so gung-ho to do so is beyond me.
Run Windows or run Linux. But FFS, leave Linux alone to be Linux.
This article reports on a godsend to the Slashd^H^H^H^H^H^HLinux community and only ~230 comments? Even the static-man article that had more holes than swiss cheese got more than that.
Are all of the Linux fanatics off buying these laptops, or what?