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Dell Releases First Consumer Product with Mandriva
WindozeSux writes "Dell Laptops(Latitude 110L) are now shipping with Mandriva Linux pre-installed. Mandriva says this represents a milestone to make Linux more available to consumers. From the article:"This product shows the world that Mandriva is today ready for the consumer market. We've been developing products for the corporate and enthusiast markets for years. Addressing the needs of the consumer market is a different challenge, because it is all the more difficult, as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home", said François Bancilhon, Mandriva CEO"
First consumer angrily sends back 'discount' Dell computer for not having Windows.
Fly a plane over Sun with the banner "YEAH, WELL WE HAVE MANDRIVA!"
I am!
But we'll see how long it lasts.
Ignore Alien Orders
Somebody want to tell my parents this and, while you're at it, tell them I'm not available on loan.
Changing a source's name in a citation unless explicitly stated is very shoddy journalism and is generally reserved for those who would come under threat from the quote in question.
If someone wants to go by a daft name then fair enough, it's not the editors' job to protect submitters from chosen embarassment.
I say bring them on Dell, HP. You might have found a way to make me (and many other geeks) customers again.
Open Source Sushi
Can the machines be purchased in the USA?
The Dell Latitude line is geared toward business users. The Inspiron line is for home users. According to Dell's Linux page:
Dell does not officially support running Linux on Dell laptops."
So where can I order one of these things?
then the average consumer... of course "line-ux?"
Slash-for-Thought
as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home.
Or you do have one at home, but he gets grumpy if you ask him questions without rtfm.
xao
http://TheHillforum.hopto.org
you don't have a system admin or professional technician
This, and the article says it's being sold direct to students. I went back to school for another degree last year and the specs for the required notebook said Windows XP Pro or 2000 ONLY. The networking people won't let you connect to the school LAN with anything else. I suspect other schools have similar policies. Linux preinstalled systems should be the high end models for hard core technical users, not the nearly bare bones Celeron student models, IMNSHO.
Whatever you think of Dell, this is good for Linux.
"apparent cost" my friend. A PHB is going to look at Linux that is free and say "well, you get what you pay for" and think Linux is crap. If you say it costs about as much as "winders" and can do more then he can go to his higher up and say "well Bob, though I may have never heard of this 'line-ux' thing other than for big servers and nerdy guys with pocket protectors, it may seem like a good idea"
So thats why it costs money
--sig fault--
Last year, notebooks for the first time out-sold desktops. So this is a very timely announcement. The momentum of notebook sales could carry over to desktop Linux.
and did some nice AMD stuff with Linux preloaded on the server line I would be a happy bunny
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
everyone was a n00b once, even you. more os choices out there means a better product.
always mosh clockwise
As long as the code remains free the ideal remains. They can charge whatever they want for the binary package, you always got the freedom of the LFS distro if you don't want to pay them for their hardwork.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Get to know Mandriva before flaming it ...
First, Mandriva is TOTALLY open source. In fact, of the major commercial distributions Mandriva was the first to do so. Go read section 4-6 of Mandrakesoft's 8 Golden Rules
Not only is it fully OSS, but they give you all the instructions and such to fork your own Mandriva based distro easily (look at the popular PCLinuxOS as an example) Google for "mandrivasoft wiki" and have ball forking your own.
Secondly, if you've actually engaged with the Mandriva community, you'll notice that it is comprised of both employees and non-employees. The non-employees deal with real packages and stuff, and not bull-shit non-important packages.
Sunny Dubey
This is how I would make a profit off of Linux, if I were of the mindset to do so.
Linux of any sort is pretty much free (as in GPL'd), so it's hard if not impossible for me to sell you the uncompiled version. This is a given.
But I can sell service instead. I could sell you the hard work I did to compile everything and make sure it works fine together. That saves a lot of people time, and in business time means money. To compile it for the 64bit systems, I could assert that it's twice as difficult, ergo twice as expensive.
But then that pricing model is endangered the moment someone hand compiles their own version of the source code, puts it out in the wild, and has it polished by a million other contributors into a fork distribution that can be passed around via bittorrent for free.
Countering that, I can imply my version is more stable than those "garage hack" distros, and the phb's and store managers might be dum^H^H^Hconvinced enough to believe me and purchase my boxed laminated product.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
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http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html
I don't see, why should it be called "a milestone". In my country (Czech Republic) almost all PC vendors let user choose whick OS he/she wants. Besides Windows and Linux they also provide FreeDOS. I think there is a law forbidding selling computer set without operating system, so this is a way to go for people who want to install they own system and dont't want to pay for Windows. I don't know what is usual in USA but I would expect the same. Can someone explain it to me, please?
Having seen dell in action "considering" AMD in hopes of squeezing more discounts out of Intel, and seeing as Microsoft has a new version of Windows coming along, my guess is that this is just posturing to squeeze better discounts out of Microsoft on Vista OEM pricing.
It's a nice thought, but probably just a ploy.
But not that big. Sure, you could get Dell's with dedhat before.
I may get one actually, since I need a good laptop with linux running on it. I've had a lot of luck buying a winblows machine and then rolling my linux install, but sometimes vendors play too shifty with components.
Which is why I'd stillbe concerned about this one. The vendor I've had the most issues with *shifty* components lately is dell.
And I like AMD/s.
-=fshalor
Because I'm a Mandriva.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
Actually, no, there is no goal in Linux that says that all providers have to provide their products for free. Perhaps you should retake GPL 101. Actually, since you are cheap, just skip the course (doesn't really exist btw) and read the GPL.
If this really was the goal of Linux, perhaps releasing it under a license that specifically allows you to charge money for the software wasn't such a good idea, no?
Oh, and just to let you know, Red Hat and Mandriva do in-fact provide full source code for every open source component in their products, as they are required to by copyright law (they cannot distribute others code unless adhering to the attached license).
It really disgusts me some people around here. Half of you that bitch about Red Hat are sitting there running kernels and other Open Source packages that contain code that Red Hat paid to have contributed to these projects so you could use them FOR FREE, yet you get in a huff when these companies try to make some money. Quit being so fucking selfish I say. Don't want to pay for something...great I say...Red Hat could care less. Let all of the companies and enterprises that do value Red Hat's value-add pay for their services. If I were you, I'd be happy Red Hat is doing this. It lets them continue to pay people to improve code you are using.
Oh, and one last thing. You can download Mandriva x86_64 edition for free.
PS I'm not saying you HAVE to pay for Linux....I am running a free distro myself, one that is based extremely heavily on Red Hat's products (CentOS). But to use their code and complain when they try to make money is really low.
``Addressing the needs of the consumer market is a different challenge, because it is all the more difficult, as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home''
With a good Linux distro, there's less of a need to. Less computer expertise is needed to keep the system free of malware, and if it works now, it will still work years down the road (barring hardware failures). Also, desktop distros can and do include lots of drivers for various pieces of hardware, so that you can just plug in your device and start using it. YMMV, but I've had more success with this on Linux than what I see in the Windows world.
Now for the question: how good is Mandriva Linux these days? My experience with Mandrake wasn't particularly good, and I'd hate to see Linux get more bad rap because Dell chose to ship with an inferior distro. I assume polish won't be a problem, but what about package management? Does dependency resolution work? Do all packages work? Is the collection of available packages large enough? What about the software that comes pre-installed? Does it cover most users' needs, or would most people have to install extra software first thing when they get the machine? To what extent are Linux skills transferable to and from other distros (proprietary configuration tools, heavily customized desktops, etc)?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
I work for a large multinational company. I am currently studying source control systems for an eventual move away from cvs.
Chances are it will come down to a choice between commercial and open source systems, and that the commercial system will win for exactly the reason you have stated.
When you think about it this is a good thing. The open source project could sell a premium package (or something), and actually make some money for a change.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Fallacious logic. If new people are never allowed to use things which they are new to, then no one is ever allowed to use anything that they're not currently using. You could never have a new Linux user, which means Linux could do nothing but die out as the population of Linux users eventually succumbs to mortality.
By your own logic, you should never go anywhere you don't currently go. Don't switch grocery stores, don't switch clubs... don't even switch TV channels because you'll just be a newbie to it, a realm in which you don't belong.
Maybe you should start your own business, and from the day you open hang a sign on the door that reads: "If you're not an existing customer, go away."
Mandriva says this represents a milestone to make Linux more available to consumers.
Ummm, I seem to recall that Redhat used to be available pre-loaded on Dell laptops. Lets see how long it lasts this time.
Normal people are always asking their geek friends and relatives which computer to buy. Geeks never want to tell them to get Linux, even if it will be better and easier, because even that lower "Total Cost of Ownership" will then partly be paid by the geek who recommended it. Unless they recommend Dell, HP or some other vendor with a helpline, which will field (at least much first-level) support requests. Of course, the normals will buy a Dell or HP anyway, with Windows, no matter what the geek recommends, and then ask the geek for Windows support. Which the geek will be even less interested in giving.
Now that we can recommend Dell or HP with Linux, we'll do it much more often. When they get the Windows machine and ask us for support, we'll be able to say "send it back and get the right one this time". That kind of "word of mouth" is the best advertising Dell and HP could ask for. Way more valuable than a primetime season of "Dudes".
--
make install -not war
What is this obsession of the Slashdot community towards calling everything a degrading name. Examples: Deadhat Winblows M$ LinSux etc. Can't you people get out of your mom's basement and grow up? Try getting a job in IT and then explaining to your CIO why you shouldn't use deadhat or winblows and see how long it takes for them to laugh in your face. Sorry, just a small gripe of mine.
never thought of it in that perspective, but yeah, both of you are right :D
thanks for pointing that out, i get a bit disgruntled every time i see some linux distro id really like to try out, but theres a $150 price tag and no free downloadable edition.
"Potpourii doesn't taste as good as it smells." - Dark_Link2135
What, you don't think there are development costs? It's not as though these distros aren't writing code of their own. Yes, I know, some distros do some great work with only volunteers, but development of these free distros are helped by the developers that are paid by others.
Yes, but does it run Li--Oh, wait...
ok, if its totally open source, why can't i download an x86-64 edition of it?
:D
Commercial Products: The Mandriva Linux Distributions that are not available for free download and which are sold in retail, e-commerce, and directly by Mandriva its partners and distributors. These include (but are not restricted to) Discovery, Powerpack, Powerpack+, Corporate Server, Move, Multi Network Firewall, Mandrivaclustering, Mandriva Linux for PPC,
and Mandrivalinux for AMD64. and before you jump to any conclusions, im not bashing either you or mandriva, im just wondering here. is there still a way to get the x86-64 edition free? i used mandrake 10.0, the 64 bit edition of it for awhile, and i really liked it, but i didnt have time to figure out how to get all my games to work, and id really rather do all or nothing, not a dual boot. now i have time to do that, so im looking more into switching over. sorry for an uninformed post from a linux noob
"Potpourii doesn't taste as good as it smells." - Dark_Link2135
No, but if you say it backwards, you get Avirdnam, which sounds like "A weird name". Which is what Mandriva is. (I actually created an IRC channel called #a_weird_name because of that)
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Red Hat? You mean that company that provides you with glib? That company that maintains GCC? Or wait do you mean that money grabbing corporation that has devoted hordes of developers to everything from Apache and Gnome to integrating SELinux into the kernel. That price tag on cygwin is way too high for me. And Fedora or CentOS (which red hat engineers have helped work on), they are both above my budget. I hope Red Hat stops giving away their directory server or GFS too because noone would ever need those.
The truth is, Red Hat open sources everything they do, if you want the source to their enterprise line, go and download it or go to CentOS which already did the work for you. Red Hat is at the core of OSS and without them, we'd all be much further back then where we are now. The only thing Red Hat charges for is enterprise support so please don't go around spreading FUD. They are the biggest single contributor to the kernel and pay for some of the best kernel hackers alive. We may all have this dream of everything OSS and being free... the truth is that at scales this large it'd all fall to hell without serious money behind it. This is why we need big companies with billions of dollars like Red Hat, IBM and Sun to aid in OSS. Out of those companies though, Red Hat is the most critical because even though they aren't the largest, they have the most motivation to make linux successful. If linux fails, Sun and IBM shift to other markets, no big deal, but Red Hat's whole business is linux so they have every reason to ensure its success.
Regards,
Steve
MIT is heavy on the Linux usage, I hear. And here at Cornell, they've got no problems with non-Windows OSes like Linux or Mac. We even have a lab full of Linux computers.
I've got two of my own Linux machines on the network right now. In fact, one of them IS running Linux on a Celeron, the other on a Sempron.
I'm sure there are plenty of schools who are Linux- as well as Mac-friendly.
I RTFA, but still have questions...
Many posters assume that Dell has done some optimization / tuning / development. But the article says bubkis about that. Did Dell do any work so that things are guaranteed to run smoothly? E.g., is the WiFi support 802.11g, or is it just some old out-of-date 802.11b chipset? Does the power management, in particular sleep / standby mode, consistently work even with X11?
Seriously, if any of you know the answers (and aren't just presupposing one way or the other) let us know!
#DeleteChrome
dude, seriously, chill out.
to the common user, the point of switching over to linux is
A) (and most importantly) its FREE B) it actually works
im not looking from a corporation mindset. im looking from a "me" mindset. which makes perfect sense considering its going to be "me" using the product.
if you have a high paying job, then fine, money isn't an object for you. but for the rest of us "little" people out here, its nice to be able to cut corners and lower costs.
i'm not saying they don't have a right to make money, yes, i think they should. i'm not complaining that they are making money, thats good.
i was complaining, because as far as I can see, there isn't any way to obtain a free edition of the x86-64 bit edition.
Commercial Products: The Mandriva Linux Distributions that are not available for free download and which are sold in retail, e-commerce, and directly by Mandriva its partners and distributors. These include (but are not restricted to) Discovery, Powerpack, Powerpack+, Corporate Server, Move, Multi Network Firewall, Mandrivaclustering, Mandriva Linux for PPC, and Mandrivalinux for AMD64. if there is a
legal way to get it, i'd sure like to know about it.
"Potpourii doesn't taste as good as it smells." - Dark_Link2135
Because if you don't pay them..they don't have to give it to you. Nothing in any open source license _requires_ that anyone give you their work product for ZERO dollars. Do some do so for all or a subset of their products..yep. Are they required to do so? No.
i guess i just have a bad understanding of how those companies work - id always thought that it was basically the open source community that worked on the kernel/distros.
"Potpourii doesn't taste as good as it smells." - Dark_Link2135
This sounds excellent news. Yes it might be a ploy to give Dell more traction with Microsoft, but there again it might be sincere. It also goes to show that you don't have to be SuSE or Red Hat to score well, either. Mandriva has very firm markets in France and Brazil and in fact could make a very good living if it never went all that far outside them. This too shows that you don't have to take on the world to succeed in Linux, just do what you know as well as you can. By trying to span the world and appeal to everyone, SuSE and Red Hat might end up by appealing to no one.
Las qué passoun
tournoun pas maï
I run SLAX livecd on an old Toshiba Laptop 4015CDS, and store the configuration on the hard drive, also partitioned to allow a nice swap area.
Originally, the machine came with Win98. SLAX is free, but not free of problems, perhaps it is not suited to ordinary users. It does look good when it is booted up, I have Firefox and Opera, use kppp for the dial up. Rather complicated to get a "slaxconf.mo" with all that. No, the sound does not work on this box for SLAX. Unfortunately, one has to pay something for a good OS that mostly works. Too bad Windows is getting so bloated. I'm trying to cut my knoppix remaster down, while offering more of what I can use in daily work. (See screenshots) Can look at it like this: You get Windows for free, with the computer. It's everybody else that is getting on the charge-for-os bandwagon. I'm having to. My day job paycheck does not buy much anymore. I'm just trying to pay the bills doing something that I like to do.
Rapidweather's Linux Screenshots.
The GPL is about free of proprietary components, it has nothing to do with cost... why can't you people understand this? You try making money off of software that costs $0 and then tell Red Hat they're evil.
Insert Clever Sig Here.
Did you bother to read the GNU papers? Not Free as in "Free Beer" but Free as in "Freedom".
There's nothing wrong about charging for access to de readymade software as long as you can do what you want - read: access source code without restriction.
maybe i just don't understand the words open source very well, do they not mean exactly what they say or something? i thought the theory behind open source software was that it was open source.
"Potpourii doesn't taste as good as it smells." - Dark_Link2135
RedHat doesn't maintain GCC
Okay, I took the bait. Nasty hook marks in my mouth now.
If they're serious about this, how come when doing a search for linux in their "search all dell" option on their home page, I get no results around this new offering? If they were really proud of this and really intended to sell it it'd be nice if they made a bit more noise about it. This feels like PR.
Open Source, in terms of GPL, means that the source is available either by free of charge download of via CD/DVD at cost price. The seller can sell the binaries for as much as they like, but regardless of the price, the source will be available as mentioned previously.
Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
I've been using the OpenOffice.org 2.0 beta for a while, and it's gotten a lot better at opening MS Office files. If you install the MS fonts, it's hard to even see a difference in most files. I regularly use it on MS Office files people send me, and it hasn't failed yet. The beta is just about perfect. But there are some problems still, admittedly.
.odt documents to .rtf usually works, but there are some distinct formatting problems that have given me grief. I regularly generate files in manuscript format (in other words, double spaced, 1-inch margins, Courier-style monospace font, with headers in a "Author / Title / Page" format). If the document includes a single-spaced introduction at the top of the first page, then converting it to .rtf seems to drop all other text.
.doc format works fine.
Converting
That's a serious bug. Of course, converting to MS
Commercial Products: The Mandriva Linux Distributions that are not available for free download and which are sold in retail, e-commerce, and directly by Mandriva its partners and distributors. These include (but are not restricted to) Discovery, Powerpack, Powerpack+, Corporate Server, Move, Multi Network Firewall, Mandrivaclustering, Mandriva Linux for PPC,
and Mandrivalinux for AMD64. and before you jump to any conclusions, im not bashing either you or mandriva, im just wondering here. is there still a way to get the x86-64 edition free? i used mandrake 10.0, the 64 bit edition of it for awhile, and i really liked it, but i didnt have time to figure out how to get all my games to work, and id really rather do all or nothing, not a dual boot. now i have time to do that, so im looking more into switching over. sorry for an uninformed post from a linux noob
You need to re-read the GPL.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
you don't get windows for free at all. if you a buy a computer with windows preinstalled, its figured in with the price.
"Potpourii doesn't taste as good as it smells." - Dark_Link2135
I don't mean this to troll, but why does Linux have to dethrone desktop Windows to be considered successful as an operating system? Why can't it just live happily as a rock-solid server OS with a desktop component that some advanced users use?
The ______ Agenda
ok, sorry for being a complete idiot, but what it sounds like you are saying is this:
so basically they are saying that if somebody buys a $150 package of their software, they have the complete freedom to distribute it to anyone they want at will? doesn't that completely kill their money-making opportunities? i'm not quite sure i'm understanding this - in fact, lol, i know im not getting this.
"Potpourii doesn't taste as good as it smells." - Dark_Link2135
Saw this in my live bookmarks with the "driva" of mandriva cut off. First thought was they were taking a new (and expensive!) approach to tech support. Needless to say I was sorely disappointed.
Assuming the distro is released under GPL, anybody who has paid for a particular release can then distribute it for free to everyone else.
ok, got it now, thanks :D
so how would i go about compiling the source for x86-64? where do i even GET the source - i was looking around on mandrivas site for a bit, but all i found were some pre-compiled binaries free for download.
"Potpourii doesn't taste as good as it smells." - Dark_Link2135
I will be impressed when gnu/linux comes preinstalled on computers in the US.
okay, i think i understand it now, but doesn't that kill their profit? also, is the Mandriva Limited Edition just the OS without all the commercial packages?
"Potpourii doesn't taste as good as it smells." - Dark_Link2135
This isn't "your" model: this is precisely what Red Hat (RIP) and SuSe have been doing for years for the desktop market.
A blog like any other.
I don't have a use for 64 bit yet, so I haven't tried this link; but have you tried here? http://www1.mandrivalinux.com/en/ftp.php3#iso2005
yeah, thats what I was looking at before. i ended up downloading the cd edition since i couldnt find a dvd edition anywhere
"Potpourii doesn't taste as good as it smells." - Dark_Link2135
Linux has traditionally been difficult on laptops - especially the power management aspects. If a vendor such as Dell or HP makes an effort, they can most certainly overcome the difficulties in heat and power management, sleep and hiberate. 2.6 kernels all have that ability now, but hardware compatibility and lack of available drivers are always result in a sub-optimal laptop. Linux laptops make a lot of sense from a security standpoint. Every Windows laptop in at a starbucks is essentially vulnerable to worms, spyware and hackers. I use a web-based database called Lightspoke - http://www.lightspoke.com/ and while part of the benefits of a web-based database is accessibility anywhere, I find myself paranoid about security when I use it at a coffee shop.
Lightspoke Web Based Database
Companies like Novell, Mandriva, and Redhat actually employ programmers who are paid to improve these distributions. And part of what I was saying was that, yes, the distros that do it all for free are still benefitting from the work put in by these paid programmers.
I would agree. Upgrading desktops is now mainstream, blue collar. I see it roughly analogous to earlier hotrodding by young dudes. You go in whitebox shops, mobos and drives, etc on the shelves. Empty fancy cases for sale, etc. It has become quite commonplace for people to be doing this in joe and josephine bubba land, and that's because it has gotten loads easier to do. Blue collar guys have no problems with tools in their hands, none whatsoever. There's little reason to drop several hundred on a new machine when one hundred fifty worth of mobo and chip and some new RAM does the trick more than adequately.
dell makes nice TFT screens but horribly low quality notebooks what i want to see is the Acer Ferrari 4005 with preinstalled linux (or at least without windows with it) - THIS would be really cool!
let's call the whole thing off
Does anyone have a link to a page that actually displays this product. I don't know but ususally they announce things like this then hide them like its a treasure hunt. It took me a while to find the servers with linux pre-installed.
so basically they are saying that if somebody buys a $150 package of their software, they have the complete freedom to distribute it to anyone they want at will? doesn't that completely kill their money-making opportunities?
Exactly. That's why no OSS-related company will get Big.
i'm not quite sure i'm understanding this - in fact, lol, i know im not getting this.
Mandrake began as Desktop RedHat 6.? with better KDE support.
The people at RH probably grumbled a tad, but they knew/know what the GPL means.
If someone who has an unnatural love for Mandriva wants to make, for example, a server oriented branch, they are more than welcome.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
The world came to an end! Why didn't somebody wake me? And send Satan a snow-shovel!
Mandrake 10 on my computers refused to work with their HP printer-scanner. There was a driver, it just didn't work.
He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
Dell ships laptops with Linux
Dell stops shipping laptops with Linux
Dell starts shipping with Linux again... and it's a "milestone"
I think much of the problem with Mandriva stems from complete lack of programming support; don't even think of asking Mandriva to do something productive with a source tarball! C libraries, what are those? Programming languages? We grow our binaries on trees!
I've said this about distros like Mandriva and Ubuntu since forever: I refer to them collectively not as Linux, but as "I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-Windows!(TM)" So here we are, we broke our necks to be more like Windows than Windows is in order to draw market share from Windows, and now what? We have a couple of sub-standard distros on our hands, Windows users can look at the shoddiest of our work and turn their nose up at it and go back to Windows, and we give it away for free, so we would have gained little even if we'd won.
Experience has taught me that this will decrease the mob frenzy not a tad.
As a long time Mandrake user *and* a fulltime sys admin I'd say for users-space Mandrake's offering is one of the best. But I'd also suggest that thats no-where near where it needs to be if they are planning Windows/Mac area market penetration.
:)
Its hardware detection has been some of the best for some time now, driver support, clean interface, all good things. Their configuration utilities knock Yast and FC.X off the butts, but they are a LONG way from providing either complete or reliable management solutions. Their package management solution is RPM based, but it excels well beyond YUM and its probably fair to say its on par with Debian's apt-get system, but you also have rpmdrake which wraps a comfy clear, easy-to-use GUI around it.
As far as commercial distros its the bee's-knees (although I haven't installed that free Linspire disk yet) and has the added bonus of being one of the few commercial companies going after the user desktop that still shows a commitment to the GPL.
That said, development hasn't shown any remarkable leaps in usability. Its a Linux distro and for the most part its about as good as any other favorite might be. It requires a hobbiest or enthusiast to use still, unless they've got something big they've been keeping under wraps, but 2005 (aka Mandriva) isn't remarkably better or worse then previous releases and they, along with most every other distro seem to be sticking pretty closely to the status quo, which isn't as innovative as I expect would be required to penetrate that particular consumer space, but I'm a sys admin, what do I know.
Quack, quack.
What are you talking about? Granted I'm running Mandrake 10 and not the absolute latest Mandriva, but I find it hard to believe that they spontaneously dropped support for something they've had since the earliest version I used, 7.something.
Nope, just checked, they haven't. It looks like 2006 beta 1 will use gcc4.
I'm guessing you're using Active Directory shares, which you *could* support using under Linux, but I haven't seen any distro make it reasonable for a regular person (Novell/Suse ENT make some strides in that direction but more from the server stand-point...still interesting stuff).
:)
My guess is you're Linux laptop would simple be a support night-mare for them, so why would they "allow" it.
Quack, quack.
By George, you've called it spot on.
I've always been alarmed and disturbed at the mad rush to make Linux into a Windows look-a-like system.
I'm sorry but I didn't leave Windows to switch over to Windows. I left Windows because I despise it deeply and want nothing at all to do with it.
I could give a damn about drawing the Windows people over. I don't want the Windows problems that are sure to follow when Linux becomes so much like Windows that you can't tell one from the other.
And when all the deviant, malicious little script kiddies decide to jump on the band wagon, oh boy.
I really, really enjoy the isolation and separation from the M$ world and the M$ problems. Why people are so gung-ho to do so is beyond me.
Run Windows or run Linux. But FFS, leave Linux alone to be Linux.
...What irritates *me* about Mandriva is the complete lack of compiler/C library support. Don't even think of getting a source tarball and doing anything meaningful with it if you're running Mandriva...
I've had no problems compiling QEMU, though I may have explicitly told Mandriva to install the proper packages. It's like anything else though, when you think about it. How can the OS support something (C libraries, devices) if the appropriate software isn't installed?
Hope be with ye,
Cyan
This will only be true if they free the drivers via gpl, etc. They can, if they are silly, release binary junk and then you are half way back to the windoze world where you need floppies and CDs that only work on one computer with a one particular distribution. Without source code, other distributions can't roll it into their kernels.
In the end, it does not matter. Six months or a year down the road the free community will have drivers that are better than what a single company can provide now.
It would be great if Dell decided that free software was the future and started requiring free drivers from their sub contractors. This would save everyone a lot of time and take a lot of the guesswork out of buying a new computer. As things stand, the safest way to buy a new computer is to try out Knoppix or Mepis on it. Binary drivers can help fill in the time between when you buy the computer and when you can really install your choice of distribution. That's second best and I don't recommend it.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Since going to www.mandrivalinux.com and clicking download is apparently too difficult, I'll provide a link :)
n ux/official/iso/10.2/x86_64/
http://www1.mandrivalinux.com/en/ftp.php3
http://gulus.usherbrooke.ca/pub/distro/Mandrakeli
Simply use urpmi to download any packages missing since it is only one CD. You are actually using less bandwidth that way, since you are only downloading the packages you need.
"The GPL says that if they distribute the binaries to you (ie.. you buy Mandriva), then they have to also make the source available to you."
And in fact, if they distribute just binaries, they have to make the source available to any third parties.
This article reports on a godsend to the Slashd^H^H^H^H^H^HLinux community and only ~230 comments? Even the static-man article that had more holes than swiss cheese got more than that.
Are all of the Linux fanatics off buying these laptops, or what?
Whenever asked to recommend a laptop, I recommend an Apple iBook (or Powerbook if they want something costly and big-screen) -- whether they accept the suggestion or not, my future support load is MUCH lower than if I recommended either Windows or Linux. And I can back it up... e.g. by pointing out that the geeks at Google mostly use Apple _laptops_, even though their desktops are mostly Linux and their servers invariably so (actually, I hear Rob Pike prefers a Mac even as his desktop... but, for desktops, I still prefer to recommend Linux, personally).
Alex
Alex
My coworker and I debate between the different distros. He loves and swears by Mandriva and I prefer a couple others (Fedora, Ubuntu, SuSE). Now I'm gonna have to go to work Monday and hear how Mandriva must be better since Dell is using it!
Right, I'll have an Athlon64 3500+ Mandriva box, thanks. ...
...
uh, heh heh sorry I thought I'd heard you say you didn't do AMD.
(walks to door, crosses road)
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
"First, Mandriva is TOTALLY open source."
So why do you have to agree to an End User License Agreement before being allowed to install it?
That's exactly the business model that redhat and SuSE (now novell) use. The bit you're wrong about is that fork distributions end up killing the original shrinkwrap.
Yes, your time in putting together the good distro has value to people who don't want to spend that time - and so does support. As the original vendor, you're in a much better position to offer patches, upgrades and aftersales support. Take Redhat enterprise linux for example; there are a couple of rebranded versions like centOS, but people still buy RHEL because they like the idea of guaranteed support and patches. Hell, redhat even provide their own community-supported desktop OS, fedora.
Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
If I had one pc I would require a dual boot, XP and linux, so what I would be happy with from a vendor is linux/ubuntu compatible hardware, or even install, AND a Windows install on a different partition.
My father is getting a laptop for Christmas, so having a spare partition and linux friendly hardware is high on my wish list for his machine, just incase I inherit it or he wants to dabble in linux (and/or) the viruses get too much for him.
Any recomendations of UK linux compatible laptop vendors? (I live in the south of Ireland and a minor dongle is required for the telephone between UK plug and south of Ireland plug).
Be Free: Free Software Tuition
"How about when you have to give a presentation and the virus infested OS does porn pop-ups over your slideshow? "
The organisation that employs me uses Windows for almost all of its desktop machines. They are all connected to the internet. I would say on an average day I see or use at least 5 different PCs. Never, in 7 years, have I seen a porn pop-up. Never.
Developers do not use servers to program on, linux might mainly be developed for servers, but not on servers. Also, new users do not try Linux on servers the first time around.
And why would you not want to replace windows and os-x with Linux? I Like it on my desktop. Linux and more users equals more developers equals better OS for me.
A computer is a tool, but I am not. I use Linux
What I'm talking about is unzip/untar tarball, cd directory, read README & INSTALL, type ./configure, make, make install, get errors due to failed dependencies: library missing, header file not found, thisfunction.so MIA. I've gotten this reaction from Mandrivites before. Don't google-eye at me in shock and act like you've never heard of a failed compile before.
"Download the proper packages" and I grow weary of repeating over and over: not EVERY computer in the world is online. Some of us have multiple machines in the household. Have you ever tried running a machine with an apt-get-type system that's not online? It's such a hassle that for all intents and purposes it's impossible. If you've never done this, take somebody's word for it. There's a reason I burn three disks...I try to get as much operating system on there as I can.
Anyway, I'm not knocking Mandriva at all. It has other things that it does very well. It just saved my butt yesterday, by being the only system in the house with an old enough Python install that Blender's Python console would play nice with it, which I'm trying to use to cross-port meshes between Blender and POVray. Mandriva comes with an awesome game package, which the kids love.
There is no Linux distro in the world, without both flaws and perfections.
My Slackware box (my personal workstation) is not online either, but it comes out of the box with support for *everything*, from X-library C++ and SDL libraries to Tcl/tk Wish, Clisp, full Python and Perl, etc. Slackware is aimed more at the hacker/developer. Mandriva is aimed more at the casual user, I think is the way to put it.
All I said was it's an "irritation", not a full-blown flaw. There's a difference between that and condemning an OS as worthless.
Yep ! I'm with you. Spot on. Linux is Linux and Windows is Windows. Run what you want and be happy - but leave the other guy in peace.
How many beans make five, anyhow ?
Ubuntu has worked out of the box for me, but getting WINE to work is being a major pain in the ass...
I fully agree, which is why Joe user should get his machine preinstalled.
When that same Joe User reinstalls Windows, the result is often quite messy as well (with a number of risky services enabled by default, useful tools forgotten, etc.)
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
That happens with every single distro in the world. You're never going to include every library used by every program. Singling out this particularly obvious "point" as some sort of Mandrake flaw is ridiculous and dishonest.
I've gotten this reaction from Mandrivites before. Don't google-eye at me in shock and act like you've never heard of a failed compile before.
Well then don't disenguously refer to some encounter you had with missing libraries as "complete lack of compiler/C library support", that's simply an outright lie. Mandrake includes a several compilers and a wide variety of libraries "out of the box" on the CD/DVDs if you would simply choose to install them.
Anyway, I'm not knocking Mandriva at all.
Of course not, making inflammatory untrue statements isn't a "knock" at all. And of course you followed it up with a backhanded at best "compliment" about the Python install being "old enough". There is no Linux distro in the world, without both flaws and perfections.
Indeed not, Captain Obvious, but picking a flaw that every distro has and naming it as a singular fault of one in particular just looks like you have an ax to grind.
Actually I'm correct. I remembered this way back then and I Googled it and found this article from Geek.com:
1 201003115.htm
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2000nov/gee2000
Here's a snippett from the 2000 article:
Dell has been offering Red Hat Linux preinstalled on some of its computers for a while, including the PowerEdge and PowerApp servers, Precision, OptiPlex, and Dimension desktops, and Latitude and Inspiron notebooks.
One part of his multipart answer was pulling out his Ferrari laptop running Solaris 10 and saying 80% (? - this is from memory) of the Solaris kernel engineers have Ferrari-model 64-bit laptops, running Solaris 10 of course.
The idea being: if it's your workday laptop, you support it.
I know the connection with Linux here is somewhat tenuous but having another good Unix on these laptops, especially an opensourced Unix, bodes well for future Linux laptop support.